Welcome back to the Christianity and Business Podcast, an initiative of the RTW Dunham College of Business at Houston Christian University. I'm your host, Darren Shear, and this is a show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. On today's episode, we're joined by Ann Biler. Auntie Ann Bailer is known as the founder of Anti Anne's, the world's largest pretzel franchise, which I know everyone has already heard of. It's in how many countries now, Ann?
SPEAKER_01Probably around 25. I don't know the exact number, but uh, we have sold the company, so I think it's right around 25.
SPEAKER_00And today she's a speaker, author, and leader. Her entrepreneurial insights and personal story have been featured on many television shows, including Secret Millionaire, The Oprah Winfrey Show, and Good Morning America. And has also been highlighted in numerous publications such as Fortune Inc. Fortune Inc. Guideposts and Entrepreneur Magazines. And she's the author of The Secret Lies Within, Overcome and Lead, and her newest, a cookbook, which you're all going to want to get, which is called Come to the Table. And she regularly speaks at conferences around the U.S. And I've really been looking forward to this conversation. Thanks for joining us on the Christianity and Business Podcast today.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you, Darren, for having me. I'm uh thrilled to be a part of your show.
SPEAKER_00I'm so curious. Being Auntie Ann, what is your favorite go-to snack at Auntie Ann's?
SPEAKER_01Oh, at Auntie Anne's, I'm glad you said that because I would like what I tell you. Auntie Ann's is my favorite snack. Um yeah, it just depends on what I'm really uh Josen for. You know what I mean? Is it a is it a salted pretzel or is it a sweet one? So uh I enjoy the salted pretzel with uh with a honey mustard, or the my sweet uh pretzel is the almond with the caramel dip. So there you go.
SPEAKER_00Oh, delicious. And I have to say, growing up in the 90s, I remember one of one of my favorite memories with my mom is she would take us back to school shopping at the mall. And I didn't care much about the clothes, but I knew that I was gonna get a Auntie Ann's cinnamon sugar pretzel. And I just look forward to that every year. Of course, I got to have them anytime we'd go to the mall too. But for some reason, back to school shopping is has already always been associated in my mind with a cinnamon sugar Auntie Ann's pretzel.
SPEAKER_01I love those stories. Yeah, back in the early 90s, that's when we were getting started. 88 is when we started the company. And so our very first mall location was in 19, um, actually the end of 1989, December of 89, but we really launched out into the mall world uh in the 90s, early 90s, 91, 92, 93. So you must have been uh just a little kid at that point. I it's hard for me to imagine um that we yeah, it's kind of the late, it's kind of the late 90s.
SPEAKER_00Um, you know, actually I worked at the Great American Cookie Company right across the way I should have gone to work for Yo. Yes, you should have. I've got some I've got some stories from that experience, but hindsight is always 2020. So that's all right. Indeed. One of the things I've been really fascinated uh with about you is that you grew up Amish Mennonite. How did that impact the way you approach business?
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, um our our child or our growing up, our parents are truly our role models and they're the ones that teach us uh it's not so much what they say, but it's uh what they do, right? And so no matter what culture you come from, you're very impacted by that culture, uh, your family of origin. And uh so the Amish culture is a very uh strong, um, a very strong culture. And I'm grateful today that I'm no longer. Some people ask me if I'm still Amish, and I have to ask them, do I look Amish? And uh they always look at me kind of puzzled, like, no, and I'm like, well, there's your answer. I am not Amish. Um, but culturally, I'm grateful uh for the for the upbringing because I feel like it gave me a very strong, it gave me a strong sense of God, of family, uh faith. And uh I truly believe that my parents gave me everything I needed. I could almost I feel the emotion of that right now. They gave me everything I needed to weather the storms of life and to get through life successfully. You know, we had dinner uh uh sat around the table three times a day, every single day. Winter, summer, spring, fall, it didn't matter. Uh, family does that. That's what we did. And uh so it's around the table is is one of the reasons why I did the cookbook, is because that's really where I got to know my family. Uh, around the table, three times a day without Bill, you could there were no excuses. Like we didn't start eating until every all 10 of us sat at the table. There were eight of us kids. And um, so I feel like that foundation, Darren. Even though we never talked about the word, we never talked about career around the table. Uh in the Amish culture, you go through eighth grade, um, and then you quit school. I'm not a high school dropout, but it's part of the culture. And even today, the Amish people still go through eighth grade or until you turn 14. And uh then you um go to work on the farm or find a job to help the family, and that's what I did. I have no regrets. Uh I couldn't wait to help my mom and dad. I love my parents. There were three things that I just uh was confident of in my as a kid. I I love God, I love my parents, and I wanted to please God and my parents. And uh so when I was able to, you know, work on a farm or get an outside job and give mom and dad my paycheck. Well, that was uh gave me great joy. I know it sounds almost um, hmm, I'm not sure what that sounds like to the listeners, but it it really gave me the a really strong sense of family and that we're here to help each other be family and to help in time of need. And let me tell you, when there was eight kids in the family, there was always a time of need. So my parents, I feel like, gave me everything I needed um to get through life. I'm here today and I've experienced more life than I ever imagined.
SPEAKER_00And they would give you a list every Thursday, was it?
SPEAKER_01That's correct. You read my book.
SPEAKER_00And what was on that list?
SPEAKER_01Well, for mom and dad were always on the farm somewhere. My dad was either, you know, on the in in the field, uh out in the barn, or my mom was always in the house or out in the garden, or you know, it was the very traditional uh family life that we experienced back then. And it wasn't just the Amish life, it was kind of a culture, the the farming culture. It's what you do when you're on the farm, whether it's Amish or non-Amish, it didn't matter. But the the farm life was very um um, I want to say hardworking people come from farms. And um, so mom was always around, but but for about two years, my dad needed to make some extra money. So they went to a farmer's market in Philadelphia, which was a two-hour drive from our home. And um, it was that one Thursday night for about two years that my mom would go with my dad to the farmer's market. And when I got home from school, I was would have been probably about 12, maybe 11, 12 years old. My mom would have a list of um things for me to bake and for my dad to take to the farmer's market on Friday morning and Saturday. So I would come home and I knew mom wasn't going to be there. And I could still feel that, even right now, I can still feel the uh almost um abandonment, is what I almost felt like, even though there was all these kids around. But it was my job, mine alone, to go into the basement and bake 60, 70, 80 pies and cakes by myself from scratch. And um the what saved me, what saved me, and what was the reason I was able to do that was because I had learned how to bake as a little girl. I mean, I was still a little girl then, but by that time, by the age of 12, I knew enough about baking. And my dad bought a great big, huge old pizza oven, gas pizza oven, put it in our basement in the farmhouse. And so I was able to bake about 50 or 60 pies almost at once. So it was a matter of, you know, getting them all together and putting them in the oven. And so on a school night, uh that's what I did and went to school the next morning.
SPEAKER_00So you really learned how to do hard things. I sure did. You know, as I've studied the faith and work movement, it seems like a lot of the Christian denominations are sort of just now waking up to this faith and work integration mandate from the Lord. Uh but the but the Mennonites, as I it's I have such tremendous respect for the Mennonite uh in Amish tradition. This has always been part of the culture, faith and faith and work. They just they just go together, right?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And it's called, you know, what I experienced as a kid was perseverance. Some people may call it child abuse. I don't know, but you know, it was nothing, it was what everybody did. And um uh my dad, they my mom and dad would teach us how to do things without really saying a whole lot, you know. But but but they did teach us that that work is fun, it's pleasurable. Like it's fun to have to get out there and work and to enjoy the fruit of your hard labor. And hard labor for us was working the garden. Mom and dad had, my mom had probably a, I don't know, two-acre garden. And then we would have acres and acres of a cash crop, like tomatoes and watermelon or a pumpkin or a potato, whatever. And so working the field is hard work out in the heat of the uh the heat of the day, and uh you come home and you but you feel this satisfaction. And my mom always said, uh, do it with will, do it with might. Things done by half are never done right. So they taught us how to to give it all you got and give it your very best. And I think that's a model that we could actually adopt and bring back if uh you know it's possible.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, and it's it's rooted in the Christian faith. Absolutely. And and you've been through some really just unthinkable tragedies. Um, how have your personal tragedies impacted your approach to life and business?
SPEAKER_01Well, um, you know, I grew up believing and thinking uh nobody really said this to me, but but the message was um life is life is good. God is harsh. Meaning um a family of 10 of us, we never really experienced any any death. We we had some a few little minor accidents on the farm. Um when I was uh 18 years old, my boyfriend at that time, my husband now, his brother was killed um uh tragically, uh was hit by a uh stone truck while he was driving his motorcycle, um, uh was killed. And that was the extent I I of of hardships or struggles in in my life. And um, you know, all of it impacted me, but it it wasn't life-changing for me. But believing that life is good is because life was very good for us on the farm and uh God is harsh meant um that if I keep all of the Ten Commandments, I wanted to life is good as long as I keep all the Ten Commandments and I do everything just right, please mom and dad, please God. Um but um if I if I break the Ten Commandments, or if I'm unkind, or if I'm angry, if I'm mad, or if I'm bad, uh then God may be displeased with me. So life is good, God is harsh. Uh what I know today is that after over seven decades of real life's experiences is the truth that life is hard, um, God is good, and I'm not confused about that anymore. So as Jonas and I went into our marriage, we were both young. I was 19, he was 21. And uh it's a very difficult, uh, even to this day, many Amish um people get married very young, but uh we're taught uh role modeled how to how to be family. So it's what we did. We were in love and we loved each other, loved God. We wanted to have our own family, and uh within a couple of years we had our first daughter. And uh so we were married about seven years. We had two girls, and life was good. We were in a vibrant uh church at that time. We were youth pastors, and um, life was as good as I thought it was ever going to be. And um, so uh we were really not prepared for uh tragedy or or trauma of any kind. And um, our daughter, our 19-month-old daughter, um again, we're just uh loving our family life, and Jones and I just very connected in every way, spiritually, physically. Just it was a great, great time for us, very happy marriage. And uh, but on a Monday morning, our uh 19-month-old daughter uh was uh walking to my mom's house, which we both lived on a very small farm and lived very close to each other. And my sister worked for my father, and she was loading and unloading sand with a uh front-end loader. And uh she always uh looked for Angie, it was our daughter, and uh would look for her, make sure she um was safe there. And very often she would get off of the tractor and pull Angie up and they would go for a ride together. And that particular morning she did not see Angie as she looked to see where she was. But when she went to pull the uh tractor uh front, she saw Angie's body in front of the tractor, and she had accidentally uh drove over her and she was killed instantly. Uh, life is good, God is harsh. I was a good girl. Um uh I I went as into uh spiritual confusion and emotional pain that I had um no way of uh uh knowing what to do with it except to pretend that I'm okay. And over time that really got me in big trouble.
SPEAKER_00So where did you where did you turn uh in in the midst of that tragedy?
SPEAKER_01Um Jonas and I really um as as close as we were, we became uh very disconnected because we didn't know what to say, how do you talk about grief? How do you put words to your feelings? Like the vocabulary for uh we we didn't know. So we we went into a very silent mode and we uh began to elevate just existing in our marriage. I loved him and he loved me, and uh the loss and the grief of uh Angela, our youngest baby, um our four-year-old daughter at that time, who missed her baby sister and my sister who uh had uh was driving the tractor. There was just so much uh in that one moment that happened that it's it was really hard to know what to say or how to talk about it or how to live life. And so what I knew to do was you just persevere, um, like I always did, and you just you just push your way through it. And um, after about two or three months of that, um Jonas and I obviously could not talk about how we felt. And um I went to my pastor uh by an invitation from him to come and see him at his office. And um, when I did, I was able to truly unload. I realized, oh, I can talk about this. And it was a great uh release and a relief for me to know that I can talk about it as long as someone would listen to me. And before I left his office, he took advantage of me physically. And um at that time it sounds weird to me now, even as I say this, but I didn't understand abuse of spiritual power. I didn't know anything about sexual abuse. Um, I didn't even back in the day, I didn't even know of anyone who had committed adultery in my neighborhood. I don't know. I was very naive. But again, it was a very different world than what it is today. Um today you can research anything, and I think most everybody knows now about you know, abuse of there are there are many kinds of abuse, but the sexual abuse by uh a spiritual leader, by a pastor or your father are the greatest uh betrayals that anyone can experience. And um, well, that just took me into a much deeper Angie's death took me into deep grief. Uh, but then the abuse uh that took me into great despair, guilt, um, shame. I made a choice. It was not my fault that Angie was killed. It was not my fault that I was abused. I didn't do anything to um to deserve that. But um as I walked out of the office that day, feeling completely I can't even, the broken isn't even the right word, just lost. Uh, because this was a man that we had loved and trusted and believed in, and everybody loved him. Um, but as I left the office that day, I decided, I made a choice. This was my choice, that I would keep this a secret and I would never tell anyone. That's why I can tell it to you today, because I learned it took me a long time, that one secret um kept me in seven years of sexual abuse uh with my pastor. I continued going to church, continued to live a life that um I pretended no one knew, I would never tell. And um it took me to skin and bones uh with a heart that raced constantly, a stomach that was in knots for years. Um I thought that's just the way life is, and I I made my bed, so I'm gonna have to lay in it. I began to feel so guilty and so ashamed that at the age of 36 I truly thought life was over for me. And that was all before all before Auntie Anne's, of course.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but but only about four years before, right?
SPEAKER_01Oh yes, correct. That's right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and so kind of what bring us up to speed there to 1987 and how did you what kind of led to you uh starting the pretzel store?
SPEAKER_01Well, the so 1982, I made a confession, finally, that's a whole story, it's in my book. Um, I made a confession to Jonas because uh God just totally totally compelled me to go tell Jonas what was going on in my life. Excuse me. And so as I did, um uh something began to happen. It's found in James 5, 16. Um, it it's a very short verse, but powerful verse, and it talks about being transparent and open. It says, confess your faults, uh, your sin, your troubles, your struggles, your just whatever it is that bothers you, confess your sins one to another, to each other, and uh pray for one another, and then you'll be healed. And uh when I made that confession to Jonas, which was the hardest thing I'd ever done in my entire life, um, that was the beginning of a very, very just a crack in my wall. I'd been in the dark world for seven years. I knew how to get around in the dark world. Satan gave me all the tools I needed, but to bring my deeds out into the light was very scary for me. And uh, but as I did that, I began to feel the shackles fall off of me and the chains began to break. But let me tell you, there was years of work that we put into counseling and really trying to make our marriage work. But that was the beginning, 1982. Almost five years later, actually, five years later, almost exactly five years later, uh, we found ourselves making soft pretzels. Um, but during those five years, Jonas and I had uh, we began to reconnect and Jonas began to study psychology because he was a little Amish guy that uh him and his dad could fix anything, he could make anything, he could do anything. He had he had that kind of a brain. And when this happened to us, he would say, and Jonas never blamed me. He somehow instinctively, he sort of knew that this was not my fault and never blamed me, not once. But he he was inquisitive and he kept saying to me, How? And and myself as well. Like we kept saying, how could this happen to us? Like we grew up in a strong both of us in strong Christian families, active in our churches, love God, served him. How could this happen to us? How did we get here? And so Jonas then began to study psychology out of Emerged Ministries. Uh they lived in uh organization to this day in Akron, Ohio. And he's um, he studied psychology and became a layman's counselor. And that really was the key to us then beginning to understand. What happened to us and the impact of abuse and the long-term effect that it has on you and the dysfunction uh that that brings into your family. It was just unbelievable. We knew nothing about this, but found ourselves in this crazy, confusing, um, spiritual kind of a like, wow, what happened? And um, so anyway, we got answers through psychology, through the word of God, of course, but understanding human behavior, um, it over time it released us and made us feel like, wow, you know, God is the healer, he really is. He's my redeemer, he really is. No kidding. He he knows how to redeem us from those crazy uh places of pain and anguish and and shame and guilt that we find ourselves in. And I I I would venture to say that most of us don't plan to go there, you know. Um, certainly I didn't plan to go into that world, but I found myself there. So I believe that out of our pain, our purpose was born. And as we begin to find our way back to each other and back to the Lord, I never left God. I know he never left me either. But wow, I didn't like me. I was unlovable, I was unforgivable, I was unchangeable. I believe that with all my heart. But I still kind of believe that God, I sort of believe that God kind of loved me. I think he still loves me. But in those five years, is where we kind of got our lives back on track. And because Jonas wanted to do marriage counseling, he became a layman's counselor, um, he was doing it as a free service to anyone that would come to him. And he found himself being so busy from morning to night for almost five days a week. Um, and so I said to him one day, one, but I think I'll just go to work and I'll find a job. And he's my hero, even to this day, he's still my hero. I just say, like, Jesus and Jonas are my two best buds. They helped me, they saved me. Jesus spiritually saved me, and Jonas saved me relationally. He saved our relationship in our marriage. And I was so uh humbled that we could actually still be married and enjoy life together after all of that. And um, so I wanted to honor him. And I said, I'll just go to work and you can keep doing what you're doing, and I'll go to work and make the dough. How's that? And um, and God took us to a little farmer's market that was selling soft pretzels, and that's where I learned at the age of 40 um how to make pretzels, and then much later, not much later, that then took me into uh the business world of franchising of all things. Uh, I had an eighth-grade education, which I mentioned earlier, Jonas the same. We both grew up in that same culture. Um, there were three things uh we did not have when we started Anti Anne's, and that was uh we did not have formal education. We had no capital. When I say we had no capital, I'm seriously, we had no money in the bank, um, and we had no business plan. So that's that's a that's that sounds like a disaster. But but I love the fact that God can take us. I mean, you read stories in the Bible uh about people, you know, God chose and picked them up out of wherever they were from, and he called them and he chose them, and he gave them something to do, something of value for the kingdom of God. And that's what he did for us. It didn't matter to him, you know, where we came from. He just had a task for us to do. And we we soon figured out that God had a plan, and the plan was for us to have this company. We needed for it to be profitable so that we could be charitable. So we knew early on, almost from day one, that God created Auntie Anne's to give. And number two, he created Auntie Anne's to be light in the world of business. And before long, with the first year we did two stores at a farmer's market, the next year we did about 10 in farmers' markets, except at the very end we did a mall, which was like we thought we had arrived, the blue neon sign, it was amazing. Like we have arrived. Even then, we had no idea uh that God was going to take a simple pretzel uh through the model of franchising around the world. How can that happen? Only got only God. Only God. Great team, we had great employees as time went on, great employees and experts in the field of franchising. A couple of guys that came in, my youngest brother came in, he he was amazing. So people that knew more than I did, I was not intimidated by them, but I wanted to know how to do this. And I loved PISIS, I loved the challenge of it. But the greatest part of Auntie Anne's is the fact that we gave opportunity for many people to have a great job and um, you know, go around with the product that gave people a better quality of life in Indonesia and the Philippines and uh Malaysian and in Thailand and South Korea and all over the world. Um, that gives me greater joy than any amount of money that I could have put in the bank.
SPEAKER_00So, in the in the run, in the operating of the company and cultivating the culture of the company, back in the the 80s, there weren't nearly as many templates and books and you know uh conferences about integrating your faith into your work. What how did you uh what what did you look to as uh as inspiration and guidance for cultivating a company that with a with a Christ-centered culture?
SPEAKER_01Well, I guess um as I actually began to experience uh corporate America, I began to see what I don't want. And what I what I there are great companies out there, like you said, where today there's a lot more information out there about you know uh the faith in the in the marketplace, right? Um but but back in the day I I remember the the the conversations and the challenges of faith in the marketplace. It was a big uh subject, like how do you do this? And almost every interview that that we did was people would ask me that uh ask me that question. How can you integrate faith in the workplace? Because I it was automatic for me. I didn't even I didn't think about how to do that. And my response to that was always, how can you separate God from your work? I I don't know how to do that, so I can't answer that question. I can only say that you know, we we were created to carry God's presence in our bodies, all of us as believers. And that means then so we carry his presence wherever we go, like into the marketplace, or whether you're a sailor mom, or whether you're a school teacher, or whether you're whatever God's called you to do, you take his presence with you. And I never figured out how you can separate, like, do I leave God at home and then pick up my back in the day, we carried up our brief, we we picked up our briefcases, not so much our computers, you know.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_01But it's like I I I I couldn't envision like leaving God at home and then going to work with just my briefcase and uh as a as a Christian in the in the workplace. So I just I just feel like even today, Darren, it's it's it's almost that I don't I don't I don't I don't like to use the word simple, but it's it's not that difficult. Um if you love Jesus and you want to serve him, it's not that difficult. In fact, it's very easy, but I can tell you that, you know, I love the verse where it says be harmless, uh be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove. And what one thing that totally influenced me early on, probably in 19, I'm gonna say 93, maybe three or four years after the company started. I found myself feeling I'm still very involved in the church, traveling around the country, around, we didn't go overseas until 1994. We went to Indonesia, that was our very first international um location halfway around the world. I don't sure why we went there, but we did. And but it was early on that I'm feeling the call. I mean, we always chonos and I both felt very called. Uh, this was got what God called us to do. And uh again, it was to give and be a light in the world of Pissus. And uh, but but it but it got even more real to me as we hired people when they came into our home office and from all over the country, uh, people would uh want to work uh at Anti Anne's. And um I made it my point, I made it a point to connect with our employees by uh going to talk every every Monday morning. I made my rounds, and we got to about 150 employees in the corporate office. It got very difficult for me to do it in a Monday morning. So I found myself just making my rounds with the employees and I got to know them. And I I they knew my story at some point. I was I I was able to be open, honest, and vulnerable and transparent with my life. So they knew my story and they began to open up to me. And I was like blown away by the stories that they would tell me. And I was going back to my office one day, and I just said to the Lord, Lord, do you want me to be an evangelist? I mean, I don't know. I don't know. And he just said, I want you to be salt and light. And let me tell you, Darren, that was a moment for me because I always heard about being a light. We sing the song, it's a lot of mine. Don't put your light under a mushroom, but what does it mean? And I remember saying to the Lord, it stopped me right in my tracks and said, Lord, how how do I do that? How do I be light? And he said, I'll show you. And you know, he did, she he showed me what that meant. What it meant to me was uh light doesn't say a word, it simply shines, makes things visible, and salt doesn't say anything, but it makes things tasty. So I what I came as as time went on, I realized that salt and light is being, and the being part is is the internal life. It's my heart, it's my thoughts, it's my mind. It this is this is where I needed to grow. This is where I needed to, this is what I needed to develop. And I did that through reading business books. And uh I one of my favorite writers back in the day was John Maxwell. I mean, he's still out there, right? And um uh there was a number of books I read all I constantly I was reading books on leadership because I discovered I'm not a manager, I'm a leader, which shocked me. I had no idea that's what God called me to be. But when I realized I was he called me to be a leader, a leader is someone who influences. And I I believe that you influence by the life that you live. And that's where your light, that's what your innermost being, your internal life is what comes out, whether it's it's good or bad. You know, the pressures of life, the pressures of your business will bring that to will bring that to light. Uh whatever is inside of you. So I really felt at that point the Holy Spirit was just telling me to develop the internal part of God and to be, to be an example as a leader in the in the world of business. Again, reading books and watching other people do business. And uh I asked lots of questions. And over time, after a couple of years, I would say probably by year seven, um, I felt like um, wow, I'm I'm a businesswoman and I'm comfortable in my own skin.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It was it was an amazing, uh, amazing journey.
SPEAKER_00That's such a great example uh that you gave about the way that you would do, you would walk around the company and really get to know everybody's story and to share your story with them. Could you share another example of uh of a Christ-centered habit that you really tried to instill in the culture, uh, not only in your personal walk with God, but but in the culture of the company?
SPEAKER_01Well, again, I think that so Christ-centered habits, yeah. Um it goes back to my upbringing. You know, we always prayed before every meal at home in that in Alston. I didn't realize that people didn't do that, right? And uh so in the business at every meeting, whether it was a management team meeting or whether it was an uh all-employee meeting or whether it was an anti-and convention, uh, we always prayed before uh our meals. I would always talk about, I was not a preacher, I knew God was very clear with me. I want you to be light, uh, share your life, your story, live your life in front of people. But I would always talk to uh all employees about the power of light. And this was part of that became our uh our purpose, actually, a statement of purpose. Our management team took that on, and they uh at one of our meetings they said, why don't we take uh the word light and do the acronym since you feel strongly like God has created anti ends to be light, and so they did the acronym, which is L lead by example, I invest in employees, G, give freely, H, honor God, and T, treat all business contacts with respect. And as we did that, we labored over that for a number of meetings till we finally got to the end of that and realized, well, this is this is this is doable, it's strong, it sets the bar pretty high. And for people in the organization who may not have been followers of Christ, I remember one time someone said, that that's that's almost impossible to do. Why do we set the standard so high? I said, Because we're gonna fail. You know, not all of us will always be able to keep that standard, but it's something that we can keep looking to and keep striving uh toward. And so we took the word light, and and through that grid, we all of our decisions at anti-ands were made through the lens of light. Does this, what we're deciding to do, does it does it line up with light? Are we being light with that decision that we're making? So um, so teaching our people the importance of of light, being an example and being people of uh being transparent. And then the giving aspect of anti-anne's um as far as the um principle of giving, it was so exciting because we would uh from from day one at our farmer's market, we gave one tenth of our total income, not the profit, because if we we had no idea what our profit was the first, I don't know, but we always gave 10% of the gross income. And I don't say that like that's a simple principle that God talks about. And uh it's easy to do after you practice it for a while, right?
SPEAKER_00The gross.
SPEAKER_01The gross, yes. Exactly. And no, again, you know, people say, What should I do? You know what? This is the way we we believe. And you know what, we never one time uh had had a bill that was not paid within 10 days. Uh, we never once uh didn't have the money to pay our employees. It was never about for me, it was never about uh a big bank account, but it was about paying our employees well, uh giving perks to the employees, doing all kinds of things for the employees, giving to missions. Giving was my passion. And um, so as time went on, uh it it became a challenge because some of the employees, some of the team leaders, you know, like, you know, uh uh, like we should um do this or that. So I said, well, listen, as long as we can pay our employees well and we have money left in the bank, that's really all that matters. I'm not about building a huge company with a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. And uh so, and that's okay. You know, God blessed us, but um the giving part became um I was passionate about it and still am to this day. But the employees then began to, we would tell those stories about giving. I mean, there's so many stories about giving, and we would always talk about that at our monthly all-employee meetings. And uh this began to just like the employees began to uh see the excitement and the value and the passion of it. And they themselves then created a fund, uh, which was theirs completely their idea uh to be able to build upon. It was called the CARES Committee, and and we put money in there, and then they could decide what to do with that money as far as it was always a community thing. We would uh give uh it would it would accumulate through during the year at the end of the year, then they would decide what to do with that money. Uh the CARES committee was able to create millions of dollars uh because of of the biblical principle of give and it shall be given to you. That that was that's just a couple of things that we did that just and also the encouragement of being real in the workplace. Um I have a lot of stories about that too, but you know, being transparent because that's that's where that's how we connect to one another, is to be open, honest, and transparent. Otherwise, I don't really know who you are, right? Um living a life of pretentious, being being pretentious and you know, trying to doing the little white lies and telling the little things that are not quite, uh, I don't know, you know, if you tell me that you're gonna mail something to the franchisee tomorrow morning, uh, then I expect you to do that. Be people of our word, just small things that really make a difference. And and the business people around you and your employees, let me tell you, they notice. And you do it. The Bible says, do your good works so that people may see your good works and glorify your father in heaven. So, what are your good works? I mean, don't put them under a bushel, but you don't have to taunt, you don't have to like flaunt them, it's just part of who you are.
SPEAKER_00It's beautiful. And can you tell us a story of a time when you saw God's hand at work in your company?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I can't, yes.
SPEAKER_00Um I'm sure you could tell many.
SPEAKER_01Um so so I think one story that comes to my mind right now is is of being people of integrity. That's kind of a buzzword. It was really a big fat buzzword back in the day. Integrity. What does it mean? Like we we broke it down, it simply means doing the right thing every time. Well, then people would say, Yeah, but you can't do it every time. Well, okay, if you fail, then you admit it and you start again. Like you, so integrity is doing the right thing. And I remember a time we were um so so we were departmentalizing and we had a franchise department, we had a um uh we had a uh marketing department, we had a training department, so we had all these departments and the management team, all of the department heads would come together uh once a month, I believe it was, and they would talk about the issues and and let each other know what's going on in their departments. And uh one of our policies was uh that you can only have one store. And then if you do one store well, you can do the second store. We'll let you have two stores, but but we need to know what kind of a franchisee you will be for the company. It needs to be a good fit for you and for us, and so that was our policy. And at some point, uh it the company had grown so much, and it was probably 1994, maybe 95, I'm not sure what year, but about seven years into the company, and and I was traveling quite a bit and I didn't always get all the information. And and I uh one meeting, I found out that there was a franchisee that signed up for a particular citywide uh territory agreement. Well, now I was beginning to understand franchising, and there was territory agreements are sold for uh big money. Like, wow, you can sell one franchisee, a whole territory, and they can put, I don't know, 10 or 15 stores in that area, and that's not what we were about. So I came back from a meeting or from a trip, and I found out that we had signed somebody up to do a territory agreement. And I mean, I said, why? And I knew this man was, we were engaged in conversation and I understood who he was and what he wanted to do, but we were gonna, I thought we were gonna stick to it right. So anyway, they had signed an agreement with this man in a city where we had where a franchisee from Pennsylvania moved all the way to Illinois, and they had left everything here to do one store. And I had given them the promise if you do one store really well, then we will give you the best store in the city uh if you do very well. And they had passed the test in fine colors, like they were going to get that one big store, a big mall in the area. And this French IT that came in was from that area, and he was very wealthy, and he knew everything about the malls because he had other businesses in the malls in that city. And because of that, we felt like he could influence or he could be. Know grow anti-ands faster because he could get into a number of malls without us even trying. And that's why they gave him that. So when I found it out, I said, guys, okay, uh, I gave these people my word. I'm talking about integrity, doing what you say you're gonna do. If you're not sure what you want to do, then don't say it. You know what I'm saying? Think about what you're promising to people, right? And uh said, Well, we promised this location to the existing franchisee. I'm gonna have to go and talk to the new franchisee that made this agreement, and I'm gonna try to talk him out of that one location. He can have the other nine, don't matter to me, but I want that one back. And my management team, they laughed at me. They're like, there's no way. This man will never give that location. Agreement is signed, it's a done deal. I said, that's fine. I'm going, I'm going to have a meeting with it. So I got in the plane by myself and I went and had this almost three-hour long meeting with this particular new franchisee, the one that bought the whole territory. I was still hoping that I could go tell the old franchisees, the existing ones, that you'll get that mall because you're a great franchisee. And so after three hours, he stood up and he said to me, Aunt Ann, I hear what you're saying, but I want you to know I'm not giving up that location. I said, Okay, listen, I understand it's not your problem, it's my problem. We made the mistake. But I just had to talk to you about this because I feel like the right thing for us to do was for me to just talk to you and I'll go back to the existing franchisee and I live. So I went home that night and I was on my knees. I was praying, and I said, Lord, I'm really disappointed because I thought you promised me that this meeting was going to be successful between me and this franchisee. And the next morning I woke up and the phone rang. And uh this um exist the the new franchisee called me and I'm sorry, my VP of franchise called me and said, Aunt Ann, are you sitting down? I said, actually, I'm still in bed. And he said, Um, I want you to know that the franchisee has um drawn up a whole new agreement, and the one store that you want him to give up, he's gonna give it up. He said, I have no idea why. And I asked him, Why are you doing this? And the franchisee said, Because I want to do the right thing. My point is doing the right thing is the hard, it's hard to do, but I believe that God honors as a Christian, business, and we carry God, we take him with us to the workplace. We we we know he's part of our business. He is, he's the reason why we're in business, number one. That's why we're in business, to honor and serve him. And I think that when we do the right thing, uh, you may not, it may not please your team, but you know in your heart, every single time you do the right thing, and there's great satisfaction in that.
SPEAKER_00Wow, what a powerful story. Uh, and how just how you I mean, that's the L in the light, right? Lead by example. Exactly. Right. And that's that's the culture that you set there that not only um was embraced by the employees, but the franchisees and even the hardest of people to get that through to. Um, this, and yet this man comes around because of the power of God in prayer.
SPEAKER_01Amen. And and the thing that that was so striking about that was which I didn't even think about. They, I don't know, I was just doing what I felt like I had to do, right? But but that message went across the franchise, the the community of franchisees. And let me tell you, it spoke volumes to them. Like MTN's is a company of they're going to do the right thing. And it brought them comfort. It made them feel like they truly joined a really good company.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Wow, thank you for sharing that. There's so many other questions that I want to ask you. Um, but I want to be respectful of your time. And I also would like for you to uh just share a bit about your books and how people can connect and and uh hear more from you.
SPEAKER_01Well, well, you know, um I tried to put everything I know into the three or four books. I have a little storybook, it's called Anti and My Story. And then the very first book I wrote is called Twist of Faith, which is our is like a memoir and it's a timeless and it has more details in it than most people may care about. Uh, and then we did the um uh the secret lies within, which is a story, it's it talks about uh how I was able to overcome the trauma and the the of the things that we talked about earlier. Uh it's not a self-help book, but it does give people some insight about what it what it means to be traumatized and uh what abuse is like and how how you can overcome all that. So that was uh secret lies within. And then the overcome and lead uh was a book that I felt like I wanted to write to just help people understand what we did. You know what, what I'm talking to you about today is not complicated. You know, it's really not. And I feel like there's plenty of the book of Proverbs. If you want to know how to start, build, and maintain a really healthy company, read the book of Proverbs every single day. That was my book, that was my go-to book, uh, because the answers are in there. Um there's plenty of other books that people write, which I've done myself, which is great. But uh the book of Proverbs is a great place to go to. But my book, Overcome and Lead, again, it's it's taken the my story, a little bit about my story, personal story, and um how we built the company, the principles that we've talked about here today uh in the overcome and lead book. And so um that's a great book if you're in a if you're stuck, you don't know what to do. As a maybe you're just a startup, maybe you're at a point in your business where you don't know, do I sell, do I, I don't know, just whatever. We find ourselves at different um uh levels as we start and grow a company. And at times you feel stagnant or you really don't know what to do. Anyway, so I share my story in overcome and lead. And and I believe that um overcoming is really the kind of life that we are called to. I I think that I know what it's like to live as a survivor, and uh being a survivor did not uh did not take me into the world of franchising, but it's the overcoming life that gives us the momentum that we need to be kingdom builders, I believe. And so the overcome overcome and lead book um talks about a lot of that. So and then the the uh come to the table. That's that's my uh that was a hard book, hard to uh difficult to to do the cookbook, but um I just wanted to do that because of come to the table. I believe um we need to rethink. Uh come to the table, bring your family to the table. It's hard. I know we're all busy, and but I don't know, at least let's try to come back to the table and have some really good, rich conversation. You know, one of these days we're all gonna come to the table. God has a table prepared for us. Wow, is that amazing or what? It's important. Uh come to the table.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And I'm sure you couldn't legally disclose the secret recipe uh behind the pretzels, but I'm sure there are some delicious recipes in that book.
SPEAKER_01That you were gonna say that. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Don't they all, right?
SPEAKER_01I don't even have a fake pretzel recipe in my cookbook. I just couldn't do it.
SPEAKER_00Well, antiannbyler.com is the website, uh, B-E-I-L-E-R.com. Uh again, the books are Overcome and Lead. The Secret Lies Within. Come to the table, the Come to the Table cookbook. Um Anne, thank you so much for uh being so generous with your time and your wisdom. And um just thank you for the example that you set for us marketplace Christians as we try to serve God um more uh earnestly in the marketplace.
SPEAKER_01You're welcome. And thank you, Darren, for the privilege of uh sharing my story. And I pray that your uh listeners will have gotten one little nugget or something they can take with them to um you know become um just great stewards of what God has entrusted them with. And if we can just look at it, that we're doing as as unto the Lord, then then your path becomes not easier, but more clear.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you'd leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and Business Podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about HLCU's Center for Christianity and Business and sign up to receive free access to all issues of the Christian Business Review Journal by visiting our website at Christianity and Business.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your book.