Welcome back to the Christianity and Business Podcast, an initiative of the RGW Dunham College of Business at Houston Christian University. I'm your host, Darren Shear, and this is the show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. On today's episode, we're joined by Brad Peterson. Brad is an award-winning entrepreneur, angel investor, thought leader, and sought-after business coach. In 2008, he co-founded and scaled Canada's top toy company, Tech for Kids, and subsequently co-founded Pila, the $100 million sustainable phone case startup that created an entirely new category. And in 2021, Brad and the team at Pila successfully launched a record-breaking $9.8 million crowdsourced campaign for the Loamy, which is the world's first smart waste kitchen composter, which is really awesome. Y'all needed to go check it out. And he's the author of the new book, the forthcoming book, which will be releasing November 4th, 2023. Hopefully, pretty close to when this interview is released. And that book is titled Startup Santa, a toy maker's tale of 10 business lessons learned from timeless toys. Brad, welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_00Aaron, uh thank you for that kind introduction. Um, so good to be here, and uh, I'm looking forward to our conversation.
SPEAKER_01Same here. So, when did you first realize God wanted to be involved in your work and business?
SPEAKER_00Such a great question. Um, you know, look, I think I was raised in a Christian home. Uh I was surrounded by parents and family who really truly lived their values. And so that was something that, you know, was not foreign to me in terms of knowing that that I had a creator and that I was uh accountable to uh what I did. But I would also say that I was very independent in my thinking. Um, I didn't want to um just assume that what I was being told was true. I like to challenge the status quo, the doubting Thomas, if you were. Um, and so for me, it it was I was aware of God, but I wasn't really aware of my place. Um, and it was really formative when I went uh on a YWAM outreach back in my late teens. And that was really kind of the first time where um my faith became real in a meaningful way. Um, particularly because, you know, I think Scott Peck uh wrote in his book, um, uh The Road Less Traveled, that there's nothing more damaging or harmful than hand-me-down religion. And I just really didn't want to have a hand-me-down faith. I really wanted to be mine. And when I went on that outreach, there were three things that kind of landed on me. Number one was gratitude for where I was born. I think we just tend to assume, uh, well, in life, I think we assume too much, quite frankly. We never stopped to actually ponder the many blessings and the graces that we've been given. But living in a free country with access to clean water and access to all the privileges that we we get to be in the United States or Canada where I live was something truly remarkable. Um, so that really hit home for me. Uh the second thing that landed on me was um that that my creator had a plan, that there was actually a divine power that intervened. I mean, when you're when you go to and spend time with YWAN, there's a whole bunch of stuff that you don't know is gonna like there's you you you build your plan, but quite frankly, the plan breaks everywhere. And time after time, you see supernatural intervention. You just see, like, wow. So this is what it means to live in faith, you know, that you don't really know exactly how this is gonna turn out. And somehow there were these incredible moments where God stepped in and we we saw things that were just nothing short of miracles. And the third thing, and to me, this has probably been most impactful to this day, was the benefit of understanding it is so much better to um to give than it is to receive. That, you know, you you make a living by what you get, you make a life by what you give. And when you saw that you were leaning into other people's lives, making a dramatic difference in their life. And the soulful reward that came from seeing that, there's nothing you could go purchase uh or acquire that would ever give you that same kind of benefit. And so that for me was very formative. And, you know, I would say early on, I felt sort of guilty that I wasn't called to ministry. I never felt that that was where I was supposed to go. And I think some of us maybe suffer from that in general. Um, I always felt called to business, uh, but I always knew that those three things were going to be carried into my future as I continue to be involved in business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, I know that Lauren Cunningham was really one of the pioneers in what we refer to as the modern faith at work movement, and in something called the Seven Mountains Mandate, and business being one of those that Christians are called to occupy. Um and maybe that wasn't necessarily maybe business wasn't as much emphasized back then when you were in YWAN. Maybe it was more of a, you know, if you're doing ministry, you're you're out here in the third world, you're you know, doing more traditional kind of ministry stuff. But I mean, did they did they really uh kind of help you understand that that entrepreneurship and business was really a platform that God wanted his people to step into?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I I I mean, for me, the the book Every Good Endeavor by Tim Keller um was probably the therapy that I needed. Because I I I and I get this a lot from Christian businessmen who feel a sense of guilt that they're building businesses and they're actually, you know, succeeding at doing that. Um and when you understand that all work is sacred, that all work is building God's kingdom, and that different people have different roles, like God created incredible diversity in this planet. And why would it be different for his people and their calling and how they actually apply their talents, their gifts to ministry and what ministry can look like? I know that I can make greater impact with in the companies that I lead and the teams that are within that, as well as the community we serve, uh than I think I ever would or could um by leading within a church. So I see that it's just that all there is no, you know, sacred work versus not sacred work. It always eternal in impact. And um when I, when I when I got grounded on that, it really gave me even more putzpah to want to lean in to say my work matters, and that quite frankly, Christians and Jesus followers should be some of the most disruptive, uh, innovative people out there because they ultimately know who the creator is and how the story ends. So why shouldn't we lean in harder to any of the opportunities that are out there to really do things that matter for both people on the planet?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I heard you say uh on another interview, you said the followers of Christ ought to be the biggest risk takers. Um, why is that? And what are some of the risks that you've personally taken in business?
SPEAKER_00Well, let me let me step back in my story a little bit because you gave this incredible intro, and I'm I'm sitting there going, wow, okay, I sound larger than life. Um let me just preface by saying that mastery is found on the mountaintop of mistakes. Um I I've uh I heard Dave Ramsey say that he's got a PhD and D UMB from all the dumb things that he did in building a business. And if he's got a PhD, I've got a PhD and fellowship and multiple other degrees beyond that because I've done it all wrong. Um, so the reason I'm launching a book called Startup Santa is that I was a toymaker. I actually would say I'm the real Santa Claus. I live in Canada. Everyone knows North Pole's in Canada, so I'm a toy maker from the north. And for close to 30 years of my life, I made playthings for kids to entertain them. And um I actually was pretty good at business. I started off young as an entrepreneur. I had all kinds of entrepreneurial tendencies that, you know, kind of indirectly led me into the world of toy making. And then once I got there and found felt impassioned about it because ultimately putting smiles on kids' faces is a pretty cool thing to do. Um, I actually grew a company pretty quickly and went from working in my basement in a rural area of Canada to building the largest toy distribution company in Canada. And uh started feeling pretty good about this, did this in my mid-20s. Um, but along the way, um I let that ego uh get to my head, and ego leads to overhead. And I ended up um having my bank call my loans um back in uh the early 2000. And I went from being one of the top companies, fastest growing companies in the country to suddenly a place where I was facing bankruptcy, which actually happened. And in fact, I bankrupted three times. So um that all goes to say that it all happened because I took risks and I took too much risk. I didn't evaluate the risks. I just I got um overzealous at an early age. I probably could have used more mentorship. I probably should have read more. Um, but when you start seeing some success, oftentimes that is success sugarcoats your problems. It's actually difficulties and challenges that really help us find where we should be focusing and where we should be leaning in to actually become better at what we do. And um, so I'm a big believer in risk taking, but it's appropriate risk taking. And what is fundamental to risk taking is courage, which was, you know, one of the original uh virtues that Aristotle called out of the four. And I actually think it's it's the most important. Um, it's it's the definition of courage to me is taking action, taking action without there being certainty. There's uncertainty in terms of the outcome. And it's this bliss point between cowardice on one side where you do nothing, and recklessness, where you do too much and you get out over your skis. And so for a big part of my career, I was defaulting to the reckless side. And uh, but I'm a big believer that as um as believers, again, that we know that we were the original stewards of this garden that God created, that were responsible for its well-being, because it serves us as humanity, his creation, and that we need to be responsible about leaning in to solve those problems. And certainly with my latest ventures, that's exactly what we're doing. We are trying to solve very big problems because we believe that ultimately that this work matters and it will matter to people that we're never going to meet 100 years from now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and you did say that followers of Christ ought to be the biggest risk takers. So what would be an example of a time when you you took a risk that really was not fled of of the Holy Spirit? And then another time when you took a risk that you just know that you know that you know God was calling you to do that. Um what can you can you kind of tell us the tale of two uh risk takings?
SPEAKER_00Tale of two cities, yeah, for sure. Um yeah, on the on the ledger of beholds and bewares, there's way more bewares in my world, uh, at least from my experience. Um, so I've got so many to choose from. Um let's see. Um okay, so I launched a product called Storytime Theater. It was a digital projector uh for kids. And uh we launched it with Disney. Uh really cool product. It connected to your smart device, either a tablet or smartphone. Um it projected images on the wall uh of stories that were, you know, famous Disney stories. And um, you know, I uh we ended up spending millions of dollars in developing this product. And then on top of that, we um we spent over a million dollars in a TV ad campaign to launch it. Now, what was important to this product working was that there would need to be an app that connected your smart device to the projector. Without that, it was rendered useless. And um, at the 11th hour uh just before Christmas, we found out from the App Store that our app had been rejected and that the team was taking off for the holidays and that there was no way that our app was going to be uploaded uh to the app store in time for this product to launch. Um, so you can imagine Christmas morning, all these kids opening up these boxes. And by the way, this is an $80 product, so it wasn't cheap, but they're opening up all these boxes with this very cool toy that doesn't work. It's broken on day one. Um, and as I reflect back on the learnings from that, um there was such incredible hubris towards that uh we we we had another company that we're competing against. And instead of seeing the value of what we're creating, we're focused on who they were and we were trying to outdo them. And that's why we rushed everything to get this product to market. We probably should have taken more time. And uh, and as a result, that product, which should have been, could have been a classic iconic toy to this day that we'd be talking about. That, you know, uh, as an example, my former company uh made Lightbright. And that's a product we can talk about today because it continues to be a legacy product because kids enjoy it to this day around the world. Definitely. But storytime theater did not end up there. Why? Hubris taking risks that were inappropriate in short periods of time that eventually led to that product's demise didn't make it. Now let me flip to the positive side of the ledger. So in my most recent enterprise, which I feel very impassioned about because ultimately we are reimagining how we see waste. We're a waste innovation company. Um, one of the challenges that, well, we started off by making products that were made out of materials that biodegrade and compost. Um, we, you know, we've lived over the last hundred years in this economy of we make something, we take it, we use it, and then we waste it. That's kind of how the world works. And yet God created a circular economy. Like in God's economy, there's no waste. Everything that that that dies or gives off any kind of byproduct becomes fuel for the next next generation, the next crop. The circular economy is how God designed it. So we started making products from these better materials, only to discover the problem that uh there's no infrastructure for handling compostable plastics and uh compostable composites. It's just it doesn't exist. Yes, there are some green bins in certain areas, there are some industrial composters in certain areas, but they primarily focus just on food waste. They don't think about organics as a broad spectrum of other things. And as a result, as we're selling our products, people are reaching out to us saying, hey, I don't have access to a home composting bin, or I don't have access to, you know, a green bin program. Uh, what should I do with my product? And yeah, they could send it to the landfill, and that would be better than a traditional plastic product, but it's still not really the way it should be broken down. Um, and that's a whole other issue. Landfills are very they're terrible in general, but they they also contribute extremely uh negatively to greenhouse gas emissions. But we'll we can talk about that another time. Any event, that led us to this. Well, how do we solve this problem where we give our products this graceful end of life? And uh we started thinking about it and experimenting it. And we put a team uh who took close to three years to just working on that one problem. And it wasn't until we got like a working prototype that literally took all organic waste, inclusive of food waste as well as our products, before we actually took the time to launch it. And we went ahead and then launched on Indegogo. We did a, you know, this is a um Eric Reese talks about build, measure, learn. You know, it's about doing small experiments where you fail fast, fail often, fail cheap, and you just do things in a in an organized manner. We we decided, hey, let's let's see if the world thinks this is as big a problem as we believe it is. Launched on Indiegogo. And if you know anything about crowdfunding campaigns, if you do six figures, that's really amazing. Well, first of all, most fail, but if you do six figures, that's amazing. If you do seven figures, you're a unicorn. So we set a goal to say, let's see if we can hit a million dollars, because we do think this is a big problem. We think the story is going to resonate. We ended up selling close to eight million dollars, and it became the largest clean tech crowdfunding campaign of all time and the largest crowdfunding campaign of 2021. Now, what do I unpack in terms of why that risk paid off? We saw the problem. We went at it without rushing it. We took our time because we felt very impassioned about it, and we built enough time in to get the uh keep sort of momentum moving forward, but not at a not at a pace that um that would potentially break the company or the product. And and we weren't competing against anybody else. We were competing against ourselves. This is a big problem that no one else has yet solved. We said we we want to solve this problem. And those are the right motives to go into that that product development path. And uh as a result, we've unlocked something that is incredibly valuable and important to us, accelerating the clean compostable economy that we believe is is in our all of our near futures.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So it's it's really just being being patient and not rushing things. You you talked about in that first example of of the kids opening up the the toys and not having the app to go along with it, and that hubris was really at the the root of that and just trying to move too fast and and not actually being on time in the in the end anyway. Um but but in this this more recent example, you were you were more patient with it, and you didn't just bring it straight to market, but you you brought it to a crowdfunding platform, um, which I guess probably didn't exist back you know with that original product, which would have been nice uh to be able to kind of kind of test that out. But it's not like it was already a winner anyway, just you know, this is kind of a flaw in the execution there. Um, but um, but that that's really important for us. But I mean, was there fear that well, if we don't move fast enough that somebody else is gonna come in here and and do that and steal our idea? Because there's plenty of um precedent for that happening.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Look, I think I again it comes back to the word courage. So it's not being cowardice, but it's also not being reckless. It's the bliss point of between those two things. So it's the appropriate amount of tension to keep you moving forward. Um, yeah, and I think competitive pressure is good. I I mean, you know, we should have competing interests to solve the world's big problems. Um, there shouldn't be just one, you know, person who's got that all figured out. You know, right now Elon Musk seems to be the guy who seems to be taking having the most courage to lean into really big problems. Um, and I think that there should be more people like him who are believers. Um and so, you know, I I think it's just comes down to competitive. So I have a term. Jim Collins uses a term called productive paranoia. And I think it's it's a really great term because it conjures up the image of like you want to make sure that you're constantly pushing and you're somewhat paranoid. But to me, I hate the word paranoid because it means irrational fear. So I've tried to change that to active uneasiness. So you're actively progressing because you're uneasy about the world. It's shifting. And I think in the current day and age we're in now, it shifts faster than ever before. I mean, the rate of change is, you know, they say relative to the last hundred years is over, you know, 10,000 years of progress that we should be expecting in the next hundred. So it's it's incredible how fast things are accelerating. And um, you know, I think it's about doing just enough to keep you moving forward. But if competitors come along, that's okay. It's a challenge. There's a reason that we we enjoy watching sports. Um and our team doesn't always win, but we we're certainly gonna root for them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So unfortunately, the the idea of saving the environment has been become very politicized, and uh a lot of Christians have kind of ended up on the wrong side of the the issue in a lot of ways. Um, why should Christians be concerned about the health of our planet?
SPEAKER_00Gosh, this is such a great question. Yeah, I mean, as a Canadian, um, you know, I we we we obviously are very clear on the polarization of politics. Um, it makes our news on a regular basis. Um, somebody jokingly said, you must feel like you're you're tenants above a crackhouse because it gets pretty crazy when you hear the things that are happening. You know, Americans are losing the plot that they are Americans. They're not red or blue, they're Americans and they have incredible privilege and freedom that is unique on the planet. And I'm quite aware as a Canadian, we're benefactors of that. So, you know, we I think it's coming to the realization that we're All interconnected, and we all have larger issues that keep us together as a community instead of you know what separates us and creates tribalism. But in terms of coming back to like why I believe as Christians, more most importantly, we should be thinking about this. I go back to our original um calling and our job description from Genesis. So as the story goes, that during six days, God did two things. The first was he took the chaos and he turned it to order. The second is he took that order and he filled it with creation. And then when he did, is he created, and at the end of our day, by the way, he said it was good. So there was never a moment he said, Ah, that's okay. He said it was good. And if God says it was good, then he meant that this was something he was proud of, that there was something that was very unique and novel and meant to be integrated together. And when he created humankind, he actually said, We're creating his image. And we could believe that we look like him, or we could just believe that it makes us more like of what he is. You know, what I think uh if if I if I listen to our original job description, we were called to be the stewards of the planet because he basically said two things. He said, well, three things. He said, multiply, so go ahead and make more humankind. But beyond that, he said, subdue the chaos and fill the earth. Those are the two things that he was already doing. In many ways, it's sort of like God said here, be co-creators with me. Continue the work I started. And I'm giving you this mandate to be the gardeners, the caretakers of this incredible garden called earth. And unfortunately, in our brokenness, we've been incredible takers instead of the caretakers that we're called to be. And, you know, look, when Jesus said that when he prayed, your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven, so much, I've heard so much from the faith community that their belief is that we just have to endure this moment in time to get to being with our creator. And I really think that's a broken worldview. I really believe that the mandate is that we're supposed to do two things. Love God, which means love the creation he also created, which everything he said is good, by the way. So love it and love each other. That's the mandate. And um so I feel incredible passion and conviction that we as believers need to be leaning into the conversation. But what connects us, what unites us? And what unites us is our humanity and our calling to love God and his planet, his creation, and love each other in the process and do things that would actually benefit both.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Love your neighbor as yourself. Uh upon this hang all the law and the prophets, uh, the the scripture says. And I mean, we were we were in urban centers before we ended up out here in Western North Carolina, uh, but we're we're right virtually in the Smoky Mountain National Park. And I've just, as we see, just so much more wildlife out here. I mean, the just the recognition of our environmental stewardship has become so much more evident to me since living out here. Like you, I mean, doing to others as you would have them do unto you. Like you're gonna go out and and just drop trash out in the um or or just frivolously throw away things without even like considering how they might be able to be repurposed. Um, I mean, you were you were talking about how uh 90% of toys end up in a landfill uh within one within the first year. Um, you know, and and you've you're coming up with other solutions. Um what else do you want to say about how we practically what what really our responsibility is in some just just ways that um maybe speak to business leaders and how our businesses can become more more environmentally conscious.
SPEAKER_00Right. I love that you brought up, you know, that you become more aware um just by how you now live. I think COVID actually, that's one of the blessings of COVID, is it forced us all to kind of stop, pause, reflect, and because we're at home, become more aware of our surroundings and this incredible landscape and that it's fascinating. Like it is all, you know, the trees give off oxygen and then breathe in our carbon dioxide. You know, the way the water cycles work, it's all marvelous and fascinating. It's just this incredible complexity that just works seamlessly and it wants to heal itself. Um, and I'll add on to that that your uh loving people includes loving the planet. Why? If I throw that trash out into the ocean or you know, wrapper on the path, or what most people don't realize is that most of their garbage that you know that they throw out ends up going to third third party or sorry, third world countries where they end up just dumping in the ocean, anyways. So there's a whole bunch of brokenness within the way waste management is currently uh handled. But when you're doing that, you're polluting the planet, you're polluting the water, you're breaking the systems that support life. And that life includes your neighbor. So those pieces of plastic that end up in the water end up in their drinking water that affect their health. So it's like, yes, to love your neighbor is to make sure you're loving this planet as well and looking after it and making sure that you're doing um, doing right by the way that we're uh cleaning this up and making sure that it's healthy for generations to come. And um again, it's it's just it's so broken that the narrative has has become that, you know, I'm a I'm a I'm on the blue side. So therefore I'm uh overly socialistic in the way I view things, or I'm on the red side where I can't support environmental issues because that means I'd be going against, you know, the belief systems over there. Uh, we got to get past that and think about the humanity that ignites us and the creator who created all of us, irrespective of the color that you uh subscribe to. And what's fascinating to me is that, you know, why I also think Christians should lean into this is that we're way too passive. I heard Erwin McManus say the atheists act with confidence because they have no accountability. But Christians wait for a sign from God. And oftentimes it's just God gave you the sign, He gave you the tools, He gave you life, He gave you a He gave you talents, and He is expecting that you're supposed to be an incredible steward for those things. You know, my father used to always say, you know, your life is God's gift to you. What you do with it is your gift back to God. Make it matter, make a difference. Use your life force to support a more loving planet, more loving uh interdependence amongst the people who inhabit it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Wow. Well said. Um, Brad, where can people connect with you? And um, you want to tell us a bit about your forthcoming book as well?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, look, uh, so the book is called Startup Santa. Um, it's 10 business lessons learned through timeless toys. So every chapter takes a classic iconic toy that you would know. You'd be familiar with it, you may have even played with it. Um, and play is about problem solving. Um, as kids, we're using play as a way to develop and grow. So I'll I take that toy and what are the lessons it teaches us? I then tell a story from my experience in the world of toy making and then kind of unpack the sort of principles and lessons from it. Um, it's coming out November 4th, so kind of in time for the Christmas season, uh, just as something that I think would be um, you know, particularly for somebody who's in in business, who's a founder, who's in a startup or thinking about starting a startup, I think there's going to be a bunch of uh wisdom from my wounds, primarily, because we we don't tend to learn from success. It tends to be a terrible teacher. We learn from failing. And so I've had a bunch of those. And this book I unpack as many of those lessons as I can to help the next generation to pay it forward. So to learn more about that, you can go to the website startupsantabook.com. And um, if you want to learn more about me, uh, you can go to my website, bradpeterson.com, and uh there you can actually uh sign up for uh free chapter from the book when it's released. So I'm gonna be sending out that to those people who sign up. And uh yeah, for anybody who wants to reach out and talk to me directly, I do uh enjoy having a conversation with people who are aligned in worldviews, or maybe even have questions or may want to debate my worldviews. But you can uh reach out to me, uh Brad, at Full Spectrum Life. That's L-I-F-E, not L-I-G-H-T. So full spectrumlife.com.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Excellent. Brad, thank you for encouraging us to be um better risk takers, uh wiser risk takers, and also to uh do a better job of taking care of the planet that God has entrusted to us uh and and among other um wisdom nuggets that you shared with us today. Thanks for making us better.
SPEAKER_00Appreciate the time, Darren.
SPEAKER_01We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you'd leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and Business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about HCU's Center for Christianity and Business and sign up to receive free access to all issues of the Christian Business Review Journal by visiting our website at Christianityandbusiness.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your business.