Welcome back to the Christianity and Business Podcast, an initiative of the RTW Dunham College of Business at Houston Christian University. I'm your host, Darren Scheer, and this is a show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. On today's episode, we have a dynamic duo, Catherine Gates and Amy Sedrone. Amy is the executive director for Polished Network, an organization that emboldens women in their faith and work. Prior to Polished, Amy was a pastor for women and young adults at a large church in the Dallas Metroplex, which aren't they all large, large churches in the Dallas Metroplex? That's true. She earned her master's degree in Christian leadership from Dallas Theological Seminary and is currently pursuing her doctorate with a focus on organizational leadership from Southern Methodist University. And Catherine Gates is vice president of Business Partnerships for Polished Network. She's the author of The Confidence Cornerstone, a woman's guide to fearless leadership. Catherine is also on the steering committee for the National Faith and Work Association and on the board of quite a few other organizations as well. Amy and Catherine, welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_00Oh, we're so glad to be here. Absolutely, Dan. Thanks for having us.
SPEAKER_02Well, Catherine, let's start with you. When did you first realize God wanted to be involved in your work and business?
SPEAKER_00I love that question. I really was raised with faith. I was raised in the church, but I was really living most of my career from the very beginning, doing my own thing, going in my own direction, thinking I didn't need the church. And so in 2004, roughly, I was at a point where God had gotten my attention. Basically, he pulled the rug out from under me for a while there. And I realized, oh, I need God. I need to do things his way. So I was a place in my faith walk where I wanted to be more intentional about my relationship with the Lord. I was working for a building products distributor at the time. And this one woman, Joy, would give glory to God for every sale. She was very outspoken about her faith. And she would pray with and for her customers. And it just caught my attention and it got me thinking, I wonder if God wants to be in my work. How do how what would that even look like? And so I decided to just start exploring it. I actually got a group of other business, uh, women business leaders together and we started talking about spirituality and work and what it would look like to really include our faith in our work. And then fast forward in 2009, after I moved to Arkansas, I met David Roth, who's the CEO of Work Matters. Um, just blown away at the time that there was an organization that helped people do that. And the rest is history. I just got really involved and have really enjoyed recognizing and teaching others how to live out their faith at work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, in a lot of ways, the Joy's example, it it was, it helped to disciple you. And that's the thing that you know we constantly emphasize on this podcast is if discipleship is going to happen, it's by and large going to happen in the workplace, or it's not going to happen at all, because that's where we spend the majority of our waking hours. Um thank God for joy, and thank God for you know the joys in all of our all of our lives. And that's right, somebody might be thinking, Oh, you know, there's no, I don't have a joy in my workplace. I I bet you do. Um, I bet you know, they might it might not look exactly like what you described, but you know, it's like when Paul came into Corinth and he's like, you know, the everybody's just so wicked and nobody wants to serve God. And Jesus speaks to him in the red letters and says, Don't be afraid, for I had many in this city. And that was a recognition I had to come to. And when I was in the Air Force, I was like, Oh, I don't see where's all the Christians, where's people that really want to, you know, serve God? And once I had that revelation, um, the Lord just started to bring so many and open my eyes up to so many other believers in the workplace. I love that. How about you, Amy? Oh, yeah, go ahead, Catherine.
SPEAKER_00I just want to say, and that's why whenever I have people in a class or I'm ministering to somebody, always let them know don't underestimate the small things that you might do to demonstrate your faith and the influence it might have on other people.
SPEAKER_02That's right. Absolutely. How about you, Amy? What's when did you first realize God wanted to be involved in your work in the marketplace?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love that question too, Darren. Thanks for asking. You know, uh, Catherine mentioned she grew up in a Christian home. I did not grow up with any real faith until I met my husband, and that's how I really became a follower of Jesus. And I remember my very first job after getting married, after becoming a believer, was in the medical field. And um, I was working at a doctor's office at a cardiology office in the front office, just getting my feet wet in the work world, you know. And I had this, as a new believer, this concept that your faith life was on one side and your work life was on the other. We now call that the sacred secular divide, right? But I didn't have really have a concept for bringing God into my work. And I'll remember what happened where I began to put these two worlds together. And it was a cardiology practice, and as you can imagine, um, an emergency happened right there in our waiting room, and a guy had a heart attack. And I remember, you know, loading the they he was loaded up on a gurney. I remember one of the cardiologists jumping on top of the gurney and doing compressions on his chest, and I just had to stop and pray. You know, like that was like I had to pray. And all of a sudden, like this these worlds collided. And I started to understand the practicality of prayer in my workplace. It wasn't just like this, oh, I'm talking to God, I is a thing we should or ought to do as a believer, but it was really at that moment the only thing that I could do. I wasn't a nurse, I wasn't a physician. That was my only recourse right there in my workplace. And I think God began to show me this uh connection of prayer in my business life, prayer in my work life, and and how that actually is one of those things that bridges that sacred secular divide, you know? So that's kind of where it started for me uh way back in the day. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02Wow, I love that. And so now, um, as is often the case, you know, when we when we have a revelation like this, we want to share it with other people, right? And you're doing that through the Polished Network. So, what is the the Polished Network?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so you know, Polish started 15 years ago, uh, and it was our co-founders are Kat Armstrong and Stephanie Giddins. And Kat was a young married uh with no kids, entrepreneur. And, you know, when she was at church, there wasn't a lot of dialogue that would support her or even disciple her in her work, nor was there an opportunity for her to have community in her particular church. There was a lot of Bible studies that met during the day, which she couldn't be a part of because she was a working woman. And so she really wanted to form a community where women who are working could talk about their faith. Talk about how they bridge that sacred secular divide, talk about what principles of my faith can empower me in my work life or power me in my work life, you know, give me the power that I need in my work life. So that's where it started. That still is our focus today. But we the how uh we do that has changed a little bit over the 15 years. And so what uh one of our core values is providing authentic community for working women together. And we do that through our local chapters for expanding nationally. Uh, we do that through now with our WIM collaboratory, Women in the Marketplace Collaborator uh uh collaboration. We have something called WIM Collaboratories, where these are 12-month peer leadership groups where they go through a curriculum of uh leadership curriculum where they learn how Jesus led. What does the Bible say about leadership? So we have those. Also, um, our conference in October, the Boldly Conference, is an opportunity for working women to gather and hear from really just experts in their fields. Um, and so the the how we do that has changed a little bit, but that's what the Polish Network does. When we say we embolden women in their faith and work, we do that through through the chapters, through actually through Bible studies, the collaboratories, and our big conference as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And and so you merged women in the marketplace. And Catherine, that this is an organization you started, correct?
SPEAKER_00Actually, uh, Women in the Marketplace was started by Kathy Book in 2017. Okay. And she and I had met in 2018. We were doing a little grassroots thing for Christian Women in the Workplace, very much what Amy was talking about Kat experienced. We were hearing in our own pockets here in Northwest Arkansas in Cincinnati. And so it's interesting to see how God has been moving in the different regions and then has brought us all together. And so, yeah, Kathy Book founded it. She started with small group studies to encourage women who were experiencing the same thing. How do I find other Christian working women who can understand what I'm dealing with? I'm trying to be a whole person. I want to bring my faith into my work. I don't know how to do it. And so they started exploring that together. Um, and then um both of us were feeling like we needed to reach more women nationally. And that's when I joined Women in the Marketplace in 2021. And Darren, as God would have it, in that at that same month, that's when I met Joy Dahl, who was then the executive director of the Polished Network, as they were getting ready to launch their very first World League conference. And so I have had the opportunity to work alongside the Polished Network since the this whole time.
SPEAKER_02Okay, that's awesome. And and so collaboration is gonna be it's kind of a theme of our conversation here today because it's it's really rare and special that, you know, especially among Christian organizations, to to merge, you know, and and you would you would think there would be more of this kind of collaboration going on, but um, but there's just there's just really not. What are what is this collaboration made possible?
SPEAKER_00It's really made possible two small teams coming together to be able to accomplish so much more. You know, what happens is a lot of these small marketplace ministries, we have a huge mission. We want to reach a lot of people and we want to reach people across the country. But with small teams, it's really hard to get all the work done. You know, as executive director for women in the marketplace, I was wearing a lot of hats. So I was pretty spread thin. And so having come together with Polished, I can put more of a focus on some of the leadership development that we've been talking about, providing workshops for companies that really want to pour into the women on their teams, especially those maybe with Christian employee resource groups and women's affinity groups. And then as Amy mentioned, we're launching these leadership peer groups that have been traditionally available to C-level executives. And now we're making them accessible to women, regardless of their level of leadership, who want to grow in their leadership based on their faith and have those opportunities to work through business challenges and goals, gaining a diverse perspective from other women with very diverse backgrounds. And so I get to put a little bit more focus on that area and um and take advantage of the great marketing that Polished has and the awesome technology skills that that our operations manager Robin has and know that that's all taken care of. So we're just able to reach. And now also, as I mentioned, you know, Cincinnati, Dallas, and Northwest Arkansas, even though all of us have reached women in other parts of the country, we're we're so much better able to reach a wider range of women because we've got those areas of influence, those hubs, if you will.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So somebody's listening to this, and they're they're thinking, you know, I I know I need to be collaborating more, but there's something is really holding me back from doing that. Maybe, first of all, what are some of the signs that I need to collaborate more with other marketplace Christians in particular? Not just collaborating with people in general, but um with other Christians in particular.
SPEAKER_01I love that question. And I it's such a good question because I think right now, as people are listening into this podcast, and the Holy Spirit might be tapping them on the shoulder and say, listen up, you have been thinking about this, listen up, you know, because you know, he calls us to oneness. I mean, over and over and over again. He talks about the oneness of the body of Christ, unity in the body of Christ. And that's not just for the individual, it's also for organizations that are kingdom focused. Like, how can we have oneness? It may not look like a formal merger like what we're doing, but it certainly looks like collaboration. Uh, we're just stronger together. We can reach more people together, we can make a bigger impact together. But it's hard and it's messy, right? We have agendas. Um, some of us come with this little competition gene, right? I mean, if you play a game with me, I'm gonna want to beat you, right? But that doesn't really work well in uh the body of Christ. And so if if there is somebody saying, gosh, I need to, I need to collaborate and and not compete, um, I need help. One of the things is that we have done as an organization is we we call this our can, can't, or should, shouldn't quadrant. So if you think about a quadrant, four you know, boxes together, and you have should and shouldn't on the side, and you have can and can't on the top, we need to look at that. What can I do and should I do? What should or what should I do that I can do and do those things. But sometimes you look at what should I do but can't do, and why, what's the why for the can't? Is it because you're understaffed? Is it because you're under-resourced, undereducated, you know, under-equipped? What is that? And if it's something the Holy Spirit is saying, you know, and I'm calling you to do this, you should do this as an act of obedience in your work, in your ministry, whatever it is, in your business, but you can't do it because you're under-equipped. Who who is going to equip you? You know, and so that might be the thing that you look at and go, hmm, you know what? I need to reach out. Who's doing those things well? You know, who, and I Catherine, um, she she talks about this a lot actually, where one, you look for areas of alignment with other organizations. Where are you aligned in your ministry? Where are you aligned in your business and your values? That might be an organization to look at or somebody to reach out to. Number two is is there a project that you can do together? Maybe it's not like this formal merger, but for us, the introduction to our collaboration was the Woldley Conference. It was a project that the second year that we did it, Women in the Marketplace came alongside and said, let's co-host it with you. Because I was looking at the going, we should do this, but we can't, because I have no money. Like I don't have the person to manage all the speakers. And women in the marketplace says, We love the mission of it, we'll provide uh sponsorship dollars, and we'll provide Catherine Gates actually to manage speakers. So we got behind a project. And so if somebody's feeling like I need to collaborate, you might say, Can you start with a project and work through that together? And then I talked about prayer, and this is something that Catherine and I both feel extremely passionate about, is that you prayer is part of your strategic planning. Prayer needs to be part of your collaboration process, like before, during, and after that process. And so if it's not a practical solution for you, make it make it be a practical solution for you if you're feeling like God saying, don't do this together, find somebody to link arms with. Catherine, would you add anything to that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, to your point, Amy, you know, one of the things that Kathy and I had talked about is should we do a big event? Well, once we met the Polish Network and I got to see that first Boldy conference, Kathy and I both said, we don't need to reinvent the wheel. They're doing a great job. Let's collaborate with them. You know, so so where is somebody else doing something you're thinking about really well with a with a great track record? And how much more powerful is it when you come together then? You know, we had thought about doing monthly gatherings, lunch gatherings. We were doing what we were calling connect events. Then we see the polished chapters and we're like, oh my gosh, they've got training, they've got infrastructure, they've got ways to get co-directors set up for success. We don't need to reinvent that wheel. Let's come alongside. And so we've already started two polished chapters here in Northwest Arkansas, and we're working on one in Cincinnati. And so I think that those are other opportunities. And again, as Amy said, that doesn't mean you have to merge, but boy, let's take advantage of what each each person is doing well and then send people to, like polished would then perhaps send people to our unleashed Bible study or our leadership development workshops, because they don't have anything like that developed. And so those are fantastic opportunities for collaboration.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I just read um an amusing quote that I think is is got a lot of truth to it yesterday. Um, and they said that the three most expensive words in the English language are do it yourself. And so, you know, anyone, I'm sure that are, you know, anyone that's doing home renovations or you know, in that type of business can relate that, you know, you see you come in, the client, they tried to do it themselves, and now it's got to be undone so that it can just get get to where it needs to be, kind of get back to to ground zero. Um, but we would save ourselves a lot of pain and heartache by um by not trying to do everything ourselves. Um are there any scriptures that come to mind as it relates to the biblical call to collaboration?
SPEAKER_01Uh I I just think it just popped into my head as you were talking. I think Habakkuk 2, uh, two and three, it says, write the vision, make it plain on tablets so that he who runs may run with it, or so that he who he who runs may read it. So you think about um there is I think we we sometimes think we're the only ones who've received a per a calling or a purpose or a specific application of that. And what I found is that's not necessarily true. I think God downloads a vision and an idea to multiple people. But I think the way that he does that sometimes is he might give it to Catherine or to you. And then your job is to run, make it plain, run with it so that others can catch on to that vision. Sometimes that's how the vision spreads or an idea spreads. And in that, in that way, if we if we don't think we have the um, you know, the corner market on God's calling on for faith and work for women, we don't. We know other organizations that are doing this so beautifully, but take the Boldly conference for an example. We are inviting other faith and work organizations to come learn about it, come check it out, see if there's something that where boldly can serve you or where you could potentially serve the women who come to Boldly. So we've taken this vision and we're running with it. But I think so that Habakkuk too, let me let me say it correctly because I I think I stumbled over it. Write the vision, make it plain on tablets so he may run who reads it. So I I think that that is a great Bible verse for collaboration and this this idea of man, God has downloaded a message, he's downloaded a purpose or or a project even to me. Who may join in with this?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the other one that um I always and I now I'm gonna I'm not gonna remember the the exact verse reference, but one is I think Romans, I think it's Romans four and another one in First Corinthians where it talks about the fact that we are the body of Christ. Christ, each with our function. And Jesus also prays that we would be one as He is one. We are supposed to operate as the body of Christ, not as dismembered different units, you know, like the hand going off and trying to do its own thing and the foot trying to go off and do its own thing. But we need to work together. That is very, it's very biblical.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. I get a visual of this whenever, as I was telling y'all before, I live in the Blue Ridge Mountains. And when I go out hiking with my sons, I just love the waterfalls. I love the streams and the creeks and the rivers. And it just always hits me virtually every time I go out when I see all of these little streams. One thing that I know about those little streams is that pretty soon they're going to end up in a bigger creek, which is going to end up in a bigger river, which is going to eventually end up in a much larger body of water down the down the line. But I think, you know, often Christians, we just we have a hard time just staying out of our own silos and not really having a vision for where this is all heading and how how my little stream is actually partnering with this other creek down here. And that creek is partnering, you know, and there's so many other um streams that are flowing that are flowing into that. Uh and just, you know, and to your the the name of your organization, polished, I was just thinking about this. Um, you know, the the bigger the body of water, the more the rocks are gonna get polished, right? Because those little tiny streams, I mean, they'll they'll polish, polish some little pebbles, but in order for, I mean, really significant kingdom impact to be made, it's gonna have to be made in a much larger confluence of those of those streams. And I think that's the way the Lord designed it, because his calling is to not just make disciples of individuals, but make disciples of entire nations, you know, or polish um nations, you know, to use your uh your your brand there. But I mean, if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, says that in in First John. So I think if we're out of fellowship and just trying to do things on our own, I mean, we might not be in the light.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I love that. Thank you for mentioning that. I love hearing a man's perspective on the name polished. I I never thought of it that way. It's so good. You know, we were originally polish ministries, so no ed. It's also the same spelling as Polish. So you can imagine we had some, you know, uh some difficulty with that. But the idea for Polish was God's refining work in our life, that this work of sanctification that He does in our lives and in the and even as we are in the workplace. And so you're exactly right. I love that you've taken that a step further. And it just I love that imagery of the water rushing over and polishing the rocks as they go. That's such that's so great. That's me, I'm learning something even today about our own organization. It's beautiful.
SPEAKER_00And actually, when you think about it, Darren, in in Genesis one, you know, you see God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus creating all of creation, creating the universe. And then they say, let us create mankind in our image, in our likeness. God exists in community, he created us to be in community. You know, when he said it's not good for man to be alone, he didn't just mean husband and wife, he meant that we need one another.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Absolutely. I love that. And so what are some of the um the challenges that you face in collaboration that you would want to for any of us who are thinking about taking that step to go talk to that other company about, you know, some sort of a joint venture or talk to um that podcast host about, you know, partnering together in some way? Or what what are some of the challenges you want to make us aware of?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'll I'll share a little bit because as soon as I started working for Work Matters in 2013, uh I almost immediately I realized we needed to collaborate because we had some valuable resources that were, that were ready for national consumption, but we weren't going to reach all those people unless we started working with others in the faith and work area at space in other parts of the country. And what I experienced at times, one of the challenges is sometimes we get very focused on our own goals, on our own mission. And it's we've we're can people can be concerned that they're gonna get distracted if they start talking about collaboration. Um, the other challenge can be when we hold our agendas a little too tightly, when we come in with more of a, well, what can you do for me attitude or perspective, right? So those can be challenges. And then of course, if the values are very different or if there are, if there is too much overlap, you know, if you truly are competing, although I just don't see, you know, I love what one person said, um, competing in the body of Christ is like a body with an autoimmune disease. You know, and and that just sticks with me because even if we do have very similar resources or services, there is so much work to be done. And so um, what I have found to overcome those challenges, as Amy mentioned earlier, is really having alignment of values. You need to come in with your priority being God's kingdom perspective. That has got to be the priority and really looking for those connection points and places where we can link arms together, knowing that when we do, we can do so much more than we would be able to do alone. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's a it's so true. Um, you know, I think a lot of people think collaboration is a great idea, but in practice, they don't want to go there because it is, it can be messy. It is messy at some times, you know, and I I really appreciate what Catherine said as far as you have to relinquish your ways of doing things, you know, and I talk a lot about this, but you know, people don't necessarily love change, right? But it's really not that things are new that they're uh avoiding, it's loss. All change involves loss. You know, think about it a loss of a season, you know, I've just became an empty nester, my my house is empty, I've I've lost the presence of my children in my home. But uh so a collaboration at its heart requires change, requires loss. And you have to be willing to say, all right, Lord, what is it that we're to hold on to? What is it that you have called us to be steadfast in? And then what are those things or practices or you know, even revenue areas that you want us to change and to flex on? And so if we remember that, if we remember from that we we don't need to go into collaboration with a scarcity mindset, but rather that we worship Jehovah Jira, our provider, and that this may be a means of him providing a new way, uh, a new way of doing things, a new perspective, uh, even maybe a broader kingdom perspective. If we can acknowledge, okay, there's going to be loss with this. Um, but when you realize what he's handing you instead, uh it can be it can be it can help with that that challenge. But I think a lot of people don't want to collaborate because A, it's messy and B, it requires change.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And it's uh I think there can be a sense of a loss of identity. You know, we just going back to the creeks and and streams analogy. I've got this picture I took of uh it's called Big Creek, um, pretty close to the Appalachian Trail out here in the in the Smoky Mountain National Park. And it the the it's officially tight name official name is Big Creek, but is it just the Big Creek? Actually, what it is is a uh a aggregation of all of those little tiny streams that flow down from the mountains after it, you know, after it rains, and all of that ends up flowing into what looks like just one organization. And and that, and it's like, oh, well, you know, I wanted it to be called this, or uh and and just sort of getting lost, but ultimately that's our that's our calling, right? Is to just be completely just caught up in the body of Christ and that oneness that you were talking about, Amy, and not getting hung up on our our turf. And you know, and there's there's financial realities of that too, that I think is you know another another issue. Like, what do you want to say about that? Because like I think pastors, for example, um they just they would say, you know, we just want people to be connected, we just want people to be part of a church, whether it's here or there, but there's still financial realities of you know, the keeping the lights on and so forth. Like, how how do you think about that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that is such a good question. And I love that you tied it to identity, you know, because and I just want to um shout out women in the marketplace for a second, because you know, they're they're merging with us not because they were struggling financially, not because they were struggling in ministry. The reason they're merging with us is because they have a kingdom perspective that we are stronger together and they're willing to, in some ways, you know, with our 501c3, you can't have two, you have to have one. So somebody has to give that up, you know, and so they're relinquishing that so they can merge with us. And um, and that's a that's a big deal. That's a really big deal. And so I I love that their organization is choosing an identity in Christ. The church as an organization, its identity is the bride of Christ, right? So we often think of identity as individualistic, but I think you can look at your uh the identity of your organization as being in Christ too, right? Because we have this example here in the church, and I think that can I think we can model that in business and we can model that in our organizations. But um this idea of uh, you know, that there is a financial side to things, that's certainly the case. It's certainly the case, you know, uh when it requires a certain level of of reliance on God to provide, you know, um bringing new people onto our team. Anytime you add a head count, there's there's uh uh uh financial uh cost to that, right? Um if you add on new uh initiatives, there's setup costs, there's all kinds of overhead things that you have to consider. And so sometimes collaboration can be costly. And so I think we need to be prudent. God really brought to mind for me this year the parable of the talent. You know, he's invest he we've he's given us one talent, and what are we gonna do with that? You know, that was prior to Women in the Marketplace. I feel like now he's gonna be five. How do we make this investment work for us? You know, and how do we grow it? How do we invest the much that he's given us? How do we invest that well? And so um I think we have to be prudent, I think we have to be wise, I think we have to seek wise counsel uh and consultation when it comes to the financial part of things, and so that needs to be part of your collaboration plan. Who are you going to talk to? I met with a uh mergers and acquisitions expert prior to the merge, you know, because I wanted to educate myself on what the needs were. Had to tap a few donors on the shoulder and say, This is coming, you know, and then uh Catherine and her team had to chat with their donors and really envision them. You know, so there's there's work on that side of things, but it's all under this umbrella of how are you investing these talents, uh, these this in this money uh or these opportunities for revenue, how are you investing those as well?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Great question, Darren.
SPEAKER_02That's well said. Well, tell us about um the where people can connect and how people can get involved with what you're doing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they can go to Polishnetwork.org. We've got um a bunch of resources, uh, things that we do on occasion. Kat Armstrong, the founder, is actually just launched an uh two new Bible studies that are part of her storyline series. And so she's been leading people through uh one of those studies. So those are things we do on occasion. And of course, there's the Boldly Conference coming up October 20th. That's um, so people can learn more about that at boldlyconference.com. And Darren, we're just so excited about what God's doing through that event. Um, it is one of the very few uh faith and work conferences that is for women by women. And so it is professional development with a faith-forward perspective. People are going to get women are going to get practical, relevant ideas and tips and strategies for their work that are biblically based. And as Amy mentioned earlier, we are, we just couldn't be more thrilled about the experts and amazing leaders that God has brought to the table, like Joe Saxton, Megan Alexander, Cindy Monroe, CEO of 31 Gifts, people like that. So those are certainly a couple of ways. And of course, we are launching these collaboratories, which again, um, you know, is something that has not been available to women at all levels of leadership. You know, a lot of those executive level peer groups are um mostly men. Um, there are very few women oftentimes. And so this really is for women, and so that they can have that opportunity to leverage their ability to grow and advance in their organizations.
SPEAKER_02Beautiful. Anything you want to add to that, Amy?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I think Catherine got it. I was like, yes, oh yes, that too. Polishnetwork.org and boldlyconference.com. Uh, those are two great ways to get a hold of us and find out more.
SPEAKER_02All right. Polishnetwork.org, boldlyconference.com. Everybody go check it out. Uh, Amy and Catherine, thank you so much for the work you're doing to um disciple women in the marketplace. And uh thank you for sharing with our audience today.
SPEAKER_00It has been a blessing, Darren. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01Our pleasure.
SPEAKER_02We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you'd leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and Business Podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about HCU's Center for Christianity and Business and sign up to receive free access to all issues of the Christian Business Review Journal by visiting our website at Christianityandbusiness.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your business.