Welcome back to the Christianity and Business Podcast, an initiative of the RCW Dunham College of Business at Houston Christian University. I'm your host, Darren Shear, and this is a show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. On today's episode, we're joined by Alan Barnhart. Alan is the CEO of Barnhart Crane and Rigging, which is in the business of moving heavy stuff. And I'm talking about stuff that's hundreds and thousands of tons, uh, not on 18 wheelers, but in some cases on 150 wheelers. Uh Barnhart Crane and rigging has grown to be one of the largest heavy lift and heavy transport organizations in the United States, with more than 40 locations across the country and a nationwide reputation for solving problems. Uh, mind over matter is uh is what they say. And he and his brother Eric are really living legends, uh, in my view, particularly among Christian business leaders. Uh, Alan and Eric and their families decided to give 100% of their highly successful business to charity to keep wealth from taking over their lives. About 50% of all company earnings are donated immediately to charity. And the remaining 50% is used to grow the business. And in 2007, uh, if that wasn't enough, they gave the entire company to National Christian Foundation, um, which is uh make sure that the money goes to to support a lot of the uh the ministries that are doing really great work for the kingdom around the world. Um, and so he he still runs its daily operations, correct, Alan? Yeah. And uh, but but he and his his brothers they will never see uh the the accrued value or and and kept none of it. Alan, welcome to the Christianity and business podcast. Great to be here, Darren. Thank you. So of all the movements your company has accomplished, uh which one are you most proud of?
SPEAKER_00Oh, you know, I we've done a lot of things. I think um years ago we were part of the emergency response on the I-10 bridge when a hurricane came through and wrecked it down in in Florida. And and to be part of getting that bridge going uh much sooner than they expected, I think was gratifying because it was a huge impact on that community. Um, you know, most of our work is behind plant gates, working at power plants and oil refineries and things like that. And um, well, none of them on their none of them individually are are uh staggering. I think just being part of um supporting the infrastructure of our country, I think is it's uh it's a positive thing to be doing. The lights come on and the and the fuel gets refined because you know we're part of that process. And so it's gratifying to be doing that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, if anyone has actually seen one of those those movements in in transit, uh it would be staggering to us. Um, I'll never forget the first time I saw uh really the only time I can remember seeing uh the the giant uh fin off of one of those those wind power uh uh turbines. And I was like, what on earth is this? Um it I mean, I was like, I know they don't have aircraft this big. Um and then it dawned on me that's that's probably what it was. In fact, it was probably one of your uh one of your folks that was one of your teams that was moving it. Um, but it's uh it's it's amazing work that you're doing. Um when did you first realize God wanted to be involved in your work in the marketplace?
SPEAKER_00You know, when I was when I was getting out of college, I was trying to figure out what to do next in life. And some people were saying, You ought to go to seminary or go on staff with young life, go into full-time Christian ministry, do something significant. And that was sort of the, and uh, and I prayed about that. And I said, God, I want to do whatever you want me to do. And and I came to the conclusion that all of us who are followers of Jesus are in full-time ministry. Some of us draw our paycheck from a charity or a church, or but but a lot of us are working in in the secular business, but we're using our skills and gifts full-time in God's service. And and I felt God had gifted me more in the area of business and engineering than he had in in preaching or counseling. So I've I came to the conclusion that my full-time um ministry was going to be in in the construction business. And and so that was really a decision I've started to make during college years and then um and and then came to work for the family business right out of college and have been doing that ever since. I got a I have a very boring resume. I've worked for the same place for 40 years.
SPEAKER_01So it's uh so and you've done some really radical things for the for the Lord. I mean, where did you where did you learn this? I mean, that I mean, a lot of people even that grew up in uh Christian family, like were your parents Christians?
SPEAKER_00Folks weren't believers when we were growing up. Um, but I guess my source, I I read a really good book. It's called The Bible. And uh it's a bestseller. And uh, but I I read I read through the Bible right after I got out of college, um focusing on business because that's what that's the path I was going on, and about money. And and man, the Bible had so much to say about it. And and I came to the conclusion that business success could be really dangerous. Um, the guy that built the bigger barns, the don't you know it's hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven, all kinds of verses, the verses in First Timothy. If you want to, people who want to get rich fall into a temptation and plunge themselves into ruin and destruction, and all these verses that were really scary for me as a young guy who was wanting to serve the Lord and at the same time uh felt I was moving into business. Um, so we're really thankful that God gave us those verses, those concepts. You know, Jesus warned, I think, 10 times more about money than anything else. And we were just reading those warnings and saying, man, we got to be careful about this. This is a dangerous thing. And and uh so we started thinking, how can we put safeguards in our life so that just in case our business is successful, it doesn't hurt us. And uh, and so that was the the the genesis of our thoughts as to why to structure things the way we did, and we're so thankful that we did at that point. You know, before we started, before my brother and I became partners, we made the decision about ownership. Technically, we still owned half the each owned half the company, but our commitment was that we were stewards, not owners, that God owned it. And uh, and then secondly, the the concept of limiting our lifestyle and not getting caught up in riches and and so to putting a cap on our lifestyle, breaking the connection between our income and our lifestyle um was a huge decision. And we didn't think that much about it at the time. We thought it was uh a safeguard. As it turned out, um, we had no idea what was going to happen with the company and it and it's grown so much. And um, my brother and I have now been partners for uh 37 years. We've never argued about money. And and it um and we just find that so many families really struggle in that area, not not usually because there's not enough money, but because there's too much. And uh um we just feel very thankful that God gave us those safeguards so that we could um uh set ourselves up so that business success wasn't detrimental.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Was there a particular flashpoint moment or experience that really just instilled this conviction that this is what what you guys needed to do with the company? Or was it more of a I certainly it was a progressive thing, but was there like a certain moment or something you just saw in in another business owner, or you know, what or just a particular verse that landed on you a certain way at a certain time?
SPEAKER_00You know, the the chat Luke 12 and 1 Timothy 6 are pretty key chapters that I think are definitely worth reading um with some real warnings in there. Um the uh I'd say the formation of the company and the the conversations around that with our wives, praying together, committing together that this is what we were gonna do, that was those were pivotal moments. And I think if we had not locked that down, if we had decided to let's just see how things go and each year decide what we're gonna do next, I think it would have led to a lot of conflict. I think it was pivotal that we staked things down in advance before we became partners. And uh that was that was very helpful for us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So there's, I mean, so much money that's been given away to ministries. Uh, what are what are some of your your favorite um uh just accomplishments of what the Lord has done through the charitable giving of of the company?
SPEAKER_00You know, it's um I think I like I like the story of the widow's might, and people get really impressed with big numbers and a lot of commas and zeros. And I don't think God's impressed with that, frankly. I mean, we're we're channeling out money that God is providing. You know, we haven't given away a nickel that God hasn't given us. Um the um and and I don't really think we we work hard to not chase the warm and fuzzies, you know, that um, you know, trying to do things that just make us feel good. Um, I think um distributing being a steward of money and distributing it um to the kingdom is uh a complex task. It's hard work. And so it's uh it's been a joy to be part of the lives of brothers and sisters who are working in hard places in the world and they are so much more godly than I am, so much more committed than I am, and and God allows us to be a small part of what they're doing. So meeting some of those people and just getting to know them and hearing their stories and um just kind of being in awe of what they're doing, it's been a real treat. And so I focus mainly on India, and so most of what I've seen lately has been in India. I've traveled to 60 different countries, so I've been up to a lot of places, and we we decided pretty early on that that there was a disproportionate need internationally, and so uh while there's plenty of needs everywhere um in every city, um, and we we do things, we fund work in every city where we have a branch, but uh the the bulk of the money goes to some hard places internationally because we felt that's what God was calling us to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and so most of what we've been talking about is what you do with the the prophets and the giving and so forth. In terms of the actual operations of the company, what's one of your favorite scriptures related to uh business and entrepreneurship that really informs the way you operate?
SPEAKER_00You know, there's a verse in Colossians, Colossians 3, 23 and 24 that says, Whatever you do, do your work heartily as onto the Lord. So to just keep pushing, realizing that you're not you're not on a treadmill. You are you are doing things, you're serving the Lord. And he can, we would say our the purpose of our company is to glorify God. And part of that is through doing constructive work. And so we think um coming up with a good strategy or completing a good project can be glorifying to God just like writing a good song can be or preaching a good sermon. And so uh it's using our skills and gifts in his service. So um, you know, the there's a verse that talks in uh I think it's in James where it talks about planning and how um uh basically it's it's kind of mocking someone for saying, I'm gonna go to this city and I'm gonna do business and make money. And what we should be saying is if God wills, this is what I'm gonna do, as opposed to, you know, it's instead of it being my plan, this is we are stewards operating God's plan. And uh um, so I thought that was a good that's a one that we read as we're starting our planning process often is to say this is let's keep in mind that uh you know, there's a lot of verses in Proverbs and something about this, you know, man comes up with ideas, God got you know, God changes it. God is is God is the main actor. And uh yeah.
SPEAKER_01And you mentioned Colossians 3.23. I mean, really the idea that Jesus uh is on the receiving end of everything that we do in business. And how do you um how how pervasive is that throughout the culture of your company? Because I'm sure not everybody you don't require that you have to be a Christian to work here, but uh how how do you get the sense that this really does define our culture, aside from what you do as the leader?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, we we list our purpose statement as to say the purpose of our company is to glorify God uh through developing people and encouraging them to use their skills and gifts in his service through constructive work, personal witness, ministry funding. So that's our purpose statement. We would say to our employees, we don't expect you to salute that statement. That's that's for your information, that's why we're doing what we're doing. Um, but we don't uh you can believe anything or nothing and work at this company. We don't you don't have to share our theology. You do have to share our culture. And our and the fact that our culture has to be happens to be informed by scripture um doesn't mean that it's a bad, that that it's uh that it's something you have to impose on a non-believer. It it's it's good, you know, it's servant leadership, it's it's fairness, honesty, um, hard work. Those are all elements of our culture. And um, and frankly, there are uh a fair number of Christians that that don't go that don't fit that culture. And there's a fair a whole bunch of non-Christians that do. And so we would say to someone, you don't have to share our theology, but you do need to, you do need to um esteem our culture, you do need to embrace our culture. And the higher you are in the organization from a leadership standpoint, the more you have to uh conform to the culture. And we've had some very successful people that couldn't grasp servant leadership and uh and couldn't stay at our company because of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And uh I was I was reading that you have uh, and you said it's really kind of your secret sauce that you have a decentralized uh management structure and and you use a branch scorecard to evaluate the how you're doing across the the company. And I'm I'm sure it just every every movement has its own set of problems that if you're not really there on the ground uh diving into that, it's you can't just kind of uh make those decisions from from the top. Um how do you uh how do you evaluate the that this really is what is is defining your culture as opposed to this is just what we have in the purpose statement? Like what is there a s a story you could tell or an example where this is evidence that we're really getting it as a company?
SPEAKER_00It's a great question. I mean, there's a lot of individual stories of people loving each other, caring for each other. You know, we have corporate chaplains that that come and meet with all of our people. Um we we send people to marriage conferences and to and have counseling, and we have a benevolent fund and all and a whole we have about 20 different um things that we use that we call Barnhart Cares, where we're caring for our people. Um and and they're caring for each other. Um so it's um I think the culture is it's a blue-collar culture. It is lots of non-believers. We have probably 1,700 employees, and many of them are not followers of Jesus. But I think um we really kind of think about it in terms of making progress. We acquire some, we we've acquired 26 different companies, and each time it takes time to instill that culture, and it's it's you don't flip a switch, you don't you don't read a document and it's there, it takes constant time and some faster than others. So we don't do it perfectly, you know, and it's um it's a process, and we have uh regional directors that are part of their purpose is instilling our culture in each of the branches that they oversee. Um, and that takes time. And uh so um we we spend a lot of time talking about our core values, um, and and trying to instill those in people. Um, we just had our engineering conference, and some of the engineers were not annoyed, but they were like, you know, we just didn't talk about engineering at all. We talked all about core values the whole time. And and uh um, so that's that's a big part of the effort is to try to instill culture. It's it's it's not something that happens quickly. You have to repeat it over and over again. The book, The Advantage, was a good book for us about that. And he says you got to repeat it until you're so tired of it, you just you think it's monotonous, but just you got to continue to uh to speak it and um you know it's it just takes it takes a lot of effort.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. How how do you evaluate that this is that we're we're getting it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we have a uh uh scoring system that we call branch health. Is the branch healthy? Um there are some financial elements to that, but there are um how is the branch leadership team functioning as a team? And we have 10 diagnostic questions to answer that question and they get a score for that. And then and how are they doing on developing their people? And we have 10 diagnostic questions for for that, and how are they doing on developing their market? And we have questions on that. So they're subjective things, but they're um they're questions that get scored and and then that rolls up to a branch health score, and that's what we're focused on. More so you know, more so than just the financial results of the branch, that matters. But um, if they're not healthy, they could have a good year, but they won't have a good decade. And if they're healthy, they can be good permanently. And so we want to really work on branch health. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Alan, um, what's something that you're working on now that you're really excited about and that you really want our listeners to know about?
SPEAKER_00You know, the the thing that's relatively new for us is a thing called the Kingdom Companies Group. Um, as we looked at what we did 15 years ago in putting the stock of our company into a charity, um, which we didn't see as radical at all. We we saw it as just a natural extension of, you know, God owns everything that we have, including this company. Um from a from a whole variety of reasons, there were some great advantages to having that stock owned by a charity, uh, you know, from a state tax issue, from a succession planning issue, from a um even from a every year the tax rate is substantially lower because of that. So we just saw lots of reasons that that a charity holding the stock was had great advantages over um us holding the stock. Um the other companies are seeing that as well. And so we have now five companies that are part of what we call the Kingdom Companies Group, and we're developing this. And because we're now under common ownership, so to speak, God owns each of these companies, um, we are on the same team and we help each other a lot. And so we're um, so I'm meeting with the CEOs of these other five teams, other four teams quite often, and we are um, and we have a board of trustees that are overseeing um, you know, technically, in the uh different trusts own these companies, but the the voting rights of the companies, which is 1% of the stock or voting rights, are held by a voting trust, and we have trustees of that trust so that the thing can go on forever. So this board of trustees will self-replicate. So it's a relatively new thing that I'm working on, and I think it's gonna provide a platform for others who are interested in this. And uh, it'd be a small minority that are, but I think there are some great reasons to do it. Um, one of the good reasons is we we do our we pool our profits together and distribute them to the kingdom together through a process. And so all the companies have have members that are part of this decision making process to where where are we going to send the money? And that's not an easy thing to do. And a lot of people really struggle with how to do that well, and this uh uh provides an answer for. that. And so we we're doing that uh in six different teams. But each of the teams is made up from people of different of different companies and and uh it's been an exciting adventure.
SPEAKER_01So wow that is that is absolutely exciting. So uh that would certainly be and where can people go uh to uh learn more about that yeah I'd say just give me a give me a call or send me an email or whatever.
SPEAKER_00Um it uh it it's we don't have a website yet or it's pretty new and we're just it's been going four or five years now and I think we're just to the point of saying uh we would be open to conversations with others that would have an interest. Um right now all these companies are industrial service companies it's probably not something that would be the right thing for a high tech company or for a um a restaurant or we we just don't know enough to be very much very helpful. I mean one of the things we do is we kind of provide an emergency succession plan for each other. If somebody gets hit by a truck we have people that can step in. In fact all of the companies uh besides Barnhart are run by by people that were employees of a different company and and when there was a CEO change they stepped in and did these did this thing so it's kind of evolved and I think that's one of the things that we offer but yeah so um you know two two thoughts one is there maybe companies that would be interested in joining the kingdom companies group and we would love to talk with them about that. There may be others that would think you know I should do something like that within my sphere my in my to have a kingdom companies group for for uh high tech companies or for manufacturing companies those are companies that we don't know that much about and so I don't know it would be all that helpful but but doing things together like that there's some great advantage to it. And and frankly um having your company owned by a charitable trust has tremendous advantages that most people never think about and and very few disadvantages. I mean it's a the only really disadvantage is you can't take the money back and and consume it personally. I mean you can still get a salary you can still have bonus plans you can still have long-term incentives you can do all kinds of things that are it doesn't tie your hands much at all except that if the company's ever sold, um you can't put that in your pocket. You actually can put it into a another organization and reinvest it and buy other companies if you wanted to it's not it's not that you don't have access to use that money but you don't it it's no longer yours personally and that's that's really the only downside and there's huge upsides that we save millions of dollars every year in taxes and and there's some really huge upsides.
SPEAKER_01Yeah and and so you've got you have six six kids is that right six kids yeah and uh and so how do they how do they feel about that what what is uh what's been their response yeah are the kids pissed off that you gave away their inheritance you know it's it it uh you know it it's really been a non-issue I mean my kids don't feel like they're the victims of this we never felt that the company was ours yeah they never felt like it was theirs you know so it was not it was not like they I'd say um expectation management is huge and our kids never expected um to have a big inheritance they never expected that the company was going to be that we're gonna divide it up six ways for them there was just never a thought of that for them and so um none of our kids are embittered at all by what we did two of our kids work in the company the other four do not um and it's um there's no pressure to work in the company you don't have to come here to kind of get your piece of the action it's not you know there's none of that going on that dynamic um so it's um I think uh many people ask that question and I I really love it when one of the kids is standing there and I'd say why don't you answer the question instead of me and uh well we found is the kids are not um there was not unmet expectations and so there there's not a bitterness at all.
SPEAKER_00And I think lack of communication can lead to some bitterness there. But uh we wanted to leave our kids a rich inheritance of of faith of work ethic of of uh education um you give them the tools to succeed in life but but they don't need the the outcome they don't need the I think we also wanted to give them things like struggle and pain um because those are things that are shaping and and and to try to protect your kids from I hear a lot of people say I don't want my kids to have to go through what I went through. I kind of say why not I mean it was part of what made you who you are it was part of it was that struggle is is part of the good stuff in life and and it's hard but it's hard and good and and doing hard things is not a bad thing. So we want to let our kids go through struggles and and make their own way and have the feel like they have achieved what they've achieved. And so it's um I think our kids are not embittered at all by the fact that we that we gave away the company.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I'm I've just uh been going through back through Josh the book of Joshua and it it's just interesting when the the allotment of the land is given there's an understanding that okay this is my this is my inheritance now I have to go fight for it not have to actually like none of the other tribes you know Judah says hey Simeon you know you're gonna come along with me on this like because the rest of them aren't um and you know we're we'll split it and and all of that but um you know you gotta go you gotta go fight for your inheritance I love that that approach you know and I think that verse in Proverbs gets misunderstood a lot of times about you know a good man leaves an inheritance for his children's children like inheritance is is so much more than money my goodness like I mean how much more um important is it to instill the right value system um and so it's you know Bible says that God's people are a peculiar people and I think we need more peculiar um examples like the example that you've set uh Alan and um and you know that's why I say that you guys are living legends because this is uh um what a testament to the the power of the gospel moving on somebody's heart and um and changing their um their their whole family tree and the legacy uh is is just is just and the example that you set and the motivation like I've heard you talk about this in the past you know just the impact on your employees when they know that they're not working uh just for you know your your grandkids uh great grandkids inheritance like they're they're working and knowing that their impact is gonna make a difference you know over in India I mean right right away you know um and so just thank you for the the example that that you set um anything else you want to want to say before we sign off here um in terms of uh parting wisdom you know I I think the I think the fact that the Bible is so full of warnings about money I'd say I just would encourage people to to read those verses and heed those warnings and and figure out individually every everybody's everybody's so what is going to be different and and God's going to guide different people in different ways from a lifestyle standpoint etc but to to do it on purpose don't do what comes naturally in this area of money um you will you will mess up if you do what comes naturally and if or if you follow the world world system it will not take you to freedom and to where you want to be um God doesn't want your money he wants you he wants all of you and because he wants you he wants you to hold your money with an open hand because there's something about money it says you can't serve God in money.
SPEAKER_00There's something about money that's corrosive and that's you know and um so I'd say to hold everything you have with an open hand and and um not not get into this mentality of I've earned this it's mine but instead everything has come from God belongs to God I'm I'm not even my own I've been bought with a price um and uh and and live your life that way and sometimes that may seem scary to people but it's we're so you know again God doesn't need your money you know he is he is God and he deserves our total obedience but he's also a loving heavenly father that wants to give us good things and a lot of times we don't receive some of those good things you know because we um uh because this whole area of money trips us up and it was a big deal 2000 years ago Jesus talked a heck of a lot about it 2000 years ago it's a bigger deal today just be careful and do it on purpose um so that so that things can be a blessing and not a curse to you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah wow well said Alan thank you for uh your time sharing your wisdom and your um uh gosh the example that you've set and thank you for what you're sharing with God's people and um and with people that don't know the Lord and I just know that that is magnetic for the uh for the Lord and so thanks for what you're doing and appreciate you. Great Darren thank you for allowing me to be on really appreciate it. We hope you've enjoyed this episode and if so we would greatly appreciate it if you'd leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about HCU's Center for Christianity and Business and sign up to receive free access to all issues of the Christian Business Review Journal by visiting our website at Christianityandbusiness.com Thanks for listening and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your business