Welcome back to the Christianity and Business Podcast, an initiative of the RTW Dunham College of Business at Houston Christian University. I'm your host, Darren Sheer, and this is the show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. On this episode, we're joined by Skip Vaccarello. Skip is a partner with OneFlourished Capital, a faith-based venture capital firm investing in technology-based startup companies. He's the author of Finding God in Silicon Valley: Spiritual Journeys in a High Tech World. From 2005 to 2021, Skip led Connect Skill Silicon Valley, a nonprofit organization that offers speaking events featuring high-profile leaders to encourage conversations about faith and life. He has over 40 years of experience in leadership positions in Silicon Valley technology companies, including VisiCorp, the founder, the provider of VisiCalc, which is the first. I mean, that really predates the Excel uh spreadsheet, right? Yep. In addition, he served as president and CEO of Applied Weather Technology, a global company providing software and services to the maritime industry. He earned an AB with honors in economics from Harvard College and an MBA with honors from Boston University School of Management. And I got to sit across the dinner table from Skip in Washington, D.C. a couple of weeks ago at an event called the Great Awakening Movement. And just really was excited about Skip's passion to see the Lord lifted up in Silicon Valley in the marketplace worldwide. So Skip, welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_01Darren, it's a pleasure to be here. I enjoyed, enjoyed meeting you and I enjoyed that conference. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, same here. So how would you describe the spiritual climate of Silicon Valley compared with the rest of the United States?
SPEAKER_01Well, it's interesting. You know, most people think of Silicon Valley as as being, you know, very um uh very, very secular, and to a great extent it is. Uh I have some statistics that I've seen, and I'm not sure how accurate they are, but it might be that some somewhere in the vicinity of on a given Sunday, maybe four to six percent of the people could be found in a church. Um it is it is a fairly secular culture. But I would say this that there are there is a very strong, uh, albeit small, Christian community in Silicon Valley, people that are really trying to make a difference uh for the Lord in that area through the businesses and through the various organizations that they're involved in. So it's uh, you know, there is a strong group of of believers there whose you know intention is to see the see God glorified in in you know in the world. But it is, it is, it is a very secular group. And there, as uh I've said sometimes there is not an advantage to be a Christian in Silicon Valley as there is in other places.
SPEAKER_00Wow, yeah, it's not exactly the the Bible belt. And so you have um written this book uh on finding God in Silicon Valley, and you profile some leaders in their stories of of how they live out their faith there. Can you give us some some examples?
SPEAKER_01Sure. It's a it's a book. Uh let me say maybe the purpose of the book first. The purpose of the book was to um hopefully to have people look at the profiles of some of these leaders in Silicon Valley. And when they see their story, they might be attracted to them because of their success in business or in nonprofit uh organizations. Uh, but to be attracted to them and say, hey, if these people believe this, because they talk mostly about their faith uh in my book, then maybe I should consider faith. So that was really the purpose of the book. And it was very strongly connected with you had mentioned Connect Silicon Valley, which was a nonprofit that that I had helped um start a number of number of years ago. And we featured some of these, some of these speakers at that event. Again, we did it to open up conversations about faith and encourage people to consider Christ. So there are several, you know, I have several stories, I think there are 24 or so that are that are that are in the book. And you asked for some some examples, and maybe the best known example in the book is his name is Pat Gelsinger. Um, you know, Pat is is currently uh CEO of Intel Corporation, and people probably know Intel pretty well. Pat initially grew up in in Pennsylvania, and uh, but you know, but he and he was a very, very strong, you know, very, very bright guy. Uh, you know, went to Silicon Valley at a young age. I think he was the youngest vice president at Intel. Um, and he was the he was the mind behind developing a lot of the microprocessors that accelerated the personal computer industry during the uh the 80s and 90s. Um then he had he had some other stints. He was at a company called VMware for a while as the CEO of VMware. But more recently, and I think it's probably been the last two years, he again took over as as president and CEO of Intel during a very challenging time for the for the organization and the company. So I'd say the other thing that that Pat did is when he came to Silicon Valley, he God had put on his heart to help see Silicon Valley change in some fashion, change for uh is a way to glorify God. So he he really initiated this the uh starting of an organization called Transforming the Bay with Christ, TBC. And TBC's goal um goals were to unify the Christian community. There were some, it's really surprising, but there were some well-known pastors and wonderful churches, even though there are few of them in Silicon Valley, but to unify the Christian community uh and then to uh encourage um the community to perform acts of service uh throughout Silicon Valley and to see more people come to know who Christ is. So TBC is a very active group, still there, and they're they act really as a facilitator of things, trying to connect people, and they do have events and so on, and they're and they're making a difference. So Pat started it, and then now there's an active organization uh that's that's there. So that's Pat's one example I could give you, I could give you others.
SPEAKER_00Wow. I mean, that that seems um very surprising that in a place that is, I guess, known as being so liberal, uh, would uh would be would have a CEO at the highest level of a company like Intel that has started on nonprofit that almost has like a kind of a you know crusader type uh approach to it. I mean, I I would assume that he's come under a lot of fire from that. Am I right or no?
SPEAKER_01Well, he has, uh, but you know, he has um, you know, he seems to have um he's been pretty pretty resilient. He does tell a story. This was earlier in his career, uh, where he was um, and I don't remember exactly the incident, but he was pretty outspoken. But this is why I think he was still, while he was at Intel as a as a vice president, and he was he was criticized uh by uh by one of the by the CEO at the time and and really kind of kind of put aside for a while. So, you know, he sometimes in his talk he talks about being being persecuted, but I mean he's such a dynamic personality and such a bright guy that you know his his career was resurrected. But but yeah, he puts himself out there and he is not shy about talking about his faith, not shy at all. Um we've had him as a speaker at Connect Silicon Valley uh at least once, and he is all out there for Christ. Um so he is, I mean, the leader of Intel, probably one of the biggest technology, most influential technology firms in the world. And he is very outspoken and active about us. He doesn't, he doesn't shy away from talking about it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, he I guess in a way, kind of um puts to rest some to some extent the excuse of, well, I don't think I can, you know, climb the corporate ladder in a place like um Silicon Valley by being an outspoken Christian, I've got to kind of hide it. But I mean, he doesn't sound like one who has hidden his Christian faith. I mean, is that is that often what you find out there in Silicon Valley that people are are are kind of afraid to share their faith?
SPEAKER_01I think there are a lot of people that are afraid to to you know come out and say that they're that they're Christian. There have been, you know, I've heard stories about where people have been um, I use the word persecuted lightly because they're not, they're not physically harmed, but really, you know, set aside because of their Christian faith. So there's a, you know, there are several active groups in all the major technology companies, these, these are faith-at-work groups that uh that have had the opportunity to speak at a number of them. And people, you know, part of the reason they get together is to see there's some camaraderie. You know, there's a group of Christians who are at this company, it could be uh Facebook or um, you know, any number of other companies that Google, um, you know, and they they they do feel you know somewhat um somewhat persecuted and and and you know, uh where there may be some negative comments about about their faith. So so there is there is a tendency for people you know not to be you know very very upfront about about what they believe, but there are examples like as I said, Pat Gelsinger and others who are very, very happy to be upfront about their faith and making a difference. I think some of I would say this, I think one of the ways that you can help overcome any kind of you know concern that that people have is performance. I mean, you do you do a you do a great job of wherever you are, and people will take notice. And they may say, okay, he's a Christian, but wow, what a great leader he is, or whatever else. So um, you know, that that's one of the things that that that certainly can help. And that was certainly the case with uh with Pat Gelsinger.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And and and at the same time, I mean, the the priority there is they're looking for top talent, right? And so, I mean, is they're willing to, I think probably in a lot of cases, I was imagine, willing to overlook if if you are sort of that activist liberal type that's going to kind of try to keep somebody down because of they believe something different than you, but if they've got the the skill set that you need for your uh for your company, I mean, uh you got to have that person, right? And so, I mean, it it sounds like uh just his his work ethic and his uh his talent is uh it just kind of silenced a lot of the critics. Is that right?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think it I think that's absolutely right. Um and so, you know, he doesn't, he doesn't, when he has a platform, like if he's speaking for Intel or so on, he doesn't, you know, necessarily talk about his faith of those, but he doesn't, he doesn't hide it. He's been there have been a number of videos uh shot of him. He's he speaks, he's spoken in many, many groups around around the country. So he doesn't, he doesn't he doesn't hold back talking about. In fact, he is often you know critical of some of his peers. You know, there's a lot of wealth in Silicon Valley, and he is very open challenging some of his his peers about you know giving more money to the to the people in need, to the nonprofits and whatever. And and uh, you know, he's you know, and he gives away a substantial amount of his of his wealth. Um, but yeah, he's he's he's outspoken in that way about challenging other people, billionaires. And he's he's funny, he talks about it sometimes where they give away almost nothing, you know. And and you know, he's so he's you know, some of his peers he he challenges, certainly.
SPEAKER_00Who's another person that you profile in the book?
SPEAKER_01Uh I can talk about another one, Pramode Hawk. Uh Pramode uh is a venture capitalist with uh uh Norwest, I think it's called Norwest Ventures. Um and Pramode was identified as being one of the top uh venture capitalists in the world. Um, and you know, they've been very, very successful. Uh and Pramode has an interesting story too. He had early in his career, he he was from India. Um, he came to faith uh while he was there. And India, of course, is not uh you know uh necessarily a hotbed of Christianity, but he came faith through he came to faith really through apologetics. You know, he came to the he did he's a very bright guy, did a lot of research and and figured out that wow, you know, uh this you know Jesus is who he says he is, you know, he's the son of God. So he he became a believer. And at one point, Ramod had thought about going into the you know full-time ministry. And he so he he he went to, I don't remember the name of the school now, but it was a school in the Midwest. So anyway, he went he went you know to to get his uh MDiv. And uh at one point a professor came and said something like, Well, Ramod, you know, this may not be the career that you should you should take. You know, so you know he felt compelled, but he wasn't you know made up for for full-time ministry, but he wanted to carry his ministry, you know, in business. So he became a venture capitalist, and I say a very, very successful venture capitalist. Again, promote is another one that talks very openly about his faith. And I'll we had him speak, and he's spoken around a number of places around the country. We had him at one of our events at Connect Silicon Valley, and uh the story he told was, I think, uh just just amazing. He told the story, he had a a daughter who was in her 20s, 25 or 24, I don't remember, who had gotten seriously sick uh with with cancer. And he um, you know, he was obviously very concerned. I can't I can't personally imagine uh anything worse than having a a child uh maybe that dies. And she did, she did pass away from uh from this. But Pramod was um, I mean, he was very upfront, you know, talking about that and feeling very confident. I mean, what helped him get through it was that he believed and she was a believer that he that she is now in heaven. It was a very emotional story that he told about that, but you know, absolutely convinced that heaven is real and that's where she is. And that even though he misses her, that gives her, you know, that gives him lots and lots of comfort. So, you know, there were there weren't too many uh dry eyes in the audience when he when he told that story. So again, as a guy, very successful venture capitalist, you know, and um, you know, a committed believer and very, very upfront talking about it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, wow. And so you have a venture capital firm as well that you're a partner and and you're investing in uh, as I understand it, faith-based companies. Is that right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're we're I would say it this way. We're a faith-based venture capital firm.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01And we we invest in what we would describe as entrepreneurs of character who want to run their business the right way. In other words, have the right culture in their business. So I would say um probably 90% of the entrepreneurs we invest, invest in are committed believers, but not necessarily so. Uh we view it if if they want to, if they can run their want to run their business by biblical principles, and we were happy to come alongside them and help them do that. But we also view it as an outreach. You know, if the if the CEO is does not happen to be a committed believer, and of course, we never know what's really in people's hearts anyway. Um, but you know, if they're happy to be associated with us and uh then we're happy to be uh to be invested in their companies. So, you know, as a venture capital firm, we you know, we well, well, you know, we're obviously very interested in in making money for our um for our investors in the firm. Uh, and so we see lots and lots of businesses, which are good businesses, but may not be businesses that are worthy of a venture capital investment. So we look at companies that have maybe a big chance uh chance for big success, but they also could go down in flames. So you end up taking a few risks that way. But the reason that we we started this because we believe that in many ways the culture that we live in in the world but in the US is broken. And and one of the ways that you can you can change that is through business. Now, obviously, there are other ways through education, um, through government, and and so on. But business is one of the ways. And you know, businesses touch many, many people. You have employees, you have vendors, you have customers, you have investors, and so on. So businesses that are run run the right way, and I say the right way is by biblical principles, um, can make a big difference in the world. And also, there's, you know, the other thing that a lot of people don't realize is you know, businesses that are run the right way, and again, by biblical principles, have a better chance of success than those that are not. Uh, it doesn't guarantee success. Uh, there are there are many, many cases, and I could tell you know, a few stories about that, but um, it doesn't guarantee success, but you have a better chance for success in the long run if you're running your business the right way, as I say, by biblical principles. There was, I'll just cite one study. The a few years ago, the Harvard Business Review uh wrote an article, uh, and it was, I think it's KRW was the consulting firm that did it, and they they ended up doing some research of companies and uh of employees and looking at uh the their leaders in those companies and try to measure the character of the leaders. They were they really did it. They asked employees on a few characteristics of character like you know, integrity, compassion, forgiveness, and so on, a whole list of these characters, and they had the employees rate their their leaders, their CEOs. And it turned then then this this consulting group went back and looked at the performance of those companies, and what they found was there was almost a five times greater uh performance of those companies that were run by leaders of character than those companies that were not. Uh so that's one one piece of evidence, you know, and it does make sense. People think are more motivated when they look at their leaders of people of character who want to do the right things, then you know, those companies have a better chance of succeeding. So there's, I think there's lots of consistency. You know, I read lots and lots of um of business books, and um, and you know, the principles that are often espoused are biblical principles. One of my just tell you, one of my um you know favorite authors is um is Pat Lincioni. And you might know Pat has written many, many, many different books. And if you read his books and he is upfront about his faith, uh, you know, is is the principles that he talks about are all biblical principles. Um so anyway, uh, and there are there are many other examples in that way. So anyway, we invest, we try to invest, we look for markets that are potentially big markets, entrepreneurs that we would view as high capacity, uh, people of character who want to run their business the right way. And that's who we invest in, and we're happy to come alongside and help them in any way that we can.
SPEAKER_00What's an example of a company you've invested in and how the Christian faith of the founder or just your Christian faith as the mentors of those founders really had kind of shines through?
SPEAKER_01Well, one company I can mention, it's called um Steeped Coffee. Uh steeped coffee is, you know, it's funny because we typically invest in high-tech companies. Steeped coffee is at the outset, it doesn't look high-tech, but it, but it, but it is in a way. Steeped coffee has um what you might think of as coffee in a teabag. Um, but it's, you know, and it's it's it's really good for it's single, it's a single served coffee solution. And there are others, you know, this curric is a single served coffee solution. But what's interesting about steeped coffee is that uh is that steeped is the the bags, everything is um is compostable and recyclable, you know, not like you have a Curric container that you throw away at you know, whatever it's it's gonna go into the landfill in some way. So they're the products that they have uh are um are you know you know good, good, you know, quality products. And the coffee is terrific. Uh and they've they've so they've they're now growing you know substantially. You can find them in a lot of the big grocery outlets now. I know Whole Foods carries them. Uh we have uh an outlet here, Harris Teeter, uh, will carry them. So they're they're really making lots and lots of inroads, and they also, you know, you can buy it directly from them. And they're organized as a uh as a as a I think it's called a B corporation, where they're giving away you know their money is a is a big deal uh for them, for steep coffee. So uh they're a good and and the technology is is is you know, which I mentioned earlier, they have this way of of getting this technology, um getting their coffee packaged in these in these little containers. So there's a very sophisticated system. So they seem to be doing very well. And uh, you know, they're you know, their their CEO and their founder, they're they're really they're They're running their business and they want to run their business, you know, by biblical principles. We've come alongside and we've offered some, um, we do offer some some mentoring and we've provided a webinar with them. So they're you know, they're really uh um, you know, they're they're and they're very committed uh in their faith. Now, I I can't say that the whole staff is, but you know, certainly the this the CEO is and running the business, you know, the right way is what they're doing. So that's that's one one example.
SPEAKER_00What's what's more evidence that they are running it on biblical principles? And what would be an example of a biblical principle that they are running it on?
SPEAKER_01Well, I would say one of them, I'd say a principle, at least something that I've noticed is they're very, very transparent. Um you know, they uh they don't you know hold back, you know, with if there's good news or bad news, at least from an investor investment point of view. Um they're just very upfront with with how they're doing. Uh and and they're they're really um you know, very uh just just up front with with with with with what they're doing as an organization. And say the other is is that they um you know they're generous, as I mentioned, as a as a you know, they they give away, I don't remember exactly the amount, but you know, this is as a startup company, they didn't have a whole lot of money. They were even at the early stage of the business, they were they were helping support uh some non nonprofit organizations with their with the the amount of money that they were they were taking in.
SPEAKER_00Well, let's keep let's camp out on that transparency aspect of it for a minute. Um, when you say transparent, um you mean from like your investors, you need to know what's going on in the business. Do you find that uh that's not always the case with a lot of founders as they're trying to hide things from the investors? Or what what do you what is it about their transparency that really is evident?
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, I I you know I think a lot of people like to hide, you know, they're very happy to talk when things are going well and not so happy to talk when things are not going well. Um, and and I found that, you know, in the it was always a challenge in the businesses that I that I ran, you know, before I did this, but but they um, you know, in in their presentations, they're very, very happy to talk about, you know, the good and the bad of of all they're doing. They they recently, so we invested uh maybe two years ago, something like that. Um, but they recently raised some money uh through a crowdfunding platform. I think they raised four to five million dollars for crowdfunding. So they have now uh, I would say thousands of people who have invested in this company. And they were happy to tell their story to these thousands and thousands of small, small investors. You know, so they were just again, you know, I mean, I don't know how many a lot of companies, you know, they want to have a few investors, they want to spread the news around to lots and lots of other people, but they're giving these people an opportunity to hopefully make a little bit more money on their investment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, that's that's especially important. Um, you know, with all these crowdfunding, and I've done some of that crowdfunding investing before, and and you want to know what's happening uh with this company right now, because uh there's there's one in particular that's really struggling right now, um, as you know, as they do. But uh that transparency is is a hallmark of of a Christian at the at the helm, I think, in a lot of cases.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think I think it is. And you know, it's one of those, yeah, and uh, you know, there's there's you can't be transparent about absolutely everything. So I mean some companies would, but you don't necessarily post everyone's salary on the on the bulletin board in the company, although there's maybe a trend with that might that I actually might be happening. But I know in the businesses that I ran, I was always felt that I wanted to be transparent, you know, when I would have um, you know, company, you know, meetings and get together talking about this is what we're doing well, this is what we're not doing well, and this is what we have to do. And and it would be often the case where I might tell a biblical story that would relate to it. Now, these are all, you know, I don't think very few people in the company necessarily were were Christian or the companies were Christian. But one of the principles that I felt was important, it was transparency in a little way, and that is that I always wanted to make sure that with salaries, for example, that I could justify it. If the salaries were opposed and everybody knew what everybody else was making in the company, that I could justify it. And people did make different amounts of money, but that there was a logic, people might not agree with it, but I always, you know, whenever we would we would make salary recommendations, there was we felt that there was good reason to do that. And the same, I remember there's one company that I had that we did large contracts, these are OEM contracts. And in these contracts, they're all sorts of different terms. And sometimes we would get companies that would come to us, we were a small group, big companies would come to us and they'd want what's called favored nation status. They wanted a special deal that nobody else got. And we always resisted that, uh, giving favored nations, you know, status to someone. And I always wanted to make sure that if if everybody, if all the companies that uh that were our that we cut deals with as our partners, if they all knew the deal that everybody else got, that it could be easily justified. Somebody got a better price because there might have been more services that they provided or whatever. So that's just a different way of thinking about things, feeling it's a sense of it's it's transparency in a fashion, but it's also integrity, knowing that you know, one of my favorite Bible verses is you know, it's Colossians 3.23. Whatever you do, work hardly as working for the Lord, not for men. And you know, to me, that's that's an important way to to run your business, is that you know, God knows what we're doing. Yeah, you know, and and we wanna, it's as a believer in business, you want to be able to run your business um that way, as if you you clearly we do work for people, but ultimately we're working for God.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. And if people need to get scared straight on on this and and just that lack of transparency. I mean, think about Ananias and Sapphira, you know, getting getting struck down for hiding, for lying about what they had, and you know, and just thinking about the companies out there that you know, they lie to shareholders, they, you know, kind of inflate their revenues and you know, these these kinds of things are you know, hiding money from the IRS. I mean, I don't just because you're not lying, you know, directly to uh to Apostle Peter, you know, and in turn directly to God doesn't mean that you're not this isn't an offense directly toward God. He certainly knows all about it.
SPEAKER_01Um, and so you know, I think that I would and Darren, I would find that in in in in business, probably really in life, not just in business, is there are ethical situations that come up all the time. Uh, and so you could you could choose to do, you know, and sometimes you know it's not clear, sometimes it's a little bit cloudy, you know, what what the decision is, but it's um uh, you know, just thinking that, you know, that as a follower of Christ, God knows what you're doing. He's watching what you're doing, and and to um, you know, to be uh cognizant of that. I can just think of very early in my career. This was actually before I would consider myself a Christian, but I wasn't, I don't think I was a born-again Christian then. But the story, I was I was hired to be um an associate director of a nonprofit or a very nonprofit organization helping handicapped people. Very good organization, very good reputation. And and there was the person running it was a former army colonel, very well respected in the community. So I came in as the second in charge. And when I came in, one of the things I was in charge with was the finances. And I found out that there are all sorts of hidden bank accounts, and they were hidden because if they were raising money, they didn't want to know, they wouldn't people want to know how much money they really had. And so here I was in charge of finances, and I found all this hidden bank accounts. And so what do you do? And you know, it was it was it was I was, yeah, I could have quit, I could have exposed them, I could have just gone on and forget about it. It's a good organization. But anyway, I worked out with the guy that was the executive director, and we, you know, made known at that point, you know, the amount of money that that we had and where it was from, and and and so we we got all that straight and were transparent about it. But I mean that was one, that was one early decision, you know, in my career. But I would say almost every day, people are confronted with these, you know, ethical, I'd say ethical dilemmas. And, you know, what are you going to do about it? But keeping you know cognizant of you know that ultimately we're gonna be accountable to God, that makes a difference with how we make those decisions.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, indeed. Where should people go to hear more about you? Um, certainly skipvaccarello.com. Um, that's V-A-C-C-A-R-E-L-L-O.com. Uh skipvaccarello.com. Everybody go check that out. The book is uh titled Finding God in Silicon Valley Spiritual Journeys in a High Tech World. I know people can get that um at your website or on Amazon. Anything else you want to say about how people can um get involved and and hear more from you?
SPEAKER_01Well, the other thing is they could look at um or the oneflourish capital. It's just oneflourish uh.com. So the one, the number one flourish.com. And you know, if and if people have you were always looking for um good businesses to invest in. So if anyone has any, you know, businesses, they can certainly refer them to us. There are ways, you know, either on my site, skipfaccarello.com or oneflourish you can get in touch with us. So um, yeah, those would be the places to go. And and uh yeah, I just want to encourage you know, all the listeners that sometimes it may be a little bit lonely when we're out there as a believer in business, but uh we can make a difference in the world, can make a big difference um in in the employees that that are in our group and the investors that we have and uh the customers that we have. So it's uh want to encourage everyone to continue to live out your faith and whatever activity you're doing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think what's so encouraging about your book is that it's not just the hypothetical, but it's actually happening. I mean, you got the president, CEO of Intel that is uh just I mean, unapologetic about his faith. Um, I mean, that's that's very inspiring. Um, Skip, thank you for writing this book. Thanks for uh the work you're doing with entrepreneurs and for sharing with our audience today.
SPEAKER_01Sure, infinite pleasure. Thanks so much. Appreciate you having me.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you'd leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about HLTU's Center for Christianity and Business and sign up to receive free access to all issues of the Christian Business Review journal by visiting our website at Christianity and Business.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your books.