Welcome back to the Christianity and Business Podcast, an initiative of the RTW Dunham College of Business at Houston Baptist University. I'm your host, Darren Scheer, and this is the show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. On this episode, we're joined by Bob Schlegel. Bob was raised on a small farm in rural Ontario. Resources were limited, but his loving parents were always quick to share with others in need. Despite at least two near-death experiences as a child, including a broken neck and being mauled by two great Danes, he proved to be a natural-born entrepreneur at a young age. He excelled at mathematics and graduated from Wilfrid Laurier, I assume that's how you pronounce it, pretty good university with a bachelor's in economics, and later became a CPA and married his high school sweetheart and registered nurse, Myrna. And together they launched their first business, a chain of 15 high-end senior living centers in Texas. In 1980, uh, with a partner, you launched Pavestone, the Pavestone Company, a manufacturer of concrete landscape products, which struggled in the late 80s due to a recession but rebounded and became the nation's leading supplier of concrete landscaping products for big box and commercial customers. The Schlegel sold both of those businesses for substantial profits, and today are involved in a myriad of new enterprises and philanthropic endeavors. Their four entrepreneurial children are also involved in some of those businesses as well as their own. And he's the author of the new book, Angels and Entrepreneurs, a lifestyle formula for starting your own business and riding the roller coaster of entrepreneurship. Bob, welcome to the Christianity and business podcast.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Darren. Great to be here.
SPEAKER_02Bob, when did you first realize God wanted to be involved in your work and business?
SPEAKER_01I think uh from the very beginning of a little kid, um, and my wife as well. Actually, my my my mother taught my wife when she was five years old, taught her summer, taught her in summer Bible school in our little Munite church. So, and uh we didn't start dating for another 15 years after that or so, and um and uh we eventually got married and we're actually married 50 years uh this year.
SPEAKER_02So congratulations.
SPEAKER_01Worked out pretty good so far.
SPEAKER_02Wow. And so how did you start to make the see God at work in your in your work and business?
SPEAKER_01You know, I think um I think I've always as a little kid, like you mentioned, I've um was trying to broke my neck when I was five, started my one-room school house with a broken body cast on. Um and then and um then the great Danes attacked me, and uh a little bit after that, um our house actually burned down, and my just my brother and then my sister and I were home by ourselves. Um, and I thought it was gonna be a fireman, tried to put the fire out, and my brother ended dragging me out of the house. So I knew that and then just did different things after that. Um so I think I had it, I've always had a guardian angel, at least I think in my life. And of course, going to going to um Bible school and summer school, and for years, um, you just come acquainted uh pretty much with that. And as I got to Texas, we moved here in uh 80, 85. Um, started going to the actually the Prestonwood Baptist Church was a real good, real nice church in in North Dallas here. Um and the pastor um was um very excellent speaker, and he was his sermons were kind of like um motivational speeches, like hearing um Napoleon Hill or Norman Mr. Peel speak on on sort of the power of positive thinking and that sort of thing, and thought versus action. And and um one of the one of the scriptures that sticks with me um so much is um just the basic one that everybody knows, uh asking it'll be given unto you, seeking you shall find, and knock the door will be opened. I mean, for for me as a kid, um trying to open doors with bankers or sales or whatever you're doing, uh that that scripture is is um, you know, get up, get off your button, get going, and start knocking on doors and and seeking and and asking, you know, and um that motivated me a lot. It was pretty important in my life. And the whole thought versus action, you know, um the Bible quotes in um Proverbs, um, in all to in all tell there's profit, but mere talk tends only to do poverty. So there's um it's that sort of thought and action. People talk about doing a lot of things or think about doing a lot of things, but don't take the action to get them done. So I think um it's those biblical scriptures that I that I always liked and thought about. Um so I think really motivates what motive motivated me to get out and start doing things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And so your book is titled Angels and Entrepreneurs: A Lifestyle Formula for Starting Your Own Business and Writing the Roller Coaster of Entrepreneurship. And um it's really been a roller coaster for you. You've had some kind of kind of dark times, really dark times in business. Can you kind of take us to some of those, or or maybe one of those low points?
SPEAKER_01Sure, a lot of them. I've had a lot of them. I was actually a little talk this morning, and you really make um I make uh I made a lot of mistakes about life and uh probably more more than success, more than your successful events. I've had you know three or four good businesses and a couple of uh several, or at least half a dozen of not so good businesses, you know, half the half the businesses uh started these days failed, don't make it to five to five years. So, and all the businesses that are successful, you know, go up through, go through all kinds of roller coasters and ups and downs. And I didn't really think it was a roller coaster at the time, but when the my editor came up with that roller coaster thing for the book after I've written it, and that you know, it really was a roller coaster. So, but but it's all kinds of uh I think you fail, you need that, you're gonna have a lot of failure. I think the I look at fail as a as an acronym, the FAIL, as a first attempt at a learning, because that's you learn more from your experiences and your and your your trouble times and your your you know bad bad ideas, bad bad investments. You learn a whole lot more from that than you do some of the good ones sometimes because the bad ones you remember, some of the good ones you take for granted and and um and just go on with the next one. But it's um it's a learn the whole thing's a learning process. I'm a big believer in I have a pep, a pep for a PEP acronym that I like to use. First P is for persistence, the next one, the E is for education and experience, and the next P is for passion and partners. And you have to be passionate about what you do and love what you do, and with the with you feel good about religion and and um believing in God, I think gives that motivation, that love for what you're doing, um, and really gets you up in the morning, reason to get up in the morning and really, you know, wake up in the morning, get back to work as fast as you can, kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Can you take this to uh maybe back in the the 80s, or is there a particular story that you could share when you were in a particularly low point on that roller coaster journey and how you responded?
SPEAKER_01Sure. In December of uh 83, I was um my dad was in the head, had a heart attack, was in the hospital and um for about three months before he passed away. And I um just sort of just for about right around Christmas time, I had to make a quick trip to Houston to close in at some real estate healthcare center. And um on the way to the um way to the I stopped to see him at the hospital on the way to the airport. Uh blizzard came up and uh the truck crossed the interstate and kept me head on. And I was unconscious for about a week. And um I just so I think the the angel, your guardian angel is with you during those times. And my dad passed away when I was when I was unconscious. Um, and we just forted, you know, it's very troubling, very terrible time. My wife had a terrible time, and um but it's just one of those things that happens in life, and you know rely on God to get you through it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And uh, how about it specifically in business? Uh a particular low point in business and how you bounce back.
SPEAKER_01Sure. But in um you know, the Great Recession, do you all remember 08, 09, or 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, that whole period was pretty ugly for a lot of businesses. Um, and uh mine was uh no exception at Papestone. We had um a certain uh some some covenants and uh most a lot of big businesses we had the EBITAC coverages and debt service coverages, that sort of thing in business. Um and this is what everybody, not a lot of people, including me, busted all their covenants. And when your covenants uh you break your covenants and the bank and call the loan, and all kinds of nasty things can happen. Um, so during that period, we fought off and uh had we had actually had an offer to sell the company one point, and the Federal Trade Commission ended up after a year of studying the deal, uh blocked in the hard Scott Redino uh competition thing they have. Um, and that's that sort of killed the deal that made it much worse for us because as sales were going down, or as you know, the economy was decreased uh going down and down. Um, our prices were going down and down, and it was just kind of very nasty time to struggle through that. Um, so we um just fight your way through it, and we took some equity partners and and you work your way out of it and do what you have to do at the time, but it's very discouraging, and you need a lot of angels just around you. I have friends, the angels appeared from friends that were I knew um financial experts and that sort of thing would come and sit in my office for weeks sometime just helping me through you know troubled times and negotiate, negotiating and getting trying to work things out into a better deal.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Can you tell me more about so the book is angels and entrepreneurs? And I hear you talking about guardian angels a lot. Uh so what how how does um how do you understand angelic activity uh theologically?
SPEAKER_01I've never seen an angel, um, but I've certainly felt their power and and their action and and just um um you if you work hard and uh um you do the right things, uh I think people come angels help you or steer you or guide you and uh have you make proper decisions and um and just things um more much more than coincidences, but good good things happen. Uh and some time is at the very last minute and perfect timing. Um somebody calls you or somebody event happens, or um I think there's some power that makes that happen.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Once a particular thing we had um we had partners at a company and um they had sold their company uh unexpected to anybody and um and made all the papers and really could have put us in a terrible jam uh with uh uh debt coming due and that sort of thing. And um seemed like it was two hours later after it hit the press, and um but two hours after hit the press, I got a call from sort of an old friend I had contacted I'd made over the years who had uh was interested in investing and buying the company. So it's just um it's amazing how things like that fall into place. It's too good to be coincidental, I think, in my mind.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I mean, angels are one of the most just underappreciated uh gifts that God has given to believers. Uh, I I think just based on what church we grew up in, maybe if you grew up Catholic, you tend to have more of a um, I guess you give more attention to angels. And then if you come from other traditions, maybe it even almost sounds heretical or something like that. It's like, we'll talk about the Holy Spirit. We're not going to talk about angelic activity, but you know, Billy Graham wrote a book about about angels and angelic activity. And I mean, they're they're with us, they're for us. I mean, God has has given them to us to help serve us in in business and everything, every aspect of life, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. I think the power of prayer, the power of prayer and the positive thinking, um, with Norman Vincent Peel, um, his scripture was what they uh uh Philip Philippians uh 4 13. I can do all things through Christ, which strengthened me. You know, it's a lot like angels in my mind. Um, but but they're all there and all working together. So you need to um it all works, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And you you quoted the verse um about asking, seeking, and knocking. Can you think of a time in your business career where you uh maybe you felt a little discouraged and and the Lord encouraged you with that verse, and you just really started to ask, seek, and knock. What did that look like for you?
SPEAKER_01Oh, for sure. I think that that's Matthew 7, 7. Um for sure, it motivated me to um you you've got a lot of door slammed in your face when you're doing anything, starting a business or selling something or buying something. Uh, you just have to take more and more action. The other, the other, the other the other scripture of that is the proverbs, uh lazy hands make for poverty, but diligent hands bring wealth. Uh, Proverbs 10, 4. And so it's uh um, I think those are all very motivational, very true. Um, you know, even just for uh a layman who is not um a religious person, it is just great uh themes to live by.
SPEAKER_02What does that look like specifically in your business career? And and maybe a specific example.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think um, you know, over the years you think of projects and different businesses you can start and do something, and you can think, you can think and think and think about it, but you don't take the action, the thought, and sometimes some of you see a business start up and say, Oh, I thought of doing that. You know what? Just go open a restaurant or something, and all of a sudden there's a restaurant and the corner you thought you'd make a good restaurant. Um, but you don't take the action, you know, you lose out. And so the um it's the action guys that that prosper in my mind.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. How did you get into the the concrete the concrete business? I mean, you obviously did extremely well there, and and that's I mean, if you go into a typical MBA class today and ask them what kind of businesses they want to start, you know, they're the you know, they want to do some kind of robotics business or social media company or something that's they're gonna feel like really looks cool, sounds cool. Um, concrete is probably not at the top of uh a lot of their their lists, and yet it's such a valuable service. How did you end up getting into that?
SPEAKER_01But for sure, you know, what one thing um one thing is actually one of the things that motivated me a lot was during my some big MBA courses I was taking. The prof said, well, the way to really get ahead and prosper in in America is to um you know work our way up a fortune 500 company. The Fortune 500 CEOs make a lot of money and it's stock options and all that kind of thing. That will um, you know, how many Fortune 500 people are there? And there's 500. Um, so that's I could chances being a national NHL hockey player or baseball player, football player are better than being the Fortune 500.
SPEAKER_02Really good point.
SPEAKER_01So it's um so but yeah, so that's where I got pushed over to entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs, my dad was a entrepreneur and equipment dealer and farmer and all the other things. But um so that motive me in that direction. But then we started, I had a partner who started who was an engineer from Canada. We started, uh came down to business in Dallas, and we realized that uh everything's very well landscaped um in Texas, and but a lot of Mediterranean arch, brick arches, and that sort of thing. But there was no paving stones. And because we were uh our little town in Canada was uh more paving stones actually invented in Germany um after the war and high-pressed, high compressed concrete. Um, so they were at our little German community in Canada. We had them there, I grew up with them. So we brought them to Texas, uh, which was fun to start up. And the first four or five years were fun as we grew smallly and slowly and uh started making a little bit of money, and then another uh this RTC reset SNL crisis. You're too young to remember that, but in the late 80s, um, everything 86 every best year, and 87 is everybody's worst year. The distant just took a took a switch. So my partner left and we struggled, struggled and struggled to keep the company running. And so that it took me started the company in 1980, in 1994, 14 years later we were at 10 million dollars in sales, which is pretty good at finally breaking even and making a bit of money. Uh but it took us 14 years to 10 million dollars, and then the uh that's when you things start acting thought and action comes into place and you do things to grow your company quicker. And five years, five years later, 1990, 2019, 1999, I guess it was, um, we were at 100 hit 100 million dollars, and then every three years we doubled 200 million dollars and 300 million dollars and 400 million dollars. So uh we got to 400 million dollars after that. But during the years in the middle, um, after my partner left to the 1956 years there, were pretty ugly and pretty nasty. Um, they weren't much fun getting it done, but did it's the actually persevering and hanging through it and not giving up uh was um you know, we had to do that to be successful, and that's what happens in entrepreneurship.
SPEAKER_02That's right. And you share the journey in in your book, Angels and Entrepreneurs. Uh, do you want to give another plug for the book and let people know why they ought to get it?
SPEAKER_01Well, sure. I think it's a it's uh I did I really did it as a to to inspire my grandkids. My two my I'm too too too late to teach my kids much, but my grandkids, I think I can still influence them a little bit, and my great-grandkids and the grandkids to come. So keep them inspired and get the theory is the pep theory, you know, persistence, education, entrepreneurship, and passion about what you're doing, and really um setting goals and setting a vision and growing uh growing that company uh as fast as you can. Uh, and and every everybody wins, your employees win, your customers win, uh, your family wins. And it's uh uh hopefully you can give you a lot of resources to do other great things in with your what you do in your life and want to contribute to.
SPEAKER_02And Bob Schlegel author.com is the website, uh B-O-B-S-C-H-L-E-G-E-L author.com. Anything else you want to say about uh where people ought to go to connect?
SPEAKER_01Amazon is um it sells everything. They got the book and soft hardcover. It's been uh first couple weeks, it was a uh a Wall Street Journal bestseller, so that was kind of fun. Um, and we're left to hopefully inspire more and um we'd love to do it for students and kids. And my best thing, the best compliment I ever get is uh and I've received it several times. I'd Bob, I just I just read the book and I'm I I just ordered 10 more for each of my kids and grandkids, so it's kind of a fun uh experience. So we inspire, I would encourage you to get a copy. And um, if you have a lot of grandkids, get them more.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and Chuck Norris wrote a nice uh endorsement for the book.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we've been talking friends with Chuck and Gina for several years, and uh he wrote a great endorsement. I really thank him for that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. All right, everybody. The book is Angels and Entrepreneurs by Bob Schlegel. Um, Bob, uh, what's one action you want people to take as a result of what they've heard today?
SPEAKER_01Probably the biggest thing is get an education education. Pep to be it'll be in PEP is education. Um, an education raises all, you raise the tide for all boats, and tide raises rising tide raises all boats, as you know. Um, so I think the more education you can get, um, from that one-room schoolhouse to to college. Um, at one point I wanted to quit after quit school after attending to become a uh mechanic in a grease mucky in a garage. Um, and my mother would not hear, but I still remember her telling me, you're going to you're not quitting school, you're going to school. Um, and so I finished high school, went to college, and got a CPA. And uh because of her insistence and her determination, um it happened, and I think up on the first generation, my sister and brother and I first generation to go to high school is that back in the early days, there everybody's farm staying home and working in the farm. So it's um nothing wrong with that, but the more education you can have in the rising, the rising tide is just uh um education is the greatest thing you can acquire because nobody can take it away from you. I said my biggest mess, my biggest if you get anything, nothing else but getting great education for your kids and grandkids. Uh that's what it's all about.
SPEAKER_02Excellent. And this book has a lot of great education as well for entrepreneurs. Everybody go check it out. Bob, thank you for sharing your wisdom and some of your journey with us today. We're better for it.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Darren. It's my pleasure.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you would leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity in Business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about HBU Center for Christianity in Business at Christianity in Business.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your book.