Welcome back to the Christianity of Fitness Podcast, an initiative of the RTW Dom College of Fitness at Houston Baptist University. I'm your host, Darren Sheer, and this is a show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into fitness. On this episode, we're joined by Brandon Harvat. Brandon is the Chief Operating Officer for Christian Care Ministry, a nonprofit that administers Medishare, a faith-focused Christian community that comes together to share each other's medical bills. Since 1993, Medicare has been an affordable healthcare funding solution that honors biblically based values. MediChair members pray for each other and have agreed to share in expenses that align with their Christian faith. Brandon, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for having me today, Darren.
SPEAKER_02So how is Medishare different from typical health insurance plans?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Darren, that's a great question. We get it often. And I'll just start by saying you're right, MediShare is not insurance. So unlike insurance, MediShare is based on what we say are biblical stewardship principles and personal responsibility, you know, to God and to each other. So it's an extension of the practice of our Christian faith. The first one is, you know, giving uh members a more affordable healthcare funding solution. And the second, uh, just as important, if not more, is honoring our members' biblically based uh religious values.
SPEAKER_02So who is it for and who is it not for?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, uh, we'd like to think it's for anybody who uh aligns with our values as a Christian uh nonprofit uh health sharing ministry. And so uh you'll find our biblical values uh as a part of even the application process as you sign up. And uh as long as you align with those and you can affirm those, uh you're welcome to be a part of the membership. And part of that is uh being a part of the body of Christ, right? A believer in Christ. And so really it is a ministry that's an extension of the church and meant to support uh Christians all around the globe. Uh, you know, as you say, who's maybe not uh suited to be a part of it, well, that's um uh maybe a little more difficult to say if you can't affirm that statement of values, uh clearly um Medashare may not be a good fit for you. Um and there may be other situations where you may have um some serious chronic conditions or pre-existing conditions where uh you know Medicare may not be a good fit. Um it may still be, you could still be a member, but um that's something you'd really want to have a um detailed conversation with uh with us about to see if it could help you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and we do bill sharing as I was uh sharing with you before the call. And um one of the things that we're required to do, uh and I don't know if this is what you guys do as well, but you have to get your pastor to affirm that you're you know living up to a certain standard of Christian conduct, or at least that you haven't displayed the opposite in, you know, in in a significant way. Um is that something where you have to kind of get pastors to endorse your um your Christian faith as well?
SPEAKER_01Or yeah, we don't exactly require a pastor's endorsement. So you don't have to run around and get sign-offs from others uh to endorse um you know your your testimony.
SPEAKER_02Um and that you're attending church. That that's yeah, that's part of it as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we we don't require that, but we do require that you affirm uh that statement of beliefs, right? That we have as a as a body, as a group of members, you know, really that have come together. And we see that as it's pretty important. It's hard to come together in any group like that uh if you're not in agreement or alignment in your principles and your values.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. What do you see as being the scriptural basis for this model?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's probably um several good examples we could point to, but you know, the concept of sharing um is all over the Bible. I mean, sometimes there are different words, you know, used for it. I mean, that this is really a biblical principle. I mean, even if you think about the origins of health insurance itself, you know, dating back in the mid-1800s. I mean, Darren, you can uh you can argue pretty um, you know, I'll say uh pretty easily that health insurance is a um is an outflow of the church, right, in in Christian ethics by and large. Now, what it's become today, that's a different conversation. We can get into it. You know, I would probably point your listeners to Acts 4. And as you get into Acts 4 and uh verses 32 and beyond, Acts 2, even before you get to Acts 4, Acts 2, 44, the early church, as they were coming together and sharing, having all things in common, right? Uh, whether that was food or selling their belongings and helping one another, anyone that uh would have need. So, you know, really it's going back to that early church model of finding ways. And we think of ourselves as, you know, simply that, a platform for sharing. So healthcare aside, just for a moment, this really is about equipping and empowering the church in that model of helping one another, sharing one another's burdens, uh, and finding ways to do that. Now, in today's world, that looks a lot different, right? Technology, um, lots of sophistication, programming, uh, engineers and IT folks, and and great things uh that happen in that space. But at the basis of everything we do is that ethic, is that view of the church coming together and sharing.
SPEAKER_02And you make the claim on the website that the average medical cost sharing programs can be 50% less expensive than health insurance. How does that actually uh how is that possible?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's another great question. And um, you know, I I should probably back up a bit and just say before joining Medishare, the privilege of serving as the president of a hospital system, uh, and prior to that, um, had the privilege of serving more than a decade in the healthcare payer space, you know, commercial uh health insurance. So I've kind of had the inside ball look, you know, at uh this issue of healthcare in the US from both sides, you know, the delivery side of healthcare, the paying side of healthcare, the financing side of it. Uh, and it is um it is a uh complex industry to say the least. And so, how do we get cost uh so low? So it's probably important first that your listeners understand the MetaShare, while it's not insurance, it uh it is uh by foundation a faith-based nonprofit sharing ministry. And so the monthly share amounts that uh members contribute, uh while they're you know half the cost of health insurance plans, uh that just underlying structure of being a nonprofit faith-based ministry really helps us make sure our overhead, administrative burden, all of those things is simply less. And that's a huge advantage right off of the bat. You know, the second reason I'd give you is that the spiritual foundation of our members, so get this one, the healthier lifestyle that we see and folks that join us based on biblical values, uh, it means that the overall health and you know, our members are simply healthier, and that and that contributes meaningfully to that lower cost of being a member. And then I'd I'd add too, this might be a little unique in the healthcare sharing ministry space. A lot of your listeners, you know, like you are, Darren, you know, might be familiar with some other healthcare sharing ministries uh that are out there. Uh, MetaShare has been around, uh, we're celebrating our 30th uh anniversary next year, but the structure of our program uh is a little bit unique and it uh really helps make sure that, you know, one, um the services uh that members get, and then therefore what our members pay for, uh, that those services don't go against their biblical values, right? Whether that's abortions, whether that's uh other things that uh go against our biblical values. So the program itself is designed, you know, really to make sure one, things that shouldn't be paid for aren't paid for. And then the things that should be paid for, unexpected medical bills. You end up in the emergency room, you need surgery. Uh, we pay uh bills that are millions of dollars, uh, bills that are hundreds of dollars, tens of dollars. Uh, but we negotiate those bills. We have a network behind the MetaShare program of pre-negotiated contracts with providers, really just to make sure we're getting the best deal. Uh, and it's not uncommon, right? We uh we have members who uh I just spoke to a member the other day, had a very difficult pregnancy. Uh, the bill was literally hundreds of thousands of dollars after our experts finished talking to those facilities. Uh, that bill came down dramatically, more than in half. And we were able to pass that savings on to our members. So we have a very unique, I'll say, uh, apparatus or chassis of healthcare negotiation, really, to make sure that we get the best price for our members.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And so if it is a $100,000 bill, which fortunately we haven't um come up against one of those, but that's being paid directly by Medishare, correct? Because in our in our the model that we're a part of, um the we pay our share, and you know, it's it's around five, six hundred dollars a month. And then if when we have a need, we we put it up on the website. And then the we get payments from all over the country from from individuals and families who are covering the cost of whatever that need was, and you know, might be let's say it's a a thousand dollars. So we're gonna get five checks for like, you know, um whatever that amounts to 200 bucks or something like that. Um so your but your model, you're not you don't have to do and it is nice. I mean, you get a nice note and somebody's letting you know that they're that they're praying for you, whoever, you know, John Susie uh from Oklahoma. Um that's a nice, a nice aspect of it. But if we did have to pay for that $100,000 bill, um that's that's um that's a lot to to front and then wait for those those reimbursements. What is how are you guys operating in that respect?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I can't imagine being in that situation of having to figure out how you're gonna front $100,000. Or I mean, frankly, we deal with seven-figure bills um all the time, um, billions uh every year uh in in medical costs. And so that's a real problem families face. And you don't have to get to 100,000 before I mean problematic. I can't imagine you know facing a five, six, seven, eight, ten thousand dollar bill. Uh, and especially in today's world of inflation, I mean, it's hard enough uh filling up your gas tank or or getting your um groceries uh, you know, every every week. And I have a family of seven kids. I know what that's like too. But you know, MetaShare does operate a little bit differently than as you described. I'll actually just um say a lot differently. Um the church isn't quite what it was in the first century either, right? And and sort of, you know, the passing of the plate. So um, you know, I can make a case that um, you know, there are good reasons to kind of keep it manual and keep it simple like that. But the way we've chosen to operate is really to make it as convenient for our members as absolutely possible, using the best technology in the world, using the best systems that we can get in the world, and making it as simple and smooth as we possibly can. So if you went to the doctor today, um and well, let's just say you ended up uh, you know, in the emergency room and surgery and you know, $100 plus thousand dollar bill, and you're sitting there wondering how to pay for it. First of all, with MetaShare, you're you're handing over a physical ID card that looks a lot like what you might experience if you've used health insurance in the past, although it's not insurance, and we'll keep saying that it's not insurance, but you're going to give them an ID card. And that card is equipped with uh EDI numbers, your membership number, all of the things that that doctors used to seeing when they're dealing with other health insurance uh payers uh in the space. And so we use some of the same technology to help them connect directly with us with MetaShare, and we pay the bill directly to them. So there is no out-of-pocket for you. Now, you know, you're gonna have an annual household portion that you're responsible for, maybe a $35 co-pay. It depends on the situation, but that big bill is not coming out of your pocket if it's an eligible bill to be shared in. And so we're gonna pay it directly to them. If there's an amount that you owe, you'll get that bill later and you can, you know, pay that later. We still do all of the wonderful things, even as you described. There's a wonderful online community of prayer. The bill that you get in in the mail or electronically in email will have uh members on there that are praying for you in your situation. And so we we really uh just like you've experienced in the program you're in, you appreciate that community of believers, right, who are behind you. Uh, we do the same thing. It's a little more digital, a little more electronic and automated uh in that fashion. I'll give you a couple of other important points there. So you you might say, well, okay, you got me over the um, you know, that business issue of how do I avoid going out of pocket. But there's also another important thing going on here, and that's the timeliness at which you know your doctor is getting paid or reimbursed. And so, you know, more than uh I'll say it this way, more than half, a significant portion of the bills that we receive are actually processed automatically. They're automated. And so we have a lot of technology on the back end that's automating that and sending it out the door in well under a week. Uh, we're talking about a matter of days once it's you know received, and that takes a day or so. And once it goes out the door, it's practically immediate. Then, of course, there are bills that are much more complicated. They require some intervention, some human touches and some negotiation, whatever the case may be. Uh, and that's when our you know skilled team uh comes into play and does work. But uh the vast majority of all claims go out the door in well under a month. And so that that in and of itself, and maintaining those very strong relationships, not only with our members and helping them not be out of pocket so much, but just as importantly, the providers, right, the doctors, the nurses. Uh and I can't say enough coming out of the hospital space. I know how hard they work. Uh, the last thing we want to do as Christians in the space is delay paying a bill that they're rightfully owed for, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. You happen to know the, so with your uh your annual uh expenditures, what percentage are actual bills being paid? And then what percentage uh um well let me put it like this. So the share that I pay, if it's you know, eight or nine hundred dollars a month, um, what percentage of that is going toward uh bills and what percentage is going toward overhead for your uh organization?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I'll I'll give you two um two components to that. One is really important because I've described um, you know, a chassis or a system, a support infrastructure of tools and capabilities and people that go directly into making sure that that bill uh can be negotiated as low as possible. Um, you know, we get the best deals, so on and so forth. When you take out all of those expenses, nine out of every $10 go directly to those medical costs. So we're running between 10 to 12% on that, you know, just administrative side. Uh, and then there are other dollars that go into that direct negotiation uh of the bill, if you will. And I say negotiation, that sounds like a manual conversation. So often those are uh systematic things or um you know applications of software and what have you.
SPEAKER_02How does that percentage compare with uh kind of the average for standard insurance?
SPEAKER_01Well, that's that's a great question. If we normalize for revenue, so if you put your business hat on just for a moment and you normalize for revenue, it's far, far less than insurance. And so as we think about the cost of health care being uh or or a health similar health insurance, commercial insurance plan being twice as much uh as a Medishare program, uh you can imagine right there that that uh percentage uh goes through the roof in comparison.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but and but you don't know like a percentage.
SPEAKER_01No, I I I you know, candidly, Darren, I think when you look at the cost of a commercial health insurance plan, and if you do that, um you know typically they're running in that 15 to 20 percent range. You know, so that admin component I I would suggest is um similarly about half the cost of a commercial insurance plan.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Hence the 50% number on the website. Um so do you work with uh obviously you work with individuals and families. Do you also work with employers?
SPEAKER_01Yes, we do. In fact, we offer a very specific uh group or employer program. And this program really is meant, you know, I'll say two things. One, to help employers who want to offer a Christian-based, value-based uh program as a part of other uh health uh solutions like health insurance that they might want to offer. And so we actually provide employers with a platform, an actual benefits platform, where uh if they want to include uh MetaShare as a part of that solution or solely offer Metashare as a part of their healthcare options for their employees, they can do that and we can help facilitate that for them. Uh the other side to that is really just offering it for individual entrepreneurs who want to get out and you know do their own thing for the first time. And we've heard this so many times through the pandemic, whether it's you know, folks, and I'm sure many of your listeners have struggled with this. If you're in the business world today and working for secular organizations and you know, you've been taking some advantage of this time or you feel a calling to do something different in your life, healthcare is always one of the biggest barriers or burdens that uh folks face in trying to figure out well, how do I replicate or get uh that kind of support if something were to go wrong, um, a healthy vent or something like that that I'm not able to afford, how do I do that? And so uh we really do like to think MetaShare is one of the best options, if not the very best option, uh alternative uh to health insurance you might be getting through your employer today if you're looking at striking it out on your own or doing your own thing.
SPEAKER_02So if you're paying 50% more for regular health insurance, um how much of that is just you're paying extra, not just for the overhead of that organization, of that insurance health insurance company, but you're also paying into the profits to the shareholders of those insurance companies. You have any thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, well, having come from several um I'll say health insurers or payers that were nonprofit, I've also uh worked at uh one of the largest international uh health insurers that's for profit. And so depending on who you talk to, their profit margins uh vary, of course. But um even the nonprofits, I think you would be shocked at some of their uh profit margins and um you know the way they you know work to um, and I'll put it a little crudely and say hoard cash, but um, but let's face it, there are other things in in the program design itself that you know you philosophically, fundamentally, just in in terms of how we apply biblical values in business uh to this world of healthcare sharing compared to insurance, this might be you know new to some of your listeners. And and the way we look at it is this uh there are fundamental uh things that have that you and I both have to pay for, whether that's an annual checkup or you know, routine things that may not be right or fair for everyone to have to pay for you. So things like that aren't exactly covered as a part of the program. So we take some of those basics and we say, you know what, personal responsibility is yours, uh, like you would think of maybe an oil change for your car. Um but when it comes to the big bills or unexpected things, um, that that's where Medishare really comes in to make sure uh you're you know you're not uh filing bankruptcy because you know you can't afford the emergency room or whatever the case may be. So there are pieces like that that are just different. And and I would say um fundamentally uh the health insurance world has sort of evolved into this area of uh entitlement and this area of, well, I'll I'll say it's devoid of personal accountability or any sort of responsibility and caring for yourself and taking care of your body.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. How fast is the bill sharing industry or or or segment of this? Health insurance industry, how fast is it growing?
SPEAKER_01Well, I will say sometimes it's a little hard to measure, but um there are a number of new entrants into the space uh over the last year. I would say well over a dozen. Um many of them are not nonprofit um ministries. Some of them are for-profit entities that are mimicking some of the same things that uh the ministry side uh is doing. And so their values are different. You have to be very careful about that and look into how those programs are being structured. But uh I would I would say there's a significant market trend uh that is shifting away from the traditional uh stale, um, you know, uh big uh insurance companies sort of world. Uh and you know what we've been, you know, again, I'll say it again, we've been doing this 29 years, but uh at the end of the day, I I don't know that we've seen, you know, quite this kind of interest or shift like we have in in years past away from you know the traditional health insurance uh companies uh to organizations like MetaShare.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So metashare.com is the website. Um what do you want to say to people about how they can um maybe take the next steps and check you guys out?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you you said it. Uh, metashare.com, best place to go, just to um take a look, um, check out the various uh programs. We've got a wonderful uh DPC or direct primary care program that's uh relatively new. Um by the way, I'll I'll uh throw in there too, if if you happen to be over the age of 65 and you're uh in Medicare territory, we also have a 65 plus program that's a wonderful uh supplement type uh program that you're probably going to find a lot of value in. We also offer programs like MANA for you know events like if you happen to lose your job that can help uh short-term replace your income. Uh so there's a lot of things you can check out there on metashare.com and learn more about us. Uh, most importantly, the ministry, the community of believers, um, how to be a part of that, uh, some of our values. Uh, if you want to give us a call, uh, we always love talking and and and I would share this with you too. Probably the most fundamental part of our ministry, Darren, really comes down to prayer. And so I don't want to leave this out. When you call in and talk to us, I don't know if you've ever had to shop for uh health insurance before, but I can guarantee you if your listeners have done that, they haven't had somebody pray for them in doing so. We're gonna pray with you, we're gonna talk to you about your healthcare needs, but um also what the Lord might be doing in your life, uh, and how we can be a part of that, how we can pray for you, pray through your uh medical events as they come up. We pray for your doctors, by the way, when they call in. So uh we are a praying organization, but you can call us. That number is really simple. It's 800-772-5623. Uh, and so whether they want to, uh your listeners would like to check it us, check us out online or in person, uh, they're welcome to do either.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Beautiful. Well, I love it. I mean, uh you know, you mentioned that there are there are things that you will not support, that the members will not support, like, you know, for example, uh abortions and things like that, that maybe a typical health insurance company would. Um, but there's there's I know in our experience, there are things that our bill sharing organization have done, like funding home birth. Um, I don't know if you guys do that or not, but it was that was what really initially kind of led us this this exodus out of traditional health insurance and into, hey, there's a there's a better way.
SPEAKER_01Yes. A great friend of mine um uh just gave birth to a new baby daughter and had a uh doula uh assist, and and that'll be part of the the bill share. So there are absolutely some creative ways to do that. Um a lot of folks still love to have their babies in hospitals and uh go um, I'll say, in some sense, that more modern uh traditional route. And I know that's an oxymoron, but uh uh the program um uh does uh pay for that as well. So we do offer our members uh options and there are specific family plans uh that we offer our members. So uh check those out too.
SPEAKER_02Awesome. Well, I'm a big believer in what you guys do. Brandon, thank you for sharing with our listeners today and helping us um just maybe open our eyes up to another path that we didn't realize was available to us. I know we've got a lot of entrepreneurs. I know that's a big um uh target outreach for you guys because I mean, when you're you're trying to start a business and you know you don't have that employee, that that employer provided health care, um, you're looking for another option that's not gonna break the bank, um, save 50% uh or more on your on your health insurance with with bill sharing. Medishare is obviously a very reputable uh organization that's been around, been doing doing great things for now 30, 30, going on 30 years. So really appreciate your time, Brandon.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Darren. Pleasure to be here.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you would leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity in Business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about the HBU Center for Christianity in Business at Christianitybusiness.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your podcast.