Welcome back to the Christianity and Business Podcast, an initiative of the RTW Dunham College of Business at Houston Baptist University. I'm your host, Darren Shear, and this is the show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. On this episode, we're joined by Dr. Eli Jones. Eli is a first-generation college student who became dean of three flagship business schools. That's at Texas AM, the University of Arkansas, and Louisiana State University. He currently serves as a professor of marketing at Texas AM University and has received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the American Marketing Association's Sales Special Interest Group. He's the co-author of Selling ASAP and Strategic Sales Leadership, Breakthrough Thinking for Breakthrough Results, and has a lot of practical experience out there in business. He worked in sales and sales management for Quaker Oats, Nabisco, and Freed Olay prior to entering higher ed. And he's the author of the new book, Run Toward Your Goliaths, which is about how he and his wife overcame what seemed to be insurmountable challenges as they rose from poverty to positions of influence. And he's the host of the new show, the new podcast show, the Victory Groove Podcast, an incredibly well-respected man of God, academic, businessman, academic entrepreneur, as he refers to himself. And excited to have him on the show today. Eli, welcome.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Thank you so much. So excited to be with you.
SPEAKER_02Well, I know this is a bit of a long story, but wanted our listeners to be able to get to know you a little bit more. How did you go from being a first-generation college student to the dean of three business schools at some of the largest and most respected universities in the United States?
SPEAKER_01Wow, that's a great question, and it's a very long answer, but I'll do my best to share kind of the highlights of the faith journey. Um, as you well know in the book Run Toward Your Goliaths, I kind of track how God has led my wife and me through various challenges. And one of those is this idea of being a first gen. I was really blessed to have two strong parents, uh, true entrepreneurs. And uh they did not have the opportunity to go to college, but they certainly promoted uh higher education. And I have two, excuse me, three siblings, two sisters, and uh and both my sisters uh attended college. Uh one of my sisters actually finished, and the inspiration came from watching my one of my sisters graduate with her degree when I was just a youngster. And it really inspired me. But the the path, and in short, was a path of nothing about you know what I planned to do was all God's work. There's no question about it, because I accomplished things I never imagined that I would accomplish. And so finishing college, starting a career in broadcasting, then coming back to AM and getting an MBA, and then that really led me toward more corporate work in sales and sales management. Uh, and then I was just inspired and led to go back to school again and get a PhD and then start the whole academic career. So I'm in my third career, and I can tell you that uh again, I've accomplished things I never thought I would. Uh, as I started my academic career at the University of Houston, worked with a group to establish a sales center there, building off of my sales experience, sales leadership experience. Uh, and that work alone, while I was really not getting paid to do it, it was just something that was out of my heart. It was a labor of love for sure, uh, and not really paying attention to others around me in terms of other universities, but that work then drew attention, uh national attention, such that I started getting calls from different universities, different colleges to consider being the leader of these different colleges. And so I went through a you know national search process several times. And thank God I was selected to be the dean there at LSU, my first dean experience. I relied a lot on my corporate experience as a leader, but leading in in higher education is a little different. You're sort of managing partners, right? So you're managing leading faculty who are partners, and I'm a faculty member. I was then blessed with with uh the opportunity to move to the Walton College of Business and got to get, you know, got to know Jim Walton pretty well. Jim Walton and his wife Lynn. Uh the Walton family obviously is very involved in the Walton College. So I had I was blessed to get that opportunity to be with him. Uh also uh had the opportunity to move back home. And so AM is home for me. And uh got to know Lowry Mays and Peggy Mays and the whole Mays family. And so that is kind of a you know a really brief overview of a path, a journey filled with giants, filled with challenges for sure, but one of which I'm very, very pleased and honored, and I'm very grateful to God for that opportunity.
SPEAKER_02And so you're there at Texas AM and have been for some time. Um being that this is uh a secular university, how do you equip the next generation of business professionals there and incorporate your own Christian faith into the teaching that you're doing?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Such a great question. And I'm surrounded by other faculty members at Texas AM who have the same passion for our Lord. Uh, and and we do witness and we do meet regularly and pray together. So we're part of the Christian faculty network on the campus of Texas AM. Texas AM is also unique in that uh we have breakaway ministries here. Now that's an amazing, just an amazing organization, breakaway. Uh actually, in our basketball stadium, uh, we actually have seats, 10,000 uh folks can go to the basketball arena. And uh on Tuesdays, we have 10,000 Texas AM students praying together on this secular campus. So it makes it somewhat unique and uh something that we're very proud of. But your question is, how do I witness to the students? And you know, uh as a believer, we all know this, sometimes it's just in our actions. Uh, I, as a dean, as a leader of the organization, I had the opportunity to speak to various audiences, internally and externally. And in my conversations with these different stakeholders, uh, my faith showed in how I reacted to different questions. It's how I presented myself. And so many folks kind of picked up on things and would come back and say, Yeah, ask me, are you a believer? Like, yes, I am, in the way I acted, in the way I treated my colleagues. And so that as a dean was important. Now, as a faculty member, I get an opportunity to continue writing, but also to go back to the classroom. And I'm very excited about that. I'll be teaching a new sales leadership course at the graduate level uh next fall, as it turns out. I'm prepping that course now. And in what I teach, which is sales and sales leadership, it's really built on biblical principles. It's about relationship building, it's about building trust. And so I really rely on biblical principles in my teaching.
SPEAKER_02And there's actually um a group that I'm sure you're familiar with there at AM in the business school, the the Christian business leaders group. I assume it's still active. I was actually invited to speak there a couple of years ago. And I I was expecting to walk into like a pizza party kind of deal, but no, when I walked in, they were buttoned up. I mean, they were sitting down in their, I mean, suits, and I mean, they were ready for business. And um probably about 150 of them. I guess it's it's sort of like a fraternity sorority of Christian business leaders. And I pretty much everyone I talked to was going to work for like a big four accounting firm or you know, some really prestigious company coming out of coming out of AM. But I was just so impressed um with their their heart for the Lord and um and their passion to uh just make him known in the marketplace.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I was blessed as I was transitioning back to AM. Uh, one of my dear friends, Dr. Ben Welch, uh he's a really strong believer and he's uh one of my colleagues, he organized some prayer sessions with various leaders across the campus, including those in the Christian business leaders group. And so they actually came to my office in broad daylight. We weren't hiding the thing, and they paraded into my office and prayed over me. It was just a wonderful, wonderful experience.
SPEAKER_02Wow, praise God. So, any of you Christian business professors listening, be encouraged. Um, be bold. And um, and so you've come out with this this new book, Run Toward Your Goliaths. Tell us what are some of the Goliaths that Christian business professionals must overcome in the marketplace, maybe some that you overcame specifically in the business world.
SPEAKER_01Sure. No, that's a great question, too. Uh I just released a Victory Groove podcast, and I interviewed a young man who talked a little bit about going into business for himself. And one of the things that we found in common, uh, Odin Clack is a guest on Victory Groove, the most recent one, but we have found in common that, you know, just to get to break out on your own, to start something new, as you well know, you're an entrepreneur yourself, it takes a lot of courage, a lot of faith, a lot of confidence for sure. And so this idea of fear of change, this fear can be a Goliath for many, uh, pushing through and really striking out on your own and taking those faith steps to start a business or to run a major organization. So fear typically comes up, anxiety, those are other kinds of giants that we face. Uh, and what I did with the book is I based it obviously on David and Goliath, but these ideas of these ideas of giants, these are challenges that we face in life, right? And so I faced this challenge of being poor. Uh, poverty was one that I when my wife and I started with children, by the way. And we had to face that. I watched my parents face many challenges. They had challenges of not being able to get financing for their businesses when they first started. Uh, you know, but they punched through all of that. They just ran toward those challenges and they were able to make those faith steps and accomplish great things because of God, because of our beliefs. And I think that's very, very important.
SPEAKER_02And as you mentioned, you have a podcast called The Victory Groove. Um, what is the victory groove?
SPEAKER_01Just thinking through it, you know, I built it around David dancing. All right. So we I love that about King David, how he danced with all his might. I'm a musician too, so I love the idea of using these instruments to praise God uh through music. Uh my wife and I actually have a music ministry too. So we we actually praise God through our music ministry. But victory groove is this idea of look, as believers, we already have the victory. We know that. We know how this end game is going to be, right? We know where we are in Christ and we know the end story. And so when we think about it, we have the victory. But what has happened over time, particularly after this big pandemic, a lot of folks kind of lost their groove, they kind of lost their footing, they got you know very afraid, many of us. I mean, think about during COVID, we were pushed into uh really changing a lot of behaviors, right? You know, all of a sudden we're you know, working remotely, all of a sudden we're you know detaching ourselves from family and friends because a lot of anxiety, the research has shown it. I mean, anxiety is really one of those main mental health issues right now. There are people still holed up in their homes and not leaving their homes. So return to work is a big problem. But back to the point. So when I think about this idea of running toward your Goliaths, and I think about the the fact this is a fact, that we have the victory. What we really need to do is get our groove back and walk in that victory.
SPEAKER_02Amen. And one of the strategies that you teach as part of this uh this battle plan is the anchor and float strategy. What's that all about?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so that's something that my wife and actually and I actually came up with. So we, you know, blessed with four children, going through graduate school uh multiple times, launching a career, just coming out of our teenage years, we realized that you know we were gonna have to, someone was gonna have to anchor, all right, and the other was gonna have to be allowed to float. So it's based on a more of a traditional marriage, you know, where my wife was the anchor, still is the anchor of our family, uh was there with the kids, really anchoring, which made me uh actually have the time to get out and go float and go try some different things. So I started a couple of businesses while in graduate school. Uh, I went, you know, I tried various things and you know, did the corporate route, did the academic route, and that was kind of the float that uh that's there in the anchor and float. So the the challenge for a lot of folks today is we have people who are, you know, both parents are working, and and you're still trying to work through having and leading young children, and that's a real issue right now. Uh, we've got adult children and they're facing some of those things. Uh they've got children, and uh both parents are working. That's a real issue. So we challenge in the book in uh the book running towards your Goliaths, this anchor and float part of the book is about hey, how would you take the concept of anchoring the family and allowing the floating to happen? You gotta do both, and in that floating, you have an opportunity to really face some of these challenges and go out and explore and innovate and take risks, you know, things that entrepreneurs like to do, right? But someone's got to anchor. So we challenge in the book hey, how would anchor and float work for you in your family? There are variations of that idea.
SPEAKER_02That's good. So, Eli, if you would take us through uh a specific giant that you faced. I know you mentioned uh poverty kind of early on. Um during your business career, what's a specific Goliath that you faced and and how did you take down that Goliath?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, um, I got into sales. Okay. So in sales, we could we I think we can relate to this. So many times we say in sales that you're gonna get a lot of no's, right? And so you got to be, you have to have the stamina, the perseverance, right? You got to be able to get back up and go back into that next sales call. And I think a lot of folks, particularly in sales, being revenue producers, we face those giants that that courage to get back up after getting a series of no's and to persevere, punch through it, and go on that next sales call. So that's that's highly prevalent in sales, right? I obviously face those. Uh obviously I face those. Uh, I remember taking on a team, a sales team that was the lowest performing sales team in the division. And it was a real risk because I was recruited by a company to take on this low performing sales team. And I remember, you know, anytime you switch a company, that's a risk too, right? You're starting to build relationships all over again. And in this case, it was very risky because I had enjoyed some successes in my prior company, and I was willing to take this chance. And that giant to me was to say, well, you know, I kind of got the feel for selling on my own, right? And learning how to sell to various clients. But now leading a team of salespeople and those salespeople being the lowest performers in the division, that was a giant. It took a lot of work. Uh, I really got to know my teammates very well. I went out on sales calls with them, spent a lot of time getting to know each individual. You know, get the book running toward the glides. I also have one spot at a time. So I kind of adopted that concept uh and uh that my dad taught me. And so I focused on each individual salesperson, one person at a time, and got to know them and got to know what would motivate them. And the good news is in one year, we went from being number 86 to number two in the division. That was a giant, you know, they were behind, the whole team was behind in terms of sales performance. Uh, and in one year we were able to turn that around. So that's an idea of taking risks, you know, leaving one company where I had a pretty good success record, going to a brand new company and taking on a low-performing team. That's part of the story. And I give God the glory.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes. Um, and and so the strategy there is to go one at a time, right? Not to get so overwhelmed by the the giant that you just kind of seize up like the the men of Israel did there and um and King Saul. I mean, they just they were completely at a loss for what to do. Um well, Eli, what action do you want people to take um as a result of what they've heard today? Uh certainly want people to go get a copy of the book, run toward your Goliath, um, get at uh Amazon.com, Barnesandoble.com, um, or at elijones.com. That's really where probably the best place to get it. Um, but what what action do you want people to take um concerning their own giants today?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, so you said it first would love for folks to go to elijones.com and and purchase the book and really read about this faith journey. But one of the things that I have in the book that a lot of folks who have already read it, already commented on, uh, is that I've got these five smooth stones at the end of every chapter. And uh in the in the purpose of having those, and you know, as we're going out taking on these battles and these giants, it was important for me to have as a summary these five smooth stones at the end of every chapter. So would love for people to grab the book, read about it. I've prayed over it quite a bit, and then that is I want a very special, a very special uh experience for each person who reads the book. And for those who have read it, it's been interesting. They've come back and they've commented on what they learned from it. And that, you know, it's been interesting to hear because they pick up different aspects of what I'm talking about in the book and relate to those things. And God has spoken to them in some really unique and profound ways, is what they've told me. Some have said, you know, what I got from it was, man, I had some projects that I started. I need to go back to those projects and I need to finish. God put on my heart to do something many years ago. And I, for one reason or another, I didn't follow through. But the reading the book gave me that inspiration to go back and pick up those projects and do some things. Right. So that's one of those things. That is, please get a chance to read the book and tell me what you think about it. The other is to continue to be faithful. I know we are facing some real issues right now in our country. You know, when you think about the talent shortage, I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of business owners, and we're talking about this talent shortage, uh, this great resignation that people have referred to. It's a big challenge. And this is a Goliath for many businesses right now. You know, sometimes you go to a restaurant and the service is slow, and the owner might come out and say, Well, I'm shorthanded, right? So we're still facing these giants, these Goliaths, you know, as we kind of exit, if you will, this post-pandemic world. Um, exit the pandemic, that is. But I think, you know, to have the faith, the confidence, and to be sure to continue to inspire others, inspire others to do the same. In the book, I talk about all these various folks who crossed my path right when I needed them. And so I try to pass it on. I try to be that person uh that folks can count on when they need help. So those that's kind of a call to action, if you will, coming from this run toward your Goliaths idea.
SPEAKER_02Yes. All right, everybody, run toward your Goliaths. You already know what they are. Um, you're maybe you're on a lunch break, you're about to go back into the uh into the battlefield, um, be encouraged. Uh, thank you, Eli, for taking the time to help us grow today and um and help us be bolder. Um, we're better for it. Elijones.com is the website. Everybody go and check it out. Check out this book, Run Toward Your Goliaths. Thanks again, Eli.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Darren. Really appreciate it. God bless you.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you would leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity in Business podcast online. You can get more information about the HBU Center for Christianity and Business at Christianityandbusiness.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your book.