Welcome back to the Christianity and Business Podcast, an initiative of the RTW Dunham College of Business at Houston Baptist University. I'm your host, Darren Shear, and this is the show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. On this episode, we're joined by second-time guests, my dear friends Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Jim is the host of the I Work for Him Radio Program, the only daily faith and work radio program in America. Jim utilizes his networking expertise to arrange daily interviews with authors, workplace believers, and ministries that are connecting faith and work. And Martha has worked alongside Jim for their 35 years of marriage, complimenting him by bringing in almost a decade of retail management experience and an outstanding record of over-the-top customer service and project management. And they're the authors, the co-authors of three new books. I work for him, she works for him, and I retire for him. Jim and Martha, welcome back to the show. Thanks, Darren. Good to be here with you.
SPEAKER_04It is. Thanks for having us.
SPEAKER_01So I really view you as the MCs of the Faith and Work movement. You're you're really the um the voice of the faith and work movement. I don't know anyone that has their finger on the pulse more than the two of you. So what's been happening in the Faith and Work movement over the past three years? Since this is kind of a part two from our listeners can go back and uh listen, I think it's around episode 48, 49, somewhere around in there, um, to what had been happening in the faith and work movement at that time. But um, a lot has changed over the last several years. Um, what's happening in this movement right now?
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna let you go first, ladies first.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Well, you know, some pretty amazing things. Um, if I were to say that when we first started having an I work for him talk show, which was eight years ago, there was very few people even knowing how to articulate this conversation about connecting their faith in their work. Um, last time we were on, we we probably said, you know, it is God is piercing the hearts of people across the country to ask the question, why does my work matter? Why do I do this? Do I need to quit my job and go work in a church? I I'm how do I fulfill my calling? You know, so people were starting to ask those kinds of questions. Today, I would say that the Holy Spirit has been very busy um stirring up in workers in every industry, in every um aspect of work to ask that same question on a much bigger scale and um gathering together to kind of to work together to to try to figure out how to do that, how to better align their whole life with the uh saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and what that looks like um from home to work to church to neighborhood to family and all of all of those things. So um much more convert, a lot of people really just activating that connection of their faith and living it out in their work.
SPEAKER_03And the things I would add to that, Darren, are that we're starting to see I'm not gonna say a lot of churches, but many churches actually starting to engage in the same conversation. Of course, those churches are mostly pastored by millennials or by former business people who have been called to the pulpit. And so that conversation is growing within the Four Walls Church, but because of COVID, the church was extricated from the building and spread out all over the community. And we're seeing a mass amount of collaboration in the movement of God, the kingdom in the workplace. Regardless of denomination, there are collaborative groups in cities across the country, regardless of denomination, where people are getting together and go, how can we impact our city through the marketplace for Christ? And it continues to go to the idea of as Jesus followers, everybody around us should be benefiting from our faith, regardless of whether they believe in Jesus or not. What we've uncovered through the show, after we've done now a little over 3,000 interviews and we've launched an additional podcast, I retire for him, and an additional podcast launches this next month under She Works for Him, is that there's over 3,000 ministries speaking into the Faith and Work Movement. And again, I learned about a brand new one today. So there are God is raising people everywhere with this idea. And what we're trying to do is connect people who are doing similar things so they don't waste money, so we don't waste kingdom dollars. But what we see is that there continues to be a singular, a single person in charge of the faith and work movement coordinating all the movements, and that's the Holy Spirit of God.
SPEAKER_013,000 ministries that are all speaking into faith and work. Like, what are, and and let me go back to what you said about the the city movements. Like, what are some examples of what that's looking like as it relates to uh faith and work?
SPEAKER_03So we were just uh in Cincinnati a couple weeks ago for an event uh sponsored in part by uh at work on purpose with Chuck Proudfit and uh city reaching movement there in town, I can't remember what it is, City Gates or something. City Servants. City Servants, thank you. And and here's the deal. What what what this the city reaching movements have mostly been championed by churches and the marketplace movements been mostly championed by faith and work uh ministries. But there hasn't been a lot of collaboration. But what they're realizing is that if you're really gonna reach a city today with less than 20, maybe if you're generous in some cities, 30% attending church, you're never gonna reach the city through the church. You need the marketplace. And so what you're starting to see is movements in cities like Cincinnati. Cincinnati's gonna be the greatest example, I think. They're going to be the example for the rest of the country.
SPEAKER_04The poster child. The poster child.
SPEAKER_03In a good way, and there's eight or nine hundred ministries working together in that city where they realize, hey, we're gonna reach the city for Christ through the marketplace. So let's partner together, marketplace ministries, church, four walls, churches to touch our city, bring healing to our city, to bring uh solutions to social justice issues as well as regular old, you know, issues of poverty and housing and uh homelessness and things like that. Let's let's let's be a minister to our community, bring kingdom solutions, which everybody benefits from. And so we're starting to just see like walls coming down and like, hey, it's not working on our own. Let's partner up, let's do this, let's collaborate.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What are some of your other uh favorite examples of kind of new advents and the uh in fact, when I heard you say the city movements, I immediately thought about Cincinnati because I had also recognized that was in fact, we just drove through there a couple of days ago on our way back from uh Columbus, even got some skyline chili. Um yeah, but that's got a repeating effect. They always throw a lot of onions on top of Skyline chili.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Actually, I was born there. Um, so I I guess I kind of had it in my in my blood. Uh the um uh the appetite for chili with cinnamon in it, um, which is what they what they serve. But um, what are some of your other favorite examples of from from what's happening in the faith and work movement right now?
SPEAKER_04Um, I would say another one would be people that um are have been people of influence in and just their peers or just their um personality that maybe for years were being told, well, you really can't interject your faith in your work or it's not going to be successful, that are putting that lie behind them and they're stepping out in with courage and saying, you know what, I I know that there can't be any other way. I have to be true to what God has taught me in the scripture and live that out. So I think of um several different people that we've interviewed that they now have some sort of discipleship or mentoring. It may just be four or five people, it may be a group of 20, it may be many have gone online. COVID has really for allowed that platform to um reach a whole lot more people because I might be drawn to a leader that, you know, somebody leading a mentoring group and they live in Arizona, you know, and I can do that now, other than the time difference, right? So um that has really expanded it. But I think it's so many people that we've talked to that have said, you know, I just I just made a choice. I'm gonna I'm gonna be more outward about where my faith is a part of the decisions I'm making within my work and um the success that they've seen. And and when Jim is Jim said there's like 3,000 organizations or communities of people, you know, there's Facebook people uh groups, there are um LinkedIn groups, there are people meeting in their lunchroom, praying together, doing Bible study, um, to some very extensive, you know, monthly, quarterly, weekly meetings that are that are really networking those people together for the gospel.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03The only thing I'd add, what I mean, I told I well, Martha's you know, nailing the head with a hammer, right? You should put in whatever you're supposed to say.
SPEAKER_04I'd be a carpenter?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you're being a carpenter. Is that the movement, for the most part, the the faith and work movement over the last 45 years has been particularly male, particularly pale, and it's grown, they grew a little bit stale for a while there. But what's happened is that there's a huge move of God for Christian working women. When we set up the Awakened Podcast Network at awakenpodcastnetwork.com and gathered together the voices of all the faith and work podcasts, just like this one in one place. I started trying to find all the ones that are speaking into Christian working women. I found 37 titles focused on Christian working women. Five years ago, almost none. Uh, and that's a real positive move because when women become believers, they get spiritual gifts too. 55% of the workforce is female. So if the numbers are right, there's 30 plus million believers who are women in the workplace today. Who's discipling them? Well, there's ministries popping up around the country to do that discipleship, and that's exciting. That's one of the reasons we launched the She Works Friend podcast to draw attention to all of those ministries that are specifically discipling Christian working women. That's a huge thing, but there's still a big gaping hole.
SPEAKER_04And what's that big gaping hole?
SPEAKER_03I was gonna let Darren ask that question. Yes, please. What is tell us, tell us. You know, this country is now 35 or 40 percent. I'm gonna use simple terms, white, another 25 black, and maybe 35 Latino. Okay, there is very little interaction between those demographics. Um, and I'm talking more culturally. I don't use the word race because we all trend trend back to Nola and his wife, their three sons and their three wives. And so we're all the same race, but our cultures are different. But I see very little cultural interaction in the marketplace in the faith and work movement. There's a lot of interaction in the marketplace between all of those different demographics. And I threw up forgot about the Asian demographic. The Asians don't tend to alienate themselves, or that's the wrong word, not alienate, um, segment themselves. But what's so there's there's just very little in the faith and work movement in the Latino world, a lot of people get the connection to faith and work if they're from South America because most of their pastors were bivocational. Uh, a lot of black churches teach faith and work. I don't know much about the Asian churches, but there's very little, there are very few ministries focused on faith and work that are feeding into those diverse cultures. There are a few. Kingdom-driven entrepreneur is one of them. Uh, but it it's it there's still so much room for us to cross-pollinate. Because when you start to experience the faith from people within different cultures, even in our own country, wow, you start to get your brain stretched a little bit and it's fun. But there's there's some gaping holes there for sure. And the majority of the ministries are also focused mostly on business owners and leaders, not on the everyday believer. That's not to say categorically, but that's why we wrote our three books. It was because there's a there's a there's a there's some millions of people just need something that will give them a little kick in the pants and an encouragement uh to to know what to do, even if they're not a business owner or leader.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What are some of your you've hit on a some of them already? What are some of your biggest frustrations with the faith and work movement?
SPEAKER_04Um, you know, so one thing that frustration, and and this may end up being a positive thing. I was thinking about the fact that um, you know, in our workspace, we don't concern ourselves so much with, well, what denomination does is my coworker, right? We just are thrilled that they love Jesus and I love Jesus and we have that in common. And um there's been some, you know, pockets of organizations that have been very much um, you know, focused on their bent of theology, but I'm seeing some of those walls break down because I'm seeing more of us say, you know what? We all experience God differently. As long as we know the basis of our faith is in common, um, you know, teach me things you know. I'm gonna teach you things I know that God has taught me. And let's work together to let other people know about the love of Jesus. Not so much about um all of the things that just divide us. Because one of the things that we love in scripture, it's it says, they will see me when they see unity in you. Basically, that's you know, the the Martha paraphrase of the day, I guess. So, you know, the world will see the Holy Spirit working in our lives when we're unified. And if we have tensions and divisions and we're butting heads on things that really don't matter, what's that showing the world that we're just like them? We're just like the culture around us that's you know, dysfunctional. Yes, we're all human, and that's something I like to remind people. You know, we're not perfect, so we're gonna make mistakes, and we're we're not gonna always do things the right way, but giving each other that um challenge and encouragement for unity as opposed to finding all the things to divide each other about.
SPEAKER_01What's something that denominations are headbutting over that's specifically detrimental to the faith and work movement?
SPEAKER_03Boy, I don't I don't know that I could speak to that with any expertise, but I could speak to denominations categorically, is that they still, for the most part, pastors think that the faith and work movement is another program instead of it being a complete Romans 12, to trans changing the way we think kind of a movement. Uh pastors, mostly because they've been trained in seminary, have been trained to preach and have been uh trained, a lot of times not trained to run a business, which is the church, uh, but they haven't been trained, they've been trained to build a little K kingdom and to grow a church and have lots of people. But they haven't been trained to run a manufacturing plant, to produce Christ followers that when they leave on Sunday, they're heading out into their workplace onto their mission field. Um, and that mindset still remains pretty consistent among all denominations, not categorically. There's a lot of pastors starting to get this, but we're still commissioning missionaries to the foreign mission field, but not to um McDonald's, not to uh John Deere manufacturing plants, uh, not to uh O'Reilly Auto Parts. We're still don't get this. And that's pretty if there's another frustration, it's that that's still there's still room for improvement there. But glass half full, which I'm not, I'm seeing we're seeing a lot of change. We're seeing a lot of movement. And I think you know, God has used COVID to shift so much in our globe, specifically in our country, to get the church out of the building.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So where do you see uh things heading with the movement over the next several years?
SPEAKER_04You know, with I one thing, and there's so many things, and I think it's gonna be very positive. I think that there's a lot of people in our lifetime that have been dreaming and praying and um working towards a time where there is more open um living out of faith and work. And I believe that we are we're in that and we're entering, you know, getting more and more of that in this unity is a big part of that. Um, but I believe that as all these little um organizations pop up where somebody just says, I don't know, God just told me to start a Bible study and this is what it's turned into. And, you know, there's maybe hundreds of people coming to lunch once a quarter or whatever it might be in their city, that they're starting to say, Oh, there's other people doing this. This is a bigger move than just what's happening here. And there's, I think COVID kind of helped with some of that because we we had to look out, you know, and go, well, what is going on out there? And I'm gonna do some looking. And um, if you, if any other organizations were on the internet, people started to find each other and make bigger communities. So I think that one of the things that's gonna happen is that slowly all these smaller organizations are gonna look to each other for support, for encouragement. Um, you know, God told us years ago, don't reinvent the wheel. You know, there are really smart people that have that I have, you know, churned up to maybe write some curriculum or to share some study that they've done or whatever they're, you know, whatever God's called them to create. And if I'm not good in that area, I can find what somebody else has created with God's giftings, right? So use utilizing more of each other's resources in a way that exponentially improves it for everybody. I just see that happening. And it might just be little pockets now, and and but eventually, you know, that's gonna keep on growing.
SPEAKER_03But the movement's gotta, it's gotta shift the responsibility to the next generation. It's got to shift it to your generation, Darren. And I think that's it's gotta go from the boomers to the millennials. Uh, and it's gonna skip the Xers. You know, we're always we're just the flyover generation. Nobody cares about those Xers, but it's gotta do that. It's it's stuck in the leadership for the most part of the boomer generation, and it's gotta shift to the Xers, and it's gotta boomers need to move to just wisdom positions, you know, wisdom elevation, and let the uh millennials run with it uh because it's gonna be a different feel, and we've got to reach the millennials, the young millennials who are in their early 20s and the digital gen who are now in their late teens. We've got to get them and we need to get them quick because they're getting programmed uh by school and society and the news to think that uh Christianity is irrelevant at all points, and where it's just such a lie. So we that's something that's gotta happen. Uh, and there are some there are some moves that are hinting at this, um, but it's that's gonna be there's gonna be some people that are gonna go kicking and screaming to give up that position of leadership and just use it as a position of influence. And that's that's where we're hoping. I mean, we're actually it's in our goal list in the next couple years to kind of to to raise up some co-hosts who are millennials in their 30s that we can transition it to. Uh, I work for him for sure, the podcast, uh, and and do the same thing with she worked for him. I retire for him. My co-illist is 80. So maybe I'll be that 80-year-old guy with a younger guy one day.
SPEAKER_04But you know, it made me think of a lot of what we've been explaining. We haven't actually used one of our favorite words, and that word is collaboration. And that is the direction that I see that um at least a flourishing faith and work movement is going to continue to grow in collaboration. We're involved in some events this year where you would never have expected that one organization is putting the event on, but they're collaborating with dozens of organizations and they're bringing them in as speakers and they're lifting them up. And they're highlighting what they're doing. And they're not saying, I'm afraid my members are going to go to your membership. They're not, you know, there's not that kind of tension because we know there's enough workers in this world that need to hear about Jesus. And if you had that kind of perspective, then there's no limit. And I'm seeing a lot more people that might have been closed-handed before, that are being more open-handed and saying, how can we work together rather than doing this on our own? Because it's tiring to do it on our own, you know, and if it's an aging organ, aging group anyway, right?
SPEAKER_03And it's been so ineffective. Darren, I know you've been in you've been in touch with this movement for a lot of years already. And when you look at the effectiveness of some of the major ministries that are discipling Christian business people, they've only touched a few thousand people. I mean, there may be only 10,000 business owners, Christian business owners being discipled, and that's a probably generous number in the country. Out of how many million Christian business owners are there in this country? And only 10,000 have been impacted. So they're starting to realize hey, alone, we're not getting it done.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03And so our, I mean, so just I want to make sure I mention in the audience to the audience today. So there's a there's a movement called the Great Awakening Project, gapmovement.com. It's in its infancy stages, but that's where we're seeing a collaboration amongst all the spheres of influence within the country, all the ministries coming together into one place saying, how do we reach our country for Christ and impact our country in a positive way by ministering to the needs of our country in order to attract them to Christ? And we're seeing a collaboration at a level, and I'm gonna say swords being put down at a level that I've we've never seen in the body of Christ. And it is it's fascinating to watch. And we're gonna cover it. I mean, that's uh that's one of our goals is like, what's God doing and how do we cover it? How do we cover it like news reporters?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And you do that in your books, I work for him, she works for him, and I retire for him. So why don't you give us uh a taste of what people can expect when they go pick up a copy of these books?
SPEAKER_04Excellent. Well, um, the format is quite fun to talk about. And um, the maybe we should start with I work for him, Jim, because that's kind of a foundation. So, first of all, just a thing.
SPEAKER_03I you, Darren, know more than anybody else. I went and set out to write a book. We've been doing uh on the air ministry since uh April of 13. And people said, Well, you're on the air, you need to write a book. And I said, I'll write a book when God tells me to write a book. And Darren, as you know, because you helped publish these books, um, hybrid books did that I came to you in January 2020 and I said, It's not one, it's time to do books, but we're gonna do three triplets. We did triplets. And you didn't tell us we were crazy then, you probably should have, but um, I did. I think people got mirrors. You didn't say crazy, you said that's not normally what people do. You said it in a nice way. Um, so but what we what we wanted to do is we wanted to do on paper what we do on the air, and that was collaborate with people, and so but we also wanted to speak to the everyday believer because we saw I was looking for holes. You know, I've read 500 books about the faith and work movement, and I wanted to fill the holes that I saw. And and I might be wrong, but what we saw was that there's not a lot of stuff for for the everyday believer. And so I work for him as a book put together by Martha and I in collaboration with an additional 21 authors that just share practical, tactical, factual, and biblical ways to live out your faith in your work, and then a connection to 21 ministries that can help disciple you and take you further. What we did is an extra added bonus. Martha's dad wrote a story at the end of every chapter. And those stories are from his journey of living out his faith and his work, from when God revealed to him his career all the way to the day he retired inside I work for him, and then he carries those stories forward into I retire for him for how he's been living out his faith and his work. So there's a there's a backstory throughout the whole books that's kind of fun just to see where's where's God taking Ted next? Uh and Ted is 88, going on, 89 years old, and this was his life's work, but he was able to put it down, it was fun. We had to teach him to talk to text uh because typing was not his gift, but we were able to capture his stories. But inside I work for him, we just we put the reader in touch with practical things, tactical things they could put into practice at work, but also organizations that can help take them deeper uh into living out their faith in the work. And then we hand it out to I Retire for him.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I retire for him just kind of takes that to the next level. Again, laying the foundation. What is retirement? What is biblical retirement, not American retirement? There's a big difference between the two. And talking through that at the beginning of the book, and again, more chapters by my dad with his story, because he had come to Jim and he's like, Jim, I get, I love what you guys are doing with I work for him. I get it. I'm on board.
SPEAKER_03But I I don't I work for him, I retire for him.
SPEAKER_04And and that was the day it was born, right? And so so that is really what it came out of. And then again, very similar to I work for him, um, the back, the the second half of the book has contributors that are talking about ways that you can do something in retirement.
SPEAKER_03Um, to ministries to connect to ministries.
SPEAKER_04Um, you know, there are so many opportunities that people just don't know about. Being intentional, it's really all about intention. And if you look at the cover of the book, it's a passing of a baton. So it's that whole idea of mentorship and discipleship. And, you know, people learn all these skills. We we go to all this training, our whole career, so that we can do what with it. You know, we don't do a good, effective job of passing that on, whether inside the walls of the work or in life in general, you know, and so really talking through that. Um, so that's I retire for him. Unlock God's purpose for your retirement.
SPEAKER_03So it the point between behind these two books is okay, you've got somewhere around 80 million people that are Christ followers, they're either working or retired. For them to realize that for the retiree that their call didn't retire when they did, but that their work matters to God and where they are in retirement, whether they're in an assisting living community or they're just in a in a in a mobile home community, wherever they are, it has them where they are on purpose for a purpose. Even if they had to go back to work as a retiree, how do you do it? What does it look like? Um, because some people had to go back to work just to pay their health insurance for crying out loud. But how do you do that with intentionality and to embrace it as a ministry opportunity? And then thirdly, thirdly, and this is kind of fun. So, Darren, you know, you you've heard it, well, you've experienced this, but we had interviewed about 500 women on the radio program, uh, Christian working women. We reached out to them and said, Listen, we want you to share your story. Would you be willing to be part of this project? And much to your happiness, not all 500 of them responded, Darren. 40 of them responded to a lot of value. 40 of them responded, and 19 of them wrote chapters in She Works for him, which I'll let Martha explain in a minute. But what was really cool is that we just wanted to honor Christian working women and give them a resource to hear people's other Christian working women's stories. And we reached out to the 19 that said, yes, I'll write a chapter. And we said, listen, just share an experience from your life as a Christian working woman. Something that you would like other women to experience. And we just all we did was give them that. We didn't tell them what to write about, we didn't assign topics, and all 19 wrote about something different. And that was really cool.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So in She Works for Him, the subtitle is Embrace Your Calling as a Christian Woman at Work. And really, each of the women in the different chapters shared something from their experience, something that God has taught them, um, something that either humbled them or encouraged them or challenged them, whatever it might be. I know that there is value in reading that ourselves and learning from it. And at the end of every chapter, there are questions to kind of help digest it and to take it and make it personal. And so that can be done personally. It can be done in groups with friends, um, however. But I have found that that's a really helpful way when I'm reading something to kind of go, okay, what did I just hear? What is it that I can take from this? And I think as women, we sometimes need that extra permission to do that. So she works for him again, very collaborative, a lot of different um, sometimes just workplaces, not necessarily ministries. We're just talking to the everyday Christian working woman and that something in her experience is going to help um others to embrace their calling. And then providing resources, much like the other ones. Um, we don't have my dad's stories in there. We left it up to the women to do that, and she works for him. So all three of those books, um, very collaborative. We have a total of over 50 contributors between all of them. And um, we're really excited to be rolling that.
SPEAKER_03Hybrid books said, that'll never work. That's impossible. But not only did it work because guy was at the center of it, but we were able to get all their voices on the audiobooks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So different books, which that was not easy, but it was fun. It was fun.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, I know our listeners love audio, so you can get an audio version of each of these books over at uh Audible or iTunes. So everybody go get your get your copy. Um, certainly wonderful uh kind of um lay the land for what's happening in the faith and work movement, like we've been talking about on this episode. So anybody that's serious about being involved with what God's doing in the workplace or or you're just you're just curious, uh, go check these out. Jim and Martha, what do you want uh people to do as a result of listening to this interview today?
SPEAKER_04Well, you know, I hope for some people that they that they are they're thinking about their own selves and reflecting and saying, you know, I don't, I'm not maybe living out my faith in my work. They keep talking about that, and I don't really grasp that. Um, I would hope, I'm thinking about what we have, and we've listed it out in all of our books, is that I work for him nation, which is um a commitment that you make to really just say, Lord, I'm gonna pray for my coworkers and employees every day. I'm gonna work with excellence, I'm gonna befriend my coworkers and employees and be there for them in their time of need. Uh, so it really walks people through that process, and that's on our website, iWorkforhim.com, and they can find the join the nation. And just I would think that that would be a great next step for people that are saying, you know, I want I want this momentum they're talking about in my own work. And that would be a great next step, and we can cheer you through that process.
SPEAKER_03And I've got three points because I grew up Baptist. I got so number number one is to realize as a believer, you even though you're not a pastor or a missionary, your ranking in the kingdom is not second tier. As a as a workplace believer, your work and your mission is just as important as that of a pastor or a missionary. And so don't look at yourself and don't ever think these words. This is from the enemy's heart. If you've ever had the thoughts, I'm just gonna quit my job and go into full-time ministry, that is the work of the enemy. Because if we all quit our jobs and went to work in the ministry, that means the enemy would have free reign in the marketplace or in the workplaces of America. You are desperately needed. This is my second point. You are desperately needed where you are. Your workplace is your mission field. And in that mission field, you may be the only Jesus your coworkers or employees may ever meet. And thirdly, to recognize that because you may be alone in your small business, or because you may be one of a few people, it is important to surround yourself with other workplace believers and seek the Lord together in learning and holding each other accountable. What does it look like to live out your faith in your work? Don't try to do this on your own. Try to find others, get in community with them, access some of these ministries that we highlight, resources like theology of business, or maybe in your marketing, you need a book, marketing like Jesus, or maybe you're a marketplace Christian, you could get a book like Marketplace Christian and do a spiritual gift analysis on where are your spiritual gifts as you're out there in your workplace. There's so many resources out there. Get access to them, dig deep. Darren, here's something I found that's been very disturbing. I had the privilege of uh some seven kids from Northwest University in Johannesburg, South Africa, reached out to me about four, six weeks ago.
SPEAKER_02I sent them to you.
SPEAKER_03You sent them to me? Yeah. Really?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because they were they were saying we just want to know more, and and we got your name. So I didn't know that, Darren. I thank you. And I had an hour and a half long conversation with these these young people. They're all they're like, what does it look like? What is it gonna look like when we graduate? And Johannesburg, South Africa, South Africa's a mess right now, um, because of socialism. But I I just I spoke those that truth into them. But here's the most disturbing thing that came out of the conversation. All seven of them believers, all passionate about living out their faith in the work. And I asked them because of the answers they were giving me, it was it was very frustrating. I said, How many of you have read your Bible from cover to cover? Not one of them could raise their hand. Not one of them recognized the fact that Jesus, as our Savior, was a small business owner and ran a family business. But that that most people don't know that. Most people don't think about that because they don't get preached that. But not one of them read their Bible from cover to cover. If we're gonna understand the God we serve, we need to read the words He's written over the last 50 over a few.
SPEAKER_04And you encouraged them to do that. But I did, I did.
SPEAKER_03But over a period of 1500 years, God used 43 authors from three countries to write the 66 books of the Bible. You gotta read it to understand that the Lord we serve. And too many believers, the ones listening to this show and the ones out there across the workplaces of America, have done they don't even they don't even know what the Bible says.
SPEAKER_01Well, my kids are in VBS vacation Bible school right now, and they're the theme of their um their VBS is dig in. So dig into the word, everybody. Jim and Martha, thank you for your time. Thank you for your heart, for uh the kingdom, for the marketplace, uh, the workplace, and and of all spheres and your heart for people. Appreciate your friendship. And um, everybody go get these books. I work for him, she works for him, I retire for him. Go to iWorkforhim.com. Appreciate y'all. Thanks, Darren.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you would leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about HBU Center for Christianity and Business at Christianityandbusiness.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your book.