Welcome back to the Christianity and Business Podcast, an initiative of the RTW Dunham College of Business at Houston Baptist University. I'm your host, Darren Shearett, and this is the show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. On this episode, we're joined by Ted Schimmer. Ted is the founder of The Freedom Fight, an online porn addiction recovery program. Ted has mentored men since 1991 with the Collegiate Ministry Student Mobilization. He received his Master of Biblical Studies from Dallas Seminary and was trained as a pastoral sex addiction professional supervisor. Ted has helped people overcome the bondage of pornography in the context of making disciples. And he's the author of the new book, The Freedom Fight, The New Drug, and the Truths That Set Us Free. I know you listeners probably didn't see this episode coming on a show called Christianity and Business, but this is a topic that we really need to deal with as marketplace Christians. Um it's a pandemic. I mean, we're in the middle of a global pandemic, COVID-19, but this is another kind of pandemic that that is uh even more insidious in a lot of ways. It's destroying individuals, families, companies, and even society as a whole. And I know of no greater expert on helping people to get delivered from this than Ted Schimmer. Ted, welcome to the show. Hey, Darren. It's good to be here. Thanks for having me on. Ted, what percentage of people are addicted to pornography right now?
SPEAKER_02Well, that's a good question. And, you know, there'd been a lot of you know surveys. The Barna group uh a few years ago did a survey and found that uh the monthly porn habit for a Christian man, 64%, um, was only 1% different than the monthly porn habit for the non-Christian man at 65%. Um, one of the things about the statistics that um you know the younger generation, it's even more. Um, you know, and so the pattern is the younger that a Christian is, the higher the percentage. We we did a study study with the freedom fight in 2019 with over 1,300 college students uh from over 40 different campuses across the country. And these weren't just your you know your typical you know college students, but these were growing Christians who said their faith in Jesus Christ was very important to them. They were plugged into a campus ministry, and nearly half of this group were in some type of Christian leadership uh in their collegiate ministry. And so of this group of growing Christians, 89% of the men said that they had used pornography in the last 12 months. 63% of this group used it weekly or more. 24% of that group used it on a daily basis or multiple times a day. And 51% of that group said they were addicted to porn. And so if you think about it, this is our next group of you know, Christian leaders, Christian parents, Christian business owners. Um that and so the younger the age, the more likely they are to use porn, and the more likely they are to be addicted.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and maybe another way of saying is the more time we spend on our cell phones, the more likely we are to be addicted. Because obviously the younger you are, probably the more time you're spending. I know some older folks that are addicted to smartphones just as much as younger folks, but certainly younger folks are spending a whole lot of time on that, on that smartphone. And and the temptation is is just everywhere, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. And that and that's really the key, Darren, is private access. Yeah, because that's that's when uh an addiction is birthed, when somebody has private access to you know pornography. And and what we're talking about isn't just, you know, it's much different than it was back in the 90s or before, you know, the internet. Uh it's not just you know, magazines or you know, even before 06, most of the pornography on the internet was were were photographs because you know, all they had was dial-up and it took forever. So most people weren't watching videos. But after high-speed internet and then high-speed internet to the phone, you know, the the potential to watch an endless buffet of you know hardcore porn is now available to anybody that has, you know, a smartphone. And so that's what we're seeing on the college campus is each year the level of addiction with the freshmen that come in gets deeper, uh, you know, and the amount of people, it just gets broader.
SPEAKER_01So, how does pornography addiction affect marketplace Christians and companies in in particular?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and you know, and I think that's a great question. And you know, because the uh an addiction, man, impacts a person, you know, in a number of ways, particularly for a Christian who struggles with a pornography addiction. Uh, you know, all of the surveys that have been done, you know, tell us that a person who uses porn is more likely to be depressed, they're more lonely, they're much more likely to have marital issues, they're much more likely, of course, uh to watch pornography at work. Um and so you take all of those factors. You know, I was I was visiting uh with a chaplain of a uh a national uh you know business, and he was talking about, man, just the number of people they've had to fire because they were watching porn at work. You know, they knew they shouldn't be doing it, but man, an addiction makes people do risky things, and actually, risk adds adrenaline to the dopamine high that people begin to chase. And um, and so he was just talking about it's like, man, we've we had to fire this guy that had 25 years of experience. And it's like, you know, to hire a new person that has that kind of you know of experience. So as a business, they were looking at man, the impact on marriages and the impact on productivity. It's like, hey, if we can help our people, you know, win at home by overcoming this addiction, man, it's gonna help the company.
SPEAKER_01Um, you know, and just that that business owners, managers are becoming more focused on where they're I mean, like, how are they finding out? Is it coworkers are reporting this or that they have um software on all the company computers that it will flag when certain sites are visited?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and you know, and that's a great question. I and I wouldn't have you know a ton of experience in this particular instance, it was the IT department. Um, you know, they were they have a policy about no porn, and you know, their IT department, you know, flagged it, and you know, the people were reported and and dismissed. And um, and the thing is, is they knew they were being monitored, and yet, you know, people who have an addiction do risky things, and um, but it it did alert them enough, you know, to actually, you know, have a meeting with me that, hey, this is becoming a bigger and bigger issue. And hey, how can we help our people? Because if a person is struggling in their marriage, um, that's gonna impact their productivity, their their focus, uh, you know, and all of those things, um, you know, you know, aside from the fact that they were, you know, losing some veteran workers, um, yeah, just kind of that holistic piece of you know, really, you know, investing in you know in their employees.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So if I've got uh a drug addict working in my company and I've got a porn addict working in my company, both are equally as uh deep into their addiction as as the other. I mean, is there I mean, are they is is that apples to apples comparison or in terms of it's like nobody's gonna let uh a drug addict operate heavy machinery. You know, yeah. What about is is porn addiction that severe when it comes to even like safety and productivity issues, things like that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and you know, and it would be different just gonna from a uh you know impairment of motor skills. Obviously, somebody you know who's on you know alcohol or some you know drug is gonna have that factor. But it but Darren, it really man, it it impacts the person's brain uh in the in the same way. The same dopamine high that the cocaine addict is chasing, that's the same dopamine high that the porn addict begins to chase. And so it, you know, the and the thing about you know pornography, the a side effect it would have, a porn addiction, is you know, people who use porn, a married couple who uses porn, either the husband or wife, are 318% more likely to commit adultery than those who don't. And so a somebody who's addicted to porn, the chances that they're gonna, you know, have a have an affair at work go way up. Um and so, you know, so from that that vantage point, uh man, that that addiction would be, you know, you know, having an impact at work, you know, from you know, from that angle.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah, I mean, in in the military, it's against the law to to be unfaithful to your spouse. Um as far as I know, it's not against the law to to look at porn. But I mean, really, that's that's where it goes, right? I mean, it's so many of the other uh symptomatic uh things going on in society, like you know, you think about like the human trafficking uh epidemic. I mean, so much of the the underpinnings of that is the it's the demand that gets created by this porn industry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. And yeah, and I think that's yeah, and an important point that um, you know, there was a a study done by a sociology professor at OU named Dr. Samuel Perry, and you know, he looked at 3,000 people over a six-year period of time and the impact of pornography on them and their marriages. And what he found is if either the husband or wife was using porn, they were two or three times more likely to divorce over the next two years than the porn-free couple. Because when somebody's using porn, they're they're training themselves to want new and different sexual partners. And you know, and so you know, when we give a kid that's 13 a smartphone, that that's that's how his brain has been wired. You know, they've done studies that when somebody's watching porn and they watch the same clip for a while, they begin to grow bored, and so the dopamine levels begin to fall. They go to a new clip, boom, goes back up. They get bored, and so they're training themselves new and different, new and different, and then boom, they get married, and it's like, oh, it's one. Um, and so the discontent um, you know, that man that can bring, and then yeah, just the the infidelity that you know pornography just kind of cultivates in the heart, um, you know, is damaging, you know, in all all aspects, you know, the home, the church, the business, you know, society in general.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So how do how can we defeat pornography addiction on a personal level and on a kind of a broader societal level?
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, and that's a you know, that's a huge question. One of one of the reasons why I wrote my book is just, you know, I think there's an educational piece to what you you said that, man, do parents really understand when they give their kid a smartphone at you know 12 or 13, what they're introducing their their child to? Uh and so I think education and just man, the dangers of porn, the pervasiveness, um, the addictiveness of it. Uh the the other side of your question related to the freedom part for somebody who actually is addicted. You know, one of the things that we've identified are man, the six roots of a pornography addiction that have to be addressed for somebody to break free. Um and you know, one of the things that you know we talk about is somebody doesn't just quit a porn habit or addiction, but they have to outgrow it, meaning they have to grow and develop in certain areas of their life in order, you know, to establish freedom for the long haul. Um and you know, one one thing that you know, addressing a porn addiction, it's not just, hey, we got to deal with this problem, but it's also really an incredible opportunity and to help people grow and develop and see them really reach their potential. Um, and really that's what we've seen because it really does take growth uh you know to overcome a pornography addiction. And, you know, as one example, you know, uh the addiction experts tell us that an addiction really goes deep in a person's life when they start using their addictive substance, that dopamine high, to medicate the negative emotions in their life. And so when somebody starts using, you know, porn or alcohol to medicate the stress or anxiety, man, then that emotion becomes the trigger. And so dopamine is not just released when we experience pleasure, you know, something enjoyable that our brain wants us to remember and repeat, but it's also released in the anticipation of pleasure. And so, man, when a person experiences that negative emotion that they have so often run, you know, they've run to porn to medicate, then man, that stress or anxiety and causes the brain to release dopamine to start the craving. You know, the brain moves into relief mode. Hey, I know where we can go and to feel a whole lot better. Um so when a person, you know, so one of one of the roots of addiction are negative emotions and learning to handle those. Uh, and so a person must grow in self-awareness and emotional intelligence, uh, you know, in order, you know, to overcome a porn addiction. And so that's why we created an app where people check in on a daily basis. Um and you know, it's really been incredible to just uh you know, see guys start man naming the emotion, you know, hey, what's the source of the emotion? Man, how does this you know leading me to go use porn? Um, you know, but man, at the end of end of our program, the the emotional intelligence is just at a whole new level. Um, you know, the confidence to be able to, you know, communicate about you know emotion, their awareness of others' emotions. And then, you know, when we all know that, man, a person who has emotional intelligence, they're better leaders, you know, they're better in relationships. Uh, and so, you know, helping people overcome, you know, a pornography addiction, man, it really is an incredible way to grow and develop people in key areas of life that man have benefits, you know, far beyond just walking in freedom.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well what are some of those other aha moments that the that the folks have when they go through the program that really makes the difference?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. You know, one one would be, you know, another route is isolation. That, you know, you know, people who don't have you know deep relationship, authentic relationships in real life are extra drawn to the fake intimacy of pornography, because really porn is fake intimacy. You know, you you can go to a you know, pornography is a place a person can go to always be accepted, to be validated, to be desired. And when a person doesn't have you know deep relationships with God and others, the the pull of the fake intimacy of porn becomes greater. Um, and so one of the one of the things that, you know, again, outgrowing porn is developing, man, authentic, vulnerable relationships. And so, you know, people learning to to be honest and open, uh, instead of because you know, when somebody has a pornography habit, they learn to keep secrets and they're you know kind of they got this wall up. And um, and so the the ability to connect and relate with people, again, just goes to a whole new level, which you know, again, as we you know think about your audience and man the the Christian you know business place, um man, employees who man can connect and relate with people at a higher level, that that's good for business. And you know, and it's just just that that relational, you know, connect. And you know, another another one that you know is significant is shame. Um, you know, there's shame in any addiction, but particularly for the Christian who struggles with a porn or a sex addiction, the shame is you know off the charts. And that's one of the saddest things that I've seen there in related to uh you know a pornography addiction, is and somebody who's a child of the king, instead of living out of that identity, they live out of a shame identity. Um and it and it really becomes this vicious cycle that you know it becomes this negative emotion that they feel compelled to medicate with porn. And when they do that, the shame comes back even more, and it's this, you know, this vicious cycle. And so really helping people uh learn to live out of their identity in Christ, um, and just you know, the different practical ways that that manifests itself, and uh and you know, some of the ways that we've we've you know seen that it's like, man, when somebody is leaving out of their identity in Christ, their confidence goes to a whole new level, their vulnerability, their willingness to take risk because hey, they're their their identity and significance isn't wrapped up in other people's opinion or in their success or failure. So they're more freed up to man take risk and step out. And so again, they just they become better leaders um because you know, and you know, another they're just more self-differentiated in the sense that hey, if they get feedback that's negative, they don't get all defensive about it because once again, their identity isn't wrapped up, you know, in others' opinion, or it's like, hey, yeah, yeah, I want to get better. And um, and so anyway, we we've seen yeah, just a number of benefits as as people because they have to outgrow a porn habit that man, when they do, they're just you know much, you know, much deeper and more effective and productive on a number of these, you know, areas.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Ted, how'd you become so passionate about this issue?
SPEAKER_02Um, you know, it was really kind of birth, you know, the the ministry that I've been a part of, student mobilization, uh, you know, back in the early 2000s, we started, you know, noticing that more and more of our student leaders were kind of being disqualified from leadership because they they struggled with a porn addiction. And so so much so that in 07 we identified as a ministry um that man, if if somebody you know struggles with pornography, that was the biggest thing that was keeping them you know from spiritual leadership and really reaching their potential in Christ. And so we identified it as hey, this is our the biggest obstacle to our mission of building spiritual leaders for Christ. And uh, because we recognize if we're trying to make disciples and yet we're not addressing this core issue, then man, there's a huge hole in our discipleship. And um, and again, I you know, you know, I'm not on you know, some you know, social warrior on, hey, we need to get rid of the ills of porn, although I believe that 100%. It's man, we we have an incredible opportunity in the context of building spiritual leaders for Christ to man address an issue that a lot of people aren't addressing. Uh man, with the truths of God's word and man, just the benefits that we have seen, you know, have really been incredible. Because when somebody breaks free from a you know porn habit and they're just man, you know, walking in their identity in Christ, more emotionally intelligent, more vulnerable, having vulnerable relationships, you know, a deeper, you know, commitment to walking in holiness and you know, and just all the things that you know come from that, um, you know, have you know, just kind of deepened my conviction that hey, this is an issue that needs to be addressed because of the negatives, but and it's also an incredible opportunity for the kingdom.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I mean, discipleship is is so lacking in our culture, in our churches and society today. And and a lot of it just comes down to we don't want to be accountable to anybody. And accountability, as you were talking about, is such a big part of this. One of the things I started doing probably 10 years ago is there there are programs like X3 Watch and Ever Accountable, where I mean, if you don't have some sort of accountability for where you're going on the internet, I mean, I don't know how you can uh stay stay pure out there. Um I installed this um X3 before when it was just on before I had a mobile phone, but now with the mobile phone, ever accountable is what I've been using. So my wife gets a report. And I've had before I got married, it was uh, you know, another brother in Christ that would get the report. So if I was going searching for anything or going to certain places or installing apps and deleting apps to, you know, remove traces, things like that, they would get a report of that. And and so I continue that uh today. And so I mean, traveling business people, I mean, it's you may feel secure in your holiness when you're at home, your environment's controlled, but you go travel. Not only, you know, notoriously we kind of let our diets go when we're on the road, I think other things kind of slip as well, you know, especially in this area of of pornography. And so what are some of the practical tips, tools people can implement today to help increase the level of accountability? I mean, there's this there's this movement toward um, you know, protect your privacy and go get these, um only use these browsers that don't track what you're doing online. Like that's exactly the problem that that and it makes me wonder like how much of the popularity of that movement is actually so people can hide their pornography addiction. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, that's that that's absolutely it.
SPEAKER_01And um yeah, I remember people talk about like, oh, it's I don't want the government watching what I'm no, you don't want your wife to see what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Yeah, that's yeah, I remember when that that came out and yeah, that that was, you know, and one of the things I saw with you know, the guy was actually being honest about hey, you don't have to worry about you know, people checking your porn history and you know, that kind of thing. But you know, and I think from man, just uh you know, a couple of practical tips. One, uh, you know, James 5.16 tells us that therefore confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed. Is that man, there's so many, again, because of the shame, so many Christians that are just in the shadows, they've never told anybody. And man, just as a first step out of the shadows, just man, and the first step towards healing is confessing to a trusted, you know, brother or sister in Christ, a mentor or a pastor, um, just to get it out in the open. Because uh, because of the shame, the nature of sin is deceitful, the nature of our hearts is deceitful. In this area, we have rationalized, minimized, and denied, you know, so many aspects of this that um, you know, we tell ourselves it's not as bad as, you know, you know, what others are doing and you know, all kinds of things. So, man, just confessing it, I think is important. You know, one of the things that we created uh really at the beginning of the pandemic was a 30-day challenge on our uh program, and it's all our program, our six-month program is free. The 30-day challenge is free. Uh, but it's an email-based program that when you sign up for 30 days, you get um either a video or a short piece of content, a verse that is on this topic that just unpacks principles of recovery. And man, I would encourage you, you know, go through that yourself, ask an accountability partner, go through it with a small group, just like, hey, for the next 30 days, let's do this 30-day challenge. And you know, we have the discussion questions and and all that, but it would at least give you a taste and just you know help you. I had a uh a guy recently, just this earlier this week, he's like, hey, I'm gonna ask these guys and that have been in this Bible study, hey, let's do the 30-day challenge for a week. And it provided you know the natural opportunity to talk about a topic that most Christians shy away from. And so it was just kind of a uh a natural step. And so those would be you know two practical two practical steps. Uh man, finding someone to confess, man to start the process of healing, and then you know, check out that that 30-day challenge. And um, then you know, obviously, you know, once you finish that, it's like, hey, you know, and we have a a six-month program that you can check out as well.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. And people can get that at thefreedomfight.com. And they can also get the book, The Freedom Fight. The subtitle is The New Drug and the Truths That Set Us Free. You can get that paperback, ebook, audio book. Full disclosure, um, my company, Hybridge Books, got the the privilege of being able to publish this this important book. Um, and I just so believe in this this message. I've been working with um Christian men for a long time. And this is um this is one of the issues that that we have to confront head on and and not just let it kind of uh remain in the in the shadows where we just stay bound up in in shame and and um and maybe just feeling like, oh, you know, personal holiness isn't isn't my job. That's my pastor's job. Like if I if I really needed to be serious about this, like like my pastor gets paid to be holy, you know. And by the way, you know, the the statistics probably aren't all that different for pastors that have porn addiction, um, compared to those uh those other professing Christians, sadly. Um in fact that's that's been found to be true based on um the the records of of pay-per-view and hotels and things like that when there's pastors' conferences, like it skyrockets, right? Um so so this is something that's affecting all of us, especially in the middle of this pandemic, where we're uh we're more isolated and more reliant on computers to to connect. And ironically, you know, sadly, it I think has driven many of us deeper into that that hole of of addiction. And so Ted and his ministry are are here to help. Everyone go to thefreedomfight.com. Um, Ted, any um parting of advice you want to leave with our listeners today?
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, and I appreciate you having me on, Darren. And yeah, the the freedomfight.org, O R.org. Um yeah, they can, you know, check out, you know, either one of our programs, all free. You know, of course, have the book uh there. And one thing I would say just that, you know, part of my reason for writing the book was one, just kind of the educational piece, because people need to realize that there is a tsunami coming because this younger generation has had more porn consumption than any before it. And you know, we know from addiction research that the adolescent brain is just much more addictive, much more moldable and susceptible to addictive substances. And so it's like, man, if if we as you know followers of Christ don't get ready for what's coming, because when this you know younger group grows up to become the business owners, the the pastors, the leaders, the parents, um, man, if if we're not equipped to help them walk in freedom, um, man, the the devastation will be massive. And so I would just encourage people who find themselves, you know, not to don't just choose freedom for yourself, but choose it, you know, obviously for the Lord, uh, but also for this next generation that is gonna need some people to help lead them to freedom as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And business owners and managers have uh a responsibility in that, you know, don't just expect that your pastor, I mean, your pastor is not reaching those people. Like your pastor is reaching church people, but exactly the people in the culture that are they're not going to church, but they're going to work. And who's gonna be there to um to help them deal with with these things if if not for marketplace Christians? And and of course, we got to be free ourselves.
SPEAKER_02So you know what one thing I would add real quick, Darren, on that. Uh, you know, I would encourage, you know, just as a step, um, you know, to send out a link to that 30-day challenge, but to your employees, like, hey, if anybody struggles with, you know, a pornography addiction, hey, this is something you could check out. Uh, you know, because you know, people aren't gonna admit it, but if you give them an anonymous way to find help, um, you know, you're gonna help people. You may never know it uh until you know a year later when they tell you that now they're free. But um anyway, that yeah, that would that would be uh an easy way for a business owner just to you know give an opportunity for people to find anonymous help because you know if they have to walk through a door in public, they're not gonna come.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Great point. The freedomfight.com uh dot org. I think both of them will get you the same place, the freedomfight.org. Uh get there, go sign up. Ted, thanks for your time. Thanks for your ministry. Appreciate you.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Thanks for having me on, Darren. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you would leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about the HBU Center for Christianity and Business at Christianityandbusiness.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your business.