Welcome back to the Christianity and Business Podcast, an initiative of the RTW Dunham College of Business at Houston Baptist University. I'm your host, Darren Sheer, and this is the show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. On this episode, we're joined by Becky Turner. Becky is the national managing partner for the Barnabas Group, which provides opportunities to support Christian nonprofit organizations with their God-given expertise and skill sets. She's also the president and founder of KBT Consulting and serves women in life coaching and nonprofits in strategic planning and development. Becky, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_02Hey, Darren. Glad to be here. Thanks so much.
SPEAKER_00So this is a topic we haven't covered on the show. Tell us why was the Barnabas Group founded?
SPEAKER_02The Barnabas Group was founded in 1999 by um two great guys, Jim West and Bob Shank, and it came about uh through an organization called the Master's Program. And the Master's Program is a three-year program where marketplace leaders are taking through a process to determine clarity, uh, margin, and um clarity margin and balance. Because most people, men and women, get about halfway in their lives, especially those that are hard drivers, you know, type A's, they get to 35, 40 years old and they're like, I'm successful now. What? And so the master's program helps the men and the women go from success to significance. Well, this guy got out in 1999, the first class, and they're like, okay, we're ready. How do what do we do now? And they said, well, let's just see, let's just, Bob and Jim said, let's just vet some ministries, parachurch ministries that might have some business needs and see if we can come alongside and help them. And so in 1999, a group of 12 guys sat around a table in Orange County, California and said, Here's a few ministries. Do you know anybody that can help them in these key areas? And that's how we started in 1999.
SPEAKER_00And you were one of the first uh the first members uh at one of those round tables. What how did you come to the table?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so and I actually came kind of through the back door. Uh so in uh in 2007, 2008, uh the Orange County chapter, uh as the master's program went to other locations, they have the same problem. So Barnabas Group started following the master's program to other locations and they opened the chapter in 2008 in Houston. And believe it or not, I was actually one of the very first presenting ministries. I was the executive director for maternity home life house, which is located in South Houston, and I presented in November of that year, and um, and then through a series of things, uh, they contacted me the following summer and said, Becky, hey, would you be willing to come help us build Barnabas in Houston? So that's how I got to be a part of it in the Barnabas Houston. And we took that and opened up two more locations, so three locations there at the same time, about it two years into it, Dallas called and said, Hey, can we launch a chapter in Dallas? And I'm like, sure, why not? Let's figure out how to do that. So we launched the one in Dallas to follow up the master's program there. And then four years ago, uh Bob Shank uh came to me and said, uh, hey Beck, would you be interested to be the national managing partner? So um I have been a part of Barnabas since really 2009, I guess, is when the first time I engaged. And um it's been a real blessing and I love being a part of it. So um I've got the privilege to travel around the nation pre-COVID and uh meet with a lot of great people and talk about Barnabas. Now I just do it, you know, from my living room.
SPEAKER_00So yeah. And so there are organizations like the National Christian Foundation and and other foundations that that help to kind of um present opportunities for giving, financial giving. Is it safe to say that Barnabas Group is kind of like a foundation uh for volunteerism in a sense?
SPEAKER_02Exactly. That might and the National Christian Foundation is a great partner organization of ours because many of the people that come there um have gotten to the point in their life where they have high capacity both in time and finances and talent, because they probably didn't get the finances if it wasn't for a good skill level talent. And so they um so what we National Christian Foundation says, how is the best way to invest your money, both you know, long term as well as in uh the ministries that you want to support? But then so we come along and say, how do you use those talents? The things that actually the world has probably made you an expert in. They've taught you in, you know, whether it's Exxon or you know, any other corporation has actually paid for you to get better at accounting and finance and marketing and leadership and strategic planning and all those things. Um, and now how do you take those talents and make it uh help advance other help ministries advance the gospel? And so we help that partnership that connects between that parachurch ministry that has the specific business need and um the local marketplace leader.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I'm I'm thinking about on, for example, Facebook on Giving Tuesday, they're like countless drives, fundraising drives to raise money for these nonprofits. It seems like there are nonprofits with needs everywhere we look. Why why should people go through the Barnabas group to find out about even more needs? What is the the real value add there?
SPEAKER_02Well, the really value add is for that marketplace leader. Um, I believe, and I'm not a theologian, so there's probably a whole lot of other people at HBU that could speak into this, but I believe we're gonna be held accountable for everything the Lord gave us: our time, our talent, our sphere of influence, as well as our finances. And oftentimes we think, well, it's just our finances, you know, be a good steward. When we think that, we think money. But man, I need to be a good steward of every talent, favor, you know, opportunity God has given me. And so the value add to the marketplace leader is that I can then take these very things and I can help this ministry advance the gospel even faster. A perfect example, and I think I've actually have never seen it so evident in talking about the the yoke is easy and the burden is light, is when I sit down with an executive director, and across from me is that executive director and a CFO for a corporation. And that executive director for a homeless ministry, he's looking at financial statements that he gets from his bookkeeper and his CPA, and he has no idea what any of the numbers mean, and it doesn't matter. He doesn't, he's like, oh, it's red. So that must be, these are Jesus' words, so it must be right, right? It must be good if it's in red, right? No, I mean the red is not good. And um, and so here, meanwhile, I got a CFO who looks at multimillion dollar PLs and multi-sheets, and he understands it. I take those two guys to lunch, and the executive director is like, hey, will you relieve this burden from me by telling me what these numbers are? And the CFO said, This is easy. Look at these two numbers every month, and if they're below this, then call me. The burden is easy, the yoke is easy and the burden is light because we've shared that, and it's taken something off the executive director that he he can now go do ministry, and that marketplace leader can continue to do marketplace leader stuff, but his talents is being used to you know uh exploit, it's being exploited with the ministry. So that's kind of how it works and why it's a value that you you're mindful of those very things.
SPEAKER_00Right. But if I look on those all of those fundraising drives that are coming at me on on Facebook on Giving Tuesday, couldn't I just reach out and say, hey, how about I use my skill sets? Is is the but the Barnabas group is vetting to make sure that this is a legit nonprofit, which is easier said than done, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, of course, you can do that. Um, you know, but it's the same thing, you know, I can mow my lawn, but my per hour cost of you know doing other things is much higher return than me paying somebody $140 a month to mow my lawn. And so it just is for efficiency purposes. Let's take advantage of the leverage that we can bring as an organization to vet multiple ministries across the nation, bring them, showcase them, have gone through and said their finances are solid or they know they're not solid. And so they need a CPA to come alongside and help them. Uh, they are Christ-centered. What they're doing is advancing the gospel either uh as evangelism or discipleship. And number three, they have a need that money really can't solve. And I think that's always the big thing because we spend a lot of time pre-presentation, pre-meeting, pre-showcasing to dig deep into that executive director's mindset and their ministry to find out what's the problem we have because most ministries think if I had more money, I could solve my problems. And that I think, I think in the government we think that, right? If we throw enough money at something, it's gonna fix the problem. We know that's wrong. We have to throw the enough money at the right problems and at the right solution to fix those problems. And so Barnabas comes alongside and does all that work. So when you show up for you know, a two-hour breakfast in Houston or a five hour, you know, event in the Bay Area, it just depends on each chapter does it differently. You show up, you know, there's gonna be two, three, four, five ministries that I know are good, solid, and I can say thumbs up, thumbs down, I can say I can help. I know somebody, and then I can go about doing my thing. And it's worth them, you know, the membership investment to make that happen.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Are you starting to get some stories now in the middle of this this COVID pandemic? I mean, obviously, nonprofits are are getting hit as hard or or harder than most organizations. Um what are what are there any kind of positive stories of how these business people are helping the nonprofits keep stay afloat in the middle of all this?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think part of it, we actually did this. Uh different chapters did different things. Our chapter in the Bayer in the Sacramento area did, I mean, they called it, they called it a COVID emergency ideation session. And so I think it was six different uh ministries over about a four-week period that spent about three hours on the phone, on a Zoom with five to eight business leaders saying, How do I respond to COVID? Both organizationally, how do I respond? Do I do I fire everybody and you know, and they go get unemployment because they'll make more money on employment than they do working for me? Do I do PPE? Do I cut half my staff? How do I continue doing so just HR kind of related questions on that? Some of them came on and asked, um, you know, how do I, I'm this one organization works specifically in the Southeast, uh Southeast Asia. How do I continue to minister over there? And this, what are some things that I can do? And they could strategize, and and I, and that was one of the key things that came up. They came out of it of how you can systematically go about continue doing your training, and they helped them figure that out, you know, and some of it was like we do this in business all the time, like Zoom to a lot of people and even a lot of ministries that you couldn't even spell Zoom before March 15th. But now we're all experts on Zoom. And how do we use that, you know, either a free base or others that we continue to use that technology? So those were things that just immediately we can we could come along because we were already established, already had a group of marketplace leaders that already had trusted us, and they reached out and um and really made a difference in those organizations.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And what level of commitment of time are you looking for from these uh from these members?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so um it's it's really, you know, um, as you desire, it's totally up to their choice of what it is. Um, if I have one partner that I can think of up in the woodlands, um, I don't know if Dave, he was involved in some ideation sessions, but for the most part, he comes to the meetings. But the man is like a walking Rolodex. And whenever a situation came up, he's like, Oh, I know somebody who can help with that. And sometimes they're believers, sometimes they're not believers, but they were people that were in that industry that had a specific need that this ministry was looking for. And Dave would send an email nine times out of ten, sitting there at the meeting, pull out his phone, send an email, connect the executive director to um to that other person that is can help with that need. And we have seen arenas being built, you know, at a sex trafficking home, you know, recovery home. We I I saw um clear uh one place was a concrete, I can't remember what the story was on that, but I know of the concrete guy that he helped him solve with the concrete guy. And then another one was in marketing and and and just said, Hey, I need some help with social media. And the guy came and said, Hey, connect these two. So for so for Dave, it's just coming and having breakfast at the woodlands once a quarter for a couple of hours. Meanwhile, I have other ones that I know that they've gotten on a plane and flown to Romania to spend two weeks in an orphanage to um hear about what they're doing there and plugging in um and giving their time and their talent to help build that orphanage to the next point. And some of it is actually it is money. I have one one you know story that is maybe for another time, but someone was gonna make, I think, a $20, $20,000 gift and ended up making like a $200,000 gift, but it changed your life for good, and it was wonderful. Um, so your level of investment is completely up to what your engagement is. And then there are times that people hear of a situation, they go get plugged into that organization, um, help them with that situation, and then they're like, they are then they're like with these people forever. They're like, this is my ministry. I'm gonna dedicate the next five years of my life helping them on the board, helping them strategically, helping them fundraising, whatever the situation might be. And they walk away from Barnabas. And I feel like we've we haven't lost a partner, we've done our job. Because my heart is a national managing partner is when we get to glory, uh, there's nobody, no marketplace leader that's gonna stand before the Lord and say, I didn't know how to use my talents, you know, because I can say, Well, we were here, we were here, and I want to make sure everybody knows that we're doing that so they can actually use their talents for great glory for God and for their own good. Um, and in many ways, it's so much more than money. That's what I think. Because it's using what you're passionate about. I mean, if you've done a career in it for 20 or 30 years, most of the time you're passionate about that industry. You like it, you've got a good experience, it's easy for you to do. Meanwhile, you come alongside that executive director who they don't need to know how to, you know, figure out how to do an HR policy manual. You come along, help them do that. And uh wow, what a difference that can make for the kingdom in that area.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So, how do you exhort these Christian business professionals to serve these nonprofits without downplaying the potential eternal value of the work they do in the for-profit business world? Because that's a tension that I that I find from you know listening to my um pastor talk about the need to volunteer. It it's almost as if the work you do in your nine to five job doesn't really have the because I mean a lot of um I mean a lot of companies are are doing a lot of great work just right there, like the CEOs are doing a lot of great work right there to care for their own employees.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So how do you how do you talk about that in a way that's that's not sort of uh you know, a mutually exclusive sort of thing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. And that's a great question. And how we usually address it is um we believe one of the greatest lies in the late 20th century into the 21st century is that there's a secular, sacred divide, that that there is a there's a division between what we do Monday through Friday or you know, even a stay-at-home mom, that that is not a sacred work, but it's all a sacred work if your heart, it all goes back to your heart and your motivation. You know, sweeping floors is a sacred work if you're doing it for the glory of God. I mean, Brother Lawrence washing dishes in the monastery, that was a sacred work that was done because the presence of God was there because we were there and we were acknowledging the presence of God. So that's usually where we come from of saying, look, I mean, what you do Monday through Friday is not any more important than the pastor preaching on Sunday morning. If your heart is toward God and your motivation is to bring him glory and um and you good in the midst of all that. And so we're just saying, let's take those very same talents that usually Monday through Friday and exploit them for the kingdom. And that's what we want to do. So I think that that's how it's it's not a divide, it's not a separation, it's all sacred if our hearts right. And here's the other thing, too, our religious works, if our hearts not right, they ain't sacred. I mean, that's worthless, right? And so it's all about the motivation of our hearts. And so when we when we look at that, and I think that makes it really easy to it's easier sometimes to say there's this divide. So if I'm doing secular work, I can act like a secular person. But if all my work is sacred, if all that I say, I do and I respond and I act is is sacred, then I need to be set apart and sanctified in that process and make sure I act like someone who's sacred. And I think that brings about the change. So because yes, you're you're hitting a real problem, a true problem that it's like if you love Jesus, you'd quit your day job and come work. And as a former ministry leader, don't quit your day job. We still need your checks. We still need you to send money. Um, but man, you can come alongside and and together do that. So I think that's a that's a that's a whole nother message and a whole nother topic you could do talking about the sacred, sacred, the sacred secular divide that is really, I think, alive from the pit of hell personally.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that and that actually comes up on pretty much we're coming up on a hundred episodes now, and that comes up on pretty much every episode in some form or fashion. And and I actually teach the new members class at uh I'm one of the new members class teachers in my church. And so what's a big part of the new members class? It's to help get people plugged into volunteer roles, right? And and so I always try to be very careful about the language that I use to not somehow imply that what you do in your it's like come and volunteer in the and be a greeter in the church, and then you're you know, you're a doorkeeper in the kingdom of heaven, and you're you're really this is the work that really matters. Like don't just don't just go make money for selfish reasons, uh, you know, to keep your lights on. And that's that's all just kind of vain. But you need to come and and volunteer in your church because that's what really makes makes the difference. And um, and I'm just very careful to not not send that signal. But I I the way I typically encourage them to think about it is it's kind of like the tithe principle. Um you know, I think I think 10% of our income does go to the Lord as far as does that go to your local church? I mean I think it goes to where you're being discipled. And I think, you know, certainly percentage of that goes toward the poor and and so on. Uh, but um but also with your with your time, I think there's uh there's a need to uh uh to volunteer some of that time toward things that are not you're not getting paid for. Because then that helps to uh kind of reorient the work you do in your nine to five job. Like when you like I'm sure that if you were to do a study of all of the members and and the the time that they put into using whether it's their accounting skills or whatever it is, toward that that women's shelter or whatever it is, and then they go back in their job and do accounting, they have a fresh purpose for for what they're doing.
SPEAKER_02Right. No, absolutely, absolutely. And it it helps them understand that what they're doing and what they've learned and their education, and it is they can they know they can turn around and use it for the kingdom as well. And that it's like, okay, I want to be the best I can be in this secular job, you know, in this work nine to five job that I am. I'm gonna be the best because I know that next, you know, the third Thursday of every month, I'm serving on that board and they need me to be spot on when I talk about marketing. Or I know we're gonna have a strategy session, you know, with that committee that's coming up, or I'm gonna be in sales and I want to be the learn the best sales, you know, I can because I can help a fundraiser know how to develop relationships with prospective donors. I mean, all of those things drives the motivation of why I want to do things in excellence because ultimately I want to disciple somebody else in these things that are gonna advance the kingdom.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And and those of us who who tithe, you know, we want we're expecting God's blessing on all of our finances, not just on, you know, that that 10%. But I think the same applies with our time. How much a blessing on all of our all of our time? And I think without volunteering a percentage of that. Toward these other ministries, especially now, are in such great need. And there's such great oppos opportunity and impact to be made. Yeah, Dr.
SPEAKER_02Bruce Wilkinson.
SPEAKER_00No, go ahead. Yeah, I just interviewed um uh one of our board members for CCB, and he he was just telling me off off the the record about uh uh just this opportunity that he was super excited about being to be able to participate in um the the genocides that have happened around the world. One of the big problems is that the families they don't know uh what happened to their to their loved ones, right? And they they just know that they're not out here anymore. And so there's this um this organization that he's helped to support that was was able to help bring some closure for some of these families. And of course, that costs a lot of money to do that. And and so he was just so lit up about that opportunity to be able to participate in that um in that endeavor. What were you about to say? I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02No, no, I think because it gets into that, you know, you were talking about the tithing and the time and you know, and expanding. And I remember Dr. Wilkinson said Bruce Wilkinson said something about, you know, uh, you know, I just have so much on my plate. I mean, I think I was whining to him about having so much on my plate. How can I have, how can I add more to my plate? And he said, pray that Lord would expand your plate. And I think that's really what happens is when we, whether our time or whether our talent or whether our finances, when we give to the Lord, he just expands it. And I'm my joke is always, I am absolutely 100%. I'm a prosperity preacher. You know, I give because I know I'm gonna get. Now I don't get back one to one, and often I don't want back one to one. I want more than what he can give us in that. And so I believe he's so faithful to that, especially. And there's an amazing proverb that says, if you give to the poor, you lend to the Lord. And I'm just like, how in the world, how in the world can that possibly be that me, the one who gave us everything, uh, saved my scrawny neck. And by the way, I get heaven along the way. And I can actually do something for the poor, and the Lord's gonna hold that as a debt to me. Whoa! How can that be?
SPEAKER_00It's incredible.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So let me go serve. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I know our listeners are chomping at the bit to find out how they can get connected. So why don't you tell them?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the best way is um to just go out online, barnabasgroup.org, and it is Barnabas Group. That's where everybody gets confused. It's not Barnabas. So it's B-A-R-N-A-B-A-S-G-R-O-U-P dot or g. So barnabasgroup.org, go there. All the information is going to be on that main home page. And then the upper right, you can click on local chapter, and you can click on there, go to the Houston uh location, and you'll see all the meetings that we have. We have about a dozen a year in the greater Houston area between the Woodlands, Katie, and at the Junior League in Houston. You can check those out or other cities if you're traveling and see what those are, register for that and you can reach out to the local managing partner and be a part of it to learn more. But that's always the best way. Website Barnabasgroup.org is the best place to go to learn more about what we're up to.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, Becky, I think a good way to wrap it up would be because I don't think we heard the I know who Barnabas from the Bible is and how I have a good sense of um, you know, how his name got into the the name of the organization. But as a call to action for our listeners, why don't you kind of share who Barnabas was and and uh what uh what that example means for us.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Absolutely. The reason why we it's called the Barnabas group originally it was just because he's a son of encouragement in our heart was we just wanted to encourage the ministries. Um but as we study deeper into Acts, we realize that the first time you see Barnabas, he's just a classic marketplace leader, right? He sells a piece of property, he writes a check, and he gives it to somebody else to do the ministry. And nothing wrong with that, and many of us, me included, as a marketplace leader, that's where I was. I just did my work, I wrote a check and I said somebody else do the real ministry. And that's where most Barnabas partners they come in at that point. The next time you see Barnabas is he is actually using his sphere of influence. He's met Paul, he trusts Paul, he knows Paul as a true convert to the faith and is no longer persecuting Christian persecuting Christians, but actually a Christ follower himself. And he's trying to get into the apostles to talk to these guys to just begin to work together. Well, they're scared of him. So Barnabas, though, just with a simple, it'd be an email today or a text, but just says, Look, you can trust Paul because you can you trust me, right? Trust Paul. So he uses a sphere of influence to connect Paul to the apostles, which then as a Gentile, I'm really thankful that Paul went out and did that. And so um we see first he writes a check, second, he uses a sphere of influence. The next time you see him, he's actually now using his time. He's starting to get his hands dirty, so to speak, in the ministry. And he's going, he's going with Paul on various mission trips. And so he's actually using his time and getting plugged in. On one of those last trips where they were together, we all know the story of most of us do that um there was a little bit of a conflict between John Mark and Paul. And Barnabas was saying, Hey, we got to forgive John Mark, and Paul's like, forget it, leave the guy behind, I'm heading on. And so Barnabas and Paul separated. Here's the interesting thing is if we fast forward uh to the end of one of his letters in the epistles, he um he says, Paul says, Send me John Mark. So we know somewhere along the line there was reconciliation between John Mark and Paul. And this is where this is Becky's stretch on this. We know Paul has zero conflict resolution skills. So I'm believing Barnabas had great common conflict resolution skills, and he was able to use those very skills to um to keep the relationship with John Mark and Paul and Paul so they could reconcile later down the road. So Barnabas uses all four of the spheres that we talk about in the Barnabas group, and that's what we we want all of our partners to be that way to get involved, give their time, give their talents, give their influence, and give their money to advance the gospel. So as I say, we can expedite the return of Christ's coming.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, beautiful. Be a Barnabas, everybody. Becky, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02Um, Darren, thanks. Glad to be here.
SPEAKER_00Barnabasgroup.org is the website. We sure appreciate your time and uh and sharing your your passion, your organization with us today, Becky.
SPEAKER_01My pleasure. We hope you've enjoyed this episode, and if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you would leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about the HBU Center for Christianity and Business at Christianityandbusiness.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your book.