Welcome to the Christianity in Business Podcast with host Barren Sheer, an initiative of the RTW Denham College of Business at Houston Baptist University. This is the show that helps Christian business leaders integrate their local values into business. You can get more information about the HPU Center for Christianity and Business and sign up to receive free access to all pages of the Christian Business Review Journal by visiting our website at ChristianityInbusiness.com.
SPEAKER_02On this episode, we're joined by Jeff Thomas. Jeff has over 25 years of experience working at some of the biggest names on Wall Street. He was named to Morgan Stanley's Chairman's Club. That's the top 2% of advisors in 2008. Interesting uh season and time for the financial industry. From 2009 to 2013, Barron's magazine recognized him as one of Texas's top financial advisors. And I know other financial advisors, and they want to be on that list. So that this is certainly some uh prestigious uh titles Jeff has uh achieved. In 2017, Jeff established Archetype Wealth Partners LLC from small advisors who are wired for more to high capacity business owners. He's passionate about fueling leaders for greater impact. And you're gonna definitely get a a good sense of that as you listen to Jeff share his heart uh for um for financial advisors and just bringing uh the the light of God's truth and God's ways into the uh the financial industry. And he's the author of the new book, Trading Up Moving from Success to Significance on Wall Street. Jeff, thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER_01Hey uh Darren, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Uh Jeff, at what point in your professional journey did you realize God wanted to be central to your work in this industry?
SPEAKER_01Well, it's uh it was probably about 15 years ago. Uh I had grown up. Um my dad was a uh business guy, an engineer, MBA, who was uh just you know, uh working for International Harvester and and uh in Indiana and uh going to church with uh my mom and and in his late 20s, uh the pastor asked him if uh you know if he'd ever thought about going into ministry. And uh to I think my mother's surprise, he said yes. And that set him on a path to go back to seminary and end up uh becoming a pastor. And so uh I grew up with kind of the notion that if you're all in for God the way my dad was, uh that you had to work for the church or a nonprofit or be a missionary or something like that. And so I kind of had that wrong for the first 15 years or so of my career. I I really didn't feel called, as it were, to be a pastor in a church, but uh so I kind of thought the rest of us in business, I really enjoyed business. And so, you know, for the first 15 years of my career, I really just uh focused on uh building a business, and I thought the rest of us are good people as believers. Uh, you know, we sort of support those that are actually doing the heavy lifting of ministry. And so uh I didn't really get the notion that we're all in ministry, and of course that led to a little bit of an empty place. So when I was about 36 years old, that's about 15 years ago, I uh I just got to a place where I was in the financial advisory business and built a big practice and uh but you know, made all this money I that I thought would make me happy, and it just sort of led to an empty place. And I was just uh uh asking God, well, uh I've done everything, I've sort of lived the American dream. It you're supposed to be happy, right? Uh money's supposed to solve your problems. And uh uh of course it doesn't. And uh and so I just had a kind of a turn at that point. I I decided, you know, I was kind of embarrassed about my lack of biblical knowledge, you know. Here my dad ended up with a doctorate uh in this stuff, and uh I felt like I had kind of a second grader's knowledge of the Bible, so I started doing uh a lot of Bible study. I was just doing it through Bible study fellowship. Maybe some of your listeners are acquainted with that, or you are, and and uh and so I got into God's word in a in a way that I had never had before, and it just got revealed to me that uh, you know, uh, even though I had confessed that uh Christ was the Lord of my life since I was 13 years old and I could do that for myself, um I really was putting money before God. And and of course, in God's word it says you can only serve one master, God or mammon. And uh I wouldn't have told you before I started doing that study that that's what I was doing, but I think God really revealed that to me, and I just uh really tried to repent of that and and and change my life, but that was not so easy to do at first.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, you were in the top two percent of advisors and and and Morgan Stanley, you know, one of the largest, if not the largest. Um so you you saw you observed a lot of um well you were experiencing as you as you described it to me, a misalignment. And you were you were seeing some things happening that in uh uh really you were wanting to go in a a direction of living out your faith in your workplace, uh but you uh didn't really have the freedom. And so you were experiencing this uh this uh this misalignment. What aspects uh of how you're serving clients at Archetype, the the firm that you started in 2017 just weren't happening in other Wall Street firms that you were a part of?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so one of the uh one of the statistics uh that we quote a lot at Archetype is that uh most families uh and and and your listeners have probably heard this expression, you know, shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations. And um, you know, frankly, for me, the money piece, the passing of the money is less important than the values, for example. And so um they've done these analyses of why these families sort of fail in three generations. You know, the third generation can't really certainly the money's gone uh 90% of the time, but really also with that come the values. And and they did an analysis of why, and that what they came to was it wasn't because of the planning, the it wasn't because of because of a poor estate plan or the wills were written wrong in these families, or that the investments had done poorly. It was really a lack of communication in these families. And so uh sort of when I made the turn that I described of really trying to put God first and money second in my own life, God really just woke me up uh to try to help other families do the same thing and to try to uh teach these values to the to the next generations. Frankly, the planning and the investments is the easy part. We like to be excellent at that. And a lot of people come to us for those things, uh, for estate planning, financial planning, investments. We want to be excellent at that. But we know that the real value of what we do is in having a conversation about these values that these families hold dear, especially if they're believers, you know, that their belief in Christ and their spiritual capital uh could be passed down. And and they're not having those conversations. There aren't many people that are facilitating those conversations, first between husband and wife, you know, to get on the same page. Um, and then certainly not to the kids or grandkids. So, you know, the kids and grandkids get to see them live it out and these type of things, but sometimes you need a forum, especially at the larger net worth folks. Uh, if you're passing money without wisdom, uh that's a formula for trouble, and that's what most families run into. So we really wanted, uh so our team was trying at Morgan Stanley to put on events and create space for having these conversations about passing just your, not just your money, but your values. And that's really kind of countercultural. Uh Wall Street was uh uh, and I'm not mad at Morgan Stanley for it. It's just not the way the firm was built. You know, these firms were built back in the uh mid-1800s uh when they're building uh railroads in the United States, and they, you know, we sort of imported uh investment bankers from Europe to come over and sell, create stocks and bonds to raise money to build the railroads. Well, so it was always kind of a product sale, and we're still trying to get away from that in the wealth management business, where we're not just selling a product or a stock or a bond or a mutual fund or some kind of product, but we're really, really the value now is shifting to these family conversations. And so that those firms aren't quite as comfortable with that, and they're certainly not terribly comfortable with a coming from a Christian perspective because it's a they're big public, you know, in the case of Morgan Stanley, it's a big public New York-based firm with all of the sort of secular values that come from that. So they're a little uncomfortable uh with being overt about using uh biblical wisdom.
SPEAKER_02So type of resistance. Yeah. What's an example of a type of resistance?
SPEAKER_01Well, so what uh I could go forever about this topic. Uh you get you you're getting me worked up, but uh but the so for instance in 2007 at Morgan Staley I started something called the Christian Focus Group, which was to help financial advisors, really of any faith, understand uh the Christian marketplace. And really the the crux of that was uh Christians think of of course as stewards, not of owners, as owners, right? God owns it all, and uh we're just stewards of what he's created. And so that's a very different mindset from uh from other people with other worldviews uh who feel like the pressure's all on them and it's it's their stuff. Uh so of course as Christians we think that uh God owns it all, he's in charge, and we're just uh look to him for guidance and and do what he says and and and glorify him uh by blessing others. And so there's a lot of generosity and these sort of things. So our team at Morgan Staley, we actually had a brochure uh that had Morgan Stanley on it, our team name on it, and we had Bible verses in it. And so uh there's a print media group in New York uh that would approve such brochures, and there was a sweet lady there uh that approved this brochure for our team, and I got it. And uh again, I had started this grocery focus group. We had about 600 members, and almost uh every day one of them would call me and ask them how they could build a God-honoring practice at that firm, and I'd talk to them about it, and I'd send them. In fact, I sent all of the members, 600 members, this brochure we had with Bible verses in it. And and uh I said, Hey, they approved it for us. Uh they ought to approve something similar, maybe edit it, write your own, whatever you want to do. But uh uh God bless you, I hope you get a similar brochure approved. And so anyway, print media in New York at Morgan Stilly got inundated with requests for this new brochure. And the lady, the head of the department, called me and said, Jeff, what have you done? I said, What do you mean? I uh you approved this uh brochure. I just sent it to all the other Christian focus group folks. And uh she said, Well, I did you a favor, I didn't mean for you to send it to everybody. And uh I said, Well, I wish you would have told me that before I hit sent on that email. Anyway, uh the lawyers got involved, of course, and uh they they banned all Bible verses from print media. Uh so just things like that. And again, I I didn't get too worked up. One of the wonderful things about our country is that we are free to practice our own religion. And and uh we just I, you know, when I look at uh lots of other countries, China, other places that are so restrictive, uh I'm just I feel so blessed. So rather than spend time worrying about what one company won't let me do because of their culture, uh God had already brought us uh just uh so generously, so many families to serve that we really have the resources to start our own firm uh thanks to what God had delivered to us. And so that's what we decided to do. And so we started uh from scratch uh with a God-honoring culture. In fact, our vision statement at Archetype is to build the ideal God-honoring wealth management company, and then our mission is to help families thrive across generations by connecting their money with their purpose.
SPEAKER_02But before you move into archetype, I want to hear a little bit more about this. Uh what was that the flashpoint moment when you realized it was time to start your own firm? Or what how much longer did you stay at the company? You know, would you're now responsible for a company policy uh being made that no Bible verses are gonna go on any of our content. I mean, like, how much longer was it? Was that the straw that broke the camel's back, or were there other things that happened?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was probably uh death by a thousand paper cuts, to be honest with you. Uh, there were all kinds of little battles. And and uh my attitude with uh the leadership of that Christian focus group was we really never got upset. We we just uh kept asking for things that we thought would help us serve families the way we felt called to serve them. And you know, every morning, I was telling you earlier, every morning I actually spent in the office of uh of our branch manager who kind of you know represents the firm, and I'd be saying, Yeah, we kind of need this to execute the way we need to, and this to execute. And I always felt like we got about half of what we wanted to get done, done. And so I never really knew any different. You know, I'd spent 25 years in that environment, but God had given us a vision actually for scale. And so uh when I was sitting with one of my mentors in 2010, uh Ron Blue, uh, he had started a wealth management firm and he he made a comment to me one day, he said, you know, Jeff, everything I start gets bigger and better after I leave. I can't believe this wealth management firm's 15 offices, 50 million in revenue now after 30 years. And I and it was just like this, I had this total moment of clarity about what I was supposed to do with my life. I felt like God's saying, I want you to scale what this guy started. And scale was the word, and so Darren, everything we did, uh kind of throwing ourselves into the Christian focus group, we tried to almost create a firm within the firm. So we were partnering with about 50 different financial advisors within Morgan Stanley, kind of a subset of that Christian focus group. And so structurally, those big companies are not made for a smaller company to kind of be created within it. So we just tried to go as far as we had. We had we had a lot of favor there because you know I was on a lot of committees at the firm and that sort of thing, and they had treated us well uh overall. So I really wanted to try to do it within the walls and maybe change Wall Street from changing a culture of one of the largest players. But finally, uh we just we just got as far as we could. The the structure where partnering with people around the country was difficult with the existing platform, uh, the banning of Bible verses, you know, we weren't able to communicate. Um, I had written this this book, a lot of this book four years ago. It was very difficult to get a book published uh that had a lot of Bible verses in it, that sort of thing. And so all of those things sort of added up to it. It was clear that God had given us this vision, and there were enough sort of X's by the things we needed to do that I just felt like I was just praying about it's sort of mourning the death of that vision for scaling something that honored him at Morgan Stanley. And I just felt like him saying it's time to leave. And so it was just the accumulation. There wasn't one event, but it was kind of the stacking up of all of these obstacles in the way of this vision we had. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So you had uh come in contact with Kingdom Advisors when when you were talking about uh this principle of stewardship and financial management and and this principle of God owns it all. I know Ron Blue, Kingdom Advisors have have really kind of been uh the really at least in my mind, the kind of the pioneers of that concept in modern day, and I know Larry Briquette as well. Um how much of an influence and and at what point did you kind of start to get um get this in you, the God owns it all?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think uh this was uh this was a very personal journey for me. Uh where, you know, when I was uh I really started as a financial advisor uh in 1995. And about 10 years into that, I'd I'd built a pretty big team in practice, and I really expected that to deliver joy. That it didn't deliver by itself. And that's that period I was sort of talking about about feeling empty and starting to do the Bible study. So it was really uh around 2005 and about a couple of years of Bible study into that. So 2006 and 2007, I really felt like God's saying, Listen, I I I want I own everything. I don't own just the little areas that you've given me lordship over. I actually, I actually own everything. And and so it would go much better for you, I felt like him telling me, uh, if you'd give me all areas of your life, including the money. And so uh I did that really with my wife in 2006. And uh and that's sort of when that that turn started happening. And then um after we changed our budget uh and and really put the giving kind of from the bottom line item to the top line item, sort of the first fruits, uh, of course, like within 10 days, uh I find out about Kingdom Advisors. And uh I felt like my the analogy I always give is that God told me to build a sailboat, so I was in my garage with uh fuzzy plans from the internet, building kind of a uh not a very pretty sunfish uh imitator. And uh and then Kingdom Advisors came along with the America's Cup racer uh boat and tossed me a sweater and asked me if I'd like to go a lot faster on their boat. And so that's when I found Ron and all of these other wonderful people uh that had done a lot of work in this area about how to advise clients in a biblical manner. And I thought, you know, they they they put me 40 years ahead. I mean, I thought I was gonna have to write all this material in my lifetime, and really I just uh I stand on the shoulders of Ron Blue, and he's he he always says he stands on the shoulders of Larry Briquette and then Howard Dayton, who started uh Compass Ministries, used to be, he was at Crown and then Compass. And uh, of course, they do a lot of uh biblical uh material around money for churches, and then uh uh Ron Blue's mission field is really to advisors. And so those two guys really say they stand on the shoulders of Literary Briquette, and then the rest of uh us out here now, there's kind of a new generation that are trying to build firms and do all kinds of things that are standing on their shoulders.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And one of the things that's really unique about your firm that I've noticed is that it's not just about managing money, it's actually about discipling wealth advisors and help because based on your experience, you know that there are so many other extremely gifted advisors out there that that are experiencing the same misalignment that you had. And so how do you how do you disciple these wealth advisors? What's some of the baggage that they kind of come uh to you with?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a it's it's a great question. And one of the one of the questions we ask uh the families we work with a lot when we're trying to get to their passions, you know, we don't just ask people what are your values? We we really just get their story and then we tease those values out of their narrative. And so one of the questions we always ask is, what breaks your heart? You know, when we're trying to get to their passions or their values? What breaks your heart? And for some people it might be stopping sex trafficking, some people it might be hunger, some people it might be abuse of children, whatever it is. For me, it's uh these families who just are a little, they just need a little bit of coaching uh to figure out what their lane is uh to serve God with everything they've got. The other thing that breaks my heart is is financial advisors. I I've just I have this uh God really planted a heart in me for other advisors. When I when I had that turn personally about kind of going from the way Wall Street teaches that the one with the most toys wins versus uh the one who's most generous wins, and the one who does stewards what God's given them the best wins, as opposed to stacking it up for yourself, the way the culture says that was so that gave me so much joy to get on God's agenda. I just I I thought it'd be more fun to stack up your toys. And I stacked up as many as I could, and it didn't give me any joy. And then when I started doing it God's way, oh my gosh, the joy has been exponential. And so I just wanted that for everybody else, clients, advisors. And so for me, uh my life is really mostly about training other advisors to think about that themselves and then to turn around and help clients think that way. So, you know, one of the one of the really hard things in our industry is nine out of ten new advisors fail out of the business within three years. And the reason for that is that uh, in my opinion, they're not given good enough. Training in the very early days, there's still very much a salesy culture at the big firms where they, you know, they have a salary, but it kind of goes starts going away after about six months and ticks down pretty quickly. And if you don't bring in, there's a lot of pressure to bring in revenue very quickly, or else you're gone. And so I just think a 90% fail rate uh of new people coming into any industry is just not a good thing. Uh so we we have a theory at Architect, we'd like to reverse that. We'd love to have nine out of ten make it in the industry because these are beautiful people who really want to serve people uh in an excellent way, uh, but they just we just don't think they are they're given the proper training. And so we're hiring some newer advisors, uh, but we're very careful about who we hire. We're going very slowly so that we can invest the time and resources into these folks to really train them. We think being part of a team is critical. So we we think you know, bringing a 30-year-old in uh right off the street and immediately having them manage the entire net worth of a 60-year-old uh with significant assets is not a smart thing. So we really like to disciple them. We don't like them going on any uh meetings by themselves, uh kind of two by two out there. They can sort of tell the story, but when when it comes to the advice, we we really want more experienced people uh delivering the advice. And so anyway, we just really want to walk alongside them uh in a more meaningful way than the industry's done. So probably means we have to do it slower. Uh but uh hopefully our success rate is higher and as we grow, uh hopefully we can uh hire more of them.
SPEAKER_02One of the things I see you doing are these workshops for for like high school age, kind of early college age folks to teach them some of the the principles of of finance. How does that fit into uh your business model?
SPEAKER_01So the you know, how we're kind of different in the marketplace from a uh client perspective is we deal with a lot of business owners in transition. And uh so they end up usually a lot of times, these are family businesses that have been started one to four generations back, and you know, they're used to kind of paying themselves, you know, just a kind of a living wage, pretty good wage, but you know, maybe they're making two or three hundred thousand dollars and they're tithing off of that, and so maybe they're given twenty or thirty thousand dollars a year, but somehow God will lead them to selling the company, and they might have 10 million or 20 million or 50 million dollars suddenly liquid. And uh so instead of, you know, uh maybe they got they inherited the business from their parents or whatever it is, and they just had they sort of inherited a job, if you will, and some ownership in a company, having that liquidity is a bigger deal. So they that's a new thing for them to think about how do I pass liquidity down to my children. And the number one fear uh that is voiced from our clients is how do I not ruin my children with this money? And I wish somebody would come alongside of us and help educate the next generation about money. And so we started doing this uh this year. We did one in the summer. Kind of the 18 to 25 year olds are sort of our uh target for this. And maybe we'll slice that a little more carefully. Maybe we'll just do high school, maybe we'll just do college, maybe we'll do just in their 20s later. But for now, we're just kind of doing the 18 to 25 year olds. We did one in the summer, we did one at the winter break. So if they're in college or in high school, they at the end of high school they can kind of uh attend these more easily on breaks. But it's about a three-hour session. We just do it at a local coffee shop in Houston, and uh we go through all kinds of things. I'm the old guy, I'm actually banned from the meeting. So we have our younger advisors delivering this wisdom uh to their peer group, really, and slightly younger. So we want we want these uh we call them the next gen of these uh wealthy families we have to uh feel comfortable to ask any question and kind of have their own advisors. Because we think uh that's a that's another thing that's important to have a multi-generational team that speaks the language of of each generation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And it goes back to what you were saying earlier about how there's such a lack of communication among the family members about the the financial matters and and and so many other issues of life, and uh that many of the big firms they just don't really have uh a focus or they're just so focused on the money management aspect, they're not really thinking about the relationships and um all these other dynamics that are in play. So I I I just I appreciate that that type of initiative to uh equip the next generation with these with these principles of um of what the Bible says about money and just just wisdom as it relates to money. What how Jeff, how would you respond to the skepticism somebody might have that um well Jeff, maybe you should have stayed there at Morgan Stanley because you could be the salt and light in that in that company? And you know, when you when you leave, now who's gonna be uh kind of discipling that company from the inside out? And you know, by going off and doing your own thing, maybe you're not able to have as much of an impact on uh on the on the culture of of the industry. What how would you respond to somebody that has that thought process?
SPEAKER_01It's a fair question. And I think um one of the things uh God's been working on me about lately is that uh he's God and I'm not. That sounds kind of obvious and simple, but what I mean by that is um my calling is different from your calling, and uh which is different from uh of you know, there's a guy in Indianapolis with Morgan Stanley that helped me a lot. His name is Brad uh with the Christian Focus Group, and you know, Brad's closer to retirement, and God didn't give him the vision to build a brand new firm that would scale in the United States to honor him. That's kind of a crazy huge vision that God gave me, and I'm just crazy enough to do it, uh, and I'm gonna have to do it completely with his help. So there are plenty of other people, uh, of those other, let's say, 599 members of the Christian focus group at Morgan Stanley, uh, you know, maybe God will peel a few off to come here and to go other places, but I'm sure many of them will stay at Morgan Stanley. And when they pray about God, where do you want me? And I hope they're doing that, he'll tell them I want you right where you are, and keep fighting the battles for me. And uh so I think uh, you know, it's not just up to me. Uh, each of us just has our own, we talk a lot about stewardship, right? We've been we've used that word a few times uh uh in this in this conversation. And so I'm just trying to steward what God's telling me to do. And I'm all for anybody that's at Morgan Stanley or Merrill Lynch or Goldman Sachs, when they pray and say, God, where do you want me? And if they say it's Morgan Stanley or Goldman Sachs, I hope they stay there and I hope they're obedient and I hope they're salt and light to those people. I was just given a different vision.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And uh, I'm just trying to follow what God told me to do. I've just figured that out. I've done it the wrong way. I I used to make plans and ask God to bless them. Now I'm just into him telling me what to do and trying to be as obedient as possible. It tends to go a lot better that way, you know.
SPEAKER_02Well, there's the there's some tension here because you know, Paul talks about remaining in the condition in which you were called. And you know, and so for some that might that might mean stay at that company, you know, don't leave that company sort of working internally in a in a big organization like that. But it it seems like though for a lot of us, yeah, you may be working in a place like that, but uh really the condition to use Paul's language, uh obviously not he, I don't think he spoke English as far as I know. Yeah, but um but if if you were an entrepreneur at heart and and God is giving really I mean my sense in talking to you, Jeff, is that this was uh you were always doing this kind of stuff that it it wasn't like uh you just you were doing uh entrepreneurship there, right? From a Canaan perspective and Morgan Stanley and and other places. Um an entrepreneur really just looking for a place to happen. And so would you say that if if maybe you're in a place like where you found yourself, but God has been stirring something like this in your heart to um to leave that maybe uh maybe the safety and the golden handcuffs and all of that, uh to go and do what really he's been it's the it's your condition, it's what he's been calling you to do all along.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. I mean, I you know, you were talking about the uh the book earlier, and when I when I think about you know trading up and writing the book, you know, and I think about not just financial advisors, I did have financial advisors in mind when I originally wrote it because they were asking me how do I build a God-honoring business at this firm, you know, at Morgan Stanley and that kind of thing. And I I wanted to help them out. But you know, as I was writing the book and as we've gotten reaction to the book, there's there are a lot of business people who are reading the book and being inspired to just be all in with God, whatever that means for you. And and what I think is so cool is we have the God of the universe who wants the best for us, who will absolutely deliver his wisdom about the path, where we should work, with whom we should work, in what industry we should work. Uh he'll deliver the clients you need, the business you need. He gives you the intellect to be an engineer or a wealth advisor or run a any kind of company or uh be in media like you. So uh it's so simple to me after a while. I really just want the book to be an inspiration to people where uh they just feel like, hey, I can be all in. And if I and God will absolutely tell me exactly what platform he wants me to be on and do that. So I think I always think, you know, for me, I always look at my dad going from business uh to being a pastor. And he sort of uh he wrote his doctoral thesis on how to run the church more like a business, you know, with some business principles to be more efficient and this sort of thing, more effective. And I always thought, wow, isn't that interesting? Uh even though I didn't want to be a pastor, I feel like I'm bringing church principles or biblical principles to the business world. So that's I've always kind of thought that way. And I think he just programmed me that way, and all I'm doing is discovering how he programmed me. I'm just trying to do a better job of listening to him and do exactly what he told me to do. So it's probably easier for you to see the patterns than for me. And but I think life's a team sport. We have so much fun with that with other business people trying to figure out exactly what they're supposed to do with their company or those kind of things. And sometimes it's it's great to have, you know, a group of people around you that are like-minded that are have the best in mind for you to think with you through those things. So I would suggest people find people to think through those issues with them. You know, life's a team sport.
SPEAKER_02And and two of the most common questions I get asked in this in this field are, you know, how do I serve God in a big company? And then the other is how do I serve God as an entrepreneur? And this book, Trading Up, Moving From Success to Significance on Wall Street, you're you're gonna get both because as you've heard, uh as our listeners have heard in this interview, that's been Jeff's uh that's been Jeff's journey. Uh so Trading Up, moving from Success to Significance on Wall Street is the book. I know people can get that at archetypewealth.com and also on Amazon. And anything else you want to say about the book or any calls to action you want to leave us with, Jeff?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think uh the I think the direct link is uh www.tradingupbook.com is probably the cleanest place to uh easiest place to get the book. And uh I I would just say uh it was an act of obedience for me to write the book. Uh I felt like uh God just telling me, hey, I've done so many things for you. Write them all down. Uh give everybody access to it. If they want to talk about it, tell them to give you a call. So uh you could also get a hold of me on that uh Archetype Wealth website, info at Archetype Wealth. And uh we'd be happy to talk to anybody about this journey. That's just my favorite thing, is just thinking about uh living an integrated life and an aligned life, you know, not just going to church on Sunday and then kind of getting worn down for the week and getting your booster shot on Sunday, which is the way I live my life for the first 15 years or so of my career. Uh, it's so much more fun to just live an integrated life where I just wake up and get on my knees and ask God, uh, really pray my calendar of uh how he wants me to serve people and all the meetings I have that day. And it's just so much more fun to see all the things uh he brings to light during the day, uh just ways of little ways to minister to people. Yeah. So I hope others are inspired to do the same.
SPEAKER_02All right. Tradingupbook.com and archetypewealth.com. If you're a financial advisor uh looking to be a part of a company like this with this type of a culture and mission, definitely check that out as well. Jeff, thank you so much for your time. And uh we appreciate you sharing your wisdom and uh your your example with us. It's truly encouraging and inspiring.
SPEAKER_01Uh it's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me on, Darren.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you would leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about HBU Center for Christianity and Business at Christianityandbusiness.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your business.