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SPEAKER_03On this episode, we're joined by Jason Davis. Jason has spent his entire two-decade career in the music industry and worked with many worldwide stars, including many our listeners will be familiar with Boys to Men, Sugar Ray, P. Diddy, Alabama, Lone Star Dolly Parton, among many others. He's an entertainment industry executive with a broad range of titles, including award-winning songwriter, award-winning author, independent record label president, executive TV producer, entertainment consultant, former senior VP of AR for Dolly Parton's management company, CTK Management, and a serial entrepreneur. I think we got serial entrepreneur just in hearing all those titles, Jason. And there and there came a point. What was that?
SPEAKER_02Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. And there came a point in his career when he just surrendered everything over to the Lord. And I'm excited to have him share with us today what his journey has been like, what he's been experiencing in the music industry from his Christian perspective. So excited to have him on. Jason, at what point did you realize God wanted to be involved in your work in the music industry?
SPEAKER_02I would say that it's been a 22-year journey in the business. First nine years before that, uh that I started playing music. I would, I would say uh, you know, I was an amateur, you know, a dreamer. Um, so this is this is basically 31 years of my life. Um, I'm 45 currently. Um, but I've been in the industry for 22 years, and it was 10 years into my journey in the industry that um I found the Lord and started reading the Bible and started desiring and attempting to apply what I was reading in the Bible and learning from people around me, Christians around me, uh, to my life. And obviously a solid part of my life. Um, I'm married and and uh love my wife uh to death, but you know, a big part of my life is business. I I am an entrepreneur and um have been since the beginning. So um I would say, you know, it probably within the first three to six months that I found the Lord, he really started speaking to me and working on my heart on how I did business. Um and I will say this too, that I think is important. I I found the Lord when I was 33 years old. So there was a lot of good things I learned in my life from people, and then there was a lot of wrong behavior I learned in my life from people. Um, some of it was even self-created, and you know, it took several years into my walk with the Lord for me to learn and relearn, and um, you know, there's there's that saying that old habits die hard and and um God has been teaching me and growing me, and I've been learning little by little over these 12 years. Um, so it's been uh it's been a long process. Um, obviously, I'm still not none of us will ever be perfect. Um, but I would say right around three to six months after I opened the Bible for the first time, uh 12 years ago, God really started showing me vision and giving me clarity of how to change my thought process, my heart, um, and and and how I maneuvered and did business with people.
SPEAKER_03And there was uh you really hit a rock bottom point uh along the way and were ready to to end it all. Tell us that story and kind of what brought you to that point.
SPEAKER_02Well, the the the interesting thing, and I think I think people see this with celebrities and see this with you know people in in uh in pop culture. Um I hit my rock bottom when I was at the very top of the mountain. And I had worked unbelievably hard for 10 years in the music industry, um, incredibly hard and sacrificed hard and had spent crazy amounts of money over the years building and got finally got to a mountaintop that I had wanted to climb. Not to say that there was never a higher mountaintop out there, but you know, I was I was pretty high up there in Los Angeles, and um and I got to a point where I had accomplished everything that I wanted to accomplish. I had purchased everything that I had ever wanted to purchase, and got to a point where there was nothing, I don't want to say there was nothing left to achieve, but there was very not a lot left to achieve. And there was nothing I could think of buying. And so I got to a place where the distractions were over. You know, the the goal in front of me was over. The the purchase of the car that I desperately wanted or the watch I really wanted was over, and I had all that, and without knowing God, it's almost like he spoke to me and said, Well, you got everything you wanted.
SPEAKER_01How is it? How do you feel?
SPEAKER_02And uh I had to probably for the first time in my adult life truly face myself and who I was as a person, character-wise, integrity-wise, um the the kind of people that were surrounding me, character-wise and integrity-wise, and my overall life. And it was a very uh it was a very uh empty time in my life, and it was filled with a lot of pretty intense despair, some of it based on who I was internally as a person, character-wise, and just the world that I was existing in in the music industry, character-wise, the people around me and people I did business with. And there was still a lot of unresolved things from my childhood, abuse that I'd gone through as a child that really, really uh, you know wrecked me as a teenager, that I had not fully dealt with. And um the combination of all those things led me to a place where I was like, man, if if this is what making it looks like, if if this is what having everything looks like, I feel like I have nothing. And I I really felt like in a sense I didn't even know what love was. Like I didn't feel like anyone around me in my life loved me. I I I I'm not sure if I was able to process this, but I really had no idea how to love a person, you know, or or or or people in general. And uh I was like, if this is it, and I'm this miserable and this stressed out, because you know, one thing I I've learned in my life, and for me, for some reason, this was uh not an easy lesson, but you know, when you work so hard to show the world that you are somebody, um you need a lot of possessions and a lot of materialism, and uh you have to be up pretty high up on the mountain to really accomplish that to the level where anybody that encounters you in your life would say that you know you really big time made it. And the challenge there is keeping it and maintaining it, and that comes with a tremendous amount of stress. Um you know, there's a saying like it's easy to succeed, it's harder to uh maintain success, which is true, but um it's it's also comes with a tremendous amount of pressure, you know, to be running something large um for what I would now view as the wrong reasons, you know, which is to try to show people in the world that you are somebody and that you matter, and it's just the wrong place to try to find your identity.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it was just very empty, and um, that was my rock bottom. And 12 years ago, I was in a hotel room planning on uh ending my life and through a series of pretty amazing events. I ended up finding the Lord. I opened up the Bible for the first time in my life, and God, little by little, over these 12 years, has pretty 180 degrees changed my life. And probably even more important than that is change my inner thoughts and change my inner heart towards people, um, change the ability, you know, to how deeply do I actually care about other people, how well do I love people? So that's uh basics of it.
SPEAKER_03What else changed in your approach to work from the from the point that you you really met Jesus for the first time in that pig pen of despair, you know, thinking about like the prodigal son, uh, you were just really at that rock bottom point. But from from that point, as you really dove into the Bible and sort of going to the Lord about how to approach, you know, because this is this is not exactly an industry known for upright living and not taking advantage of people. And so what changed in your approach to your work in this industry?
SPEAKER_02Uh, and by the way, your your assessment and the typical assessment of the industry is incredibly correct. Um uh I think one core thing changed more than anything else. And before I, you know, started seeking a relationship with God and and and uh and and growing it in in him, but my viewpoint, and I'm not saying I saw this clearly back then, but my viewpoint was the deal came before people. And I could unpack that for hours, but the deal came before people for me. And growing in the Lord, not saying that it was an easy process, not saying it didn't happen immediately. Um, it's been a 12-year journey of seeking and and desiring to be a better person and and to be able to get the wisdom to love people well. Um, how do you do that well, you know? But it's turned and changed 180 degrees to the desire is to put people before the deal always.
SPEAKER_03And but before you move on to that, when you say that you were putting the the deal before the person or or the deal before people, what did that look like? I mean, if you could take us to maybe uh a point kind of before Christ, or even after, you know, when you kind of got your priorities out of whack and maybe approached a particular person in a in a in a as a as a as as a number as a transaction, like what did that look like?
SPEAKER_02Uh great question. Uh two main things. And and and the both of them have a core understanding and belief and wisdom that I did not have before. So before the Lord, um and and and I could have never articulated this back then. I was just operating in life and doing what I did. I didn't I didn't have the depth of ability to think through what I was doing back then. But basically, I believed back then, without ever being able to express it, because I did not believe in God back then, that I was in charge of having to go out into the world and make a living. And the only way that I could make a living is to convince human beings to do business with me. And because that's how you, whether you're selling a candle to somebody or you're in the music industry, if you're selling a candle, you need a human being to actually give you money for your candle. So for me, I really and and I didn't understand this back then, but I did not, you know, I believed that I had to convince that person to, you know, work with me, to do business with me. And that person sometimes was a major company that worked for a major company. So whether it was an individual person or a corporation, I was still dealing with people. And I believed that my living, my income came from people, and that I had to convince people to provide my living for me. Um, and that's real murky waters. Because that means you're walking into meetings, you're walking into company doors, you're walking into big buildings, you're you're sitting down with individuals, and people can't matter as deeply as they do, or even close to it as they do to God, to you, if you're constantly looking for something from people. And so when I found God in the first six months to a year, and it was slow learning. It's you know, it wasn't like I just got this from day one and I was flipped and different and changed, and it's been this growth process of me making some mistakes along the way and learning. And but what changed was I now knew the way God brings rain down onto the flowers and feeds them. The flowers don't have to strive, they don't have to go out into the world and beg and plead and fight and claw. God provides. And so what I felt God was leading me to and showing me, and I now know, is Jason, I'm not calling you to get people to do business with you. I'm calling you to take the gifts I've given you, the wisdom I've given you, the experience and the relationships that I've given you, and I am calling you to love people from the depths of your heart, love people. And I, your God, the way I bring rain down on flowers, I will cause the people that are supposed to do business with you, the companies that are supposed to do business with you, I will cause them to entrust you, to open their hearts to you, and cause them to do business with you. So I, Jason, provide your income, not people. So you are now freed up to just trust me that I will provide, and I want you to learn and rely on me and surround yourself with good people that challenge you. And I want you to learn how to be freed up and just love people and let me provide your income. So the the two ways that that worked was before I knew the Lord, when I was looking at a big company like Sony Music or Universal Music or Warner Brothers, I used to actually not even refer to the people. I would just be like, that building, like I will knock down that building for business. Like I will, I'm gonna get inside of that building. I'm gonna cause that company name, like dehumanizing it. Dehumanizing it. I'm gonna get that company to open up their bank vault. I'm gonna get that company to do a business deal. I'm gonna get that company to give this artist a million dollars. Well, Jason, do you care if the company loses a million dollars?
SPEAKER_01Nah, the company will be fine.
SPEAKER_02So now, after the Lord, I don't look at a company name. I don't look at a big building. I walk into Capitol Records, I walk into Sony Music, I walk into Atlantic Records, I don't even see a company name. I see people and individuals inside of the building who have children and wives and husbands. They have house payments, they have mortgage, they have car payments. How I do business with them is vital to them being able to provide for their family.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it's no longer about me convincing this company name to open up the bank vault. It's about me creating something and working as hard as possible to create something in excellence enough that I truly know in the depths of my heart from all of my experience that this is something that will actually benefit this company. And the person that I'm sitting with, this this actually, this project, like this artist, they're gonna make you look good.
SPEAKER_01Like, and if I don't believe that, I don't walk through the door.
SPEAKER_02Um, so when it comes to the singer, when it comes to an artist I work with, I used to look at artists like, hey, this artist could help me reach my financial goals this year. You know, if I get them a record deal or we pop a big hit song or whatever, whatever it was, um I have this financial goal to keep to keep the empire going, and this is this person's gonna help me achieve my goal. Now it's like I'm attempting and desiring and looking inside of the person's body, into their spirit, into their soul, and trying to say, God, help me love this thing or like with a father's heart. Help me care about every aspect of this person's life. Please, God. Help me serve this people, this person, open up doors for this person, protect this person. Don't have me make a move unless it's unless it's the right timing, God. Like I want to love people. And and I've learned that God does the rest. It says in the Bible that his yoke is easy. A yoke is what you would put on huge oxen in the field, you know, farming in the field, the big plows with oxen. And the yoke is what you would use to direct the oxen in the field. And God is saying to us, if you put me on, I'm gonna guide you. And my yoke is easy. You're not gonna be striving for things. The right doors are gonna open, and I will guide you to those doors. And I've seen it over these 12 years over and over again. And I would also say that I went from somebody who strived a lot and viewed everything as like, I'm gonna. To I'm gonna push that door open. I'm gonna break that door open to God. Please open the door and lead me to the right door. And he does every time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. You know, Jason, some of the language that you were using there is really the language of discipleship, which is I've come to the conclusion that's what we're supposed to be doing in business, is making disciples. Whether you're a you know a pastor of a church on Sunday morning or you're working in the music industry or wherever, we're called to make disciples. And so as you're talking about how you really aim to serve uh those those clients and and what's best for them, um, what's is there a moment that comes to mind when you realized God was actually using you to disciple one of your artists at the Father of Christ?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's uh that's a great question. Um, there's one, and there's been a lot of these moments, but there's one moment that's very sweet for me. Um many sweet moments, but there's one that comes to my mind. There was a band I was working with, they were uh kind of an alternative rock band, and four guys in the band, um really cool band, really great songs. And the lead singer was really the leader of the band, and him and I used to talk a lot. You know, I was the manager, and there was one, and this is obviously after I knew the Lord, and this was not a Christian band, this was an alternative band, uh mainstream rock band. And uh I'm on the phone one night with the lead singer, and we just have this normal talk, and all of a sudden, and stuff like this never happened in the past because people you know probably sense deep down inside whether they knew it or not, that I didn't deeply, deeply, deeply care about them. So I'm on the phone with him, and he starts telling me that he has been cutting himself for years. And I we we talked about it for a little while, and I just listened and he didn't really give me any specifics, but and and to be open, um, I I had not, and this is going back probably about 11, 12 years ago. I had I I I know this sounds probably silly to some people out there, but I had never heard or known that anybody did that to themselves. I know that that's a common thing, yeah, but I just had never heard of that before. I didn't know that people did that. And I was so a lot of what I was asking him is about like, well, why do you do that? Or and he would explain that it relieves pain for him. And um so I hung up the phone with him that night, and the second I hung up the phone, I heard God speak to me in my in in my head, and I heard he's been molested. Call him back and tell him that I told you that he's been molested, and and he wasn't this guy wasn't even a Christian, yeah. And so I called back and I was pretty nervous to call him back because you know, for you to call from a guy to a guy and be like, hey, were were you ever molested? Like, it's just a weird question. Uh so I called him up, I was a little nervous. I did a lot of prefacing, like, hey man, like this is probably gonna be the craziest question you've ever heard. I'm really sorry to ask you this question. But when we hung up, I felt like the Lord told me that you were molested.
SPEAKER_01And there was dead silence on the phone for 30 seconds. And after 36 seconds, I heard a very timid voice say, I've never told anyone in my life about that. I've never even told my own parents about that.
SPEAKER_02And I I was like internally, I was like, wow, and I just felt led.
SPEAKER_01I said, Do you mind if I pray for you? Because it's demonic.
SPEAKER_02The person that did that to you was led demonically to do that to you, and it opened up a door, and Satan is trying to use you cutting yourself as a as a dress rehearsal to warm you up to the idea of just doing it and slitting your wrist and killing yourself. Like, that's why he's got to you with a razor blade in your hand. He's trying to get you comfortable, and uh so he's like, sure. Because I mean he was so blown away that I knew he said yes, and I started praying, and I literally felt like I was I had my eyes closed, and I felt like I was like in heaven praying for him. Wow, it was like outer worldly. I've I've probably never felt that way since the way I felt it that night. And when I was done praying, he said to me, he goes, I feel like I've just been released.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_02And I got a and interestingly, shortly after that, the band imploded. The four guys in the band got into an argument, they got into a fight, the band imploded and broke up. I just lost touch with him. Three years later, out of nowhere, I get a letter in the mail to my office saying that he had he never picked up a razor blade again.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_02And he had been cutting himself for about five years before that.
SPEAKER_03So Jason, that's one of the most powerful stories that that I've ever heard from a guest on this show or or virtually any other show I've heard of. Um that's so powerful. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. I mean, that's obviously uh one of the more memorable experiences, but you know, these these opportunities to reach out to hurting people in the workplace are are around us every day, if we'll just really open our eyes up and you know take that step of obedience. I mean, when God tells you something that uh you're like, God, I don't think I could actually say that to my coworker or you know, to whoever it is that's uh in your chain of command in your company, uh, you know, just just step out of faith and do it. So powerful. Thank you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, and I'll just tell you one, and this this I'll make super quick. But you know, there's an artist that got signed to a record deal, I don't know, probably a year ago that I I developed and and I'm I'm managing now. She's not a Christian artist, she's she's an all a pop alternative artist, a mainstream artist. And she doesn't know God. Um, you know, she doesn't believe in God. And um so she had to come into Nashville to to to do some songwriting and production and stuff, and and uh she was staying at our house, and you know, she was staying in our upstairs, uh, one of our upstairs bedrooms, and and so we we were just one night talking to her, my wife and I in the kitchen, and just the Lord, you know, just was just keep put putting on me just to talk to her and in in just in a deeper way than normal. And I was just talking to her about her life, and I started talking to her about the Lord, and and this is a girl that doesn't believe in God, and she was like crying, like I don't want to say hysterically, but she was crying, real crying, in our kitchen, and uh she's like, Can you can you show me like where that is? And so I opened up a Bible and I started showing her some different things, and you know, at the end of the night, she's just like thank you, like thank you so much. Like, and this is not because I'm doing business with her or I developed her. I mean, obviously, there's a trust there. She she knows I deeply care about her as a person, but um that that's one other recent example.
SPEAKER_03Wow. You ever get the sense, Jason, that you're really like you you're really the a pastor for these uh for these artists?
SPEAKER_02Uh I when I'm working with a Christian artist, I view myself as an executive pastor to a pastor's ministry. Um why you know I I view the lead singer, I view the lead singer almost like as the pastor.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02And I'm serving their ministry, you know, because a manager is very business oriented.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and so I I I feel like when it comes to music artists, I feel like I have almost like an executive pastor's heart. Like I'm probably not the one speaking on stage, but I'm the one, you know, breaking bread with people and having conversations with people and loving people. And and uh, but yes, I I I do view I desire to have a pastor's heart towards anybody I encounter in my life. And some days I do it better than others, um, but that is the desire.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. For for those like me who are curious about what is it, what is it like for a Christian in the music industry right now? I mean, it's it seems like so many of the great singers grew up in church singing Christian songs. I mean, I was actually pumping gas last night and heard, you know, there's like Christmas songs on the radio and there's singing go tell it on the mountain that Jesus Christ is Lord, and you know, this is like a mainstream radio station playing this, but but but but I mean do you feel like Christians are are largely marginalized in the music industry?
SPEAKER_02I I don't I don't really think so. I think I think you know when it comes to the mainstream market, pop, country, rock, alternative, um, the Latin market, which and and I I I've worked in all those over the years, and I still work in all those markets. And uh I I just I I get a lot of people, you know, in Los Angeles uh that will come visit me in Nashville, or I'll come, you know, I'm I usually making a few trips a year to Los Angeles to do business. Um I'm constantly talking to people in Los Angeles still. But uh I just get a lot of questions, you know, like people ask me questions about faith, people ask me questions about, you know, God, people ask me questions about the devil. You know, I just get a lot of people asking me questions. Um and I think there is this this, you know, from some of the aspiring artists I meet that don't know the industry, like sometimes, you know, there's this uncertainty of like, wait, you do Christian music too? Like, you don't want me to be a Christian artist, right? Like, I don't want to be a Christian artist. And it's like almost like I I don't want to say I laugh a little bit inside, but it's it's just the naiveness, like people just don't understand that. Like, you know, it's it it it actually means all it translates to is I'm probably going to care about you more than probably anybody else you're gonna meet in Los Angeles. Um, you're probably gonna be protective and cared about a whole lot more, especially you know, if you're a younger, inexperienced artist. But I think, you know, when it comes to musically, I think, you know, we're in a world today where the genres are very blurred. You know, I think iTunes and Spotify and Apple Music, the streaming platforms, are really, yes, there's still separation of genres on the platform, but I think, you know, when you're looking at what what's currently hot or the the best of the week, or most of the there's so many different playlists on Spotify or Apple that are just mixed. You know, it's like one thing's a country singer, one next thing is is Billy Ellish, the next thing is a Christian artist, the next thing is a rapper. It's really blended. Yeah, you know, I mean, just on the country music awards, you had, you know, Zach Williams and Freaking Country, who are Christian artists, on the country music award stage singing with Dolly Parton. Um, and you know, you just had Kanye West put out a Christian record, and it was, you know, the number one album on every single platform you could find for weeks across the entire country. And it's in a massively overtly Christian album from Kanye West. And then you have Tori Kelly, you know, who is a pop singer, and she put out a gospel record last year, which was Grammy nominated gospel record, and then she just went back and started putting out, you know, more mainstream songs again. So I think um people in the industry are just looking for complete and utter greatness. They don't care if they don't most people in mainstream music, Los Angeles, New York, they could care less what you believe in. Just play me a great song, play me a great singer. And so that, and that's what you know, that's what my experience is is, you know, how do you make a great product? You know, whether it's an alternative artist, a rock artist, a Spanish artist, um, a rapper. I I've worked with all genres. So the genre of music doesn't matter to me. What matters is is this artist being served well? Are they being loved well? And are are they being fought for?
SPEAKER_03Wow, beautiful. Well said, Jason. What's the best place for people to learn more about you and and uh just get connected? I mean, I mean, I'm I'm curious, like from your standpoint, why do you do an interview like this?
SPEAKER_02Um, I I think I have, you know, over the few decades I've been doing this, I've just whether it was stuff in the past that I made mistakes on or just current mistakes I see people in the industry making towards you know how they're handling people or doing business, I I have a big heart to try to give back any wisdom or knowledge I've learned, you know, um, whether it's mistakes I made over the years, or it's just a whole bunch of mistakes. I see a whole slew of people out there making in the industry currently. Um, there's not a lot of people in in business in general, especially entrepreneurship type business. There's not a lot of people out there, but definitely not a lot of people in the music industry where their yes means yes and their no means no, where you could actually shape their hand on something uh where money, you know, doesn't come first to them. Um, so I just have I have a, you know, I feel like if you gain wisdom and knowledge and experience throughout your life and you don't look for avenues to try to pass it on to somebody else, you know, if if I could help one person listening avoid any mistake I made in the past or any heartbreak I have experienced in the past, whether that was somebody that did something to me in the industry or something I did to somebody, whatever it is, I just want to help people avoid um missteps in their life and help people, you know, love people better and serve people better. And so that that that's that's why I agreed to come on.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, we thank you for your time and sharing your wisdom. Who what would be just real quick, two two songs or two albums from your clients that you're serving that our listeners that we ought to go download like right away?
SPEAKER_02Uh I would say, you know, first with our company Radar Label Group in Los Angeles. I have two partners in Los Angeles. Uh, we have a band we've worked with for years called the Neon Trees. So they just put out a new single. Um, and then I would also say uh in the in the Christian world, my artist um Austin French has been killing it the last uh couple of years. And he's um working on a new single right now that will be coming out probably in March or April that is pr pretty phenomenal. So that's it. But those are those are you know one thing to check out, one thing to watch for.
SPEAKER_03Excellent. Well, we'll have the links to your your labels there and your um your agency on the show notes page. People can go and see who else you're working with. Definitely some uh some pretty big names on there and a lot of up-and-comers as well. Uh so Jason, we do thank you so much for being so generous with your with your time. No, you're not trying to you know promote a book or a course or you know anything like that, just coming on here just to uh just to share uh you know the lessons lessons learned from your journey. We're certainly better for it.
SPEAKER_02Awesome. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you would leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity in Business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about the HP Center for Christianity and Business at Christianitybusiness.com. Thanks for listening. And remember to keep interpreting difficult values at your business.