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SPEAKER_03On this episode, we're joined by Keith Hurtling. Keith is the Vice President of Leadership Coaching and Culture for Jersey Mike's franchise systems. And you've probably been to uh Jersey Mike's sub shop. Uh actually, my family and I we're gonna be going to check it out tonight, Keith. I don't know how I managed to get through uh this part of my life without going to a Jersey Mike's, but we're gonna we're gonna experience the glory here tonight. Uh but he's worked with the sandwich chain for 15 years. He began coaching Special Olympians in college and has been teaching and coaching ever since. At age 15, he co-founded Popeye's Gym, a haven for athletes, police, firefighters, and lifeguards. One of those was DDP Diamond Alice Page, not one of the lifeguards, but one of the guys that worked out there, actually worked out in Keith's gym early on, and was a leader in the fitness industry for more than 20 years. He also spent time as a high school and college football coach, certified personal trainer, and life coach. And definitely recommend everybody go check out his book, Life Lessons on Leadership, Coaching, and Culture, where he shares a lot of the story uh of the folks that he's worked with and his journey with with um Jersey Mike's. And Keith, thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, it's a problem now because since you have not been to Jersey Mike's, you're gonna be gone once a week. And a new habit.
SPEAKER_03I'm like that. I'm like that. That's the thing. When I get when I find that habit, I just go again and again. I will not venture outside of that in a lot of cases. Once I find that, but once I find something better, I'm totally willing to make that uh make that switch. So we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna find that out tonight.
SPEAKER_02Uh awesome. That's great.
SPEAKER_03So, what's the story about how you got involved with Jersey Mike's? Jersey Mikes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, I actually grew up with the founder.
SPEAKER_03So it was uh you guys played football together.
SPEAKER_02We were we were best friends growing up. We were the running backs in the in the local high school. Actually started in uh in Pop Warner, and that was uh we tell our uh story about our coach all the time. He was a he was a golfer, but a great influence, great first coach mentor. Never yelled or screamed, and just uh unbelievable experience we had. He went to a bowl game and and won in Florida, so that was as as a 12-year-old. But uh he was actually instrumental in giving Peter the loan later on. He was also a banker. Uh Peter bought the sub shop at age 15. Wow. But uh we were the running backs, we we were the only two that got scholarships uh to go to college, and he never went, he bought the sub shop. And you know, he stood out on the on the porch of the sub shop that he worked at there since 14. And he said, Look, pal, I'm not going, I'm not going to college. I'm gonna buy the sub shop. And I was like, Yeah, good luck with that, buddy. I'm out of here. But uh really we've uh you know, I went I did my career, and uh after after 20 years in the fitness industry, it was time to uh to sell out and and get involved in Jersey Mike's. It was just perfect timing, and so took over the Midwest. And then uh after 10 years of uh operating stores, came back into the office working with my my good friend Peter Canker.
SPEAKER_03All right. So Jersey Mike's is a is a special place, it's a special kind of uh sub shop, a sub-above. That's the uh that's kind of the tagline. Uh tell us about the time when you you're you're Catholic, I'm assuming, and you've got a lot of Catholic influence on uh not only your personal life, but you brought that into the company. Uh, tell us about the time when Father Barnabas had lunch at one of your Jersey Mike's locations. What did he say to you before he left?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that was an awesome memory. And every store opens up on a Wednesday, and we have five days of really hard promotion, giving away a lot of free subs. So you're kind of pretty tired by that Sunday. And I still remember we were in Kansas, the peak of Kansas, snow on the ground, you know, not optimal conditions, but we sold a ton of subs, about 650 a day. And that was a new record. And I was working the slicer on a Sunday, and here comes Father Barnabas, uh, who was actually the Abbey, and it was the abbot, you know, the head of the abbey. He was the head cheese, one of my great mentors at the time. And uh just uh just uh surreal when he walked in with his collar. No, you know, people looked at him. It was lunchtime, he watched, he observed, and then he uh finally came and got a sub and he and he stopped a line and he said, Keith, man, what a great ministry you have here. And it was just, you know, everyone paused, even the customers. Uh, but my manager was right next to me, and I'm I'm the owner operator, I'm gonna leave that store soon and open the second one. And my young manager just paused and said, Is that guy a saint? And I just looked at him and he was kind of a naive young kid. And I said, No, uh, what maybe he is. I don't know. And I remember reading uh not long after that, the pathway to sainthood. You may not be one, but you could be, but you'll never be unless you believe you can be. And so he looked at he looked at me, and then we all looked at each other. And uh he said, Man, that's you know what? Maybe he is a saint. And then a little conversation, everybody was involved, including the uh, you know, everybody just paused in line, even the customers, and and Father Barnabas took over. In fact, his uh Barnabas, he chose his name, son of encouragement. Sure. And we teach our guys to you know use that word encouragement all the time. That's page 41 on the book, by the way. Yes, but um but from then on, you know, my my guy took over for culture. And my guy, Mike, his name, you know, he uh he said, Let's start treating our customers like this. And it's like, well, you know what? We are a community of saints, let's use that word. You go and he said, Can I do that? And it's like you can do whatever you want. This is your store now. I'm I'm leaving soon. So you just take over. And uh, you know, those were just memories that you look back on and say, That, you know, we didn't even have the word culture back then, and now it's it's uh that's all you hear about.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So what does that mean? What treating everyone like a saint, what did that come to mean for Jersey Mike's?
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, this is what we teach in our leadership school today. It's it's uh it's our 14-foot, you know, that's where that's the that's the length of the counter, and we call it our 14-foot of experience. But it's really what we've uh kind of esoterically referred to as now our New Testament. And uh so you know, we come in, we ask our guys, and I say, hey, anybody know what the New Testament is? And you know, sometimes people know, and and uh they'll say, Yeah, we give you a new commandment, and that is yes, love one another. And that's what we need in this 14-foot. We need to use this word love. We you know, when we teach what it is, nobody knows what it is. And then let's use that word love more with your with your staff. Let's take care of our people. It's uh it's part of our culture, and what Peter wants is to pay properly, take care of your own people. You can't do it unless you take care of the, I mean, you'll never take care of the customer unless you're unless your own company is you know run by the heart. So that's that's that's a reality we teach in our in our school.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. You know, I have found that a a lot of young, kind of upward mobile types like yourself in that in that season, if you you encounter a an influential church leader, a lot of times the church leader will say, you know, you seem like a good candidate to go into the ministry. And what they mean is you need to leave all this the sandwich shop business and go and go to seminary and and get and and start to become uh part of the quote unquote clergy. Uh but Father Barnabas's approach was he affirmed the ministry that you already had. What did what did that mean to you? Had you ever thought about going to become a priest?
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, it's uh it's a great thought because going to Benedictine, I had no idea. It was pure divine providence. Was was never going to go there. Um in fact, the story is is kind of it's it's probably weird. I put it in the book right away because I Popeye's gym. And you know, we had the uh had my license plate, Popeye, and was Pope Yes. Popeye was our you know, Popeye, Pope Yes. And so that was the uh that was what one of the monks saw when I pulled up on campus driving off, dropping off a kid, and really never left. You know, when somebody looks at your look and says Pope yes, and then you look down at him with it and say, Oh man, it does say Pope yes, I guess, but you know, pause for a moment, but really spent wound up spending eight years with the monks, and they knew right off that I was not gonna be a monk. I mean, they loved me in there, uh, was just it was just not monk material, really. You know, you're talking about a jock who is uh, you know, just happened to be, you know, Christian faith. I mean, just they they worked on me like I was one of their surrogates and like I was a novice, but I could come and go anytime. Uh, they just knew I was gonna do something in the real world. And they that's how they prepped me. And they said, Look, you want to be a teacher? That's what we need you out in the real world. You're not gonna help us here in the monastery. Because it was this, I just didn't have that calling. And they said, Well, that's great, but since you since you do love God and you do love the Lord, we need you out there. And that's that's I've seen it from that from day one.
SPEAKER_03And it was about that time when you started coaching uh Special Olympics athletes. Was it wasn't it about that time?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, that was a life changer. That was a sophomore in college, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Is that what did you learn about business coaching from that experience?
SPEAKER_02Well, that was just the most amazing experience uh any at all at all. But um in in the business world, I mean, it's the guy that actually wound up working with me was uh an amazing businessman because he would try to place these kids in the in the business world. So not only were we just practicing with the kids and bringing them to the tournaments and the and just you know loving these kids whenever we could, but it was his job and he really taught me that this was a higher calling. It wasn't just working with the kids, it was it was putting them into the real world so that they wouldn't be a burden to society. And and a lot of the kids were placed correctly, and one of them I still see every year. And Lisa Gellings was our captain um right from the beginning. So that's so she's just ready to retire from the Benedictine College cafeteria after at age 58, 59.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02Still, still uh uh I'll show up on a homecoming football game and she'll run across the field screaming my name. It's just one of those uh unbelievable love stories that you know over time.
SPEAKER_03Wow. And how do you apply some of your lessons learned in in the actual coaching you do with your your Jersey Mike's owners?
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, right now, uh if we say if you can't work with somebody with a Special Olympian, then you can't really work in our stewers. You know, you have to treat everybody as if they're a saint. And yet everybody has different needs. We talk about coaching styles in our leadership school. You know, not everybody gets coached the same. And man, you learn that as a special ed teacher. And you know, you have to develop an IEP. Uh you know, everybody knows what they are these days, individual educational plan. I mean, everybody's different and it's gotta be personalized. And every we we're teaching our guys you have to have a file on every one of your crew. And and how are they learning? And what are we doing? You know, what is your leadership plan as a franchisee, as a manager? And a lot of these kids are coming in and in the restaurant world and they're just not equipped. And we're giving them the keys to this uh, you know, we say it's a 300,000 Lamborghini, but it really is uh it's a million-dollar business. They're not just really selling subs or making subs, they're really running uh on they're really running, they're entrepreneurs and they're running million-dollar businesses. I mean, that's that's the the reality.
SPEAKER_03Sure. Hey, before we get back to this episode, I need to let you know about a new course we've developed here at the Theology of Business Institute called the Biblical Standards for Businesses course. Are you tired of hearing well-meaning statements about how God cares about your work in business, but not actually having much practical guidance on how to apply the Bible in business matters? Are you tired of having to rely primarily on non-Christian business gurus for useful guidance on how to run your business? Do you want to know what the Bible says about the fundamental aspects of business like innovation, competition, marketing, sales, customer care? What does the Bible say about quality control or management, human resources, accounting, business law, risk management? Given that we're called to set Christ-centered standards in business, which is really just another way of saying we're called to make disciples, we believe every Christian business executive, entrepreneur, and coach should be able to explain and apply what the Bible says about each of the core fundamentals of business. So join us in the Theology of Business Institute's Biblical Standards for Businesses course to discover and apply what the Bible says about business so we can set industry standards and steward our companies in ways that reveal God's glory to the world around us. So head over to theologyofbusiness.com and click the tab that says course to learn more and enroll for the current semester. That's theologyofbusiness.com. So I want to hear more about your takeaways from what you call these monk mentors of yours, uh, because they they've just had such an impact on you and the I think even just the idea of going to live in a monastery to be able to be, because most people, and I attended seminary and I took a course on discipleship. And on day one, the professor asked these seminary students, how many of you have ever been discipled? Where there was somebody in your life that kind of took you under their wing, a a Christian that was maybe a little further down the road to kind of help you understand what this Christian life is all about. And 85% of the hands went up and said, We have never been discipled. These are master's level MDiv students, never been discipled. And but in from where you're coming from, I get the sense that you've just you've been taken under the wing of so many of these of these monks. Um, what have you learned about business coaching from these uh Catholic monk mentors?
SPEAKER_02What haven't I learned? I mean, it's everything. It's it's uh when you talk about a profound influence, you know, we teach the seven habits. You probably heard of Stephen Covey's seven habits, and and most people don't realize they're all grounded in scripture. And but even we we talk about the monks, they they wear habits. I mean, the actual clothing they wear, you know, they're they're so uh disciplined throughout the day in their prayer life. You know, I look back and and I'm I'm I was a little uh melancholy this last month. I lost my man monk monk mentor, 88 years old, a monk for 70 years. Imagine somebody that can influence you for 70 years, but picks up at the same time, you know, the monks um would pray five times, five times a day. Ora et labora, Latin for prayer and work, one of St. Benedict's rules. Uh they believed work was prayer. If if you look at the military, so so many similar characteristics, but it just didn't have that teaching side um like a monastery would have. But we we use uh the saints and teach with the saints all the time. And we talk about St. Thomas Aquinas. There can be no love in life without love at work. Um look at look at Mother Teresa, who was just can't you know, just became a saint in our lifetimes amazing. You know, work without love is slavery. And you can take the saints, you can take some of the theologians that talk about work and love in itself, and and how why do we work? We ask this question all the time. And generally when we go into a store, we'll surprise somebody behind the line and say, Hey, let me ask you a question. Why do you work here? And they just kind of stammer a bit and they go, What why do I work here? I I love it here. And when we hear that love, and we say, Wow, okay, something good's happening behind this 14 foot. And they might say, I love my boss, I love my my uh the atmosphere. Uh they might even say, I love the pickles, we don't care. But it's it's that how do we get that person to be happy? Because we're seeing the research is just horrible. You know, 70% of the people that were in the workforce just don't like their jobs, they're not happy.
SPEAKER_03Wow. And I just read a book called The Power of Habit, and there's so many implications for business there, and and especially as a franchising company, that that's that's the name of the game, right? Is having that consistent, high level of service and products. Uh and and who better to learn from than these uh these monks. You know, that's the life is the like you talked about, the Benedictine rule. Um, so much to be gleaned there uh from in terms of the power of habit from these uh from these monks and just that whole lifestyle that you've been able to bring into and and not just habits for the sake of habits, but the right habits, the habits that focus you on what really matters most in life, and you seem to have a a good handle on that. Um how what are some of the other practical ways that you teach this culture to your team?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, you know, we start right off with our manifesto, and it's it's uh it's uh a video that takes you two minutes. It it really sums up who we are. Put that in the book we love using in the video and just not the words, but it teaches us virtue. It doesn't talk much about the sub in itself, but it's this manifesto or credo, so to speak, that that takes Peter's mission statement, which is what Jersey Mike's mission statement is giving, making a difference in someone's life. He's been promoting that since 1975. And so, what what other you know, if that's not a a a trait from the Bible, what is? But in the manifesto, we talk about virtue, virtue of intention. What is virtue? We're teaching, we we teach the kids the etymology, break down words like virtue, like uh enthusiasm in theos of the spirit. Uh you're you're trying to inspire your employees. Inspire is Greek word, breathe into. What are you breathing into? You're a spirit of enthusiasm. So it really is that manifesto we start off with, but it's uh during that time we'll talk about our core values, and then we'll we'll have them create their own core values because most of them coming in don't have they don't have they haven't thought about it. They haven't really, you know, they're all X's and O's, profit and loss. It's all about the numbers. And what we're trying to do is say, look, you've got to learn how to treat your people correctly. You've got to teach them how to be happy. You actually have to, you know, go over the habits with them. And they've never seen the habits before, most of them. Uh most of them don't read. So, you know, even even this book, when I was putting this thing together, I I asked the experts how many pages should it be? And they said, Oh, just don't make it big. Make it really concise. And so I said, Well, what, a hundred pages, two hundred? They said, Yeah, less than two hundred. Keep it under two hundred. They just won't read it. And I've seen this with my field guys. I mean, I I oversee 20 guys that that uh, you know, uh we we just started a book club, so we're we're kind of but we'll we'll generally read a book and and do a one-pager so we can share it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So they're they're getting better at that. But these are well-trained, these are the elite guys.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I mean, but the restaurant world getting to that level uh is challenging, but we we're seeing it happen. And we're seeing if you come into our stores and you don't feel like you're special, like you're a saint, we need to know about it.
SPEAKER_03Well, good. Well, we're gonna be secret shoppers tonight, then, and uh I'll I'll let you know how it's going down at this location. Um, and and I also loved it. I read in your book, Life Lessons on Leadership, Coaching and Culture, about how you had borrowed this uh this practice from the Benedictines. Apparently, they're sending out like a one minute kind of thought for the day, and and y'all kind of made your own version of that, and it's a 56 second uh thought for the day to really help to instill that culture, 56 because Mike Subs was founded in 1956, right?
SPEAKER_02You're good. It's right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I love that um that approach. You know, it's just one of those things for a business owner to think about how, cause it's so easy to get just bogged down in the the day-to-day uh grind of the business and not actually think about how are you training your people and looking after guarding the culture that you want to have in your in your company.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you're not gonna be able to deliver a great experience if your people don't know your mission, if they don't know why they're working, if they're not happy working with people that they are working with. And so we we want to be known as a training company. We want to train these guys, but we want to train them specifically in really you know, we don't say you're coming to a Christian training, but essentially we just have most of our most of us training our Christians. And so we're we're getting that message to them um through the word love. And and we we say, look, you gotta use it more. It's it's not a bad word. And and we'll teach them what that is. We'll talk about agape love. We'll talk about just saying, Hey, I love the way you wrap that sub, your customer, hey, I love that that you have a new tie on, or I love the way you, you know, that the color of that dress. Just use the word love more. And that was one of the the last um I want to say gifts I got when I left the uh Attress in Kansas. The monks um had what they call the eight magic words. And that was uh everything you do must be done with love. And you know, in the beginning, you know, I'm I'm just a jock who's uh I'm gonna be a football coach, you know. I got a lot of testosterone pumping around, and it's like, okay, I can I can took me a while to get that. And but today uh we really see that kind of culture that flows not only in our home office, but in as many stores as as choose to do so.
SPEAKER_03Beautiful. Well, Keith, where's the best place for people to hear more from you? Certainly want we want people to go check out the book, Life Lessons on Leadership, Coaching, and Culture by Keith Hurtling, H-E-R-T-L-I-N-G. Um, so um I know the book is on Amazon. Any place else you want to direct people?
SPEAKER_02Well, I usually direct them to my to my own personal website, keithhertling.com. It's uh it's a pretty simple website, but you can sign up for our mentoring program. And we have a mentorship program, it's usually based on 10 weeks. Uh pretty simple, pretty, pretty, pretty simple format. It's a 30-minute podcast, 30-minute lesson, really, with a homework assignment. And uh homework assignment might take you 30 minutes. This uh we're just actually getting ready to launch another one here September 12th, a 10-week or uh, and it's calling Elevate Your Life. But that's that's one way. Um we have uh they could they could actually come visit and come to our uh Bible study. We actually have a Bible study here.
SPEAKER_03Bible study there at the Jersey Mike's headquarters.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that's just the Peter Cancro thing.
SPEAKER_03Um the founder, Peter's the founder for anyone who doesn't know.
SPEAKER_02He's he's our founder. Uh one day we're just out uh swimming in the ocean and said, Hey man, I think uh I think I need to start teaching a Bible Bible study. And he said, Fine, go for it. Just just do it in the morning, you know, and just uh, you know, do it the right way. And we've been doing that now, it's going on our sixth year, I think. And uh haven't haven't missed a day where there weren't two or more gathered in our uh weekly, weekly Bible study. But you think you talk about that, and and right now we're on Proverbs, and you talk about application for business. I mean, we're we're sitting in there laughing almost every every line you read in Proverbs. And you know, I put some of those on my website, some of my favorite ones that I've learned and memorized, and and there's some videos on there of culture and habits, and uh just kind of a there's some fun stuff, there's some reflections, there's uh some poems that uh I've written throughout the the years that we we uh we like to share and kind of come together with uh you know kind of that talent.
SPEAKER_03But well, Keith, I gotta tell you, I'm a fan. I'm a fan of uh what you're doing and and Jersey mics. I haven't even eaten there yet. Um that that'll really just be kind of the icing on the cake, but uh just the culture that you're instilling is remarkable. And I'm surprised I haven't heard more uh about what's happening there, but I know that now that I have, I'm gonna start seeing it everywhere. Um, because you guys, I think how many locations now?
SPEAKER_02Well, we have 1,600 open. Uh we have we have uh 2,500 in development. So, you know, in the next uh opening about 200 a year, 225 or so. So it seems like that's our pipeline. There, there is uh, I think we have been blessed as we have uh progressed. I think mainly because our leader is a truly remarkable uh Christian man who you would never know it through uh through his you know, his he is a great humble servant, as most of the great leaders are you see out there. And I think you're gonna hear his name go down to history when it's all over because uh he has done probably more for the actual customer and uh and the people that work around him than and I would imagine most any of the predecessors before him, like like uh, you know, the other fast food concepts in that category.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Wow. I believe it. Well, Keith, thank you so much for being so generous with your time. And uh, I know our our audiences benefited from this episode. Appreciate you and what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02No, and uh, you know, I'm gonna send you some free subcards because you're gonna go, you're gonna have to be my secret sub shopper out there. We've got all right.
unknownAll right.
SPEAKER_03We got a bunch of them out here, apparently. I was just mapping it. They're uh yeah, they're all over Houston.
SPEAKER_02I could download the app so you know, so you can quickly become a loyalty member and get some stuff.
SPEAKER_03We'll do. We'll do. Keith, thank you so much, brother.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode. You can share your feedback and get more information to help you partner with God in business and disciple your company, your industry, and your community at theologyofusiness.com. The Theology of Business Podcast is sponsored by Hybridge Books and Media, a media agency specializing in publishing and promoting the world-changing ideas of inspiring thought leaders through book publishing, website development, publicity, email marketing, social media management, podcast management, and video-based course of publishing. Take the next step to share your message with the world by contacting us at hybridmedia.com. Thanks for listening and keep partnering with God in your business.