And she's focused on bringing Apple's largest products to their retail stores to new countries. And she successfully launched Apple's retail operations into Mexico, Korea, and Austria. And she most recently has been working on technology initiatives to support the future of Apple retail. I know a lot of our listeners are listening on their iPhones and such. And she just has a passion to really help believers in the workplace to live out their faith in a way that gets attractive to data. And she's also the co-leader of the Apple Christian Fellowship Employee Resource Group. So I know we have a lot of focus on Christian business owners and just kind of leadership in business, but from kind of the mid-level of a massive publicly traded company like Apple or Google or Facebook or one of these companies, Christine provides very interesting context for us to kind of get some lessons on how to what does that look like in Silicon Valley in particular? And maybe something that you can learn to apply in your organization. So Christine, welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_01Hey Darren, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so what's got up to in Silicon Valley? By the way, did I say it the cool way? Because I heard people saying Silicon Valley. And then it seems like the people who really are in the know say Silicon Valley. Is that right?
SPEAKER_01Who knows? I mean, I say Silicon Valley.
SPEAKER_03Okay, that's that must be correct.
SPEAKER_01What comes off of my my lips these days. Um but again, it's it's a melting pot here. So you'll you'll hear all kinds of different you know pronunciations and terms.
SPEAKER_03So sure, sure.
SPEAKER_01I will begin by saying it's an exciting time here for many different reasons. I would say um one trend that I've personally been excited about is how God is connecting communities of Christians within large companies as well as across companies. And I personally feel like that's been uh growing more rapidly over the past like three to four years through different ministries that have been growing here in the Bay Area, such as the Faith and Work Movement um nonprofit ministry, which was started by a pastor uh about four or five years ago. Um and this pastor actually came to the Bay Area in Mountain View specifically to plant a church. And he quickly realized, uh, being in Mountain View that his neighbors included the residential area on one side and then Google. And um he started to pray for the community around him and including Google. And pretty soon he met a believer who worked at Google and um just started to meet with with this individual. And pretty soon, you know, the the Christian who was working at Google introduced him to other believers from other companies, um, like LinkedIn and Apple and and others. And um this pastor, you know, then had this growing list of of believers and figured, hey, it's great that I'm meeting them, but they should really meet each other. And one of the things that he did was started to host really a really simple thing, a workplace worship night. And um just to bring together these believers from the different companies on, you know, a Friday night or a weekend evening at a local venue, and it was just a time for Christians from different companies to worship together, to pray together, to meet one another, and to grow in friendship. And I was one of the first attendees of these workplace worship nights back in 2015. And, you know, fast forward four years or so later, and I've become really good friends with with folks from the different companies that I've met through through these events and um have seen a growth in in attendance as well as representation of organizations. Um and and God is continuing to move these communities of Christians toward bigger impact, including, you know, actually uh next month at the end of June, a group of us, uh colleagues of mine from Google and other companies will be were invited to attend the global workplace forum in Manila. And we'll be sharing a bit about our story and what God is doing in our context to help energize the global workplace movement.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's so awesome. By the way, what uh what pastor and what church is that?
SPEAKER_01So you can learn more about this ministry on faithandworkmovement.org. That's probably the best way to find out about it. I would spell that all out, faithandworkmovement.org.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Got it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And um, because there's one pastor, uh, his name is Andy. I don't know if that's the same one you're talking about.
SPEAKER_01Nope. Uh Pastor Roy.
SPEAKER_02Oh, Pastor Roy. Okay, okay. Yeah. I'd heard about a couple of different pastors going out there and um and and really seeking to make an impact. And and uh and I'm sure there are more, but um, but thank God for this ministry that that's um that's been rallying together other like-minded believers from from other companies there in in uh Silicon Valley. Uh, because I mean we're talking a lot of a lot of people, a lot of people that um that are are just they're humans and they need Jesus.
SPEAKER_01So um so tell us about and I think yeah, oh go ahead. I would I was just gonna add, I think too, in in a place like Silicon Valley, it can feel very lonely um to be a Christian in your workplace, especially in a large tech company. Often feedback that I hear and have personally experienced as well is this sense that you're you know, this this feeling of, oh, am I the only Christian around here?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And what these communities, these these, you know, events, fellowship nights, uh, Christian employee resource groups, etc., have been fostering is a sense of community amongst Christians and um and and really encouraging people and reminding them that they are not alone.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And when um that is unlocked, then you begin to pay more attention to where the Holy Spirit is working and it creates an opportunity to operate differently throughout the day when suddenly you realize, you know, God is at work here. I am not alone. I'm here for a bigger reason than myself. So that's been really cool.
SPEAKER_02Indeed. And our our listeners who've listened to this podcast for a while would they probably heard me tell the story of when I was leaving the Air Force base and going over those railroad tracks, and the Lord spoke to me and said, This base is your ministry. Well, something I haven't shared was I kind of had that same complex where I I thought that I kind of felt lonely. I felt like I was the only Christian, you know, and it it just it's always kind of an arrogant kind of way to approach your uh your workplace. And the Lord spoke to me through uh the book of Acts where Paul comes into court, which was a very even place uh even in those days. And and and Paul was very afraid because he felt so lonely. And the Lord spoke to him there in the red letters in in the book of Acts. I want to say it's like Acts chapter 18, where it says, Don't do not be afraid for I have many in that place. And that was really a paradigm shift for me in the Air Force, um, which I'm turned in some ways not unlike working at a big publicly traded company like like Apple, that if if we will just ask God to connect us, connect us with other believers, you might bring a Christine along our path. And um, what's what's that that experience been like for you? Like how how did you go from kind of feeling in that lonely place to kind of first starting to connect with some Christians in your workplace?
SPEAKER_01Great question, Darren. And I'm gonna backtrack a little bit and share. I grew up in a Christian family and um, you know, was one of those kids that was taught to memorize Bible verses like John 3, 16, and of course Ephesians 6:1, children obey your parents in the Lord. Oh, starting at the age of two, right? I I thankfully, through um my family and the ministry of of my local church, um got uh was able to develop a personal relationship with Jesus at age seven and received the gospel then and made the decision to be baptized at eleven. And um and then I went to college and you know, God really showed up for me in new ways then as well. I think for the first time I started to ask um questions like, why do I believe what I believe? And is is God's love really real? Because when I the evaluated my life at that time at 18 or 19, I really started to think deeply about what did I think about? You know, what did I really spend my time on? Who was I really spending my time with? As I did a bit of an audit of my thoughts and time and and priorities, and um I started to realize, you know, it just didn't add up. This love that I professed for God was not manifesting in um in in these areas of my life. And so that led me to pray. And I started to ask God at that time, like, God, would you reveal your love to me in a way that's tangible so that it materially impacts the way that I live my life every day? And I started to ask as well, like, God, would you teach me how to love you? And in that process, God really answered. He um, yeah, I'll I I won't go into all the details, but he he he brought people into my life that showed his love to me in very tangible ways that there was no logical reason for it except that they loved God. Um, and then at the same time he brought me to his word, and I think it's in John 14 when Jesus puts it very simply that you know, if you love me, you'll obey my commandments.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that was a bit eye-opening, and I you know, and I started to ask myself, Oh, do I know Jesus' commandments? So I started digging into the Bible. And um and Jesus thankfully makes things pretty simple, right? He's asked, What are the greatest commandments? and he answers very, very simply, uh, to love God and to love our neighbors as ourselves. And he commands his disciples to love one another so that others would know that we're really his disciples. And so clinging on to those things, you know, I've just continued to ask God, what does it look like for me to be in pursuit of obedience to these things that are not optional? Because these are commands. As a Christian, they're not optional for me. What does it look like for me to intentionally pursue obedience to those things, to those things every moment of every day, including where I spend the majority of my time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, which happens to be, you know, in a large publicly traded company. Uh I will I will say coming out of college, because I started my career in management consulting for a large firm and was um doing strategy and operations consulting work for other high-tech companies here in Silicon Valley and beyond as well. And I will say that I had more trouble figuring out what this all looks like. An example, I didn't know as a new college grad, you know, entering the workforce, being put in these meetings, going on travel engagements, et cetera. Like I I didn't know. Was I allowed to pray? Like, could I say that I went to church on Sunday? Would that be okay? Is that gonna impact how you know people are gonna review me or think my competence, et cetera? So I remember coming out out of college and being a bit more um unsure uh about how to navigate, you know, living at my faith practically in the workplace. And um, but I learned and you know, through the help of different leaders in my life, I started to grow in my confidence and in my sense of identity of that that I am a daughter of the most high king through Jesus Christ. That's who I am. No matter where I am.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_01And it was that that realization, you know, I think it started to solidify more as I got older, as I got more experienced, as I got deeper into the word. And so when I moved, when I got the opportunity to join Apple a few years ago, I made a very intentional decision that this was gonna be my opportunity to be consistent, to be who God says I am, no matter where I am, from day one.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01And so for me, it that was a pretty intentional choice and decision because of my experience at my prior company, kind of nap navigating through that. And so an example of this is I remember on my first day at Apple, I we go through this new employee orientation half day thing, and then your your your manager or folks from your team usually pick you up after the new employee onboarding, and then we go to lunch together. And I remember that first day, and um I went to lunch with my team and they're great. And one of the first things that they said to me was, Oh, I hope you don't mind. We curse a lot. And I said, No, I mean, I I I don't mind. I personally, you know, prefer not to, but I you know, I'm not gonna police your, you know, your language or anything like that. So I kind of I just said, no, I don't mind. But then I also added and I said, this is as we were sitting down for lunch, I also added and I said, Well, I hope you don't mind. I pray before I eat. And they kind of just laughed at me, but they said, Yeah, we don't mind, that's fine. And so I prayed before I ate. And so that was my very first day at Apple. And that really, I think, set the tone for me on how I wanted to be. I wanted to be consistent in my identity in Christ and live that out practically, even if it were to be uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I'm sure that some of our listeners that are working in large companies like that where they just they feel that loneliness that you described a little bit earlier. And I know I experienced some of a lot of that, let's say a lot of that in the Air Force, especially early on. And a lot of it was because uh I felt like there were no other Christians there. And I felt like uh it would just kind of be against the world, which again is just not like first of all, you and God is a majority. And then in a place, especially a company in America, there are going to be Christians in that company. Like that's just the reality of it. Um I mean, I there was a lot of a lot of profanity. I mean, profanity sounds like something that, okay, we're in 2019, like stop being prudent and get over yourself. Like like how how but how did you uh how did you deal with that? I mean, did you at what point did you start to come in contact with other believers who shared your values?
SPEAKER_01Great question. And that's where, to my surprise, I had I had found the diversity and inclusion, you know, in internal website um at work, and I found a link to the Apple Christian Fellowship Employee Resource Group page. And I my job kind of dropped at that point because that didn't exist at the prior company that I was a part of. Um and so I was just ecstatic that this existed and I plugged in to one of the small groups that was meeting near near my office location. And so I was able to immediately plug in with other believers through the existence of the Application Fellowship Employee Resource Group.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I was a little bit blessed and unique in that way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, what is the perception of this group um uh kind of among people that are not a part of it across the Apple campus, would you say?
SPEAKER_01I mean, we have Apple has over 120,000 employees across multiple countries, or it's really hard for me to make a general um statement on what the perception is, but I will say that um I am overall grateful of the focus that Apple does have around inclusion and diversity. And so it's yeah, it's been it's been a a blessing to just be a part of that that program and that overall focus. And you know, there are a lot of things that I've been grateful that we've been able to do, like internal large events and and and activities that I realized you know, not not not everyone is is able to to be supported to do, but with our focus on inclusion and diversity and the belief and that comes from the very top, really. Um with our CEO being vocal about it and and we have new um yeah we we we have leaders that are being very vocal about it and so that that has definitely helped um yeah create create belonging and um visibility for groups like uh the Apple Christian Fellowship right well you know the there is a perception in America right now that diversity and inclusion kind of means everyone except Christians have you ever interesting have you ever had a sense of that or is it just because it sounds almost kind of utopian there um personally I will say that I mean it it it is it it can definitely be a a a a challenge to be vocal about your faith. I do think in general in the San Francisco Bay Area as one of the least churched and least religious places in the world it in in general yeah it is it is a um uh a challenge to be vocal about your Christian faith. I think there's this I think Christianity in a lot of ways has a branding problem. Where and this isn't you know this isn't unique to to I think this community I'm sure many Christians in in other parts of the world might experience or other parts of the US certainly would experience this and you know there is this branding problem I think that we face that when you say or you come out as a Christian there are these assumptions about your political stance um or and and your beliefs around um gender etc which um yeah which which may um cause people to not be as open to you yeah um is that is that okay what what do you think in a place like Apple is it is it okay to take that approach I think personally I go back to what I am commanded to do and that's to love my neighbor as myself personally I I recognize that I have blind spots uh in terms of you know my understanding of people of different experiences um different lifestyles than me and so for me instead of pulling away from that I tend to lean in and seek to understand seek to get uncomfortable um and an example of that is um yeah I I I have uh a blind spot just because I didn't grow up knowing anyone who um identified as transgender as an example um and it's just it again it's an identity and experience that is new for me and even uh even even now. However you know at at work I get a chance to work alongside people with different experiences like that and learn more about them as people and grow an understanding and have conversations and um and in turn they ask questions about me and who I am what I believe and why I do what I do. And it for me personally has deepened um my empathy and understanding and and friendship with folks that are different from me. And and I think um and I know for maybe for for some Christian groups that might feel controversial but um I I again with the goal of um creating inclusion and belonging for for everyone I I see it as part of my opportunity being a co-leader of a of a Christian employee resource group in a large company to play a role in loving others and being an an agent of creating belonging and inclusion for them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah well yeah it certainly is I mean we're not going to get very far in terms of representing Jesus uh accurately if we're not understanding or at least seeking to understand people. I think it's one of those those uh Dale Carnegie principles first to understand then to be understood uh and and so without taking the time uh or removing some of those those barriers that prevent us from being able to walk across the room and and uh find out kind of where somebody's coming from there there's not going to be any open dialogue there's not and and because people either want what we have or they don't they either they either want they either see our lifestyle as attractive or they don't and um and and a lot of that just comes down to how we're and Jesus is very attractive. I mean like when you really get to know him and and when somebody has the opportunity to get to know you as they do in the workplace I mean like no other I mean outside of our family unit at home I mean there's no other place where we're gonna be known uh not even in our local churches on Sunday morning. I mean that's that's where we become known in the workplace.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah and I think ultimately um for me living out my faith in the workplace um is is multidimensional. God has been teaching me to expand my view of success I think growing up in the context that I grew up in and in in this in in our culture like we have this really interesting word culture right that's focused on the outcome or the project the result what's the tangible metric that comes out of this right and there's that overemphasis on the outcome or the the the the work itself which I do believe is important to God. I mean we can talk on and on about theology work but I I do believe work matters to God. So I think that's great. And I think um we can grow more like Jesus in and through that work output. But in addition to that I also think about how am I growing more like Jesus in my character um in love, joy peace patience kindness goodness baseless gentleness self-control like throughout the day in my thoughts and my speech and the way that I go about my work um how am I growing like Jesus in my character and then also how am I growing more like Jesus in my relationship right I think about Philippians 2 and um the word of God says to do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit um but to consider you know not not only my interest but the interest of others and it goes on to talk about the example of Jesus who you know willingly um surrendered himself to the will of the Father even unto death. Yes and I you know practically as I seek to pursue obedience to Jesus in my workplace I ask myself am I growing in love for my coworkers and what does that look like am I you know what are my motivations here throughout the day and again I I fail at this every day I'm sure but it's that constant pursuit of growing more like Jesus in my character in my relationships as well as in the quality of my work and trying to maintain a more holistic view of those things is part of part of my daily pursuit and how I want to envision success.
SPEAKER_02Yeah um yeah yeah well so what would be you're about to in about a week's time from the recording of this interview you are about to host a work in faith workshop to to help folks from from all across Silicon Valley Facebook, Google Apple kind of learn how to start an employee resource group, a faith-based employee resource group for those who are not able to make it to that event what would be your advice for someone wanting to start something like this at their own company that maybe is not as some of the CEOs we've had come talk on this on this show have you know they they work for CEOs that are not like that, that are not necessarily open to this kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01What would be your advice uh for people in those situations yes um well first I invite people to learn more on our website work in faithworkshop.com that's a place they can learn and there's also a national Christian employer resource group network that has been meeting for years and that's another avenue where folks from different parts of the country that are not here in the Bay Area can connect locally with other believers who are stewarding these types of communities in their companies. I would also add that if you are out there and you're working for a company and you don't have a formal faith-based employee resource group and you're feeling alone I would invite you to continue to pray that God would bring you in touch with at least one other believer in your workplace and there are ways to do that whether that's leveraging internal communication goals for example I have an example of a friend who you know messaged in an internal company Slack channel are there any Christians here and see what happens um and the other option is to reach out to local your local church like do you like I don't know like it and and say hey I work at this company anyone else there um I know I have gotten connected with other folks you know through through that kind of outreach and um and I know others have as well and so and I would say start just start with something um you know the the journey toward a faith-based employer resource group is a unique one and it does not always happen overnight but that does not mean um you can't start somewhere and maybe that just means you know if you do get in touch with another believer you start meeting at lunch and you talk and you pray together. Yeah and see what God does there. And I assure you um he will he will reveal in time as you pray and you meet together consistently he will reveal in time what the right next steps are and when when to pursue them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah because I mean doing bringing your faith into the workplace living your faith out in the workplace is not uh individual just an individual thing it's not about just being a Christian in the marketplace it's really about being the church in the workplace and and because it's a team support and you have to have other believers I mean if if you don't have another believer you you better go make one um at least don't you guys you know because you're gonna need that that support and and um because that's that's really what what God has in mind is not just about being a like a superhero Christian that's the only Christian around but no he's looking to gather his people and and like you said the problem is yeah and if there were Christians when Paul came in the Corinth I mean just a few years after Jesus rose again I mean there are definitely Christians in your area.
SPEAKER_01So yeah and and I will say um I find it on average it is difficult sometimes for Christians to talk about work at church.
SPEAKER_02Yeah so you know I would say take that step and seek intentional prayer support from your church community if you haven't already and you know push your you know local church communities to to help you to help you connect uh with other believers um at your company because sure enough they're probably going to church somewhere right uh yeah well work in faithworkshop.com is the website uh Christine thank you so much for taking the time out of your uh out of your work day I know you're you're getting to work from home today which is awesome um but we sure have been encouraged uh and um may God continue to bless uh your your ministry we appreciate you all right thanks Aaron I appreciate it we hope you've enjoyed this we've greatly appreciated if you appreciate a quick rating and review for the first general minutes of podcast on my team if we get more information about each other podcasting that's got each other