Welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast with host Darren Sheer, an initiative of the RGW Dunham College of Business at Houston Baptist University. This is the show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. You can get more information about HBU Center for Christianity and Business and sign up to receive free access to all features of the Christian Business Review Journal by visiting our website at ChristianityInbusiness.com.
SPEAKER_02On this episode, we're joined by my good friend Tyler McCart. Tyler, we go we go back quite a few years. Ever since I really started to kind of you know get out there and start writing articles and doing podcasts, things like that. We've been connected ever since then. So I think what's it been about six years, something like that, buddy?
SPEAKER_01At least six years, Darren. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Well, so excited to be able to do this with you. Tyler McCart, for those of you who don't know him, is a business-to-business sales expert, currently specializing in the K-12 and higher education markets. And he is also the host of the SuccessEd podcast, which helps marketplace Christians live out a biblical definition of success in their professional and personal lives. And he has a special gift to teach Christian sales professionals how to be Holy Spirit-led in the marketplace. You can check out his website at thesuccessedge.biz. Tyler, welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Darren. Looking forward to this. I appreciate you inviting me on here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so we've been needing to hear from somebody that is the sales expert that you are that can give us a biblical perspective on that. You know, we've heard from a lot of business owners, but we we really want to hear specifically on the sales profession here on this particular episode. So what are some of the unique challenges you've faced as a Christian sales professional that maybe non-Christian sales professionals don't usually face?
SPEAKER_01Well, uh, first off, um the first thing that comes to mind is just integrity. And um, you know, a you know, vocabulary basically of you know not cussing. I was on the phone today uh with a salesperson that, you know, um they have a I'll call a lack of vocabulary and um use different words, but you know, that's more of kind of just the moral side of you know being a you know upfront, you know, predictable salesperson, you know, that you know, for the most part, you know, most, you know, I guess non-Christians, you you will find them out there that are predictable, that are um worthy. You will find that actually, unfortunately, you know, with other, you know, Christian salespeople that, you know, from a moral standpoint uh and aren't exactly that level of have integrity uh or you know, being predictable about what they're saying and what they're doing. Um, so I think the challenge, you know, when I first started out in sales was, you know, getting established is all right, you know, I'm gonna do what I say, I'm gonna do the best I can do with what I say. And if I can't do it, I have to be honest with you about what I'm doing, that I can't do it. And uh so, you know, those were kind of the early challenges for me, was just just from an integrity and moral compass aspect of sales right there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because I mean the culture is does it can I make money doing this? If so, money is really what matters. I mean, this in the sales profession. I I was just watching uh some old episodes of Shark Tank, and there was a very uh morally questionable, really not questionable at all, is a very uh immoral type of business. And so the sharks were kind of split on a moral uh question. And one of them said, Well, this isn't morality tank, this is shark tank, because the only thing that matters is does it make money? And and one of those, one of the guys said, you know, I I really disagree with that because it's not all about money for me. And and that's that's the case as a Christian. I mean, if that's really who we are at our heart, that's the kind of fruit we bear. And and so I I think there's why don't you speak to maybe those who don't understand the pressure uh of being in a sales profession? I mean, you're actually on the road right now in the trenches, you know, talking to your to your clients and prospects uh about um you know making some of these uh purchases. I mean, what is that? I know, and you've been doing it so long, it might be even hard to imagine what it would be like to just have a guaranteed paycheck every single day where you know you're not doing on a commission basis, things like that. Um, you know, what is how how how how could you define some of that pressure?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um I mean the pressure, I I just remember sitting across from a gentleman, um, Darren, this was whenever I was early on in my sales career. And, you know, this gentleman, he actually uh we'll call him George. And George, you know, he would meet up with me at Starbucks, and he was, you know, let's call it just a little bit more mature uh gentleman uh than I was. And he was in the life insurance business. And you know, he had met me through a chamber event. And um, I remember sitting down with George, uh, he he obviously wanted to sell me some life insurance and he wound up actually doing that. But we kept in contact uh because he he felt you know that hey, here's a nice guy that you know is a Christian and I'm a Christian and so forth like that. Um and you know, you've got this um this sense from him that you know he he was you know really trying to generate business uh on an ethical level. And he was, you know, again attended a great church and so forth. But you know, when I started meeting with George multiple times, um I could just sense this just overwhelming pressure from him. The of I've got to hit my quota every month, right? Or I I have some sort of goal and I've got to hit this deadline or hit this, you know, uh mark. And that's that's the thing with sales. I mean, I I'm dealing with that right now in my own career, right now, because I'm you know starting up with a new company, and the territory that I have is extremely green, and it's actually never it hasn't been touched in the last you know seven or eight years. And you know, people haven't even heard of the company I'm with. Um, but there's this, you know, unspoken pressure or unseen pressure that wants to kind of latch on to. And that's what I saw with George early on. I mean, this is probably the time I'm talking to with George, it's probably at least, you know, I think it's yeah, 10, you know, a little over 10 years ago. And whenever I was just sitting there talking with George, and you know, we had made exchange leads, it was almost like it was he was almost seemed like in a race and in a in a hurried-up sense all the time. And you could tell it was taking a toll on, you know, not just his mental standpoint, but you know, his physical standpoint too. Um, where that, you know, he, you know, for the age that he was in, he he he just wasn't as vibrant. And he'd been in sales for many, many years. Okay, and he'd been a Christian for many, many years. And I remember at that time when I was sitting down with with George, I remember it was kind of like a crossroads for me. It was back in 2008, and I remember it was a crossroads for me because I was at that time as a young professional Christian salesperson. Because I for me, my selling and my Christianity, they're hand in hand. It's not I'm a salesperson on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and then on Sunday I show up as a Christian. No, I I bleed it, it's it's it's in my blood. Okay, you can't separate the two. So whenever I was sitting there with George, I remember I was learning all this stuff about, you know, look, um, that I don't have to stress, I don't have to be under dress, I don't have to toil if I am doing exactly what God wants me to do, and I realize that God's going to meet my needs. And at the end of the day, God writes my paycheck.
SPEAKER_02And that's like a whole different system than what George was operating in, right? Talk a bit about yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And and that's that's kind of where I was at at the time. Um, and you know, granted, here I was probably at the time I was, you know, 2008. Um, goodness, I'm I'm a nice young 42 year, 40, 41 years, listen to me 42, 41 years young right now. Um, so that was 10, you know, 10, 11 years ago. So whatever, I was 34, 30, 33, 34 years old, somewhere in there. And I still had actually been in, you know, outside of sales uh really since I got out of college. And so I'd already had at least you know, a good, you know, you know, what 10, 10, 11, 12 years, you know, in outside of sales. And I knew that I needed to make a change. And so what I started to come to understand as a person of faith, uh, as a Christian, that there are clearly two systems. You've got the kingdom of God system, and then you've got the kingdom of darkness or the world system, ever how you want to look at it. You know, in Genesis, it clearly says this that, you know, when Adam um did what he did in the garden by eating eating the fruit, all right, that it says that cursed is the ground you will walk in. Well, God didn't curse the ground, Adam was the one that cursed the ground. Okay, I don't want to get into that right now, but that's just the way it was. And so all of a sudden, in ushered for the first time ever, the curse. So it's this earth's curse system. There's this kingdom, the system that started to, you know, kind of permeate through the whole entire earth at that time. Well, flash forward to Jesus arriving on the scene, and Jesus didn't just come to um, and this is just what I learned, by the way, Darren. Jesus didn't just come to actually save us from our sins, which that was one of the pieces he did, which I praise God for, and make sure that you know we become a children of God, which I praise God he did. But he, if he came to reestablish a new kingdom, to actually usher that back in. And he says this so many times in the in the gospels that you know the kingdom of God is like this, or the kingdom of God is like this, the kingdom of heaven is at hand. And so I began to study that, and all of a sudden I started realizing that me, being who I who I am as a Christian, citizen, as a Christian, I am now a citizen of the most high God. So I had to change allegiance into the kingdom of God and as a child of the most high God versus living how the world was, you know, not just from a moral standpoint, but really even how I operated on a daily basis. Okay. And, you know, from that time of me renewing my mind to the, you know what, I'm in the king, I'm in the kingdom of God, and I can operate much differently than the typical salesperson, okay, that is done that he, you know, he might be an unbeliever and he might even be a Christian, but he's still operating in the world's way. Okay. I think so. That was the first thing whenever I was sitting with George at that time, that I'm like, you know what? I I'm on a new path. I'm I'm renewing my mind to this. I'm going to become, you know, this kingdom citizen, this underneath a new government of God. And uh that was a big change for me at that time.
SPEAKER_02And so in this, in this journey, as you have been walking in this new system, you've discovered a series of principles. And by the way, if you're a Christian salesperson, uh which really, I mean, I if if you're a business owner or you know, nothing happens till something sells. I can't remember who said that. Sales sales is pretty good. Maybe Zig Ziggler. And we all better be doing it on some level. Yes. But but it's Tyler really, you got to reach out to Tyler, um, the successed.biz. You can learn more about him and uh and connect with him there because I think he really has something in particular for Christian sales professionals. And I get these questions all the time. Um, I I don't have quotas from um from a company. I mean, I've with my publishing company, I mean, yeah, there's quotas to keep the doors open and everything, but I haven't been in that uh that position where that's your sole purpose is to get out there and sell. Um but Tyler has uh he just has such revelation on this. What are some of those principles you have discovered? You talk about the Potifer principle. Uh, and I'm I'm just gonna give people a sneak peek. This is gonna be coming in a book, right, Tyler?
SPEAKER_01It is, Darren. Thank you for announcing that to the world. Yes.
SPEAKER_02The Potifer principle. The Potifer Principle, tell us about that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it kind of ties in with that whole entire Kingdom Citizen um show. So back in that 2008 uh time period, I really was meditating on the life of Joseph. Okay. And you can go and read in Genesis uh about Joseph, but it really was kind of around Genesis 39. And here Joseph was a representation of someone in the marketplace. He, okay, this is marketplace. We're talking marketplace stuff, all right? So he's he's a slave under Potiphar's house, but in an in kind of a parallel sense, he's almost a modern day Jesus, right? And the reason I say that is because he literally saved his whole entire family, his whole entire, you know, really the world, right? But anyway, Potiphar did something extremely interesting inside that inside that story that gives you a clue to where your allegiance lies between what system you're going to serve. Potiphar, it says in Genesis 39, it says Potiphar placed in Joseph's hands everything he owned, minus the bread. He didn't know anything else was going on other than the food before him. And it says clearly that when he did that, everything in his house was prosperous and blessed. Okay? So much so that he, you know, his house flourished so much that he didn't even have to think about anything else other than what was being put before him. And Potiphar, and this is really good right here, Potiphar was able to, because he had placed his whole entire, you know, everything inside Joseph's hands, Potiphar was able to focus on his assignment as the chief executioner, okay, for Pharaoh. So the principle for me and the principle for us is that when you change governments, when you change into the system, you were literally changing into something that you are going to receive a tremendous amount of blessings from. You know, underneath the kingdom, you have no worries, you have no fears, you have no concerns, you were actually almost a bubble being wrapped around you, so to speak, of anything that external of the world going on, because that is the picture of what Potiphar did in that story whenever he put all of his stuff into Joseph's hands. So as a salesperson, as a salesperson, you know, who are you serving? Who are you working for? Right? Who who are you trying to make ends meet for? Um, you know, that therein lies the question of, you know, when you wake up, when you get going, you know, are you really working unto the Lord? Or are you working onto that corporation that you're working for, or that quota, or trying to hit the certain number, or you know, get that quarterly bonus that you've been striving for. And, you know, quite honestly, when you put all those things, I mean, your quota, your goals, your, you know, your business, your, your, the products you're developing, um, you know, the income that's supposed to be coming into your house, when you take all of those things, not just your problems, but all those things and put them actually into, you know, quote unquote, not Joseph's saying, the, you know, Christ's, you know, blessing underneath that kingdom, everything changes.
SPEAKER_02So good. Tell us about the granddaddy principle.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So this is this is actually in Mark um chapter four, verse 13. And this is a principle that I had to kind of come to grips with uh myself, because this is the you know, principle of the kingdom. This is almost the the granddaddy law or granddaddy principle of the whole entire kingdom of God, so to speak. Because Jesus is actually teaching in Mark chapter four about you know, uh, the sow or so is the word, you know, some fall on you know, rocky soil, some fall on thorns and thistles, and some fall on good ground. Well, and they and they spring up. Well, inside there, he says this to the disciples, you know, when they come to say, Hey, master, you know, why are you telling these stinking stories? Right? I mean, I don't even understand them. You know, come on. And Jesus is like, dude, you guys are boneheads, right? If you can't understand this story or this principle, how are you to understand anything else I say? So the principle is sowing and reaping, right? Uh giving and receiving. We we see these principles uh and they're they're they've been around since the beginning of time. Okay. Now, how that applies in the kingdom, okay. So here we go. All right, since we changed governments, this this is where we have to be. In the world system, in the world system, it is all about buying and selling. How much can I profit off of you so that I'm able to stay ahead of things? Whereas in the kingdom, or when you change governments, all of a sudden, now it the the main thing is sowing and reaping. How can I give to you because I know that in everything will happen, will come back to me in a form of receiving, and it will be actually pressed down, shaken together, running over more than what I can even imagine they could have been. All right. I read the um just as a great book. It's actually a fantastic book that I would hands down recommend to anybody, and it's called Um The Go Giver. Um, and that book is a storybook, it's a parable book uh for a modern day salesperson uh that under came to understand this principle. And it has a follow-up book to it, The Go Giver Sells More. And for me, when I read that book, you know, what, now seven or eight, nine, ten years ago, that was kind of my picture in my head that I needed to see what it looked like in the real world of sowing and reaping and being a part of the kingdom. Okay. And um, yeah, I just so what does that look like for a salesperson?
SPEAKER_02What does that look like for you?
SPEAKER_01So I'll just give you a quick story. Um, several years ago. When I was just learning this principle, I remember there was a little bit of a lack going on in my quota. And I was probably in the middle of or the beginning of Q2. All right. And I noticed that my my sales trend wasn't exactly trending in the right way. Right. And so I said, okay, all right. If I have a need in the kingdom, this is how the kingdom works, and part of being a Christian, if I have a need, I need to sow a seed. All right. I need to go and find an opportunity that God's going to put before me and sow into that. All right. And lo and behold, a couple of uh days, maybe I don't know if it was maybe a couple of days, it might be a week later, I got a phone call from an account manager uh that was a counterpart of mine, actually in the sales organization I was with. And um his name was we'll just call him John. And John called me up and he said, Hey, Tyler, look, I normally wouldn't ask you anything to help me out with anything, but I really need your help. I'm like, okay, sure, John, go ahead, buddy. He says, I've got a trade show that I need an extra set of hands. I'm going to my largest account, and they're going to have probably about 150 people come through there, and I just can't handle all of that at one time. I need another person to come and help me out. Can you do that for me? And I and so I had an option, right? I had a choice right then and there. I can take my precious time where I could be going out and making my own sales calls, or I can take that whole entire day of potential selling and give it to John where I'm getting no benefit from John or what John's gonna reap from him himself. I and this is just how it all worked out. And I'm like, all right, this is an opportunity for me to sew, I'm gonna do this. And I said, sure, John, absolutely. So I uh went uh that whole entire day, you know, from basically early in the morning till all the way till about four o'clock in the afternoon. I mean, it was all about John's account. It was all about, you know, uh helping John, promoting, uh, promoting what we were doing for John's uh account, helping them know how to buy from John and all those different things that go along with selling. And, you know, about 150 end users uh came through that day. And John and I were able to help. And man, John, at the end of the day, he was like, Tyler, thank you so much. I really appreciate this. This is such a blessing to me. You know, if there's anything I can do to help you out, let me know. I said, John, don't worry about it. It was glad I was able to do that. Well, flash forward, probably about a month later. Isn't it interesting that Tyler, that's me, landed about two or three very large profitable accounts that took my numbers and trended them in the correct direction. Hmm. Is that a coincidence? I don't think so. Not in the kingdom, it's not a coincidence. In the world, they would say, Oh, that's just a fluke or whatever, you know. Yeah, that's you know, you got lucky on that. No, it's the kingdom, you know, sowing and reaping this, it it always works. Okay. That's the thing, is that it it always works. I mean, does the sun come up? Yes, the sun go down, yes. So it always works. So that's the thing is that getting a revelation of sowing and reaping and that granddaddy principle will put you over uh in your sales career.
SPEAKER_02So good, so good. Uh I think um I wish we had time to go through so many more of these. Um, I guess we're just gonna have to wait for the book, right?
SPEAKER_01The book will be good.
SPEAKER_02But uh so much wisdom. And I just appreciate uh appreciate you, Tyler. Appreciate how your heart is uh, at least to me, it always seems to be in the right place ever since uh we've been friends and uh been sharpening each other, um getting together a couple times a month for years now, uh uh over Skype. Um and uh even got to stay at your house one time, actually two nights.
SPEAKER_01It was two, it was over two nights there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was uh we got snowed in, and um and there you were being the go-giver again. And um, you know, I just appreciate what you are bringing to the body of Christ and want to encourage everyone to go and listen to what Tyler has to say uh and and not just on sales, but in just being a family man. You know, he's got a beautiful, beautiful family, um, four kids, and it's uh he's just a wonderful, wonderful man of God. Tyler, why don't you leave us with a parting piece of advice today uh for especially for our Christian sales professionals, and then we'll wrap it up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I appreciate it, Darren. Um you know, I I feel that's just what I feel in my spirit right now, that you know, there are business owners out there right now listening to this podcast. They're salespeople, you know, there are um people that touch sales in in some fashion. And you can feel the pressure, you know, you can feel that that gnawing feeling, that little, you know, that thing in the back of your head, knowing that that's that this pressure that that pressure's on you. And as as a born-again believer, you you weren't supposed to succumb to that. You're supposed to overcome it. Okay, because that's what Jesus died for. He died so that you could have life and have a more abundant. And so my recommendation is transfer kingdoms.
SPEAKER_02Well said. Well said. Tyler, thanks again for your time, for your wisdom, and may God continue to bless uh you're on the road right now. May God give you favor right there where you are in um and working with these prospects and clients. And uh thanks again. Appreciate you. Thanks, Darren.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you would leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about HBU Center for Christianity and Business at Christianityandbusiness.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your business.