Welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast with host Darren Sheer, an initiative of the R.T.W. Dunham College of Business at Houston Baptist University. This is the show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. You can get more information about HBU Center for Christianity and Business and sign up to receive free access to all issues of the Christian Business Review Journal by visiting our website at Christianityandbusiness.com.
SPEAKER_01On this episode, we're joined by Ron Kitchens. Ron is the senior partner and chief executive officer of Southwest Michigan First, an economic consulting firm which includes Consultant Connect and the Southwest Michigan First Life Science Fund. He is the publisher of 269 magazine and founder of the leadership conference Catalyst University. And he's the author and co-author of is it three books or four now, Ron? Four books. Four books now, including Community Capitalism and his latest book, Uniquely Uniquely You. And you can learn more about Ron and what he's doing at RonKitchens.com. I'll mention that again at the end. Ron, welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_02Oh, thanks. I'm so excited to be here.
SPEAKER_01So there's this term that you have popularized uh called community capitalism. How do you define that?
SPEAKER_02So it's really a coming together of business, government, um, philanthropy. And by philanthropy, we're we have the church in there. And it really came out of this model of I uh I grew up in in abject poverty. So um my father was illiterate. He suffered from the same form of dyslexia that I did. And so neither um he nor my mother finished the eighth grade. And um, my dad was killed when I was four. Um, he just couldn't read the sign that said, don't do this at work, and it cost him his life. So I grew up knowing that the people I had uh I admired, the people that had what I wanted, all had one thing in common. They had a job. And so I've spent my life trying to figure out how we can change people's lives, how we serve the poor, how we can bring together the resources of business, which has the power to create jobs and wealth with government that um creates the environment. If you don't have good governmental policies, you're not gonna have jobs. But also how we bring philanthropy to that to prepare people and communities for those jobs. So when we look at philanthropy, you know, we you know, philanthropy started really as a Christian invention. You know, the first hospitals to take care of people were were early Christians who were commanded or commanded, you know, by Jesus to take care of their neighbors. And before that, you know, if you had family, maybe you could get somebody to take care of you. Not, you wouldn't. But if we look at, you know, places that have high levels of faith, the men and women of faith, we see tremendous um economic growth that comes from their philanthropy. I uh a few years ago had the opportunity to speak to a bunch of um Russian oil executives, which is a little bit of a scary group, but on philanthropy and how to how this model worked. They couldn't understand the idea and the concepts at all. And then I finally figured out it's because they had no personal faith. They hadn't found Jesus, and they couldn't manifest charity because it was never embedded in their souls, and so this model really comes out of that journey.
SPEAKER_01And they're also coming from you know a socialist background, right?
SPEAKER_02I mean, yeah, where business doesn't create jobs, government demands them. And so they had no concept of I couldn't convince them to be charitable.
SPEAKER_01Sure. So what's the difference, would you say, between regular capitalism and community capitalism?
SPEAKER_02So regular capitalism says, you know, we're gonna make money and that's all that matters. And some of our younger listeners will hear that, and they've grown up in a mission-driven world where you know the tomshoes of the world, you know, have always been in their life a mission, but it isn't very far that we can go back in our history when business thought that their only responsibility was to reap as much profit as possible. We don't believe that, and the companies that we work with understand that business and capitalism have a responsibility to make the world a better place. That may be their only real responsibility. And if they do that, the marketplace rewards them and rewards them with the ability to do more and have more impact and influence. But they've also got to, and and we're we're really lucky right now. This is the greatest time in our history for having young men and women, and I say young, and it's not even that young anymore. Those of us who get to work with people under 40 clearly understand that they are about missional-driven businesses, and they're only going to do work for companies that serve a positive social good. And that's part of the model of community capitalism.
SPEAKER_01Well, then the the response that maybe some people are thinking, uh, especially with all of the you know, the new Green Deal and those things that are being proposed right now in the US, uh, what's the difference between socialism and community capitalism?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so socialism is forced adaptation of resources. Community capitalism is about saying for people to truly thrive, we need government that operates efficiently and creates an opportunity for people to succeed. It we need businesses that value humans and are creating opportunities for those people. And then we need um men and women of goodwill, whether that's you know, church-based model or a just a straight philanthropic model that says we're going to use the resources we have to lift people up to thrive, not to use those resources simply as um band aids. You know, it's very important that we ensure that people um go hungry, that don't go hungry. But it's more important that while they're not going hungry, we ensure that they have jobs in the future. You know, I grew up with this dream of having a job and knew that if I could get a job and help other people do that, that that's what my life's mission was. You know, I believe that the greatest force for change in somebody's life is a job because it gives them the ability to then give back to their church, gives them the ability to take care of their children, gives them the ability to buy a house. It changes their life. And it doesn't just change today with money in their pocket or change tomorrow with the ability to buy a house. It changes future generations. The data is really clear that children who grow up in poverty, homes where poverty is the norm end up living in poverty. Those children who grow up where they don't know poverty also understand that um that they're not going there. My daughter will never know that. You know, and we understand that if you grow up with Christ in your home, the odds that your children will follow Christ uh are exponentially higher than simply stumbling onto our Savior on a street corner. So understanding that we have to treat this as a whole human. You know, too many people go, well, you know, as Christians, we can't focus on business. Or, you know, it was clear that Christ taught us. You know, the story of the Good Samaritan is about a guy who's got money in his pocket and has an obligation to take care of a stranger. You know, he didn't have just an obligation to say, well, here's a band-aid and a coat. Good luck, God bless. He put him in a place and made sure that he got taken care of and made sure he got lifted up. And that's what community capitalism is about is us bringing together resources and ensuring that we do life together, not simply um act in a charitable way, or have some government tell us that, you know, what we must do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And somebody may be listening and thinking, well, you know, that just sounds kind of utopian and like that could never work in the real world. Uh, but you have seen this work there in Kalamazoo. What how has this concept of community capitalism emerged there in Kalamazoo, Michigan?
SPEAKER_02So sure, and we've seen it now all over the country. So, you know, one of the things that we're um most famous for is a scholarship program that we have called the Kalamazoo Promise, 100% privately funded, no governmental dollars in it. Um, so business and philanthropy came forward to support what has been assigned to the government, or we've de facto allowed the government to be in charge, and that's higher education. So we guarantee every child who graduates from Kalamazoo public schools a four-year-year college education. And we with no rules attached, you don't have to major in any particular thing, you don't have to guarantee you're coming back. Now, why did we do that? Well, because we we knew we had to have very high um poverty um indices in a group of these children. We knew in a lot of cases it's a high um uh a large um African American population that just wasn't going to college. So it was in our enlightened self-interest to make sure that we help build people who can then take care of their own community in the future, who will pay the taxes and who will live and work and love in the community and um will thrive. Well people tell us, well, you can do that because you know some rich people who put the money forward or except this program goes back a hundred years to Fisk University, where the Fisk singers, um, to ensure that students going to Fisk could go to college, um, started a traveling singing group that would go to church to church, town to town, singing, passing the plate, and would raise enough money to cover the scholarships for four years for those students. You know, we look at the African Children's Choir, same exact thing. A children's choir that comes from Africa, travels church to church, people are passing the plate, and those children not only get their lower education, but their their siblings get all of their education through college paid for from that. So if we as men and women of good faith decide we can change the world there, we can change the world for those folks. We just need to come together and agree upon what can be successful. You know, our you know, there's great examples from um a faith-based program in Cincinnati, Ohio called Oceans that is a hundred percent focused on building small um startup companies in the urban core. Imagine the power of that. Imagine the power of a large church in Houston, Texas, that decides they're not only going to become the customers of an inner city small business, but they're also going to provide startup funding. The average company in America that starts needs $25,000 of outside funding. But large churches in our country could do that every month. And imagine the power of change and to become a demonstrated physical operation of our Lord by putting our money, our faith, our beliefs, and our community behind people. That's what Christian life looks like.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'm curious about the Kalamazoo Promise Program. Is that for them to go to college anywhere, or is that specifically?
SPEAKER_02Nope.
SPEAKER_01Anywhere in the state of Michigan. Anywhere in the state of Michigan.
SPEAKER_02Yep. We pay for um all public um universities and we now pay for the private small ones as well because we found some kids needed those small environments. So, you know, you mentioned your father went to uh Kalamazoo College. We pay for them to go four years at Kalamazoo College. And if you're a kid who just wants to go two years to a program, what you want to do, fine, we'll pay for two years, but you have 10 years total to use those other two years. So um, you know, we've got a lot of people who get a two-year degree and come back and go, you know what, I want to go into management. I need two more years of education. We got you covered.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It seems like such a benefit of that for uh for Kalamazoo, for Michigan, is that you're yes, they it only applies to the Michigan schools, but you're also really trying to continue to develop Michigan and to make it a thriving, flourishing state. And it reminds me of the the Hebrew model is that the the the funds and they really have lived out this idea of community capitalism in a way that no matter what city or country they're in, that have a way of kind of keeping the the funds and the talent within the the community to an extent, right? That that helps the the entire community to flourish. Are there some parallels there that you're seeing?
SPEAKER_02There are. And you know, it's uh a great example is uh Murphy Oil, which is the gas stations are always in front of Walmart's. Murphy Oil is based in El Dorado, Arkansas, which is a fairly small, impoverished um community. They the Murphy Oil Company um created the El Dorado Promise. They put $50 million forward to ensure that every kid who wants to go to college goes to college and then go anywhere in the country. But then the community and Murphy go out of their way to ensure that those kids come back to the community. They have internships for them in the summer with not-for-profits and for-profits. They're really about creating this um cultural sense of obligation to those to which much is given, much is expected. And that, you know, we all forget that. You know, in Matthew, you know, Jesus teaches us that if we're just merely stewards of our resources, we fail. That for us to be successful, we have to impact the lives of others and not hoard those resources to ourselves. And that's really what this model is all about. It is saying you should thrive and you should do great. Government has to be there in their place to provide um for what they what they can only do. Yeah, but it's really men and women of goodwill investing in each other that will create um really some dynamic um opportunities. Yeah. You know, one of my one of my favorite companies, um, which is not at all a faith-based um company, um, is a company in Philadelphia called Untours. And it was a liberal college professor who was so liberal that um he lost his job as a college professor. I didn't even know that was possible. And I sit as a trustee of a university and didn't know you could be too liberal. And so but his job, and so he started a travel agency, and it has seven or eight employees, but he used all the profits from the agency to start inner city small businesses. So everything from when I was there last, it was a company that was crushing glass recycling bottles and using them to make um you know granite style um countertops for kitchens. Another one was a moving company that did inner city moving for um for offices predominantly, but over a hundred companies and last count that I saw, over 2,500 jobs have been created by this one man who said, I have been given much, I'm in a business that makes a profit, and I want to give back and build my community. Every one of us has the power to do that if we simply understand the power of the dollars that we're spending and the relationships that we're taking for granted.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. You know, this plays out on so many different levels. I mean, I I think about uh a family and a child that's growing up and it's time to go work in your, you know, time to go get a job, right? You're a teenager, it's time to start making some money. And the the parents just you know, send them out wherever. And but they get put in places where the company and the management just might not really care all that much about that kid's development. And but if there was another company in that same community that they could be uh directed toward that could provide that job to give them a safe place, you know, a nurturing environment to help them kind of you know grow and particularly within the Christian community, get discipled. Uh, that really is more of an ideal, but it seems like the there's so little uh thought about um not just sending people out out of your community, but really focusing on trying to keep not not in a you know controlling sort of a way, but to to keep the community uh growing and developing. And you, if you came up within the community, like you know the values, you know the uh the culture. And if if you leave, I mean that it's gonna be that much harder for that community to kind of preserve its culture, right? That's right.
SPEAKER_02And um, and where you you know, you don't want to be, you know, so close that you know, you there's no room for new ideas and new outsiders. But you know, the reality is one of the this time of year, we begin to get lots of emails and resumes and people calling us about internships for the summer and part-time jobs. And the thing that I'm most proud of is how many people whose children are being referred to as who are our clients' kids or the children of suppliers, the people who really know us, and they say, Well, I want I want my kids there because I know not only are they gonna be safe and they're gonna do meaningful, well-paid work, but they're gonna be with people who share the values that I share. I don't have to worry about them being taken advantage of. I don't have to worry about these things from society bleeding in and uh and my my child being worse for the experience. And, you know, if we think about that, and again, in the Christian community, we get scared about those things. Uh about ensuring that you know the community goes beyond Sundays. You know, Sunday is an attendance at church, but community is what we do with each other every day. Yeah, and if we believed that, then one, we'd want the people who most shared our values, who we fit with the best, to be around us more and more of our lives. Right. So we would actively be working towards that, and then to expand that, we would be going to other communities of faith, other folks, and saying, Let's become friends. We're really all in the same um in this same tribe and community, let's nurture those relationships. And when you begin To compound the value of that, it's like compounding money. It be the returns is so high, it shocks you. You have to read that because you don't, it's hard to believe how much compounding interest matters, compounding relationships matter at that same level.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, because there's there's accountability, there's shared values, there's there's just you you grow up and you you adopt those those values. And it it is so clear to me this is the biblical model. I mean, when when God's people left Egypt, he didn't just say, all right, now let's let's divide up into we're gonna divide up into 12 tribes, which you know, of course they were, and then you're just gonna go to the uttermost parts of the earth right now. But no, they went to the same geographical area, and yeah, there was some land division there, but they were still pretty pretty close. Um, and the the problems came when they started separating from each other and kind of going off distant, doing their own things and having their own gods and and all of that. But there's just um this is such a powerful uh principle here, I think the the body of Christ needs to get a hold of. What for somebody and I I meet people from time to time uh in and meeting Christian business professionals who really want to see this happen, like on their main street, they want to see their communities thrive. They're not just focused on kind of the the global village, but really specifically in their their own main street. What advice would you have for somebody who really wants to run with this in their own town?
SPEAKER_02So I think um the first thing is the strength of a small group model, and that's coming together in regular community. Uh, you know, for me being a businessman, you know, that it's weekly, and you know, it's over breakfast and my small group, we come together, and we're not only talking about each other's lives and doing life together, but we're also talking about what's that thing that we want to fix together? What do we want to work on together? Um, you know, today, um, you know, as as I shared with you, we're in the middle of a blizzard. As I was driving into work today, you know, there are people standing at bus stops waiting to go to work or to school in this terrible weather. And I came into my group and I texted everybody and said, we've got to find a way to build bus stops. We've got to find a way to use our dollars to match them because we'll have to deal with government because they regulate those things. But if we can use our capacity along with our philanthropic gifts, and to make sure that people who are doing it the hard way, man, it takes a lot of courage to get up every day to get on a bus to a job that probably doesn't pay that well, or to go to school because you know it's gonna pay off in the end, and stand in the snow and the rain, man, we got to make life just a little easier for those folks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And uh, and so those are the kind of things that come out of being in community with each other and saying we have an obligation to each other, we have an obligation to leave the world better. What are those things we can do, big and little? Not everybody can create, you know, uh a scholarship program, you know, with millions of dollars out every year. But you know, most of us could figure out a way to get a bus shelter built. And uh, and I think that's the challenge. Do what you can with what you have, and I believe you'll be rewarded in multiples of that. Then you have the obligation to use those multiples to then go out and do more.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And to make this even more granular, how about show up to a chamber of commerce meeting in your local area, you know, just see what's see what's going on, like see what the issues are and connect with some of your local business people. I mean, that's one of the challenges I have in running an internet business where my clients are kind of all over the place, all over the country and the world, even, is it's so easy for me to just kind of stay comfortable in my own home office and not get out into the community and you know, shake some hands with some of the local business folks. But, you know, that's something that has become even more uh necessary here in Houston since Harvey. You know, you mentioned the blizzard and the the impact there. Um, I mean, with people losing their homes, losing their businesses, uh, there's been a tremendous coming together of our community here in Houston, I think that I think really resembles a lot of these community capitalism principles you're you're teaching. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02And I uh uh through some relationships I have, um, I uh over the last decade have been to uh I don't know, five or six different communities, very hard hit um by hurricane, by natural disasters, by fires. And that's to talk about this model that we've all got a little something extra that we can put forward, whether it's our time, our talent, our treasures, but we've got something we can put forward to benefit the community. And by doing so, we can really pull each other up. You know, it's uh it as you've seen, and you know, Harvey's a great example where the community and the outside community from all over the country came together around that, but eventually everybody goes home. And it's when they go home that real community forms. And people begin to remember, oh, I know I didn't, you know, I bought from the big box store during the disaster because the little guy was gone, but he's back, and I'm gonna make sure that I go in and do that. I'm gonna make sure that I go to my local chamber of commerce and get a directory of who the suppliers are for my business and begin to buy from them. I mean, the impact of simply buying locally is um is really what economies are about. And if we believe that that's um, you know, that we want to, you know, go by my belief that the greatest force of individual change is a job, then by giving people more and better jobs, they will take care of the rest of their life. And you'll, you know, if our ultimate goal is to see them in church and see them in faith, it's hard to do with an empty stomach and where you're working two or three jobs to take care of your family. This is how we can fix all of that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And with you know, partisanship and just all the division in our country, I think it really is going to take Christians leading the way on this, you know, because we have a bond like no other with our brothers and sisters in Christ. And so kind of like leveraging that um those relationships and and then helping our communities to flourish from there is I think what's going to make the difference in the in the culture and the Great Commission. Um, Ron, tell us about your new book, Uniquely You. Wanted to make sure you got to share about that before we sign off here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so it comes out uh May 21st um on Baker, which is um a faith-based press, Christian press. Um, and um, but it's really a uh leadership business book. So it's about this idea that um over the course of the years, you know, I coach and counsel hundreds of companies and individuals, and everybody is looking to find somebody to copy from. They want to, you know, if I could just get advice from this person, my life would be better. If I could just fake it and copy that person while I'd be better at it. And the reality is every one of us is unique, and we are uniquely gifted to be successful. And our unique story is enough. We don't have to be, you know, like Richard Branson to be successful. Richard Branson's successful because of who he is and how unique he is. And I lived in fear for the first 40 years of my life that people would discover how poor I grew up, they would discover that it took me eight years to get through college, they'd discover that I have a learning disability, that I'm dyslexic. They would discover these things and they would think less of me. And what I found really it was um it was on a journey called the walk to a mess, and it's a three-day men's retreat. And I broke into tears because I got tired of being scared. I just couldn't deal with it anymore, but I didn't know what that meant and what it would mean in my life. And then my journey started uh of deciding I'm gonna tell my story as it is, unvarnished. And what I found was my success multiplied then because people, it was authentic, and people could then relate to it because this highlight reel of everybody else's life seems wonderful, but it's just a highlight reel. All the work and the pain and the tears are behind that, and we'll never have those. So we'll never have what they have. What we have is enough if we just let it manifest itself.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well said, Bron. Ron Kitchens.com is the website. Ron, we sure appreciate you taking the time and sharing your passion and uh your experience and seeing how this uh community capitalism can be such a uh a blessing to communities, to families, and um and to the body of Christ. And we're better for it. Thank you, sir.
SPEAKER_02Darren, thank you, and thanks for this ministry that you're doing in business. It's critical that we tie the two together.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you would leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity in Business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about HBU Center for Christianity in Business at Christianityandbusiness.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical values into your business.