Welcome back to the Theology of Business Podcast with Host Darren Sheer. This is the show that helps marketplace Christians to partner with God in business to help you make disciples of your company, your industry, and your community. If you want to learn more about how to do business for the glory of God and shape culture through discipling the business world, this show is for you. You can get more of the Theology of Business Institute's interviews and teachings like the one you're about to hear at theology of Business.com.
SPEAKER_02On this episode, we're joined by Mark Canada. Mark is the president and CEO of Marketplace and Development Enterprises, a service organization dedicated to helping mature Christ followers who want to use their vocational skills and experience and want to change lives to be Christ ambassadors in unreached communities. And prior to leading Marketplace and Development Enterprises, Mark practiced tax law and started a few businesses over the course of 25 years. And you can go check out the website at buildmde.com. Buildmde.com. We'll mention that at the end of the episode. But Mark, welcome to the Theology of Business podcast. Thank you. Great to be here. So tell us more about the mission of MDE and what you're accomplishing.
SPEAKER_01Sure. So our vision, Darren, is to see thousands of believers going to the marketplaces of unreached communities and being, as you shared earlier, being Christ ambassadors, sharing the good news. And so our mission as an organization is to help fulfill that vision. And so what we do is we provide services and three different arenas to help those folks be value providers in the marketplace and be value providers spiritually to folks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Interesting. You tell them make money, make disciples, kind of in that order. How do you teach that concept to them?
SPEAKER_01Well, uh, yeah, I mean, to me, you have to have a one and a two. And so to me, it could be done in the opposite. The reason we we put the money first is because I think in the world of of missions and as we're thinking about reaching the the lost and the unreached communities, we we tend to put the this the second one, the make disciples, as being the preeminent. And and so we really give that equal weight at MDE. It's about being both. We're called by God to for his glory. And whether that's making money, making disciples, uh, eating a cheeseburger, or I mean, yeah, whatever it is. Whatever we're doing, we're to be doing it for his glory. And so, so part of it is uh is what we're doing as an organization is is just reminding people that of that truth. And so uh we we do provide um business services to folks, vocational services to help them be what God has called them to be in the marketplaces. So in terms of uh uh we help by by by providing those services, and the second thing we do is is again just reiterating that that is uh what God calls many people to do, to go to go work in the marketplace.
SPEAKER_02So can you give us an example of what this looks like when somebody comes to you and says, Hey, I want to go on the mission field. What do you uh what would be an example? Maybe a real world example would be ideal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so real quick, I'll give you three quick ones. Uh we work in three arenas. We work for with people who say, Hey, I'm an employee of three years. We call those our disciple making employees. Um we we help them that hang on one second.
SPEAKER_02It just uh it just cut out for a second. Um somebody comes to you and says, What now?
SPEAKER_01Uh says to you, hey, I'm I'm an employee of X Company and I'm being sent to Shanghai for five years. Um I'm being sent to uh the Middle East to uh to to work. Um that's I'm using a real life example here. So what we do is say, well, well, great, we can come alongside and help you to be intentional about again being a great employee and uh being an intentional disciple maker. The the second arena that we operate in is is the business world. You want to go launch a business. So you want to go launch, and I'm again use a real-world example here that we've helped, you want to go launch a scuba diving business in Malaga, Spain. Uh, we help them provide them services to help them launch and run that business and scale it. Then the the the third arena that we operate in is in the community development. Okay, God is calling me to go help orphans integrate into society in an Asian place. Um we help them think through what what value they're going to bring and then help them accomplish those those purposes. So we we provide services in all three arenas.
SPEAKER_02So are you actually what type of services are you providing? I mean, is there is there funding opportunities? Are there like if I need uh if I'm looking for a job in a place that I've never been, you have uh the connections to be able to help somebody land a job there? Uh what is what does that look like?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So again, as as you mentioned earlier, we're we're a service organization and and what we do uh also the I guess our methodology for doing this, Darren, is uh I tell people we're like we're like Uber or Lyft or uh you know Airbnb is that is that we we connect people that that have those types of um the services that are needed and and connect them. So the the services that we provide are again on our three fronts, uh one is the business side, the second place is the um is the missional side, and the third place is the personal side. On the business side, Darren, what what we do is yeah, it depends on which division you fall in. So you're uh you're not looking to launch a business or create a venture, so you're you're looking for a job. What we do is yeah, we connect you to portals and opportunities as we continue to expand our network. We we tell people we're not a job placement agency, but we we know people who who have those skills, and we know those agencies. We we we vet them, we connect you to them and help you walk through that process. You're an entrepreneur, uh, you want to launch a business, uh, yes, we connect you to people who um who launch businesses. Uh we connect you to people who help businesses legally, uh, bookkeeping, marketing, uh, IT, web design, graphic design. You know, you can't you can't be a business these days and be legitimate without a website. So, okay, so if if you you partner with us, you join us, and we with you, uh we connect you to a believer who is a web designer. And that web designer will help you build your web, won't just help you set smart goals to do it, but we'll actually help you build it. We uh you need to think through the legal structure. We got lawyers that help you think through that. We connected to lawyers here, we connected to lawyers there, and and again provide you with legal services to help you set up a corporation or LLC or whatever it is, whatever the legal structure that is appropriate, we help you to do that.
SPEAKER_02Where did these service providers come from? Did you have these been um folks in organizations that you've used during your career primarily?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's how it got started, right? Is that uh you you go tap your buddies on the shoulder and say, hey, uh uh and again, given the world that I lived in, I lived in the business world, um, corporate world. And so I just I tapped them on the shoulders and said, Hey, you're a marketing person, you're a lawyer, you're an accountant, will you help? And since that time, as as networks tend to do, you know, they tell Sally or Joe, hey, I'm working with Mark and MDE, and it's it's been great. And and so the the network continues to grow, and then you know, the friends of the friend, and and so it's grown that way. And I I don't really know exactly because networks are kind of hard to track uh completely, but yeah, we we have I would say close to probably 200 you know volunteers all told in different arenas right now.
SPEAKER_02And does that include the folks that are actually out in the field that have been deployed out uh to the to these different uh geographical areas?
SPEAKER_01No, on that side, we're currently working with probably about 30 or 40 folks who we call our clients or our members. Uh the the 200 I was referring to are more the the volunteers, the the accountants, the lawyers, the graphic designers.
SPEAKER_02And are there particular geographical areas that you concentrate in that you're you really have the the strongest networks in?
SPEAKER_01No, um so far the again, given the fact that we're a service organization, you know, we're not building teams, we're not focusing on any particular area or country or people group. Um so what we so give you a real quick example example. We um we worked in one, we had zero work in one country. Um and uh then we we the first two young gals were going to that country and saying, hey, we're going to launch a business, would you help us? And sure. And so we just start reaching out to the to the normal network and the and the Lord blessed. And now we have you know just multiple individuals from that country, because as you as you can appreciate, it is essential not just to have people from uh the states, for instance, be advisors, although certain principles are universal in terms of uh again because they're from scripture, but you you need to understand how they're applied in a local context. So we we go out and build that that community, and and the Lord so far is blessed in that particular country where we had zero basically advisors, we now have we have multiple and we're we're gaining gaining more.
SPEAKER_02And what types of what are some examples of some of the occupations represented among those 40-ish folks that you have out in the field?
SPEAKER_01Sure. So uh I mentioned we got scuba professional scuba diving instructors, so launching a scuba diving business in Malaga, Spain. We've had uh wood burning stove manufacturer working with the Romas in uh Albania. We've got a uh a musician uh uh in Japan who's on the voice, did really well. He just signed a contract uh to produce uh music there in Tokyo. Um, we've got some students, uh we have teachers, um yeah, a variety, you know, manufacturing service. It uh covers the whole gamut.
SPEAKER_02And so ongoing after they I mean it sounds like a lot of the the work would be done on the front end to kind of help them get connected, but after they're connected, they do they continually report in on kind of what's been happening on some of their discipleship objectives? How do you measure the discipleship impact?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so those are two two different questions. Let me answer the first one. Um, in terms of, yeah, it it sounds, and that's the reaction I get a lot of times is well, okay, so once you help me set up my company or you help me land and find a job or get me settled in, you know, connect me to community, sort of like do you just go away? And and the question is, well, um, do we still bring value to you? Um we we charge our members a fee, depends on what type of services they receive, but basically it's either 50 bucks a month or 200 bucks a month if if they want the full, you know, all the business services. And uh so far, I mean, the people that are joined us at the get-go are still with us. Some have gone, some have left because of circumstances, but but generally, again, just uh focusing real quick on the on the business side. Um, you know, you you launch your business, well, then you have the next business issue. And and again, the way our our network works is that okay, so we when you launched, we brought you people who that's what they do is they help businesses to launch. Now you're to the point of figuring out problems. Well, we got people who that's what they do for a living. And then, okay, now I'm ready to scale this. I've I one is running successfully, and we actually just somebody's joining us as we speak, saying, Okay, I I've got one and it's going real well, but and I want to do two and three. I'm not sure how to do that. Well, okay, I I don't either, but I I know people who do, and so we we connect them to that kind of thing. Uh and then so then on the and then some of it then transfers all also over um to what you were alluding to the disciple making side and the personal side. So in addition to the the business side, we do provide those services as well. And and as you can imagine, um as we come alongside and provide advisors and a mentor and some accountability on the disciple making and on the personal side, you know, friendships are attached and and they feel like they're part of the organization. We provide community and support that way, and and so they continue on. In terms of measuring, disciple making, um, I mean, mission agencies have been trying to figure that out for quite some time to varying degrees of success. And so I I guess the way we look at it is we're about uh attitude and effort. I mean, we're about, okay, we we help you to develop a plan. Um, we've got some model ones if you want to use in terms of disciple making, but but the really it should be about uh again, your effort and your obedience to the command. So it means you know developing relationships, being intentional about living your life for Christ, being intentional about sharing God's stories. And as you can appreciate, it depends on the context, right? In terms of what you say to whom and when and all that kind of stuff. But we help you think through that, develop a plan, and then be intentional about that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. We had uh a debate on the on the show uh several episodes back. It's been four months, um, between one uh there were there were two academics, and one was on the the business's mission side, uh, you know, really I think advocating more of what your mission is. And then on the flip side, we had somebody that was more of a you know profit first and foremost, and that he actually said that um that having a going over there with these spiritual objectives would actually harm the profitability of the business. Um have you found that to be true?
SPEAKER_01Um I I have not, and I guess the question would apply again, we we we focus on overseas in this, but uh again, uh, you know, I I've done it. You've probably done, I mean, most people, and we'll just pick America, let's let's focus on that for a moment. I mean, most people are called to be accountants and chemists and factory workers, and you know, you you pick it. And so, and and a lot of folks are are running businesses. Um, they're they're paid to make money, right? And and to work well in the marketplace. And I think our Lord is very clear that that that as we are doing that, we are to be working for him and not for men. But that doesn't mean you're not supposed to work for men. It means you you need to understand that you you you operate everything with excellence and using my principles and and uh then he's ultimately sovereign in my opinion. And and so we but we are called to to bring him glory and and do everything as as as we can. And um so I think we're just following his principles and he blesses or not as he chooses, and but we have found that again, there's his principles in the marketplace um uh that they work, and you know, not too surprising, or it shouldn't be too surprising to us, uh, and that it actually fosters um the opportunities to share Christ. And and I can give you multiple examples of that out real quick on one. Uh, I mentioned the wood-burning stove, uh and and uh Don was there and he was trying to share Christ with the Roma gypsy folks. That was eight years and it wasn't going real well. He ultimately decided to launch a business for a variety of reasons. He did that, and he confessed to me a couple years later, um, you know, Mark, I've been here in the country for for eight years and trying to share Christ, and now that I'm running a business using his principles, um, and and focusing on that. I and I'm I'm really am trying to build quality stoves and sell quality stoves and bring value to the community, I have more opportunities to share Christ. And I again I could tell you story after story like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um I'm wondering uh if there was, you mentioned discipleship models that you teach. And given that this is really at the forefront of your value proposition in terms of what differentiates your business services firm from you know another one, what what models are emerging as the most effective? And if you were to start really measuring that, um what uh what would the data tell us and how what would you be looking for?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I to me, we're we're still too young to start doing statistical analysis. Um I I would say again, uh I'm partly Darren, too, because our methodology isn't we don't have a methodology that we're promoting. What we do is is again, we're a service organization. So we come to you, Darren, say, hey, what model are you comfortable with? Here's three or four you can, you know, that we that we've seen work, but but you need to pick one that you feel God is calling you to fulfill. You need to pick a business you feel God has called you to run. We're not here to tell you how to do this. We're not here, we're here to help and support you in the vision God has given to you.
SPEAKER_02Um But aren't you telling them how to do, for example, like giving them best practices on like uh legal matters and you know, here's the model for dealing with like visas and like a lot of the other things are are straightforward. And I definitely get that the discipleship effectiveness and impact is is somewhat more you know, somewhat difficult to to measure. But if you if you if you had to, like what would what would the model be? I know that you don't want to necessarily tell somebody that this is the only way to do it, but is there a recommended kind of best practice that you've seen emerging across these different uh missionaries that you have out in the field?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I would say, well, let me let me phrase this, it phrase it this way. Um just as in the business side, you mentioned the legal structure. I mean, there it depends on the context, right? I mean, uh, we use different approaches depending on the local laws. I mean, to me, it's the same way, you know, in a community. Are you working with, you know, Muslims? Are you working with Buddhists? Are you working with atheists? Are you working with this? Or, you know, what's the context? Is the local church there good, bad, and different? And and generally we're focusing on unreached communities, so the the local church in many cases will be non-existent or or just so minor as not to be even a consideration. Other times it's it's the enemy, right? And so again, uh, you know, I the thing that I would say, some principles that we're finding to be effective are uh again, intentionality towards bringing value uh in in all of life. The other thing is intentionality of developing relationships. And um, and then the third thing I would say is we absolutely encourage, um, they're not our employees, so we can't require them to do anything, but we we urge them to get connected to the to a local body and and work with them to basically figure out how it is that that they are making disciples because and and I should mention that that we provide support not just for Americans. As a matter of fact, our probably our largest segment that's growing are people who going cross-culturally that aren't Americans. So we're working with uh, for instance, a Filipino company, uh couple going to a Southeast Asian country. Um, and in some cases, we're working uh with the nationals there. Um and so they understand that that type of context. And so again, it really is the same way with the legal side. We look at the local customs, you know, what are the laws there? Same on this side. Fig figure out in that community that you're joining what they're using and and what you feel comfortable with.
SPEAKER_02And how much how well is this being received by the the missions community? Do they consider this a um a mission of the church, or is this still just sort of Just just plain business in their eyes, where it's just, you know, going after unrighteous mammon so you can make money to go and give to true ministry.
SPEAKER_01I I would say, and again, I I don't want to speak for mission agencies, but I will say that nobody is saying the latter, and and pretty much most that I'm familiar with would say that this is a you know a pathway. Um now what their ultimate um true core beliefs are you know vary. Um and and so I guess I'll I'll leave it at that. Um yeah, and and and I guess uh in all honesty, I mean a lot of you know mission agencies are you know just trying to figure out where where are they in all this, how do they accomplish this. Um again, their sort of traditional model and and structures um uh tend not to work. So uh again, because you're you really are dealing with, and again, it depends on your approach. If if you take more the the ladder of, hey, this is just a a pathway to get a visa, then obviously you're gonna you're structure this all differently. If if you take more of the approach that we do of you you need to to do both um uh and and value both equally, then you just have to change some structures, and and that's that can be difficult for folks.
SPEAKER_02Do you think this is gonna become more mainstream in terms of the approach to missions going forward? Because you know, you you mentioned that you got to teach people to make money and then teach them to make disciples. And so if even if you're doing the traditional model of raising support and then going out to the field with the support that you raise, um you're still having to come back on furlough to raise funds. And and raising funds is either way, whether you're working in um you know, in the local workplace, marketplace, where you're also gonna have more opportunities to connect with people as you're rubbing shoulders with them on a daily basis. You don't have to worry so much about you know coming back stateside every couple of months to and and just especially given how expensive the plane tickets are and all of that. You think this is gonna kind of the future of missions, especially in more of these closed countries?
SPEAKER_01Well, they I mean they've been saying that for probably 15 years, um at least, uh, in terms of that's that's the way it's going, that's the way it will be. And you know, my my reaction is that sure, I mean that's how how can it not, right? Because as many folks have said, they're they're least reached for reasons, right? And and and one of those reasons is because of uh a quote religious worker can't be in the country. And and so uh again, if if your vision, if your goal as an organization is to get people there, you gotta figure out how to do that. Well, if they can't go as a quote religious worker, hey, we gotta figure another way. And so, oh, I will send them as a as a quote business person. So that's obviously a pathway that that many have taken. Um again, that's not really our approach. Um I tell people we're we're not a mission agency, we're not looking for missionaries, we're looking for marketplace people who want to be missional. So our and and and that's a subtle difference, but it's a pretty critical distinction. Um, not that we won't, again, I I mentioned Don earlier, he was with the traditional mission agency. Great, uh you can belong to 18. I don't I don't really care. The the point is, will do you need our services? Can we help you? And but the second thing is do you share our value? Do you understand that by uh by bringing value in the marketplace, you are honoring God and and you are also providing uh a pathway, paving a pathway to get into people's lives. And ultimately, we all know that that that's where things happen. It's is where you, Darren, when you meet somebody else who doesn't know our Lord and they see your life and you and you share the hope that you have within you, and you explain why you act the way you do, that's where the Holy Spirit has an opportunity to really work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, beautiful. Well, I for one do believe that it is the future of missions and really the future of Christian ministry in general is out in the marketplace. I mean, applying the model of the apostle Paul and you know, doing your tent making, whether that's as a business owner or as I I love the term you use, a disciple-making employee, because and and there's a quote that you shared with me previously. So uh we also believe that disciple making is often best done through personal relationships, and that those relationships are best built through the natural relationships that start in the workplace and grow through the flow of real life in the community. I mean, I it you want to unpack that as we wrap it up here, Mark?
SPEAKER_01Sure. Uh again, it's one of those things that um if you think about America and and again, what happens here, uh again, we all know deep in our hearts that again, God has called me to be maybe an accountant or a whatever, but he's also called me to be a disciple maker. And so that means sharing my faith with the person who's sitting in the cubicle next to me and finding ways to do that. So I think we all realize that that's that's the truth. And and uh again, uh it's just multiplied over in other countries where again, they can't go on to a podcast like this, or they if they do so, they they could be in danger. They can't go to a a church to to hear a program or have a professional speaker, you know, pastor, share. And so um what's true in a in a in a powerful way here is is just multiplied, you know, in those types of contexts where even if somebody in many cases wanted to know more about Jesus Christ and and church and what all and Christianity and what all that means, they they just don't have the opportunity. And so we we need to have people who are believers uh from whatever country, whatever nationality in those communities where they can they look across the aisle, they look across the cubicle and say, Hey, I know that person. I know he proclaims to be a Christian, and and I need to go talk to him. And and and he he again, it's we we we all know this, and then we say the light shines brighter in the darkness, and we use all kind of cliches like that that I'm not real fond of, but again, but it's it's a short circuit, right? But that's so true, right? I mean, it's the light does shine brighter and and people notice that. So we we just need more lights over there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Amen. Well, I love what you're doing, Mark, and goldmde is dot com is the website as in marketplace and development enterprises. I'll have that link too in the show notes. Mark, thank you for uh the work you're doing, and may God continue to bless you, your family, and all of the workers that are out in the in the harvest field around the world. May God bless them and their families and their businesses, their work and their uh their sphere of influence that God has called them to. Amen.
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