Welcome back to the The Amulti of the Business Marketplace with Host Mary here. This is the show that helps the marketplace creatures with God in business and helping make disciples of your company, your industry, and your community. If you want to learn more about how to do business for the glory of God industry, for the discipline of business world, this show is for you. You can get more of the Multi of Business Institute's interviews and teachings like the one you're about to hear at the MultiThefusiness.com.
SPEAKER_02On this episode, we're joined by Oz Hillman, my friend and a pioneer in the modern faith at work movement. And Oz has been uh made a profound impact on my life and was uh a formative influence in helping me to get oriented about what God was up to uh beyond the four walls of the church whenever I first uh started to make that discovery. I don't even know if I'd be doing this podcast without uh his influence on my life. He's actually, this is the second time there haven't been many repeat guests on the show, Oz. So you're one of the one of the first. Oz is the president of Marketplace Leaders, which is an organization whose purpose is to help men and women discover and fulfill God's complete purposes through their work and to view their work as ministry. And in the past, he's owned an advertising agency and is now an internationally recognized speaker on the subject of faith at work. And he's written 18 books and has a daily email devotional that's been going now for how many years, Oz?
SPEAKER_00Since around 1998.
SPEAKER_02So 1998, a lot of us didn't even hear this idea that you know God wanted to be involved in our work until well after that. And so you can see that the there was a foundation laid here that's now been read uh several hundred thousand readers in 105 nations, and he's been featured in pretty much all the major uh media outlets and has a bookstore you can go check out at TGIFbookstore.com, uh, which is uh online faith at work Christian bookstore uh serving the needs of Christians and their workplace calling. Oz, welcome back to the Theology of Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_00Hey, Darren. So good to be with you, and thanks for all that you're doing in this space as well.
SPEAKER_02So, as much as anyone I know, you've been running with this vision to see Christians shaping culture from the mountains of influence in our society. So, in this interview, I wanted to just get an update from you on how the body of Christ is advancing on the business mountain in particular. We're hearing new terms in the culture like CEO activism and corporate social responsibility. So, business leaders, CEOs in particular, no longer are they just uh welcome to talk about things like taxes in the economy. Now they're weighing in on issues like same-sex marriage and gender identity and gun control, even entire elections, environmental issues, and and so on. Can you explain this phenomenon of CEOs increasingly becoming social activists in the culture in recent years?
SPEAKER_00Well, Darren, it just seems like our culture is uh is uh facing a lot of uh uh uh uh I guess opposing viewpoints on that you know, we've become a very uh disjointed nation, you know, with many of uh many of the things going on in the culture going to the more uh liberal side of of things, and then uh, you know, losing our Christian voice in the last administration. And, you know, it just seems like we're a very divided nation and and people are taking sides, and we see this very clearly uh in the area of the marketplace and how activism has been growing more and more in the business area. Before you and I were talking, I was just talking about how I just read this morning about evidence of how Google is using their platform to shut down the Christian voice and basically reframe the voice by sending them to uh, you know, uh websites that would try to make them appear what they're not, you know. And we're seeing this with Twitter being, you know, shutting down voices, conservative voices, even Facebook. And uh so we're seeing that level of activism uh through uh people's uh political agenda. And uh at the same time, we also see where Christians in the marketplace are beginning to step forward and stand in the gap for the Christian message. And the uh, you know, you know, it wasn't too long ago that Chick-fil-A had to stand up because they were being attacked by the gay community, thinking that they were bigots and you know that they, you know, were not who they said they were. And uh the outcome of that actually turned out to be fairly positive because you know the Christian community got behind them and also the uh Dan Cathy made friends with the organizer of that, took him to a football game, and the guy said, Well, he's really not this way, you know. And so it's one of the few battles we've won like that. And of course, Hobby Lobby, you know, is probably the most significant one where they stood against Obamacare that wanted to require uh companies to have, you know, um abortion type drugs that would violate every Christian's conscience with that. And uh so we're seeing it on both sides, and we're seeing where I think in the last 20 years, how uh men and women are coming to a greater understanding that their their marketplace call is not there just to collect a check, but they're there to do even greater things and allow the Lord to use them in ways that they never thought uh of business in that way.
SPEAKER_02And beyond the church and the overall culture, why do you think this, why do you think it's actually even becoming an expectation that CEOs of these massive companies like Google and Starbucks, Chick-fil-A, Hobby Lobby, that it's it's actually expected that they're going to stand for their political, social, religious beliefs in the culture. What because you know, 20 years ago, that would have been completely taboo to talk about you know religion, politics, and and the corporate setting, but but now we're seeing more of these CEO activists. Why is it why is this now happening now?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think that we it's a symptom of what we're seeing in the culture. If just imagine if you and I were um, you know, the year 1950, and we woke up in the year 2018, you know, and we'd been living in 1950, we would all be appalled at the value system, the way people talk to each other, the uh the morality, the amount of sex that would be on TV. Uh, all of these things. Um, we've been the frog in a kettle for so long, you know, with the heat uh going further, hotter and hotter in that kettle to where we don't uh really recognize how hot it is and and how far we've come from some of the spiritual foundations of our nation. And so if you just think about it in that terms, that we've fallen so far away from the biblical foundations of our nation that we're now beginning to see the reality of that. We see a worldview that's so contrary. Uh, you would never think to have a that a politician could get elected that wants socialism, right? I mean, we'd never think of that uh 25 years ago. But the culture has changed so much that the world views have changed so much that it's really aligning itself. And so when someone like a Christian who has strong biblical values comes against that, it comes against such a strong uh anti uh philosophy that they almost feel compelled that they've got to do something, they've got to use their resources to stop it and and uh take up their agenda. That's the way I'm seeing it anyway.
SPEAKER_02Do you think it also has to do with the way this the millennial generation doesn't just want to go to work for a paycheck, but wants to go to work for some some deeper meaning, a cause bigger than themselves, whether they're doing it for the right reasons or the wrong reasons, they're their reasons. And and they they don't just want to work at a company that's gonna be silent on certain issues. How much of a role does the generational shift play in this?
SPEAKER_00Well, the social element of the next generation is very important to them. The challenge is whether that social element is rooted in the right kinds of things. Um, just today I was made aware of one of the major Christian artists who was asked whether um the gay lifestyle was sinful. And she basically skirted the issue and was not able to answer the question directly. And that's a symptom of this next generation that has a difficult time um expressing absolute values. They're scared of what the culture is going to do to them if they express something that might have a absolute biblical value. And so we have a whole generation that has grown up with um you know tolerance. The it's the God of tolerance, you know, I'm okay as long as you're okay. And without the concept of, you know, a biblical truth being at the center of that. And so that becomes a problem as um as a new generation grows up and doesn't know how to express a biblical worldview.
SPEAKER_02Right. I mean, at the same time, I think, don't you think that there are going to be companies that will continue to emerge that will be the go-to place to work for somebody that has, for example, a conservative Christian worldview? Like I think about the difference between going to work for Dave Ramsey's company versus going to work for, say, PayPal or something like that. I mean, just light years apart in terms of the worldview coming from the top, do you think that that we'll start to see more companies like that for specifically that are more Christian friendly, and they recognize the fact that look, we know that people that are Antifa or that are trying to advance the gay rights agenda or something like that are not going to feel welcome here. And we we recognize that and and they have ways of kind of screening for that in the in the hiring process.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I can think of a company that uh I've had the CEO speak. He is a company that uh people um vie to go to work there. I mean, it's like you know, everybody wants to work for this company because he's so modeled what it means to be a Christian CEO who cares for their employees and does things out of the ordinary to care for them and uh uh really serve them. And as a re as a result of that, uh that sewing comes back to him in terms of um, you know, employee retention and uh really people who want to work there. And uh one of the things this company does, they uh go overseas and and help uh some depressed areas overseas, and they have like a 60 to 70 percent volunteer rate of you know participating in that, and the company supports them in that. So yeah, I think as more and more companies, especially CEOs, understand the role God gave them for that business, and they really want to experience Christ in that business, then it plays out and it has a multiplication factor for those who work there. Uh so yeah, and and it's great to see that we're seeing more and more of those. I I do a coaching program with Christian CEOs, and uh I'm hearing some great stories from them and just how they're modeling this. And you know, it's no longer the money is no longer the bottom line, only you got to make a profit. But there also has to be a purpose behind the business and and what you're about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Now you're a strat, you're really, I view you as a seven mountains strategist. You're you're looking for uh strategic ways to advance the kingdom and these centers of influence. Uh doesn't it seem like business is uh how uh for example, what is what is going to wield more influence on the culture, business or government? I'm trying to get an idea of in the set in the overall Seven Mountains mandate and strategy, how critical is is business?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, for the sake of our listeners who may not be familiar with this, the seven mountains are arts and entertainment, business, education, family, government, media, and religion, and the church. You know, those those are actually two different things.
SPEAKER_02But they can go back to listen to that episode when I and that that first interview that we did, I think it was episode 16, but it's right around there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, there's business, and then there's business on each of these cultural spheres. You know, each one of these things is a business unto itself. And then you have the overall business aspect of it. So business often drives everything else. You know, if business isn't doing well, then other things aren't doing well. If it's doing well, then we see uh greater growth in so many areas. And uh if business isn't doing well, government is not doing well. You know, our GDP is not going up, uh, if our business is not going up. And so it's very directly tied to that. Uh government deals with developing laws that can, you know, affect change. And of course, because we have a business owner who's in the you know, president right now, he has an understanding of bottom line results. And so he's approached government, you know, much to his amazing uh, you know, uh confrontation with with the deep swamp, right? You know, of the of the way government's done. I think he had a real culture shock in the first year, and that he didn't know how quite how to deal with it because he dealt with it just the way he does business. And uh, regardless of how you think about him, uh he has uh restored the Christian voice in America. He has uh done things from a business perspective to make our nation greater again in the area of business. He's uh deregulated so many things that were hampering business. And as a result of some of the changes he's made, which uh no one gives him credit for on the left, you know, for those changes, but we see in the greatest growth we've seen in many years with a 3% G uh GDP and uh even potentially even greater than that. We got a big debt though, and that's the big problem is that if we don't address that, uh all of this is going to be nil. So there is a place of uh reconciling uh that level of debt we have in our nation. And that's my prayer is that uh we'll get to that and make it a priority soon because once uh once it crosses over that threshold, it's hard to turn back and it's a many-year recovery. Right.
SPEAKER_02Who are some of the Christian CEOs that we might not be aware of, that the the average listener might not be aware of, who are shaping culture from the top of the business mountain? You know, we know we know about David Green and uh Dan Kathy. Who are some of the lesser known influencers and and what are they uh what are they doing that as you understand it are are doing the the vision that God has given to you? They're you're seeing that come to fruition through these men and women.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think of a man who's actually a case study video that um Oklahoma City profiled this man, and uh he had moved from California to Oklahoma City and bought a building only to find out it was a crack house and that it was one of the major places for prostitution. And um it was uh it had really brought this community down, and uh, but instead of just getting rid of it and you know ridding himself of it, he decided to actually move his family into this building and uh redid the building, made apartments in the building, and had other Christian uh quote missionaries, unquote, come in. And they began to uh be, as they say, be neighbors in the neighborhood, uh in the hood. And uh and over a couple of years they transformed that community by being the salt and light and loving those uh people in that community, and today that community is a r a totally transformed community because one businessman had a vision uh of what could happen and sacrificed a great deal for that to happen. And I think that when you see um business owners who have vision and want to problem solve, I think that's the one big thing that's common to business leaders who are both successful in business as well as in life, is they understand that God's given them uh a call to solve a problem. And that's what Jesus did, he solved the problem. Wherever he met someone, he usually solved the problem, whether it was, you know, Peter's fishing problem or his tax problem, or the woman at the well's problem, or the prostitute's problem, or Lazarus's problem. You know, he always solved the problem first. And when you solve a problem, you uh automatically gain influence. And uh that's part of the problem that the church must address is that most of culture when they think of Christian, they think of right-wing political action group versus a people who love and care about other people and care about the culture. And so we have to think differently about uh culture influence. Culture influence is a fruit, not a goal. And then when I was writing my book, Culture Change uh you know several years ago, and uh, or change agent that was the name of the book, it was about culture change. Um originally I was writing it about having a goal of culture change, and when I came to uh really study the life of Jesus, I realized that his cultural influence, he didn't actually transform any communities, he transformed People in pockets of communities. And that came as a result of him serving people, loving people, and solving problems. And so he wasn't trying to change people, he was trying to love them into the kingdom and demonstrate the Father's love for them. And the result of that was change. And so I think that's really our goal should be simply to live a life unto the Father, that we love the Father and allow his love to flow through us, both in how we do business and how we uh, you know, love people.
SPEAKER_02Beautiful. Well said. So I want to hear about the Culture Shapers Summit and have you share with our listeners uh what's uh what's coming up in March. And to segue into that, what can we expect to see in the next five years as a result of God's move among believers in the workplace? And and and how have you kind of molded the lineup of speakers and the whole curriculum for the upcoming summit in view of kind of where God is leading us in the in this Seven Mountains mandate?
SPEAKER_00Well, I haven't uh hosted an international conference in nine years. Uh, we used to do international Seven Mountain conferences every year for about five years, but the Lord had me pull aside from that and just focus on small regional uh equipping uh uh workshops for leaders. And then uh a little over a year ago, God impressed me that it was time to really bring uh an event like this to the body of Christ because so much has happened in the last nine years, especially the growth of understanding of men and women in the marketplace and the seven mountains and so forth. And so I felt like we wanted to bring together as many top leaders in the Seven Cultural Mountains. And so we have over 40 presenters. Uh, about eight of those are keynote presenters, and the others are 10-minute panel presentations on each of these cultural mountains, four per mountain, and people like Steve Green of Hobby Lobby and Roma Downey with Arts and Entertainment, and the Hugh Hewitt with um the media and radio and syndicated talk show, and A. R. Bernard with the Christian Cultural Center, a major church in New York City, and uh Tony Perkins with the family, Dale Tackett, who was involved with the Truth Project. And so these are leaders that have actually been doing uh very significant work at some level of the culture, and so we want to hear from them. Uh so the purpose of the summit is to bring that level of leadership together and to be able to hear what's on their heart, what is God doing today? What are the signs of the times? The tribe of Issachar was known by understanding the signs of the times. Do we really understand the serious nature that we are in as a nation? And if we do, what are we doing about it? And so we want to hear from those people what they're doing about it. We want to learn from them, but we also want to engage those who are there in a way that allows them to connect with each other, to be equipped, and uh mobilize those people. You know, William Wilberforce did a wonderful job when he had a small group of about 18 called the Clapham Group. And this group of 18 had 69 world-changing initiatives as a result of them walking together and seeing some of the social ills of their nation. Uh the they abolished slavery after over 30 years of work. But this was a group of people that were willing to collaborate and work together. I often say that uh we all have one mission, we have many callings, but we uh we also need to work together uh to accomplish something greater than what we can do by ourselves. And so that's the vision behind it. We're also going to introduce a new technology called World Changer Network. This technology was uh originated in the United Nations, and the the brother who created that technology is a believer, and he's adapted it for Christian use to be able to identify projects. Let's say that you've got a community project and you're looking for people to help you either from a volunteer standpoint or a funding standpoint or just working with you or ideas, you know, this platform is going to allow that to happen. And uh so that's going to be an exciting tool for people who have an interest in really being a part of the solution for impacting culture. They can find information at our website, Cultureshapers Summit.com, Cultureshapers Summit.com. And that's coming, and what are the dates of the summit again? Yeah, March 28 through 31, 2019. And we're co-hosting that at the Museum of the Bible, which is a tremendous uh one billion dollar project that was funded by Hobby Lobby. And uh so uh the attendees will be able to go over to the museum on Friday and Saturday afternoons, and uh that uh that's worth the trip right there. And so the summit is uh during the week of the Cherry Blossom Festival in Washington, D.C. And we have a fantastic rate of $129 a night, which is unheard of in Washington, DC. So um it's gonna be a great gathering. So we hope that those listening would check it out at CultureShapersSummit.com.
SPEAKER_02Beautiful. And we'll have that linked in the show notes to make sure everybody goes to check that out, see, get more information about the speakers, and decide if this is for you, it's obviously gonna be uh a historic event and uh milestone in the movement of what God is doing in the culture, in the workplace, in the business world. Oz, what would be a parting piece of advice uh aside from sign up for the summit? Uh, what would be a parting piece of advice you're gonna leave with our listeners today?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think we all each each have to ask God, what is it that you've called me to do? Why did you put me on planet Earth? And what is my purpose? And I think everybody needs to have a good understanding of that in order to uh fulfill our purpose and to receive the inheritance God gives each of us and reserve for us in heaven. It says in Colossians 3.23, whatever you do, do unto the Lord, it's the Lord Christ you are serving, and therein is your inheritance. So, what what God is saying through Paul there is that your inheritance is tied to what you do. And so you want to make sure that what God has created you to do, I think he has something in mind, he brought you to earth to fulfill something unique that only you could do, and uh he has crafted you in a very specific way, and you know, the Bible teaches us that there's a book written in heaven about us, and that book contains everything we're gonna do on earth, and Ephesians 2.10 says he created us for good works, and so our job is to tap into the understanding of what that is for each of us, and if we can do that, uh we will get before God when we you know go to heaven to hear those words, well done, good and faithful servant.
SPEAKER_02Well said. Oz, thank you for your time. And uh just thank you on a personal note for your friendship and your uh leadership in this movement that that I am privileged to be a part of and that our listeners are privileged to be a part of. And may God continue to bless everything you're doing with marketplace leaders and the summit, and uh, we appreciate you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Darren. So much uh so enjoy being with you.
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