Welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast with host Darren Spear, an initiative of the RGW Dunham College of Business at Houston Baptist University. This is the show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate the local values into business. You can get more information about the HBU Center for Christianity and Business and sign up to receive free access to all features of the Christian Business Review Journal by visiting our website at ChristianityInbusiness.com.
SPEAKER_03On this episode, we're joined by Aaron Smith. Aaron is the founder and majority shareholder of a private U.S. investment management firm at Cora Capital. And prior to founding his own firm, he served as an executive at a multi-billion dollar systematic global macro hedge fund. That's mouthful, Aaron. He's the author of a new book, Meditations of a Hedge Fund Manager, Inspired Insights on Purpose and Prosperity. And you can check out his website at Aaron Smith, A-A-R-O-N, Smith, S-M-I-T-H dot T-H. And you can get a copy of that book. And it's also on Amazon. We're going to be talking about some of these meditations, revelations he's gotten through his uh journey in the in the financial industry. And um I know some people they hear the term hedge fund. It might be good starting out, Aaron. Uh, first of all, welcome to the Christianity and business podcast.
SPEAKER_04Thanks a lot, Darren. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03And what is a hedge fund, real quick?
SPEAKER_04Well, very simply, a hedge fund is an investment vehicle that's normally a privately held entity. And uh typically hedge funds are going to do do things that would be um uh a little bit more interesting than just plain long only investing. So they could potentially go short in certain markets and instruments, they could use leverage, they could borrow, they could do a lot of different exotic strategies to try to provide alpha or to try to provide performance in a portfolio.
SPEAKER_03So it's kind of like a fund of funds, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it could be it could be a fund of funds. Um, you know, it's a very diverse uh area. You have uh many different types of strategies. So it's it's a very broad uh investment universe. And you know, there's a few trillion dollars in the hedge fund universe today. So it's a very deep, uh, deep part of the market. And um, but you know, usually it's been limited to the institutional investors and ultra high net worth. So probably not something that that you'd see um you know in your Charles Schwab account or or you know, Fidelity account.
SPEAKER_03Sure. So I think that gives our listeners a sense of uh what you do at work and working with these high net worth individuals and helping them to uh hopefully successfully invest their money, which obviously you've been doing very well uh throughout your career. But on September the 11th, 2001, of course, that was a pivotal day in the lives of millions of people, and I'm no exception to that. Uh, tell us what impact 9-11 made on your life personally.
SPEAKER_04Well, going back to 9-11, just the we go back to the 10th, the day before I was in Astra Place in New York City. I was working at Morgan Stanley at the time, and I had eaten some sushi that day, and I got a real bad case of salmonella poisoning. So I was admitted into NYU Medical Center, and the next morning, the morning of the 11th, you know, woke up and was finally able to check out of the hotel. And I had never been late to work in my life. I was really upset, really prided myself on punctuality and never missing a day. And I'm in the taxi cab heading south, and I could just start to smell the smell of burnt metal. And um, yeah, lo and behold, uh my office on the 73rd floor of the World Trade Center was no longer there. And uh, you know, in a rational sense, you know, we could chalk that up as a coincidence. But uh a little while later, down the down the road, I was in India and in Bombay, what they call Mumbai these days, and um was supposed to be in the Taj Hotel just when Al-Qaeda hit at you know, that morning I got a slip disc in my back and I wasn't able to make it over to the Taj Hotel where I was booked for conference all that day. I think 281 people got killed that day in the in the uh terrorist attacks. And um, you know, what they did is they they just took everybody, lined them up in the old colonial wing of the Taj Hotel. And if you had an American or British passport, it was just summary execution on the spot. So um, you know, another coincidence of some bad sushi, a slip disk, just the right time. Well, you know, it really spoke to me that there's a call on my life, and that God has a purpose uh for what I'm doing. And it's it's more than just eating, sleeping, uh, working, uh, going through the daily grind, going through the motions. It's there's a meaning and a significance, there's an eternal legacy that we're building. And um so God got my attention. And um, you know, I grew up in the faith, I grew up in church, but you know, I have to say I was living like the prodigal son, but the Lord and his faithfulness, he never gave up on me, even through those types of events to get my attention. And um, oh wow, I'm so grateful that he did.
SPEAKER_03And so you were still living kind of a worldly lifestyle at this point, right? I mean, even even in the midst of these things happening around you uh that would just cause anyone to question like what why is this happening to me? Like, why did I get spared uh in these two scenarios, these two tragedies? Um, where to what extent were you Christ-centered in your life at this point?
SPEAKER_04You know, I I I would have told you that Jesus was my Lord and Savior, but uh, you know, I didn't. You know, if you had tried to take me to court to prove that I was a Christian, you wouldn't have any evidence to prove to convict me, you know. So I had uh I was so focused on Wall Street, on my career on Wall Street, I was so pulled into that gravitation that um, you know, I just I didn't hear that still small voice. And uh anytime that I got in a situation that uh that that still small voice would, you know, that I could resonate with me, I drowned it out by drinking or by uh or by other things. And um, you know, for some of us that could be alcohol and partying and things of that nature, but for some of us it could be as benign as just like watching too much Netflix and and uh and and uh sitting on Facebook for hours and hours. I mean, there's many ways that we can deaden that still small voice of of the Lord speaking to us, but um, you know, ultimately um he's a faithful, he's a faithful God, and uh, you know, so I had uh uh you know I'm really grateful for his faithfulness. And uh yeah, and my my life from that point on really is just about you know gratitude for what he's done for me.
SPEAKER_03Wow. Wow, powerful testimony, and so obviously God has had his hand on your life, and I mean it's tricky to to try to draw conclusions when you when you walk through something like that. I mean, and come out on this and survive it. I mean, like we my my family, our home was spared during Hurricane Harvey, you know, and then I look around a few blocks down and people are just completely decimated, and it's like, why? And it, you know, it's not it's hard to say that, oh, well, you know, God just uh God just loves me more or something like that. Obviously, that's not the case. Um, but there it definitely will cause you to uh to look up and uh to to evaluate is there uh is there something more uh it's like the movie Private Ryan, when uh at the end uh uh Tom Hanks is dying on the bridge and he tells Private Ryan to earn this. And not that you can earn what's already been given, but that you can live worthy of that that calling, you know, like the Bible tells us. And it you've obviously taken that uh to heart. And and you're doing that in the financial industry, which is kind of notorious for greed and worldliness. How are you living counter-culturally in this industry?
SPEAKER_04Well, look, it's you know, it's a tough industry, especially where I am in in Zurich, Switzerland. 25% of the world's offshore wealth is domiciled here in Switzerland, just right around me. And um, there is a very strong, you know, what I would describe as the spirit of mammoth uh here. And um it is uh there's a lot of opposition that we come up against in the spiritual realm. Um that being said, um you know that there are um opportunities everywhere we go just to be salt and light, to um to share our testimony, how God really gave me beauty for ashes, how he really um has just demonstrated grace upon grace upon grace upon grace, and enabled me to to to live a life of victory, a life where you know I'm just walking out the good works that he prepared in advance. And um, it's just so beautiful and so rich. So, yes, there is uh there is a strong spiritual opposition um that we go up against. Um, you know, every day I hear words like burnout, uh depression, um, unemployment. People are, you know, several years trying to get back into the workforce after a layoff, big job cuts, you know, large corporations laying off thousands in waves. And um, you know, I see all this, and and coupled with that, with also high-level, C-level executives committing suicide. Men, women, predominantly men, making high six figures, some of them making seven figures in income with multi-million dollar homes, chalets, vacations, everything, choosing to end their life because of the anxiety, the stress, the pressure. So that's the environment. And there's not gonna be a lot of sympathy out there for people like that because, well, frankly, hey, they have everything. So, you know, and you know what? God wants to reach these people too, they're just as valuable. Every single soul here in the marketplace is so precious to the Lord.
SPEAKER_03Could you give us an example of maybe um one of your clients in the past? I mean, I I know you got client confidentiality, uh, but to to just give us a sense of the opportunity that you've had in your in your firm, in your work, uh to just be a light. I mean, what are the, for example, uh what are some of the biblical financial principles that you share with your clients? Do you do you tend, because that you've written a lot about this in your book, uh, do you also share that that's where this principle is coming from in the Bible?
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah, absolutely. And um, I think that the it's really about communicating our values and our integrity, which is founded in the word of God. And when we say something, it's not because we think it, it's because you know, we're just echoing what the word of God says. And so um, whenever I'm in a client situation, um, I'm always cognizant of the spiritual dynamic. It might be it might seem simple, but just a simple prayer before going into a meeting, yielding it to the power of the Holy Spirit, just inviting the Holy Spirit to take control of the situation, inviting the Lord to be, you know, to be the CEO, to, to, to really how how can I use this business, Lord, to please you? And normally the answer to that is how can I bless others? Because if people are precious in God's sight, then what I can do to please God is in faith blessing people without thinking about what comes in return. So if we can just bless people, um, you know, also in the area of their finances, but you know, many times um you know it'll it'll change the conversational change. And um I have a client um based up in Basel. He's actually a West Point uh graduate who served in the military, settled down in Germany after being on the germ on the US base up there, but became a successful business person, completely agnostic. He, you know, lapsed from the faith. And um, you know, he just one day, I mean, he he said, Look, Aaron, um, you know, my son was just admitted into the psych, you know, the psych clinic, and uh we're really scared and we don't know what to do. Could you pray for us? You know, and it's such an honor and a privilege to be able to serve somebody like that and to be able to say, Look, I don't have the answers, but I sure know somebody who does. So we're gonna pray to him and we're gonna we're gonna call on his name because the Bible says in the book of Romans that all who call upon his name shall be saved. And so it's just situations like that where you know now we're bringing light into that dark situation. Maybe uh we're we're just modeling the love of the father, the heart of the father towards this person, and um and you know, that's just one situation, but it it just happens. Um it happens. Um and I'm not always very overt with everybody about you know uh throwing my Christianity in their face, but they know it, they sense it. They they they uh at the end, you know, people people feel that, and uh, you know, so so it's it creates opportunities to minister.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, especially when you're when you're managing people's money, you know, because where their where their treasure is, that's where their heart is, you know, and vice versa. And when you're in these conversations uh about money, and uh whether it's with high net worth individuals or not, I mean, talking about somebody's livelihood is gonna give you inroads that you might not have had otherwise. Um you know, and and then you you brought up uh somebody you know, their their child is going through something, maybe uh is just really um whether it's a mental uh uh thing going on, or they're just living in a way that's just really destructive, you have an opportunity because if they even if they're high net worth, I mean, money can't buy the things that they desire deep down for their children in a lot of cases. Um what what are some of the other inroads that you found uh have been effective and just helping to take the conversation deeper with your clients?
SPEAKER_04You know, I think honestly, I I I feel like it's just a matter of being, you know, we will bear fruit automatically and effortlessly if we're tapped into the bond. If we stay in the word of God, if we stay in faith, the grace just automatically flows. I don't really have to even think about it. These opportunities present themselves, and so I I don't even have to manufacture situations or whatever.
SPEAKER_03You know, I just I just follow the Holy Spirit and what's an example of one of those opportunities?
SPEAKER_04You know, it could be as simple as like, you know, I'm sitting on the train in London on the way to a business meeting in a suit, you know, going, you know, already late for meeting, and then the Holy Spirit taps me on the shoulder and says, Hey, go talk to that lady. I can't do that. I'm a businessman. She's gonna think I'm crazy. Well, why would I do that? Oh no, and then you go and you recognize that after you did it and you made yourself vulnerable and you just were obedient to what the Lord was wanting you to do in that situation, um, you know, at the risk of making a fool of yourself. Maybe, just maybe, you gave that lady a cup of cold water that that that quenched her thirst. Maybe, just maybe blessed her day. And um, it's these little touches, these little um, you know, a God who is so big to have created the universe and everything in it by the power of his word to speak and worlds come into existence. But he's also got up small details. Yeah, it's just those personal interactions. More often than not, it's not that you know, talking to some lady on the train, it's it's usually leveraging the relationship that we've earned over time, you know, that by managing someone's money, and then they, you know, they they become to trust you and they understand that you're a man of your word, and then you know, situations arise and they usually come to you, and then you just have the opportunity. And I feel like that that's that gives you a lot of credibility. Um, and frankly, I think people are willing to speak to me who might not be willing to speak to a pastor or you know, uh somebody who's in the institutional clergy, so to speak. So that's unique, and um it's a it's a wonderful opportunity.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And what are some of the biblical financial principles you share in the book? Um, I was one that caught my attention was when you talked about debt, you mentioned that you have personally never had a loan of any kind, uh, which I thought was was awesome. Um what is, and this is part of what I was getting at when I talked about how you you're really making an effort to live counterculturally in this industry, you know, where it's you know, just borrow money and invested in stock market and different things like that. Um, what are some of those financial principles that guide the work that you do as a hedge fund manager?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, the financial principles are are real simple. Um, you know, basically common sense. And, you know, I've been blessed that it's true. I've never had any debt personally or through the business. So, you know, not one penny never entered into a loan. Um, that to me is just that's just a blessing. Um that's given me freedom. Um, I'm you know, I'm pretty I try to be pretty uh pretty sensitive or sensible with with my spending. I mean, I I could drive any car I want to. I drive a my car's, you know, seven going on eight years old, 150,000 miles on it. Well, you know, works just good. I'll keep driving it, you know, as long as I can. Um gets me up in the mountains to where I can ski, and that's that's that's uh that's a blessing too. So, you know, I'm like, but the as far as the financial principles, compound interest, you know, avoiding debt, how to um how to take advantage of uh different market cycles, things of this nature, you know, this is all pretty um standardized stuff, and and you can you can read that, and you don't need necessarily to be a person of faith to take advantage of those principles because you know they they work like natural laws. Um, you know, it's just uh it's not a question of what you believe about them, it's just a question of implementing them or not. Um, however, um the interesting thing comes in in the spiritual dynamic is how we view money, wealth, um, and how can we embrace uh success in a biblical way and uh and and really look in the mirror and and uh be able to you know be able to um stand for what we're doing and that really comes down to you know a faithful reading of scripture and and i think there is frankly a massive paradox in the sense that you have the bless me bless me bless me type scriptures that uh some people selectively use and go overboard on the on the side of prosperity uh you have also you know other scriptures um you know about the the love of money is the root of all evil and and things of that nature which are basically imperative warnings from the scriptures so which is right does god want to bless me or is money evil and how do we reconcile that paradox and my thesis which i put forth in the book which is essentially that we reconcile that paradox the same way we reconcile all the paradoxes of the Bible which is in the beams of the cross if you consider on one hand that you know God is love mercy kindness on the other hand God is justice righteous holy how do we reconcile a God with those types of attributes how can you have justice and mercy at the same time and the answer is in the cross the paradox is reconciled in the beams of the cross when our Lord gave his life as atonement for our sins he showed the perfect justice of the Father being met the perfect holy requirements being fulfilled and yet the tenderness the the loving kindness the mercy was also uh shown for all time and in the same way in finance you know on the near side of the cross it's true money will kill you if you don't think money will affect you you probably haven't managed a large amount of it and if you if you you know it's just it's powerful it has a pull to it when you start making a lot of money dealing with a lot of money you know your steps get lighter you start thinking that you're pretty smart and uh it's tempting to even look down at other people that's just being honest but on the far side across of the cross after going through Calvary we dethrone that idol and we enthrone the name which is above all names we enthrone Jesus on the throne of our heart so that these other petty rivals idols like uh wealth and success power any kind of idol that you can come up with just it just loses its power over us because Jesus is on the throne and so then the allure and the lust of money is just like well it's not that big a deal and and money is actually in our heart reduced to what it really is which is just a form of energy that we can apply for good for neutral for negative and uh you know I'll tell you one good thing about money that the scripture is very clear that we can use it to secure eternal rewards. There are eternal benefits that can be secured with this temporal money. So this is important. And um I think this spiritual dynamic's real important because you know on one hand you know you have people that overemphasize prosperity on the other hand I think a vast majority of of the church worldwide is probably more in this phase of um you know poverty mentality and you know I'm not really so sure it's you know I don't really know if I want to be successful like whatever the Lord the Lord wants is fine for me. That attitude is not gonna it's really not going to manifest the kingdom. And that's what we're called to do.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Well said and people can read more about uh what you're teaching here in your book Meditations of a hedge fund manager inspired insights on purpose and prosperity and where's the best place for people to get a hold of that book and why don't you give us uh just a quick overview of uh why people should get a copy of that book yeah it's easily uh easily picked up on amazon.com um you know it's it's really a book that is comprised of 12 meditations which will take you systematically through um your purpose your seeing work your your daily work as a form of worship um techniques for making your prayer life more effective understanding your identity in Christ which I think is an important revelation for each of us to have and um you know really positioning ourselves for breakthrough um financial principles and how to view that through a biblical angle and really just it's all about how to walk you know what it really comes down to is the gospel by grace through faith and most Christians have understood by grace through faith in the context of salvation and they say well okay now I'm saved that's great someday when I die I'll go to be with the Lord I'm saved wonderful but what does by grace through faith look like today when I go to work how do I live by grace through faith in my daily life now and what are the implications of it and so I really I I I really think that's important that uh of course nothing would be more important than our eternal salvation and securing that but uh of course we want to show that faith is practical faith can change everything in your experience in in your work life and in so doing you can fulfill uh the will of the father and you can manifest the kingdom wherever God has placed you today.
SPEAKER_04So that's the message that we want to get out there and uh you know we just we're just grateful for the opportunity.
SPEAKER_03Well said and Aaron Smith.ch is the website Aaron thank you so much for uh being so generous with your time here I know it's the end of the day there in Zurich and you're about to go pick up your kids but uh this has been a phenomenal conversation I know this is gonna really bless our listeners so appreciate you brother thank you Derek could I just finish off with a prayer yes please yes Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus I just want to thank you for this time with my brother Darren and with everybody who's taken the time to listen to this call Lord I just believe it's not a coincidence and I just pray blessing over each and every person who's joined this meeting um Lord that I I just pray that you would resonate any part of this message in their hearts that uh that you're wanting to bless them and to help them and to to lead them in the in the path of righteousness that you've set before them.
SPEAKER_04So Father I thank you and I praise your name in Jesus' name Amen.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode and if so we would greatly appreciate it if you would leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about HBU Center for Christianity and Business at Christianity and business dot com. Thanks for listening and remember to keep integrating biblical values onto your book