Welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast with Host Derek here, an initiative of the RTW Dunham College of Business at Houston Baptist University. This is the show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. You can get more information about the HBU Center for Christianity and Business and sign up to receive free access to all five issues of the Christian Business Review Journal by visiting our website at ChristianityInbusiness.com.
SPEAKER_00On today's episode, we're joined by Shay Bynes. Shay is the host of the Kingdom Driven Entrepreneur Podcast and founder and chief fire igniter of KDE's Community of Entrepreneurs. She's the author of several best-selling books. Her latest book is Grace Over Grind, How Grace Will Take Your Business Where Grinding Can't. And she's a dear friend of mine, and she is a leader in the marketplace. She's an equipper and uh she's been making a powerful impact and helping to point people toward God, God's ways of doing business, as you're gonna hear about in this episode. Shay, welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_03Hi, Darren. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00Tell us about, and this is gonna be an interesting um topic to hear talked about on a business podcast, but tell us about your supernatural childbirth where you felt no pain at all, and what does that experience, what can that teach us about partnering with God in business? So you want to start there, huh, Darren? I want to jump right into it.
SPEAKER_03Okay, all right, that's cool. So I when I got pregnant, so my daughter is now 13. At the time of this recording, she's 13 months old. Okay. At the time that I got pregnant, uh, a friend of mine reached out to me because he had told me prior to my pregnancy how his wife had had their sons completely pain-free, like no medication, no nothing. No, and that she didn't feel anything other than a little pressure, and she was and uh, and I'm like, that sounds real good, man, you know. But you know, I've had two kids. And you know, I was having a hard time kind of wrapping my mind around what he was saying. But he told me that she had read this book. Uh, and so he said, When you get pregnant, I'm gonna send you this book. So he sends me this book, and I'm like, I really felt like I was it, I really felt like this is something that I should really stand in faith for. Like I didn't tell a lot of people, Darren, because you know, they think I was nuts, right? So I told my husband, I didn't even tell my midwife or anything. Uh, but I went through this process of the of the uh the pregnancy, and when it was time to have her, it was very interesting because the whole time during labor, which was a very, very long labor, uh, I was feeling pressure, but I was feeling no pain. And even as contractions were increasing, it was like I felt I could tell I was having contractions. I could tell things were moving along, but I didn't feel pain. My husband and I, we were like playing cards and you know, we were just kind of hanging out and stuff like that. The midwife's looking at me like, um, are you like, are you sure you're in labor? You know? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm not. She kept saying that. I'm like, you know, whatever. And so, but what happened was I was supposed to give birth at the birthing center with a midwife. And unfortunately, uh, what happened was my my water broke, but then my labor stalled. And so they I was gonna have to be trans. I had to go over to the hospital to get Pitocin. And for any man who may not have a clue what I'm talking about here, uh, Petocin basically, when they give it to you, it it speeds up your labor. So if your labor stalled and it's not progressing, they'll give you Pitocin through an IV. And when they do that, it's like your labor accelerates to make sure that you have the baby. So I always have to make sure, make sure people know what in the world I'm talking about. So when you take Pitocin, and I know about Pitocin because I took it with my second child, and it was like the labor was it was tough. It was very tough, you know, when they accelerated it.
SPEAKER_00But you usually get the epidural along with that, right?
SPEAKER_03Well, well, and I did with my second because it just got so out of, it just got so crazy, you know. It was like going from zero to 10, you know? And so I was feeling really upset as I was driving as my husband was driving me to the hospital and I called my girlfriend, and I was like, oh my gosh, you know, I was believing the one girl, you know, one friend I had told. It's like, you know, I was believing for the supernatural childbirth, and now I've got to get Pitocin. And she's like, Is God bigger than Pitocin? And I'm like, yeah. And she's like, okay, so what you were believing for at the birthing centers, you know, is keep standing in faith for it. And I said, okay. And Darren, I went into that labor and delivery room, and it was actually pretty surreal because even as they had me on monitors, they're giving me Pitocin, and my contractions are getting, you know, stronger and stronger and stronger, as evidenced by the monitor showing how bad the contractions were getting, I wasn't feeling any worse. You know, I was, it was just, I just kept feeling pressure, but I kept not feeling pain. And so it got to a point where I was starting to get, you know, um tired because of my labor had been so long. And so I'd asked the nurse, can you please check and see how far along I am? And she said, no, because you're at risk of infection. So we're not gonna check. We'll just wait until you're having a hard time managing your contractions. And I'm like, that's not gonna happen, you know, because I'm doing fine here. So I got really frustrated there. And I was like, they're not gonna check me. It's been out, it's been like 24 hours. This is getting nuts. And my girlfriend, who's a nurse at the hospital, said to me, you know, you're gonna be fine, but you really need to just rest. You need to rest. You know, they're not gonna check you now. You just need to rest. And I said, there's no way, because there's no way they need to check me. And I was getting really frustrated. So what they did, what my friend said was, if you just rest, everything will be fine. I got in the bed, Darren, and I'm like, okay, I'll rest. And when I decided that I was going to rest, and I got in that bed, it was as if I was like in some kind of bubble or something because I literally felt nothing, no pressure, no nothing. I felt nothing. But all I could hear was occasionally I'd hear my my uh my friend, the nurse and my husband saying things like, wow, those contract, oh wow, that was a that was a huge contraction. Wow, that was that was wild. Oh, that was off the charts. I would hear their voices, but I couldn't feel anything. And I didn't see anything. I was like, I was like I was gone, but I was there. It was very interesting experience. And all I remembered was having that experience and then waking up and saying and and seeing the nurse. And she said, You're nine centimeters, so you're almost there. And then I'm like, great. And then I was gone again and I felt nothing. My husband tells me the story, my friend tells me the story, and it's just hilarious to hear them tell me because I don't remember it much of this at all. And they said they were just watching as the contractions were getting worse, and I'm just sitting there in complete silence. And so they were like, This is really bizarre. And then I woke up and I said, The baby's coming, the nurse wasn't there. And they're like, No, no, no, no, no, no, you can't have the baby now because the nurse isn't there. And I'm like, no, the baby's coming like right now. And they said, because I again I was out of it, they were scrambling, trying to find the nurse, make sure everything, every the doctor's ready and every all of this stuff. And they barely got there when I had Malik. It was like one push. That was it, done. And it was the, I mean, I've had three kids. It was the easiest by far, the most graceful labor and delivery I have ever experienced. And it was funny because here I am having that childbirth experience, and then God speaks to me about how this relates to how we can work, right? And then people are showing me that this is grace. While you labor, you should rest, right? And you can experience my supernatural grace, and you will have astounding results. You will glorify me and you will astonish others, right? He's like, what happened in your childbirth experience? The way people were astonished by what happened, and the way you went through a labor in my rest, and then felt, and then you experienced my supernatural grace and the benefits of that and the favor through that through that process. That's how you work. That's how it should be for an entrepreneur in business. And I'm like, who does that? Like, who takes a childbirth experience and then's like, hey, add that to your book, you know?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, when I heard you share that, I mean, and read it in your book, it made so I mean it made so much sense. Obviously, you're a great writer, but the just that analogy is such an illustration of the power of of rest. And and not not always in the sense of I'm gonna go take a nap, but but maybe. I mean, we think about Jesus taking a nap in the boat in the midst of the storm. And so in in the delivery room, even when they were throwing the Pitocin at you, yes, what what Shay, what is the Pitocin of the business world that gets thrown at us, right? Isn't there so much that comes at us like that?
SPEAKER_03There's so much that comes at us, right? That puts us in in a state of like needing to grind, you know, or being distracted by the next thing, or trying to make sure that make this thing happen, and something that comes along. Well, I gotta do that because I've got to make this happen, and I've got to do this, and I've got to make this happen, and you're just all over it, right? That's like your that's like the Potosin. Yeah, clients are yelling at you like zero to ten.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, clients want things done yesterday, and or the boss is is breathing down your neck, or I mean, maybe there's all kinds of of pressure happening in the macroeconomic world, and and and you know, it's all just that Potosin that just wants us to grind it out, right?
SPEAKER_03That's it. Do you mind if I read because and it's funny because I never have memorized this because I mean God gave it to me like in a moment and I just wrote it and I haven't even memorized it yet. But can I read this one sentence of how God just like pulled it together? Please. Okay, so this is from the book. I said, uh, this is what is not only possible, but what should be a way of life for entrepreneurs in the kingdom. Instead of having painful and strenuous labor, and I put grind in parentheses, you can rest in the empowering presence of God and put grace as you labor, which is work, so that you are positioned for his supernatural ability, which causes you to birth the ideas on your heart in a way that brings you extraordinary success, astonishes others, and gives glory to him. Like that's how he just rounded that whole thing out and actually pause this entire book to make sure that that experience did happen, and I could write that in the book right in the beginning. Because I had already, the book was already, he told me I couldn't fit, I couldn't, you know, release it while I was pregnant.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_03And now I know why.
SPEAKER_00And I mean, I don't know any women that wouldn't say, I'll sign up for that, just like you did, you know, supernatural childbirth. I mean, but I mean, my wife included, I mean, she still had those labor pains, and it was not, I mean, the interesting thing that happened was the the difference between that first labor, which was 18 hours, yeah, and it was very, very difficult. And the second, where she she did get a hold of, I think maybe the same book that you're talking about. But the when the midwife showed up, I think she was already at like I think eight centimeters, something like that. And she just thought it was just sort of, you know, it was just sort of kind of pre-labor. It wasn't the act, but it was actual active labor that she found out as soon as the midwife showed up. So, you know, I think it did have a lot to do with her kind of opting out of one system and opting in, you know, to the other one. Yes. So in the business world, like, why don't we? It seems like a no-brainer. Why would we opt to take the the blue pill, you know? Like, why would we want to continue to stay in this grind? Why do we do that?
SPEAKER_03I think that there's a lot of reasons, honestly. Um, some of it is rooted in pride and the uh whether someone wants to admit it or not, some of it's rooted in pride and the desire to make things happen, um, just to be able to set, say, I did I did that. And sometimes the reason why someone feels like they want to do that is because they're actually trying to prove something to somebody. So there could be someone in their life who, you know, had something negative to say, or multiple people in their lives who have something negative to say, or, you know, and it's kind of like, you know, I'll show them, you know, I'll show them through my success. You know, I'm gonna shut up my haters through my success, you know, those types of things. Um, and it's actually really the cult, I mean, it's the culture of entrepreneurship. When I think about, you know, in the years that I was doing business before God changed my heart about this. I mean, the people that I learned from, that was that's the message. Hustle, grind, make it happen, make it happen. You know, you make it happen, make it happen. I mean, that was the language. That's, you know, that's the culture, right? And that's the badge of honor that you wear as someone as who's an entrepreneur. So I think part of it is just kind of the cultural influence of the entrepreneurial world, you know? And then I think other things is just, you know, you know, pride, honestly. It's just like, you know, just because I feel like I'm gonna make it happen. But the other thing, which I believe in my was my case, is that I don't think I had a strong enough faith in God that He's got me. You know, I didn't, I wasn't strong enough in my identity in Christ to understand that I could truly surrender everything to him. And so it wasn't so much that I wanted to do it all by myself per se, but I just wasn't solid enough in who I am in him to be able to start just releasing things, you know, with my type A personality, very achievement-oriented project manager type of person, you know, just go there, make it happen type of personality. I mean, he built me that way, right? So, I mean, that was me, but by me like that, and a lot of people are like that, those type A personalities, you know, in business, if that's not if that's not rooted and grounded in God and a healthy identity in him, then it can run amok real easy. And you just trying to do everything in your own strength.
SPEAKER_00Right. So the subtitle of the book, Grace Over Grind, is how Grace Will Take Your Business Where Grinding Can't. So, Shay, where where does grace take your business that grinding can't?
SPEAKER_03So that is that scripture that we all love in Ephesians 3 and 20 that talks about that exceeding abundantly above all we could ask, think, or even imagine, those are the types of things that you experience in business when you say, I'm surrendering this to you, I'm opening myself up to divine downloads, you know, God ideas, things that your favor, not me trying to knock down doors, your promotion, all of those things, when we open ourselves up to that, then that's when we experience things that we never even imagined, you know. Uh it's it's better, it's better than what we could have done on our own, you know, and so that's what we experience. And that's why it's why grace will take your business where grinding can, because it's not that grinding won't get you somewhere, because it does. People do it all the time. I mean, the reason why it's the culture of the world of entrepreneurship is because people grind and they make things happen and things are happening, right? But we're talking about what's God's best, you know, and if we're kingdom focused and we're kingdom driven, then we also truly want to glorify him. And if we make things happen and we're just like, I grinded it out, and so therefore I'm, you know, I'm self-made, grinded it out, and then you do it and it's like, oh, to God be the glory, it's like, no, not really. No one really believes that, you know, it's not really believable because no one's seeing what happened that you didn't do.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Right. So if we're talking about experiencing his best and having a greater kingdom impact through what we do because what we do testifies of the goodness of him, you know, then that's we've got to work in his grace.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Instead of by our own strength. There's a huge difference in what that looks like.
SPEAKER_00Right. And you've been, as I have, following this faith and work movement over the past several years, and and you know, there almost seems to be in a theology of work, it can it can kind of spill over into an idolatry of work. Yes. Don't you think? Yes. I mean, and we can actually kind of put a uh with a theology of work and and emphasizing how work matters to God, yes, work matters to God, but kind of doing it with that puritanical uh understanding of work and how work is is a I mean, it was created before the fall, it wasn't just a product of the fall. And and so we can end up in our efforts to elevate the the our perceived value of work unto God. Don't isn't it, isn't it, are we getting to a point where maybe we're kind of making a bit of an idol out of the work?
SPEAKER_03That's so funny that you would use that language because in the book I actually talk about this because I was hanging out, I was at the park, we were about to take family pictures, I was with my family, in the middle of me just like hanging out looking at my kids. God says to me, like I heard the Holy Spirit say to me, Too many Christians idolize.
SPEAKER_00Too many believers, I too many believers in business idolize hard work.
SPEAKER_03They exalt hard work over the presence of God in their business. Yeah, that's exactly what he said to me. I was just in the middle of nothing, I was just hanging out, about to take my family pictures. That's what he says to me. And I was like, wow, that's so true, you know. And I could see lots of evidence of that. People who love God, you know, love God, but still idolizing hard work and exalting, and and that was that second point, exalting hard work over my presence in their business, right? So it's again, so if you know, they might not even think of it as hustling and grinding, but it actually still is. They they might say they're grinding for God, you know, they've got a Holy Ghost hustle, they've got a whatever, right? You know, they can call it what you can call it all kinds of things, you know. I wake, pray, and I grind, you know, whatever. I've got goals and I grind, you know, I got goals, grind, and all of that. But all it does is make it seem like some like hyper-spiritualized version of you know, exactly what the world's talking about.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_03You just you just kind of toss God on it, but you still exalted hard work over the presence of God in your business.
SPEAKER_00Right. I think I and I just as you were talking, I got this this thought that it's almost like every believer has their own kind of soundtrack. Because I listen to music while I work. I think we all have sort of a soundtrack that could be played over the way we approach business in this way, whether it's with sort of this like pro-wrestling entrance music where that's the way people a lot of people feel like they need to kind of walk into the office. Yeah. Um, but then that's not the approach that it sounds like you're talking about. What I mean, not that you know, I think the other the other side is that, well, we're just gonna, you know, I just hear soaking the soaking music, for those who are familiar with the terminology, um, is kind of the soundtrack to to the way I approach work. But I'm I'm wondering how much of this relates to spiritual gifting. Uh, you know, after all, all of the gifts, whether it's leadership, you know, whether it's administration, prophecy, worship, that I believe that's certainly a spiritual gift, is uh featured you in a book on spiritual gifts, um as as walking in this gift of worship. Um, but they're called grace gifts. Even the ones that might seem to where the Mary is saying, Oh, you're a Martha. And and and so even the gifts that seem hyperactive, yes, like kind of rooted in works and trying to earn something or something, um, those are still grace giftings, depending on how they're motivated, which I mean I think that's what makes the difference. Right.
SPEAKER_03That's what what you just said is what makes the difference. And like what is your what is your motivation? I mean, that's this whole thing when we talk about like someone being kingdom driven. How there's people who are Christian entrepreneurs, they're entrepreneurs who happen to love Jesus, and then there's some people who are kingdom driven, they're motivated, right? What is your motivation? I'm motivated by the kingdom, right? So, you know, it's it's just a difference. Like, where's your heart? What's what's your focus? I think some going back to your comment about someone who like might want to like turn on wrestling music or whatever, God can be in that, you know. I mean, everyone's designed differently, right? So it doesn't mean that everyone has to like put on soaking music, be like, okay, this is how I get my work started. I lay on the floor before the Lord and I put the soaking music on for an hour and I pray in the Holy Ghost for an hour. You know what I'm saying? Like everyone, you know, it's everyone's different, right? Someone couldn't, I mean, God is God is in that too. I mean, if you think about it, it's like uh even with um I've heard someone might be like, Listen, I come in at my with my wrestling music, but it gets me jazzed up, it gets me excited, but I can still be like, I'm excited to do business with you, God. What do you have to say to me with me this morning? Right? Like you can I can still see how that could flow, you know, everybody is different. He works with our personalities and stuff like that. I mean, I happen to find some environments to be more conducive for hearing and stuff like that, but that's because that's how I'm built, right? But whereas someone else, it might look a little bit differently, and I think that's okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, because even if you take a gift like worship and how people worship. God. One of the books that I it was one of the first books I read when I gave my life to the Lord was a book by Gary Thomas about it, it was titled The Sacred Pathways. And he was talking about these different uh spiritual temperaments that we're we're gifted to worship God in different ways. So, you know, you have like he talked about the naturalist. So this is a person that wants to go hiking 20 miles out in the woods to go meet with God. And then you've got like the intellectual, like C.S. Lewis, that is encountering God through and like Thomas Aquinas, encountering God through studies and just wrestling with these like deep theological concepts, and you have like the confrontationalists like Peter and or the the activists that that's how they like that's how they worship God, but so so but it sounds like so. How do we reconcile that? Because you know, I hear this teaching about be a be a Mary, not a Martha, and so those of us that are the kind of D-type personalities, very task-oriented, how do we how do we put grace over grind uh the way God has wired us uniquely?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think that's a good idea.
SPEAKER_00Because I know you can relate to that as well.
SPEAKER_03I can absolutely relate to that.
SPEAKER_00You're a get or done. I mean, you made it, you made it happen out your in your corporate career, um, you know, and and and now you're making it happen there in KDE with your mentoring program and everything. But like, how do we as D-type personalities approach that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I can really relate to this because my background is in software engineering, so highly logically oriented, then I'm a project manager, then a program director. I mean, everything that I did was very task-focused and also very logic based. Okay, so just so you understand that the context from which I'm coming at. But you can absolutely have God, and God is a God of details as well, right? And so if we have, if we're task-oriented, that's totally fine. But the question is, are those tasks surrendered to God? Are you still enough to hear when he directs you a different way from your task? Are you willing to make your plans, but then submit those plans to him and be willing to move away from them, to course correct, to do all of those things? Are you willing to not only just seek God on the front end and then just take it and start running? Instead of doing that, are you willing to say, you know, on a regular basis, just be like, as I'm as I'm moving, as I'm working, you know, listen, if you're feeling led in another direction, being willing and not feeling like I'm so married to the plan, right? I'm married to this one plan and I'm married to these tasks. And, you know, it as long as you're not, your focus isn't like, I'm married to these tasks, I'm I've got to get these particular tasks done, then I think you're fine. And in fact, I think it's great. Like I loved, I loved the journey that God took me on, which was to be highly task-oriented and also highly achievement-oriented. He took me from that to having me experience what it was like to get to like, I just surrendered everything. I was like, I'm not moving until you talk to me. I went through a short season of that, probably about six months to that. And that was really great because that was helping me to refine my, I was focused on intimacy with him and refining my ability to understand when he's speaking versus, you know, my ideas in my head and stuff like that. And I went through that process. And then I was like, I went through a season of, God, why aren't you talking to me anymore? Like you were helping, you were leading every single step. Where are you? What's going on? And he's like, no, you've got my heart. So now, like, let's go. We're gonna do this together, right? So my journey was one of I've experienced both kind of extremes. But then what he did is brought them together in a beautiful way because it's like, no, I built you like this. This is your, this is your gift. This is a gift that that's how you operate. Now do that with me, right? Stop, don't do that outside of me, do it with me. So no matter what your personality type is, whether your work type is your work style, your, you know, how you're wired, I mean, God is the creator, he wired us certain ways. And so we can still, no matter what way that looks like, we can still do it along with him. We can still work alongside of him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03And be led by him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I mean, so much of it isn't, it's not just about um, am I supposed to be working or not working? It a lot of it comes down to what am I supposed to be doing? And with the grinding approach, you're just doing for the sake of doing because that's kind of the name of the game. And you just assume you're gonna uh you're you're gonna do something that works eventually, whereas God's approach with the grace and how you define it biblically as empowerment is and and leading and wisdom is that God will show us the right things to do.
SPEAKER_03That's it.
SPEAKER_00And so we don't waste a lot of energy spinning our wheels. Uh I mean, when the Bible says talks about redeeming the time, redeeming that time that you would otherwise be spinning your wheels doing stuff that you should have never been doing in the first place, and God will God will use that if you if we'll listen, if I'll listen and pay attention to like you know, you and Dr. Jim say, be led. Yes, that's it. That's what it's about.
SPEAKER_03It makes all the difference in the world, and you see the fruit, and when you start experiencing the fruit of that, when you just really walk that out, you become a bit more convinced that you know, this is this is the better way, right? This is the better way. I talk in the book, I get so many examples in the book, not just from my own um life and work, but of others as well, you know, people who received, you know, dreams from God that took that you know took action on the dreams that God gave, like literally in the night, you know, dreams that they've received, or they've received answers and solutions and ideas and things like that in their sleep, which is also biblical. And so, you know, so there's stories about that. There's stories about people who, you know, there was, I know, I think you had this testimony too about uh taking a Sabbath, you know, really feeling like, you know, I need to take this Sabbath. You know, I have a story in there about that and just the just the wonderful things that happened in her business as a result of you know, honoring that as a part of um, you know, what she had a conviction to do. And I and I think it's just one of those things where it's an invitation, like many things with God, it's an invitation. We can choose to accept it or not, but it's an invitation to experience more of Him. It's an ex it's it's an invitation to experience His best. And if we choose it, we are, we get on what I call the wild and crazy and amazing adventure with God. And that's and when you're on that adventure, like you don't, you don't want to get off that ride. Like once you, once you step in, you're once you step into that adventure, you're just like, there's no turning back because you realize that even in the challenges, because it doesn't mean sometimes people think, oh, we're talking about the grace of God and we're talking about favor and we're talking about, you know, they think everything goes great all the time. That's not true. But when you're operating in his grace, he also gives you the grace, which is sufficient, right? To work through the situations that are hard. There's work through the challenges, work through the things that you came up that you didn't expect that you know can can disrupt what you're doing in business or you know, whatever it is you're called to do. And so I think it's just one of those things that once you accept the invitation, you realize it's so much better with him than trying to figure this thing out and trying to, you know, wear the badge of honor of I made it happen.
SPEAKER_00Yes, beautiful. Well, I have a verse that I would that you talk about in the book, and I would like you to unpack that for us in just a minute. But before we do that, um, kingdomdriven entrepreneur.com is the website. Shea, tell us what you have going on and how people can get connected with you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so we have a lot of resources there on kingdomdriven entrepreneur.com. I'll point out one. We have this uh free course and it's called Firestarter School 101. And basically it's just a few kind of foundations of what it looks like and a practical way to partner with God in the work that we do, right? And so if you go to kingdomdriven entrepreneur.com, if you just go right to slash course, you'll go directly to the page where you can get Firestarter School 101. And I like to direct people there because it gives them just those beginning foundations, a little bit of a taste of what we're going, what they're gonna be hearing a lot more of when they join the community, right? Or if they become one of the um igniters in our mentoring program or anything that we're doing, it kind of gives them those beginning foundations of what does this look like and what do we even talk, what are we even talking about when we say doing business in partnership with God?
SPEAKER_00Yes. It was kingdomdriven entrepreneur.com forward slash course. Course. Beautiful. You talk about 2 Corinthians chapter 9, verse 8, and God is able to make all grace abound towards you, that you always having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work. Shea, could you encourage us with that verse, just kind of unpack that for us as we wrap it up here?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I I really love that scripture because it's it's basically referring to the unlimited power of his grace, the right, that there's no there's no limit to it, right? We are abounding in grace, should we choose to walk in it, right? And that that means is that no matter what it is that you're called to, whatever it is you're walking out, whatever challenges you face, it doesn't matter what's going on, that his grace, you are abounding in grace, and that grace, and going back to what we talked about with the other scripture, which I wish I could remember exactly what the address was, that a grace is sufficient for us through that journey, right? So it's to me that's an that's an encouragement to me because that means that no matter what I'm doing, God's grace is what gets me through.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Shea, such a fun conversation. Always enjoy talking to you, my friend. And may God continue to bless everything you're doing with Kingdom Driven Entrepreneur and your your kids, your hubby, and um sure appreciate you.
SPEAKER_03Thanks, Darren. Good to be here. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we'd greatly appreciate it if you would leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity of Business Podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about the HBU Center for Christianity and Business at Christianitybusiness.com. Thanks for listening, and remember to keep integrating biblical value into your business.