Welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast with us there, an initiative of the RCW College of Business at Houston Capital University. This is the show to help Christian business leaders integrate biblical values into business. You can get more information about the HP Center for Christianity and Business and receive free access to all five pages of the Christian Business Review Journal by visiting our website at Christianitybusiness.com.
SPEAKER_01On today's episode, we're joined by Danine Troop Witrago. Danine is a speaker and trainer relieving the guilt from faith-based business women by teaching them to connect faith and business and serve God more through their work. She leads women through professional, personal, and spiritual hands-on growth experiences by providing workshops, retreats, and coaching. And she's created the Calling Clarity course to help women succeed at and clarify how to live out God's calling. Apparently, she's really great at alliteration and tongue twisters as well.
SPEAKER_02That's actually one of the things I love is alliteration. And so that's something I do all the time.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. And she's the author of the new book, Clarify: 12 Principles to Illuminate Your Calling to the Marketplace. And I got connected with Deneen. I guess it's been about a year since we first met. And I've just been so encouraged, inspired by the message that she's bringing to Christians in the marketplace and uh particularly to women, uh, Christian business women in the marketplace. And um, full disclosure here, I got the privilege of being able to publish this wonderful book and definitely recognition recommend that everybody go and pick up a copy. I think you're about to find out uh why you need to do that here in just a second. So, welcome to the Christianity and business podcast, Denise.
SPEAKER_02Well, thank you very much. I'm so happy to be here today.
SPEAKER_01So, Denise, what led you into this arena of coaching Christian business women?
SPEAKER_02Oh, the easy answer is the Sunday school answer, Jesus, right? So, what I did was I had been really just trying to decide what I wanted to do next. And God kind of led me in a really different direction. I'm an educator by trade, so that I that's what I did for many years. But then I was homeschooling and I was um doing other things. I was doing some classes and teaching Spanish and things like that for other homeschoolers, but I felt like I wanted to do something different. And I had this small idea that I just wanted to make some extra money because my oldest daughter was getting ready to go off to college. And I thought if I had some extra money, then I could give her some stuff for her books or something like that. And I actually got a call into business, believe it or not. I was out of school. I had tried to go back to the real classroom, not as a teacher, but as an assistant, doing a part-time job. And I lasted at that job for two weeks. And driving home that day, I said, God, I don't know what you want me to do. I know I want to do something, I just don't want to teach anymore. And he actually directed me into direct sales first. So I became a team leader and did all of those things. And selfishly, because I was um, I was selling Christian products, and I wanted to find women that would actually buy my products and didn't have to, I guess, go ask their husbands for $40. And I thought I've got to find the business women. And God said, Well, your first idea was to have a small business, but I'm gonna open it up, and here's where the I really want you to serve. I want you to serve Christian women because of your background, because of your heart for them. And though you thought you found them, you know, kind of like because I needed money, I really made you find them because I want you to serve them. So it's not really a really big uh like honoring like God vision. It's me trying to do something and God going, Yeah, but I have a bigger plan for you.
SPEAKER_01When there's a certain need that that you're maybe a pain point that you're fe feeling, chances are there are other people that are experiencing that thing, and that God has called, maybe called you to go out and provide that solution. That's what you've done for Christian business women that you could so relate to. And so now in this book, clarify, you talk about 11 biblical women, and they're actually 12, and we'll get to the 12th one in just a little bit. But each of these women illustrates a principle that you can apply to your business and entrepreneurial endeavors to make it God-centered and to serve others. So we don't have time to go through all of them, although it it would be a wonderful, wonderful experience, I think, for all of us. But I think people need to go get this book. Uh, so I think we'll probably talk about three of them. Um, first of all, let's let's talk about Eve. What is it that we can learn from Eve about our entrepreneurial and business endeavors?
SPEAKER_02I think specifically for women, we need to know that we are mandated, we are called by God to work and that our work is good. And so a lot of times people think, oh, I hate my job. You know, it's like 77% of people will tell you that they don't like their job. But work is a gift from God. It's not part of the fall, it was mandated before the fall. And Eve shows us that as women, we were meant to come alongside and be a helper. And we were meant to work as well. Um, you know, she was the first woman, she was the first um ten, you know, tender of the garden or gardener with along with Adam. She was um one of the um the the the thing I like about her is that she had to depend on God for everything. And I think a lot of times as women, we're not thinking that our work is something that God can use and we should depend on him to really serve in that capacity. But that's what that's what Eve did. She helped him uh Adam to to oversee the animals, to do all of these things. And because she didn't have a mother, a grandmother, a mentor, a business coach, she didn't have anyone else besides Adam, who was really new to all of this stuff, too. She had to depend on God for everything that she needed through her work. And I think that if we can reframe our our mindset to think that our work is where we serve, and it's not always when we volunteer at church or we volunteer in the community that we're serving others, but that God has called us specifically as women in the marketplace to our business, specifically to serve Him in a very specific way, and it is good.
SPEAKER_01I love that, and it really is without regard to uh what type of work it is that you're doing, whether it is as uh uh you know, staying at home, um, working with the kids, I mean, what a you know, that what a demanding but honorable job that is. And of course, that kind of changes at different points in a woman's life um or a man's life. I mean, my I've got my kids um right here at home where I record this podcast, and my wife is just does an amazing job um taking care of them, but as well as you know, she's found other ways to uh for her, it's amazing. She actually wakes up at about four o'clock in the morning to teach uh English to kids in China over the internet. And I mean, she does that for you know a couple hours before the kids wake up, and it's just been such a fulfilling thing for her. I mean, she certainly the kids are such a huge part of her work, but you know, she also has this opportunity to reach beyond our household and uh make an impact all over the world through um through this this opportunity she has to teach kids in China. So no matter what that work is, it's good, right? It's you know, it's not like we there's this kind of work that's that's not good in the eyes of God, and then there's this other, don't we kind of compartmentalize work like that?
SPEAKER_02Oh, definitely. And that that's the that's the other part of what I try to bring to women is that we need to live whole, holy, and authentic. No matter if we're in front of the PTA, we're at our home with our family, or we're heading up the a company as the CEO and chairman of the board. We have to be the same no matter where we are. And you're right, in a woman's life, um, we have different stages and different seasons. And I will say that I'm in a season where God is opening up so many new and exciting things. And because I was faithful and trusted him with each step along the way, I'm ready to step into this bigger role that I could never have imagined before. My tiny little vision of making some extra money has turned into having a book and speaking and really going towards the desires of my heart. Did I think that that was going to happen back in the day when I was homeschooling my two children and teaching Spanish? No, I thought I'd missed something of God's plan because I wasn't a missionary. So I said, Oh, I'm going to, you know, teach all of these kids Spanish and they'll be the missionaries. And then I had that opportunity to actually do that. And but God showed me that that wasn't really what He had for me, that it was a desire to do something more, and that figuring out how to do that in your life at every stage just prepares you for the next part of your life. It's never over.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. Another biblical woman you talk about is Lydia, uh, one of Paul's chief supporters, uh, and and certainly had a powerful ministry in her own right as well. What is the lesson there, or one of the key lessons that you draw out in the book?
SPEAKER_02Lydia really is talking about your sphere of influence and that you need to use your own personality. You need to not hide your personality to do your business because that's part of what we call the brand, right? So I love Lydia because Lydia never apologizes for having um high clientele because she was a seller of purple fabric. I always tease that she had the designer clients, but then she had the knockoff brand clients as well. But I'm sure she looked the part, she was the head of her household, she was very um generous with all of the wealth that she had. The church, the early church in Philippi, there was in her home. And I just see her as really having that strong leadership personality and being generous. And we can't shy away from who God has made us to be. When we become a believer in Jesus, he doesn't say you have to act a certain way, you have to have this personality. He created you the way he did, and he wants you to bring that into your business. It also makes you to stand out in your industry, especially if you're in an industry that is saturated. You can really stand out by being the person that you are and creating your brand around all the things you know about yourself, whether that's your values or your personality or your strengths or your spiritual gifts.
SPEAKER_01That's a that's a really interesting thing to point out there because I think when uh especially Christians in general, when we sense God calling us into business, that that means we need to basically start up like a you know humanitarian organization where we're kind of on the verge of being a nonprofit just because you know it's it's not um we f we feel like we're not allowed to like make money or like sell high-priced items or products or services uh because maybe it don't you think that has a lot to do with just kind of our view of money?
SPEAKER_02I do. I think it does uh in a lot of ways, but I've also known that for someone to take you seriously, you cannot be charging minimals, you're not gonna get the quality of people that you want. And if God's called you into business, you need to really step up and into the same level of income of the people that He's asking you to serve. Um, and so you know, the nonprofits are awesome, and I know lots of people that run them. And but as a Christian businesswoman, we've got to figure out how God uses what we can bring to the table because I like to say we're all like fabulous women. If you meet any of us, you we are fabulous women, and how do we stay humble? We stay humble by doing what God is asking us to do and aligning ourselves with Him and really sitting, I call him my CEO, sitting with the boss every day and saying, What direction should I go? How should I do this? And really accepting the gifts that he's giving us and accepting the abundance that he wants to give us. It may not always happen financially, but it's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_01And I I love how you point out there with Lydia that she really was a woman of influence. I mean, it it because I think some people have this, it's like a theology or maybe just kind of a cultural mindset that from what they grew up with, that women are just kind of supposed to be silent, and the that the man is supposed to be the one that's interacting with influential people, and women are just kind of supposed to stay behind the scenes, but Lydia really kind of blows that out of the water.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, she really does. And like I said, for us as Americans, American women, she's really our great-great-great-great-grandmother of of the faith because she's the first European convert to Christianity. And so she's really the catalyst for the whole movement into Europe. And I really love the fact that many of the women in this book, they were not all wives, they were not all mothers, they were not even all saleswomen like Lydia was, but God used the work that he had for them in their lives to do something great for him.
SPEAKER_01Tell us about Hulda. I think uh Hulda is not one of the more prominent biblical women. Uh, what is uh tell us about her and the the lesson that you draw up from her life.
SPEAKER_02Well, Hulda is a person that um does what God puts in front of her without knowing what it's going what's going to happen, without being worried about the results. And so she continues to build her reputation on the things that she loves. God has put it into her heart to study his word, and she actually lives in Jerusalem in a time when the temple is destroyed, and the Israelites are real, the Hebrew people are really not following God. And so she lives in what's called the college area around the temple, but her influence is very, very small because of the fact that no one's really paying attention. What we do get is she does have a little bit of an advantage because her husband is the king's wardrobe keeper or he helps him to dress. So I imagine that Hulda went into the queen's chambers to help her, and it's Queen Jedediah. And Queen Jedediah, if anyone remembers, is a follower of God and is Josiah's mother. And Josiah, I imagine, is in the Queen's chambers listening to these conversations that Huldah and she are having. And we know that he restores many of the things in the temple and in the in the Jewish faith. And then when the temple is restored, he's the one who asks Huldah to come and verify a script, a piece of the manuscripts that they find in the rubble. And she's the one that's actually the catalyst for the revival in the Jewish nation during that time, during the time of Josiah, because she had built such a reputation with him that she was such a great influence, and it was very strategic. And I just think it's wonderful. She didn't know that was going to happen. It took 18 years into Josiah's reign before it did happen. But I love the fact that she was faithful, doing the work that God put in front of her and what he she knew she was supposed to do.
SPEAKER_01So, how does in today's environment, how do you how does one build a strong reputation? What does that take?
SPEAKER_02Well, it takes being consistent with whatever you say you're going to do. I do a values exercise with um all of my women who do my calling clarity course, and part of it is actually in the book as well. And you have to decide what are your top five values? What are things that are important to you? And then you have to consistently show up in that way. So for me, for example, learning is a great value for me. So I'm consistently showing up, talking about books and sharing my information and things like that. Creativity is very important to me. And so it also, when you use your values, it allows you to say no to certain things so that you can focus on the things that God is calling you to do. So I think really that reputation is just like anything. I think it's, I don't know if it's Seth Godin who says this, but he says, be the most helpful person in the room. That's building your reputation. Listening to people, that's building your reputation. So it depends on what your values are and what you want others to see and say about you, that's how you want to go and towards building your reputation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, and and the reality is that we all have a reputation. It it just might not be the reputation we want to have, or the reputation we think we have. Um, but whatever it is that we're doing consistently, or it and I think it varies from person to person, you know, because people interact with us in different arenas of life, but whatever that consistent behavior or attitude or performance or whatever character, whatever it is, uh in front of that person, that's our reputation in front in front of that person. And we have the power to determine what kind of uh person we're gonna be, how we're gonna show up in the world.
SPEAKER_02Oh, exactly. I mean, and that's something that is a daily, again, it's a daily conscious decision and choice that we make. So we can make a choice to say that whatever has come into our head, or we can make a choice to keep our mouth closed. So it's in those daily decisions. And again, if we're aligning ourselves with Christ, if we're aligning ourselves with God every day and taking that time to develop our vertical relationship of faith, then connecting it to our business is going to be so much smoother and so much easier. But I think a lot of times what people do is they don't take the time to fill up on God first and find out what He wants for them before they just go and do every idea they think they should have. And I I think we have sometimes it turned around. And I think that's what's important when we're talking about connecting our faith in our business, that it needs to start with our faith.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And in the I think to use a business term, we're kind of talking about branding, right, with Holda, because she was really at the top of mind when it comes to we need somebody that is of high character that hears from the Lord uh for this particular assignment. And who's gonna be at the top of mind in your uh from your industry or in your community when somebody's looking for expertise in a certain area or a certain uh service to be provided that you might need? They're gonna be looking for somebody with that with that reputation, you know. And of course the internet captures it with ratings and reviews and and just the word of mouth and all of that, how that how that spreads. But I think it's just such a powerful lesson here for business people about building a strong reputation.
SPEAKER_02Oh, definitely. I I teach a lot of women um about and I guess I should say I teach men as well, about LinkedIn, about using LinkedIn to build your reputation, your expertise. Because a lot of times people think that, oh, if I just do this advertisement or I just do this, that people will just knock down my door, he call me all the time to for my services. But it isn't building the reputation. Building the brand, having those people know, like, and trust you, that you really get the the attention that you need. And I I love the fact that we do have so much social media. We have many ways where we can reach out to people and and get into other areas and other spheres of influence so so much easier than it was in the past. So we have a great, we can have a great impact and influence, more so than we could even 50 years ago.
SPEAKER_01And going back to that person you mentioned that thought, well, I'll just put out, I'll just broadcast this ad and people will just come knocking. That used to work back when, back before people had the information to identify, okay, who does have the best reputation? I mean, back then, like you would pretty much just go with whoever you heard about because it was just that difficult to find the right person or the right company, a service provider for whatever it is you need. But now, I mean, there's just so many ways for people to vet and make sure that I mean, like, I just I've got to get my uh my driveway pressure washed. And and so, you know, thank God for those hoas that let you know when you know we just moved in this house and it's like, welcome to the neighborhood. You need to go get this driveway clean. Right. It's like, thanks. Um uh let me go talk to the previous owner, but no, it's too late for that. But um, anyways, I should go on to this website and and say, I need my driveway pressure washed with you know within the next 48 hours or so. And all of a sudden I've got eight pressure washers wanting to come and clean my driveway. And so which one am I gonna go with? I'm probably gonna go with the one that has the best ratings on that site.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, exactly. Because and that's another thing that we think if we have to be the best price, we don't have to be the cheapest one out there. We have to have the best reputation, we have to be building that consistently so that people, like I said before, know like and trust us, and we'll they come out of the woodwork. Um, my business coach always said that the your clients have been destined from the foundation of the world to work with you. You need to be resonating so that they, when they get close to you, they start to resonate with you. Those are the people you're meant to work with.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well said. So there, and there's several others that you mentioned, and people need to go get the book and also dive deeper into the ladies that we did talk about here. But I also want to hear your thoughts about the Proverbs 31 woman. Here's, and I'm gonna read just a brief passage that you wrote in the chapter about the Proverbs 31. You said, I am ending the book with Proverbs, the Proverbs 31 woman. I know you probably rolled your eyes and thought, of course, we had to talk about her. Does she make you feel inadequate and tired? She does for me. But upon further investigation, I discovered some interesting facts that made me do a happy dance. What do you mean in that, in that paragraph?
SPEAKER_02Well, I grew up in church, and I think that I have done a Proverbs 31 woman's study, maybe every other year, I don't know, since I've been an adult. And I um we get we really get, I don't know, I don't know if it's overtly or covertly, but we get kind of bashed over the head with this woman as a Christian woman in church. So if we are a mom, we might say, Oh, well, we don't have a business, so we're not a Proverbs 31 woman in for at home. If we're if we're not at home and we're working, we're saying, oh, well, I don't get up at, you know, dump before dawn, make the clothes, and all of these other things. And so for me, it's kind of like she's the woman that she's not real. Of the other 11 women in the book, they actually lived and breathed and lived in their culture, lived in their time, and did what God asked them to do. The Proverbs 31 woman is not even a live woman, she's a poem. And I did not realize this when I started doing the background work. I stopped taking what everybody else said about how we should be, because it's usually prescribed to us that we should follow the directives of the Proverbs 31 woman, but it's not really a prescription, it's really a poem of praise. And it was something that the Jewish men actually had to memorize because it was in praise of the women in their life, whether that was their mothers or sisters or wives or daughters, colleagues, whatever it was. And it really was talking about celebrating women, and that's what I think women need to do because it's a way that we need to show up, because the woman of the Proverbs 31 woman is a woman of valor, and that's the way we need to show up no matter what we're doing. So it's not a prescription of you have to be doing all of these things, even if some I've heard some say, Oh, you have to do these are different parts of your life. No, it doesn't mean that either. It means that no matter what you do, that you show up as a woman of valor, you show up as a woman who loves God first and has the best interest of her sphere of influence in her mind. And we need to celebrate one another as women and not tear one another down. You know, Proverbs says that you need to build each other up. Really, the Proverbs 31 woman is the wise woman that we see all throughout Proverbs, and we need to be comparing ourselves to what God says we need to do for us specifically. I don't think there can be a prescribed formula for all of us. Um, and we really need to show up in each of our situations as this woman of valor.
SPEAKER_01That's such a liberating view of the Proverbs 31 woman. I mean, I love that. And I can certainly relate. I mean, my my wife has expressed, and I mean, she she certainly does an amazing job of reflecting the those ideal qualities that you read about in Proverbs 31, but but there are but there's there's a certain frustration among women, and my wife has expressed that too, that just feeling like you have to be this perfect uh altogether put-together woman and on in every arena of life, on every range of of personality, uh, and and just hitting on all cylinders all the time is kind of the is the kind of seems to be the takeaway that a lot of women have, which just can be so discouraging. So I think this idea that it's a it's a celebration of women, and not necessarily saying that, okay, look, woman, this you need to look in the mirror and make sure this is you at all times, is not necessarily what uh what the word is getting at there for us.
SPEAKER_02No, it is not. And uh so what I do is I take the other 11 women and I break down the Proverbs 31 poem and I test show how each one of those women exemplifies a verse or two of the Proverbs 31 poem, and that I help women to apply it to themselves and see themselves as a Proverbs 31 woman because of what they are doing. Because, like I said before, not all of these um women were wives or mothers, so it doesn't apply to each one of them either, but they're all Proverbs 31 women, and so is each woman that's reading the book and all the women in the world that are following Christ.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's so well said. I mean, because you could read that and say, Oh, well, I'm not married, so I'm not a Proverbs 31 woman. I mean, how discouraging would that be? Uh you know, and because that's just not the way, and that's just side note here, Proverbs, people tend to read Proverbs incorrectly a lot of times. Proverbs are not laws. I mean, this is just some hermeneutics that you might learn in seminary here because you could take three proverbs that would contradict each other very clearly, but you have to really kind of pull back the the con and look at the context around those verses and just look at the style of the way the proverb is written, and in order to get a better understanding of the wisdom that's being shared, because it's it's not like they're not, I mean, there are laws written like Ten Commandments, a law. When you read a proverb, it's not necessarily to be taken with that type of uh hermeneutical or or interpretation. So just wanted to throw and Proverbs 31, you know, fits right in there with that advice.
SPEAKER_02I love that you're bringing in hermeneutics. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_01So, Danine, through your book and through your coaching, how do you help women apply these lessons from these incredible women?
SPEAKER_02A lot of discussion. What I think is it's really helping women to look at what they have been taught or what has been put on them and helping them to reframe their mindset, to understand that God has called them into the marketplace, into their business, into their work for a specific reason. I will say that my even my 25-year-old daughter, when she helped me write the first drafts of the book of when she wrote Eve, she's like, I always thought that my work meant that I made enough money so I could go do something else. That I could go, um that I could go. Oh, sorry, I might she said that I I could do something else. I'm sorry, I gotta back up here a little bit and reframe my own self. That that um I thought I worked so that I could go pay for going on a mission trip or giving to the church or volunteering in in the community. And now I see that God wants to use my work, my job, the thing that He's giving me expertise in because I went to school for it, the experiences I've had, he wants me to use that. So I we have a lot of conversation around just reframing that that mindset and then helping women know that God's already equipped them. There's that saying that says, God doesn't uh call the equipped, he equips the called. And I say to them, God has equipped you. You've got to figure it out, you've got to figure out how he's equipped you. Why did you go through that experience? Why did you go to that college and study under that that um that subject? Why did you do you have these talents and these different strengths? He's given you all of that because he wants you to use it, and it's our responsibility to figure out how that equipping can really work in the marketplace, like you said, with the branding. And so we have a lot of conversations around that. And then, of course, we have to get past the fear factor and trust God to take the next step and trust him for the results and do the work and be in the process and know that if we are aligned with God, that it's going to work out in the way most beneficial to show his goodness and to show him to others in the marketplace. I think it's a lot of unlearning because we've been given messages, whether, like I said, overtly or covertly, through the church, through our our religious background, through our own families. And it's a lot of um, like I said, just re-education. That's why I came up with not only the book to help women get started, um, but also the calling clarity course to help them really pull it apart and look at it and wrestle with it and be able to say, I can take some things off my plate because God wants me to focus in this direction and really understand how God is gonna use them in a real, real way. Because I've heard over and over again the the cry of women's hearts, especially in business, in the workplace, is that they say, I want to do more for God. And many times they believe that that is finding time to volunteer more at church. And when I tell them that that means we're gonna figure out how they can do that through their work, I see the shoulders come down, the hair almost relax, and they I can wipe away the guilt. And they just need someone to tell them that it's okay and that we'll figure it out together.
SPEAKER_01Beautiful. And growfromyourverflow.com is the website. Is that the best place for people to go and get connected?
SPEAKER_02Yes, it is. Now we are in transition right now, so um, what you're gonna see on the website is the personalized faith plan, which I said I start with faith. God's pushed me to serve business women. So we are going to be uh changing over the website soon, but you can go there right now and get a free download of an ebook that will give you eight spiritual practices that you can start right now in order to start building that faith in a way that is personalized to you.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. And I know we have a lot of women listening to this podcast, and I know we also have a lot of men listening to this podcast, so um I I would also speak to the men here that you have women in your life that need what Danine is is teaching, specifically for Christian business women, that um that they just might not even see themselves. They have so many gifts to bring to the marketplace, but they just feel like they're not supposed to, or so they're just not even listening to podcasts like this. I mean, I would encourage you to really uh forward this episode over to uh somebody that needs to hear this. Um so thank you for the uh thank you for what you're doing, Danine, and certainly let us know when are you gonna be changing over the the domain or are you just changing up the the look of the website? Uh we want to make sure we have the right domain to send people to.
SPEAKER_02If you go to growfromyourflow.com, it's still gonna forward to the new domain, so it won't be any problem. So um it's not in the works yet. We're trying to get that done by the end of March, but you know, I don't know what that will look like. Um, but definitely you can go there and you can find out what's going on with me at the events tab um in Metro Detroit where I live. I have my Christian women's network group, but I also have a Facebook group for a national GFYO, Christian Women's Network Group, so they can get connected with me there. And LinkedIn is my favorite place to get connected as well. So um just my whole big long name there. And I'm the only person in the world named Denine Troop Buitrago. So that's not hard to find at all. But I would love to connect with anyone about that. And of course, they have all of this information in the book. So if they go to Amazon, they can always find it there.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. Danine, what would be a parting piece of advice you could leave with our Christian business professionals today?
SPEAKER_02I would say that you can do more for God right now by connecting your faith and business. Whether you do it through this book, whether you do it with a talk with your pastor or with other individuals that are like-minded with you, you can do more just showing up whole, holy, and authentic in your work each and every day.
SPEAKER_01Well said. This book. I want to encourage everybody to go pick up a copy of Clarify. And the subtitle is 12 Principles to Illuminate Your Calling to the Marketplace. I know you can get that at Danine's website as well as on Amazon as a paperback or an ebook. And may God continue to bless everything you put your mind and your heart into.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. I hope you've enjoyed this episode. You can get more information about this podcast.com.