On today's episode, we're joined by Archie Dunos. Archie is chairman emeritus of Chesapeake Energy, which is the second largest natural gas producer in the United States. And he's also the retired chairman of the board of Conoco Phillips. He was instrumental in orchestrating Conoco's IPO separation from DuPont in 1998. And at the time, that was the largest IPO in the history of the United States. And he also negotiated the merger of Equals between CONECO Incorporated and Phillips in 2001, which created the third largest energy company in America and fifth largest in the world. And in 98, he was recognized by the World Affairs Council as Houston's International Citizen of the Year and inducted into the Oklahoma Hall of Fame. And he says the most meaningful award he has ever received was being named Houston's Father of the Year in 1998. And in addition to giving extravagantly to many other worthy causes and organizations, he and his wife have also been tremendously generous to Houston Baptist University, which has resulted in various landmarks within the campus named in their honor to attest to their strong Christian faith and values, including the R. W. Dunham College of Business, Dunham Field, the Linda and Archie Dunham Theater, and the Dunham Bible Museum. And it's safe to say that the Christianity and business podcast may not exist if it wasn't for him and his wife and their uh generosity and commitment to the Lord. So welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast, Archie.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Darren. I look forward to uh the podcast. I've not done one of these before.
SPEAKER_02Good. Well, it's gonna be fun. And uh I want to start off with uh a fun question here. And I'm curious, what was it like to meet with the chief of a reindeer herding tribe 1400 miles north of Moscow to establish some uh friendship and goodwill before drilling for oil on his land? What was that experience like?
SPEAKER_00Well, it was a a really uh interesting and and unusual experience. You know, we didn't have uh, I guess, a legal obligation to go and ask uh the chief uh for the right to drill on his property. We already had that right from the uh from the central government in Moscow. But I thought it important, you know, for uh the people that lived on the land to know who Conoco was uh in the leadership of Conoco. We were drilling uh oil wells, we were laying pipelines across uh their country, and it was important for me to make that relationship. And interestingly enough, uh actually we had an ABC film crew with us uh that filmed uh all of the interactions, both in Moscow and and up uh in the area where the the chief was. But the the reindeer chief uh is the only one uh allowed to have his wife with him. Uh and so they were they were living in a in a tent. Uh all they had was a you know a wood fire, uh just like an Indian teepee tent, and they had other uh reindeer helpers with him. They were there without their spouses, and then they had thousands uh of caribou. Uh and so we went there uh to show friendship. Uh I had uh gifts, uh had matches that would not blow out in strong winds so they could light their fires and not you know have to keep trying to keep the fire going, uh ropes, all kinds of things that they had asked us to bring uh in the form of gifts to show our appreciation to them. And uh we flew by uh helicopter, uh we were way north of the Arctic Circle, probably a minus 40 degrees at that time, uh, found the herd by just you know flying over the territory and looking for a large herd of caribou, uh, found the herd, landed, uh, went into his tent, and it was just myself and my executive assistant, uh a government official from Moscow that was with us. Uh I think I had my country manager, uh Russian country manager, uh as well, and the TV crew. And so uh we sat down, uh, I gave him the gifts, uh, we had a translator, uh, and the it was a a dirt floor. Uh and uh so he kind of after receiving the gifts reached over behind him and pulled out uh a huge uh chunk of reindeer meat, and it was frozen solid. Uh he had an old rusty knife, and uh on the fire was a pot. Uh and I didn't know what it was at the time, I found out in a few minutes. Uh but uh but anyway, he took the old knife, he cut off a chunk of reindeer meat, he stuck the knife in the meat, and then he put that in the pot, and it was a pot of of reindeer blood. And and then he handed the knife to me with the meat on the end of it, uh, and of course the TV cameras are rolling, so I knew that I I had to to eat the reindeer meat. His wife poured some tea for me, which was a great blessing because I could wash it down. And uh, but I took the meat, I had to, uh, and I ate it and then quickly got the tea and washed it down. Uh my executive assistant uh she shoved her meat into her boot, and then the the TV reporter uh raced outside the tent and and lost her breakfast. Uh so it was really uh it was really a fun experience. Uh but actually when I got back to to Moscow, I started reflecting on what I had done, and I thought, you know, this was a time, this was in uh the early 90s uh when AIDS was a real serious, you know, global kind of a problem. And I thought, now can I catch AIDS, you know, by by actually eating reindeer blood? And for for a while I was kind of concerned, so I called my company doctor back in Houston and I asked the question. Of course, he said no. Don't worry about it. You should you should be okay. So anyway, it was a great experience.
SPEAKER_02Oh man, I'm glad that uh any kind of infirmity that you could have gotten from that didn't enter the story because that could have made things a little more interesting.
SPEAKER_00So I had I had no no side effects of it whatsoever.
SPEAKER_02Wow, wow, what a what an experience. And you know, you never know where God's gonna take you in the business world. Archie, I'm I'm curious. So there's incredible commitments that you've made uh to the Lord uh in in so many ways, but one of the most uh noticeable, at least uh to me, as being a part of uh uh the HBU community is your commitment to uh the the College of Business and that your uh name bears. And so I'm curious, first of all, why do you believe God cares about business?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think I think God cares about his creation, and I mean that's you and me. And if you remember from uh from Genesis, uh I mean God instructed uh Adam and Eve to take care of the garden, and to me that's you know, that's uh early commerce. Uh and I I think in a in a world that we live in where we have capitalism and we have democracy, which is a unique combination, I think, for countries around the world, a true democracy, a true practice of capitalism, uh I think that pleases him uh because it's a it's a form of government, a form of commerce, I think, that allows uh every one of God's children, uh, if they work hard and if they persevere, if they have if they're men and women of integrity, that they can in fact achieve their dream uh and the potential uh that God has for them. And so I I think God cares about his people, and business is one of the ways that generates uh income and a good living for his people, and I think he's happy with that.
SPEAKER_02And in particular, you're also passionate about education and and HBU. So I'm curious why uh what is it about Houston Baptist University uh that uh has just so uh captured uh Urin Linda's heart that you would be uh so generous toward the school.
SPEAKER_00Well, we became familiar uh with HBU when our son Kerry uh graduated from there, so we became acquainted at that time uh with Dr. Hodo, who was the president before Dr. Sloan. Uh I realized what really an outstanding university president that he was. And I've seen a lot of university presidents. I mean, we've lived all over the United States, East Coast, West Coast. Uh I've interacted in my role as a CEO with many university presidents. And you know, there's some really outstanding university presidents and some that I would call average university presidents. I think Doug Hodo was an outstanding president, and and then when we uh when Doug retired and the board uh selected uh Robert Sloan uh to be the new president, uh to me that was an absolute home run uh for Houston and for HBU. And between Doug and Robert, I think you know their vision of creating what I would call a world-class Christian university uh is is coming to fruition. And I think the vision uh that Robert has, the Ten Pillars, uh, but most importantly, uh his just absolutely outstanding leadership. Uh I mean every institution, whether it's a hospital or a university or a corporation or a nonprofit, they all need leadership. And uh I've been around a lot of institutions that do not have outstanding leadership, and there's a tremendous difference, and you can see that even in corporate America, and I'm not going to mention any companies, but there have been a lot of companies over the last several years that have really fallen uh in their reputation and their market value, and it's all due to a lack of leadership. Uh one CEO retires, someone else comes in, the board made a mistake. Uh so leadership is critically important, and I think Robert is one of the most outstanding uh university presidents in the United States. And so I don't mind supporting uh someone, some institution that has that kind of leadership.
SPEAKER_02The one of the main books that has informed and really filled you with passion for uh honoring the Lord in business is the Book of Proverbs from the Bible. And I I read somewhere that you have read the book of Proverbs every day during your career. Um can you give us an example of how you've applied one of the Proverbs from the Bible and uh one of your leadership roles?
SPEAKER_00Well, that I could give you a lot of examples. Uh you know, I think one of the most important is uh I guess it would be Proverbs uh 22.1. I'll paraphrase, I'm not real good at paraphrasing, but it says something like a good name is to be chosen over great riches. And and to me that's you know that's a uh the it basically focuses on integrity and that uh if you're what whatever you're leading, you need to be a man or a woman of integrity, and you need to be uh focusing on maintaining uh really the integrity around your name instead of seeking something else. Uh other verses uh uh and chapters in Proverbs, uh my favorite one probably, it's not in Proverbs, it's in the book of James, James 119, which is quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger. Uh and but if you if you read the book of Proverbs, you'll you'll see pieces of that James 119 verse, I think, sprinkled throughout Proverbs. Uh and I used to put the the first letters of each of those words, quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger, at the top of my notepad at every one of my management meetings, at every one of my board meetings, whether it was Conoco or Conico Phillips or Chesapeake or all the other boards that I served on, to try to remind me, you know, that I uh, you know, don't jump in real quick, you know, don't show your ignorance by speaking too quick. Listen uh and think, and then don't get angry. Uh I mean that's the worst thing a leader can do, I think, is to get angry in public. Uh and so it's just good advice, I think. I've tried to share that with my children and my grandchildren, and later with my great-grandchildren. Uh, and so, you know, I can't say that I've read a chapter in Proverbs every day of my life, but I would say maybe 90% of the days. And I just think every leader, you know, I try to today I try to read a chapter in Proverbs, and I try to read a chapter in James. And of course, there's only five chapters in James, so you read it, read the whole book maybe every week. Uh, but they're there, you know, James is a practical book, and and so is and so is Proverbs. Maybe that's why I like both of them. Uh but I think they're good lessons in leadership in both books, and and I can't encourage enough, especially young leaders, uh, to have a practice of of reading, you know, both of those books, uh, as well as all your other management and leadership books. And uh but I think God's word is full of wisdom for for leaders.
SPEAKER_02And I love that practical takeaway about how you would uh put that verse from James about being quick to hear, uh slow to speak, slow to anger, at the top of your notepad so that as the meeting uh goes on, that you're always uh keeping that in mind. And I think somebody could take that and probably apply that at at work today. Maybe they're on their way to work, you know, maybe consider writing that out uh before you go into your uh meeting just so you can uh stay mindful of that. Uh Archie, in addition to reading the Proverbs uh daily and uh the putting this verse from James there on your notepad, what can you give us um maybe some an example specifically earlier in your career, what were some of the key parts of your daily routine that helped you to become so successful?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, uh I've always had a practice uh uh uh you know of daily prayer time and daily Bible reading time first thing in in your day. Uh I think like most many people, uh when you work hard all day, you're tired at the end of the day. And if you uh decide that you're gonna do your prayer time and your Bible study time at the end of the day, uh I think in many cases you're too tired to do that and you don't do it. And so my discipline uh throughout my career has been to do, you know, my prayer and my Bible study uh at the beginning of the day. It means you get up early, and that's good too, because everything's quiet, uh, and you can have that private time uh with just you and God. And I just think that's a critically important uh, you know, first of all, you're you're sharing, uh you're you're seeking guidance, uh uh and asking for help. Uh, you know, it's just a special quiet time uh to get your day kind of started in the right direction. And you know, there are all kinds of verses in the Bible that can give you confidence, uh, you know, Philippians 4, 6, and 7. If you've got a hard board meeting coming up, you know, be not anxious, you know, but let your request be known to God. I mean, there's so many verses that I think can calm your heart and give you guidance and direction, you know, if you look at it at the beginning of the day.
SPEAKER_02Wow, that's so good. And uh one of the things for our listeners is the the question was what are the what's some of the key parts of your daily routine that helped you to become so successful? So you know, not not only are you going to have uh is it is it going to be affecting your spiritual life, but your professional life as well. And and there's just so much that carries over from having your heart centered starting from the beginning of the day uh that you've been able to bring into your uh all of the tough decisions that you've had to make and all of the adversity that you've been through. Um another question I had was what's something, and this may be related, what's something about being the CEO of a massively publicly uh massive publicly traded company that you think would probably surprise most people?
SPEAKER_00Well, uh you know, most CEOs, you know, they're just they're just people. Uh, you know, th they've in many cases have been blessed with uh perhaps uh certain attributes uh that uh that others have not been blessed with, which allows them maybe to advance higher in their careers. Uh the but the one thing probably that the average person is not aware of uh is that um there are many, many uh Christian CEOs uh in the United States and globally, and that seems to be a surprise to a lot of people. But I was one of the early members in a in a group called the CEO Forum, which was headquartered uh in Colorado Springs, and it was a group of 400 uh Christian CEOs in North America, and then we had another 400 globally, uh, and we would you know we would try to to meet a couple of times a year uh in seminars and and but also on the phone uh and sharing uh issues uh with each other and so that you know if you're a CEO in Houston and you've got a certain problem that you maybe you just don't want to talk to your immediate subordinates about or your board, you'd rather talk to some other CEO to see how they handle that particular issue. You know, you could pick up the phone and call that person, maybe he was in Denver or maybe he was in New York City and listen to how he or she solved a particular issue. Especially a lot of the sensitive, socially correct issues uh uh uh you know, always surrounding corporate America. Uh, you know, how did you handle it and get advice? And probably most people don't realize that, you know, the you know, w the most CEOs I think are totally honest, and I think a lot of the general public probably doesn't believe that because of the uh the decisions and the faults and the you know things that's a few people do that you know that's in the press because they of who they are uh and the disappointments in their personal life that's in the front page of a newspaper, which is very disappointing. But the vast majority of CEOs are very hard-working, honest people.
SPEAKER_02I love that. You know, and there's so many great organizations. Well, I wouldn't say so many, but there are several that are doing such a great job. You know, CEO Forum, uh C12 is one. And I I think it's easy at at whatever level of the of your company you're at to kind of get this complex where you feel like you're the only one that's trying to serve God. When and Paul, I remember when I was in the military, I was kind of feeling like there was a lack of of other Christians. I was brand new to the military, second lieutenant, and uh and then the Lord showed me it when Paul came into Corinth that he had that same complex. And the Lord said, Don't be afraid, for I have many in this place, uh many in this city. And the Lord said that to me about the military. And it's funny, I started to meet a lot of other Christian officers though that I was able to uh start to find encouragement from and just do life with. And and I I think that's a great insight that a lot of people just don't don't realize that there's so many Christian CEOs out there. Um I love that.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely absolutely, and also in the military, you know, one of my probably my best board member I had uh on Conoco and Coneco Phillips was uh General Chuck Krullak, uh four-star general, commandant of the Marine Corps. I mean, you know, the Marine Corps has and I was in the Marine Corps, of course that's why I wanted him on our board, but you know, the Marine Corps has a reputation, you know, what kind of a reputation will you have? A hard driving, high, you know, drinking, whatever, hell-raising group of of people. Uh but Chuck is one of the strongest Christians, you know, I've ever met. And uh a lot of people wouldn't have wouldn't have known that, you know. Uh so There are strong Christians, I think, in whatever profession uh that you're in, you just have to seek them out.
SPEAKER_02I love that. Archie, what was the worst, what would you say was the worst moment of your leadership career?
SPEAKER_00You know, I don't think I had any any any any worst moments. Um, you know, I had some disappointments. Uh most of the disappointments, uh, you know, when I look back on them, you know, it's not a real big deal. Uh, but you know, there was an acquisition that I tried to make uh before we did uh the merger with Phillips, uh trying to buy some uh some assets uh outside of the United States. Uh I thought they would be a good fit with Conoco, and uh, you know, I just my bid wasn't high enough, and so I l I lost that uh acquisition opportunity. Uh earlier earlier in my career I was trying to uh combine uh with a pipeline two refineries in the western United States, and I thought if I could put the two together uh that the the changes in the process that that would allow would make uh the Conoco refinery more profitable, which means we could keep it in operation, you know, and not have to sell it or or do something else with it. And and I was not able to get that accomplished because the other company ended up selling themselves to someone else before we could consummate the deal. So, you know, those weren't worst moments, and they had absolutely looking back on it, no negative impact on probably me or the company. But at the time they were a little disappointments.
SPEAKER_02I think that's that's really uh a mindset that you have that because I'm sure if you were to put somebody else that's uh you know, like a uh it's just kind of a negative outlook on life that they could probably put themselves in your uh what you've been through and say, oh yeah, that was the worst or this was the worst. But the fact that you it's like, yeah, there are disappointments, but you never know what good what good God is gonna bring from those disappointments. And just you know, having heard stories about how uh in fact if you could share also that story of uh there was a time where you were about to take a job um and then you declined the offer, and then God turned around and showed you why he had you stay in the in the previous position you were in.
SPEAKER_00Uh yes, that was uh Linda and I were living uh in California. Uh I was an executive vice president of a of kind of a baby oil company, a two billion dollar conical subsidiary. This was in um the late 19 uh 70s, and uh it was a great job. I mean, we lived in San Clemente, California. We looked out at the ocean, uh the kids were in school there and happy, and I had a fantastic job in Newport Beach, and uh I'd been in the job about probably two years, and my secretary comes in the office one morning and says, uh, Archie, the president of Coneco is on the phone and wants to talk to you. And you know, I I had a good mid-level job at that point, but you know, I was not accustomed to talking to the president of the company, you know, on a uh on a daily basis or a monthly basis. And so I was a little surprised. But anyway, I picked up the phone and he was, you know, he said, Archie, we have this great opportunity uh uh that we want you to consider uh doing. He said, We bought this acreage out on Interstate 10 in Houston, and Conaco wants to build the first college campus corporate headquarters, and we want you to come and be the project manager, and it'll be a big promotion, a big salary increase, and uh we think you're the guy to do the job, and so why don't you and Linda think about this and you know and give me a call in a week. So at that time Linda and I were uh teaching young adults, and uh there were a lot of m young lieutenants from the Marine Corps at Camp Pendelin, which was just south of of St. Clemente, and and other young professionals from Orange County and our Bible class at church, and we were studying it in the book of Galatians at the time, and so I started praying about, you know, is this something that you want me to do, God, or you want me to stay in California? And and I prayed, I think it's a week or ten days, and and the more I read, there was a a book chapter in in Galatians that that basically to me, to my heart, because I was studying and seeking God's direction, uh, it it essentially said you should stay here. And so, you know, uh we talked about it, and so I said, Okay, you know, Linda, we're just gonna stay here. So I called the president back, and he was very, very gracious and said, No problem, you know, you'll have other opportunities. And um so I hung up the phone and it wasn't fifteen minutes, and uh uh an executive vice president, a vice president in Houston both called and said, You've lost your mind. You don't tell the president of the company you're not gonna take a promotion. And we've talked to to Mike and he he he agreed that he will give you another opportunity to think about this, and and you call him back in a week and you tell him you're gonna take this job. So, you know, that's a lot of pressure, uh, because these were mentors uh of mine in Houston that really had guided my career, and but I started praying about it and uh and I I even became more convinced that I should stay in California. And so I called him back and and declined the job. He was very gracious, and and then probably less than two months uh I was promoted to the presidency of the of this West Coast subsidiary, and that was probably the second best job of my career other than being chairman, president, and CEO CONECO. Uh and that was and then twenty-five years later, uh Linda and I uh were invited by General Krack, the Commandant of the Marine Corps, to come to Washington, D.C., spend the weekend in their home uh at 8th and I Street. Every Friday night they have a parade where they honor whoever the visiting head of state is that's visiting the president. They have a nice, beautiful uh parade uh there at the Commandant's lawn with uh the Marine Corps band and the drill team and you know, thousands of guests and tourists that are there witnessing the parade. And uh after the parade, uh this young major walked up to me and he said, My commanding officer would like to speak with you. Would you mind going to his quarters? I said, Sure, I'd be glad to. And so I went back with the major to to where his commanding officer was, and and this uh bird colonel walks out and uh he reaches into the pocket of his of his uniform and he pulls out a little Bible, and in the Bible was a a poorly typed piece of paper that my wife had typed twenty-five years previous with the names of all of our class members, and and he said, You don't remember this, Mr. Denham. He said, But I came to your home, my wife and I, one night, and you counseled us, you and your wife, uh, about seeking God's will and should we stay in the Marine Corps, should we get out? He said, I just want you to know, you know, that we decided to stay in the Marine Corps, and today I'm the commanding officer of the Marine Detachment that's responsible for protecting the President of the United States in the White House.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_00You know, and I I thought to myself, you know, that's why God said stay in California. You know, and I I you know twenty-five years later, and that's how God works, yeah. You know, you you you don't know, you know, he knows what's happening, uh, we don't know what's happening, he knows what prayer to answer in a certain way, we don't he knows our steps well before we take 'em.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And to be able to look back on uh guidance from the Lord and and know that i i even if it was just for one the sake of one person, uh it was uh it was worth it. And I think that's a way that God works in in the process, you know, he's blessed you just so tremendously from that from that decision to honor him, even when well-meaning, wise people are aiming to do uh something else, you know, ultimately you have to go to the go to the Lord uh for yourself. And um and that's exactly what you did. So we talked uh I asked you about your worst uh worst moment, and you say you didn't have any worst moments, but you had a few disappointments. Um as you look back over your professional career, what moment are you most proud of, would you say?
SPEAKER_00Well, I I think you mentioned it, I think, in the introduction, but it would be the uh you know the largest uh initial public offering in U.S. history back in 1998 when we separated uh Coneco from DuPont. Conoco was established in 1875, but then we were acquired by DuPont in 1982, uh, you know, over a hundred years later, and then we were part of DuPont then until 1998, and then we separated again. And I was able to convince, I was on the DuPont board, of course, being president of Coneco and CEO of Conoco, and uh I was able to persuade the board that uh that the shareholders uh of DuPont would uh it it would be to their great advantage uh if if they had shares of an oil company separate from the shares of a chemical company, and then they would get a high price earnings ratio in both sectors instead of a mediocre price earnings ratio of a hybrid kind of a company. And uh so I w I was able to show that argument to the board and they approved the separation, and uh and it was turned out to be exactly correct that the shareholders it was really advantageous financially for the shareholders uh to be able to have energy shares as well as chemical shares, and and and it was was the largest IPO in U.S. history. So that was that has to be has to be the high mark, I think, of my corporate career. Sure.
SPEAKER_02And if I remember correctly, that m the morning that you were to go ring the bell at at the New York Stock Exchange, you were speaking at a prayer breakfast in Delaware, is that right?
SPEAKER_00That's right, Lynn. I mean, we had I had committed to do the uh uh prayer breakfast uh you know months and months in advance, and it just happened to turn out to be uh the day uh that our stock was gonna be posted on the New York Stock Exchange again, and so I had to make the decision am I gonna I'm gonna honor my commitment to do the prayer breakfast for uh for this for the state of Delaware, uh, or am I gonna cancel out and go to the New York Stock Exchange? Well, as it turns out, I was able to do both. So the company had a helicopter setting there at the airport in Wilmington, and uh so I I made the presentation to the prayer breakfast, and Linda and I jumped in a car and raced to the helicopter, and they flew us uh from Wilmington, Delaware to uh uh the pier there uh in New York City uh near Wall Street and rushed us there in time to ring the bell that morning in the York Stock Exchange, which was a really uplifting uh experience.
SPEAKER_02Wow, what a day and what a career, what a what a wonderful life committed to the Lord. Archie, what uh would be a parting piece of advice you'd like to leave with our Christian business professionals today?
SPEAKER_00I I guess really uh three things. Um one would be uh integrity. Uh I I really so strongly believe that regardless of what level you uh in corporate America or in private business or in a nonprofit, whatever you're doing in life, you you need to be a man or a woman of integrity, absolute integrity. And you have to make that decision, I think, early in your in your adult life. Uh you're either going to be a man or person of integrity or not, and there's no halfway point. Uh so that's very important. And I think if you just look at what's happened in in the media, in Hollywood, and in in government, all these men uh, you know, that have been uh have been shamed by their conduct because of a lack of integrity, uh, you can see the consequences of a life not uh storied in in integrity. And the second thing would be perseverance. Uh I I uh you know, m my parents I think instilled in me a strong work ethic. Uh I believe that that's absolutely critically important for all young professionals. I mean, you've got to work hard, you've got to work long. Uh I I used to tell myself I've got to outwork my peers because I'm not necessarily smarter than they are. We're all equally pretty intelligent. And so the only way I can differentiate uh is to work harder and and persevere and stay with it and don't be discouraged, don't be disappointed, keep going forward. And then the last thing is wisdom, and that's why uh, you know, as we've talked about reading God's Word, uh it's full of wisdom. And uh why wouldn't you want to take advantage of that? And uh and so you know, integrity, perseverance, wisdom, I think are critical attributes for everyone, whether they aspire to be a CEO or they're happy to get some mid-level position or whatever in life they're doing. Uh those three attributes are important, I think, for holding the family together and having, you know, a happy marriage and a successful uh career.
SPEAKER_02Powerful advice. Archie, thank you so much for sharing your time and your experiences, your expertise, and your your heart and passion with us today. And and certainly thank you for your commitment to HBU and to a God's team just for example.