Welcome back to the Theology of Business podcast. I'm your host, Darren Sheer, author of the Marketplace Christian and Marketing Like Jesus. And this is a show that helps marketplace Christians to partner God in business to help you make disciples of your coworkers, your company, and your industry. Give more teachings and interviews like the one you're about to hear at theologyofbusiness.com. On today's episode, we're joined by Henry Kasner, and we'll be discussing investing in faith-driven companies. And I've been looking for a guest like Henry for a while and was finally referred to Henry. He's just the right guy to talk about this. Actually, referred by uh Dr. John Mulford. Henry, who was a previous guest on the show. Henry. Oh, yeah, he's he's incredible. Love what they're doing through the Regent Center for Entrepreneurship. And uh Henry is a managing principal at Sovereigns Capital LLC, which is a private equity fund helping faith-driven entrepreneurs building great businesses and both consumer and business software as a service, tech-enabled consumer goods and services, and healthcare technology. And not only in the US, but also in Southeast Asia. And uh it seems a lot of that's happening in Indonesia, is that right?
SPEAKER_02That's right. That's right. A good amount of our investment happens in both Singapore and Indonesia. About a about a third of our investments are there.
SPEAKER_01Okay. And and to date, and this may be a little bit outdated, you've invested in 34 companies. Is that right?
SPEAKER_02No, so just slightly out of date. It's uh 36 companies now.
SPEAKER_0136, okay. And he's the co-founder and previous CEO and then chairman of bandwidth.com, a company that together with his business partner, David Mork, he has grown this company to $250 million in revenue. And the values of bandwidth.com have always been faith, family, work, and fitness in that order. And they were the fourth fastest growing privately held company in the country from 03 to 07. And welcome to the Theology of Business podcast, Henry.
SPEAKER_02There it is. Great to be with you. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for making time out for this. So, so how did you first of all make this discovery that God wanted to be involved in businesses of all places?
SPEAKER_02Well, I think that uh, you know, I I I from my perspective, I knew that God wanted to be involved in my life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And in all aspects of my life. And for me, as we started bandwidth together, uh, as I started together with David, we wanted to be really intentional about our culture. And so we knew that our culture needed to mirror who we wanted to be as individuals. And for both of us, faith was the most important thing. That was the most important thing in our lives. And we want to make sure that our business culture reflected that first, then faith, then family, then work, and then fitness, as you pointed out. And uh, I think that God wants to be involved in everything that we're doing. I think we have this incredible opportunity, gift, and blessing, if you will, to participate in the work that he's doing in the world. And uh that's why I think he cares about business, because I think he cares about us, and I think he cares about um, I think he cares about all aspects of society. But business is absolutely a big part of that. I think that we're created in the image of a creative God that works six days a week, and you know, we also hear from Scripture that his work continues to this day. So he owns all things, is in all things, and and we have an opportunity as Christ's followers to bring to the altar all of our gifts. And for me and for David and many others, of course, uh, those particular gifts are in business and thinking about things like intellectual property or growing a business. For others, it's the arts, and others it's sports. Um, but we see God in everything we do. So I think he cares about it all. But yes, absolutely business.
SPEAKER_01So so you made this discovery that God wanted to be involved in business, and then you took that to a number of different industries, but then then you started bandwidth.com. So in the earliest stages, what was the evidence that bandwidth.com was a Christian-led company as you were building it.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think that um I don't know about evidence so much as intentionality. Uh, I was a new follower of Christ as we started bandwidth. David was a lifelong believer. His grandfather was a uh was an evangelist in in uh Asia, terrific man. Um we wanted to have we wanted to have an intentionality about being able to bring all of ourselves to our work to include our faith. And that was the case from the from the absolute get-go. So I don't think that there's any point in time where we looked and said, wow, this is a Christian-led business. But there was a point in time in in both of our lives when we looked at each other and knew that we had a new identity and that the most important thing to us was knowing and enjoying God. And so um it was a Christian-led business from the very beginning. Um, but uh, you know, you mentioned something I think is important to point out. I don't think that there are there are Christian businesses, and that's not what you suggested. Um, there are Christian-led businesses. And so whenever anybody accepts the gift that's been given them, acknowledges that God created the world and and uh gave us this incredible gift of life and now and forever, through the death of his son to atone for our sins, whenever that happens, then we know that we're Christ follower. Then we're then uh we know that uh if we're competing in sports, we know that we're a Christ-following baseball player or we're a Christ-following violinist. Or in our case, we're Christ-following business guys. And so that was from the very beginning.
SPEAKER_01So you took that experience, and there were some needs that you saw that uh that Christian entrepreneurs have that are unique to uh maybe some some entrepreneurs that uh that's not really at the forefront or the center of their lives. So how and why did Sovereign's Capital begin?
SPEAKER_02Sovereign's Capital began uh is I'd like to think any good entrepreneurial project does by trying to trying to solve a problem. And the problem that we're trying to solve was that we knew there are lots of faith-driven entrepreneurs in the marketplace, people that are very serious about their faith. But we also knew that there wasn't a fund that was uh focused on coming alongside those entrepreneurs and investing in them, investing in them personally and then also financially. And a lot of that was born out of the experience we had early at Bandwidth. Um, you see, when David and I uh started the company, uh we went through a couple of years of pivots, as many entrepreneurs will do. We had we spent through some money that we had earned from some prior exits. But as we uh realized that we had a business to grow and that there was something that God was doing through it, we we thought that we should uh invest in and lots of growth. We went out as so many good entrepreneurs will do, up and down Sand Hill Road in Menlo Park and uh here in California and try to raise money. Um we would not talk about our faith on the first visit, typically, and we didn't have fish on our business cards, but we would uh during a second or third meeting talk about our culture and we'd tell them that we were doing a business uh for the glory of God, and we talk about you know the family part and we talk about the fitness part, but we'd make it really clear that that um we were serious about honoring God in the workplace. I'd like to think we did that winsomely. Uh uh if you were to interview some of the VCs, maybe they thought we were over the over the top. Hopefully we weren't. Hopefully we did it as uh we're told to do it with gentleness and respect and in a relationship. But we uh and we also took great pains to say, listen, you know, we want to hire the very best person for the job. This is not meant to be a holy huddle. This is meant to be a business that will compete and win. But you may notice that when we do board meetings, we'll do things like pray. And we'll pray in Jesus' name and just want to make sure you're comfortable with that. Well, we went over 40 in venture races. Uh, and I think really in a best case scenario, uh, we were misunderstood a bit as we talked about that. And I think in a in a worst case scenario, I think we may have been prejudiced against. Now, to be clear, uh, there are other reasons to not invest in our business, other legitimate business reasons to not invest in our business. So I don't want to present uh a uh a story that makes it look like there is this widespread persecution that David and I had to endure because of our faith. I don't think that's the case, but I tell you one thing it did give us an impression of, which is that venture capital and institutional investors don't really know what to make of a faith-driven entrepreneur completely. And um and that left an impression on us. So we came to understand um as bandwidth continued to succeed, that of course, faith-driven businesses that are intentional about honoring God in the workplace can do very well. And two, our hypothesis was that uh institutional investors didn't really know what to make of that, and uh it may cause more questions for them than answers. And so, what would it look like to have a fund uh that believes that transformation happens in the marketplace and believes that when you come alongside a young entrepreneur to encourage them in the pursuit of God and what it looks like to hunt a guy in the workplace, that really neat things can happen in culture and society. And also believing that um as they uh work out their faith in the business environment and try to understand what does it look like to love on partners and vendors and customers and employees in a way that points to something greater than the manufacturing and distribution of widgets, um, that that could be uh a really powerful force to take hold of. So we um we started sovereigns to come alongside those folks, um to do life with these 36 entrepreneurs that we've invested in, to encourage them. And to be clear, 90% of what we talk to them about are things like intellectual property and channels to market and capitalization and comp plans and things like that. But we take pains twice a year to make sure that we're talking to them about the things we can be praying for them about, and then to sit down and go through an intentional spiritual integration plan where we talk about things like how are you doing in your in your walk with the Lord? Um, are you spending time in a small group? Uh are you a member of a local worshiping community? Are you a member of local church? How do you kind how do you think about the biblical message of generosity? Uh things like that. So our we saw the the the shorter answer to your question is as any entrepreneur will do, we saw a need and an opportunity in the marketplace uh that we could fit, and through the grace of God, it's worked out really well.
SPEAKER_01Going back to some of those conversations with some of those VCs when you were raising funds, um was there some statements that stood out or some encounters that stood out where they were just maybe voicing some of their concerns specifically about the faith component, or did they just kind of uh cloak it in, you know, we're just not sure about all that. Uh they think maybe you're like uh like a humanitarian organization or something like that. I mean, what what were some of their concerns that were expressed?
SPEAKER_02Well, only once did it come back through secondhand that an investor was concerned about um our faith and whether we can make sound business decisions, whether Christfollars can make sound business decisions, whether they know how to fire somebody and let people go, whether they uh really view their work as something that's nine to five, and that real job begins when they they leave work at five o'clock and volunteer at a local ministry. And so we heard that once. Um, and I don't want to overstate again the fact that we felt any type of persecution. I just think that we were really just just misunderstood. People just didn't understand how we view that as such a powerful thing about who we were and who we are, um, and saw that as something that was really this driving force that as we sought to bring God glory in the marketplace, that we saw it as our greatest advantage. And we never said it that way. I mean, we when we put together a PowerPoint and set in front of a venture capitalist, we never said our secret sauce is the Holy Spirit or anything like that. But um, we came to understand that you know we wanted to be able to bring on board a partner that got what made us tick. And and everybody, every leader has a why of what they do. And there's some great research from Christensen and Cinec and Jim Collins and others that talks about the why of what you do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And um, we wanted to find an investor that got why we did what we did. And I think, in fairness to the investors, I think that they wanted to invest in a company where they could identify with their why. And so they had lots of other entrepreneurs that would be able to present to them different opportunities on businesses where they could really understand what drove an entrepreneur. And they wanted to invest in something they felt comfortable in and that they knew, and they didn't know us. And I think that it created a I think that that created a uh a barrier. And in retrospect, of course, I'm I'm very, very grateful that we didn't go one for 40. Uh, it gave us an opportunity to be able to um have complete ownership of the company through to taking bandwidth public. And um, while we did bring on some board some other friends and family investors and gave uh a lot of money in terms of stock options to others, Dave and I were able to control the business and uh control the culture in a way that I'm grateful for. And we had, through the grace of God, lots and lots of growth uh between both bandwidth and Republic Wireless, which is a company we spun out of bandwidth.
SPEAKER_01And you really didn't have institutional funding when you were the fourth fastest growing privately held company, right? From 03 to 07.
SPEAKER_02That's right. That's right. So we were we were able to grow really, really quickly.
SPEAKER_01But you were still trying, you were still actively pursuing the funds, you just weren't getting them, but nonetheless, you were still growing the company, is that right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we never took in any growth capital at all. Never took in any money to grow the business. We did take money in from an institutional investor about uh 10 or 12 years in to help us make a real strategic acquisition. And a great investor uh came in and helped us and then very much understood our culture. Now uh we were well established by then, um, but we brought on board a great investor to help us do that. But we never raised raised any money for growth capital. And uh so God was very gracious to us. We were able to grow very quickly and we were able to do it without outside capital.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha. And so you didn't even start pursuing the funding until about 07.
SPEAKER_02Uh no, no, we started we were pursuing funding as early as uh 01, 02. Okay. Uh we just we were very in unsuccessful. And then four or five years into it, uh, we went back in again and got very, very close with the private equity shop to taking a $20 million investment, and then that just that uh that failed. So we never were successful in a growth capital raise. Um and we tried it for five, six, maybe seven years. Um, most of that though was about two years into it. So the end of 01 and 02.
SPEAKER_01And do you feel like in retrospect that that God really spared you from getting yoked with the wrong investors, you know, because in business, there you're really entering a covenant when you're taking on funding like that, uh, where there's going to be certain expectations on both sides. Um, and when the person or the company doesn't have your value system, then that can it's like Paul talks about being unequally yoked, right? Is that the way that you tend to look at it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I uh I do think that God spared us that. I think that I don't spend a lot of time reflecting on that part of it. What I do spend time reflecting on is really the difference between being willful and faithful. And too oftentimes in my work life, even of course after being a Christ fellow, I found that a lot of my activities have been willful. And there's some great Bible examples on this. And my partner David uh uh has some great commentary about just different bits different biblical leaders that you see that end up being willful at different times in leadership. You know, Saul was willful at times, he didn't wait on Saul. Uh David, you can be willful in uh in activity, you can be willful in inactivity. You know, David, when all the kings were gone off the war, David stayed behind. We were being willful when we tried to, and not faithful. We were praying that we'd walk out of a meeting with a $20 million term sheet. We weren't praying that God's will would be done. And so I think that the big lesson that God taught me on that is that it's really important to be faithful, to seek God first and his plan for your business. Um, and yeah, to is there an extent that he saved us from our being unequally yoked? Yes, I think that there is. Absolutely. And I think that it is important. You know, for a long time, young entrepreneurs would come to me and say, you know, should I uh I'm considering going into business. Uh I want to do it with a partner, which we love. We love the idea of partnerships. Most of the companies we invest in have a partnership. And they said, you know, we'd love to do that, but uh, can I uh, you know, this guy I know from business school or something like that is not a believer, can I start the business with him? And I uh historically it said yes. But uh as I came to understand, uh, you know, I was convicted in my uh my time in scripture coming across the passage about being unequal yoke. Like, oh my goodness, of course you can't. You can't. You spend more time with your work partner than you do oftentimes with your wife. And you need to really be able to have, if you want to be intentional about bringing guide glory in the marketplace, you need to have your business partner as aligned uh as you are on that. So I I I think I I strongly encourage people now not to um uh start a business along somebody who doesn't get and resonate with the why they do what they do. And that I think is important for Christ's followers. I think it's important for any type of business that's run by any type of faith, you ultimately need to be able to resonate and be partners in the deepest part of what makes somebody tick. And you need to be able to identify with that so that when things get really, really hard, you can kind of go back to first orders and say, What are we trying to do here again? And and who to whom do we go to to look for our solace and our inspiration? And if you can't get, you know, have somebody who gets who you are and be willing to get down on their knees with you and pray to this Almighty God that he might give you favor and deliverance, you're stuck. And you know, there are times in an entrepreneurial journey is dark and is hard and it's long. And if you can't, you know, do that journey with somebody who um also understands Psalm 23, you're in trouble.
SPEAKER_01And is I mean, there really if you're an entrepreneur aside from Sovereign's capital, there really aren't that many places for people to turn who are looking for uh venture funding that also want to make sure that the firm has a shared value system with them. So, what what do you say to entrepreneurs that are pursuing funding? I mean, you guys are there's a lot more startups out there that are getting funded than than the you know, the 36, which is obviously a lot for a VC firm of any, you know, of any kind, but there's so many more companies, and many of those are Christian uh founders. What do you say to Christian entrepreneurs that are um that are pursuing funding? And how important is it to have a and have investors that uh and not just take the money and take the good kind of worldly advice, but to also make sure that you have that faith in common.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes. So um here's the way I think about it uh to be very clear, I think that it's important that if you have a partner in the business, it's very, very important that you are equally yoked with them. Very, very important. Um, I do not feel the same way about having an investor. And you would think that uh being a fund that invests in faith-driven entrepreneurs, that I would have more strong opinions on that, but I don't. I think that any business man or woman that are out there, an entrepreneur seeking funding, um, has an opportunity to bring God honor and glory in the marketplace uh with an intentionality, whether they have a faith-driven uh fund faith-driven funders behind them or not. Um and I think that um it may be preferable for some people to have an investor that's strapped to the mess with them and on a board with them that gets what they do. But I wouldn't so say, I absolutely wouldn't use my position to tell uh an entrepreneur that that's something that they absolutely have to seek out because candidly there just aren't enough funds and investors out there that do that. But what I would say is this I would say that it is really important that anybody that you take money from that's gonna have a role in the business in terms of being an advisor or any way uh really having skin in the game and I use the metaphor strapped to the mask, but it's just people that are really in it with you. I think it's really important that they understand why you do what you do. And uh I think you need to talk about that up front. And I don't think that you I don't think that the first meeting is oftentimes the right place to to talk about that. I think that investors come in to try to understand a business opportunity and understand whether the business opportunity, but as they come to know you, it's really important. And I think that um it's uh it would be difficult to be able to have conversations like, uh I think we need to hire a corporate chaplain or something along those lines, if your investors uh uh don't know again what your intentionality is. Um and that's a common mistake I see. I see a lot of entrepreneurs out there who don't have the don't feel comfortable in praying with non believing employees, or don't feel comfortable in the concept of chaplaincy. And those are two of the most common mistakes I see startups make. And um and there are mistakes that we made at bandwidth. You know, it took me seven or eight years. Now everybody knew why we did what we did at bandwidth. Everybody knew that Dave and I were motivated by our Christian faith. But it took me seven or eight years to be able to pray with non-believing employees. And I should have done that day one because it's universally thought as being uh somebody showing love for somebody that you're in a relationship with. I've never had anybody offended by that. And then chaplaincy, chaplaincy is really important. You know, all the major sports teams have chaplains, and most of the major sports teams are owned by secular owners. Why do they have chaplains? They want to get the best performance out of their employees. And so I think it's really important that an entrepreneur is able to talk to an investor about what makes them tick and what their driving forces are, so that when a decision is made a couple years down the road to hire a corporate chaplain, um, the investor sees that it's completely consistent with what the entrepreneur is looking to do. I think it also is important to talk to an investor about what does it mean and what doesn't it mean to uh work your faith out in the workplace. Uh I think that um in a uh conversation should likely have to do uh include things like how you think about firing people, how you think about loving people well as you let them go. I think it should probably include things like what does it look like for us to hire people who don't have our faith background or who don't uh who have different social aspects of their lives that maybe would not align with how we think that God created things. At bandwidth, we always hire the best person for the job. But if we don't have that type of conversation with an investor, um then they're left to kind of think uh an extremist view. So uh boy, that's a long-winded way of saying I think it is completely fine to take on board non-believing investors. I think it's preferable to bring somebody on board strapped in a mask that gets what makes you tick and that can go ahead and pray with you when you go through difficult times. And that's why it's absolutely essential that your full-time partner gets that. It's just preferable that your investor is that way. And many businesses can be very God-honoring with secular investor uh investors coming in or people that don't have a faith. But it's important that they have a good conversation about culture and what makes the leader tick. And that and and the entrepreneurs gotta be willing to have somebody walk away from making an investor because they just don't get they just don't get it. Um uh yeah, I'll stop there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it's one of those, like Paul said, it's one of those things that's uh permissible to take on an investor like that, but not always profitable uh from God's standpoint. But there but there's certainly are they just not enough, I think. Because as I said at the beginning of this interview, I've really searched for a long time to find somebody like yourself to interview on this topic, and uh there just weren't a whole lot of uh um people, there weren't a whole lot of organizations like what you guys are doing. Um so we certainly need need more of that. Uh but that's great advice for those uh for those young entrepreneurs and and anyone who is is considering becoming uh going after venture funding. Um so you mentioned the uh the the chaplaincy conversation, you mentioned the uh the how do you fire somebody as a Christian? How do you uh how do you how do you do some of these different things? People don't always do they always come to you like that, or do you find yourself in really a disciple-making role with your portfolio company founders to help them understand how to follow God's plan in these different aspects of their business?
SPEAKER_02Well, I spent a lot of time talking about um the different mistakes we made at bandwidth in in terms of hiring and firing people. I think that one of the we try to I've got a talk I give, which is the I guess the 20 lessons that God taught us at bandwidth. And and in each one of them is is uh each one of the lessons is uh couched in scripture. And the um in the passage, of course, that I use for firing somebody is uh uh love your neighbor as yourself. And so um if you uh fire somebody and they're surprised, you haven't loved them. Uh one of the most important things you can ever do for your organization is make sure that you have the right people on the bus with you. And I think a lot of people miss this. That a lot of people miss really what is important about what a leader does. A leader is supposed to set the strategy uh in and mission, they're supposed to make sure that there's resources and then get the right people on the bus. And a lot of times, I mention that because a lot of times entrepreneurs get distracted by doing other things. Uh they're busy selling or they're busy doing something else. If you're you really need to just be doing those three things. Otherwise, you're supposed to get people on a bus to do those things. That also means, of course, getting people off of the bus that aren't the right people on the bus. Um, and for us, we've had lots and lots of people over the years that have we've had to let go. And of course, in our portfolio companies, there are lots of people that need to be let go. And it's really important to be able to love them well by helping them to understand that the that it's just not a good fit at the company. But uh what is really important is make sure that they're never surprised. So uh what we do is we counsel our companies to make sure that they sit down with their employees that they think are not performing and to let them uh know that and then give them opportunity to cure. And so uh if a salesperson is not performing, say, listen, things aren't going well, you're not doing as well in the job as we'd hoped, and um, you've got uh 45 days to be able to get back to what our expectations are for you. And if not, then we're gonna have to talk about whether this is the right long-term fit for you. Um and then it happens, it's easy with salespeople because there's a quota, but it's you know, it's it happens in product, it happens in engineering. And uh having ongoing communications with communication with people is really important to having a healthy relationship. And so um if you've hired somebody again, I'll say it again. If you hire some fire somebody and they're surprised, you failed. You haven't loved them well, but you have to get the right, the wrong people off the bus. And that's oftentimes the best way to love on the people that have that stick around. Can't tell you how many times people have come to me from a group and saying, thank you for letting that person go. It just wasn't the right fit and it was holding our work, our team prior, our teamwork back. And then also on rare occasion, you get the person who you've let go who comes back to you and says, Listen, I want to thank you for the way that you let me go. Let me know. And now I want you to know I've got you know something else that's great, and and I'm I'm doing well. But you treated me really well while I was there, right up until the time that you let me go. That doesn't always happen. You wish it happened every time, but it does happen enough to help reinforce how important it is that we uh love on the people we're letting go well.
SPEAKER_01Well said, and one of the many areas of of discipleship opportunity that you have uh with your with your portfolio company founders, and certainly for those founders then to to go and share Christ with their own, the people in their own companies. So, Henry, as we wrap it up here, uh I'm curious, and I know that there's at least one entrepreneur that's listening to this uh who is thinking about approaching your company, Henry, and they want us they want to find out if um if maybe their company is they if they have what it takes to become one of your portfolio companies, what would you say uh to somebody that is uh what what who are you looking for? What are the types of um businesses, founders that you're looking for?
SPEAKER_02It's a great question. And the the sad answer to this is that um we end up being really limited with the types of companies we invest in because uh we like investing in things we know well. So we invest in uh software as a service and consumer goods and services, and then also in healthcare. Um and we tend to invest in companies that have uh real traction. They already are set up and going and they have product market fit. We love companies that have shown that they can delight customers. And a way for us to look at that a lot of times is just to really understand things like churn by cohort, you know, looking at the different slices of groups of customers you brought on board, uh what it costs to bring them on board, and how many of them have stuck with you over time. Uh and we look at that and see how that's trended. And so as a result of that, we we have to say no to a lot of companies that are really early, uh, even though they have great ideas and even though they're run by great people, um, because it's just one of the things we look at. And then there are a ton of regions that we don't invest in. Uh, there are a whole bunch of industries we don't invest in. And then um, but it has to be a fit with somebody that we can see uh who is really driven and intentional about their uh their their faith. Really important that they're really driven about their faith. They want to bring God glory in the marketplace. That's really important. We also need to make sure that it's a the type of person that we can see um shepherding the company and executing. We look a lot at the person, uh, but we end up saying no to a lot of great people at the same time. Uh, you know, the worst part of my job by far is having to say no to 99 out of 100 people that come in looking for funding. And uh that's really frustrating. It's frustrating, especially for me. One of the reasons we started this up is we wanted to be a net encouragement to faith-driven entrepreneurs, and yet we're a net discouragement to a great number of them. And so we're actually starting an initiative this year called the Faith Driven Entrepreneur. And we've got a uh placeholder on a website called faithdrivenentpreneur.org, but we're gonna come out with just a bi-weekly newsletter, just about things that we're seeing, about way guide is working through companies and some of the lessons we've learned along the way, with a hope that we might be able to be an encouragement to some of them, just like I think you're being with this podcast. Um, so uh with this person, we'd love to talk to them. Um and and hopefully there is a fit. You know, the most important thing about a venture capital fund is deal flow. You're only as good as the deals that you get a chance to invest in, which means you're only as good as the deals you get a chance to look at. So thanks for thinking of us uh with that and love to talk to them. And hopefully, some way, either by uh our time we spend with them at Sovereigns or through some of the things hopefully we can serve them with in the faith of an entrepreneur, we might be some net encouragement to them in what God is doing through their life.
SPEAKER_01That sounds like a great initiative. I did check out that website. When is that going to be launching?
SPEAKER_02February 1. Oh, okay. Really excited about it. And love your love to get your feedback and your input. And and uh, as with anything I've ever done in life, the first iteration or second iteration have not been great, but I've decided to do it anyway. And then uh and with time things get better and better. And so uh Darren, I'd love your I'd love your feedback. I'd love the feedback from any of your the the folks that that follow you and your podcast. And the other thing I'd love to do is as we uh launch that, as you see different podcast episodes or different work that you've done that you think is really um exemplary and and uh good encouragement to a wider audience. I'm I'd I'd hope that you'd send those so that we've got a group of guys that are going through content and helping us come up with things that we're gonna release uh in the newsletter. And so I'd I'd love to be able to hear more from your podcast and the work that you're doing and and uh and uh in Texas and beyond.
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm happy to share it. Henry, I want to be respectful of your time. Thank you so much for uh the work that you're doing and the passion that you're bringing to making disciples in the workplace and and uh just bringing God glory uh through the business world. And uh may God continue to bless all of your companies, all of your everything you put your mind to, your family, and thanks again for your time.
SPEAKER_02Darren, it was a great honor and privilege. And so I ask the same for you and blessings on your work and your ministry and your expanding family, and then also for your listeners, that they'll find God's pleasure in work as they get out there and create and are a winsome witness to uh this Almighty God who loves us all. So thank you.
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