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SPEAKER_01On today's episode, we're joined by Kasty Seast. Kasty is the founder and CEO of Lucid Books. And interestingly, he's also a lead pastor at the same time. He's lead pastor of Christ Community Church of Magnolia in Magnolia, Texas, which is in the Houston metro area. And he's also the author of Tragedy to Truth, a story of faith and transformation. Welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast, Casey.
SPEAKER_02Thanks so much. Glad to be here. Honor to be a part of this.
SPEAKER_01So let's let's back up. I mean, you're obviously a very multifaceted uh human being, uh, and and you've got just an unbelievable story uh going back into your teenage years. Tell us about what you describe as your crash course on Jesus.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, thanks for asking about that. You know, that was the article in uh Christianity today, and just to let everybody know, the uh the title was an editorial choice they made. Um, you know, I wrote a book called Tragedy to Truth. And when I was 17 years old, I was in a car crash uh that resulted in the death of a friend of mine. And um, I had been drinking that night, and uh I was not yet a follower of Jesus. I had gone to church on and off, but I never trusted in Christ, never hoped in Christ, never followed Jesus. And so up to that point of the crash, I uh struggled on and off with anxiety and depression. Later found out when I was 22 years old uh that I had uh attention deficit disorder and um and then dyslexia as well. And uh so that kind of brought some meaning and understanding behind some of the struggles I had. Uh, but yeah, I went to church on and off, but never really, you know, placed any hope in Christ. And so after that crash, uh began a process and a journey of um of determining, you know, who is God, who am I, and and who is Jesus. And my mom had bought me a New Testament, or actually she bought me a student Bible, and I started reading the New Testament, and I began to realize that that God is true, that Jesus is real, and that I'm in big trouble because of sin. And so uh the more I read the scriptures, the more I started listening to some preaching, the more I realized that there is a hope and a solution for someone as broken as me, and his name is Jesus. And so at the age of 17 in the spring of 1996, Jesus saved me. Um, and I know arguably from Ephesians 1 that he saved me from the foundations of the of the earth, but I I I uh I came to realize um the efficacious work of Christ, the effective work of Jesus in and on my life at that point. I wish I could say that everything was perfect after that, but I was still a jumbled mess. And um so I finished high school and I graduated. Four days later, I went to court to pled no contest to a fourth-degree state jail felony of negligent homicide. Uh, was placed on 200 hours of community service, um, had five years of probation, had a breathalyzer in my car, and I asked the judge, hey, can I and I didn't say hey. I wasn't like, hey, bro. I didn't talk to the judge that way, but I was like, Your Honor, can I speak to kids? Uh sharing my story and hope hopefully they'll they'll make better choices than I will. I did, and he said, Yes, let's do that. Um, but you can only do you can only get credit for 20 hours of speaking. The rest needs to be done in the literacy lab or wherever the probation office wants to put you to work. And so uh 17 years old, I started speaking to my peers, and as they say, the rest is sort of history. Uh, I became a youth minister in 2000 and started a nonprofit in 2001. At the time, I was I was hoping to be like Billy Graham, and uh, and so I started KC Cease Outreach. Uh, but then I realized, okay, I don't have the same anointing as Brother Billy. So uh in 2005, I changed the name of the nonprofit to Transform Ministries and started helping other people start nonprofits as well while continuing to speak. I did a season from about 2004 to 2007, speaking about 120 days a year on the road. Um, and then around 2007 started slowing down after we started a family. Um, been involved in church planting since 2002, planted a church on the launch team of Crossbridge Community Church in Sugarland, Texas. Um, and then we were sent from there to Brenham five years in 2007, and then uh three and a half years after that, they sent us out here to the woodlands area in North Houston to plant Christ Community Church of Magnolia. So um, you know, from the the brokenness of uh of of that night and and the culmination um of a lot of brokenness on that night in July 5th, 1995, to today, the Lord has blessed me in abundant ways uh through Jesus by giving me a beautiful wife for high school sweethearts. We have two beautiful daughters, um, and uh, you know, just the privilege of seeing the realities of Romans 8.28, you know, for God uses all things for good for those who love him, who are called according to his purpose. And uh it's been it's been a blessing to be able to see that and share that with other people.
SPEAKER_01Wow, what a powerful story of redemption. And and so in the midst of all of that, all of that spare time you had while you're planting churches and pastoring churches, um being facetious, obviously, for our listeners, um, you started a a publishing company. So how how did that come about?
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, if you think of the irony, uh, I'm a dyslexic publisher, so hey, um, you know, everyone thinks because I'm part Jewish, shalom, and I'm dyslexic that I must kill it at reading Hebrew, but I don't. Um yeah, it's so it was really an interesting deal. I went to breakfast with one of my mentors. He's an executive at a major hospital chain or organization out in the Houston area, and he had been mentoring me for several years at this point in 2006, and he told me about a publishing experience he had with a self-publishing company that that went up to his standards, and so he had this idea for a publishing company. And I was like, I don't know why this guy is telling me this. Like, I I I mean, one day I'll write my story, but I don't really care. But I'm you know, I respect the guys who's listening. And so he got to the end of his pitch and he's like, I think you should do this. And I said, Excuse me? He said, Yeah, I've got I've been promoted at work to a higher position, and um, I'm not gonna have time to do this, but I think you should. I think you should always have a way for you to be able to support your family and to never um have to make a choice between preaching the gospel and money. And uh, and so it was really a profound moment. And I went home to my wife, she's like, What in the world do you know about publishing? I'm like, absolutely nothing. Um, I can read books now and I like books, and so we started learning. He had done some research, so I started researching it, and apparently I'm better at sales and marketing than I am actually a graphic design because I sold my first book deal and then was quite in a bind because of my lack of design skill. And so I started learning the joy of outsourcing to some friends of mine at the time, and um, you know, and so we stumbled through and made the book and learned in design and um but didn't really do much the first few years other than a few books here and there. But just through a I would say a providential chain of events, we started getting some larger named authors. Um, and in 2010, we published Bum Phillips, the former head coach of the Houston Oilers, and that opened up a lot of doors for us distribution-wise, and also um with um, you know, with other authors. And so it was just really a chain of events, you know, that that led us to that place. But that's really how I got involved in publishing. I published my own book through our company in 2013, did a revision in 2014 because of my experience publishing. Uh, we started a writing services department in 2016 uh with uh with a chief editor that helps manage all the editing process, uh quality control, things like that. So um learned a ton along the way, failed a bunch, still trying to fail forward along the way. And um, but that's that's pretty much the story of how it came to be. And you know, really over the years, we decided, okay, one of the main focuses we've had the last two years is helping authors market their books because um, you know, you can write a great book, but if you don't have a strategy to get it out there, then that's a big problem. That's a big void that I've noticed with my friends who've been traditionally published, self-published, or partner or professional published, um, is is knowing how to adequately market their book. And so I'm building an online course right now called the book marketing masterclass, and I have a group of about 95 guinea pigs going through it right now and uh building that out as well. So we're just constantly trying to grow. Our ultimate hope is to help authors um create wonderful, impactful books that people love to read and share with others, and that's been our aim for quite some time now.
SPEAKER_01Beautiful. So, how do you balance your roles as both the CEO of a for-profit company and the pastor of a church at the same time?
SPEAKER_02Um, some days not very well. Most of the time, um, I think it's just one of the ways the Lord's redeemed my ADHD. Um uh and uh I have excellent team, uh I have excellent teams on both sides. Uh, you know, I I I joke and somewhat and I'm somewhat serious at times by saying that, you know, in many ways I went through my midlife crisis at the age of 17 after my crash, to where, you know, becoming grossly aware of my shortcomings and over over the years becoming profoundly aware of my strengths. And so taking the Pareto principle, which I first learned, I think in economics, um, in college at University of Houston, but also heard Tim Timothy Ferris apply it to business practices, begin to exercise, okay, 20% of what I do brings 80% of the results. And so in leadership, um, one of the things that I'm really strong at is coaching. I was actually certified as a business coach in 2009. And so one of the, you know, people say CEO or all that, I really see myself both at the church and in the business as a head coach, um, where I need to make sure that all my team, my my smaller um areas of oversight have everything you need. They're equipped, they're encouraged, and they're resourced to execute upon the main vision. But um, just really learning my place along the way has helped me to manage everything well, to ask for help when I need it, to admit my shortcomings, to say I'm sorry a bunch. Uh, and my goal the last couple of years is to have to say sorry to my family less. Um, that's that's one of the shortcomings I think, you know. And I know you own a publishing company as well and do a lot of great things. And, you know, one of the things I think we find is realizing that thinking is work. And a lot of times if we don't schedule for it during our workday, we end up taking it out on not being fully present with our family. And that's something I'm really trying to fight forward in um recently. And I would say that's one of my shortcomings as a leader.
SPEAKER_01Wow. So, wow, I guess so. Would you say it's like as far as the way you split your time, is it like 50-50 or 60-40?
SPEAKER_02If you if you want, if if you don't mind some boring details, and I'm I'm glad for you to edit out. Um, basically the way I see it is the Lord works six days a week and took one day's a rest. Um, and so I'm not the Lord, and so sometimes I need more rest than that. But uh typically I work from Sunday to Friday. Um, and the way I split up my time typically is Sunday through Wednesday is primarily church uh work. Thursday is a flex day for both lucid and church, and then Friday is full-time lucid. Um, there are weeks that I have to do full-time church. So, you know, we had a death in the church uh last spring, and so that wiped out my entire week. So I would say probably 65, 70 hours doing church things, you know, being with our church, you know, preaching, things like that. Um, and and so um utilizing technology. So, for instance, with our church and with lucid books, we use Slack for communication, we use Trello for project management, we uh on the on the book side, we use Basecamp for author portal, um, and and so we leverage a lot of technology so that we can be mobile. I think one of the things that we miss out on as leaders is believing that physical presence is the answer to the problem. That's not always true. Um, what we're able to do though is is to be able to sharpen ourselves to provide answers, guidance, and coaching to our teams so that we're able to multiply and replicate ourselves. Ultimately, as a Christian, that's our goal is replication or multiplicate. You know, and uh and so I think as business leaders, I think that transfers over very well also that idea of drawing out what's best in a person and setting them free to execute upon that. Um, my friend Rod Brace, who you should have on your show sometime, he's he was the mentor that helped me with lucid books, but he's currently the chief learning officer at that hospital system. Um, and he uh he talks about the moral obligation of a leader to provide meaningful work for their people. And so I really try to do that, hire that way. And so for me, I I would say my my secret weapon is um um is HR, like the ability to find gifted people to draw out what's deep through spiritual discernment and just wisdom and good books, and then to have a way to execute rolling reviews on a monthly basis to keep everybody on track. And so it may take 10 hours at the church and about 10 hours at Lucid or less than 10 hours at Lucid um to invest in people, but then you're setting them free and compensating them to really build your company for you.
SPEAKER_01So, Casey, you you may uh have have seen this. Pastors are not generally known for having uh extensive business backgrounds and business acumen. Um, you seem to be pretty unique in my experience, and just you know, seminary classmates, and just as I've kind of been a part of the church world, uh, and so there's been a pretty significant disconnect between the pulpit and the marketplace. So as a as a CEO of a for-profit company, uh how do you how does that allow you to get a more um more more sympathetic and empathetic with what the marketplace Christian is going through and and how does that affect the way you preach your church programs and so on?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Darren, I appreciate that question. I think it's very thoughtful and neat. It's it's meaningful. Um I believe we're gonna see an increase over the next 10 to 20 years in the need for pastors to be bivocational. Um, I think the luxury of being able to spend 30 to 40 hours in books and studying is gonna become diminished, except for in more affluent areas. Uh, I am intentionally bivocational, not out of necessity, partly because how I'm wired, part of being aware of myself, but partly out of necessity of charting a course forward that I think is going to be more common than we realize. There's already an increase in the church planning world and in pastoring for the need for bivocational work. I think the Apostle Paul charted, I know he charted that course by being a tent vendor and earning his revenue and a living through doing other work. And so I'm I'm not doing something unique or brand new. I'm doing something I believe is biblical and unique to my calling. I started my first company when I was 13 years old. I was a DJ. My parents were always encouraging of my entrepreneurial bent. Um, and you know, so I was selling dances to middle schools by the time I was a freshman in high school. Um, but you know, I had pretty limited capacity. Emotional intelligence was low, uh, my emotional quotient was low, and and so, you know, stress ate my lunch at times. So um, but they always let me try things, they let me fail forward. Um, and so that's one of the things I'm eternally grateful for. So business has always been something that I think comes somewhat naturally, uh, at least in the way I think. Um, but also want to be uh as a Christian, be fair. I I I I really get frustrated when I hear believers say, man, that's just business, you know, and they bifurcate because the the gospel is a lens that we view the whole world, not just, you know, not just church life. And so I think it enables me and empowers me as a pastor to be able to lead out and not bifurcating so much. That uh I tell people who are interested in partnering when I've had potential investors in the past for our company, I've let them know that, you know, as a Christian and even more so as a pastor called to be above reproach, there are certain things that may be legal and they may be even ethical, but but aren't really you know uh you know, above reproach, like going beyond, and that will frustrate you in leadership or in partnership with me. Um, but I think that that allows me to forge ahead. Also, in running a nonprofit organization, a nonprofit corporation in its bones um has different goals in some sense, but similar operations. And so I think they both sharpen me in both directions. On I believe being a pastor has helped me be a better businessman and a better in business has sharpened me to be a better leader in my church. Um, and I think because I have a proclivity at times towards OCD, having uh more than one place to necessarily focus prevents me from making it a cult of personality at the church and being all about building me and my brand and everything else. It forces me to understand the role of equipping the saints for the work of ministry so that I can empower other men and women in the church to exercise their gifts for the good of the body. And so I see a lot of benefit to it. But there's definitely weeks that, you know, and typically the way it works out is either my family or the business suffer because of ministry stuff. And so, you know, I'm I'm really trying to be proactive and and finding better ways to, you know, build in margin and everything else.
SPEAKER_01I once heard a politician was asked the question uh who the and this politician was uh a former pastor, and they asked him, How does having been a pastor, how does that help you in the political as a as a public servant? And and it was a very, I think, um, insightful answer in the fact that when it comes to political issues, he doesn't just look at it as an issue, he looks at at the people who are affected. Because as a pastor, you're you you know those people one-on-one. If if it's an issue like abortion, you've done counseling with somebody that's gone through that. If it's an issue like, you know, losing losing a loved one, I mean you're doing that probably on a weekly basis. How what are some of the ways that being a pastor uh helps you as a as a business person, as a leader?
SPEAKER_02Uh it it forces me to slow down and ask why. Why, why would why would this person be making this decision? Because what I've learned is most of our expressed sin is symptom of deeper issues of unbelief or struggle. And so it it it it forces me to slow down. I can very much get in the area of my brain. Um on on the um the disk assessment, I'm a 99i and I'm an 88D, which is a decisive or driven person, but I downconvert to about a 35 to 40 D in my adaptive nature, which uh a friend that's an organizational psychologist or psychotherapist or whatever. I don't remember her thing, but she has a master's in that stuff, and she's like, golly, you must be stressed. And early on it was because a lot of times I can see what needs to be done and just want to tell you to do it. And on my days where I'm I'm more tired and and more fleshy, uh, I have a tendency to just shoot off, you know, commands, and especially at home. And so um, you know, I think it's helped me though as a pastor in in business to to care for the whole person rather than just the issue at hand. And so it helps me meet with people, helps me find a solution. Um, it it helps me to uh really fight for everyone, to find a true win for everyone. Um, and I think that that just that that collar of calling, if you will, uh I believe helps me to be um more fruitful um in business. And so, like I said, I don't really buy for Kate being a Christian and being a businessman. I'm a Christian who does business and I'm a follower of Jesus. And so um in the same way, I'm not just a pastor who owns a business. I I pastor because I'm a Christian and the church has affirmed that um you know that my uh my giftings require more time than just the common Christian. So um you know, so I I think there's ways that I think differently about it because of both forms of leadership, but I don't I don't some decision structures need to be different, but the the the role um, if done well, I don't think is that different, other than the responsibility of preaching the word of God um as a pastor.
SPEAKER_01Um do you ever run into people that just they just don't understand or maybe they're a little bit put off when the pastor is not only a pastor, but also uh has uh has a for-profit company. I mean, is that because I I know some people just from their background is just so foreign to them. What what has been your experience with that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I I have guys my age or younger that are like a pastor should just be a pastor full-time, you know. And hey, if we could pay you blank, could you would you do it just full-time? I said, no, I'm probably not your man then. The benefit I have though is I've been by vocational ministry essentially my whole ministry. And I've been in ministry, you know, a long time. Uh I started my first internship in 1997, my first full-time role in ministry in 2000. Uh, so that's that's kind of gone along with me. But along the way, I mean, even my own wife, you know, at times she's like, Don't you just want to be a pastor? And I think over the years she's realized that what I do in business helps me to be a better pastor and vice versa. Um, and will I always have the capacity to think through all this stuff? I don't know. The the way my brain's working today and this year and and recently is, you know, I can I can have the stress of publishing and then say a prayer and take a minute, go for a walk, come back and say, All right, I got to sit down and finish my sermon notes. And, you know, uh, I mean, unfortunately, when I was traveling and speaking so much, you know, communication in and of itself became a habit where I can talk and you know, without much preparation. I remember Dr. Rodney Wu at seminary said to us, I went to Southwestern here in Houston, and he said, you know, he said, if you're going to preach the word, you better know it. And so I spent a lot of time early on reading the New Testament each month. So 10 chapters a day going through the New Testament over 30 days. And and so by God's grace, I use some compounding interest, if you will, of really studying the word of God. Now, the Old Testament I haven't been through as frequently, I admit that. Um And I'm reading through it right now as an Isaiah this morning. But um, you know, I I studying the word, your your your quiet time, your quiet time's not just for you as a Christian, your quiet time is for those whom whom whom you're serving. And so for me, the way I'm wired, it seems like these little pieces along the way have enabled me and empowered me to be able to grow into leadership and to also not just be a slave to money, you know, intentionally living below our means. So if we need a, you know, if I can't take a paycheck from Lucid because we're in a tough season, I can afford to do so without immediately endangering my family. And if the church needs more capital, then I'm able to give and be a generous giver there. So I think as people get to know me and understand my heart, I I think the question, Darren, that really pops in people's mind isn't really capacity. I mean, some people judge things from an egocentric standpoint. They're like, I could never do that, therefore no one could ever do that. That's just immaturity, you got to bear with. I think the primary concern or suspicion comes to motive, the why behind it. And I think people have a problem with it with motive. I've seen guys who were full-time at a church, who want to remain full-time at a church and then start doing another side hustle or something else. And they've had a harder time doing that if it's not consistent with ministry. Like if they want to start writing and speaking on the side, their church could have affirmed that. But if like I'm gonna do real estate investing and real estate on the side, if if that hasn't been built into the DNA and culture, it'll be not impossible, but it'll take a longer time to make sure people um don't experience a lag in leadership. And so one of the things that's helped me is is just you know, a couple times a year asking my elders, asking my staff, do you feel like I'm providing everything that you and the church need? And if they say no, we need more time with this, then I make an adjustment. Same thing with my company. And I think being open to that feedback and and holding on to things loosely enable me uh in this season of life to be able to do that. Um, so you know, that that's kind of where I sit right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well said. I I was talking with this pastor from uh Thessaloniki, Greece, and and the culture there is very much about the the tent making and the bivocational approach of pastors, and of course, that's goes back to the apostle Paul and the example that he said. He was saying he was actually telling me that um it it's almost um the the congregation almost doesn't get it when the pastor isn't bivocational. It's like it's that's what he was telling me, that it's actually an expectation. So, you know, I don't know if that that's if he speaks for the whole country, but uh, but he certainly seemed to be under that impression. In fact, I think they had about three different pastors that kind of rotated through, and so they're all doing their thing in the marketplace and then you know, sharing the responsibilities for the church, which I thought was interesting.
SPEAKER_02I and I'm not I'm not generally opposed to that idea. Like um I I'm just of the opinion, Darren, that we can fill the Parkinson's law, right? You can fill up the amount of time you've been given. Uh, you know, and so I would say that 40 hours or 50 hours or 60 hours, um, we may need to do an assessment we're saying yes to anyways, on both sides. Um, because you know, that might indicate that there's a time to hire someone else. If it's taking you 60 hours to do your job, you probably have too much work to do. Um, or you're not working effec effectively or efficiently, or you need to utilize technology to block Facebook. I know we all think that we're social media evangelists and commenting on that post and all that chain in that group is going to change lives, but the reality is it's not prioritizing the best work that needs to be done. So in general, you know, I tell my staff, hey, if you finish your work one week at 30 hours, great, go do something, you know, be with your family, uh, read a book, sharpen your skill, you know, improve. Because there are going to be weeks someone asks you to work 50 to 60 hours, right? And so for me, it's it's more of the quality of the quality of work, the results of the work than the hours spent on working. And I think that's a very foreign culture, uh thought in most of our affluent cultures, um, where we're doing either too much work or not working smart. And I think I think that's something that that we could all stand to improve in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, good point, good point. So, Casey, as we wrap it up here, what would be a parting piece of advice you could share with our audience of Christian business professionals?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, be a Christian first, do business. I mean, business is God's. God created it, it's his. So let's, you know, I I think, you know, Christian chicken, you know, I I call Chick-fil-A gospel chicken. I have a buddy that that operates one in our area, and um I call it gospel chicken. It's not Christian chicken. All chickens are gods. You know, I'm like, just be a Christian and do business, you know. Let the let the Sermon on the Mount be your guide, let the Ten Commandments be a dashboard, let let Christ's example be a way forward. Let um, you know, I I think the Jewish mindset, the the biblically uh Old Testament mindset of prosperity isn't so that I can build wealth for myself, it's so that I can be a blessing to my community. And so I think part of we we miss that where it becomes very self-centric, where I need six homes and a private jet and a car and all that stuff, but I'm gonna neglect those in need right around me, the widows and the orphans. I think we can do a better job as a Christian saying, hey, the money that we earn is so that we can be a conduit of wealth, not a cul-de-sac of it. And I stole that from John Piper, but it's this idea that that we are able to rightly steward all that belongs to God so that we can be generous. We need more Christian businessmen and women who love Jesus and you know, aren't afraid to go in and chart new territories and engage in commerce and have a voice into the energy sector and have a voice into technology and in all sorts of areas. And so as a pastor, I encourage that in our people. As a pastor, I encourage people to take um calculated risks, uh, trusting Jesus and to uh lean into their giftings. And so I would say, you know, really, it's really important as followers of Jesus that as we conduct ourselves in business, that part of being a Christian is we repent. Um, and so, you know, there's times we're gonna make mistakes. We own it, we apologize. There's gonna be times where we need to forego on a deal because of what it might mean. I was recently talking to a good friend of mine. He walked away from a 25 million investment, eight of it, which would have been his because the deal wasn't right. He's a follower of Jesus and he's like, I just don't trust where that money's coming from or the intentions. And he just walked away and baffled people. Um, and it's not that there aren't other uh investors lining up because he has a great business and great technology, but it baffled people because it would have been a game changer for him and his company and everything else. And he felt the Lord leading him to hold out, wait for something better. So I think that's those are some examples that we can really open up opportunities and bring explanation of the gospel.
SPEAKER_01Powerful. Casey, the website that I have here is uh casece.com. There's a lot of uh you can learn more about casey there. Um is that's C A-S-E-Y-C-E-A-S-E.com. And I'll have that in the show notes. Uh, any other places you want people to go check out?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you can check out lucidbookspublishing.com, L-U-C-I-D bookspublishing.com. I'm available on Twitter and Facebook, uh, Instagram. Instagram's more of my family and stuff I'm doing and reading. So if if you want to see into my life, you can see it there. Uh, but yeah, I'm glad to connect and help along the way. The church I pastor is c3.church. It's Christ Community Church. We just got lazy, so c3.church, there's sermon video on there, and um just learn more about what we're doing here. But yeah, if you're around the area, want to want to connect some time, we'll have to grab a cup of coffee.
SPEAKER_01I'm looking forward to that, and uh I will absolutely take you up on that. Uh Casey, thank you so much for sharing your time and expertise and your passion and being so bold with your with your story and and uh just thank God for how the redemption that he's brought about in your life and uh and how the you're making such an incredible impact on the lives of people.
SPEAKER_02Thank you.