Welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast with Host Derek Sheer, an initiative of the RTW Dunham College of Business at Houston Baptist University. This is the show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate their local values into business. You can get more information about the HW Center for Christianity and Business and sign up to receive free access to all five issues of the Christian Business Review Journal by visiting our website at Christianityandbusiness.com.
SPEAKER_01On today's episode, we'll be discussing proven strategies for discipling next generation business leaders. And we're joined by Danita Bai. Danita is founder and CEO of Sales Growth Specialists, which is a leadership and sales development firm that partners with business owners to improve sales performance as part of their growth strategy. And she writes a leadership blog at danita by.com. That's d-n-i-t-a-b-y-e.com. Check the show notes for the link and click through and get tips, tools, and talk tracks for those who mentor emerging leaders. And she's committed to the development of next generation leaders. She serves on the board of directors for two private Christian universities and the North Dakota Economic Development Foundation. And she's the author of the new book, Millennials Matter: Proven Strategies for Building Your Next Generation Leader. And that's going to be the subject of our talk today. Welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast, Anita.
SPEAKER_02Delighted to be here. Thanks for the invitation.
SPEAKER_01So tell us what are some of the biggest misconceptions people have about the millennial generation?
SPEAKER_02Well, it seems to me that millennials get a bad rap in the press. It's as if the um entire generation gets labeled as narcissistic and entitled and living in their parents' basement and um and uh in reality there is a a group of millennials just like there's a group of maybe Gen X and baby boomers that fit into that category, but that does not define uh the entire generation. And they are different, they have were raised in a different culture, uh, but different does not mean that it has to be bad. In fact, that difference uh potentially can be a strength in many areas. So um, as a friend of mine says, uh, because millennials matter to God, they should matter to us.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02They should matter to us. And so my passion, my goal is really to energize and equip um leaders, Christian business leaders, leaders with strong moral character, to step up to the plate and to see the incredible stewardship responsibility before them to mentor this generation. So they get a bad rap in the press. Uh that is not the case overall. And even if even if they are narcissistic entitled and everything else, as followers of Jesus Christ, as leaders and elders, uh, we've got to step up to the plate and um disciple and work with this next generation.
SPEAKER_01If you had to really distill it down into the most fundamental difference between millennials as opposed to, say, their parents, or uh, you know, what would that difference be?
SPEAKER_02You want just one?
SPEAKER_01Well, is there, I mean, is there something that that, or maybe two or three, but really, because you know, there are a lot of different, you know, there's the on-demand, uh, and a lot of it is driven by technology technological advances that millennials are inundated with, and and so there's a lot of that influence is coming into play, but I mean, what what would you say would be that one of those, or maybe just a couple of those core differences?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. So one is technology. Uh technology, they are so steeped in technology that it's almost like um it's an extra arm or a leg. It's just a part of who they are, so it's a very natural part of their thinking, um, as opposed to older uh kind of generations. Um, and that gives them some advantages in multiple areas. So number one is technology, number two is their desire to uh a desire is the wrong word, it's their need to be seen as an individual. So for the most part, millennials hate being put into the category of millennials because they want to be seen as an individual and recognized as an individual. Um, so that's number two. Number three, I think this is an amazing statistic. Um, 91% see themselves as a leader.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02So as we're coaching and leading and and discipling them is to recognize that there's there's that spark of leadership that we can tap into. So we've got um, so those so those would be the three of the top ones that come to mind.
SPEAKER_01I think I've never heard that statistic before, and I think if our listeners take nothing else away from this, I mean that is a game changer. I mean, uh how does that that in and of itself, 91% of millennials see themselves as a leader? Whereas it seems like a lot of the leadership books coming out in the 80s, 90s, it's like every introduction to those books says, okay, now make mistake, make no mistake about it. You are a leader. If you have so it's like you have to kind of talk people into seeing themselves as leaders with the previous generation, and yet that's a foregone conclusion for millennials.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, they are leaders, and and you know, it's a it's a great question, Darren. I I don't know where that came from. I think part of it has come from our parenting, um, that in parenting this generation, for the most part, we have given them just constant uh praise and recognition. And so as they've been parented like that, now when they go into the workforce, that's what they also are expecting. And I would submit that that's how they're going, that that's how they thrive. So my um area of specialty has been in building high-performance sales teams. And one of the keys to um building and nurturing and instilling and leveraging and maximizing uh a sales organization is to see their strengths and to leverage those, to be able to expect great things from them and they will live up to those great things. And what I love about that is um that's part of as people of faith, we know that they're that God's fingerprint is on each of us, and that He has given each of us a unique set of skills and talents and strengths and calling, and that as we're uh leading and mentoring and discipling those that are in our spheres of responsibility and influence, um, that we can tap into that.
SPEAKER_01So, how does that affect? I mean, I'm I'm just so I'm so stuck on that that statistic that and it makes a lot of sense because our culture today seems to be to the point of obsession with leadership and the idea of leadership. And you know, don't be a manager, you know, we don't want to be managers, we want to be leaders, right? And I think the next generation has really latched onto that idea that if you want to be significant in life, you need to be a leader. So it's almost as if leadership being a leader is synonymous with I'm independent and significant. I mean, is there something is there something wrong with the millennials' understanding of what if 91% see themselves as leaders, I mean, what challenges does this create for mentorship and discipleship?
SPEAKER_02Great question. Um I have been, and I have uh two answers uh to that. The first is that I do believe that scripture teaches that we are all leaders in the sense that we are all wherever we are, we are to be people of influence. Um and and and I would submit people of influence in a positive way. And that's where you know our character and uh you know moral compass comes into play. So that's one part. On the other part, in terms of what some of the challenge challenges, is that uh because they see themselves as leaders, this can be uh uh difficult for the person who is the president of the company or the manager, because this young person, if they have ideas, they are going to bring them to the table. Uh, if if they have an opinion, they want to speak it, they want to share it. I just did an interesting uh experiment, uh, interesting dialogue yesterday. I asked a group of uh millennials, what can your bosses learn from you? And there were some great comments. Um uh Cooper said, Um, I think millennials may be better than the boss at solving problems. We can teach you how to be more organized and efficient with technology, and and I thought this was amazing. I can help you find the top weakness in your company.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02You know, so there's a bit of you know, the first time I read that, there's maybe a little bit of arrogance. I mean, you know, they don't have the wisdom inside and experience that we do, but on the other hand, they um they can spot things that we don't see. They can identify those blind spots, and because they see themselves as the leaders, they as leaders they are willing to bring them to the table. So, how do we leverage that and use that?
SPEAKER_01Well, in the previous generation, the the path there there was a path to becoming a leader. You know, it was something that you had to earn, you had to, you know, you had to pay your dues in those entry-level positions in a in a company or organization, and you know, really work your way up and earn the status as a leader, you know, your supervisor and your manager, then you're you know, at the highest level, that's when you become a leader, right? But now with millennials, it's like I've got a Facebook profile and a Twitter account, and and because I can put out ideas that people will see and have to deal with, therefore, I'm I'm a leader. Because I mean it's almost like that because of technology, it's put that leadership uh platform right in their lap without going through the process of what the previous generation understood as what it takes to truly be a quote unquote leader.
SPEAKER_02So as we look at best practices for business owners and managers, one of those best practices is that you provide lots of opportunities for personal growth, professional growth to enhance their leadership ability and their their understanding of leadership. So what I see uh and what I'm hearing is yes, they see themselves with leaders, and because of that, not all of them, um, but many of them are hungry and open for leadership experiences and a leadership conversation. And I often will switch that from or use it interactive, leadership and empowerment. And as in building high performance sales groups, you want your you want your people to be empowered. You want your people to be uh creative and innovative and to bring new ideas and new solutions to the table. So um, so from my perspective, I really see this desire for leadership as something that as business leaders we can tap into and start to leverage in uh multiple spheres.
SPEAKER_01Right. So what's been your tell us some more about your personal experience with discipling next generation leaders and where you really sense a calling to dive into this.
SPEAKER_02So I'll I'll tell a little bit of a uh a little bit of a longer story here. We all know how we can have some of those events in our life that seem to be disconnected, but in reality, uh God is getting our attention uh and fine-tuning minimally. Sometimes He's redirecting us, but many times just kind of fine-tuning our direction. And I'd had a number of experiences, which I talk about in millennials manner, where I was invited to consider exploring the option of being president of a private Christian university. And the Holy Spirit just awakened me to the incredible stewardship opportunity that we have, that I that in those, especially people in those positions, to raise up a generation of uh people with a high moral character that can go out into the marketplace and out into the business world. So I was super excited for 30 days. And one of the things that I've learned about myself is I can be excited about a lot of things for 30 days, but what happens on day 31?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02And on day 31, it re it for some reason was no longer of interest to me. That Saturday, um, I was having a phone conversation with my son Weston, who um had just uh attended the Willow Creek Leadership Conference. And I was just debriefing, talking about uh how are things going, what'd you think? And he was talking about, you know, this person said this, this person said that in a his kind of happy-go lucky way, and then he said, Mom, I have a message for you, and it was as if through the airwaves, his eyes locked with mine, and the whole world stopped, and he said, Mom, you must prioritize passing your leadership wisdom and insight on to the next generation. And I was stunned because this went like right to the core of my being, and um, and then of course he says, Hey, gotta go, mom, and he's off with his other friends doing whatever they were doing that day, but that was really continued to uh you know to just resonate with me. A couple weeks later, I sat down with him. Uh, and I says, I said, you know, first of all, thank you for sharing. I got it, I heard it. But let's be real. There in today's world, you have YouTube and um uh you have brilliant talking heads all over the place at the touch of your fingertips, 24-7. What in the world could I a baby boomer provide? I I says, I don't get it. And uh he said, Mom, you know, yes, that there are a lot of great talking heads up there, there are a lot of great influencers, but what we're missing is people who can walk along with us and to help us to figure out what this really looks like when the rubber meets the road. For example, we we know we're supposed to live out our faith at work, we know that. But what in the world does that look like in the middle of sales calls and in the middle of meetings? What does that look like? Uh so you know those were a couple of those were some conversations that God used to uh get my attention.
SPEAKER_01Wow. And you know, to to a great extent, this the millennial generation, the I I I mean, as I look at it, uh I and as we were talking before, I'm kind of on the tail end of millennial generation, kind of uh you know, beginning of the Gen Xers and 35, yeah, Bridger, yeah. And and it seems to me that the Millennials are all about, and I think it will get even to a greater extent with future generations, the value of having things in real time and on demand. And even YouTube, even Facebook, even Twitter is a few seconds behind, you know what I mean? But an actual real life interaction and in specific, where's that happening? It's happening in the Workplace to where it's it's something that is literally happening in real time in that moment that is a growth opportunity. And in terms of spiritual development, I don't see any better place for that to happen than in the for a millennial, as far as where a millennial would actually hear it and want to experience it, would be in a real life everyday situation because that is as real time and you know on demand, even when they don't want it. It's it's happening. Yeah, I mean, because that's that's the that's the great fear with the millennials is that, oh, well, you know, they don't want to come to our church because they can just get church on their computer. Well, yeah, I mean, they want things in real time and on demand, but even that is you know a day late. It's a minute behind. Like they need, we all really need things to happen in the moment. And I think I mean Jesus understood that. And you talk about how our calling to make disciples, and you point out that it's it's as you go, make disciples, you know, what it says go into all the world. Why don't you talk a little bit about the um like what does that look like in a workplace setting? Can if somebody says, what does discipleship look like? Discipling a millennial in the workplace, what does that look like in a given workday?
SPEAKER_02Well, I would submit that we're all figuring that out. Um, but you know, there there are some things that um that come to mind. Um the one that comes to mind is how we as leaders mentor and model a whole host of ethical issues that happen in business. And are we willing to talk through authentically and realistically, first of all, what we're kind of debating and struggling with inside. And then are we willing to put it on the table and to ask them about what they're thinking and then to wrestle with this together? So they want, uh they crave authentic relationships, and if we um they are so media saturated, um, they are also sick and tired of slick. Um, and and that becomes a little bit of a uh difficult because sometimes we as leaders want to protect our vulnerabilities. Um, you know, we've you know, we we we know we've got our act together. That is not at all attractive to the millennials. They want to have this authentic relationship to weigh all the pros and cons and to have a discussion uh about what you're thinking about. So from a discipling and a mentoring, it's to uh to be able to share who we are authentically and then to give them space to put their wrestling on the table, also so that's with ethics. That also happens with failure. Um, they know that everybody has failed. Those are the stories they love. When you failed, what did you learn from it? They know, you know what, what when they see the slick, when they see everything's perfect, uh you we lose our unbelievability and we lose trust, and we aren't going to be able to speak into their lives if we don't have that believability on the trust. So that would be one area.
SPEAKER_01So that that's something practical that we can do is to just be vulnerable. Yes. And because they know we're, you know, we all have sin in our lives, they know we all have problems. And so why not why not open up about that? What are some other practical things that we can do uh to make disciples in a in a workplace setting?
SPEAKER_02So an another area that uh comes to mind for me is um that is a meeting place of discipleship, is that our culture is in the midst of a purpose crisis. So um the um our Rick Warren's book, The Purpose Driven Life. I mean, that has sold how many millions? Because we have a purpose crisis. That's what the millennials also. So they are looking for leaders and looking for companies that can clearly cast vision on the why and how of doing the business. How are you helping the world? How are you serving the community? And then along with that, to be able to find out from them how that aligns with their unique interests, how does that align with how they are wired? So that we begin to create some alignment, and I believe that that is part of discipleship because we are inviting them in the discussion to see um how God has uniquely wired them and created them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And in the workplace, I mean, you're you are right in on the path, on their career path with them, you know, versus well, let's let's kind of go to a separate retreat or you know, and those things are definitely effective uh in their own right, but there's really no substitute for being in the workplace with somebody to where if you get into conflict today, you don't just you know switch jobs. I mean, yeah, I mean, I guess millennials do that a lot. Yes, they do, but they're a lot more reluctant to do that when they're getting a paycheck from the place. You know, it's much easier to just switch a church or you know, change a group of friends or you know, whatever. But but when it comes to your livelihood, you know, that's not a it's a much more difficult thing to do. So I think there's um that there's there's some some permanence of a workplace that isn't really that's really unlike just about anything else in that millennial's life.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's interesting because they um they have high expectations of leaders. And you know, as I look back to some of the older generations, yeah, there was, you know, there's been lots of talk about leadership and um you know how important it is, but other generations gave their leaders a little bit more grace than the millennials give. So I see this as a place for us as leaders to really raise the bar on our leadership skills. So we know it's important to cast vision. I mean, we've been hearing about that for as long as there has been leadership literature being written. Um and in today's world with the millennials, is there is not clarity about where we're going, if there's not clarity about who we're helping and how we're helping, and if there's not clarity on feedbacks about how I am doing as we're working together to achieve the goal, they will start looking. Yeah, that's it's just it's so important for them.
SPEAKER_01Now, did I hear you say that they are more, in a sense, more critical of their leaders than previous generations? They have higher expectations of their leaders, yeah, higher ex higher expectations, you know, which is very interesting given the emphasis on tolerance and you know, your truth is your truth, and what's right for me is right for me, and and yet there is a higher expectation of leaders because they do have convictions, and um and and so there's there's uh uh I mean I think there's some hypocrisy there.
SPEAKER_02I'd say very interesting dichotomy, very interesting dichotomy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And uh, you know, because uh millennials are supposed to be, you know, do you, that's right, but but when it but as long as but um they don't necessarily mean it, do they?
SPEAKER_02Well they they certainly live it out in a little bit different ways than we would anticipate, yes.
SPEAKER_01Right, yeah, I mean, because I I think some of it is that there are more channels for uh venting, you know, like when you see yourself as a leader, it's probably easier to gossip and because you feel like you have a platform, right? So it's probably easier to so that that is interesting that you point that out. I never really thought about it like that. Um you know, that they do have those higher standards of for their for their leaders, and we really need to, you know, talk about living above reproach. I mean, you don't really get away with much with this millennial generation.
SPEAKER_02You really don't, because they if there's any inconsistencies, uh, they can spot it. Now, other previous generations could spot it too, but this generation, because of their confidence, their perceived confidence, um, they're going to speak it. They're going to be more vocal about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're gonna go, you know, gather, you know, their websites for scheduling protests. You know, it's like the pro protestscheduling.com, you know, I don't know what what the websites are, but you know, it just there's a lot of activism because of that. I think I see myself as a leader, right? I mean, and and we're supposed to disciple people like these.
SPEAKER_02Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01So what so what is the process? And I know we don't have time to go into all six of these, but you talk about a Dakota process acronym uh for mentoring a next generation leader. Uh, can you give us a taste of that? Certainly we want people to check out the book, Millennials Matter. Um, but just uh can you give us an introduction to that?
SPEAKER_02So, the the in our research, what we found is that there are three areas that uh business leaders are concerned about with this generation. Um the first area is character. Uh, the next area has to do with confidence, which is always surprising because they appear to be confidence, but the the leadership concerns is it a deep is it a deep uh confidence that can really withstand the test of a tornado and a hurricane? Uh so that's uh that was one part. And then the third category was in the area of collaboration and being able to handle difficult situations in a by having a face-to-face conversation versus having a text war. So those were the three areas. The first area with character, um, as we believe that our core character, our moral compass, our center of who we are flows out and impacts everything else in the world. It impacts all key relationships, uh, it impacts every job, um, every role that we have, everything is impacted by our core character. And when you start looking at character, you start talking about virtues. And I submit that for most of us in Western culture, the concept of virtues is like an old, outdated word. Uh, it's been around, it's one of those ancients that has stood the test of time, but it doesn't necessarily translate into everyday practical um to-dos or to be's um in today's business world. And so I took those virtues and put them into a concept uh that works for me called Dakota, and the D stands for determination. Um, one of as leaders, we're um always building resilience, and that's one of the things that God is doing within us is always building resilience so that we can stand the test. Um awareness to become uh increasingly aware of um emotionally, the people who are around us to become aware of who we are so that we can act wiser in any given situation. Knowledge has to do with um knowing that moral compass and being able to wrestle with um ethics and making wise decisions, uh being optimistic uh as you look through the uh you know the uh cardinal virtues, uh you have hope. And there's lots of things um that are wrapped up in hope, but one of them is having a positive vision for the future and having a positive outcome, trustworthiness, critical as part of our core character, and then finally accountability. So those areas uh for me was able to take this kind of nebulous concept of virtues and to break it down into something that's um uses today's words uh that we can actually have a conversation with a millennial about.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And when they're holding leaders to a higher standard, you know, that this is these are the standards that they're holding those leaders to. You know, regardless of their religious affiliation uh or no affiliation, they this is what they want. They want that for themselves, they want that for the people they work with. And and like George Washington said, it's impossible to rightly govern without God in the Bible. And the only way you're gonna get this stuff is is from the Bible, you know, through a relationship with uh with Jesus through the Holy Spirit. And um, and so you know, as Christians, who's in a better position to mentor the next generation than uh than Christians in the marketplace? Uh this is uh this is phenomenal material. Um Millennials Matter is the book, subtitles Proven Strategies for Building Your Next Generation Leader. And you can get that at danita by.com and D-A-N-I-T-A-B-Y-E dot com. Go and check that out. Um, anything else you want to say about what is offered there at the website, Danita?
SPEAKER_02One other thing at the website, this is very important. Uh, when you go there, uh there will be a banner at the top that says complete this two-minute millennial survey, and then you will receive an autographed complimentary copy of the book from me.
SPEAKER_01What?
SPEAKER_02Yes, absolutely. No, that will not go on forever.
SPEAKER_01Certainly not. So get it while you can.
SPEAKER_02It certainly is going on through the till the end of the year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So see, this is this is why it's good to be a subscriber instead of, you know, you found this episode, you know, some of you are listening to this right now a year later because you saw it on Google or something like that. But you know, those of you who are subscribers, you're getting this in real time. Uh, so go and um go and get that get that offer. That's amazing. Uh Danita, what would be a parting piece of advice you could leave with our listeners today?
SPEAKER_02This is actually uh a challenge and an exhortation, Darren. Um I believe that our stepping up to the plate to mentor this millennial generation is actually a test of our generation. Um David says, uh, and even when I am old and gray, and of course most of us are, or many of us are not old and gray yet, but he says, Um, do not forsake me until I declare your strength to this generation. So I see this as our stewardship responsibility is to be intentional about the millennials that are both in our spheres of responsibility as well as our sphere of influence, and to have a more intentional um engagement with them. And um, I do uh include this in Millennials Matter uh because it this is a message that um I received um from the Lord a number of years ago, and I believe this is not just a message for me, I believe that this is a message for all of us as we are looking to expand our influence and looking to be more bold in the areas that God is calling to. And this is how I'd like to close. It's a short reading and it's called the calling, it goes like this. I am calling you, I am anointing you, I am setting you apart for a divine plan. Rise up and walk in it. Behold, I make all things new. Turn your back on your old ways, I open new vistas and new opportunities. Walk in confidence, rest in my calling.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02And that is uh my hope and uh prayer for all of us that we will know God's anointing on our life and we will walk confidently in that.
SPEAKER_01So good, so good. Danita, thank you so much for this inspiration and for sharing your expertise on the show and uh certainly challenging to all of us to go out there and to be more intentional and be more informed and spirit-led about how we're making disciples and mentoring the next generation. May God continue to bless this book. Everybody go out and get it. Millennials Matter. Uh you can get at barnesandoble.com, Amazon.com, uh, go to danita by com to get that offer. If you're uh one of the early listeners to this, um perhaps it might still be available for you. Uh but thanks again, Danita.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much. Um I appreciate the opportunity to be here.
SPEAKER_00We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we would greatly appreciate it if you would leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity business podcast on iTunes. You can get more information about the HP Center for Christianity Business at Christianity Business.com. Thanks for listening. And remember to keep your pretty biblical values into your books.