Welcome to the Christianity in Business Podcast with Aaron Share, an initiative of RCW done on College of Business at Houston Patrick University. This is the show that helps Christian business leaders integrate their local values into business. You can get more information about the HP Center for Christianity in Business and set up to receive free access to all five issues of the Christian Business Review Journal by visiting our website at Christianity in Business.com.
SPEAKER_02Today we'll be discussing prayer, God's strategy for success in the marketplace. And we're joined by Oz Hillman. Oz has been featured on CNBC, NBC, LA Times, New York Times, and many other national media as a spokesperson on faith at work. And I can tell you on a personal note that he truly is one of the pioneers and what God is doing in the workplace today has made a profound impact on me, going back to my days probably over 10 years ago when I was in the military and got a hold of some of his books. And it was one of the first times that it had ever occurred to me that anyone had ever told me that God wanted to be involved in my work. And he is the president of Marketplace Leaders, author of 18 books, which is well, his 18th book is just coming out, depending on when you're listening to this. It is The Joseph Calling, Six Stages to Discover, Navigate, and Fulfill Your Purpose. And we'll hear a little bit more about that here in just a minute. And he's also the author of a daily email devotional called TGIF, which stands for Today God is First, which has nearly 200,000 readers in 104 nations. And you can check out more about Oz at marketplaceeleaders.org. Oz and I got connected, um, you know, as I mentioned, I read several of his books and got a hold of his teaching uh years ago when I was really in a very formative uh place in discovering what God was doing in the workplace. And and we've gotten connected through this Love 2020 campaign, uh, which is an initiative to reach the entire workplace, every workplace person in America with the love of Jesus by the year 2020. So this is gonna be a fun, uh, fun interview. Welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast, Oz.
SPEAKER_01Darren, good to be with you. And uh been great getting to know you over the last few years.
SPEAKER_02Likewise. So we're talking about prayer today, uh, which somebody's scratching their head, you know. Prayer is that something that that you do outside of, you know, you're about to sit down for a meal, or you know, your your pastor is praying at the church, or you know, what is prayer? I don't want to gloss over this. Uh, what is prayer and particularly what is prayer as it relates to a person's work and business?
SPEAKER_01Well, I think uh prayer is simply talking with God and uh it's about communication. And you know, Jesus talked about prayer, he said, you know, that um my sheep hear my voice. And uh that means that we don't have a religion, we have a relationship, and uh, even when you go to say other faiths, that makes our faith very different because it's a two-way relationship that we expect to be able to hear God um in that still quiet voice and and and really in a lot of different ways. In fact, I I wrote a book called Making Godly Decisions, How to Know and Do the Will of God, in which I identify five or excuse me, ten different ways we hear from God. And prayer is one of those ways, but it's sort of mixed within all of those in some ways. And um specifically as it relates to um the marketplace, you know, there's two ways of looking at prayer. There's prayer and then there's intercession, and we'll we'll define that difference in a minute. But you know, I heard someone say that uh prayer is about listening more than asking, you know, that God, what's on your heart today, and how would you have me go about my day today? And um, you know, that may sound like a very spiritual thing to say, but in essence, that's really what he's trying to get us to do. And uh so the marketplace is a very uh important place for prayer. Uh, we even see David in the Old Testament where he prayed about his battles, and one time he was about to go up against the Philistines, and uh he had attacked them, and you know the battle was still going on, and so he's asking God, he said, God, should I attack the Philistines again? And it says there in the scripture that uh uh God answered him and said, Yes, but not until you hear the marching and the balsam trees. Well, he got some specific strategy on how to defeat the enemy. And uh I think of times in business where uh we need wisdom, and you and I were talking before the before we did the interview about George Washington Carver and how here was a man that um told the farmers back in the the time of a lot of discrimination and slavery. And he was a he was a an inventor, and uh he had told all the farmers that they needed to plant, you know, stop planting cotton because the land couldn't couldn't um handle it anymore, and so he told them to plant peanuts and sweet potatoes, and and uh so they followed his advice. The only problem was there wasn't enough demand for those, and so the farmers were persecuting him, and so he tells the story about how he went into prayer over that issue and asked God, God, why did you make the sweet potato and the peanut? And God gave him over 300 uh marketable products from the peanut and over a hundred from the sweet potato, and it literally transformed the southern economy because now there was demand for these products. And so here was a man who understood prayer, and he walked out in this field and say, God, why did you make the peanut? Why did you make the sweet potato? And if we can learn that in business, who knows what God might uh ideas he might give us to you know do great things.
SPEAKER_02I love that example about George Washington Carver. You know, as we aim to bring our faith to the workplace, it in a lot of ways it begins with prayer, right? I mean, it's it's an awareness that God wants to speak, that he wants to guide us, that he wants to fill us with a sense of purpose and eternal meaning, you know, that our work isn't just something that's worthless, it's not something that it really doesn't make any eternal consequence, but starting going to the workplace, first of all, with an awareness that God's presence is there and that he wants to speak and and actually have a relationship. I heard it said that prayer is spiritual breathing. Um, I mean, isn't that really the starting point uh for bringing your faith to work?
SPEAKER_01Well, it is, it should be a central part of who we are. You know, I have a mentor who used to tell me all the time, he said, How are you going to manifest Jesus in that endeavor? How are you going to manifest God's presence in your endeavor? And prayer is a very crucial part of that. You know, I'm thinking I think of um in chapter 5 of Matthew, it says Jesus is talking to the disciples before he leaves earth, and he's giving him them instructions, and he says, I'm going to give you the keys of the kingdom so that whatever you bind on earth and bind in heaven and loose on earth and loose in heaven, you'll have that authority to do that. And basically what he was saying is that that's what prayer was for to pray prayers to manifest what heaven was, in other words, manifest heaven on earth. That was his assignment to you and I, to manifest heaven on earth. And that has to be done through prayer and using our authority. So, you know, several years ago, I heard um Gunnar Olsen terror, who is the founder of the International Christian Chamber of Commerce, and my spiritual father, he uh told a story about having a a problem in his business. He had this plastics business that they would make plastic bags that would fit over the bales of hay every every harvest season. And uh there was a molecular breakdown on the bags. And uh what happened was they they went into their warehouse ready to ship a thousand pallets of bags and found that the plastic had sealed back together, and uh it was a molecular breakdown, and so the scientists came and inspected and said, I'm sorry, you just have trash here. And so uh they didn't know what to do, and so his brother was running the business. He says, I guess we're out of business. And but Gunnar took it to prayer and wit took it to his family to pray about, and and through their prayer, God basically said, You know, if I can turn water into wine, what are plastics? And God gave um Gunnar um just faith to believe for a miracle in that situation. And so that was a Friday afternoon. He didn't go back to the plan until Sunday night and saw the situation. And he and his wife and family went throughout the whole plan and prayed and just proclaimed Jesus over that business and said, in the name of Jesus, we command those bags to be restored to their original condition. Well, it sounds like a crazy prayer, but um Monday morning they went back to the plant and all the employees started opening the boxes and said that the bags had been restored, and it was a miracle of you know, amazing proportions. They had all the scientists come back to to prove that you know it was a genuine miracle. You know, I had a situation a few years back where I was taking shipment of a book that, you know, is actually quite a bit ago, and it was really when the internet was getting going. And um I um I had to take a thousand copies of the book to get started. And so I had had them in my basement of my house, and I I um I was only selling two, three, five copies a week, and I was frustrated by that. And one morning on a Saturday, I remember the story about Gunnar Olsen and how he spoke to his mountain, and that was a verse out of 11, chapter Mark 11, that he quoted, to speak to the mountain, whatever mountain you have, speak to it. Use the authority you have through prayer. And so I said, you know, I think God wants me to go downstairs and speak to the mountain of books and tell them to get out of the basement. And so I went downstairs and I laid hands on the books and I said, In the name of Jesus, get out of the basement and go be a blessing to someone who can use these books. And uh, well, that was Saturday, and two o'clock that afternoon, I got a call from a ministry I'd never had any prior relationship with, out of Dallas, Texas, and they ordered 300 books for me. And uh that was quite a testimony for me. And of course I was glad it was Saturday where I couldn't rationalize it, but when you know, when our business was supposed to be closed. But um, you know, I think that's one of the missing ingredients that we in the workplace uh failed to tap into because it's really one of our tools uh of living, and uh so I love those.
SPEAKER_02I mean, Carver said he's he got 300 marketable products, and Oz Hillman sold 300 books as a direct result of the Lord moving in response to prayer. I love that. You know, I'm I'm curious, what do you think for a business person that is going about their their regular work weekend? And I mean, for one thing, maybe we're just not seeing miracles, and maybe the reason we're not seeing miracles is because we're not asking for them, we're not expecting them. Um, what are some of the other consequences of prayerlessness among Christian business professionals? And I mean, it's just so easy to just rely on our own strength, our own training, our own intuition, and and just not reach out to God's limitless power. What are what are some of those consequences of prayerlessness?
SPEAKER_01Well, several years ago um I went through a major crisis and and um during that season I ran across someone who described themselves as an intercessor, and that may be a more unusual term for some people. The the difference between someone who prays and someone who intercedes is some someone who intercedes really um goes into prayer over uh significant amounts of time, and they really enjoy that. They they really feel like they are called to that that uh process of interceding for a situation or for another person. And uh this intercessor who met me uh had learned about our ministry, and we were in you know, a major international ministry impacting the nations and impacting a lot of people. But I got hit pretty hard uh with this situation I was walking through, and and they made an interesting observation. They said, you know, prayer is a lot like a big oak tree. And uh above the ground is where your public ministry is, and that you see all the limbs and the different uh aspects of that tree, but underneath the ground are the roots, and uh so your your public ministry of what you do and what what you affect in the public realm is that tree above ground. It's all the limbs, all those oak limbs that are great and strong. But if you are not undergirded with prayer and intercession to really fight the battles in the spiritual realm, then you are susceptible to getting hit pretty hard because your foundation's not strong enough. It'd be like uh uh an oak tree trying to stand up with a you know a little uh you know pine tree or something trying to keep it up. And um, so that was a great illustration for me. And so ever since that time, I put a team of intercessors together called my Air Force team, um, because basically that's what they do. They they're interceding in the spiritual realm against attacks for our ministry. And so twice a month I have a one-hour call with them. I communicate with them by email other times, but you know, we have at least once a month have a call, and we're interceding about different things related to our organization. And this can it doesn't mean you have to be a nonprofit to do that. You you know, I have a for-profit business too that we pray for. And uh this group, we have a specific group that actually we contract with to that uh takes the lead for us in the whole prayer room. And I I get a report from them every month on what they've been praying about, and so that'll really blow everybody's mind now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and you and I both know of other companies that are hiring people to devote themselves to prayer specifically for the company. You know, there are there are consulting companies that specialize in prayer and and coaching the the leaders in the business on how to pray for their own companies, but also uh just being um being empowered and being strengthened from knowing that you have somebody that is praying for you by name. And and that, you know, and that really goes into really what we're called to do more broadly in the workplace is to reach those who don't know Jesus. And you know, one of the ways that we can do that is is through praying for them. I mean, in the workplace, when you maybe, maybe somebody is not ready for you to just open up a Bible at at the cubicle and walk over and start pointing to chapter and verse. But if you just go up to somebody and say, Hey, can I pray for you? You know, they express some kind of concern. Can I pray for you? They're gonna, of course, assume that you mean later, not there, and then watch what happens when you pray for them right then and there in the office.
SPEAKER_01That's right. You know, and prayer is a real easy one for people that can be an icebreaker for, you know, whenever you're in a working situation, how many times have we run into somebody, you know, in our workplace that says, Oh, I'm really struggling with this, or I've got a marriage problem, or you know, my my wife is sick, or my child is going through this. And and if you would just say, uh, I'm going to pray for that, uh, would you allow me to pray for you? And uh sometimes they'll let you pray on the spot. But what that immediately does is creates a connection with you and that person. And uh, you know, there's something about prayer that people are open to and they're not hostile versus you know, trying to share the four laws with somebody that's a different, they feel like they're trying to sell them something. But in this situation, you're actually serving them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. I mean, prayer is such a I mean, if you want to bring your your faith to work, you really want to make a more meaningful impact in the workplace, it it begins and really is what it's all about. I mean, because prayer is the way that we express that relationship with Jesus. I mean, he he told those guys, you know, you've done all these things in my name, but I never knew you. And and to to not know God in the midst of our of our daily lives is it's what a sad day it's gonna be if we go through an entire career like that and get the end of it and realize there was no depth of meaning, there was no sense of God's presence in my workplace. I mean, I I used to have uh another co-worker in my in my unit in the Air Force, and she's Muslim, and and she would uh she would go into the closet quite literally and and you know pull out her prayer rug and do her prayers. And and certainly, you know, we need to have private times, but we can pray. We don't have to go into put down a mat and go into a closet. I mean, God is God is everywhere and He's wanting to be involved. That's the thing that's so mind-blowing, I think, is that God even cares about the way I'm crunching that number or the way that I'm you know sweeping that floor.
SPEAKER_01Well, a lot of times I think people have this sort of uh humility about the whole thing and think, well, you know, I remember I remember um a man who told me about a problem he was having, and I said, Well, we're I'm gonna form a I want to do a call tomorrow and we're gonna pray for you. And said, Oh, well, don't let him pray for me, let him pray for somebody that really needs it. Well, this guy had a brain tumor. And I said, you know, and so we actually did pray for him, and he got healed of that brain tumor, and um so you know, you you never know as you cross paths with people what they're going through, and that you might be the person that God plants right there for that situation. So, um, you know, the other thing I just say about prayer is that I I had a former board member who was telling a wonderful story about prayer, and he was a pilot, and he used to deliver mail and uh you know from one city to another in Michigan, and uh this was before he was married, and so across in Germany there was a youth with a mission training facility going on, and there was a a um a group of ladies that would come every morning and they would pray, and what they would do is they say, Lord, what's on your mind today that we're to pray about. And uh well they um they say well there's a plane uh that's uh that's uh delivering mail there's two men in the plane and one they have blue jumpsuits on and but they're having trouble landing and um so we're supposed to pray for them and so then one one of the sisters says the to the other sister and this plane has something to do with you well I c I she just doesn't uh have any idea why that would have anything to do with her. Well back in uh Michigan um this uh guy is um there they've been told that they should um not try to take off that day uh to try to go to Grand Rapids because there's fog and you won't beat it. Well they just decided you know um I think we can beat it and so they tried to beat it. Well they got there and nope they it was not there uh I mean the fog was there they couldn't land went to the next city couldn't land with the next city couldn't land finally the red lights on on their jet and uh they think they're gonna crash well finally the last city they chose allowed them to land but it was just really tight so here across the country across the world in Germany someone's praying for them and so many many months later uh Craig meets one of the women there named Jam and they end up having a courtship and they during their courtship he begins to share with her about this experience he had where he almost crashed because of running out of fuel and she says wait a minute wait a minute before you go anywhere let me ask you a question Were there two of you in the plane?
SPEAKER_02Were you wearing blue jumpsuits were you delivering mail he says yeah how do you know all that so we saved your life I love that story my goodness I mean and it all started with the question God what's on your mind today and I think that's just great advice for no matter what situation no matter what occupation somebody is in and no matter what time of the day whether it's beginning of the day or you know you're on your lunch break or you're about to go into a meeting you know God what's on your mind today what's on your mind concerning the situation that I'm dealing with and boom you're right there in an attitude of of prayer and just you know practicing his presence and just saying God you know what uh and and just being able to open yourself up to see those kinds of miracles I love that as we're wrapping it up here I want to hear about this new book The Joseph Calling Six Stages to Discover Navigate and Fulfill Your Purpose um why don't you tell us what that book is about well Darren you know I went through a crisis back in the 90s in 1994 in which uh ushered me into a season of seven years I had major financial losses family losses business losses and I I it really turned my world upside down and uh two years into that adversity I met uh Jay Gunnar Olson founder of the International Christian Chamber of Commerce and I heard him on an audio tape talk about that God was raising up Joseph's all over the world today and it's often signified by them going through extraordinary adversity in their business and personal life.
SPEAKER_01Well I when I heard that I said gosh that I need to meet that guy and uh so I flew to Washington where he was going to be in two months I flew up there at the time he was there and he allowed me to share my story and he said us you have a Joseph calling on your life and um he said sure you probably made some mistakes but what you need to realize is the call is bigger than the mistakes and um so that day he became my spiritual mentor and he said you used you have a you have a marketplace call to be a spiritual and physical provider to others and it is a marketplace call just like Joseph was a marketplace call and he went through seven years of adversity and uh seven years of plenty seven years of adversity uh and uh that adversity prepared him to be a spiritual and physical provider to Pharaoh and uh the people to save a nation and so what uh what I discovered in studying that is I also discovered six stages that Joseph went through that I find almost every major leader in the Bible goes through as well in that. And so it's a book that will help people understand calling and it'll especially help those who are going through adversity make sense of their adversity.
SPEAKER_02And we've as I mentioned we set up a a website that people can actually download the first chapter at thejosafcalling.com thejosafcalling.com well everybody definitely go and check that out and then of course the book will be on Amazon right yeah and we also have it on our bookstore tjiabookstore.com you can get it there when you order it from us they'll uh we'll we'll give it to them with us as a signed copy and uh they'll also be able to get a free ebook if they go to the josephcalling.com well I'm a book publisher and so I'm very familiar with the people's habits and I know some of our listeners no matter what kind of you're they're gonna get an autograph no matter what it is they're gonna buy it from Amazon so I would say go buy it from the josephcalling.com and let Oz sign your book and uh you know and and he'll make more money that way too um and uh and today got is first dot com there's a a new version of the website there you know this this devotional has been I believe it was my mom who was the first person that forwarded me one of those emails years ago Oz uh but hundreds of thousands of people uh mil really millions have been touched by these so anything else you want to say about the the website well it's a new website and uh every day four new devotionals are uploaded uh uh TJ 1 TJ2 then we have listening to the father's heart which is a devotional written first person father to the son and then the fourth devotional is actually my daughter wrote a devotional for next gym TJ for next gym so it's a great resource great site to uh to bookmark on your web on your computer that if you want to read in the in the morning and access it each day it's uh has some great tools on it fantastic so wrapping up our theme on prayer um as really God's strategy for success in the marketplace uh why don't you leave us with a parting piece of advice well I think that what we need to realize is that when Jesus gave us the Lord's prayer he said our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven and you know we've got a lot of bad stuff that um is taking place on planet earth and so what Jesus is telling us to do is I want you to be my representative to stand in the gap.
SPEAKER_01In Ezekiel it says I look for a man who would stand at the wall and stand in the gap so I might not have to destroy it.
SPEAKER_02And so we are that representative to stand in the gap in the culture and to manifest his presence in the area of our calling and that is what I would encourage our listeners to do is to realize he's called us to manifest his presence in every area of our life and like the great evangelist DL Moody said out of a hundred people that one person will read the Bible the other 99 will read the Christian and and you know you're really the only you may be the only person praying for that person. You know thank God that I had a mother I had a praying father grandmother a lot of people they don't have anybody and and so be that one who is who is praying for your for your coworkers because there may there may be nobody else um so Oz this has been incredible and and encouraging and convict all at the same time thank you for sharing your time and your uh your wisdom with us may God continue to bless marketplace leaders in this book launch and today godisfirst.com and the josephcalling.com or the website uh thanks again Oz thanks Darren great time we hope you've enjoyed this episode and if so we'd greatly appreciate it if you would leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity business podcast online.
SPEAKER_00You can get more information about the HP Center for Christianity business at Christianitybusiness.com thanks for listening and remember to keep integrating physical values into your business