Today we'll be discussing elevating your company to keep performance. And we're joined by Sam Hunter. Sam is the host of South Carolina's Christian radio talk show 721 Live, which helps people to apply the Bible to their everyday lives. He's the author of the Putting Green Devotional Series, which actually has two volumes, and as well as a blog you can check out at puttinggreenblog.com. He'll explain a little bit more about what the putting green concept is all about. And he's also produced two DVD curriculum series Contentment, The Path to Peace, and Fear. Do you react in fear or respond in faith? And Sam has a vibrant men's ministry. He's been speaking to men's groups weekly and discipling groups of men uh for years now that that look to him as a mentor, as a as a friend and a disciple maker, and he's been doing this throughout South Carolina as the director of 721 Ministries. Dan, welcome to the Christianity in Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, Dan. It's great to be with great to be with you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, that's gonna be fun. Thanks for coming on. So first question I have for you to give us a little more background uh for those of our listeners who who aren't aware of of who you are and the impact that you're making, um how did you transition from renovating homes? Because you're uh you're a business guy, um, got an extensive, successful uh business background, renovating homes, but now you say that you've gone from renovating homes to renovating the lives of men. Um how did you make that transition?
SPEAKER_02Darren, I was before I started renovating homes, I was sub I was developing subdivisions, uh residential subdivisions in Greenville, South Carolina, and then I I sort of transitioned out of the that high-risk way to make a living, although I enjoyed it so much, into renovating homes. But in at the age of 38 in 1995, I was born again, and a few years later, I started doing a lot of Sunday school teaching at my home church in Greenville, but because I have so many friends around the state of South Carolina, I started being invited to speak at couples Sunday school classes, and and this these would consist of, say, 30 couples, and and back then I was in my 40s, so they would have all been about my age, plus or minus. And as I went into these classes around South Carolina, and I went to a lot of different churches, I would look out at the at the couples in the room, and I would see that the wives were paying attention, oftentimes taking notes. The men were not paying attention. And they you I could just read their minds. They didn't really want to be challenged that Sunday morning. They were just there to check it off the box. Uh Sunday school was supposed to just be a social hour with a little bit of a devotion or a teaching or something like that. They were they were more concerned about how they were going to get their family fed for Sunday lunch, what their tea time was afterwards. And it was crystal clear that these men did not have a clue that there was more to Jesus than good than just going to church. And as time went on, and I kept encountering this, I just heard the Lord say, you've got to tell them first that they are missing Jesus. They are what I call churchians, not Christians. They follow church, but they don't follow Christ. And then you've got to tell them that they're missing what's most important in their life. So as time went on, God started to close his ranks around me and open all kinds of doors, and men stepping up and saying, you need to be doing this full time. Uh I had an accountant who said, I'll handle all the 501c3, I'll handle all your accounting for free. I had a lawyer who said I'll handle all of the uh Secretary of State and the filing and all of those things for free if you'll just start doing this. And so in 2004, we started these men's groups, one in Greenville, one in Spartanburg, which is a sister city to Greenville. And the only thing I knew to do was just start meeting with men, three or four at the beginning, went to eight or nine, then jumped to 15, then to 20, then on, and then we added Lawrence, South Carolina, and then we added Columbia, South Carolina. These are all pretty much drivable distances. And we just get together, we don't actually go through, for instance, Ephesians and talk about each verse, passage after passage. We talk about things that apply to our lives, especially as men, and then we see what Jesus or the Holy Spirit has to say about it in the scriptures.
SPEAKER_01And it's safe to say that it being that this is a cross-section of men here, that most of these are probably business professionals. Is that right?
SPEAKER_02The vast majority are business professionals. They would be lawyers. It's hard to get doctors away from the office. They'd be lawyers, they'd be bankers, they'd be commercial real estate, they'd be business owners of all types. We have ages, Darren, that run from 25 all the way up to 85, but the but the probably the target market, if you if you were to approach it that way, would be somewhere between 45 and 65.
SPEAKER_01Now there's a powerful article that I would recommend everyone go check out at Christianityandbusiness.com that Sam uh recently contributed as a as a guest post. But uh in that article, Sam, you mentioned how if you were to ask these businessmen, uh generally speaking, businessmen, what are your priorities? They would probably say, oh, well, of course God is first and and my family, and then business comes after that. But but you're you're actually I mean, is that the case as you're um as you're walking with these businessmen and they're allowing you to take a peek into their lives, um what are you what are you seeing there? What are they missing?
SPEAKER_02Oh, I'll see I see without fail that when I when and I do a lot of those type of tests, um give me I'll I'll hand out an index card, or we have a handout, and I'll say, okay, now I want you to name your top three priorities. Or if you want to, name your top five priorities, and and they'll go through that exercise, and then I'll say, okay, now let's examine what you how you spent your time this week. You tell, you put a percentage by it, and they'll do that, and then they'll look up at me and one by one, practically without fail, there, and they will say, I am a hypocrite. Because I am no, there is no chance I'm living these priorities out. There's no chance. And and just to make sure everyone understands, we do not advocate you sit in a closet and pray and think your heavenly father's gonna run your business for you. That's not the approach we're taking. We know that's not the case, but the priorities in life that that are so mixed up from these men, it is leaving gaping holes in their families and in their children and their responsibilities. I see it without fail with men, and I see it with a lot of professional women as well that I encounter. They don't they're what they're missing, Darren, is first personally and individually, they're missing what's most important. They are putting the vast majority of their effort and focus into their work, and I would add community activities and even church activities, and they are not putting their focus on their marriages and on their children. That would be the first big missing it. They're also missing in in their own lives the a balance for their body, mind, and spirit. They are not exercising, they are not getting good sleep, they are not eating well, and they don't, because they are not doing this and have not been doing it for so long, they don't even understand what they're missing. And then you move to their employees, and therefore their focus is for their employees to get their individual jobs done, but they're not looking behind the curtain like I am and seeing the disasters that are going on in most of their employees' lives. Just about every man, and I don't meet with women one-on-one, but when I am in a circumstance like that, just about every person I meet is having problems from varying degrees of just starting to simmer as a problem to it's already an out and out disaster in their marriages, in their money, in their health, in their families. I see it over and over again.
SPEAKER_01So I'm I'm envisioning one of these men coming to you, Sam, and and saying, Sam, I want to I want my company to reach peak performance. And I I get the sense, if if this is a a business leader, that your response to that person would be, okay, well, well, we want to make that happen, but if you want to get there, you need to have a broader perspective what success looks like. And and that really begins with defining a personal mission statement for that person's life. Um how can uh and you talk about this as really being uh a cornerstone here, what uh how can someone define that personal mission statement for their life?
SPEAKER_02The first thing I ask people, and this is an Andy Stanley quotation, is where you're going, where you want to be when you get there. Is where you're going where you want to be when you get there. Because, Darren, everyone is is uh hurtling at light speed towards uh uh the future. And so often, we see the so often at 45 or 55, or someone gets to a point where and I see it and I see two different things happening. One, everything has gone right, relatively speaking, and they look around and they go, Well, there's gotta be more to life than this. Or something turns upside down, this marriage, this money, this health, and they ask the same question, there's gotta be more to life than this. And when they come and talk to me, I'll say, Well, let's start with you, and then we can start with your employees from a company standpoint. But the next question I ask them is, What are you going to wish you had made a priority? If you have the the advantage of being able to look back over your life and measure how you've lived your life. What are you going to wish had been your priorities? And let's take that and then let's combine it with what your responsibilities are, because we all have responsibilities. Let's ask the question out of these responsibilities and these roles that I play, which ones can only I do? I'm the only one that can be a husband to my wife, I'm the only one that can be a father to my children. I start there. Because if that's if I'm the only one that can do it, then I've got to make sure I've got my focus there. When it comes to work, what can I let someone else do and give them more leeway in what they're doing so that maybe I don't have to be the only one that can do that. But then I give them, I give them this idea of creating an index card. And I have an index card in my daytime that I carry with me everywhere I go. And on that index card, I've got my top priorities for my life, and then for 721 ministries, one on one side, one on the other. And I because I get I get invitations to do so many different things with 721 ministries, but my focus is men, the Lord made that clear to me back in 2004. So if I get invited, and I did early on, I did a lot of teenage groups, I did a lot of couples, but as I've gone through this ministry and tried to hone my focus, I if someone says, Sam, I'd like for you to get involved with this youth ministry, I'll say, Well, that's a wonderful thing, but that's not my priority. That's not on my index card. If someone were to come to me and say, Sam, I want you to want you to get involved with this community organization, I'd look at it and I'd say, Well, okay, that is part of my priority. But that might not be the best use of my time. Or the next question I'm gonna ask Darren is, what will I have to say no to if I say yes to this? Because men and women do not ask that key question, what will I have to say no to if I say yes to this? Because you're always gonna have to say no to something. And it if you don't think it through beforehand, you're gonna be saying no to your body, mind, and spirit, the balance of your health and what's going on in your brain and your relationship with your Heavenly Father, and then you're also gonna be saying no to relationships, and you're not even gonna be thinking that through. So that mission statement has got to first start with what are the areas of my life, my responsibilities that only I can do? What will I wish I had done when I look back over my life? And let me get started on that right away and start cutting out the things that are good, but they are nowhere near the best for my life.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Profound thoughts. And, you know, as uh as an entrepreneur myself, and I see this with other entrepreneurs as well as I'm sure you have, that we can so easily uh deceive ourselves into thinking that putting in that extra hour uh for the company is more valuable than taking the limited hours that we have during a day to spend with our family and just and just forfeiting it and giving it to the business. And I had a powerful realization of this as we talked offline. You know that uh uh Sam and I we just bought our bought a new house, and uh so as we were as we were moving out of our apartment, we have uh a three-year-old and a one-year-old. And we were moving out, I had gotten everything out, it was just an empty apartment, just kind of picking up the last few things, cleaning up. Uh so we get that security deposit back, right? And I was just sitting there, it was dark. Uh and I just I said, I can't I can't leave this apartment. Knowing my uh one of my sons was born in that apartment. Uh you know, both of my sons have been raised up until this point in that apartment. I mean the times that I've had with my wife there in this apartment. Uh but but I also ran my company out of this apartment. And and so it very interesting uh dynamic there. But as I went from room to room, I wanted to just sit and reflect. You know, I'd been working so hard to move everything out. Uh and I just sat down in each room just as I began to reflect on those memories of uh my son learning how to walk and just laughing together as a family and just silly times we've had. I mean, I was I just turned into this weepy map, just so grateful for those experiences. Uh but then an interesting thing happened. Uh I go and sit in the office. Now, you know, Sam, I'm I'm all about making an impact for Christ in the business world and and and on all of this, and great impact has been made through my ventures. And in fact, we've, of course, worked together on a couple of projects, and I know those are making a tremendous impact. And as significant as that is, when I sat in my office, uh the tears were not there to have the tears were there when I sat in my son's room. The tears were there when I sat in my in my bedroom and just reflecting on the experiences. And it just it just sobered me up to realize that I might think that extra hour is more important than than the family. Um, and certainly we have to do what we have to do to provide. Uh, but it just it I will never forget that experience is as long as I live, as I went and sat in each of those rooms.
SPEAKER_02That is that is a great example, Darren, of what's really what's most important and what you're gonna what these men and women are gonna wish they had made as their priority.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02As they look back on those times. I see it over and over. Men are see the the fundamental problem here is that that that the tangible reward comes from work. The tangible reward does not come at home. That's not tangible. It's long term, it's fruit that will last, but it's not tangible, and the rewards are very quick and very measurable at work. In addition to that, and I would use the word lazy, these people, these men and women, think they really are working harder, but they're just lazy because they're not working smarter. If they would work smarter and then look to their Heavenly Father to say, now I'm doing my part, but I'm gonna put what I know are your priorities as top priority, and I'm gonna work hard, and I'm gonna leave at a reasonable time and go home and do what I know I should be doing as a top priority. And I believe, Father, that you will look after the little details as I head home to do what's most important. Living a life where you work all the time just shows you don't have any trust in your Heavenly Father uh to handle some of the things that that he will handle if you'll make priorities, the things that are dear to his heart.
SPEAKER_01So true. So, what Sam, what impact you've you've been walking with so many men over the last you know, several years. Uh, what impact have you seen this make in a person's life where they just go from uh just just uh literally a life of deception and thinking that everything just revolves around work to where they stop and think, where do I want to be? Uh you know, is where I'm going where I want to be when I get there, you know, and defining that personal mission statement. What have been the fruit, the results of that kind of a decision?
SPEAKER_02Well, Darren, right off the bat, I'll tell you that I've I've watched men's lives when when they get their fo well, they find Jesus first. I have a sort of a saying that if you save the man, you save the marriage, you save the family, and I don't mean I saved the man, but when that man introduces introduced to Jesus and gets to know Jesus and Jesus moves in and changes his life, everything else is going to change. I mean, I I on just the tangible side, I've seen men lose weight, sleep better, cut way back on their drinking, if not cut it all the way out, uh redefine their day, their day schedules. What's really interesting, Darren, is I've had so many wives. I was sitting out on the beach down in Charleston a couple years ago, and a couple came walking by, and one of the men whom I barely recognized, but he had been to one of our events, uh, not just the weekly meetings, but some extra events that we'd done, and his wife, they walk, he walked over to speak to me, and his wife said, look, looked at her husband, and then at me said, This is Sam, this is a Sam, this is 721 guy. And then she looked, she said, Thank you. Thank you so much. I have a different husband now. And I have had that happen, I don't know if I would say a dozens, or if I would just say dozen plus plus plus plus plus times that you can ask the wife, have you seen a difference in your husband? And this this look on their face, Darren, this this uh this sense of joy and peace and tears come to their eyes and say, I have a different husband. I have a different husband. And I and our family has a different family, and I've asked children that and they just said, My daddy's different. And I've sat down with older men and said, You, you know, you only have a few years, your legacy is in the balance. And these sometimes these are very successful businessmen, and I'll say, Your business legacy is cemented, but what legacy are you leaving for your children and your grandchildren? Are they going to be able to talk about their grandfather or their grandmother and say, he or she changed? Jesus changed them. Uh so I see I see them going from a life that is scattered too busy. Busyness is Satan's number one weapon against all of us, Darren. Busyness. And I I imagine at a sales meeting, when he is finished concluding the meeting, he'll say, when they're leaving, he'll say, Now remember, if you can't make them bad, make them busy. I remember talking with a lawyer once, and he said, Sam, I when my children were young, I made the decision that I was going to work and work and work and and make a ton of money so that when I had made all that money, I could then spend time with them when they got into their teenage years. Well, we know who children want to spend time with when they're in their teenage years. He realized that he had lost the relationship, and by the time he had the time to spend with them, they didn't want to spend it with him. Number one, because they were teenagers. Number two, because they didn't even know him. And he looked at me with that look like I missed it. I missed it. I remember back when I was in my business and then during the construction, when I was in the real estate development, my daughter was very young. But as she got into elementary school and then middle school and then high school, I either went and had lunch with her every Thursday, or I, as she got into high school, I took her lunch and we would sit out in the parking lot and chat a little bit before she went back inside. I did it every Thursday, and I did not let I did not let the steel fabricator get in the way. I did not let the sheet rock. I did not let the roof or I said, I've got to leave right now. I'll be back in an hour. Sometimes they would look at me like I was from Mars, and I said, my daughter's expecting me. I'm going to be sitting down with her for the next hour. I'll be back. I have watched marriages change. I've watched families change. I've watched the actual physical aspects of these men change. They get in shape. They start sleeping better. They eat better. It's just an overall positive shift in their life when they start getting focused on first Jesus and then what's most important in their lives.
SPEAKER_01Wow. And I know somebody is is listening to this and thinking, well, you know, we need to reach out to our employees and our coworkers as well. So, you know, Sam, are you saying that this is probably what they're thinking? Are you saying that we just need to focus so much, you just leave work at work and and we do our we do our job, but really what's most important is uh taking care of our families and and certainly our families are uh are most important, I mean, next to our relationship uh with the Lord. Uh but but that uh what's interesting is that by doing the things that you're uh encouraging us to do, uh it's such an example. If you want to make an impact on your coworker, when they taught you leaving work early, or when they taught you uh making a decision to sacrifice uh some way that you could get ahead at work for your family, I mean, what kind of a message does that send to your coworkers or to even your boss? And what kind of conviction might they come under when they see the way that you honor your family, when they see the way you honor your wife, your kids? Uh I mean, that really is a more, I mean, how much more of an impact does that make than, well, let me just show how show how diligent I am by you know working 14-hour days, seven days a week.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, if you if you carry as a trophy that I'm the first one in the office and I'm the last one out of the office, you've you've got your priorities all mixed up. And if you are the type that works hard, and that's let's set the stage, you're someone who works hard, everyone knows you work hard, that you're responsible, that you're focused. So we're not talking about somebody being lazy, we're not talking about someone leaving the office office at three so they can just do nothing. But if you're the type of person, and that's typically who we're dealing with, talking to, that that is already working hard and is focused and is responsible, when someone sees you making your family a priority, your health a priority, your children a priority, it makes a big impact on them. I I've seen one one of the one of the things that we see happening uh in these men's meetings is is a man will make an observation, make a comment about something he did that showed a s a sacrifice of his time at work, not not his effectiveness, not his efficiency, but his time for his wife or his children. And I can see the the wheels spinning in the other men, and I've even had other men right there, be transparent, raise their hand and say, He's got something I don't have. And I want what he has. Because I'm I I don't have that. I've had men, I've had men stand up and and these are these are businessmen. These are some of this man I have in mind was a was a college athlete, and for a short period of time in the NFL, and he just stood up weeping weeping. He said, I have missed it. I am lost. I don't even know who I am. My my my children don't want to be around me. My wife is mad at me all the time. I'm drinking too much. I need help. And I watched that man, not that everybody, you take you make your own personal choice about whether you drink or don't drink, he quit drinking on the spot. He's lost about 30 pounds, his children, his wife, their entire demeanor has changed. Now, if I were running a company, I and I when I was running a company, if my employees were exhausted from not sleeping well, if one of them, and I learned this, if one of them was getting ready to go through a divorce, I might as well assign about a 50% production to him from that point forward for the next year or two. Because he's not going to be, he's not going to be focused, he's going to be distracted, his everything's going to be torn down in his life or her life. So if I'm if I really want peak performance for my employees, I'm going to invest in them and get them focused on what's most important. It'd be like having an athlete, one of your one of the one of the one of your basketball players, football players on your team, and not caring about whether they're in shape or not, or not caring about how much sleep they're getting, or not caring about the way they eat, or their own personal relationships. It all funnels back to peak performance. And if I'm if I'm looking at my own business, I want my employees in a balance of body-minded spirit so that they are performing at their peak when they're at work. Well, that's going to take the the investment in their own body-minded spirit and in their families away from work.
SPEAKER_01So let's say that I have uh maybe direct reports at work or I'm I'm the head of the company. Uh what can I do about this? Uh and I mean one thing that comes to my mind is not that this all has to get outsourced or that it or that it should get outsourced, but marketplace chaplains are a phenomenal uh way that that people I mean, uh if you're leading a company, to be able to have somebody, if there's a death in the family for one of your employees, I mean, these marketplace chaplains are on the scene. I mean, they're going to provide comfort, they're going to help with funeral arrangements, I mean, all those kinds of things that as you said, somebody goes through a divorce and now their productivity is cut in half because they're they're they're half dealing with their you know, with courts and emotional uh pain uh and loss, and and then the other half might be doing something at the job. But what are some of those practical things that a business leader could do in order to help their employees in this area?
SPEAKER_02Well, you you mentioned the first one was Marketplace Ministries of various types, corporate chaplains and those types of things. I have two business owners in in the city of Spartanburg, which again is a sister city to Greenville, Eric Faust at Custom Forest Products, and Peter Friesley at Polydeck. Polydeck is an international industrial screening company. They make screens for aggregates, uh, for mining, for diamond mining, and those types of things. And Peter Friesley is very focused on providing marketplace ministry for his employees and several other things that he's doing to invest in their lives. I mean, you walk, you walk into his company, and I spent a year there going once a week, and it you you say he's putting as much effort into their body, mind, and spirit as he is into the actual business production. It's not that way, but it certainly seems that way. Eric Faust does the same thing, and both of those men are involved, they're both company owners. Uh they're involved in an organization called C-12. You're probably familiar with C-12, where uh 12 business leaders form a group with C12 is a is a national ministry, business ministry, with a with an area director, and they meet once a a month uh for a period of time, and then they meet away from that once-a month group meeting with individuals to keep each other accountable for what they're doing. Uh so a company uh can get involved just in within their own structure and uh and pass that and and come in with these index cards that we talk about, with these uh challenges as to what's most important. There's there would be a lot of resources they could tap into if they just wanted to take that time to invest in their in that pro those programs.
SPEAKER_01Wow, such good examples. I mean, I I I was familiar with uh Peter and Polydeck in that example, and their caring committees, and I mean just the way that you mentioned the way that it would almost seem that they put as much priority on taking care of their employees as they do on the bottom line. Uh but but you know for them that is part of their bottom line, and they actually measure it. That's one of the wonderful things about it, is that in their in their staff meetings, leadership meetings, I mean, they're measuring the the extent. I mean, chaplain visits and uh they they have just so many different programs to uh uh whatever gets measured gets done. I mean, if it doesn't get measured, then it's not really a a priority. And uh and so you know, maybe business leader out there, what what could you do to help measure? And uh what Sam, you've been talking about this personal mission statement at start to have those conversations with your with your people and you know what is what is your personal mission statement? Um what is really most important to you uh not beyond just here at the company. Um so these are these are phenomenal examples. Uh well Sam, as we wrap it up here, I want to hear about the Pudding Green Devotional. I I know all about it because I helped to publish it. Um but it is a phenomenal book. Here we are in in uh uh golf masters season here. Um what is the putting green concept? And uh and then also let us know where people can find the book.
SPEAKER_02Well, if you go to puttinggreenblog.com, putting greenblog.com, you can do two things there. You can you can buy the first book or the second book. We just call it the Putting Green Devotional, Volume One and Volume Two. Uh you can you can also sign up for the weekly putting greens that go out every Thursday. And the uh the origin of that was Jack Nicholas was interviewed uh one time years ago, and and he was asked, how is it that you've won so many tournaments? And he said, Well, I figured out along the way that I could not stay hyper-focused for every shot I took. Now you have to stay focused because in a golf tournament, every shot counts from the time they start on Thursday to that last putt on Sunday, every shot counts. But he said, What I realized is that tournaments are won or lost on the green. The putting green. So I learned to take a moment before I stepped onto the green, gather myself, get hyper-focused because I was stepping up on the putting green where tournaments are won and lost. When I heard that, I thought, well, that is exactly applicable to business people, men and women. They spend all day in the fairway. The fairway is important. You can't blow the fairway. But by the time they leave the fairway and head home, they're head, they're stepping up onto the pudding green, where the tournament of life is won or loss. And they are arriving home unfocused, dazed from an entire day of investing in other people, their company, clients, employees, customers, and they come home to their family and they say, I need some me time. I'm tired. Y'all just leave me alone for a little while. They're not focused on what's most important, so they're losing the tournament of life. So we decided to call this thing that we put out each week the putting green, because it's intended to keep get you focused on what's most important. So typically the putting green each week is just a is just a summary of what I've talked about with the men around the state of South Carolina. And it it it addresses what's most important in life. So you can go to the putting green, putting green blog.com. You can pick up the first book, the second book, which we have found, and I wrote them, uh so when I say what I'm getting ready to say, it there's no there's no ego involved, but I'll get emails almost daily from men that'll say, I just read hole number twelve, because we set it up as a as a tournament, a four-day tournament with 18 holes each day, uh, eighteen devotionals. Number 12 is really great, Sam. I I'm I'm gonna take this to my Sunday school class and we're all gonna use it. And so I'll go back and read number 12. I'll say, that really is good. Who wrote that? Even though I I know that apparently at some point I did write it. But we have men using, men and women using these for their Sunday school classes, for their small groups, giving them away, uh at golf tournaments as presents over at Christmas and birthdays. Uh so that has taken on a life of its own.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Well, that is that is excellent parting advice there to really focus on the the it's not just the long drives of life that matter, but it's those, it's those short, those seemingly insignificant. You would think that the long drive matter counts for more than the putt, but it's it's one swing and they have they have the same amount of consequence in the masters, uh, and and certainly even more, more so in our personal lives. And I just absolutely love that analogy. And so the book is at puttinggreenblog.com and certainly on Amazon as well. Um, Sam, is there another piece of parting advice that you'd like to share before we sign off here?
SPEAKER_02I think I think just the best question to continue to ask yourself is where I'm going. Andy Stanley, again, is where I'm going, where I want to be when I get there. Because I watch men and women over and over get to a certain stage of life and they look around and say, This is not where I intended to be, because they didn't ask the question 10 years prior, is where I'm going, where I want to be when I get there.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_01Sam, thank you for this. This has been phenomenal. Appreciate you sharing your passion for uh for people, passion for the Lord, and for helping people to truly discover what matters most in life. Um may God continue to bless everything you're doing with 7213.