Welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast, an initiative of the RGW Dunham College of Business at Houston Baptist University. I'm your host, Darren Sheer, and this is a show that helps Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. To get more information about HW's Center for Christianity and Business, including the Christian Business Review Academic Journal, articles, videos, and news about upcoming events, by visiting our website at Christianityandbusiness.com. And now, on to today's interview. Today we're going to be discussing the topic of a biblical model for professional networking. And we're joined by Dr. Chip Roper. Chip is the director of marketplace engagement for the New York City Leadership Center, where he's building a bridge across the vocational divide, the disconnect many people live between their Sunday faith and their Monday reality. And speaking of networking, I got to meet Chip at a recent Faith and Works Summit in Dallas. And I had actually already known about the New York City Leadership Center because an organization I used to work with actually shares a building with Chip's organization. We didn't cross paths because he's got an office there in Manhattan. So he's, if you know New York City, he's right at Bryant Park, just by literally my favorite park in all of the city. But uh they're doing incredible work up there. Uh Chip comes at the workplace opportunity from a variety of perspectives, including his work as a small businessman, a pastor, and a career coach and consultant. And in addition to his director work, Chip writes for the blog MarketplaceFaith or pathos.com, is the principal of next chapter consulting and serves as a teaching pastor at Lower Manhattan Community Church. Uh his wife of 28 years, Audrey, they have three daughters, one still at home, and they live along the East River in Hunters Point, Queens neighborhood of New York City. Welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast, Chip.
SPEAKER_00Darren, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, so glad we got to reconnect. Um, you know, even after all those years of us being in the city and not crossing paths, I'm glad we were able to uh connect in Dallas. So why don't as we're diving into this topic of a biblical model of professional networking, why don't you give us a working definition of networking as you see it?
SPEAKER_00Sure, that's a great place to start. I mean, it's a pretty simple definition. Networking is the intentional process of expanding your circle of connections and relationships. Intentional process of expanding your circle of connections and relationships. And what we see is that people who are skilled at networking, they know how to identify and they know how to identify the people that they need to know and put themselves in the places where those where they will meet those people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I like that intentional part. You know, this is something that's very deliberate. So why do people well, I should say some people, why do some people cringe when they hear the word networking or hear about a networking event or somebody says, I'm gonna go do some networking. Why do why does that make some people cringe?
SPEAKER_00Well, if they're like me, it's probably because they're socially awkward. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um You're not socially awkward shit.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. Stop it. I'm not as socially awkward as I used to be. I think I mean some of us are shy, let's face it. And uh the idea that we're gonna be put on the spot and that we have to, you know, kind of make some kind of a pitch is uh just sort of unappealing. Um I think another reason, I mean it's always possible that certain networking events are just you know they're really not, it's all about the refreshments or something and there's not a whole lot of networking going on. Uh but probably more more often than not, it's because we're not prepared. And um you know when you're prepared to do something and you know you can do it well, generally you look forward to it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and I think that's where the people that are great at it, sometimes uh people can look at folks that are great at it and say, oh, they're just work in the room and you taking advantage of people or something like that. But some people just live for it. I mean, they just love going out and connecting when they just do it so naturally, and that can be kind of envia for a lot of us that are maybe more introverted. But so whether you're you feel like you're good at it or not, how important are good networking skills in today's marketplace?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think this is a critical skill. This is a best practice, uh, both for your professional development and your kingdom impact. You you you just can't underestimate the value of an expanding network. And I I'll share with you a couple different reasons and um some personal, some business case. Um But yeah, personally, so personally, I actually I came to New York in 2014. I didn't know anybody here. Um I my first round of networking was to find a job. Um and I just I lived about three hours away, so I would come up two or three days a week and network. And uh early on uh somebody told me uh when I was telling them what I wanted to do here, they just said, Well, I don't think you're gonna be able to get anybody to meet with you. And um so I just decided to start making some notes and keeping tabs, and I found out that in the first quarter that I was here I actually met 75 people. And that's that's grown to sort of a regular regular churn of meeting like a hundred people a quarter. And it's so it's doable, it's a doable thing. But I I don't think I could have gotten a job here, I don't think I could find the people to serve that I'm looking for, I don't think that I could find the funders I need to make possible what I do if I wasn't always networking, always expanding my network. So personally, it's been something that's just become a habit, and I'm actually become one of those people that looks forward to it. Um and I'm gonna go off a little bit on a tangent here, but when I go to an event where I'm trying to network, if I meet one or two people that I'm that I think, boy, that that conversation has some legs and it's gonna lead to something, I feel really satisfied with that. If I just practice my elevator pitch and telling people what I do and finding points of commonality, I f I call that a success too. Um so I'm not like I don't go to a network like a business card exchange and expect to walk away with 20 new clients kind of thing. And my expectations are one or two, good context, good presentation. But for me personally, that's the first thing I just wanted to say is that it's been huge. It's been it's a it's a centerpiece to what I do. I also think in our current business climate, and uh going for and it's not gonna change, it's only gonna become more of this as we go forward. I think we have a low trust business climate. Sure. And we also have a um you know an overwhelming you know amount of noise in terms of the things that are pitched to us, the advertisements we're exposed to, and that kind of thing. So when you combine lots of noise and low trust, who are you gonna do business with? You're gonna do business with the people you know and the people you trust. And so whether you're looking for a job or you're looking to hire or you're looking for clients and doing business development, um, or you just want to stay kind of at the cutting edge of what's going on in your industry, all those things are gonna come through personal relationships and intel. And uh it's it just seems like the business case for it is um is is very clear-cut. I have a friend who just transitioned jobs from a chemical comp from doing um data security at a chemical company to doing data security at a finance company. And the way he made that move was he a friend of his overheard the CEO of the chemical company saying, I don't know why we even have an IT data division in the elevator. So he got that important piece of Intel through networking. He then decided, I need to think about making a move because I'm not sure I'm gonna have job security here. And he he as he beat the bushes in his network, he found a parallel job in a different industry through a work group, a group of people in his discipline that he had, a professional group that he had hung out with. And so it's just kind of a perfect case of where he was apprised of the need to make a move and all the mechanics flowed through his networking. So it's really, really important from a business point of view.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. How long did you say you've been in New York City?
SPEAKER_00I've been here for two, two, two years, two and a half years.
SPEAKER_01Well that explained.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we that's that's why we didn't meet.
SPEAKER_01Yep, yeah. I left right before right before you came. So, you know, it and and and one of the reasons I asked about that is because New York City is uh a very interesting place when it comes to networking because I found that it tends to the people tend to be very transactional, uh or at least I should say the people, but the culture there is very uh transactional. And so whereas you know, you might be in kind of subur a suburban part of the country where going into a networking event and kind of being a little bit pitchy can come off in and totally the wrong way in New York City. It's very much part of the culture. People want to know who are you, what do you, what can you do for me, and and so let's let's kind of cut right to the chase. Have you found that to be true?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I definitely think it's true. You need you need to have a very tight bullet point summary of who you are and what you do. Um and there's times once you you know, either if you if you aren't able to do that, or you talk in paragraphs instead of bullet points, or if what if your bullet points don't really connect with the person you talk to, sometimes I'm sometimes they're scanning the room, you know, when you're halfway through your introduction. So there's definitely some of that. On the other hand, um it forces you to be really, really, really clear about who you are, what you're about, and what you're looking for.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I think that in some ways that's refreshing. Um you're not gonna have a 20-minute conversation with somebody and for the most part and beat around the bush. Like that just doesn't happen.
SPEAKER_01Well, you've studied the Bible from this perspective. What what are some biblical examples of networking done well in the Bible?
SPEAKER_00Oh, this is a great this is a great question because it's something that we're not even sure would even apply to networking, but it actually does. You know, but just back to that idea that people who are skilled in networking, they know they f they figure out who the people are that they need to know, and then they put themselves in the place where they'll get to know them. Um so that's you know that's what they're that's what they do. So it's an intentional process of expanding the circle. And yeah, I think about one of a great example is from Genesis 24. And in Genesis 24, uh Isaac commissions his servant to go find, or no, Abraham, sorry, Abraham commissions his servant to go find a wife for Isaac. And in the beginning of the chapter, he gives the servant all these instructions about where he's to go, where he's not to go. You know, you're not supposed to stay here in the land of Canaan, you need to go back to the land of our fathers and so forth and so on. He tells them how, you know, he's going to recognize the right person, who he should talk to, who he shouldn't. And then the servant goes and goes on the journey and goes to the place and interestingly enough, prays for favor, prays that God will bless this process. And then uh, you know, of course, lo and behold, he meets Rebecca and the whole thing spins out. But it's a very, very intentional process, like we said. Uh he has a focus in terms of the kind of person he's gonna one needs to go after. Then he acts on that focus and intention. I mean, he it's very, very inten it's very, very strategic what he does. And you know, it ends in a connection and celebration. It's really pretty, pretty textbook case. Um couple other you know examples of Jesus and John chapter four and the woman at the well, uh, he clearly was intentional about being there. Uh at he was there in Samaria, which is Jews didn't go there. He talked to a woman, men didn't talk to women. He was there at the middle of the day. And, you know, if you were part of if you're accepted in the polite society of village culture in that era, you would not be going to the well at the middle of the day. The only reason she was at the well in the middle of the day during the heat of the day was because she was an outcast. And so he was very, very specific. Yeah, it's all very intentional. He's in the place where he's gonna meet the person he wants to meet, and you know, and then she's the one that brings her whole village to Christ, uh, literally and spiritually, and so it's a very, very intentional process. And and just one final example would be the Paul Apostle Paul's strategy as he started churches around the Roman world. Um, first of all, he always went to cities, he didn't go to the country, because cities were where more people were concentrated because c and culture, cultural influence flows from cities outward, not from the country inward. And so he always went to cities, he always went to places where people were showing some kind of spiritual interest. Sometimes that was a synagogue, sometimes that was a place of prayer, sometimes it was you know the the spirit the marketplace in Athens. Uh but he always was always very purposeful about where he went, and he found people who were spiritually seeking, and he explained Christ to them. And so that's another example. Um I'm sure we could find some others, but those are three, you know, from both the Old Testament and the New Testament that just illustrate that this is a very common biblical practice. And I kind of boil it down to four things that there's a sense of intentionality, there's a you know, that leads to a focus area or space, and then there's the you act on that inform uh you act on that combination of an intention and a focus, and then there's some kind of connection and celebration at the end. It flows towards that. Yeah. And uh I mean, and you know, I mean, even just meeting each other and comparing notes and that's fun. It's there's a there's a joy factor in making those kind of connections when they're good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I know there's kind of a buzzword out there now, you know, serendipitous. And so when we have those serendipitous meetings out there, I mean that that's kind of what the the world looks at it as kind of coincidence, but you know, there's n there's not even a Hebrew word for coincidence. I mean, it's all God's providence and so just the way we connected. God God orchestrates the networking, and I was just thinking about how Jesus sent out the 72. And and basically it's like, go, you know, there's a there's an intentionality, there's a purpose for it, but you're basically gonna go house to house and go and go and connect with people. He didn't say only the extroverted people, or you know, he said go out there and and connect with people, you know, like uh the statement, uh, who was it that said walk walk across the room to um um Bill Hybels? Bill Hybels, yeah, just walk across the room. Walk across the room. And uh and so that's a great thanks for sharing those examples uh with us. So why don't you share some biblical principles for networking well? And specifically, let's say that Joe's about to go to a conference like the Faith and Work Summit or maybe an industry conference or something like that, and he wants to make some connections to help him advance his organization. What tips would you share with Joe?
SPEAKER_00Well, I actually I I kind of outline a four-step process that I coach people through. And the first step is preparation. Before you go, you should prepare. And so there's a prayer involved in that, which is the prayer for wisdom and discernment. You know, God, what what kind of what kind of context do you want me to pursue at this gathering or in this space? And um, you know, part of prepar preparation involves kind of am I looking for clients, am I looking for business intel? Am I looking for employees? You know, what am I looking for? Um, so that's focus. But you always need to do some research about who's going to be there and what's you know and what's going on. I think that um with the internet we can do tons of research about the whatever it is we're after. So if you're interested in working in a certain industry, so you're looking for a job, you can do lots of research. If you're interested in certain clients, you can figure out who those who are who typically are, you know, who are your best candidates for clients. You know, what are their needs? What are their kind of firms, if it's B2B, what kind of firms are they? That you know, that kind of thing. So the but the first area is praying for wisdom and discernment and having this sense of awareness and understanding. So when I came to New York, I was interested, one of the major areas I was interested in was the church slash Christian nonprofit space here. And I just did every I knew it. I knew all the major players that were before I ever set foot in the city, I knew all the big churches were, I had a lot of their staffs charted out. I d I really knew who was where and what was going on, and that really helps uh as you as you network in a space, uh, because then you know you can speak intelligently about what's going on, um, you can make connections between people on your your network map, that kind of thing. So that's the first step as well as that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that preparedness is is so key because and also being prayerful about it because you know we may find ourselves in a conversation that we totally could not have foreseen in that networking event. And it and it may not be that we may have kind of anticipated being able to kind of promote our company or something like that. And really it's it's an assignment that somebody maybe needs encouragement or something like that, or to to do something for somebody else and just to kind of prepare our heart for who we might who we might meet and and and to just get our marching orders from the Lord instead of just always kind of being in pitch mode.
SPEAKER_00Right. And I think that's and I think that's really true, and that flexibility is really important. And and and even even with that, we should still have our elevator pitch ready. You know, we should be able to say in 60 seconds who we are, what we do, what we're looking for. We should you should always have a business card. Even if you're a student, you should have a business card. Yeah, with your your name, with your LinkedIn profile on there, your email. Um because it and some people won't take your business card because they they'll just they just want an electronic connection. But the the idea of giving them a physical artifact that says, here's who I was, to remind them of your interaction, I think it's a really positive tool. So that those are just some ideas about um about preparation. The second phase is what I call initial contact. That's when you meet somebody either through some online connection like on LinkedIn or through a Facebook introduction, or you meet them at a kind of a mixing event. And uh there I think we pray for favor. Um and um, you know, it that's where we're just we're just making an initial contact with people. We we want to be able to have some sort of a be prepared with some sort of a follow-up ask. Even if you think even in that setting, but especially when we we get to sit down with people, which is phase three, but one of the underlying things that I think we should be really dialed into, and you mentioned you hinted at it in in what you just said, is the idea that we're not just there to get something, that we're there to love our neighbor. And these are new neighbors.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And um we don't know what that's gonna entail, but I could tell you right now, if you're networking with busy people that are sort of up a level from you, you know, on the organizational food chain, being prepared, like knowing who you are and what you want, actually helps them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, you know, have for forcing them to kind of help you figure out what you're trying to say is not really loving your neighbor. Um and it's we don't usually look at it that way, we just think, well, this is a business skill you should have. But you know, working with people who are busy uh CEOs and and and senior business leaders, their time is precious. And um when people have have their stuff together, it's a gift to them. Because then they can assess it quickly, they can they want to help you, they can point you in a direction and say, Oh, well, you should talk to so-and-so, or you should talk to so-and-so. A lot of especially, at least I find Christian leaders in business want to do that. Uh but we sometimes make it hard on them because we're not prepared. So, you know, the initial contact phase though is to pray for those favor and the those those openings. Something else you've mentioned, Darren, is just the idea of of this is hard for introverts, and it is. Um and I always test extroverted, so everybody's gonna discount everything else I say from here on. But I I actually don't like cocktail parties, I don't like meeting people cold. Uh that doesn't, even though I like to talk with people, I don't that's just a whole sort of scenario that doesn't really work that well for me. And one of the things that I found that does work well for me is introductions. And so I ask people I know to introduce me to people I want to know. And a lot of times it just happens in email. And I say, Hey, can you send me a quick email? And they'll say, Hey, John, I want you to introduce you to my friend Chip, and you know, Chip does this and you do this. I think it'd be great if you could talk. It's it seems like it's it's really, really helpful to have those introductions. It makes you it feels like the door is open. And it's it's a way for those of us who are a little more on the shy side to uh to get those intros. Another thing is just to go to structured environments. You know, you're talking about networking events that make us cringe, but sometimes they aren't going to lead you to any contacts. They just force you to do an elevator pitch, force you to introduce yourself, force you to practice giving your business card, and it really helps you loosen up a little bit and feel comfortable with it. So those are all things in the kind of making initial contact phase.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like Toastmasters. Look, we're all here to give speeches and practice our public speaking. If it's a networking event, look, we're it's it's okay to come and share. I mean, definitely do come and share because the the event is only as valuable uh to the extent that people exchange information about what they do and what they can offer. and and looking for those potential synergies with people.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And we're we're spending more time online. We communicate more through text texting and IM and uh messaging apps and email and we we can easily get out of practice with meeting people face to face.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so even if you're just going, not like there probably isn't good it's just your your chamber of commerce and they're having a business card exchange um and you don't none of no customers are interested in there or whatever. First of all, you still don't know there might be some kingdom opportunities like you were saying earlier to just pray for somebody or encourage them or whatever. You never know. Uh but the second thing in terms of yourself is but it's a chance to practice. Yeah. And I came to a round table here in New York every Thursday and didn't really lead to anything specifically for me. And I was a little bit of a different niche than most of the people there. But it was really good every week to have to go around the circle and practice my elevator pitch and for people to give me feedback on it and to get used to saying it and to tighten it up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What would you say to somebody that may kind of be in a place where they're just so taxed for their time and they're saying no new friends and they're not they don't really think it's all that valuable to to do networking to maybe go to some of those events or to to reach out to make those kinds of introductions. What would you say to somebody like that?
SPEAKER_00Well a couple things. One is we can never do everything all the time and when you're looking for a job for instance you tend to have more time and more urgency for networking than when you don't when you're not looking you know when you're busy trying to keep your job. So so I understand that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's just a matter of time. And um yeah I used to think in a very uh kind of compartmental way so like you know you do you dust off your resume you tune up your LinkedIn profile and you do networking when you're looking for a job. And um I find that the the friends I know who are in the headhunting career search space are saying no you you need to keep it always tuned up. And um and you kind of do. Because you just don't know what's going to I mean I I think the business climate, the business especially when you drill down into any a specific company or a firm, things change all the time and companies get bought and you know new management comes in. It's just it's it's perpetual whitewater as we say. So you you're gonna probably need it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Even if you're a quiet you know work work work at your screen kind of techie kind of person um still at the end of the day you're more like you're you're more likely to get hired by somebody you know in fact 85% of jobs are filled through networking. Yeah they're not they're not filled by people filling out applications online.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I was just thinking about the difference between these two guys that Jesus talked about the one who built the bigger barns and basically his mindset was I'm I'm just gonna store it up and and not worry about anybody else and just kind of take care of myself. And and so you got that guy and then of course he had that rude awakening when his life was demanded from him and and and then you've got the unrighteous steward that that marked down all of the uh those who are indebted to his master so that you know he would have who he would have friends in eternity. And and I think Jesus is saying don't be like that hoarder that you know you think you're all safe and secure you don't need people you don't you don't need more relationships or to meet new people and that kind of thing. But but but the right mindset is probably to have more of that that steward that uh he he Jesus you know the master said he was shrewd. And and so there's a certain shrewdness about networking and about ingratiating ourselves with uh with other people.
SPEAKER_00I mean I would say like if if I think that's really good. I wrote that down to Snail actually as another biblical example of of networking. And I think that to that person that thinks I don't have time, well maybe you know it's just yeah you don't necessarily need to go to that sort of general sort of chamber of commerce type of networking business car exchange but maybe there's like an industry association or an industry conference or something that's much more specific that's that's related to your discipline. And you just you need to go to that and you need to you need to build a little and that's a little bit more for you know inside intel and what's going on it's a little bit about more about skills development but um you know we many of us can we get to the point where we can really learn a lot from our peers and we can help them learn a lot too. So it's not always about making the next sale or getting the next job it's about garnering the next insight. That's right.
SPEAKER_01Well Chip this has been fantastic. Why don't you tell us a bit more about the New York Leadership Center and where people can connect with you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah well great so the the leadership center what we do is we connect leaders and we train leaders so they'll be more effective in seeing the gospel impact cities. And um my specific area of responsibility is called the Marketplace initiative. And so what really what I do is I equip people to live with a robust sense of calling in their daily work. And you have to turn their daily grind into a spiritual adventure. And um I do that directly and I do it indirectly. So directly I teach and I coach and I train and I do workshops and I organize a career change workshop here in the city and a number of other things. And then I do it indirectly by working with pastors and helping pastors understand the world of work and how they can equip their people for the space where most of their congregants are going to spend most of their time which is on the job. So that's that's kind of what I do. You know I I think the best place to connect with me would either be on LinkedIn Dr. Chiprooper or if you go to Pathios you can also subscribe to my blog and the blog is called MarketplaceFaith at pathpathios.com and uh so I mean there's Twitter at drchipperoper.com as well which yeah we'll have to but you can send all that stuff out but yeah that's what we do and um you know networking is a huge part of it in fact it's a really it's um networking really determines the case what we're capable of doing it there's a direct correlation we can't we're only as good as our network well said well that is a fantastic parting piece of advice and I love the statement about what you guys are doing turning your daily grind into a spiritual adventure that's what it's all about well Chiv thank you for sharing your time wisdom and expertise with us and may God continue to bless everything you put your hand everything you put your mind to there with the New York Leadership Center your consulting practice and beyond awesome Darren pleasure to be with you we hope you've enjoyed this episode and if so we would greatly appreciate it if you'd leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity in business podcast on iTunes get more information about HIV's Center for Christianity and Business at Christianity in business dot com.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for listening and keep integrating biblical value into your business