Today we're going to be discussing the topic of the Christian Leaders' Worldview. And we're joined by Michael Lapierre, author of the book The Christian Leaders Worldview, a framework for successful leadership and living. He's the founder and current president of Christian Leadership Worldview International. You can go check that out at CLWI.org. And over his 32-year career, Mike has worked with top-tier companies ranging from Fortune 50 to Fortune 500 organizations. He's a former minor league baseball player. His executive experiences include vice president of sales, director of sales and marketing, and many others. He's very active in his church and his community, and he's just really got a passion to equip Christian leaders to live out that Christian leadership worldview that we're going to talk about here today. So welcome to the Christianity and Business Podcast, Mike.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, Darren. It's a pleasure to be here.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Well, I just shared a brief background about you, but tell us a bit more about your background and what inspired you to dive into this topic of the Christian leaders' worldview.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that leadership has always been something that I've been interested in. E even as an unsaved uh human uh being, I have I've always been fascinated with what motivated leaders and it it and and what what was it about their charisma and and their ability to lead people? And I I studied it uh in college, I studied leadership, but it was all more in in just the knowing of leadership, knowing about you know, sort of those checklist items. Uh but but when I got saved, uh all of a sudden my perspective, I still had the same passion for understanding the dynamics of leadership, but of course, all of a sudden now uh I I have this Bible filter that is a part of of this understanding. And so it it became much more of an action-oriented filter for me compared to simply knowing the characteristics uh and the traits of leadership. And and and I probably could could best explain it with a baseball analogy because I'm I'm just a a jock by nature. I'm uh you know, I'm somebody that's uh an athlete and and and I think a lot in athletic terms. But when when I was at playing minor league baseball, you know, I y there's the those in the stands that are watching the game. Um and and they're watching and and they go game after game after game and and they understand the game of baseball very, very clearly. They can talk a wonderful game of baseball. Uh and but yet it's not until you move into the realm of baseball that you begin to uh get the mastery of baseball. So you move from the stands and then you get in the game. And and so my my perspective of leadership went from one of as a non-Christian, one from observing, understanding the knowledge of leadership, to now uh as a Christian, I need to get in the game and and experience Christianity and and walk the talk.
SPEAKER_01So why don't you go ahead and define for our listeners what is what is a Christian leadership worldview?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it it and I'm gonna bring you back to to the filter um because uh as as we walk through life and and whether it's as a parent or as an organizational leader, uh in in my case, you you had mentioned a few of my background, whether it was a baseball looking at it now, uh an athletic realm or an organizational realm in a Fortune 50 company, you know, we have to exude a Christ-like behavior uh in in our fields of endeavor and in our lives in general. And so so in a sense, and and I hope this doesn't sound too irreverent, but we need to strap on our faith. Um and and so I've I've really seen um and there are many, many vocal and active Christians and Christian leaders uh in the world, and and you know, they're just very talented people. But at the same time, as I've gone through this last 30 years uh in the business world, especially, I I've really seen um the need to challenge people who are Christians that decide to go to work every day and um really it take a passive view of of what it means to be a Christian. So you know for me, you know, having a Christian leadership worldview is be willing to be bold uh in the workplace or be willing to be bold in in local town and city organizations or or wherever you may be, it's it's being having an activist mindset and being willing to share Christ in every situation. And and that's what uh that's what that means to me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I like how you define it in the book. You said that Christian leadership uh is defined as the thoughts, desires, passions, and actions of Christian men and women by the leading of the Holy Spirit and under God's control for selfless ends. Because, you know, as leaders, we're everybody has a worldview, and because there's a certain grid, there's a certain filter to use the term that you used, through which we we approach uh the leadership challenge and the way that we approach business, the way that we approach the nonprofit world. And and so I I like this definition that you're using. How would how would a person know if they are or are not operating with a Christian leadership worldview?
SPEAKER_02The best way I I can describe it, um, and and I'll give you my personal example of I I was a passive Christian leader in my twenties and in my 30s and and really uh into my into my early forties, where I would go out into a situation, um, and and let's use the workplace as an example because that's where we spend 10, 12, 14 hours a day sometimes. Um I I would be in the workplace and I would be making decision after decision, uh whether it was human resource related or uh global strategy decisions, uh that's that's what I did at uh my my former uh position uh was I was a global strategist and and I would make decisions uh but I would make them in the flesh. I mean I would make decisions uh every minute of every day without a God consciousness. And so at the end of the day, in early on in my my life and in my career, I just realized that there were so many things being done uh in the flesh, and I did not have that God consciousness that I needed to have. And and then as I as I matured just a little bit, not a whole lot, but just a little bit, I realized the dramatic need and and just the the the burden to have a God consciousness throughout the day uh in the workplace, as as the example that we're talking about. And so when you do that, all of a sudden now uh as a leader, um integrity, morality, ethics becomes critical. You know, all of a sudden now uh who you are as an individual, the authenticity becomes critical uh as you lead. Uh and all of a sudden now you you're you're leading for a cause much greater than yourself. You're leading for the cause of Jesus Christ. And then when you lead, you're not leav leading from a passive perspective, where you're to to go back to that baseball analogy, you're in the stands, you're leading from a very activist perspective. Uh you want to impact uh people and you want to impact decisions for Christ. And so that's that's how I I look at leadership as it's developed and as I've matured, it's gone from passive to very, very active.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, it's probably uh easier for us to point to maybe some negative examples in the world, you know, because often those are the stories that make the news of the leadership failures. But uh, what are some positive examples from today of maybe people who are really demonstrating and living out this Christian leadership worldview or this God consciousness, as you put it, as they approach the decisions that they have to make in the workplace?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, a great question and and one uh that that I see often, but yet it it gets unreported. Uh so now that that I've stepped up my commitment to being a leader and being a leader out front, I have uh truly come across the come across some marvelous Christian men and women that understand this concept. Um that that understand in within the UPS, and I'm gonna use UPS as an example, there are a plethora of good Christian leaders, born-again believers uh that know Christ is their savior, that work in an organization that attempts to be politically correct. And and you know, they they they walk the tightrope. But yet um but yet uh they are uh and I found uh more recently that they are dedicated to doing things for Christ. They not only, you know, is it the doing the right moral thing or doing the right ethical thing in the business world, but you know, they are starting to be more bold. And I I I looked, I I really do want to share one example with you. So while I was at my last place of employment, we started a mentoring program, a leadership mentoring program, and I was able to participate in the creation of that, and uh was able, my first two uh people, individuals, employees that I mentored, uh I used an eight-week program that was full of scripture, full of Bible-based leadership concepts, and uh what a wonderful thing. And and the people that I mentored thanked me, couldn't thank me enough for my boldness and my willingness to to step out and be a leader. So but so so there are examples uh you know all over the place if you look for them. Uh they don't they do not get reported, uh, but you know, people that lead as Christians uh are are are making some headway. And and then and Darren, I quite frankly, you know, I I'm going to compliment you know the the your organization and others out there like yours who are really determined to to draw attention to what we need in organizational settings, whether it's entrepreneurial or a corporate setting, uh you're drawing attention to that. So uh I thank you for that.
SPEAKER_01I appreciate that. What are what are some of the the obstacles, some of the barriers, because it that that worldview, you know, when we become born again, you know, our spirit is reborn, but our mind has to be renewed on a daily basis, I mean really on a moment-by-moment basis, so that when that when that challenge comes, that we have the right, we have the right filter to approach the the situation. What are some of the things that you find tend to distort that worldview or maybe kind of cause people to shift over? You know, one of the the worldviews that I see really kind of imposing itself on a lot of believers is this sort of secular humanist worldview that just really kind of drives God out of the uh out of the picture. Um what what are some of those obstacles and things that kind of distort that Christian leader's worldview?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it I I've thought about this issue uh uh a lot, uh the the whole secular humanist relativist uh mindset where you know they are not concerned with absolute truth. And and they've been very clever, the secular humanists, uh, over recent times where that they're allowing you know the morality and the ethics in one bucket, and the and the legal considerations in one bucket. But what they've done is it's very cute, is they'll say, well, we're gonna we're gonna put just for a moment, we're gonna put integrity over here. So you know you have morality and and and all of that over here, but integrity we're gonna put off. And we're gonna define integrity as you know, there's there's not any absolute sense. You know, there's no wrong or right. It's just your integrity is based on what you think is right.
SPEAKER_01Be true to yourself.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that be true to yourself, and and what it does is it chips away at the foundation, our Christian foundation, if you allow that that kind of stuff. So then secondly, what they would do, uh in the Webster's dictionary, when you talk about uh integrity, it talks about the the quality or the state of being complete or being whole or being unbroken, and we would, you know, we would nod as Christians, okay, that that's fine. And then we would say, you know, the quality, you know, the next definition, the quality or state of being uh unimpaired, in perfect condition. But what the secular humanists will do is, well, we're just going to not talk about the third definition. And that's the the quality or state of being of sound moral principle. So you see what it see I'm going back to the buckets that they're going to put morality and ethics in one bucket, they're going to define integrity in another bucket in a different way. That's it that's just so wrong, but yet they're chipping away, if they can get people to believe it, they they're chipping away at the foundation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think that I mean, because it's a worldview, it's not like it's not something that you you need to turn on, turn off. I mean, it's it's one complete worldview. I mean, you are the same person with your family as you are at work and and as you are at church, and and so it's really about being a a whole person and and taking that Christian worldview into your workplace and not saying, okay, well, here's here's the place where we just compete in business. And so it's like, you know, there was an article that came out in the Harvard Business Review back in the 60s where the author was basically arguing that business really ought to operate like uh like a poker game where you're not you're not trying to help the other people at the table win. I mean, you're bluffing, you're you know, you're doing whatever you have to do to win. And and it's not a you know, forget about service, forget about trying to help the other guy or not cutting corners so that you can, you know, or bluffing and all of those kinds of things. But when you're when you have a Christian worldview, a Christian leadership worldview, you have to be the same person at church as you are at home or and at the workplace.
SPEAKER_02You're right on the money. Uh and I would add to your comments that in the workplace people are so consumed with short-term results, number one. And then number two, they're consumed with acceptance and and the need to get ahead. And what h often happens is those results and and the need to be accepted uh put you in a position where you're less than a person of integrity, of moral and ethical character, and there there's temptation to uh let's say cut corners or or do things that that get you ahead. And but yet, you know, to your point, if like the Apostle Paul, we are willing to die to ourselves daily, and we are willing to put on the mind of Christ and be true servant leaders, I think that that God consciousness will allow us to sides sidestep the need for short-term results and the need for acceptance. And so those are those are some things that I encourage people to do is before they walk in, you know, that those steps between the car and your office and and where you're sitting are very, very critical steps. Um you know, the prayer and the and the meditation and the focus on Christ during that time and the preparation to put you know really asking God, please, Lord, please allow me to serve you today, uh, I think is is so vital.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I love that that practical advice. What are maybe some other things that people can do to cultivate this Christian leadership worldview as they uh go about their work day?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and so we we we know that we're to die to to ourselves, to the flesh. We know we know that that we are to to put on the mind of Christ. Uh we know we're that we need to be prayer warriors in the workplace. And uh and then you know, it's funny, this this whole concept of of God consciousness, it's an awareness. I mean, and whether you call it prayer or meditation, you know, even as we're working, even now as as you and I are talking, Darren, you know, isn't there opportunity to have a God consciousness? And and yes, we we are talking about spiritual things, but just just knowing that our Savior is right here with us uh is so, so powerful uh that that that just keeps it in perspective for me. So uh I'm gonna really lead you back to the power of prayer, the power of meditation, uh, and the power of just staying focused on Christ every second of every day. Um and and that's that's a tall order, no doubt, but um it'll draw you closer to Christ and it'll help you make decisions in the marketplace and the workplace that are of long-term value.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I love that, you know, because your your your your worldview, you know, it's like I just took my car to the car wash earlier today because it was just filthy. And and you know, just driving out of the the parking lot there, I mean I had a nice clear windshield, you know, where it I don't have the safety issues of having too much dirt or too much grime on the on the windshield, you know, it's like that's what prayer does, I think, is it is it it helps to clear that windshield so that we can see clearly, so that we can make decisions uh clearly. And it's not clear unless we have God's perspective on it, you know, because otherwise we're left to just make decisions based off of fear, based on you know what seems to be uh popular in the trade journals or you know, all any other host of things that can shape our worldview.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and to your to your point, it if we go to work like the unsaved and we don't think about spiritual matters, any anything spiritual, yeah, we're we're no different. You know, we're we're we're operating from the flesh, we're operating from a human perspective, and we need to change that um dramatically. And it and it's very, very exciting. Um it's when we do it and we see the the fruit and we see the results and we see the impact in other people's lives, it's so rewarding. Not not we're doing it because of the rewards, but God bless. us when we step out by faith and and live a a righteous and holy life before him in the marketplace.
SPEAKER_01That's right. So you've written this book, The Christian Leader's Worldview, which is a framework for let me get let me get the rest of the the the title here. It's a framework for successful leadership and living. Tell us about that book and uh and where people can get a copy of it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah the book it is really captures of my experiences in life right from the baseball through corporate America through the ministry. And I wanted to tackle just a variety of different topics. I wanted to capture everything from athletics to to organizational behavior to um homeschooling and I really wanted to think through you really do a deep dive and think through the some 55 different topics and say how should a Christian think about this? So what I'm trying to do on the one hand I'm I'm trying to inspire people to really think through as as believers the relevant issues that pass our desk each day. But number two, I'm hoping and praying that people that are you know on the edge who haven't accepted Christ will see a perspective and they and the Holy Spirit will also challenge them to make a decision. Because I I truly believe that that decision of course is the only decision that that people when they hear about Christ they have to wrestle with it.
SPEAKER_01They they have it's the only thing in absolute terms that they will ever have to wrestle with and then of course that's their eternity in heaven or an eternity in hell absolutely and and it truly is a framework as you said in the in the subtitle and you know going back to my question earlier about what's something practical that a person could do to help cultivate that that framework that that worldview is to get a copy of this book and and just dive into these principles and and you know just full disclosure here my company published this book so I'm very familiar with the content and I can tell you that it's it's an incredible book and and it's not there it definitely has a focus on kind of uh leadership in a professional setting but there are significant portions of it that focus as well on leading in the family leading in the home uh leading in the community leading in society because again you know the this Christian leader's worldview is not something that you just sort of compartmentalize like it's only applicable if you're on staff at a church you know heaven help us if that's the way that we approach our workplace in our in our home life and and so I love what you've done here it's a it's an extremely practical book um very well organized so people can uh get a copy of that book at CLWI.org and and uh tell us also about your your speaking and your organization uh Christian leadership worldview international yeah thank you um so so what we do is we we travel the globe uh when asked and we do leadership training and development seminars and we do it from a Christian perspective now um Christian organizations will invite us in and we will just be very you know very bold of course and use scripture and and talk about you know the Holy Spirit and and talk about leadership principles from that perspective but what I've also found and God has opened a tremendous number of doors is that I'll go into non-Christian organizations where I'm teaching Bible principles.
SPEAKER_02So for legal reasons I've been asked to to back off the the scripture references but the principles themselves are Bible principles and I I have been so amazed how God will use that after a meeting um and and it happens every time that I speak someone will come up and say I I know you're a Christian and then they will share uh something and I and I'd like to give you an example I I I spoke at the the Chamber of Commerce in Greenville South Carolina and I I I did a a leadership talk uh on you know the value of you in being a sales leader and at the end of that talk I had I think a half a dozen people want to speak to me and and one gentleman says Mike I know you're a Christian I have a a son that's also a baseball player and he's struggling would you mind meeting him and so two days later I'm having lunch with uh a a young man and we're talking about baseball but yet more importantly we're talking about Jesus Christ. And so whether it's the Greenville Chamber of Commerce or Fern University or whatever the the the organization is that is a non you know Christian or non-religious organization if you want to call it that God will open doors in in just tremendous ways to allow the principles of leadership from a Bible perspective to be heard. I truly believe that.
SPEAKER_01I love that I love that well why don't you leave us with a parting piece of advice what would you like to share with our listeners as we sign off here.
SPEAKER_02Well um you you you stole you probably stole my thunder a little bit and I I I'd like to people to contemplate uh uh uh just the definition of leadership the thoughts desires passions and actions of Christian men and women by the leading of the Holy Spirit and under God's control for selfless ends and when you think about that it it's not trying to explain the mysteries of the Bible but what I've worked hard at and each each one of those words are are purposely written in that statement you know it it talks about God's sovereign control but it also talks about man's free will you know one of the mysteries of the Bible it talks about the Holy Spirit talks about God it talks about the selfless nature for selfless ends meaning Christ so the mystery of the Holy Spirit but also in that definition it talks about the actions of men and women they need to be action oriented for the cause of Christ and then again the selfless ends really our need to be true servant leaders in the shape and the form of our Savior Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_01Well said well the book is powerful definitely go and uh pick up a copy at CLWI.org. You can also get that as a paperback hardcover or ebook at amazon and and that'll really kind of allow you to taste and see what Mike has to offer with his speaking and his coaching and the seminars that they're really doing internationally. And Mike thanks so much for coming on the Christianity and business podcast share your valuable time and expertise and may God just continue to bless you as you bring this message around the world.
SPEAKER_02Darren I I hope I've encouraged one in your audience today. I I really thank you for the opportunity