Well, today we're going to be discussing the theme of becoming spiritually influential at work. And we're joined by Bill Peel, who is the founding executive director for the Center for Faith and Work at Laterno University. And if you probably recognize that name, Laterno University, which was founded by R. G. Laterno, the great man of God industrialist and inventor actually talked about him back on episode 13 of the Theology of Business Podcast. But Bill is the founding executive director of this center there at the university, which was created to help Christians understand their work's importance to God and experience Christ's transforming presence and power in every workplace in every nation. And for more than 25 years, Bill has coached thousands of men and women to discover their calling, grasp their significance to God's kingdom, and become a spiritual influence in the workplace. And he's an award-winning author and co-author of seven books, which have actually been published in multiple languages, multiple languages, and it's including Workplace Grace, What God Does When Men Lead and Discover Your Destiny. And he's just put out some incredible content, been able to connect with uh what the center is doing through social media and and they're they're doing amazing work. Uh Bill, thank you for joining us on the Theology of Business Podcast.
SPEAKER_02Darren's great to be with you this morning. And uh we really appreciate your your contribution to this area of faith and work integration as well.
SPEAKER_01Well, we've got it, we've all got an important role to play, and you know, at least in in America, I mean we've got 156 million uh people that that need the love of Christ, and and so it's gonna take a lot of people uh to make this happen and across the globe as well. Well, tell us a bit more about your background and what inspired you to dive into this topic of becoming spiritually influential at work, which is a topic that you've written at length about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, Darren, I'm uh by training a a theologian. I have a master's degree in theology from Dallas Theological Seminary and a doctorate from Gordon Conwell. And uh so it's it's been an interesting, interesting journey. I certainly didn't start out believing that uh that work really mattered to God. In fact, I thought of it just as simply something people had to do to earn a living and to, of course, they need to make money so they can support, you know, you know, God's real work. And uh I it was wasn't six weeks after I I graduated uh from uh seminary years ago with a master's degree that a fellow sat me down and he told me, he said, Peel, you realize God's heroes don't stand behind pulpits, don't you? Now he wasn't uh criticizing pastors there at all. He was just reminding me that what happens to the pulpit really needs to be geared toward helping people that are out on the front lines uh in the in the culture, in the workplace, uh really understand what the scripture means to their lives on from Monday to Saturday. And that was really the beginning of of my uh my journey toward understanding a biblical theology of work. Now it took a few years, but uh in uh about eleven years later in 1987, I uh made a jump to uh discipling people full-time in the workplace uh to make whole life disciples, not just you know, not just talking about people's devotional life or their family life or their church life, but you know what faith really looked like uh between Sundays from Monday to Saturday, especially since most folks spend that time in the workplace, what's that actually look like uh for for people that uh you know spend forty to sixty percent or more of their waking hours i in the workplace?
SPEAKER_01Well, and I love that that advice and that really admonition uh uh uh from the man who said that you know that God's uh God's heroes don't stand behind pulpits. And obviously there are great heroes of the faith that have stood behind pulpits, you know, we think Billy Graham and and others, but but usually when when you hear a pastor start to talk about, okay, the heroes of the Christian faith, you know, it's it's D. L. Moody and Hudson Taylor and those that uh that devoted themselves to a form of ministry that we traditionally think of as ministry, uh, but it's guys and and women like R. G. Laterno and and others and John Wanamaker who have have really stepped forward and said, you know what, if we're gonna make an impact for the kingdom, we're gonna we're all gonna have to play a role in that.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, Darren, that's a that's exactly right. Uh I don't know if uh most people ever thought about this, but actually about 75% of the people that we call heroes of the Bible, actually characters you know that the Bible introduces to, made their living, you know, out in the in the real world, not in a not in a uh uh church or synagogue or whatever, but uh they made their living in the in the marketplace, basically. And you're right, R. G. Laterno had had a very interesting uh faith journey. He became a Christian when he was a teenager and but didn't dedicate his life fully to Christ until he was in his twenties, and he was a businessman at that particular point. And his sisters had gone off to China to be become missionaries there right after the Boxer Rebellion in the early 1900s. And so they were like, I mean, serious green berets for Jesus out there uh in that place. And so Mr. Laterno, when he dedicated his his life to Christ, uh went to his pastor and said, Okay, I'm I'm all in here. What does that mean? Thinking that he was going to become a missionary or a pastor or an evangelist. And after they prayed, his pastor told him something very important for his life and for the rest of us as well, uh, that God needs business people as much as he needs pastors and missionaries. And so Mr. Lutrino said, okay, if that's what God wants me to be, that's uh that's what I'll be. And the the rest is is somewhat history. Not only did he found this incredible university, uh this polytechnic engineering university in in Texas, which produces to this day outstanding engineers, but his inventions uh went on to help us win World War II. He provided 70% of the heavy earth-moving machines that uh the CBs and the Corps of Engineers used in World War II. And also uh it was his machines and inventions, his 300 or some patents, that actually helped create the highway infrastructure of America in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. And so we all benefit from Mr. Laterno's vision to follow Christ in the workplace. And so, you know, for the next 60 years after he made that decision, you know, he was working to figure out what it really meant to follow Christ there and to dedicate his life uh and business to God and make God his business partner.
SPEAKER_01And we need more of these examples of marketplace and workplace Christians who are being spiritually influential, not just from behind a pulpit, but actually out there in their workplace. And, you know, Jesus said that when a student is fully trained, he will be like his teacher. And, you know, I went to seminary as well, and one thing I noticed in seminary is that the professors are are trying to reproduce other professors in in many cases, and it's like that's the ultimate for a professor is to know that their student went on to get a PhD and then went on to go and teach in a in a great university. Well, what about the rest of the population? And and our pastors, in many cases, uh they're they're making disciples, and so a disciple is one who becomes like the teacher in in many ways, and at least their expression of a Christ follower. And so we need more of these workplace examples for people to follow.
SPEAKER_02Well, Darren, you're exactly right about needing more examples. And um actually, you know, I've been very encouraged over the last few years to see uh that pastors are beginning to understand and wake up to this. Um when you we used to, oh, I'd say ten years ago even uh in the group ask, have you heard, you know, people, have you heard of you ever so heard a sermon on work? And uh uh, you know, uh just a scattered few would raise their hands, if any at all. But today that's just not the case. Um we've done some research on this lately, and and there is a huge uptick in pastors that are beginning to pay attention to this. And it but it's not just preaching about work that's important here, it's actually as as you mentioned, you know, putting examples up and letting people see things. Uh a businessman t uh years ago told me that, Bill, you know, it's people don't just need to hear about what what this looks like. They actually need to see it in other people's lives. And so one of the things we've tried to do at the Center for Faith and Work is to uh shoot some short video stories of people actually uh talking about what it means for them to do business for the glory of God. And we have a number of these on our our website that are just marvelous. They're short so they can actually be used in different settings, even in a in a sermon if people wanted to uh if a pastor wanted to show this or in uh small groups or in Sunday school classes or whatever. But uh some wonderful examples uh that uh that that we've been able to find of what it means to run a business for the glory of God and do business for the glory of God. So we're we're we're excited about that, and uh we're excited about the progress that the church is making here in this area.
SPEAKER_01I love that. You know, and it's not about us trying to say, Pastor, you need to become super pastor. And and I think that when we talk about tent making, sometimes uh you know, maybe pastor could get the idea that, okay, they're already running a church and now they need to go and run a business at the same time and basically sort of become, you know, super pastor. And and so, you know, it's that's not necessarily what it's about from my perspective. It's it's about letting people share testimonies from the workplace and from the marketplace about how God is moving uh through them in order to make an impact in the workplace. And it's not about saying, you know, Pastor, you need to be become more of a business person so that you can relate more uh to business. You know, that might be be part of it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, it's it's amazing when you actually get out there and and spend a little time with people in business. They they face a lot of the same struggles. Uh businesses face a lot of the same struggles that uh churches do. They have a little bit different bottom line, obviously. But uh it's it's you're still running an organization. One of the things that, you know, I I I think I almost accidentally fell into just because of my personal interest was uh at least once a week uh going to lunch with a a a business person that was in my church when I was working in churches. And I would uh ask them if we could meet, you know, uh that I could actually pick them up uh at their place of business. So I could see where they worked. And uh it always led to some fabulous uh conversations about you know how faith really impacted them and what their struggles were. And so that's something pretty easy for a pastor to do uh to gain more uh some more insight into uh what what their congregation is actually facing during the week uh as far as applying biblical truth to their Monday through Saturday world in a significant way.
SPEAKER_01I love it. Beautiful. So we're talking about what it means to be spiritually influential at work, and we've been talking about how we need more examples of what that looks like, but but what does it mean to be spiritually influential at work and and what is spiritual influence in the workplace looked like in your own journey as a marketplace Christian?
SPEAKER_02Well, it's it being spiritually influential is is very simple. It means uh letting Christ live his life through you, and that actually begins with uh with your personal relationship with Christ and realizing, first of all, that he's as Lord of the workplace as much as he is your place of worship, and that he shows up there uh before you do. And the very fact that it can be a place in this world and you can carry on business is because Christ is sustaining the world and making it making it all possible. So that's kind of the first step. And so you walk into your your workplace uh abiding in Christ, and you become if if that is if that's who you are, uh and you carry uh that awareness of Christ in your life and in that in your workplace into the into your work into your work, it can't help but affect the way you actually do your work, relate to other people. And so being influential, quite frankly, is just letting people see um you know what see to let them see Christ in your uh in in your life. And so that's kind of the basic, the most simple uh explanation of that, but it it involves uh you know a a lot of different things as well. Uh you know, if you're if you're a business leader, it means, you know, how you treat people, how you uh uh the products and services that you make. Is this something that you know really serves people and uh and uh creates value and worth for the community you live in? Um are you uh are you making ethical decisions uh that honor Christ? Are you thinking about the you know how uh how you can serve the community beyond the core business that you have? And so there are all kinds of uh ways that that you know that that that works its way out. And most of the time when we think about being spiritually influential, we we think about evangelism in the workplace, and that's certainly a a big part of that. Um the the character of Jesus Christ is um is awfully attractive to people. But there's there's something that um uh that's even more important than that if you want to influence other people uh specifically for for Christ and and that and and uh spur their spiritual interest, and that is the how you actually do your work, the quality of your work is incredibly important to God and to other people. In other words, if if we want people to pay attention to our faith, the first thing we have to do is to pay attention to our work. Um Paul says in uh in Ephesians and Colossians that we're to do our work with all of our hearts, to put ourselves into it, to in other words to be to do the best work possible, uh as if you know we're we're actually presenting this to God, which we are actually. And uh so obviously he deserves our best efforts there. Uh and so that starts that way. And then when people see the quality of our lives and the um and the Christ-likeness of our character, when competence and character go together, it really produces an authority for our words as we uh as we relate to other people. And then lastly, I would ask and one more kind of part, which is this this foundation of spiritual influence, and that is our concern for other people. Competence and character creates authority, concern creates, you know, uh a real desire in people to know what actually makes us tick when we stop and we really show concern uh for other people, which starts in remembering their names, remembering what they've you know told you, uh thinking about you know what's going on in their lives outside work and uh and and remembering that and offering to pray for people and doing helpful things to them to make their lives uh make their lives easier all in in the workplace in some way. And then uh you follow that with wise communication, being willing to actually uh express your faith to people uh when they show an interest uh and talk further about that uh with them. And so those are you know those are uh real key key things competence, character, concern, and and I'd say wise communication, uh really uh understanding what's appropriate to say uh in a g in given situations with other people in the workplace.
SPEAKER_01Well said. Well, you've already shared some of the the background of the spiritual influence of R. G. Laterno, and and our listeners would be familiar familiar with Laterno and also uh what Chick-fil-A has been doing, and Trua Cathy and Dan Cathy, and so there's there are some of the more familiar examples, but who are some of the other real life examples of people who have demonstrated this spiritual influence at work that maybe our listeners might not be familiar with?
SPEAKER_02Well, uh one of one of my real heroes is a fellow by the name of William Wilperforce, who uh was a parliamentarian uh in in the United Kingdom at the beginning of the of of the uh the 19th century, be you know, 1700s, early 1800s. And um he uh became a became a committed Christian after he was a a member of Parliament and thought he would end up going to seminary, and he actually went to um to his to his mentor uh and who uh who told him that uh you know maybe God's called you, you know, to Parliament. And so he ended up staying there and uh asking God what he wanted him to do. And so God laid on William Wilberforce's heart this idea of you know eliminating the slave trade in England. And you know, they uh England abolished the slave trade without a war because of William Wilberforce. And it was a 50-year process, a journey, but uh uh he he over time uh both eliminated the slave trade and eliminated slavery uh in the in the United Kingdom. And uh he's a incredible important person. But you know, there's also some business people in the United States. We think of uh JC Penney, actually. We know his stores all over. Uh but the his original store was called the Golden Rules store. And uh so yeah, and and he was very committed to uh biblical principles in in running his business. But you know, those are you know larger than life heroes sometimes. There's just a lot of folks out there that are really trying to live live for Christ. There's a a number of my friends are leading workplace uh affinity groups and major corporations where they've been able to create uh employee resource groups within their companies at Texas Instruments and uh American Express and Hewlett Packard and 3M, different places like that uh where Christians gather together and talk. About what uh what faith really looks like uh in their workplace and how they can support each other to to live for Christ there.
SPEAKER_01Beautiful. Well that'll segue into this into this question. Um I want to hear about the upcoming faith at work conference uh that's happening there in Dallas. And I would imagine that that a lot of the the content and the presentations that will be shared there um would also be the types of content that these groups are digging into around around the country and around the world. Is that right?
SPEAKER_02That's exactly right. So back in the mid-80s, uh there was real a movement of people began uh to arise to be noticed, I guess, uh of uh this whole uh uh looking at this whole idea of faith work integration. And it's really grown from there. At the turn of the millennium, uh uh you know, we see you know thousands of different organizations and groups that have started uh addressing and and helping people in the workplace understand what it means to follow Christ in the workplace. And what's exciting is this is not just from one segment, it's not just business people meeting together, which has been great. It's not pastors and theologians doing this, it's uh it's uh business people, pastors and theologians, universities, seminaries, uh, and a ton of workplace ministries that have uh sprung up in the last number of years uh that are trying to address this issue. And what's interesting is these groups are large have been largely disconnected, uh kind of working in their own area. And so two years ago uh we convened the first faith and work faith at work summit in Boston and invited the the people that were really interested in this from the business world, from church leaders, seminaries, universities, and these marketplace ministries to come together to meet each other for the a lot of times for the first time, and then just to begin to talk together how we can work together to uh to to spread this this message and and and and foster and and and uh enhance the movement uh to really honor Christ in our workplaces. So in this next October, two years after the the first one, we will meet in Dallas, Texas again. And uh we've invited uh a host of marketplace leaders, uh theologians from seminaries and from churches uh and universities, university professors, business professors, uh, and marketplace ministers to come together uh to again meet each other and then begin to confer about how we can work together uh more effectively and efficiently to spread the gospel and this idea that work really matters to God uh throughout, you know, throughout the church and uh uh in the workplace uh going forward here. And so we're excited about that. We will have um about 25 different speakers uh that will address the crowd in uh a TED doing TED-type talks, so about 15 minutes each. And it's a fast moving conference. It is also a working conference, it's not so much the the talking heads uh up front, but we will take a lot of time to uh confer and visit in breakouts where different groups will discuss uh different aspects of the faith work movement and what needs to happen from from here uh in various workplaces and uh and situations around the around the country. And the last day on Saturday, we'll devote the whole day to addressing how workplace ministries and and people in the workplace work more directly with local churches to create whole life discipleship uh uh approaches uh in the church uh so that we can really see this this uh uh this movement uh reach a tipping point of of influence in in the workplace in America.
SPEAKER_01Well, Bill, I certainly will be attending, and I hope many of our listeners will also attend, and people can go and register at Center for Faith and Work.com. Is that right?
SPEAKER_02That's yeah, that's uh Centerforfaith and Work.com is the Laterno uh Center for Faith and Works website. Uh if people want to know more about the summit, they can go to fwsummit.org, f Faith and Work, FWSummit.org, and see who's going to be speaking in leading groups and uh exactly what what we'll be accomplishing there and there's a registration uh treat. It's actually a very inexpensive conference as a whole. Uh we've been able to keep that down, uh the cost down through uh wonderful sponsorships of businesses and different organizations and churches who'll be part of underwriting this particular conference. But if you're interested in this area of faith and work, either as a leader or in some ways wanting to wanting this conversation, wanting to learn more about you know this conversation of what in the world faith has to do with work, then this is a it'd be a tremendous opportunity for you to come together with some of the leading thinkers in this area.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. Bill, what would be one parting piece of advice you'd like to share with our listeners as we sign off here?
SPEAKER_02Well, I I would just I would just say this that uh make sure you begin your day uh recognizing the Lordship of Jesus Christ in your life, and then don't stop that when you when you walk out the door of your home and head toward work or wherever you're going to remember that Christ is there and that he wants to live out his his life through you and ask him to awaken you spiritually because all of us kind of fall asleep and we forget about Christ during the work. Uh even even pastors do that, uh even theologians do that, and so we need you know the Spirit of God just to reawaken us at times to God's presence. And when Christ is living his life out through us, which is what the Christian life is, when we're abiding with him, then uh then then he will show us and direct our path and not only what we do and how we do our work, but also uh how we influence other people uh as as they see us do our work as well.
SPEAKER_01Bill, thanks for coming on the Theology of Business Podcast and sharing your wisdom and expertise with us. And uh definitely everybody go to fwsummit.org, O R G, to go and register for the upcoming Faith at Work Summit. It's gonna be an incredible conference. I'm looking forward to attending and hopefully meeting um many of you there. Uh, Bill, thanks again and appreciate the work you're doing to quit marketplace ministers.
SPEAKER_02Jared, thanks a lot. Appreciate your work too, and may good may God bless all that that we do and say today.
SPEAKER_00Hope you've enjoyed using that.