On today's episode of Bible-based business education with guest Dr. Ernest Online. Welcome to the Christianity Business Podcast, an initiative of the RGW Dunham College of Business at Houston Baptist University. I'm your host during here, and this is the show that helps Christian Business Leaders to integrate biblical values into business. You can get more information about HBUC for Christianity and Business, including the Christian Business Review, Academic Journal, articles, videos, and news about our upcoming events by visiting our website at Christianityandbusiness.com. And on this first episode of the podcast, we're going to be discussing the theme of Bible-based business education. And we're joined by the director of the Center for Christianity and Business, Dr. Ernest Liang. In addition to directing the CCB or the Center for Christianity and Business, Ernest teaches finance and economics at Houston Baptist University. And before HBU, he spent 25 years as an economic consultant and senior financial executive with Fortune 100 and investment advisory firms. And as a personal friend of Ernest, I can tell you that he has a passion for helping Christian business leaders to do business God's way. Ernest, thanks for joining us on the Christianity and Business Podcast. Thank you so much, Darren. Thank you for having me. Well, I just shared a bit about your background, but go ahead and tell us what led you to start the Center for Christianity and Business and also just a little bit more about your background and what your vision is for this organization.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's actually quite interesting because I didn't really expect to be in this position when I first came to the States for education. I was born and raised in Hong Kong into a Christian family. And after college, I came to the States for graduate education at the University of Chicago. And as I studied under some of the world's leading scholars in economics and business, I was increasingly aware of the fact that knowledge incubated in the Ivory Tower translate into practical know-hows for business practitioners living in the trenches. So I chose to enter corporate America after graduate school instead of being an academic, where I spent my next 25 years until I was called into teaching full-time at HPU about 10 years ago. While in business, I was often struck by the fact that business people who are believers are very ill-equipped to lead in the in the fast-paced, fiercely competitive and secularized marketplace without straying from their calling as light and souls as well as faithful stewards in the Bible. As Jesus instructed in Matthew 10 and also in Luke 16, we need to act with shrewdness in this world, even in the face of the material temptations that we face every day as business practitioners. I therefore believe that there is a need to equip marketplace professionals with the best skills of leadership in light of the teaching of scripture. In other words, to learn everything that we can learn from the secular world, but apply them in a strict manner according to the biblical instruction. And also they encourage them with practical knowledge shared by foremost thinkers on orthopraxy, which theology speaks, that is the correct practice of theology. And by other leaders who offer nuggets of wisdom learned from the experiences. So basically, what we try to do is to form a forum where Christian business leaders can share their knowledge with each other. And also as an institution of higher learning, we will try to bridge the gap between what we discover and discuss at the top of the ivory tower and translate that language into a layman's term to help our business leaders who can apply this in a manner that will benefit themselves as well as their customers and their employees in a manner that's consistent with the biblical teaching. So I was glad that I was calling the HPU to not only teach, but to direct also the CCB because that is exactly the platform that I believe we can actualize these visions.
SPEAKER_00Well, when you say Christianity and business, and of course that's the name of the organization, this initiative at the Dunham College of Business at HBU, what do you mean when you say Christianity and business? And what does it look like in the marketplace?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a very good question. In Jesus' parable of the leavens, I think that's in Matthew 13, the kingdom of heaven's influence works from within of the believers, is by infiltrating the world, but more importantly, as leavening agents, yeasts first feed on the sugar. And the flower and chemically release carbon dioxide, which makes the flower expand and the heat. This is also what Jesus in John 17 says about being in the world, a lot of the world. So there's a level of compatibility and bonding between believers and unbelievers in order for the chemistry to work. But the reaction brings forth an advance in God's kingdom. A lot of people ask us, how does that work? Well, the answer is very simple worldview. Therefore, a Christian salesman, for example, it may exaggerate the usefulness of a new product to generate sales. An abortion drug researcher may convince himself that the drug could help mitigate the tragedy of a single mother. So there's a lot of incentive for him to develop the drug. Or a manager may report a pending order as realized sales in order to be in compliance with the bank loan because of the need to survive. Or a business owner may terminate an employee without any sufferance simply because he thinks that, well, yes, she was a loyal worker in dire financial needs, but then a company's objective comes in front of her needs. Why, in all these circumstances, our Christian professionals choose to recognize Christianity as a collection of truths, but not as a single truth. God's truth. Harry Branmeyers, in his classic book, The Christian Mind, says that now there is no longer a Christian mind, meaning that believers may be highly educated in terms of technical proficiency and yet have no biblical worldview for interpreting the subject matter of their field. Well, according to Pierce, as a moral being, the Christian follows the biblical ethic, but as a thinking being, she says that the more than Christian has succumbed to secularism, accepting a frame of reference, you know, constructed by the secular mind and a set of criteria reflecting secular evaluations. I think that is extremely insightful. If marketplace professionals ever want to be effective leaving agents in their work and environment, they need to live out what they believe in and adhering to all the truths as God's truth. They need to act and breathe from a biblical worldview, but they also need to be shrewd and proficient as their non-believing counterparts are. And this is the mission of the CCB. The objectives and the missions and visions from our website would say to challenge and equip present and future Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values and principles in their personal and professional lives so that they become stewards, effective leaders, and bold witnesses in God's economy. I think that is a very, very important objective, not just for HBU, I think for all uh Christian uh institutions of higher learning.
SPEAKER_00Well, I love what you said about how Christians are called to be the leavening agents in the world. And we're not called to evacuate and just kind of wait for Jesus to come back, but we're called to be uh we're we're called to represent the Lord in the marketplace, in the dark places, in the places where uh the where the needs are. And you know, we're the places where there's corruption, the places where there's poverty, the places where there's confusion, that's where Christians are called to be, to be the leaven uh in in the lump. And so it's a it's a perfect name for the organization Christianity in business because you know, Christianity really speaks of the way in which we represent Christ. So, how does HBU's business school help students to incorporate Christianity into business? And you know, what are some of those best practices? And and if I was to look at, for example, your finance class, Ernest, and compare that to maybe a finance class at uh a school where maybe the professor has maybe a humanist worldview or just you know, like an uh agnostic worldview or something like that, uh, what would be kind of the differences that one would notice?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the the differences could be subtle, uh depending on uh the classes, obviously, and also depending on the teacher. Uh but the the difference could also be very prominent. So we do it at several levels. Now, the first thing that we do is we as a college and as a university for that matter, we we strive to employ Christian faculty uh who do not only profess the lordship of Jesus Christ, but also who are able and willing to integrate faith into their interaction with students, either in the capacity as teachers in the classroom or as academic advisors. The second thing that we do, the CCB, the Center for Christianity and Business, is an integral part of the Dunham College of Business. And many of our activities initiated by the CCB are open to our students. Therefore, students will have first-hand exposure to Christian business leaders and foremost thinkers on faith work integration when these guests present at our regular luncheons or conference events. In addition, the CCB hosts an annual mentoring conference just for our students, in which a panel of local business executives or owners give personal testimonies and manage and mentor the students in roundtable discussions. Finally, the CCB gives out scholarship awards for students who show great potentials as future business leaders, as well as having exemplary academic accomplishments. I believe the best practice for an academic institution such as ours in promoting Christianity and business for students is to maximize the opportunities at which students get to see, hear, and experience what it really means to integrate faith and work, especially through the personal testimony and mentoring of those who have successfully done it in the marketplace. There have many, many accomplished business leaders who partner with us in this effort. Well, as far as my own class is concerned, sometimes it's very difficult for technical classes like finance and accounting. But the interesting thing is that is the area of my own research. There are a lot of things happening around us in the finance world that speak directly to why we need to be good stewards of God's resources and trusted to us. And finance, of course, speaks to resources from a material sense, but also from a non-material sense. I think that if you look at the markets around us today, just these few weeks, you can see the volatility and the chaotic uh scenario that's happening around the world. I think that speaks to exactly what Paul was, the Apostle Paul was talking about in Romans, you know, and also in his other letters, talking about the constant struggle between the flesh and the spirit in us. So we are we are basically governing our daily activities by the flesh, you know, we in a foreign, in a foreign state. So we we are driven by passions, we're driven by greed and fear, and that's exactly what is taking place in the marketplace. And so I have argued actually in some of my writings that you know the only way to save markets like this is to be able to reinstore or resurrect the spirits in us. And that of course have to be preconditioned by being a Christian. So some of these things can be expanded depending on the particular topic you talk about or present in the classroom. And it's also very important that we invite guest speakers into our classroom, and I do that all the time, who are successful Christian business investors or executives in the finance world who testify to students why they practice with a Christian world view. And that is very important to for the students to hear about. You know, they think that, well, the market in the finance world is totally secularized. No, it's not. You know, it's another manifestation how God forces is at work in this world.
SPEAKER_00Do you find that the students are somewhat surprised to find out that there are people that really do view their work in business as ministry to the Lord, as service to God? I'm curious, how are the students being affected and impacted by what they're experiencing through uh the Dunham School of Business and the Center for Christianity and Business?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh actually a lot of students do. Like, for example, in our mentoring conference, which we conduct every year, when we have business, you know, leaders and entrepreneurs coming in uh in the seminar on the round table to talk to students about their own challenges as Christian leaders and how they actually use biblical principles to guide the growth of their business, the student was just completely shocked. You know, they they thought that you know a Christian cannot be successful uh as a business leader. And when they see that, you know, and hear that with their own eyes and ears, they suddenly realize that, wow, I can be a strong Christian and also be successful. No, I mean I don't I don't mean necessarily in a material sense, but at least you are you're completely satisfied as a person working, you know, for the glory of God. So these are very powerful testimonies that we are, and we we very, very often see that student uh receive from our presenters.
SPEAKER_00Well, Ernest, this has been very inspiring. If there was uh maybe one piece of advice that you would want to leave with the the Christian business professionals that are listening here today, maybe they're educators, maybe they're they're practitioners, maybe they're both. Um what would what would be a parting piece of advice you'd like to share?
SPEAKER_01I think the only thing I would say to them is be a be be and find the opportunities to be engaged um with not only their fellow Christian marketplace professionals, but also in the case of like an institution like ours, there are a lot of aspiring young students, uh aspiring entrepreneurial leaders who are very eager to hear about how these people uh practice what they believe from day in and day out. Most of people who call themselves Christians, obviously, you know, they go to church on Sundays and then Monday comes around, they forget about what they learned on Sundays and they practice just like everybody else. And so that is one of the things we try to remind everybody, including marketplace professionals, not just students, that you live and breathe as a Christian, as a believer. And so the way that we act and think and practice uh is the way that our DNA drives us, and our DNA obviously is you know the spirit. And so uh we cannot be very different from who we are. I mean, otherwise you'll be you'd be lying to yourself. There are other things that actually we do at CCB that expose uh these kind of visions to um the constituency. And for example, we have a journal called the Christian Business Review Journal that is published both online and hard copies that's sent out to over 4,000 individuals in business schools and businesses all around the country. And obviously, we also have this blog called The Kingdom Economy, which has a lot of interesting stuff, including current news that are of interest to Christian marketplace professionals as well as blogs that are very inspiring to readers. So there are other things to do. And I think that you know, if we can coordinate the efforts uh among organizations like ours across the country, and I and I think there are many of them, we can really make this a movement. Uh not just in the United States. I think that our mission has to be the world. So we need to reach out to countries like China and India, and many countries in Africa where Christian uh population, Christian population is growing very fast. And we need to do that through social media, for example, and through the internet. So that's really what uh the mission of the CCB is, and I think that every Christian marketplace professional has a part in making this happen.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's great advice to get connected with other believers in business, and that's what the Center for Christianity and Business is all about is providing that uh that support, that that guidance, that inspiration, the the blogs. I mean, the caliber of of practitioners and scholars that are writing these blogs, writing these journal articles and uh gathering for these uh these luncheons, it's it it's it's first class. So definitely recommend everybody uh get connected. I mean, if you just do a Google search for Christianity and business, it'll pop right up. And uh look us up on Facebook, on Twitter, on LinkedIn, and you're gonna be able to find out more about what's happening. Well, Ernest, thanks for the work you're doing to help Christian business leaders to integrate biblical values into business. And thanks for coming on to share your time and wisdom and expertise on the show today.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you for having me. This is a great privilege to be part of this uh this asset. And I think, Darren, you're doing a great job there.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Thank you, Ernest. We hope you've enjoyed this episode. And if so, we'd greatly appreciate it if you'd leave us a quick rating and review for the Christianity and business podcast on iTunes or Twitter Radio. You can get more information about HBU's Center for Christianity and Business at Christianity and Business.com. And be sure to sign up for our email.