Welcome back to the Theology of Business Podcast, the show that helps marketplace Christians to partner with God in business to transform the marketplace and make an impact in eternity. I'm your host, Darren Shearer, author of The Marketplace Christian and Marketing Like Jesus. On this episode, I want to share the recording of a presentation I recently gave at an event called The Christian Business Luncheon in Houston, Texas. And I titled this presentation The Most Important Business Advice I Learned in Seminary. And in case you don't know what seminary is, it's just a fancy name for the type of school that primarily has been training people for pulpit ministry for many centuries. Hope you enjoy this and let me know what you think about it by commenting on this episode at theologyofbusiness.com. Well, it's an honor to be with you today. So I hope this title up here, The Best Business Advice I Gain from Seminary, is piquing your interest a little bit. There was a conversation I had with a gentleman. I went to a rotary club meeting and was the speaker there a couple years ago while I was in seminary. And I was speaking with this executive, I think he was the uh the an executive in a construction company, and I was explaining to him that I was in seminary prepared studying theology in preparation for going to start a business. And you should have just seen the look on his face. I mean, it was like deer in the headlights. And you can't really I don't think he was a Christian. Uh and you can't really blame him for some of the maybe uh preconceived notions about what a seminary experience might be like. In fact, it might have looked something like this in his mind, uh, that you know, we we sit, and these are Carmelite monks, and I have utmost respect for what they're doing. This is actually a recent picture. Um that this this continues to go on, but our brothers who are studying the word and committing themselves to uh to growing in their relationship with God. And and so he probably had some ideas about what a theological education looked like that, and he thought, how could that possibly be relevant in a business setting? Because going from studying the Bible to working with customers, working with bosses, working with our board members, I mean, how could it possibly be relevant? And and so he said, you know what? Maybe it means if you're studying theology and you're going into business, that probably means you're gonna become a televangelist. And and the next thing that he that I explained to him was, no, no, no, what I'm doing is I'm in seminary studying theology, but I'm studying practical theology. Because if our theology isn't practical, I mean, what is it good for? If it's not something that makes a difference in our everyday lives, what is it really good for? So, and he said, Well, I didn't realize theology was practical. Well, it's a fair question. It's a fair question. Is the Christian faith useful in the business world? And I'm gonna talk about kind of where this began for me. It started out, as Paul mentioned just a moment ago, that I was an officer in the United States Air Force, and I grew up thinking that ministry as a son of a preacher, I grew up kind of thinking that ministry was something that happened inside the four walls of a church. Can anybody relate to that? So if you're a minister, that means you went to seminary, that means that you started a church or you become a pastor or a missionary or something along those lines. But when I got this revelation that we're all ministers, not just some of us that have a special pedigree, but it was when I was leaving the base one day at this very spot at Barksdale Air Force Base, I was driving outside of the gates, I was getting ready to go and do some activities through my local church, which is all well and good. But God said, This Air Force base, as I was driving over those railroad tracks, God said, This Air Force base is where I've called you to be my minister. And so from that moment driving over those railroad tracks, a shift happened in my heart where I began to realize that not only am I qualified to be a minister of God, but it's our responsibility for all Christians, whether you're a ditch digger or a CEO or a school teacher or a pastor in a traditional sense, because we have pastors that are out there in businesses, by the way, that we are all called, we all have a stewardship and an assignment to be ministers of God. So is the Christian faith useful in the marketplace? That led me to wrestle with this question of what is, if we are ministers, what is our primary purpose in the marketplace as Christians? I mean, what does when we hear marketplace ministry, what does that actually look like? Well, maybe for some of us, what that means is it's all about applying timeless principles. And I'm a firm believer in that. I mean, if you go to the book of Proverbs, there is wisdom for your business. There's wisdom about having wise counsel, there is wisdom about staying out of debt, there's wisdom about saving, there's wisdom about budgeting. I mean, everything that you would need to know in terms of business principles is there in the book of Proverbs. I mean, in fact, I named my firstborn son Solomon. That's how much I I love the Proverbs. I mean, you could even look at the life of Jesus, and I wrote a book about this marketing like Jesus. You can look at the marketing strategies that Jesus was using in his ministry, for example, have a target audience. And the way that Jesus said, I've come to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. It was a very specific ethnic group, and then within that ethnic group, there were the people on the fringes of that ethnic group. So as I work with authors and I ask them, okay, who is this book for? And they say, Oh, my book is for everybody. Well, if your book is for everybody, nobody's gonna read it because you don't have the resources to market to everybody, but you can market to somebody that needs to hear that message. So applying timeless principles, there's plenty of uh, but but the thing is is that we can get into the mindset that the Christian life is about um it's about principles, and we can we can have a relationship with principles and not have a relationship with God because God wants a personal relationship, so it's gotta be more than that. Maybe it's about being financially prosperous, and and financially prosperous to do good things. Uh, I mean I I understand that Paul says that he was self-sufficient, uh, ready for every good work, and and that the with he with his tent making business, he was able to not only supply his own needs, but to take care of the needs of those who are on his his ministry team. So being financially prosperous is probably part of it, but it's not the primary purpose for what we're doing in the marketplace. I mean, our our purpose as marketplace ministers isn't just to go to work to make money so that we can put money in the offering plate to do the things that really matter. There's there's gotta be more. What is our responsibility as ministers? Maybe some people in this marketplace ministry, you know, marketplace Christianity movement have got the mindset that what we're trying to do with this movement is just break apart the old ways of doing church and just do something radically new to where we don't need buildings, we don't even need to go to church. We can just watch church on our computer, and that's that's enough church for me. And not ever experience the joy in the true meaning of the church and the body of Christ, of being a part of a local fellowship of believers. So it's it's gotta be about more than that. Maybe it's about selling Christian-themed stuff to Christian people. I mean, I have a book publishing company, I can tell you that most of the book, all of the books that we publish are by Christian authors that have messages that aren't just going to Christians, but that are going to the world. Messages about leadership, messages about business, about adoption, about religious freedom, and all these variety of topics. But there's, if we're gonna make an impact on the culture, like C.S. Lewis said, one of the greatest writers of all time, Chronicles of Narnia series, he said that it's not about selling Christian. We don't need more Christian books, we need more books written by Christians on other topics. And so if we're gonna make an impact on society, we're going to have to speak into these other facets of culture, into politics, into business, into education. So it's got to be about more than selling Christian-themed stuff to Christians. Or maybe, maybe the way that you tend to think about our primary purpose as marketplace ministers is that it looks like a certain a certain model. So for example, uh, maybe it looks like being a marketplace chaplain. Where, and there's several great companies, I know several of the people that work in these companies, they're marketplace chaplains. They're they, I mean, when when there's a death in the family, if you're if you're an executive or or a boss and one of your family members has a loss in the family, I mean, who's gonna care for that person if they're not part of a church? So they hire marketplace chaplains to come in and minister to those people. Well, that's one function of the body of Christ in the marketplace. That's not that's not everybody's role exactly, but some people are called to that. Or maybe you think marketplace ministry is about uh evangelism, and so it's all about sharing your faith, uh articulating your testimony around the water cooler. And there's probably gonna be a time, I hope there's a time for that, because Peter said, always be ready to give a reason for the hope that is within you, and our lives should provoke that question to be asked of us. So if if it's not if none of those are necessarily our primary purpose, I mean, all of those can tie into it somehow, but what is our primary purpose? And this brings me to the best business advice I gain in seminary. And it came in a class called Biblical Models of Discipleship. And the the professor, she on day one of the class, she said, of these master's level, you know, future preachers, future church planters, missionaries, how many of you have been discipled? Where somebody was intentional about your personal spiritual growth and helping you to become more like Christ. And only maybe a fourth of the hands went up and said that they had been discipled at some point in their life. Some somewhere around 75 to 80 percent of the hands did not go up because they had never been discipled. They didn't know what it looked like to have somebody take them under their wing and show them what it's like to be, to, to, as Paul said, imitate me as I imitate Christ. So the best business advice I gained from seminary, it wasn't just learning about the importance of church history, although that was that was valuable. It wasn't learning all of the author controversies of you know how many authors of Isaiah were there, and and all of these arguments about this type of theology, Christology, ecclesiology, and all of this. It was go into all the world and make disciples of all nations. That what we're doing in business is not about just making a profit, it's not about getting more political influence, it's not about uh gaining more uh social authority, it's about making disciples of all nations. And that is the great commission. Go into all the world. So what is this, what does this look like? And and and this is how this is how I tend to think of it in light of Habakkuk chapter 2, verse 14. For as the waters fill the sea, the earth, which is not just inside your church building on Sunday morning, it includes the marketplace seven days a week. The earth will be filled with an awareness of the glory of God. And what is the glory of God? The writer of Hebrews tells us that it is Jesus. He is the sun, is the radiance of God, the exact representation of his being. So this is what discipleship is all about. It's filling the earth, filling your workplace, filling your community, filling this campus with an awareness of the glory of God. And it doesn't, notice that it doesn't say to fill the earth with the glory of God, because the glory is there. What does glory mean? It means the weightiness of God. Because the glory of God is weighty, whether the politicians realize it, whether the voters realize it, whether the teachers realize it, whether the administrators realize it, whether your coworkers realize it. So it's about discipleship, it's about revealing what Jesus looks like to our world. And that was the most important business advice that I learned in seminary. And I say business advice. Why do I say business advice? Because if your bottom line is eternal, then just the temporary, you know, whatever we think of as financial bottom lines. I mean, if it doesn't matter in eternity, it's not the bottom line, ultimately. And we're all gonna find that out. So discipling nations is our primary purpose in the marketplace. It's also fascinating that Jesus said, go into all the world and make disciples, not just of individuals, but of entire nations, of entire groups of people. So for the marketplace, what does that look like? I believe that we need to really focus on our specific industries that we're working in. I mean, think about what Chick-fil-A, the standard that Chick-fil-A sets in the fast food industry. That's that's discipling an entire industry. I mean, how does your business, business owner, how is how are you discipling your industry and the culture and the way that customers are served, uh, the the way that that employees are taken care of. It's an incredible opportunity to reveal the character in the heart of Jesus. And and it happens on that very personal level, but it also happens on that macro cultural level. And this is kind of a scary thing right now because our culture is being discipled. The problem is it's being discipled in the wrong direction. It's not being discipled to look more like Jesus, it's being discipled to look more like some liberal chaos. I mean, some the it's it's the people are so confused. There's, I mean, there's such a lack of a sense of absolutes and moral absolutes in our culture. And and right now in America specifically, our culture is being discipled by the secular humanist that says that religion is the problem, all the while organizing as a religion and not having to take on the stigma of a religion. And so, our culture, whether we do it and reveal what Jesus looks like, what the plan of God, what the plan of redemption, because it says in Romans that all of creation, God wants the entire creation to be redeemed, not just individuals, but all of creation. God loves the whole world. And so it's our responsibility as Christians to reveal what Jesus looks like, what the heart of God looks like in our workplace and in our industry. So, how do we make disciples? And this should be encouraging to us because maybe when you hear the term discipleship, I mean, what immediately comes to your mind? Um it could be it could be some something, usually, when we hear about marketplace ministry as an example, um, we might think of, as I was saying before, it means evangelizing to your coworkers. Where sometimes that's frankly just not appropriate in a in a workplace setting where you're paid to do a certain job and you're gonna take time off your employer to have a debate about creation or something, creation versus evolution, or something like that. But sometimes people with a strong evangelistic gift, they want to just do that, they want to dive in headlong into those conversations. But we all have different gifts that God has given to the body of Christ for the purpose of building up the body of Christ and revealing Jesus to our world, which is making disciples. And these are just some of the different ways that, for example, the gift of administration, these are gifts that the Apostle Paul talks about. Uh the gift of compassion. I mean, what does, and I have stories of how all 23 of these are being used in a business setting. I mean, for example, the gift of prophecy. I have a guy in my church here in Houston, he used his gift of prophecy, he got a word of knowledge about something, a hazardous situation. He's working on an oil rig, the oil man, and just got a revelation that something bad was gonna happen if he didn't take the corrective action to fix this hazardous situation, and he acted on the word of the Lord, even though the safety managers like this is not a big deal. The managers, the rig manager finally elevated it up. The rig manager was like, Alright, David, go and make this change. And he ended up saving a guy's life because the the 10,000-pound pipe fell right in front of one of his friends' feet as before he made the took the corner where the section was roped off. So, how are you using first of all, you have to know what your spiritual gifts are in order to release those into the marketplace because again, it's all about revealing Jesus, and and it's not gonna just happen uh as one of us does it, because that's where the whole body of Christ is necessary. Because all of these gifts are represented by somebody in this room to varying degrees. I mean, and it says far more about who God is than it does about who we are. This is not about your strength finders assessment 2.0, and because I mean, non-Christians take the same assessments, right? But this is talking about the spiritual gifts that God has given to each person for re for eternal value to make an impact on eternity. And so, just real quick, I mean, a couple of ways that you can use your discipleship tools, as I like to call them, is to first of all identify what is that industry that God has called you to disciple through your company. What is that industry that He has called you to reveal the glory of God, to reveal the nature of God in the ways of God? What is that industry? And then set an example worth following. Uh DL Moody said out of 99, out of a hundred people, 99 uh One person will read the Bible, the other 99 will read the Christian. And then partner with other Christians in your industry. Because we're not just there to make a buck, right? We're there to make disciples, because that is the ultimate purpose, that is the ultimate bottom line for every business person and everyone in the workplace, in fact, every Christian, no matter where you work, that is the ultimate purpose. And then love your industry because the Apostle Paul said if I if I prophesy, if I have the gifts to the max, but I don't have love, then I have nothing. And so the love is what fuels your leadership gift. It's what fuels your administrative gift, your teaching gift, your prophetic gift. It's not ambition or selfish ambition. It's not greed. It's not some kind of distorted motivation. It's got to be love. Because otherwise we have nothing. And then apply those gifts in your industry on a daily basis. And I want to leave you with this before we have some time for some QA. Jesus said these words. Even though she only put a little yeast, a little yeast, in three measures of flour, it permeated every part of the dough. And I think that's what discipleship is all about. You take those few fish and loaves in your hand. Maybe you say, oh, I'm just a teacher, or I'm just an administrative assistant, or uh what whatever your your gift mix is. All it takes is just a little. And then the compound effect through the whole body of Christ out in the workplace, out in the marketplace, in your industry, you know what that's gonna result in? It's gonna permeate every part of the culture. And then we're not gonna be so uh in such fear about oh, the you know, the the these godless value systems are taking over the planet. We're gonna realize that the glory of God shines much brighter than the flashiest new values, the flashiest new religion, the flashiest new philosophy. And so take courage, take heart, and partner with your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ out in the marketplace. Use your gifts, your discipleship tools, and realize that making disciples is ultimately the bottom line for every person in this room. Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to honor to be able to speak to you. Hope you've enjoyed this episode and I'd like to hear your feedback at theologyofbusiness.com where you can get more information about marketplace ministry, spiritual gifts in the marketplace, marketing like Jesus, and Christ-centered leadership and entrepreneurship. This episode of the Theology of Business Podcast was sponsored by High Bridge Books. If you're interested in publishing a book to make an impact for God's glory and culture, head on over to highbridgebooks.com forward slash course to sign up for a free three video author training course. And in this course, you'll learn how to write a great nonfiction book, how to market your book, and how to start a blog to build your platform as a thought leader. And feel free to email me at Darren at highbridgebooks.com to get a conversation going about your book. Thanks for listening and keep partnering with God in your business.