This week's episode, Jesus and the Role of Storytelling in Business with guest Taylor Jones, co-founder and CEO of Whiteboard. Welcome back to Theology of Business. I'm your host, Darren Shear, author of the book Marketing Like Jesus, and founder of Hybridge Books. And this is a show that helps marketplace leaders to partner with God in business to change the world and make a difference in eternity. I hope you enjoyed this episode and I hope to hear your feedback on this episode at theologyofbusiness.com, where you can also get more information about spiritual gifts in the marketplace, marketing like Jesus, and Christ-centered leadership and entrepreneurship. This week we're going to be discussing the topic of Jesus and the role of storytelling in business. I love a quote by Pastor Louis Giglio. He said, the world doesn't need a lecture, the world needs a picture. And the way that we're able to communicate our messages and draw people in to the type of communication that we are trying to relay to them, a story, there is nothing more powerful than communicating with stories. And that's why Jesus, probably a third of his teaching, uh, were stories. And so we're going to be talking about today how did Jesus use storytelling and what is the role of storytelling and business? We're joined by Taylor Jones. This is actually what he does for a living he helps organizations to tell their stories more effectively. And he's the founder of Whiteboard, which is an award-winning creative agency whose client list includes Chick-fil-A, the Passion Conferences, uh, Youth for Christ USA, and Q Ideas, which is an awesome website, by the way. I was just checking on that.
SPEAKER_01I really appreciate that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And so he's got over a decade of experience in programming, uh, user experience design, and accounting. And so he's leading the development team there. And you guys are in Chattanooga, Tennessee, which is an awesome city.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's especially right now, the weather's been amazing. So our team has uh has been really enjoying life, it seems.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and special shout out to Professor Dwayne Thompson over at Lee University for recommending that I have Taylor on this on this podcast. And after seeing the work he's been doing at Whiteboard, I can see why he comes so uh highly recommend it. Welcome to the Theology of Business Podcast, Taylor.
SPEAKER_01I really appreciate that, Darren. It's great to uh be on the show today. I really appreciate the invitation and uh the encouragement. It's uh definitely an honor.
SPEAKER_00Indeed, it's gonna be fun. Well, tell us as we're as we get going a little bit more about your background and when did you first make the connection between your Christian faith and your work in business?
SPEAKER_01So grew up in a uh strong Christian home, go into church every time the doors were open, and you know, with uh mentoring, I really had amazing parents who who raised me in a strong home. And my dad was, in my opinion, the epitome of a Christian entrepreneur, you know, always working hard, genuine servant leadership. And so really early on, he taught me what it means to connect uh faith to work and about the integrity of you know, whatsoever you do, do it unto the glory of God. And I think you know, from an early age that was a strong connection point for me on how we, you know, in our work should do it as though we are honoring uh our Heavenly Father.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You know, Taylor, as as I interview Christian entrepreneurs, Christian business people, you you begin to notice some of the common themes that come up. And when I ask that question, often the answer I get is that I had a strong Christian father that taught me uh how to honor God in business and how to walk in integrity and and the value of a of a strong name in the community. And and so you are one in several that have mentioned that as being kind of their their background, and and so it it just says to me that if you're a father out there, that your children are and your and if you're a mother as well, absolutely, that your kids are watching how you conduct yourself in business, and and who knows, they might start the next uh whiteboard.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, yeah. I mean, if I can even comment on that, I think you know, I I hear many times in our work people attempting to separate uh business and life as though they are two different sets of moral values, um, and they are definitely not. And I think that's a a key, in my opinion, Christian principle is that you know, whatever we do, whatever activity we are engaged in, whether that's work, life, pleasure, recreation, um, it is all under the auspice of our faith. And so I think that's something that that is really important uh for any any person who considers themselves a Christian in their work to consider.
SPEAKER_00I couldn't agree more. Well, Taylor, as you know, we're going to be talking about storytelling, which is right in your wheelhouse. So so we know that Jesus told between 31 and 65 parables, depending on who's counting, but in approximately a third of his teaching were was delivered through parables. Why do you think he told so many stories to communicate his message?
SPEAKER_01You know, I think storytelling is powerful because it allows you to place yourself in the shoes of the character and it connects on a very, you know, obviously relational kind of level, where when we are simply drawing up an argument of facts, that doesn't necessarily give us the position of empathy or of uh experiential relation that a story does. And so I think when Jesus is using uh parables and storytelling to communicate, um, that's what he's intended to do, is to really build those bridges and to provide broad context for uh the outcome. And I also think that when you are when you're simply telling facts, there is a lot of opportunity for interpretation and for those facts to be misconstrued. And Jesus is wise enough to know that you know I need to tell a story that has a a narrative with broad application in order for the message to really be uh communicated in the most effective way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And you know, those stories, they draw people in in a way that a lecture just can't do. Right. And and yet that is often the model in our in our churches, for example, of how communication happens is in more of a lecture style format. But I think Jesus, he told those stories, like one that comes to mind is Luke 15, the parable of the lost sheep, the lost coin, the lost son. And and what he's doing there is telling these stories to draw people in to connect on an emotional level, not just sort of on a on a logic level, to explain how intensely humans are loved by our Creator despite our self-inflicted flaws.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. You know, I think it's the same as I was just having a conversation with a great mentor yesterday about uh the power of reading and the power of reading fiction in a world where many of us entrepreneurs feel very drawn to read only nonfiction or leadership or self-help books. But there's yeah, I mean me too. But there's so much to be gained from reading fiction because the power of narrative is it's compelling, right? And I think that's the when you're simply arguing a case, there's not a lot of compelling nature to that uh conversation. Whereas when, you know, and and also I think when you're lecturing, judgment could enter into that conversation, right? And so there's a lot to be gleaned from the power of stories. Some of the greatest lessons in life that I've learned, you know, have not always been from books or or lectures about uh telling me to do a specific thing or an application study, but but oftentimes are connecting me on a character journey of decisions that had to be made and things like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and the lecture model can even be a little bit condescending. And I think it's a difference between the Hebrew model of education and the Greek model, which is the Greek model is as we have here in the United States, by and large, where the the one with the with the robe and the hood and all of that, I mean, you you sit at their feet and you see this in the regalia at our graduation ceremonies, just the hierarchy that is that is so clear to everybody. And it doesn't communicate that we're all on this journey together. It it implies that that I'm the one that has the degree. Now sit at my feet and listen to what I have to say. Versus Jesus, he did life together. I mean, it was the world was his classroom. Sure. And I mean he was able to like look at a you know, look at a fig tree and and and basically communicate a powerful message using uh using a story, uh, in effect.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it centers around pride, right? Where when we're lecturing, there there can definitely be a spirit of pridefulness on behalf of the lecturer. Um, and I don't mean this much in the academic sense, but like you're saying with regalia, you know, there's a pridefulness in my achievement, whereas Jesus' attempt in storytelling was to remove the temptation of pridefulness from the preaching, if you will. And I think that's something that's really compelling about storytelling.
SPEAKER_00Well, I know we could go on and on about this particular topic, and and I think we've already kind of provided a good theological foundation for understanding why you do what you do at Whiteboard. So tell us how do you help your clients tell their stories and what do you do at Whiteboard?
SPEAKER_01You know, so we at Whiteboard, objectively, we do quite a broad array of services that are fit under three sort of pillars. One, grow, we work with clients to help them achieve business objectives or organizational objectives. We focus on building things that support those objectives and tracking those measurable outcomes. Uh another pillar is vision, where we help clients to craft uh future vision for their company or their organization or their church or whatever it might be, helping them to uncover often peeling back calluses of missing vision. And then the third piece, which is the biggest pillar, it's the core of everything we do, is interactive. And that is everything from communication style sites or content publishing sites all the way up through very heavily customized uh web applications that serve a specific business need or creating learning management systems or creating mobile technology, a number of different things. So from an organizational perspective, we do a pretty broad array of services, but you know, specifically on the storytelling component, which is a key part of that sort of runs through all the work that we do. Um many times what we find ourselves doing is actually not creating a new story, but digging in to discover the story that is within an organization. And we find that many times organizations have forgotten their narrative. Or, you know, it's not only that they're not communicating it well, it's that they've forgotten what it is. Uh and so we do a lot of work in helping to craft uh the narrative, and a lot of this falls under the vision pillar, um, but really helping to craft the narrative to create a compelling story, and really that centers around you know, what is the impact on the world, what is the impact on other people that results from our operations as an organization? That's really the narrative uh that is to be told.
SPEAKER_00So wow, so you guys are offering a wide array of services, but it all kind of relates back to helping organizations to discover and and really, I mean, you go back, what what does a process look like? I mean, are you you're looking at their their company history? You're I mean, how do you how do you actually help them to to discover their story? Let's say that I'm a entrepreneur and I haven't really c I mean basically I'm just articulating facts and figures and stats and stuff like that when I talk to my when I talk to my potential clients, how can I shift that to tell more of a story, more of a narrative?
SPEAKER_01Sure. I think the digging deep, it typically we find ourselves usually in a conversation with the founder or leader uncovering the reason why they started doing what they do. So a couple of examples. So we worked with a packaging company, uh secular company, no faith uh lean in their organization, right. Um they have grown substantially, 10x multiplier over the past few years, um, and sit down with their founder to try to help to craft, you know, their marketing presentation was very product-centric, you know, buy boxes, buy packaging materials, and so forth. And we sit down with their founder and we say, you know, tell us how you even got into this industry. Well, you know, his grandfather started the company after coming over from uh immigrating from Europe, um, and then his dad took over the company, he took over the company from there, and in this conversation, he reaches under his desk and he pulls out this uh photo album where his grandfather took the entire family on a ginormous vacation every year as a result of having created this very successful company. And so then we're able to connect the dots where the reason why this company exists is because of a family that wants to be together. And so this is really the narrative driving the organization, right? Like they they are using the sale of packaging materials to fund this vision. And so we were able to then use that to help communicate some pieces of that organization better. Or in the case of uh, you know, in another organization where we sit down with uh president who's not necessarily the founder, but let's say that they do ministry, and we discover that the the reason why this person ever even stepped into this space and to step into a life that involves a sacrifice of a ministerial position, um, not because they are helping 350,000 kids, but because there was one moment in his life when he was early on where someone stepped in to help him in his worst time of need. And so that's like the core narrative to me that drives organizations, and those are the stories that need to be elevated where we're really uncovering what is a core truth uh that's driving that organization forward. And I know the language gets lofty uh there, um, but I think it that's really what the essence of the uh the approach is about.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, I mean people want to know what what is your company represent? What is the what is kind of the the driving narrative behind it? Sometimes people will ask me, I've got a publishing company, uh Taylor, and it's called High Bridge Books. And sometimes people will ask me, what is why High Bridge Books? Well, I started the company in New York City in a neighborhood called Washington Heights, which is in the upper tip of Manhattan, and there's a there's a bridge that connects the Bronx to Manhattan that goes right through our neighborhood. And and it's called the High Bridge, and it it's the oldest bridge in all of New York City, and and it was built as uh as an aqueduct to bring water into the city to refresh this burgeoning uh city of Manhattan back in the in the kind of mid-1800s. And and so borrowing from that, I mean there's a there's a picture. Now, how does that tran how does that relate to book publishing? Well, I want to I want to publish books with this company that are life-giving, you know, that refresh people, that inspire people. And so kind of like that, like that aqueduct, you know, we're we're pumping out books that are literally changing thousands of lives. Is that is that kind of the kind of a good example for telling your story?
SPEAKER_01Exactly. I mean, I think, you know, I'll talk about whiteboard for a second. The reason that you know I started working in the technology space when I was 15 and worked for a number of different companies who I enjoyed, but always felt uh just a lack of sort of purpose and fulfillment in the work. Um and that was the nature of a lot of different things that that really aren't relevant. But I said, you know, there has to be a better way. We have to be able to have a company where people come to work every day, they are fulfilled in their work, they are doing work that has a great social impact, uh, not just for the simple cliche of you know, trendy businesses have great social impact, but I think there's a renaissance there that's really important. But um and so from really from the time I was uh sort of an older teenager, I wanted to create an environment where people could grow, where they could do work that mattered to them, where they were well compensated. You know, I believe the highest calling of a business is results, it is margin, it is profit. That is the greatest testament of a company's success is profit over time. Um but you know, I think for me, like the story of Whiteboard really started there. It started with this idea. Like my vision for whiteboard is is seen through the lens of the people who work on my team. You know, it's definitely a piece of the clients that we work with and what their vision ultimately is for their organization. But a huge part of my reasoning for even putting the energy into starting a company with my business partner is that I want to create a better lifestyle for people than what I was able to find in my early career. Um, you know, and then there's some other pieces to the narrative for how whiteboard specifically came out of that. But that's definitely to me the essence of storytelling and business is digging deep and figuring out these uh these root causes that that drive us to do what we do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I would encourage people to go and check out your website because when you go on there, you're gonna see it's whiteboard.is and I was it's it's different. It's not the it's not the typical website that you see out there where you know they're just trying to like drive facts and figures and stats. They're they're telling a story, they're talking about the culture, they're talking about the their their personal lives and how they like to they like to work and you know work hard, play hard. Right. And you know, talk about the you get a feel for for actually where they work, and they take you inside the office and you know, talk about how how much they like their city of uh Chattanooga. And and it's all if you're looking for a good example of what this storytelling looks like, I think there's a case in point at whiteboard.is.
SPEAKER_01I really appreciate that, Darren. It's uh definitely was the outcome of us trying to represent the essence of who both who we were at the time we created that site and who we want it to be. Um I think that's something that you know has definitely caught the ears and eyes of quite a few people in a way that we didn't expect. So I really appreciate you uh mentioning that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you know, I think s depending on who who you have to sell on on having a company contract with you guys for your services, if somebody is more analytically minded or they're just not buying into the whole, because it can look a little bit artistic. I mean, because there's a there's a definite art to what you do. I mean, so so for let's say that I'm a business leader and I'm considering having whiteboard, but I just don't know if I buy into how we can actually measure the effectiveness of of what you're gonna do for my company. Like, what would you say to that type of uh business leader?
SPEAKER_01Sure. So you're actually uncovering a place, an interesting place where we are. Uh we are in the process of rolling out what will be our next uh website for whiteboard. So the current site we've had online for some time now, um, and we've definitely felt over the last couple of years, you know, the the tug of the both and when it comes to measurable results, right? So whereas as you're saying, the the site now it does focus on a more artistic presentation, um, but we're now trying to balance a both and where we're understanding that the results-orientedness is necessary so long as it does not cause a sacrifice on the narrative side and vice versa. So sooner, uh very soon, I don't have an exact date, but very soon we'll be launching a new presentation that that attempts to bring that component in. And internally, uh just very objectively speaking, we do a lot of measurable work uh that's definitely grown over the past few years, and we we work with everything from e-commerce companies to ministries on closing out uh next action pathways and all kinds of things when it comes to the marketing side. But I'm definitely feeling that the combination of those things coming together here in the next couple of months.
SPEAKER_00Excellent. Is that is that because you guys are so you're what is kind of the the proportion of nonprofits versus for-profits that you work with?
SPEAKER_01Uh it's probably about a 50-50 split. Um obviously it varies on the season, um, but overall, if you look at our portfolio, um it does it it is about a 50-50 split. Where our our current portfolio online, it's sort of sad to say, as a digital agency, is is not updated uh to where it should be just because of the season that we've been going through. But uh it's about a 50-50 split.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Because I can come I can understand how for a nonprofit that this this approach to telling your story and and letting that be kind of the driving uh force behind your your marketing, if you will, um would uh would make a lot of sense because in the nonprofit world, I mean your story is everything. I mean that is the that is the the return on investment as far as anything that they would be spending on their on their organization to promote it, is to it it seems to Me, it would be because I worked with a nonprofit as a development director, and and just trying to tell the stories of your organization is what keeps nonprofits alive. Because if you can't tell a good story, then how can you you're not selling anything unless you look at it as okay, we are we are in the business of changed lives. I hear a lot of a lot of pastors saying that. And so do you find that there's kind of a difference in how nonprofits and for-profits approach this concept of storytelling?
SPEAKER_01I do, and I think both have something important to learn from the other. Um, you know, one of the things that I think uh nonprofits really struggle with is understanding what their product is, um, and they want people to uh to dive into, you know, they want to believe that the work is their product, and it's really not. The story is their product, and that's what people are buying. And in the same way that in the business sphere, we have investors and we have customers. They have the same in the nonprofit sphere. You have underwriters who are essentially investors, and you have customers who are your smaller donors but who often make more noise. And that smaller donor is looking at a nonprofit to buy a product in the same way that a customer is looking to buy a tube of toothpaste. And that product that they're buying is the continuation and participation in the story of the nonprofit. And so if the nonprofit is not returning that product to them, then the val the transaction is out of balance and you will lose the customer. Um so I think you know, for a many again, many nonprofits, they don't understand that the story is the product that the consumer sees. And when they don't prioritize from a budget perspective or from an organizational values perspective, the resources to tell the story, they are shorting the customer of the product because the product is not ultimately the work, it's the delivery of the work to the donor. And so I think, you know, and and the same thing on the business side, we often forsake the narrative for the for a specific measurable outcome or a specific transaction. But a continued customer relationship revolves around a mutual shared experience, which is in and of itself a narrative. And so I think there's definitely a piece to be learned from both sides of the coin in understanding the relationship. And I know this is a little different from the question that you asked, but it's really important that nonprofits understand the difference in a customer and an investor relationship. And it's really important that for-profits understand that story is as much a part of their product as is the tangible thing that they hold in their hand. And in both cases, it's a both and. It's a what do I want my customer to do next? It's a what do I want my investor to do next on my behalf.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think what for-profit leaders can learn from nonprofits is I mean, what is it about one nonprofit that's gonna make somebody want to donate their money toward that nonprofit versus this nonprofit? And I think it it has to do with story. What story do I want to become a part of? It's kind of like which movie are you gonna go see? You know, is it gonna be this Jurassic Park movie or is it gonna be this one over here? It's well, what which story do I want to uh you know get into the middle of to feel like I'm a I'm a participant? And if businesses can get a hold of that, then I think we'll find that people, a big reason why they want to become a part. I mean, we think about like Apple and Starbucks and some of the things that that they have done as far as I mean, it's a tribe. Right. And and what tribe do people want to become a part of? It's the one that tells the best story. So if it's just talking about facts, figures, and stats, then that's not necessarily going to uh captivate people.
SPEAKER_01Right. You know, and I think there's something to be said here. I use this analogy in a lot in in business. We have the term of the sales funnel, right? And so we do the same in nonprofit. But I think the sales funnel is completely backwards. It is a sales mountain, and you are carrying the customer up the mountain to the point of sale. They are not falling by gravity, by some unexplainable force into your grasp. You are carrying them on that journey. And right, so like the companies that sell the best are the companies that are most equipped to make the journey to the top of the mountain. And it takes a lot of effort to get a person to carry them on your back all the way up the mountain with all the obstacles there. They're not simply falling through a catch-all. And I think that's something that's really important for nonprofits and for-profits to know, because that again it relates back to story. It's a journey up the mountain. It is not simply an accidental fall through the sky into a net of forward movement.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Excellent. I love that. What would be a kind of a parting piece of advice you would give to uh to a business leader that wants to take the next step toward communicating their story?
SPEAKER_01You know, I find that many business leaders are scared to tell the true story. I think that storytelling exposes some in many cases our deepest insecurity. And there's this misunderstanding of story that we have to go and write a fictional, compelling narrative. But really, all we have to do is look inside. I mean, in the case of the leaders I was talking about earlier, you know, dig deep and explore the reason why you started doing what you're doing. And I think that's where you start writing the narrative of the organization, because that's what's going to compel other people to do the same thing that you did in that moment. And you don't have to be, you know, sure, there's production quality when it comes to story and marketing production and all those things. But if all we're ever concerned about is that excellence and we're never trying to find the root of the story, then we're never going to get anywhere. And so I think it's just as simple as looking inside and saying, you know, why did I why did I really start on this pathway on my own, and how can I tell other people about that journey?
SPEAKER_00Right. And I love what Simon Sinek said. He said, uh, people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it. Powerful, powerful. Well, Taylor, tell us what you're working on this month that you're excited about.
SPEAKER_01So we just launched a new uh actually storytelling site for Compassion International for their uh magazine publication. It's magazine.compassion.com. I had a pretty heavy hand uh in that project that's been really exciting. Uh, we've been working on a uh video-based uh small group platform that will basically it exists to augment the church small group model by providing video-based content that small groups engage with individually and it has some social connectivity, commenting, and engagement, and the small group comes together in person to discuss the material. So kind of turning the small group model upside down with the use of uh digital tools. That's been uh that's been really cool. Um we're working on some other sort of internal projects that I can't uh necessarily disclose, and our team is actually uh it's kind of amazing. We have 27 active projects, as as of the report I got this morning of things that we're we're diving into. So lots of things swirling around. Um those are two things I've had a pretty heavy hand in lately that I think are uh worth celebrating. But um lots of great things going on, and uh you can always check out our website. Like I said, we're gonna be updating it soon. We're gonna have uh some resources coming out uh that I think uh people will be very interested in that we're you know we're aiming to just seed things out uh into the uh into the wild.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And you're on Twitter, right? Is that where you spend a lot of your time as far as social media?
SPEAKER_01I am on Twitter. I mean I'm gonna be I'm just gonna confess to you, Darren, that I am not the greatest social media uh person. However, if you reach out to me on Twitter, uh I'm just Taylor Lee Jones, that's uh L-E-E, Taylor Lee Jones. Uh I'll definitely uh you know try to hit you back. Uh and we are whiteboard dot or whiteboard is uh whiteboard is on Twitter with no dot. Um so and we have a you know people on our team who are who are always uh monitoring that and would love to connect with anybody who's listening to the show and uh and find if there's ways we can help or collaborate or or simply just connect to each other, it'd be great.
SPEAKER_00Beautiful. Well, go follow Taylor. I just followed him. I need to go follow Whiteboard as well. Uh well, Taylor, this has been incredible. Thank you so much for coming on to share your time. I know you've got 27 projects to go and uh work on, so I won't take any more of your time, but I know our listeners really appreciate it. Keep uh doing great things for God in the marketplace.
SPEAKER_01My pleasure, Darren. It's been great to be on the show. Thanks again, and uh look forward to talking soon.
SPEAKER_00That's all for this week. You can comment on this episode and give more information about how to partner with God in your business at theologyofbusiness.com. You can also connect with me and Theology of Business on Twitter and Facebook, and you can email me at Darren at hybridgebooks.com if you have any questions or comments related to theology of business. Thanks for listening and keep partnering with God in your business.