This week's episode, part two of a two-part series on spiritual gifts in the marketplace with cybersecurity expert and entrepreneur Paul Williams. Welcome back to Theology of Business. I'm your host, Darren Scheer, author of the book Marketing Like Jesus, and this is the show that helps marketplace leaders to partner with God in business to make a greater impact in society and in eternity. If you want to learn more about how to do business for the glory of God, this show is for you. This is a podcast by Christian business leaders for Christian business leaders. The decision to start publishing blog posts consistently has been one of the best decisions I've ever made. It's helped me to find my voice, to master my subject, and to change people's lives. If you're interested in starting and developing your own blogging website, I want to invite you to a free webinar that I'll be teaching on April the 16th at 11 a.m. Central Time. This webinar is titled How to Start a WordPress Blogging Website. If you'd like to attend this free live event, you can register at highbridgebooks.com forward slash webinar. Today we're going to be discussing the question of how to use our spiritual gifts in the marketplace and should we be using our spiritual gifts in business? Of course, we know that we ought to be using our spiritual gifts for the building up of the church. The Apostle Paul, of course, wrote a length about that. And so we're going to be exploring this question and specifically how God would intend for our spiritual gifts to be used in the marketplace. And we're we're joined by Paul Williams. He's a nationally known information security expert, and he's currently the chief technology officer with the White Badger Group, which is an information security company based out of Pennsylvania. Paul has consulted for numerous Fortune 500 businesses, U.S. government agencies, and he's a regular lecturer and highly sought-after speaker. He's a remarkable man, a friend of mine. He's got an incredible passion for God, which is very evident in how he approaches his business, as you'll hear about today, and it's an honor to have him. Thanks for coming on the Theology of Business podcast, Paul.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Darren. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01So I just shared a brief introduction, but tell us a bit more about your experience in business and your experience in the church and kind of how these experiences have contributed to shaping your views on business.
SPEAKER_00Oh, great question, Darren. Well, let me start in reverse order there. You know, my father was a uh lay pastor of sorts that led a group of uh devout Christian believers up in the Tennessee Mountains. And, you know, there we were raised of no running water or electricity or telephone service. You know, we were far from that infrastructure and and uh even road system for for for the first couple of years in mail service, cut off from everything. And my father passionately believed in witnessing and ministering, so we would periodically a couple times a year bundle up and get a bunch of tracks and stuff and march down and and uh invade churches and just forcibly pass out stuff, and and that gave me a really bad taste about witnessing, uh need to say. And of course, uh growing older and left home and you know, joined some churches and uh mostly um in in the last 20 years we've been going all to 15 years, all non-denominational evangelical charismatic churches, but a lot of them have a real heavy emphasis on witnessing. And you know, I'm a man of business and I like to take care of business and to make business deals. And the two don't seem to go together. You you go to witness and you risk offending people, and it was awkward, it was stiff, gave very little results, and I thought, what's the point? So that was the the backdrop of my experience. It was bad as a teenager and it was been bad to the last uh two, three years, and so I was like, let's just not do this.
SPEAKER_01So it was almost like uh like a you weren't Amish or Mennonite, but it was that type of uh of a situation where there was basically like a vow of poverty of sorts, right?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, getting ready for the end of the world and all those things, you know, and I mean completely cut. This wasn't country, this was abandoned wilderness to the horizon, but we still made a point to periodically get out and pick on some church and just come in with the Bibles and just take over. And it was left a real bad impression about witnessing.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, but education was uh huge priority for your father, right?
SPEAKER_00Oh, major. Entirely homeschooled, you know, all the way through uh high school. And actually well into college. He, you know, but by uh by the time I was 14, he claimed I had a uh master's degree education in 12 different fields of science. Of course, having no exposure to the outside world or even television, how would you know? And but it wasn't until age 30 I found out that a lot of that was was actually true. So pretty pretty amazing background and homeschool education.
SPEAKER_01So you've obviously had quite a journey. Tell us about kind of where you are in business right now.
SPEAKER_00Well, in business, we do very elite niche work, you might say, with some of the world's biggest networks, everything from foreign intelligence, economic investigations, uh working with different uh government agencies, uh cyber account intelligence, um, a lot of human intelligence type stuff. And it's gaining ground. We're we're doing some things to help make organizations that have had troubles with groups like hackers uh immensely more secure. And uh so we're having a lot of fun. And uh that's the business side of it.
SPEAKER_01All right. And and so, but you've had quite a journey over the past couple of years, especially. Can you kind of walk us through a little bit of that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I had a really, real painful uh business failure four years ago that really put me on my knees and like, Lord, you know, what are you trying to teach me? And you know, having studied the journeys of the children of Israel, where they were stuck in the desert, went round and round for complaining. I I I personally uh may have sometimes in my mind thought a little bit, but for the last two, three years after that, really focused on Lord, what are you trying to teach me? And of course, I I couldn't see any anything in it, but now looking back, I see it's lessons of patience. And I had really got to the point where my business success to me depended upon my own actions, and I was asking God to bless it. And so for anyone listening out there that's running a business, a small business, your business ownership, I'd I'd just like to urge you to try to begin thinking differently. Instead of thinking like I have talents and I have skills and I've got education, I've got all these business contacts, and God is blessing them. I now look at it that all that can go away. The rug was pulled out from under my company through uh no fault of those running it, but uh suddenly and uh just it was terrible. And I went from uh three and a half million dollars up to negative 270,000 in a single day, and you struggle with bitterness, and God, you know, we lost house and home and cars and everything else, and we're still dealing with an aftermath. But along the way, I learned that never again to look at it like I'm earning money for my family. You know, the come home, hey honey, I got a raise. No, no, no, no. Is you know, it is God Himself who is doing it. He doesn't need my help. He asks us to work hard because whatever you do, like in Ephesians, Colossians, do with all your soul and all your strength and all my might. But God is able to provide and do things on a scale I never imagined that go far beyond my ability. So now I've got it straight. I come home, honey. God gave us a raise, not, hey, honey, I'm the breadwinner. I bring us a raise. Hey, you know, look what I did. No, not anymore. It's it's God.
SPEAKER_01So wow. That's uh that's convicting, you know, because it is tempting as as entrepreneurs, we um we have a tendency to want to kind of go out on our own and do our own thing because of I think there's some of that that gratification that we get of being in charge and kind of being in control of things. And and and you realize when you have these, I mean, and I've had some uh some business failures uh like what you're talking about, just not nearly on that on that scale, you know, with with a whole lot of zeros at the end of it, but you learn to be dependent on God as an entrepreneur. Uh, because I mean you can't look to your employer anymore. I mean, you basically have to really look. I mean, there's the chain of command, it goes you know, from you to God basically. And um, and so you have to really trust in him. So, so you've you've had uh a lot of ups and downs, and and kind of where are you at present with your business?
SPEAKER_00Well, the business is going great. We have started finally, you know, all the customers we lost, we regained a lot of them. Um, some we have not pursued, uh the smaller ones in particular. Uh we've now branched off once again doing both government work as well as uh, of course, a lot of commercial work. The size of the jobs has uh pretty much creduked in the last year. We've just signed our first long-term engagement and more on the way. And, you know, all of a sudden I'm happy. And I'm not happy because the money's flowing. I'm happy because now I'm understanding the lessons the Lord was teaching me the whole time. I mean, I've really got it. The the confirmation has come in through multiple things, from scripture, from the inward witness, through the witness of those who have the gift of the word of knowledge, and just realizing that God loves me too much to let me go on thinking. I mean, I literally did. You with the kind of education I have, the the kind of test scores I've pulled all my life, you know, always being best and top of the class and everything. When I finally did get to some college in later life, you know, always dominating everything I do. You know, it's like, no wonder I'm succeeding. God's blessing me. But now I realize, you know, God gives, God takes away. You could lose all that in the instant and become totally dependent upon God for just food day-to-day to basis. And we were there. And now I realize, very humbled, God, you alone, you are bringing the man every day. I'm just going out there collecting it, but I'm not doing anything. So complete change of attitude.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. Well, I've heard a lot more about your journey, and I I wish we could share more, but we want to get into our topic uh specifically. You've given us a great kind of backdrop framework to understand your perspective on this topic, but but should spiritual gifts be used in business? What do you think about that?
SPEAKER_00Oh, absolutely. Uh you know, you've heard my background where I was pretty much poisoned on that. But I guess what I've learned is yes, spiritual gifts should be used in business, but how? It it's in my view, Darren, it's when we want to do something for the Lord, but we don't have a good strategy, we don't have a good plan to do it. We ended up right embarrassing ourselves, it gets awkward, and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. See, I told you it wasn't going to work, and now we're burned and we don't try again. So, yes, absolutely. But I'm passionate about doing it right, and the Lord has blessed me to develop some methods to do that that resonate with people, and uh hopefully it will be of uh value.
SPEAKER_01Well, tell me, what are your spiritual gifts and how do you use those in business?
SPEAKER_00Well, the Lord's blessed me with several gifts that are pretty uh pronounced, is one is a very strong spirit of discernment, is uh very strong. It's it's the first Corinthians chapter 12, the gift of the Holy Ghost for those who have the infilling of the Holy Ghost as evidence in speaking in tongues. And I know a lot of times the emphasis in some charismatic churches is speaking in tongues, but there's nine gifts of the spirit. That's what I consider to be a gateway gift, but there's others, and and so the discernment of spirits is very strong. I'll I'll almost immediately, when I say almost immediately, it's usually before even shaking hands, that something's wrong with this person, or this is a good person that's badly deceived, or whatever. And the details will come later. So um sometimes a person can approach me from behind, and I'll already know coming up behind is a person that's uh very much into greed or whatever, lust, whatever. And and that's not always, but a lot of times before I even meet the person, I can already sense they're coming.
SPEAKER_01And that's incredibly useful in your line of work because you're basically profiling people professionally, right?
SPEAKER_00We do that as well. We have uh the natural gift. God gives natural gifts like plumbing and copper gene and so forth. He's also given me a great gift of assessing body language and body stances and the way people speak and use their hands and can tell a huge amount about people. But those again are more the generalities. There's nothing like another gift God's given me is the word of knowledge, where all of a sudden sometimes the person's life runs off like a movie. I'll see a vision, you know, while while talking to the person and just realize here's here's what they did as a child, here's what they're gonna do, you know, the word of wisdom. And God does these things. The Holy Spirit does these things, you know, he gives these gifts as he decides. And uh, we're just dependent upon God alone that uh to to provide us with these gifts and equip us to use them.
SPEAKER_01Well, give us a story of of what that looks like in the marketplace when you have uh begun to exercise that gift. What what's a scenario that you would want to share?
SPEAKER_00You know, sometimes God uh just loves us so much that He He just wants to prepare us for a heartbreak. Uh we had uh two years ago when we thought we were coming out of the company crash I told you about. And we had won a very sizable major job with a uh big company up north, and we're industriously working away, and we'd already done I don't know, a good, you know, it was a it was a lot of work, a good half million dollars worth of work in the first two, three months, and we thought this job would run for several years, and we were planning and hiring based on it. If you're a business person out there, the last thing you want to do is either fail to hire enough people to staff correctly a job you've won. You've got to hire in advance to train, to vet, to get people on board and up to speed, and we hire, you know, top 1% guys. On the other hand, if you hire them and you're obligated to them, particularly in our business, you do a lot of contracts, guaranteed salary in some cases, you know, you're on the hook for that money, you know, that contract falls through. So God warned me. This wasn't something I prayed about. I was thanking God for the job, but one morning I was studying the Bible, and clear as day, I mean, just a vision ran off like a movie. That I saw another company came in there, I heard what they said, I saw the people, I saw the names, I was I stood there in the meeting and watched them do it.
SPEAKER_01This was a vision, a vision you were.
SPEAKER_00I was fully awake, I was not sleeping. Again, I just I could talk all day long about the amazing gifts of the Holy Spirit. None of these things happened, Darren, prior to going to Bible college uh four years ago, and since three years in Bible college and becoming ordained minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ, hallelujah. You know, I've had a very exciting life, but when the gifts of the Spirit fell on me, I mean, I'm talking about blown away. Nothing like that had ever happened in my life. And you just say, God says that if you pray and ask the Father for the Holy Spirit, he's not going to give you a stone, he's gonna give you the Holy Spirit. And I prayed and fasted and I saw it and I wept before the Lord, and I 21 days passed, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit fell on me at the end, you know, and so I'm standing here. I mean, when when God does this, it is not a dream, it's not a vision, it's not a faint shadow in your mind. My my physical eyes are seeing. I mean, again, I stood there in person, in in I stood there in person and looking into this room, and there's 13 people in the room. I can see the clothes they had on, I could draw everything. I saw what they drew on the board, I saw the logo of the company, I didn't know its name, but guess what? I told the guys, we just lost this job. And no one believed me. But within three weeks, when there was a dead silence, they weren't returning our calls, we finally found out they canceled it, and guess what? The very logo that I won't describe it because you know this company, but the very logo I had uh, or you could know the company, excuse me, but the very logo I had described as seeing that ended up being the logo of the company that took our business. God basically spared us a possible disaster because we were busy hiring, we were building plans, we're, you know, taking out loans for cars, all the things you do to get back on your feet, and guess what? Because of God's warning, we found out before we did those things. Hallelujah. Praise the name of God. Left our own resources, we'd be stuck.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Well, the Bible says that a man's gift makes room for him and brings him before great men. Do you have a story of when your gift, this this gift to be able to discern, brought you before great men?
SPEAKER_00Oh, absolutely. Oh, I mean, constantly, Darren, it is like on a you know, weekly, semi, semi-monthly, weekly basis that somebody will tell me, a decision maker, privately, usually away from, in fact, as a rule, away from everyone else, and say, look, I you know, like your company, like the other guys, but there's something about you. What is that? We had uh the long-term contract I told you that we signed back in October, our first long-term contract, and the chief operating officer actually pulled me aside on the second day of this job and said, What is it about you? And this guy is a hard brawling, you know, he you know, he's a drinker. He's a tough dude. He's not a Christian, you know. And but he said, There's something about you. When I look at you, when I walk, there's just something. I don't know what it is, but what is that? I've asked my other executives, and they say, Well, he's just an articulate, he's very sharp. He said, No, that's not it. There's something else. What is that? He says, I feel it right now. What is it? And I raised my right hand. So I'm the servant, I'm a servant of the Most High God. God blesses everything I do, everything I do. He said, He'll bless your whole company because you've heard me. And what that man said, he he sat back and said, You know, I was actually hoping you're gonna say something like that. He said, I'm not a Christian, but if I ever was, it'd be because of you. I I'm I hear that over and over. Two days ago, same thing, you know, as uh Saturday, same thing. It's if I ever was a Christian, it'd be because of you. So Hallelujah. Blessed be the name of the Lord.
SPEAKER_01And it sounds it sounds like a Joseph story, and I think that's kind of what that proverb was alluding to, to these situations where we begin to step out in our gifts, and like as it was with Joseph, I mean, he went from the from the prison, I mean, from the pit to the prison to the palace, I mean, but he was in he was in jail before before he got elevated into that that prime minister level position because he basically said, I know the he said that the answer is not in me, but God knows the answer. And he will give the answer. And and so I think uh you know, and it goes back to what you were sharing earlier, if if we would be willing to just give God the credit, to give God the glory, I mean there's no limit to what I mean. There's a quote that says there's no there's no end to what you can accomplish as long as you don't care who gets the credit. And you know, typically we're thinking about you know giving credit to other people, but what about God? What about giving credit and glory to God for the ways in which He sovereignly moves us strategically into the right places with the right gifting at the right time, you know, for such a time as this, if we would just be willing to as you said, just say, I'm the servant of the most high God. Like that's that's why you're seeing this. And basically, they I because I think we complicate workplace evangelism because really it's not necessarily people when it says be ready to give a reason for the hope that's within you, you got asked that question. It just sounded a little bit differently. Basically, what is it about you, Paul? He wanted to know the answer to that. Workplace evangelism isn't necessarily going in there and saying you don't know God, you need to know God, you're a sinner, you know, Christ died for you. You know, you'll you'll get there, but typically it's gonna start with using your gift, and the Holy Spirit will get somebody's attention as he did with you, and and I've heard several other stories from you along these lines.
SPEAKER_00Oh my goodness, Darren, you're right on point. I mean, we'll ease into the topic. That's one. Let me give you another. That one's kind of easy because he asked. Here's one that's in between. Um, co-worker, I won't say her name, but uh uh we were going to Bible college, and she shared that at her job there was a lot of acrimony and discord and rancor, and having knew this individual well prior to Bible college, uh uh deduced that it was not her. She's an extremely peaceable, mild, gentle person. And so uh we were praying for relief, and God uh actually showed me like the second or third time she mentioned it in Bible college, that next morning showed me an amazing vision. I and by the way, when God does this, there's no explanation. He doesn't say, Here's what you're seeing, and you have to figure it out, at least for me. But all of a sudden, I'm standing in look like we're the second or third floor of an office complex of cubicles, and I could see over top of this uh this woman's back, the stuff in her cubicle. I can I actually could draw it and hold it up to somebody and say, Yeah, that that's my cubicle, you know, the place I've never been. And I could see this hallway, and here was a lady. I could feel the enmity. The discernment of spirits works even in the vision, and I could just feel the enmity. The hatred was centering from a blonde-haired woman that had a picture of a dog in some other calendar on the outside of her cubicle, and I could see that was the center of it. By looking around the room, you could actually feel at the water cooler, but in particular at that woman. Then I saw our friend, my wife and I's friend, she was walking around anointing the place of oil when they were gone to lunch. So just like that, the vision broke. So I we talked to her, and my And I, and we said, 'Here's what the Lord showed me.' If you'll wait for them to go to lunch, take a bottle of oil in the name of Jesus, rebuke the spirit of discord, touch all the cubicles, in particular hers. Okay, this is why she doesn't even know. Okay, and and guess what? She from then on, we followed that. The last I asked her was six months later, but that was the end of it. All the rancor, the discord, the backbiting, the completely stopped. God, see, we she's thinking, what did I do? But the Bible says we battle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers. So Satan is stirring up the evil spirits in these people, interacting with the God in her, and God provides a solution. And guess what? Without even saying anything to them, the problem solved.
SPEAKER_01Wow. I love how Paul he wrote to the church at Colossae and he singled out this one guy, Archipis, and said, Take heed to the ministry which you have received in the Lord that you may fulfill it. And and that isn't necessarily he wasn't necessarily just saying that, oh, by the way, this ministry is only going to be used when you come to church on Sunday. You know, it's it's gonna be used in your in your entire life. I mean, seven days a week. I mean, it the the spiritual gifts, you can't put them in a box. No, you know, and I mean, even just you take the spiritual gift of evangelism, for example, like it's it's implied that this is a gift that happens among lost people, you know, and and this discernment of spirits that you're walking in. And uh, I mean, I I know that you have other gifts as well, but this is certainly one of the more prominent gifts that you walk in. I just love to hear about how you are operating in that in the business in a business setting. Is there another story that that comes to mind?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I've got another one. We're we're going up the food train, trying to trying to ease into it. And at some point it's gonna get kind of radical, but we haven't got there yet. But uh still easing into it. Let's talk about a coworker, uh, excuse me, a contractor of ours. I won't again give a name, but maybe two, three years ago we had a contractor that, you know, these guys come and go. We've got a bunch of them. They do uh what do you call like individual, you know, uh more or less bit rolls on things, but they're very important for what they do. So sometimes if you don't see them, I mean, you know, unless they tell me something's wrong, I won't know. And one of our contractors hadn't seen for a month, and and I heard something was wrong with his back, but you know, I I didn't follow up because again, I fly all over the country, speak all over the world. So uh, but one day I got a call. I happened to be in Minnesota at the time one evening and on business, and he called and said, you know, Paul, could you pray for my back? And I said, absolutely, you know, and because because I mean I've been healed myself since going to Bible college, 110 tumors in my chest healed, so that's giving me a very strong gift of healing, you know, a gift of faith. And so absolutely, what do you need prayer for? And he says, Well, my back, it was hurting so bad, he's on steroids, he's got two leaking discs in his back, and he had a bed sore. His wife was having trouble turning him over. It was so bad that he wasn't getting turned enough and had a bed sore. It's excruciating. He would scream despite the painkillers and the steroid and all that. So, can you pray that the pain gets better? And I says, What do you mean about the pain getting better? Do you believe the Son of God can heal you right here, right now? And again, he's in Houston, where I live. And uh, of course, you know, it's a Pennsylvania-based company, but I was in Minnesota at the time. And he goes, Can Jesus do that? And so, absolutely. I'm quoting scriptures to him, such as your faith be it to you. You know, Jesus said, Whatever you ask the Father in my name, I will do. You know, I quote several of the more obvious healing scriptures to him, and very quickly he said, I believe Jesus can heal me right now. So I pray with him, you know, we don't need to pray on and on, working our faith up. In the name of Jesus, I command those sickness to leave your back now. In the name of Jesus, you're healed. That's it. Just like that. He says, Well, my back still hurts. Wait a minute. Jesus said that those who ask me for something must believe you have received it, and you will get out of bed and walk on it. And he says, for some reason now, Daryl, Darren, I don't know why he did this. He could have just said, Well, I'm gonna get out of bed. Instead, you know, rise and walk, in other words. But uh, he decided to get this deer out the back of a truck. His friends had shot a deer, left it for him like 4 a.m. because he couldn't go on the annual hunting trip. So, step by painful step, his wife helped him to that truck 70 feet away. She said he was just screaming and hollering. She kept saying, You're not healed, go back to bed. No, I'm gonna get that deer. He finally gets to the deer. He says, Help me put my hands under that deer. And he lifted that deer and brought it in, instantly healed in Jesus' name. Again, why he did it that way, I don't know, but that's what he did. So, again, there's a story from work. Here's someone at a work situation on, you know, basically that any employer can do that. Jesus said, Believers will do the works I did, in fact, greater things, because I'm going to the Father.
SPEAKER_01Jesus left his name there that uh that he used a deer in that situation. And and that's the thing about the way Jesus would would operate in in the gifts in the marketplace was and of course he you know Jesus is the embodiment of of the gifts, but but he would never do it the same the same way twice. And and I think in our in our institutional church we like that predictability. Like we like if we're gonna heal somebody, it means you know, you line them up down front, you know, you tap them on the forehead, and people get healed that way. Like absolutely. But out in the workplace, in the marketplace, it's you know, you don't have fire tunnels, you know, you don't have uh you don't necessarily have uh a platform, uh altar to bring people in front of and line them up. I mean, it you gotta you gotta think outside the box and let the Holy Spirit just kind of do what he wants to do, however he wants to do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean it was amazing, you know, 1500 miles away. Uh, you know, I just got back from a consulting engagement and uh about to go to dinner, and he's in Houston, and God's power is everywhere. Again, he said, believers will do these things. He didn't just say you're pastor or some evangelist or just Paul Williams or Terrence here. Believers, are you a believer? Talking to the listener. Well, then Jesus said he'll do the same thing for you.
SPEAKER_01Well, what would you say to somebody that maybe they have never they have never stepped out in what in church circles we would consider more of a charismatic type of a of a gifting, like you're talking about with healing, the gift of uh you know, the gift of faith, believing God for the miraculous, uh, discernment of spirits. Like there's certain people that are listening that are coming from a denominational background that hasn't really talked about those types of gifts. And I think some of it too is that people in depending on what their background is, tend to gravitate toward uh certain groups of Christians because they have similar giftings. Um, for example, teaching and um and administration and leadership, like some of those things are some of those giftings like we we can see lost people that are gifted administrators, like people that are not born-again Christians, gifted administrators, but yet Paul talks about how administration is a spiritual gift. So, how do you kind of make the distinction between a natural gift? I mean, like I said, it's easier to see it with something like healing, because if you're not if if if it's not a spiritual gift of healing, you can't truly heal somebody, I don't believe. But if you're if you have if you have a natural gift of administration and you're not born again, you could still administrate.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01You know what I mean? So that's so there's a little bit of a tension. What do you what would you say to somebody about that?
SPEAKER_00Well, starting back at the beginning, I I I like to go by the whole Bible. Jesus said, you know, the Apostle Paul said, don't argue about doctrine. You know, the main thing is Jesus Christ. So if you're a Baptist or Methodist and you firmly believe the things in the book of Acts, the miracles, the signs, and wonders, are not for today, is I would say you're right, and here's why. Jesus said, such as your faith is, be it to you. If you don't believe those things are for you today, then guess what? By definition, going by Jesus' word, you're correct. They're not for you. But I also believe conversely, if you do believe those things are for you, that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, day, and forever, then guess what? By definition, you're also correct. But because such as your faith is, so be it to you. And if you want to do those things, the first thing is the infilling of the Holy Ghost. The natural gifts are the things we're born with that we show talent from an early age, whether it's a propensity to. There's the learned skills we have, but nothing explains the ability for someone who is dying of cancer, or here, for example, someone with uh, there's been some people with like fused bones instantly have joints all of a sudden. You know, no amount of natural gifts can do that. That is the supernatural, amazing gifts of the Holy Ghost. So I am prompt to talk to members of the ecumenical movement and say, look, we don't make a religion of the Holy Ghost. We make a religion out of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the way, the truth, the life. No man comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit does not speak of his own, he speaks of Jesus. So let's make Jesus the front and center. But to speak to those who only do that, you're missing out on the optional free gift of the Holy Ghost that gives the fire, the desire, and the ability to go off. And just the Holy Spirit doing things that accepting Jesus Christ gets you saved. You know, stay on the path, right? But the optional free gift of the Holy Ghost, as demonstrated in the book of Acts, is available for all who want to go beyond. The power to fight sin and temptation. It works the same way. You can um can I give an example?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00All right, so speaking to the men, you know, let's let's get the ladies to put their hands over the ears. I won't be too graphic, but we all know, we're we're adults here, that men are very vigil when it comes to uh, you know, men are very visual when it comes to other sex and and going through Bible college and just realizing I needed to get to a much higher standard in my walk of God, not just in my actions, which have been pure toward my wife, but my thoughts. That's where men struggle, even in the church, you know, even in the church. And uh, you know, more than half the men in average church, ecumenical or not, are on pornography right now, a quarter of the pastor says, Oh, speaking to you, God is a God of compassion. Jesus says, go and sin no more. Let me tell you what I did is I actually used the name of Jesus to rebuke those images in my mind. I said, Father, there's there's songs when they come on the radio, they remind me of when I met this person or saw this or that, or there's these things keep coming back. And I'm walking pure, but these things keep coming back. And the Holy Spirit led me to do this in the name of Jesus. I rebuke those images. Again, we have the right to rebuke Satan and all his works. You're talking to a guy that believes whatever means whenever. Jesus said, Whatever you ask the Father in my name, I will do. And you're talking to a guy who believes that with all my heart, soul, and mind that that means that. So I rebuke that, and guess what? I cannot remember. Now I know it's completely gone. Now, some of you are thinking, oh yeah, how do you prove that? Guess what? I prove it because you fast, you pray, the gifts of the Holy Spirit following you. You use the name of Jesus, rebuke those images. And when they're gone, then you'll know I'm correct. Because God will do this for anyone who asks in faith.
SPEAKER_01Amen. That's such a great practical example. All right, Paul. Well, you promised us one last story that was gonna get a little bit more radical, so go ahead and share that with us.
SPEAKER_00All right, Dan, here you go. Now, if you've uh if you're out here listening and you didn't like or don't agree with what you heard so far or uncomfortable with it, then you may want to just turn off the block. Nope, don't do that. We need ratings there for trend show. But anyway, this is not for you. This is not for you. But literally, Jesus said, Whatever you ask the Father in my name, I will do. I actually have done this a number of times. Let's say you're talking to two executives from some major company. Okay, I'm an executive, I'm business suit and tie, I'm about business, I gotta win the deals. But I want to witness too. The Spirit of God is so strong emanating out of those who have this gift that they can people know right away you're different. And not just different, they can tell you're different than ordinary Christians they see. So one of the executives on my left gets very something about you. Tell me your story. I can see where this is going. He's about to receive Jesus Christ as his personal savior. But the guy on the right, he's not demonically possessed, but he's certainly oppressed. That spirit is reacting. I don't want to hear it. Guess what? In the name of Jesus, I command you to leave and don't come back until I'm done ministering. And guess what? I pray in my head, and on the spot, the person will get up and walk away and stay on and stay on until you're done ministering. How about this? You're witnessing the cell, and the cell phone is going nonstop. In the name of Jesus, I rebuke that cell phone. Don't ring again until I'm done ministering. It will die. They cannot physically turn on, it will stay off. Because why? I will do whatever you ask the Father in my name, I will do. And again, God has blessed me with a strong gift of faith. I believe that with all my heart. We have no excuse not to witness. We can create opportunities. I don't have to wait for one. Glory be to God. Again, he gave Jesus cursed the fig tree. And he says, if you have a grain of faith the size of a mustard speed, you can speak to this mount to a cast in the sea. I believe that. Not because I understand it, because I choose to believe it and act on it, and God is faithful to do what he said. Hallelujah.
SPEAKER_01Amen. Amen. Well, Paul, this has been phenomenal. I I wish we could continue on for another uh several hours. We'll have to do that offline, I suppose. But um, but tell us as we as we close, what are you working on this month that you're excited about? And uh well, knowing in your line of work, it's probably some secret squirrel type uh stuff that you can't too share too much about. But uh but let us know where people can connect with you.
SPEAKER_00Well, Darren, uh, you know, I'm working on a Bible devotional book. In fact, uh Lord willing, you'll be the publisher. And it's uh hybrid books. And I tell you what, hybrid books. Uh to build my mailing list, uh, we've got several hundred names on it already, but to build my mailing list, if you would like a copy, all the scriptures, the story of myself getting healed, it is a Bible-based book. This is not one scripture and a bunch of talk, but just scripture is not interpreting the word of God. But God show me again and again. If you believe the Bible literally as written without interpretation, not because you understand it, but because God said it. The power of God flows in signs, wonders, and miracles. If you'd like to know more and like to get a pre-copy of the book, again, it is an e-book. You would, you know, there will be a printed book. We'll be selling later at cost. Again, we're after sales, but write me at PWILL2000 at gmail.com. P as in Paul, W-I-L-L 2000, and you will get a free copy. It puts you on the news list that will only be used when we announce the book is being published. There you go.
SPEAKER_01All right. Is that going to be the unclassified or the classified version?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, everything to do with the Holy Spirit is classified. If you don't, the things of the spirit cannot be understood. So it's classified.
SPEAKER_01That sounds like another good, another good book title. Um, all right. Well, Paul, as we wrap it down here, I'd love for you to pray for our listeners. Um, that that God would just that we would stir up the gifts that are in us, that the Holy Spirit would would bring to our attention, the gifts that that he has entrusted to us and how he wants to use wants us to use those on a daily basis in the marketplace.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Darren, since you said that, the Holy Ghost just flashed how to pray. So here we go. Father God, in the name of Jesus, there are people right now listening to the show, their hearts are burning within them, Father God, and I pray that they rest neither day nor night. This becomes the most driving thing of their life, the most important thing of their life, to put everything aside, to search the scriptures to see if these things are so, Father God, that they will fast and pray, Lord, though claim that when you ask the Father for the Holy Spirit, he's not going to give you a stone. He's going to give you the Holy Ghost, Father. And they will not rest. This is the most important thing, Father God. You will gift them with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gives different gifts to different ones as he desires. So the body of Christ working together makes a healthy whole. And there are people, and I pray against the power of Satan, trying to discourage and dissuade them, uh, make them find other things to do, Father God, but they will not rest until their quest is successful. In the name of Jesus, we pray this blessing. Amen.
SPEAKER_01That's all for this week. Our question of the week is should we as Christians use our spiritual gifts in the marketplace? You can leave your response to this question in the show notes for this episode at theologyofbusiness.com. And as a reminder, if you're interested in starting and developing your own blogging website, I want to invite you to a free webinar that I'll be teaching on April the 16th at 11 a.m. Central Time. The webinar is how to start a WordPress blogging website. And if you'd like to attend this free live event, you can register at hybridcoats.com forward slash webinar. Thanks for listening and keep partnering with God in your business.