Episode 5 Samuel Drucker/Camano Island Miniature Wargamers

In this episode Kevin and Steve talk with Sam Drucker. Sam is part of the Camano Island Miniature Wargamers and author of Matchlocks & Witchcraft.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1005840233569423

https://www.wargamevault.com/en/browse?keyword=sam%20drucker

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:06

You are listening to Tanks and Tomahawks, a miniature war gaming podcast in the Pacific Northwest. I'm Steve and I'm here with Kevin. Hey, how's it going, Steve? Good, good. And we have Sam Drucker on the on the show today. Sam, is Sam okay or do you like Samuel? I guess I should ask that.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

No, Sam is actually perfect. Samuel's just what I officially do online.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Yeah. Well, we really appreciate you joining us today and being part of this. So uh we're still kind of learning as we go along here, but I think we've got most of the the major stuff figured out. So it's been uh it's been pretty smooth the last couple recordings. So really excited to have you on.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yeah, thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

All right, I'll turn it over to Kevin.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Okay, well, Sam, how long have you been miniature wargaming and what got you started in the hobby?

SPEAKER_00 1:30

That's always a good question. I it it's been a long time, but there's a huge gap in there where I stepped away. Uh but originally it was middle school. My one of my best friends, his dad, was an avid 40k player, and he got my friends and I hooked. And uh it was fun to go over to the house and see his space marines all just splayed out on the table and be like, what is what is this? Uh, because my family was no had no experience in it. And uh one time he took us, my friend and I, to Wiz Wizards of the Coast, uh look at a store location in Oakland, California at the time. And I had like 20 bucks, and I was determined to get something, because I'm like, I gotta start this. Like I'm already addicted. Hadn't even done anything yet. And the only thing I could afford was a little box of uh I took on Tyranids because my friends all took up everybody else, and I was mulling it over, nobody else wanted them, but I was like, this is pretty cool. And so I just yeah, I went home that weekend, got some little bit of paints and poorly painted those little guys. I don't even think I primed them. I think I just base coated them and was super happy about it. I still have them packed away, and I always look at them, but yeah, and then as soon as we got to high school, that sort of you know stepped aside, you know, it was set aside because we were trying to focus on other things, being social, getting out of the house. And uh and then I joined the military, and then it just it was sh stored away, and eventually I I wanted to get back to it. Um I was into board gaming for a while there and the pandemic hit, actually. So we're fast forwarding quite a bit. Um and I was found all this free time, so I was like, you know what, I really want to get back into this whole miniature painting thing. I'm not a big I'm not a big painter, so it was kind of a hurdle to take on, but I had the time. So uh long story short, there I I'm here I am. I've I've been doing it since about 2021 or twenty twenty twenty is when I really got back into it full force, and uh I haven't turned back. Now it's just as much as part of my life as my full-time job. So I know this story.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Um did did did you finish your Tyranids? Did you ever get us play with them as Tyranids?

SPEAKER_00 4:05

I did, and I think uh I've won a few times. It was by luck, there was so much you know, dice rolling. This was what, third edition? This was in 2000, 2001 at the time, and I think it was third edition. We got a just a starter set. And um, and I loved, even then, I loved making terrain. Um and I was making out of paper towel rolls and you know, I had uh um, because it's tyranids, I wanted that whole Valhalla um tyranids, Valhalla and Tyranid battle to recreate in the war in the rule book. It was a snowy battlefield, and I had, you know, a white sheet with cotton and all this you know over-the-top stuff just to make it a cool, aesthetically pleasing table for what it was. And it was uh so much fun. Yeah, it was it was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Well, I would just say I think you're a pretty good painter. I've seen your stuff, and for you to say I'm not much of a painter, is like I think being very humble.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

I appreciate that. But yeah, no, it's uh I I it's funny because I think out of all the all the aspects to this hobby, there's so many facets that I love. The painting is probably on the bottom of the list for me. I love all the other stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

All right. Well, um I apologize. I had my uh my list here with me, and now I don't have it. So Kevin, why don't you take the next question?

SPEAKER_03 5:37

Um so do you have a favorite genre, Sam? Do you like historicals or fantasy or sci-fi?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Yeah, it that's a big question for me. I'm one of those guys who loves it all, and honestly, that's probably the biggest part of the problem. I wish I could just, you know, get myself stuck in on a single uh genre, but uh as soon as I do, I look over and I see something else that just is super appealing. And with you know, the algorithms online and on social media, it just feeds that problem so much more. Find myself, you know, clicking by on another thing. And then on top of that, I I love um to write my own games. I've you know, I have uh my hard drive, I probably have ten games that I've written to a certain degree that I'm just that is love to just let my mind run wild on. And um but going back to the question, uh yes, I love historical fantasy, uh a lot of generic stuff as far as fantasy and sci-fi, but I also love very uh IP specific stuff.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Um Do you have a pet set of rules that you've written you'd really like to you'd really are just dying to share?

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Oh well, uh yeah, um I I have written one and self-published uh Wargame Vault already a couple years ago at this point, called Matchlocks and Witchcraft. Um, that I really enjoyed writing. It was it was and that's sort of what comes with all the games I'm writing, is it's a topic that I'm really interested in, but I don't see being gamed uh as much. Or perhaps there's a certain mechanic that I come up with that I think suits the subject well that I build the kind of the game around in a sort of way. Um so that's a game that I've already done and I and I ran at Enfilod uh previously. But uh for this on Enfilod, I'm I've been cooking up uh this past year, I've been cooking up a new game called uh People's State, which is a protest-themed game. Uh somewhat controversial topic, but the game really focuses on something that that other protest games have not. It's not a game about beating up your opponent, it's a game about optics, intention, and positioning on the table. Uh anyway, it's it's uh it's gonna be a really sweet uh uh game once it's uh finalized.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

Well, we've seen your process building your terrain and stuff, and it just looks amazing. So we're looking forward to the game. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Um real quick, are you gonna run that at Conflict or are you planning?

SPEAKER_00 8:23

I will. I at uh Conflict, uh my uh my my game event. Yeah, yes. I um that all I'm using my event uh to uh act as a sort of um uh a uh testing ground for my for N Falod. I've been play testing my game, but I'm using Conflict as a sort of a method of of getting it out there, running a full full bore exactly how I want to run it for NFLad as well, and uh making sure everything is ironed out in the month prior to NFLad. So uh I will, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

Awesome. Can I ask just one more question about um about your writing? I I've I've kind of come to writing rules really late in my life, and uh never uh and I I was kind of wondering, hey, what what is kind of the inspiration for um for your writing? And does it just kind of come to you and hey, I should do this, or um is there something more um uh uh more planned out and um process driven than that?

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Yeah, um it's with my first game, uh I I it was literally me watching uh the movie The Witch, which if you haven't seen, it's a fantastic folk horror movie, which is very very unlike me because I'm not necessarily a horror person, but I fell in love with the movie. It's very historical in that aspect. And so I was like, man, this would be a cool skirmish game. Um, and so I was like, but I I want to stay true to history and the ideas behind Puritanism and their depictions of witches and all this stuff. Anyway, so I explored that. I researched it. Uh my family and I, we even took a trip out to Salem. And so I was able to hit up those spots and and learn about the history there. And uh got a few books that are uh on my shelf and um and so I ran with that. And then but with these other games that I've come up with, it's it's maybe um a little less nuanced, I you know, with the protests. It's a it's a matter of watching the news and uh and being respectful to it while also finding ways to to elaborate on certain ideas that make a game playable but also relevant and accurate to true to the to the truth. And um it's it's really fun to explore that, not necessarily just to gamify anything I see, but to create an actual um some g give a game some meat that that has some um longevity. And it's uh it's a very fun and a great way to express yourself. Uh a certain art form.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

Very cool.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Uh I think you alluded to it, but you know, uh from a from a hobby standpoint, um, what's your favorite part? Sounds like terrain building, maybe, is your favorite part?

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Terrain's a huge part of it. Um I mean I I I'm not a person who can stand spending more than, you know, uh 15, 20, 30 minutes on a on a couple miniatures. I I but I will probably spend hours doing buildings. Um I I mean for my for my unfilade game, I've I've painted as more modern buildings than I've ever thought I would. And honestly, there's gonna be two more, two more to fill up that huge table at the event.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

We see your study hall in the background there. It looks like that.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Oh, yeah, there it is. Yeah, that's yeah, my my huge that was actually a lot of fun. It's uh custom. I designed it myself in AutoCAD, and I had my friend at Wargamers Orchard laser cut it up for me and just left it together, painted it up. It's um a massive piece, and I have nowhere to store it, hence why it's sitting where it is. And uh my wife comes down and looks at it and is like, where where are we gonna put all this stuff? We'll we'll figure that out later. Maybe we'll get a storage unit outside. I can sympathize.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

I have a storage unit full of terrain.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Oh, yeah. Okay, good. Oh, good. I love it. That's uh good to know. But yeah, I know it's terrain is a huge, a huge thing for me, but um honestly it's creating a scenario and a table that brings people in. Uh a huge part of the hobby for me is to share the hobby, uh, not only just to uh feed my interest, but to just grow grow it in areas where there aren't as many players to introduce them to a hobby that may have never seen before. I get that a lot. Uh one thing I also do or have I've liked to do is sign up to do vendor events locally in my area of Camino Island and Stanwood, Washington. The um gaming community is pretty light, but people are still willing and able to come out and join in. So I do vendor events and run and just set up uh an outdoor game table, a four by four, and run one of my games, perhaps a simple rule set, one-page rules, or or uh dragon rampant, and um just to bring people in and mention the hobby and what I like to do, the local gaming groups, and it's it's driven a lot of interest and uh turns people on to something they've never seen before. A lot of people confuse it with Dungeons and Dragons, which I'm sure a lot of people get. But um I try to make clear exactly what it is, and it's it's grown my group um on Facebook as well. And um I hopefully it's it's slowly growing the wider Puget Sound Pacific Northwest uh scene in a small way.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

But so um so you mentioned Kamano Island, and um uh we've had an an listeners literally download our podcast from everywhere. And so uh for those who are from outside the area, could you kind of um kind of go ahead and describe where Kamano Island is?

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yes, it's uh honestly, until I moved here, I didn't know where it was either. I um I it is an hour north of downtown Seattle, uh, about hour, hour, 15 minutes, depending on traffic. It's one of the few islands in Puget Sound that's drivable. There are no ferries to it. There's one way on, one way off. It's uh Route 4 uh 532 off of the interstate. Um and it cuts through Stanwood. Stanwood's sort of the gateway city to Kamano and serves as sort of a hub. And um and so I live here on the island. It's an island of roughly, I think, 15,000 residents. Um and that includes all the people who have a vacation home here who don't live here. Um it's relatively rural. Um so maybe it's not a destination for everybody to come on a monthly basis, but um for northern Snohomish County and Skaggie County, I hope to sort of gravitate this um uh all the people in this area between Everett and Bellingham to sort of um be a hub uh for them to escape. Because we do not have too many game stores, specifically miniature wargaming game stores. Um just a couple that may or may not have something. But um part of that is that I hold my monthly meetup uh at the library, which is something I um love about what I have here.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

And do you have a particular weekend that you meet?

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Yes, uh every second Saturday of the month. We're on the live the Snow Isle Library calendar. Um on the every second Saturday is guaranteed to be our time from uh two to six. And uh we play a variety of things. Um it's really whatever I'm I'm able to get people to sort of agree upon. Uh sometimes people show up with just uh an army because um it's common for us just to play one of the rampant titles for Monstre, um, whether it's Dragon Rampant or Xenos Rampant, those are very popular with our group. Uh sometimes people have one-offs that they would they want to try, and others are interested in, and hence why I always like to be sure I have enough for at least two people just to throw chuck some dice around. And we tend to get a lot of walk-ins too, because we have because we're in the library, the benefit of that is people who are perusing the books look through the window uh to the meeting space and see that we have these cool things on the table. It looks really awesome. What is this? And then they I've seen them come back um the the next month uh with their kid or uh with a friend, and um it's just is a casual way just to drop in. Anybody's welcome. And um if you're interested, we we we would love to have you.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Yeah. Library meeting spaces are great, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Yes, um thank they're really so.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

And the nice thing with you guys being there, I mean, really, I mean, if you're in the Burlington, Mount Vernon, you know, even Arlington area, that's an easy drive to get to your location. So it's that, you know, the area where you're at, there's there's quite a bit of surrounding towns. You know, and I'm sure there's definitely gamers out there that are looking for someplace to play.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

So yes, it and it's um a lot of times uh there's been a number of times where people have come in or were walking by the window, or um a a friend or a family member was on Facebook, but they are personally not, and so they heard through the grapevine or on the library's schedule of calendar uh schedule of events and see this new and unique thing. Someone said he's he lives on the island, he's been here a long time, and he always plays in his um in his attic or his basement, and uh he has a ton of stuff, and he only just heard about me recently. This was just last year, and uh it's it's been a few years now, and yeah, there's always still people popping up or showing up that are are interested and happy to hear about it.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Well, you've done a great job with it, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

Um, and how many folks do you usually get to turn out?

SPEAKER_00 19:17

It ebbs and flows. Um that's it like I said, it's it's a little tough around here, but I've we've averaged, I don't know, six. It's probably six people or so. Um there have been less, there have been more. We do um uh at um in the month of October, we do a I like to do a Halloween-themed event. And so we um do Halloween rampant, where we use um Xeno's Rampant to run a just a half kooky Halloween game. Anybody brings anything they got. Um and we do a uh we did a 24-point um game last year, and people brought whatever they have. And honestly, what I do like to do with with those kinds of games is get the cheapest, funkiest toys and just slap them on a base. No painting necessary. And they it makes a a silly, you know, silly looking army, but it's it's fun. And uh then following that in December, we like to do our version of Christmas rampant, which I know uh a group of you guys like to do down south.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

Yeah, Bruce Myers' house, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Exactly. And uh we this just last December we had twelve people, which for us was a fantastic turnout.

SPEAKER_03 20:41

Yeah, that's the beauty of uh I think that's the beauty of Daniel Mersey rules, is they are made to be messed with, and he doesn't mind if you mess with them. So he encourages messing with them. So I I I like that. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Yeah, absolutely. It's it's it's become my after trying a few higher, you know, higher complexity games, it's uh I love just being able to when I have a chance to play a game that isn't mine or or uh I didn't set up strictly myself. It's just fun to relax the mind and just play with friends and have a laugh.

SPEAKER_03 21:16

It's an easy there are easy sets of rules to learn and they're easy sets of rules to plu to teach. So I've always liked them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

And I think the Especially the last several years you've seen these miniature agnostic games, I think, really take off where you're not tied to a certain company or a certain system. You know, you see well every year at Emphilod, we see people playing games with 40k, but they're using one hour skirmish or you know, Xeno's Rapid or some other rule set because I just really love the the look of the miniatures and what they what that brings with it, but not necessarily the that set of rules.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

So exactly.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

So do you have anything current I mean so I I know you're working on your Unflog game. Do you have anything Else on your workbench that you're messing around with or that you're thinking about messing around with? Just up to your eyeballs with your protest game.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Yeah, I am actually. Well, it's been uh it will almost be a year, come on and flood when I do that. But I actually was able to fit in writing writing another game. Um I did a um it's to the playable stage. I haven't played tested it yet, but it's a game uh I called it Bloody Tin Can. It's it basically take the movie Aliens and turn it into um either a solo or 1v1 game with hidden movements, aliens in the in the air ducts style um uh corridor gaming. Um also I've wanted I wrote a two-page game for uh because of my protest game is is a huge table of dense urban buildings. I wanted to repurpose it after this is over. Yes. I I I need to do more than just my own game on it. Well, I made a second game for it, but it is re-themed for some post-apocalyptic zombie um type gaming. So I want to sort of delve deeper into that. So I hate I um have I broke out some zombies, but I need more. So maybe I'll paint some more zombies and some post-apocalyptic scatter, you know, trash piles, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Have you ever looked at the Alpha Zona roles?

SPEAKER_00 23:40

I've heard of them. I have not uh played.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Yeah, they're pretty fun. They kind of lean into that. You can kind of same thing, like kind of like the Danzel Mer Daniel Mergey roles. They're they're just kind of a toolbox. You can kind of do whatever you want with them.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Yeah. Yeah, even more so. I think I think that you really have to be creative with those. I think you'd be great at it. I think I think you'd be right up your alley.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Thank you. Yeah, I'll check this out.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Sorry, it's a fact.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

It it is. We've we've diverted from the script.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

I'm a terrible person.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Uh here's a question for you. And if there was if you could meet one historical figure, who would it be?

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Oh yeah, yeah, that's always a good question. It's like asking a kid what their favorite dinosaur is.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

It's a tough one.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Um so my my day job is architecture. Um, so I have a affinity for obviously buildings, um, funny enough. But um historically in tying it back into the sort of war gaming thing, you know, military history, um one figure that's has stood out to me is um James of St. George. He was actually the architect, chief architect or chief mason for Edward I.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Oh my gosh. And castles.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Yes, he designed a bunch of thirteenth century castles across I think early fourteenth century across, you know, um Britain, but also Europe. And um really it's a matter of for me of understanding the evolution during that period. I don't necessarily play that period yet. It's um I have some great plastic sitting over there that uh is is screaming at me to focus on. But um I love the idea of well I love castles, but uh how they've developed as as warfare has developed, especially later in that period, um, into the advent of uh gunpowder just later on, it's um it's become a really interesting uh period of of architecture and design to understand how these embattlements and fortifications developed. So to me, uh that sort of thing is interesting.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Did did he did he build Carnavern in Wales? Um I don't know. I mean I potentially I visited there in 2023 and it was it was really amazing. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It was cool. Um are there any bucket list war game events that that you'd like to take on that you'd like to go try?

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Yeah, uh being um an American, uh Historicon, being as as close as it is, is sort of the landmark uh event for us. Um I do want to make it out there. It's a matter of getting out to uh Pennsylvania, but um the other is Adepticon. I do want to go. Um it's possible I might go next year. We'll see. Um it's a little bit closer, but um at an interesting time of year, I think it's coming up in just a month, a couple months. Um and then of course I I do want to if I'm ever find myself if I ever find myself in the UK or Europe uh to to go to whatever is happening at that time I'm there would be really convenient. I don't um I obviously haven't been to but the partisan and salute, yes, I think would both be worthwhile to attend. Just I know that they run their events differently um to we do over here as as we do. But they also have all the vendors that I would love to meet in person or at least uh peruse on the shelves and um and lug back in my luggage.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

And it's and it seems like you could go any any week and and go to a show in Britain because they just they're everywhere. And uh partisan and and uh and salute are the biggies, but there's like a show every week. And you can go by train. So it'd be kind of fun.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 28:10

Yeah. Um Is there is there anything else that you want to share with us about oh uh conflict. Could you tell us about conflict? I'm sorry. I completely spaced out.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Yeah, no, I um conflict is a single day, uh day of war gaming. I I started it, uh I think we ran the first one in 2022. Uh just rented out it's it's still relatively small, but I I at the time I had just rented out our local multi-purpose center here on the island. And I rented it with my own money and set up tables and try my best to organize, give it some sort of structure, and invited people to run games of their own. Uh its purpose is what was always to be a free event that was for people to enjoy the hobby. And I love this hobby so much that it was just a matter of getting people in the door to gather around the table and play games and even just if you've never played before, to show up and see what it's about. Um and I was uh reached out to by uh Hugh Sing of Games Plus and um and um Blake Stevens. He just had seen my Facebook event and said, I'd love to be a vendor for you and to help support the local gaming community. And I didn't anticipate having vendors, but it opened the door for that. And so he can't had come and just sort of spoiled our um our few attendees with his wares. And so I've been having him come back each time. And now here we're in our fifth year of doing it. Um once again, it's still um a free event that I am I'm um trying my best to keep free for people to show up. And it's also the year that I'm stepping it up a notch and renting um the uh community room at the Mount Vernon Library Commons, which is a brand new building downtown Mount Vernon, right off the VI-5. And it's a fantastic space. I'd I'll I'll be able to fit as many as 12 game tables in maybe four four 10 by 10 foot vendor spaces. And um uh and I'm trying to fill up those game host spots right now as we speak. And anybody can uh reach out to me at KamanoWargamers at gmail.com to inquire about those um uh game host spots or if you want to be a vendor. Uh on top of that, to make it free, uh we just have to pay for the venue uh rental and to rent tables because they do have tables, but they're those big, you know, 60-inch round tables that maybe fit a four by four on them. But not ideal for these big uh fun show games. And um so I'm gonna be renting those uh as time goes on. But uh really at this point, um, any game hosts willing and able will have two play periods, uh a morning starting at nine o'clock, and then an afternoon starting at two o'clock with an hour break in between. And uh it's walking distance to downtown Man Vernon where there's restaurants and food. You know, parking is free, it's there's plenty of it. It's parking is in the building. The library is also a parking garage, and um, it's always good to help support um your local library.

SPEAKER_03 31:52

And what was the date on that again?

SPEAKER_00 31:54

May 2nd. May 2nd. Uh so it's it's the same month as Enfilade, but it's at the beginning of the month. So maybe come and and run your Enfilad game to practice or to um play anything else. It's uh it should be a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Yeah, and you do have a GoFundMe page to help with uh that cost. I just checked your you're$280 away. So for anybody that's listening, any amount, you know, I'm uh I'm a big uh fan of yours and a proponent of this event. I will be there. Um I haven't decided what I'm gonna run yet, but I'll be running something. Um and we just can't have enough of these types of events, and for you to take on the responsibility of putting that together, and people don't realize it's it's yeah, it takes a little bit of work to do it. So kudos to you for what you're doing and trying to grow the event. And so for anybody listening, uh, you can go to GoFundMe. Um, and if you want to support, definitely, and any amount helps.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

So yeah, yeah, thank you so much. I really appreciate it and uh all your support, both of you. It's uh it's yeah, I it's incredibly we're fortunate to to be able to access each other uh over social media for the hobby. I mean, that's really what what sparked my sort of profound love for it was moving here in 2021 to Washington and then getting on Facebook and finding an HMGS and all the other local groups. Um it's it's been so easy to just relate and connect with people who share the the interest and the hobby. It sort of has fueled my addiction, I think.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

So I I got a couple questions because I let Kevin do all the heavy lifting because I wasn't paying attention to following the script. So have you ever have you had just because you love terrain, have you ever gotten into a game strictly because of just the terrain or the idea of what you could do with the terrain?

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Um not ex not explicitly. Um I I well, I one of the games that I uh have ready to be started, I like to put it, is uh World War One, is playing a skirmish level World War I. I know um World War I can be um uh tactically you know predictable, but boring. Uh yeah, yeah. Yes. Uh war of attrition, really. And the but I love so that trench warfare is super, you know, I hate to put it that way, but aesthetic when it comes to a table, uh a tabletop. I haven't started it yet, but it uh doing a small um and it has kind of what drew me to it. But I use the term skirmish because I wasn't prepared to go paint, you know, a mass table of miniatures. I wanted to start small, that would evolve into something larger. Um and then like my current game, I mean it w terrain wasn't the purpose of me doing the protest game, but uh uh as soon as my gears started uh uh turning and realizing what this year's Infala theme was you know, urban warfare, it's um it's a no-brainer to really go all out on an urban setting. So it's um the love of terrain can really uh spark my imagination, but at the same time I try to be realistic um and and not go building any uh two foot by three foot building that I don't have a spot for. That don't have no place in my on my shelves, but it's cool to have.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Yeah. Yeah, I when I retired, I bought a three. I had had a couple different 3D printers and I decided to buy one that was a little more reliable, and it's it my wife I have just totes of terrain stuff that I have to go stop printing terrain, finish up some stuff, get it painted. Like this last weekend we're you know, we're playing, we have a Wednesday group, and Kevin's part of it that we play. Yeah, and uh I've been super interested in Revolutionary War, and I just I I had a ton of stuff, and I'm like, alright, I'm just gonna get it done, and then we've been play testing a rule set. Um and uh so I've been I've been I'll show you guys, but I spent a whole weekend uh printing fences. Fences, yeah, and and oh yeah, snake rail fence. Yeah, because you know if you had to go buy these, you know, they cost you way more than and I don't really want to sit there and make them out of balsa wood because they're just gonna get broken.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

So I have the um sort of the scaled-down version for uh for some ACW and uh black powder epic battles.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

So I on the other hand have purchased my Renendra fences, but I've never done anything with them.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yeah, I was it's funny because well I have some of the um Thatch, you know, kind of ones from the Renendra ones, but yeah, so it's uh it's it's funny how you kind of get sucked into that. I I thought it was funny earlier when you said about uh you know kind of the medieval pair, and you're like, yet that was very happy. Yeah, yet. I have the stuff, but I haven't done anything with it yet.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

So yeah, that's and uh I was that is the that is every war gamer's story, so yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Yes, and uh and I still have plenty of time to uh build my great plastic pile and uh I'm mulling over what to let go. I don't want to feel regret if I let it go and sell it at the bring and buy at Enfilade. Yeah. But um, but hey, I gotta fund the other cool ideas I have. That's right. Get ready for next Enfilad in 2027. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

Are you thinking are you thinking ahead to 2027? Is there something in mind, or you are are you just too focused right now?

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Well, honestly, like like I was saying about not being able to latch on to a specific game or genre, it's it makes it difficult. What does give me some structure in my life is knowing the theme for Enfilade.

SPEAKER_04 38:22

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

It's knowing what the theme is for the next year. And um, I love the fact that last year the the group had decided had voted on um the the 2026 theme um shortly after last and filot because it gave us a chance to really cook up those ideas and and build it up. And um and I think that's that structure is what helps dictate my choices because otherwise I'm probably gonna move on to some other random thing, and and then the theme is something else, and then I'll be like, oh shoot, like I I have need to reorient myself, and that takes a lot of time for me out of the year.

SPEAKER_03 39:06

Well, I think that I think that w I think we decided that in July, didn't we? And usually we would don't do it until September.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

So yeah, we did do it quite early this year.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

Yeah, so which I so that's good feedback for us. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Yeah, yeah, it it helped me tremendously. I I think I I may have done this particular game um either way, but um I would have made some way to get it on track.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Yeah, plus you have a deadline. That's the other thing for me. I'm kind of the same way. It's like I play in a lot of different like tournaments, and so if I know I'm going to a tournament, I'm like, okay, I have to have this done by this date, and I'll get a whole army done. Where if I didn't have that, it it'd be like, all right, I'll come back to that at some point. You know, I think we all have those half painted kind of.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

Yeah, the same way. I I like to have mine done early so I can guarantee that I'll have some playtests. So um so I can try it. I mean, I I wouldn't never bring anything cold into on flood, but um and of course not nothing ever turns out like the playtests anyway, but um but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Yeah, I and it really, I mean, like we're saying, uh and flood, you don't have to play the theme, you don't have to run a theme game to be there. Uh but for some reason the knowing there's a theme and that the theme could align with whatever it is I'm into or doing, it it motivates me even more. And I think it feels to me like the um game submissions for this year are there seem to be a lot of theme games. I don't know if that's more than there have been.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

Um I get I would guess we get about 20% of our games are theme games. Okay, a little bit more, but not but not that many.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

Okay. Yeah, it it gives a great structure to to the the madness that's going on.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Yes. Yeah. Well, I know your Viking game that you ran. I think a couple years at Unfilod, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Yeah, last year at Unfilade. Yeah. And I've been I love to use those. Uh you know, the Dark Ages are fun for almost everyone, but yeah, uh it's a great um very attractive game for people who, like I mentioned, aren't in the hobby or are unfamiliar with things. And I was using uh Ravenfeast rules by Little Wars TV guys that are super accessible. Highly recommend for anybody who just wants a quick and easy set of rules to throw down. But um it's it's it it um scales well, so I had eight people and basically it was four two-player games happening on one table, and um provided a lot of interest for engagement for each one.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Yep. And you won best of show, I believe, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Yes, I did. Yeah, I thought you did.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

Another reason for anybody listening to come to Emphalod, because I guarantee you you will be uh impressed and excited to see uh the game that you're putting on this year. So I've seen the pictures and what you've got done so far. It just looked beautiful. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Thank you. Thank you so much. It's yeah, it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

Yeah, I will say the that the companies that are coming out with plastics the last couple years are not making it easy on gamers. I I keep looking at Wargames Atlantic has been on a tear lately. They're just doing and you know, they do a lot of stuff for uh other companies. They're doing is that yeah, you know, they're doing all the plastics sets for uh trench uh trench crusade now. That stuff's starting to come out, it's beautiful, and uh a bunch of the stuff that I have. I picked up a box of the uh they just came out with the Age of Reasy ones. The uh I picked up a box of uh Fifth Regiment of Foot Grenadiers yesterday. Um with the Perry stuff, because that's most of my stuff is Perry, but but they're beautiful. I mean you get you know what is it, like 30 guys for$35. I mean that's yeah, pretty pretty inexpensive in today's money.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

But yeah, super paintable. Yeah, the features are are great, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Multi multi-parts. Yeah, yeah. Well, good stuff. Well, uh recommendations. You want to start us off, Kevin?

SPEAKER_03 43:25

Sure. Um so I am uh I've done some playtesting with a set of rules by uh Chris Leach called Take Action. And um Chris is uh uh Chris is a has been an NHMGS member. He's one of our Canadian friends uh from White Rock, BC. And um he ha he's a published rule designer. He um uh probably is best known for his rules uh control the catastrophe, which is a set of ancient rules. And he mostly does mass battle uh rules, but he's written a set of semi skirmish rules. That are similar to Daniel Mersey's um Rebels and Patriot rules. And um it's uh it's a fun set of rules. It's uh uh it's different than Rebels and Patriots activation base, but the activation is a little bit different and a little bit offers the a gamer a few more choices than um than uh the Mersey's rules do. Good stuff. Uh we're gonna um run our third game um tomorrow. Um and uh he also has a set of rules for uh a similar system for ancients and dark ages, uh, which we haven't tried to do. Um, but we all have lots of dark ages figures, so it'll be really easy to try. Um so um so anyway, uh that's what I've been doing lately, and uh, and so far it's been really enjoyable.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Good stuff. Yeah, I'm I may run that up a conflict, something with those rules, depending on what I get painted and what maybe Kevin might loan me for some uh Revolutionary War. So um Sam, you got anything you want to recommend?

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Yeah, I um something I just wanted to retouch on. I mentioned it earlier, I know it's a little uh different, is if you are in an area where you don't have your local game stores or go-to places, uh or your house isn't big enough, or you don't have what you need to run a group game, I always recommend your local library. I stumbled upon mine, uh not the library, but the fact that they have a meeting room, uh a community meeting room, which is free because it's a public library. And the uh library manager had taken note of who I was and what I was doing, and she expressed her interest, not necessarily personally, but the fact that I was trying to engage my community in a certain way. And so she was very eager and interested in getting me on the uh, like I said, the calendar for the library. So it's not just shared with within my library, but the network of libraries in the Snowish Island County area, and it becomes all of a sudden for free. I am getting marketed to a certain degree, and it's uh a really engaging way, and it's really simple. I'm surprised um more people don't do it. I guess that's because they maybe have access to uh really um uh really good game stores, but um that's something I I don't sort of a random thing I recommend to people if they don't know about it.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Yeah, and um I get depending on the area that you live in, there's some pretty large, you know, um even in some rural areas, because that is kind of the space and public spaces, you know, a large library. Um you know, and it's funny because that's probably one of the questions we get asked the most about since we started the podcast was you know, I live in this area, do you know of a group? And um I we could do a whole podcast on just building a gaming community, and I think for anybody out there that's you know looking for that or wanting that, if you don't have it currently, then go build it. I mean, what you've done, you know, somebody, and I think it's easy to get discouraged when maybe you try it and one or two people show up and you're like, well, there's not much interest. It just I think it takes time. We've seen what Ralph is Holloway has done up with his group, and you know, we have the Puget Sound Wargamer group down here, and you know, we have a group on Wednesdays that's retired guys, and we all meet up, and so you know, and and again, it's the same thing. We might have four people show up, and we'll have a week where we have 12 people show up. But um, so I think you could speak to that a little bit too about you know what you've done in the community, kind of how that started off.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

Yeah, absolutely. I like like I said, I I moved here in 2021, and I was just getting back into the hobby right before I moved here, and and first of all, moving to Washington allowed my wife and I to really explore our interests and our hobbies uh to a higher degree. And it just aligned. I couldn't find anything immediately uh in my area. It was tough to find people, social media is free. So it was really nice to be able to just reach out and post, join groups, and just post again and keep sharing. And um, yeah, it started small, it's still relatively small. Um, it's always tough to get consistency, but because I'm on that calendar, it's uh guaranteed. So it's whether I'm there, whether I'm there or not, it's it can happen. And um and uh making a Facebook group was a fantastic way to do that. Um yes, it creates sort of another bubble amongst all these other bubbles, but it allows us to sort of cross-post. And uh if it suits you, it suits you, you can join it. Uh, even if you're not on Kama, if you're not in Stanwood or even Stahomesha County, um you can obviously still join if you're especially if you're willing to come out once in a while or come to conflict on May 2nd in Mount Vernon. It's gonna be um it it it can be end up being another just another thing in your repertoire of of ways to get out there and join and meet new people. Um yeah, it's just a click away.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Yep. I guess it's that old saying, if you build it, they will come.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

Yeah, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

But someone's gotta take the initiative to do it. I think that's always the key, is you know, and and stick to it. To your point, it's on the calendar. People know regardless of how many voted.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Yeah, consistency is key. I think at first there I had to book the library meeting room myself, and it was sort of sort of uh a crapshoot if I would be if it would be available for me, and sometimes it was Saturday, sometimes Sunday, or first weekend, third weekend. It's and people kind of threw people off quite a bit, but yeah, having that solid schedule, same time, same day every month. Um people could build around it and maybe uh adjust their own work schedule, whatever it may be, and uh give them the chance to even come out. And people sometimes I'll be setting up one of my elaborate tables and we end up just chit-chatting. Before you know it, you know, over half the game time has passed. We've just been talking about things and the hobby and and what we're working on or what we want to do.

SPEAKER_03 50:51

Yeah. But that's part of that building community thing. It is a social, social hobby.

SPEAKER_00 50:56

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 50:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Yeah. Well, um, my recommendation is something I've been messing with. Um, I probably have three drawers of a couple hundred paints here. And um, you know, when contrast paints came out, I tried them and I wasn't a big fan of them, just didn't do what I thought they were gonna do. And I I have some uh friends that had used speed paints and spoke highly of them, and I and I've been working on these American Revolutionary War, and I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna bite the bull. I'm gonna see if these work. And so I bought some speed paints and I've been painting stuff up, and um they're probably not for everybody, but I just look at it as like another tool in the toolbox, and uh the at least the army painter ones that I've tried work the way that they're designed to work. Um, I've been very impressed with them. Um I tend to be a paint, messy painter and then just paint over with regular paints because you don't have to be. You can always go back over that. You can't really do that with the speed paints, you have to stick within the lines. You know, if if you're a kid and you had trouble staying in the lines with crayons, probably speed paints aren't for you because they don't play well, like kind of overlapping with colors. But uh but but they do work very well. I think they um you know you have a good product at the end of it. It's it's definitely not the same as painting with regular paints and layering and and doing all that, but uh I've been very impressed with them, and so I can't recommend them enough. And I see now that they have the brushes to the pens with they have a brush tip on them. Um and I haven't tried those. I have some of the AK brushes that I got that I I've been pretty happy with. But you know, if if if you're somebody that doesn't love to paint, it's not the thing that but you want trying to get you know, models, painted models. I just have an affinity for playing. I like I just won't play with unpainted models. I just it's my thing, it's a it's a me thing, but um, you know, you can literally go buy base colors in pens now with the brushes on them and paint a whole army and not have to go buy brushes and anything else and be and I just think that's something else that just allows uh entry into the hobby that makes it way easier. So I've been pretty impressed with them.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

I 100% support contrast paints. Uh like I said, I don't like to paint figures, but uh my 12 figure protest crowd is gonna be completely painted with Citadel contrast paints. Um I honestly just slapped um slap chopped them and then the contrast paints on there. And it's I was able to get uh two-thirds of my protesters done and in less than two days. Uh to be honest, I just fashion painted. And I've all I have tried, I got a three-pack of those Army Painter paint pens as a gift for the holidays. Uh tried it out. It's it's pretty remarkable. I love I love acrylic paint um acrylic pens, which I already have used for some detail work and for just quick touch-ups. Uh it's really handy, and once you uh seal it, it's um it'll stay on pretty well. Um I recommend it.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

Yeah, I can tell you that if you paint 15 millimeter tanks and you hate painting road wheels, get one of those pens in black because it'll make your life way easier. Or just don't paint the road wheels like most people.

SPEAKER_03 54:23

And I saw your Revolutionary War figure, Steve, and it looked great.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

Yeah, I I'm happy with them in the militia. I just finished up the militia and I finished up uh an actual leader tonight because I was like, oh, that's right. I guess I I need to bring a leader tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

So leaders are good.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

Yeah, so leaders are good. A good deal. Well, Sam, I can't thank you again enough for being on the podcast. Really appreciate it. For sure. Um excited to come up there for conflict and for everything that you're doing up there in the community.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

I appreciate it. Uh thank you so much for having me on.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Yep. Um, we don't have a lot in the way of events. Obviously, we got conflict, um, but there is one new event um April 11th uh at Geeks and Games in Oregon City. They're doing a historical learn to play. Um, they're doing uh Dead Man's Hands, Saga, Victory at Sea, and The Barons War. So if any of those games are something that you're interested and you'd like to try them out, um it's a free event. You can come down and everything will be provided. Um, I'll actually be there running the saga stuff um for the store. So I'll have uh uh a table set up for saga um and then they'll have all the other stuff. So um they've done a few events like this before, and uh it's pretty neat. It's kind of in that same vein of like a lot of the events we do, just trying to you know help out with uh you know historical gaming. And I would tell you from uh for geeks in games, they carry a lot of historical product, probably more than most uh game stores. They carry most, he carries a full line of vitrix. Um, there's not very many places that you can walk in and see a wall of vitrix on the shelf. Um, he carries Rubicon, which is not easy to find. Um, they do 156 scale um armor and figures and stuff. And uh he's got flames of war, fire lock, a lot of historical stuff. So definitely should be uh a good event. So and that's again on uh and they're coming to Enphelade as a vendor. And they will be at Onfalade, yep, as a vendor this year. Yep. Yep, yep, that's exciting.

SPEAKER_03 56:18

So yeah, so there's the uh two events on March 14th. There's the um uh drumbeat south event in Shahalas at the Veterans Museum. Uh lots of people will be trying out their uh their Envelode games there. Um and I know Gene Anderson has been um scheduling games. Um and there's an event if you uh are a member of the NHMGS um uh Facebook group. There is uh an event listing there uh with the different events that have been scheduled. Um and Steve, you have your um tournament that same?

SPEAKER_01 56:52

Yeah, we have a Flames of War tournament, Midwar Flames of Tournament, that they'll be at uh the game wizard there in Lakewood. And then I wanted to uh real quick here. Um down in Canby, I think this month they're doing another uh event at the uh Veterans Hall there in Canby, right, Kevin?

SPEAKER_03 57:15

Ron I don't know if they got something scheduled for February or not.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

Okay. We'll uh I'll find that and we'll figure that out.

SPEAKER_03 57:22

It would actually be for March.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

Yeah. Uh well we can ask Ron here in a couple weeks because we'll have him on the show. Sounds good. Awesome. Anything else you guys want to share?

SPEAKER_00 57:40

Oh, hopefully uh see people at Conflict May 2nd. But um yeah, thank you so much for having me on. This is fantastic. We really need a podcast in this area.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

Yep, appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 57:52

Well Sam, thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

Yep, thank you so much. Well, thanks for listening, everybody, and we'll see you again soon. Thank you for listening to the Tanks and Tomahawks podcast. If you'd like to reach out to us, you can find us at tanks.tomahawks at gmail.com or join us over on Facebook at the Tanks and Tomahawks Facebook group.