Warlord Games

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

You are listening to Tanks and Tomahawks, a miniature wargaming podcast in the Pacific Northwest. Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Tanks and Tomahawks podcast. And I'm here with Kevin.

SPEAKER_04 0:24

Hi Dave. Hope everything's going well with you.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

It is going. You know, we're kind of in the middle of summer and things are starting to get a little bit warm in the Pacific Northwest. So we're not uh we're not uh too used to that. So um everybody's uh I think uh ready for the rain to come back at some point.

SPEAKER_04 0:42

So I don't know if that's true.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Yeah, that is that's probably not true. Well, we have some special guests with us today. Um we have uh a couple gentlemen from Warlord Games, and I have Sean uh Bagley here with us. Hey, Sean. Hello, it was uh you guys. It was 109 here in Utah last Sunday. Yeah, you can keep that, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

We are good with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Yeah, and we've got John Fleming.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Hi, nice to meet you. Oh, all um yeah, I would say it's hot up here, but not as hot as where Shawnee is. And you can keep that heat.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Yeah, we start pushing 90s and people get a little nervous. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21

It's fun for a day. It's fun for a day because we can say that we live through it, but if it's more than a day, not so much fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Yeah, and we can normally count our 90 plus days on one hand, usually, so I think we're all pretty okay. Well, let's keep it that way this year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

109 here in Utah is a record since 1824. So it was it was where you don't want to go out on the deck. Yeah. It's that kind of weapon.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Yeah. Well, this is our second uh recording of this podcast. We tried to record one at Enfilod and uh we had a good time doing it, but unfortunately that did not uh make it to uh make it to the final. So we're re-recording this and we're uh happy to have Sean and uh John back on. So, you know, for um this was the first show we had Enfilod uh or Warlord Games at Enfilod. Um we had a lot of terrific feedback. Um Sean, this is your first um uh trip out to Enfilod. What was your experience like?

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Well, it was uh it's uh I'm here in Salt Lake City where Warlord set up a uh an events and marketing distribution uh point. And we just um so I wanted to grow in the Northwest, and I knew I'd have to make the 12, 13 hour drive. Yeah, and we I just committed to it for that Memorial Day weekend. And um we got there. I didn't, you know, you just I've been doing shows for a couple of years, but I you still got to feel your way in and out of the place and hadn't really met you guys except online. But uh otherwise, it was uh to me, it was an extraordinary weekend. Um everybody uh said, well, you know, hey, where'd you come from? They all kind of knew we were gonna be there, but probably not as big rolling in those. I I like to think of us as the British are coming with the big red cabinets and rolling here where the red coats come from. So that's uh really uh thrilled to be there. Um I I uh I'm working with uh John there. Now we, you know, since we've been there, we have uh uh three uh uh people working uh in organizing for Woolworth up there now. So when I was first there, first time taping, we only had me and John.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Now is is Johnny doing something with you guys for you guys or John Fleming. Johnny is denial. Yeah, that's what I thought. Uh Bruce Smith is working with us now. Oh, okay. Well we know Bruce, he's on the Flock committee, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

And he's yeah, he uh and he's a board member.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Yep. Yeah, he's a board member, but he's also he served in the U.S. Air Force with uh John's boss, uh John uh John Russell. So John knew him and I went, oh, okay. And uh they're just uh I'm excited. I'm way over here in Utah. Um, I mean, it's some of the things that I do is I'm organizing. We had a last weekend we had a tournament in Fresno and then a tournament in Albuquerque. So uh just kind of organizing the Intermountain West, and you know, John Fleming and his team is is a crucial part of this, and that's why I was at M Falot was to help get Warlord off the ground there. And we're excited. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Yeah, I think it's probably the best kept secret from a war gaming standpoint in the U.S. Uh we obviously know about it up here in the Northwest, but I don't know it's as well known in some other parts of the country.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

So we're working on changing that. Yep, yep. Oh, you guys uh I uh to have one of the things that's different for me as far as culture was that uh I grew up in um uh not tournaments, but in events like yours where the game masters came, brought all their terrain, they brought all their armies, brought their own rules, and you just signed up, you know, and you played all weekend trying to maximize how many games you get in, because that was the only time I could play. So now I've been exposed to this event-oriented uh type conventions where uh bolt action, warhammer, uh all all the atomic mass games, they have these tournaments, and that's what you build around. But I quite frankly, I kind of like yours better. I I I I love the I mean walking in those tables, seeing the energy, it was it was kind of like home week for me when I came when I came to Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

To me, the beauty of M Flood is the fact that you're gonna play games that you just things that you've never seen before. Because again, it's people building their own rule sets, using, you know, mishmash of different rule sets and different themes and narrative stuff, and so um, and I think you know, uh our goal has been to continue to grow and then add some more of the tournaments, which we've always had we've had a flames of war tournament for quite a time for quite a long time, but um, you know, being able to open it up to bolt action and conflict 47 and you know some other games that people want to run tournaments. I think that uh one it brings uh I think it it works both ways. One, people that don't play tournaments get exposed to a little bit of that. And the other side of it is that people that normally go and just play in tournaments get exposed to, like what Yushan said, that type of uh of open gaming, open table gaming.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

So and I didn't have much experience with the open table gaming like that until I came there and saw it. Because I come from more of the tournament background gaming style.

SPEAKER_04 7:18

And and you know, Dragonflight's a great convention, but they kind of do more of the tournament-oriented gaming, and um and so we're I guess we're we're kind of unique from that standpoint.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Yep, yeah. Yeah, when you think of the big I mean historicon's awfully, uh you know, back east they have several um of that, you know, that's kind of the style, but when you look at like Adepticon, A Gen Con, you know, those are all very much tournament driven.

SPEAKER_05 7:46

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Yeah, and Adepticon's huge huge. I think it's the largest in the world now. I mean, I think they get you know tens of thousands of people playing in these tournaments, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

Yeah, it's insane. At least that's what I've heard.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

I've never made it. Yeah, yeah, I've always wanted to go one of these days. I might get by there and check it out. Well, Sean, how did you get into war gaming? I mean, how did that start for you? You said you had gone then done some events kind of like uh like in flood.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Yeah, well, uh again, I I uh I've been a historian in my mind probably my whole life, and I was always captivated by World War II. And and I I was never in the military. I my family doesn't have a background in the military. I just tell people I'm a fan now. Uh always have been. I've just been interested to where as uh as I was uh growing up in the 70s, uh I would play the Avalon Hill games with my brother. And yeah, you know what, I'll go back to seven and eight years old. I was dominant in my neighborhood, Arnwood Drive, uh growing up playing army. Uh uh, you know, not you know, having guns and stuff, uh, play guns, but playing army, helmets and everything uh in the neighborhood with the neighborhood kids. There were about 15, 20 of us. We we would, you know, fight behind it at hedges and just kind of uh you know, watch combat on uh Tuesday nights at 8 o'clock and then come about out during uh you guys all remember that show and uh the Rat Patrol was on that time, and I was just turned on by it. Uh so uh when I went, my brother invited me in 1980 to a game convention. I thought that was weird, uh, but I didn't quite know what it was. So I went up and they were having an Avalon Hill game. And as I recall, I went in in it's in a separate room, and it was called PacificCon uh back then uh at the Dumfy Hotel in San Mateo. And when I walked by, you know, I was 30 years old, if not younger. And uh I was about 30, I guess, and I saw the miniature tanks on the table, and I've just never gone back because I just fell in love. How do you do this? And that was where a game master was running the game. Hey, can I play? And you know, I was just I had no idea about the culture of the gaming, but um I, you know, went to PacificCon for over, you know, 35 years, and then of course, on so that was uh Labor Day weekend. So I only had because I was working then, families and all that stuff, but I only had the two weekends a year to play war games, and I just wanted to push tanks. I had no idea how to paint, I had no idea what was uh uh what I I couldn't believe all these people had this painted army as I really didn't understand. So I come at this uh in my uh journey. I come at this because I want to kind of see there's more Sean's out there than uh we can imagine. And that's kind of where I've taken this role of uh I like to think about I don't game, I do terrain all the time, but I I want to put on good shows. I I I want to I want to turn that Sean on that's walking past that doorway to a gaming room, and he's gonna go, Where did you get those tanks? So that's kind of how I come to it. I like to think of myself, I'm not a rule writer, I'm not a gamer, but I know how to play games, but I played them over the day. I I like to think of myself, I'm in a management role now. And it's kind of different. I'm not, I don't get paid by Warlord Games. I'm just a volunteer. And uh we have a system here in North America uh called uh Raiders, excuse me. And I just want to manage events for Sean's out there to come and get turned on by historical gaming. I'm basically spreading the joy. I'm a preacher, man, baby. Spreading the joy of historical gaming. And a lot of people don't understand why I'm doing it. Because this distribution center, I have to drive the truck, I have to load it, you know, I'm I'm too old for this thing. But I I love bringing uh this show. I uh, you know, there's other shows that I'm doing now. Uh and it's just exciting to me to find, and I'm meeting the new players and to have a booth with product uh of a game that I love, World War II, but of course you know they go all the way back, Warlord Games goes all the way back to Bronze Age from with Hail Caesar all the way Black Powder to the Korea of a bolt-action Korea. Uh we we just cover all the bases and I love talking about it. And then for somebody to come up and go, What's this mean? And I don't know if you guys have ever been challenged, but to me, that excites me because I'm about to sell this guy on being a historical gamer, and he's gonna do it for the rest of his life.

SPEAKER_04 13:33

I only choose that I only choose weird stuff to game Sean, so nobody questions me about it.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Well, I do bring some weird products. I do bring some weird products, and quite frankly, with Conflict 47, I mean, there's some weird stuff in there, and it's pretty cool. And uh uh again, it was really received well by all the Amphilod uh people because they had heard about it, and I know retailers, see, retailers carry our product. You have them up there. I know that Geeky Villa and up where John lives, that where I met John uh a year and a half ago, two years ago, yeah, is they sell our product, but I always tell store owners you gotta demo this historical gaming. They don't get it, and it goes to Flames of War too. You've got to demo it to get people into it. And if they don't and they leave it on the shelf, they wonder why it sells. Well, when I'm at a show, I mean it's a frigging circus to me. I'm the grand entertainer here. I want people to have my product. I don't care if I sell nothing because we are parts of events and marketing. So I'm out of Nottingham, England, and what I'm there to do is to grow the player uh population. And I just love doing that, and Warlord gave me this opportunity. So I've run 30, 40 tournaments in my time, but I want people like John to do that next. I want people, Johnny, to do that next. I want Bruce to be able to do that, and that's kind of my role as a management. Let's have fun, let's turn on uh new players. Um so that that's kind of where I come from. And ultimately, I see the industry with Warhammer dominating, Games Workshop dominating, and I just want my historical players to have that same passion that the Warhammer guys do because there's a as far as numbers, there's a world of difference there. And I love both games, they're fun, but uh I just love historicals.

SPEAKER_05 15:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Yeah. Well, I can tell you that the feedback from having you at uh Emphila this year was extremely uh good, uh uh well received. Everybody after Emphila was like, please tell us Warlord's coming back, and I go, as far as I know, that's the plan. So um yeah. So uh we're all in. We're all in. Don't worry about that.

SPEAKER_04 16:13

So John, how did you get your start?

SPEAKER_03 16:17

Well, um I started not as old long ago as all of you, because I'm still only in my forties. But I started back in the 80s, mid-80s, doing Civil War stuff. Um had nobody to play with but myself. Really, and did mostly diarrhea in 80. And then the 90s came along and I discovered Warhammer Fantasy, and that kind of stuff to be in for a while because I had people to play with. That's where I got more.

SPEAKER_04 17:00

What was your first Warhammer Fantasy?

SPEAKER_03 17:03

I had a wizard. Uh my very first one was dwarf. I got in over my head and had like 14,000 points in them before I did this enough and had to get down. I traded my my That's what I did. I traded for uh War Machine, I traded for Legion, I traded for all virtually all the rest of my war gaming career was traded away with getting rid of some of my Warhammer. I even got into console like 47 for my trading away Warhammer back when it was just coming out. I haven't picked up I I haven't picked it up really in a long time. I keep I keep telling myself I'll try. When they recame out with Old World, I was like, I'll try that. I bought the books and never did anything with them. I've done that before.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Yeah, I have a few of those sitting on a shelf right behind me. I'm collecting uh Revolutionary War rule sets right now, so that's my new uh I'm trying to figure out something I want to figure out for a big game next year.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

It's a 250-year anniversary. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

That's probably yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:37

I mean, he's got a plan. Steve has a plan here.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Yeah. Oh, good for you.

SPEAKER_04 18:40

I'm amazed. I think it's good.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Yeah, Kevin's gonna help me, so he just doesn't know what he is. Oh, Kevin, you're in too. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:48

Well, yeah, I have a I have a lot of revolutionary working here. Yeah, but I think Steve's talking about 15 millimeter for then.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Yeah, I keep I don't know, man. I keep going back and forth. I I need to be epic. We have that epic revolutionary set. They're pervy. Yeah. Red coat pints and blue. Yep, I got a bunch of. Oh, you are more. I got I got some right here. Yeah. So well, good for you. It's a great set. Yeah. It's a great set. Yeah, no, very much so. So, John, what part of of the hobby, I mean, do you enjoy the most? I mean, there's obviously there's the gaming part, there's the modeling and building, there's for me, it's modeling, building, and painting.

unknown 19:26

Are you a three?

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Wargaming came second, mostly because I never really had opportunity. And then I started playing with my buddies, and that's how that came along. But my my pass ultimate passion is painting.

SPEAKER_04 19:41

And are you a a 3D printer? I saw that amazing piece that was printed before you.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

I have some bad luck with 3D printing. I've I own a 3D resin printer, and I can't seem to get it to work right.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

You know, I have to become a doorstop, and I gave it to a friend of mine who could make better use of it.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

So that's a hobby in itself. 3D printing.

SPEAKER_04 20:07

It does too much for me. Although Steve does the filament printing and he gets a lot done.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

So yeah, I do uh I have an FDM printer. I bought I've had a couple, but I bought a newer uh bamboo uh P1 when I retired last year, and it just it's super reliable, it just works, and I print a lot of terrain. Um and and mainly because I do a lot of I do 28 mil, I do 15 mil.

SPEAKER_05 20:31

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

So, you know, like a good example is I do I play uh quite a bit of Flames of War, but I play Bolt Action 2. And the nice thing is you can get a file um and just resize it, and so I can print out the same building at 15 mil and 28 mil, um which comes in very handy.

SPEAKER_05 20:48

Yeah. Um, sure.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

And and I do like it. I I did a lot of MDF terrain, and I do still like some MDF terrain. Um but MDF terrain, if you want to do it right, I mean, really the walls you're kind of kind of texture, you know, they just they're they're very kind of one-dimensional from that standpoint.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

Uh I have a lot of MDF terrain, and I want to replace it all with 3D printed terrain. I really do. I want a 3D uh filament printer, but I just haven't got the space for one.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Yeah. I just got done. It took me about three days to print uh a church. So we've been playing, we have a group that meets on Wednesdays. We've been we played Pillage, and uh I wanted to I saw your post. Yeah, I wanted to do I want to do a church, and so I found a medieval church, and it's it's takes up almost like a two by two footprint, and it was a lot of pieces, so I finally got it all printed out, and now I just gotta get it all painted up and stuff, but uh it it's stuff like this.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

So you guys want to hear a secret? Sure, tell all your listeners too. They have to come to Las Vegas Open, but I pr have Printed a B-29 superfortress. Oh, you were killing? Yeah. Carrying the atomic bomb, old man. If you read the lore in Conflict 47, uh we're it's it's painted and I'll show it off soon, but I'm gonna do a a static display. And if you give me lots of room at uh infilod, wait till you see my display of uh Iwo Jima with the crash B29.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Oh, that that will be awesome. Well, we'll have plenty, like I said, we're we're working on some new space, so we should have plenty of room. Okay, no, that's great. Yeah, that's great. And it's stuff like that that you can do with 3D printers that you know normally you'd buy a 148 scale if you want to do 28 mils pretty close. And um and and again, you still do that. I still do some of that, but being able to 3D print things and you know, that normally would be harder to find, or um, and I haven't even got and the other whole part of 3D printing is creating the files. I mean, there's people that that's all they do, they just create the digital files, so yeah, and they sell it for that. But it does, it turns into its own hobby pretty quickly.

unknown 23:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Well, we had the uh John, you got uh the uh stum riser.

SPEAKER_05 23:16

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Uh that's what triggers us. Yeah, that was a free 3D uh print that Warlord gave away, and they don't do that very often. So that I think that's the first time Warlord's ever given away an SDM.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

Yeah, I don't think I've seen there's a few companies that do that, but uh um I think uh I think I think modeling companies should do more of that. I think there's some stuff out there that's kind of you know nichey that it wouldn't make any sense to one create an injection bolt for because of the expense or even you know sculpt up for resin, but you can easily do something in a 3D and then you know, knowing that it just you wouldn't sell enough units to cover the cost of making it, but you could very easily make a make an STL and then offer that up. Um I think that's you know, everybody keeps talking about 3D printing, you know, killing off, but I don't I don't see that happening anymore.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Well we you know it's funny, Warlord, we're a we're a model company. Think about it. And we just build games around our models to keep it simple. But we uh we allow, I know John does, we allow 3D printed stand-ins as long as you explain to your opponent that it mapped as to a great degree. We allow that in our tournaments. Yeah. I mean, we're gonna be I I hear I know King's workshop, you can't qualify it from what I've heard with with the 3D printed sub. So uh we're we're here to sell models. And um you guys want to hear a story, an envelope story? Sure. And I'm gonna say this, and I I I wish I could remember the customer's name. But he came to me on uh uh Saturday, right? And we're we're we're there until Sunday afternoon. It came Friday night, and he dared me if I had a Panzer one. I said, Are you sure you want to dare me? Look over there. So we went over and it was on the grid wall. And I said, just keep looking. It's all it was all wrapped up. And he could not believe I had a Panzer I who on earth brings a Panzer One to a gaming convention and sells in a booth. Nobody does. You have to print it. I know the stores don't carry it. So Sunday, apparently after the payout from your flea market, he he came and he I had two Panzer Ones. He brought both of them. He says, I'm gonna have a caravan of Panzer Ones now.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Small caravan.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

That's some of the joy that I had while I was there, amongst other stories. Yeah. So John, how about you?

SPEAKER_04 26:01

What was your did you have a particular joy at Unflood?

SPEAKER_03 26:06

I think I enjoyed seeing a lot of the different terrain that you guys did there. There were some amazing boards. Um they're awe-inspiring, and I wish I was that good at terrain making. I will have to inspire, you've inspired me to try getting better.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

But um I I think that one of the things that was amazing about the convention this year was at least two of the guys who uh uh hosted amazing games. It was I mean, they they were relatively new to the convention. One had never been to a convention before, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

Oh yeah, and uh that was cool.

unknown 26:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

It's funny because we did a I think it was our second podcast, right, Kevin. We did one on Enfilad.

SPEAKER_05 26:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

Yeah, and Armin, that's the one yeah, he listened to, and that's how he learned about it. It was kind of amazing.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Well, no, the one with the urban warfare, and uh I that the whole protest game was fantastic. It was just so uh my eyes just it blew my brain open. Another joy was though they were protesting a GW store downtown. I was just I was spent. I showed my daughter that what's a and what's a GW store. So I went, okay, we have a long ways to go.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sam Drucker, who uh put that game on, he did uh he just he's done a lot of uh really incredible games.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Oh, yeah. It was packed eight to ten people around the whole weekend.

SPEAKER_04 27:39

And Sam is an arc Sam is an architect, so he brings a lot of skill to the construction.

SPEAKER_03 27:46

That's that's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

And it's funny because we had him on the show and we asked him that you know, kind of the question about what do you love and painting. It's not he doesn't like painting.

SPEAKER_03 27:54

He doesn't like to paint, yeah. Yeah, which is funny because I like painting, but I just that's what I've always done. I've got I've got a paint station that looks somewhat like yours there, Kevin, except more paints of different varieties and more chaotic. Yours looks organized.

SPEAKER_04 28:12

Well, it's semi-organized, it's pretty messy at the moment. Um I usually don't do this here. I'm usually out in my other room. So we're in my den. This is my den, which is where I have all my paint stuff, and um I have a big record collection in here, too.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Well, here's mine.

SPEAKER_04 28:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Yeah, that looks a little bit more like mine. I've got I just I'm I'm bad at just sticking to a project and completing it. Like I have probably five or six half-starter projects sitting on my desk right now.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

I'm not showing mine off right now. It seems chaos.

SPEAKER_04 28:54

Well, it's KWI stuff I'm working on right now, it's all on my desk. So it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Oh, good for you. That's a lot of fun. It just I I call this my painting room bag booms have a boutique. So if people ask where I am, he's in the boutique in the back. So right.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

So, Sean, from uh from a uh show standpoint, are there any big shows that you want to do or go to that you haven't done yet?

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Uh I'm going. I've been invited to work Adepticon next year.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Oh, really? Oh, nice. Uh come on to you. You probably bring everybody, I would think, a lot of the different readers from across the U.S.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Exactly. And and I uh uh the role I expect is to be in the booth to sell, but the uh uh there's all kinds of stuff. Again, it's different. It's different from Enfilod and that Emphalod's historical oriented and has historic players. But Adepticon was you know, what, 20,000 people or something crazy and playing all kinds of games, event-oriented, and and Adepticon is the largest one here in the States. Um I I run the Intermountain West for Warlord, and I'm doing Las Vegas Open, which is a very large one too. Yeah. And um I again, and I have here the Utah Cup coming up on August 8th and 9th, and we're building that up uh into a show. We'll have uh, you know, we have a historical element, we have a Flands of War tournament along with the Bolt Action, and then a big war hammer here in Utah. And then we have a Pacific Con. I'll be in the Bay Area on Labor Day, and that's a pretty big show. We're we're growing that too. Uh again, first time Warlord's ever been in California was last year when I did uh PacificCon. So again, first time in Washington State was this year with you guys at Infilad. Warlord's never been there.

SPEAKER_04 31:02

Where will PacificCon be located?

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Oh, it's right there, San Santa Clara Marriott still.

SPEAKER_04 31:07

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Down by the stadium. Yeah, right across from it there. Yeah, the uh well, it's the Grand America Park they're closing. It's right next to the back.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

No, they're closing it. Yeah. Land's too valuable in the Bay. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's outrageously priced down there.

SPEAKER_04 31:26

I did, I did, I did.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Yeah, I grew up in the Bay Area too, so my my a lot of my family still lives down there.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Oh, yeah, you know another joy I had at Enthalod, as long as we're talking about Amphilod, and I really, you guys, I I I love it. I'm looking forward to coming back. Uh, is when I got there, I recognized 10 to 15 people that I had played with over the decades in the Bay Area. And I I was just sitting in the lobby trying to be quiet the night before, I think. And um my God, you know, hello, I hadn't seen them. And you know, you remember me? And and these guys were uh they were game masters that I was just the young pup who walked up to the table wanted to play their game, right? Uh I mean so many rule sets that you had to go through as a a player. I I I just uh I just wanted to play and to see them in the lobby and to see them all having a good time and they recognized me. I think, John, you were amazed that I knew so many people from the Bay Area, way up in Tacoma. So that kind of blew my mind. So that helped me. And I don't mind going into strange places. I have I I I love people, it's not a problem for me, but uh, it was just nice kind of, hey, this is home week. This is and then they were saying, You work for Warlord? And I says, Yeah, that's kind of what I'm doing now.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

So yeah, it was kind of cool watching his face as you'd see people come in the doors like, oh, I know that person. Oh, I know that person.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

I just I I have no expectations, but uh the it was funny, but the organizer for PacificCon, one of my raiders down there, he says, How are we gonna get those guys who are doing Amphalod to come down to PacificCon? I said, I don't know, you have to outreach. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 33:23

Probably the most active of those guys that post with us is Nick Stern, and he is uh game masters. He always puts on a couple games, and um and he's a good guys. They're all good guys.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Oh, yeah. They he was one of my game masters. I played numerous games with them over the decades. So it was just wow, what are you doing, Nick? I couldn't remember their names, but uh otherwise, uh you know, they didn't know I was in Utah because I had been I've been out here going in nine years now. Yeah. So uh we're just uh yeah, we're I'm excited. John has the team, Johnny and Bruce. Uh uh and you know, we'll probably expand that team, but we're going slow. You know let's organize these stores. Uh he's they're going up to Dragonfly. I mean, I'm excited for him. That's a big jump for John. He had never Emphalad was the big one, and uh he adapted fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 34:25

Um Bruce is Bruce is a regular at most of the convention. Yeah, yeah. I mean, uh he's uh he's a he's a regular dragonfly. He's a he designs wonderful games that are crossover from historical to something non-historical, and I don't want to categorize it because he's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

I don't know you could, yeah. It's chaos, chaos, chaos.

SPEAKER_04 34:47

He attracts lots of they're beautiful, they look like they're just fun as can be. And um and uh yeah, I he's he's he's great guy to have you on your team.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

He's excited, and I kind of wanted it, you know, I didn't know he was on the board when I met him. Uh he came up in the booth and hey, do you know you work for John Russell? I said, Yes, I do. And he said, I was served in the Air Force with him. You're kidding, take a picture. So uh that was pretty exciting for John to see Bruce there. So but uh otherwise, Bruce is a lot of and and I kind of want that's gonna help with I I was thinking about it, having John and Johnny, that's great. But uh Bruce on the Enfilod thing, I can uh Warlord can perhaps play a bigger role in in what you're trying to do as an Infilod organization. We we you know Warlord wants to be there and we talked about some of the things when I was there. So you that's sure just let me know as we get close. That's next year. But uh what we're gonna do. Yeah, it goes quick. So oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

Yeah. Yeah, with um a potential change of venue going into next year. We're trying to we're trying to scale things and do some stuff differently, but we're also trying to be mindful of with a new location is gonna create some obviously you know friction points. Just you're always gonna have that whenever you move. Kevin knows he's done it many times over the years of the build.

SPEAKER_04 36:15

But uh well, at least a couple times more than I wanted to. How about that?

SPEAKER_02 36:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Well, I think it's Tacoma, right? I mean, that's what you're thinking. Yeah. So that's yeah, it'll still be Tacoma. Yeah, it'll still be Tacoma, yeah. Yeah, that's not a big I I I hope I you know, I know it's gonna be challenging, but you gotta work with the new hotel staff, you've got to get the rooms, uh yeah, you've got to get the room block, and uh uh I we're we're excited. Uh I I'm pretty greedy when it comes to rooms, so I always need bigger spaces. So that's just kind of I want to be able to uh I mean right now, three with Bruce and John and Johnny, uh they're K-47 uh uh oriented, they're bolt action. If you know K-47, you know bolt action. Yeah. But I just kind of want to expand and show up black powder, blood red skies. Yeah, I probably have a lot of time.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

It'd be nice to have more under overpoor.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Yeah, and and I can put it so when somebody comes up, I can kind of let them roll some dice. And oh, that interests me because we covered Bronze Age all the way to Korea. You know, we want to be a part of the lives. We have uh the Boer War coming out. Uh that's pretty exciting. Um our uh CEO and president John Stollard, that's uh gonna be exciting. And of course, we're British oriented, so you have to understand that. But uh the Boer Wars was pretty exciting. Um and uh just the the battle and the techniques, uh, it'll be fun.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

So when I just saw the announcement on epic scale Zulu Wars, I think something, right? That just came out.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Oh yeah, no, it's it's coming out. I have, unfortunately, I have a whole Zulu 28, and I have a pretty charity 28. If you guys want me to ever bring and you want to put them on the table, I can. I I have I have personal in my collection, I probably have 10,000 miniatures.

SPEAKER_05 38:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

So uh I I since I kind of got into the management aspect instead of the gaming, um, and I'm doing a lot of terrain. Um kind of what what my I I have this stuff and it's fun to show off. So that's kind of what we do.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

I I just want to grow. John, how about you? Any bucket list uh events you still have on your want to go to?

SPEAKER_03 38:44

I've got a lot because I've been on the backside where I haven't had the money to travel to events. So most of my events have been local. And I haven't even done a lot of those because the budget to get in there usually you're going to want a hotel and all that. And it's just I haven't done a lot of them because of that. I would like to at some point go to AdaptaCon, go to these big ones, but that'll be probably a while for me. I'm happy sticking with the local guys right now and getting to know them and just getting used to the scene. Um looking forward to to Dragonflight myself.

SPEAKER_04 39:31

I completely get it. I'm kind of a homebody, and big crowds freak me out. So um I've never been to Historicon and um and I really like I I'm very comfortable on Flood, and I've been to Dragonflight a couple times, including a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

That was a great convention. Yeah, we have uh we don't have any shortage of events up here. No, so we're pretty lucky in that respect.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

Oh, you guys are yeah, and I haven't done a lot of these events up here, and I'm like sitting here real I think I didn't even realize Inflaud was a thing until this last year. I found out about it literally Well, not last year, but the year before the weekend it was happening was when I found out about Infilod. And I'm like, well, I guess I can't go this year. Well, John, tell the story of how me and you connected. Oh that was a walk. That was not this year, but last year wasn't it? Or was it longer than that? I think it was last year. Yeah, because I was doing the No, you came up for 4th of July. And we were that's when we met because I was doing the last hurrah kind of thing for first edition K-47 at DK Villain, and I had like eight or nine guys there, and we were trying to throw the game together, and we'll talk about your uh Discord.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

That's how I meant I found you.

SPEAKER_03 41:08

That's how you found me? Okay, I do not know exactly how you found me, but I know you showed up there, and I was like, Okay, so about I would say last May I was going on and realizing Conflict 47's new edition was coming, and I did not want a repeat of the first edition, where it came along, some people played it, and it just died. It was there, but it wasn't really doing anything. So I went ahead and uh organized a Discord server, a Facebook group, did these things, and um promoted them, and I have a Discord server now that has 1,070 people on it dedicated to K47 from around the world. There's a Facebook group with a little bit more of that, but I don't know what to do with that because I'm not a Facebook person. To be honest. So it's there and it does its own thing, and I and I critique it. But the Discord server has a life of its own and it has it's a community server at this point.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

Well, P you're being a little humble young man, but you're you're also connected to Nottingham, because I know the director of the Conflict 47 rollout, Peter Gosling, and you have communicated over uh issues that made you official. I mean, you it's an amazing Discord, you guys. And uh he just started out of nowhere and he it John divided the world up into sections. I mean, it was unbelievable, Johnny. I don't know how you did that.

SPEAKER_03 42:53

I've caught some flack over that in Europe a little. But because I didn't know where to put the lines. But it seems to work okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Um dividing up Asia, Europe and United States, it was insane.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

It was fun, it's trying it, and it's all English spoken for the most part, but there has been some French and German in there that have popped up, and I'm like, I can't understand what you're saying, so I hope it's good.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

So I saw him because I was organizing conflict, and I've always been curious, and then he was up there. My daughter lives up in Edmonds, so that's where uh I'm up there for July 4th, not this year, but uh then I'm coming up in November. Uh me and John already talked about organizing, getting together when I come up for Thanksgiving. But uh, I had to meet John, and who is this guy running an official, unofficial conflict 47? And I knew it's Going to be big because I started seeing the product and and uh as far as the development of this incredible warlord games, this whole rollout of conflict, you guys, is second to none. And the professionalism and the models. Oh man, it's amazing. So I had to go meet and they're listening to the players. Yeah, and they're listening to players. And I had to go meet John on my uh vacation. Hey, let's get together. And he was doing something that up at Geeky Villain up in uh Everett, right? Everett, yeah. And uh I went the long way like an idiot. I didn't know how to get up there, but uh now I know it's quick. And I uh I just kind of I saw how John was uh his interplay with the players, and and I didn't know Geeky Villain, didn't know John, but um I came back in November and John talk about your food drive. Uh I think this was amazing. Nottingham thought it was exquisite. John Russell just went, oh my god, that's amazing. Go ahead, explain that.

SPEAKER_03 45:11

Okay, so I did this, I'm going to try doing it again this year. I just haven't started the paper ball working, which I have to. But I do this Thanksgiving event up here. I did uh advertisement, I swear you saw down there when I was advertising my Thanksgiving. I Right. Uh I did it with the local food bank, and what we did was we took donations of food, and they were required requirements by the food bank, and then we put them on the table with all our terrain. The boxes of food and the cans of food, and that was all the terrain was made from the food drive. And then we boxed it up afterwards and sent it to the food bank. Taking pictures of the whole nine yards. So that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

And it was we filled the store. It was amazing. But so that's where, okay, John, uh, what do you think? What are you doing? Uh this is what I do. I'm a raider. And what raiders do across the country is we deal with tournaments, demonstrations, and conventions. And John took the challenge, and that's kind of how we do it. We're not responsible for sales. The store is the store deals with the Warlord sales department, uh, not us as far as products. So uh we just, you know, we work for free. And um uh I think, yeah, you were John, you were a sergeant at Geeky Villa, and Warlord has the sergeant's program. I don't know if you know about that, but it's a designated employee of the store. The store plays to put on to represent Warlord games and I wasn't actually paid by the store when I was doing it.

SPEAKER_03 47:03

I was pretty much doing the same thing as I'm doing now, but for an individual store. And then I took it and spread it out for yeah, they love them. So John, they love them.

SPEAKER_04 47:16

So, John, regardless of whether the event you're running is big or small, it's a it's a day at uh Geeky Villain or it's a weekend at Onfalud or Dragonflight, what would what would be the what would you what would you want to see? What would be perfect for you to see?

SPEAKER_03 47:35

Ideally for me, especially in the conflict mind, I'll I'm honestly I am both conflict and bolt action, but I am better at conflict. It is where my passion is. I the whole weird warness of it. Um but anyway, I would like to see yes, the tournament side, that's where things are. But I also want to see some of the narrative side. Because that is more where my passion is. More your narrative things, your smaller stories. So I want to see both. So I honestly I'm thinking with now that we're there's more than just one of me going into Influad planning for the event and everything. I'm thinking we throw a tournament. Yes. But we also do a narrative event.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

We do both. Yeah, and I think the narrative event will attract those newer, maybe don't know about conflict. No, the obviously the tournament are the individuals that have you know invested money in this game. Correct. Um, but I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 48:41

You have to start, you have to get them there.

unknown 48:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:43

And that's really what the main hall is at Inflot. It's all these different games.

SPEAKER_04 48:47

It's all these different games, and everybody's looking for a great game to play.

unknown 48:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:51

Uh they may not be looking to do a tournament, they want to play a great game. Yeah, it doesn't matter whether it's Napoleonics or you know, or if it's conflict.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

I think you're underestimating yourself. When you talk about the room where great games are, you're you're talking twenty five, thirty tables.

SPEAKER_04 49:08

I mean I think we had twenty. I think we had twenty-two, and my guess is it'll be closer to thirty here.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

Yeah, I mean, that's just an amazing amount of tables that the participant gets to pick beforehand or change their mind before they get there because they see a better game. So um I mean it it it's just amazing to see that that you're the main room right there at the uh Well, we hope that doesn't happen too often because game masters are counting on those guys showing up. It's amazing you have that that uh basis of game masters who are doing it. It could be now Inveled's 35 years old and we're some somewhere around there, and um you you've seen it grow. We just again I I for Warlord, I saw an opportunity because I didn't understand well, Warlord's never been in Washington State before as a corporate, and so um uh talking to John, I I I he John told me, I told him, I think we both got together, and uh I was working on another Memorial Day weekend that fell through, and that's when I said, let's go to Washington.

SPEAKER_03 50:21

That's why we were kind of last minute a little laggy, because I told him about it, he had another event, so I went ahead and like, yo, okay, we'll do something again later, and then let's do this. And I was like, shit.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Not like putting John through the test. So uh again, it's uh doing it Nevada, doing it California, uh doing it in New Mexico, doing it in Colorado. Uh, you know, it it I got five to six or seven shows a year that keeps me busy. Uh, because I have to order the product. I have to order those Panzer Ones for that one collection. Exactly. Walks.

SPEAKER_04 51:03

And how many pan? So how many Panzer ones do you order?

SPEAKER_01 51:07

I just reordered the two I sold. But you know what? I also got I I actually ordered a well, here it is. It's kind of funny out of the order sheet. And I didn't even know this about the a lot of guys. Well, speaking of what that that could the the buyer who bought those, he wanted to do early war. And a lot of people don't pay attention to early World War II. It's a lot of fun because the tanks are worthless. And you know, the Panzer III being the monster. Oh, I have two Panzer 1s and one Panzer 1A. I think that's below machine guns. I don't know what they follow.

SPEAKER_04 51:49

So is it the command vehicle? Is that the command vehicle?

SPEAKER_01 51:51

Yeah, I think it is. So and I basically uh the way I can order, and this is what's kind of different. You you saw I I I needed room for all the cabinets, right? Is that uh Warlord sells approximately, I think, 20,000 items, and that includes the pain with the model tanks with the soldiers, right? And uh a store can only get like 6,000, have access to buy. A customer can get all of them when they go to our Warlord website, but I can get all of them. So the way I order, and that's why the Mphalod uh gamer is Sean's not target, but it's a mind meld. I want to order stuff that I think an Mphalod customer order, which is different than if I'm catering to a Warhammer event. So though those guys, they love the sci-fi. Uh so I I kind of that's why I love something like Enfilab that got me all excited, is that okay, that's the Sean out there. And I want to I want him to really fit fall in love with uh Warlord products because you know, quite frankly, we're the largest historical game company in the world at this point. Uh we we have product that I I love. You know, yeah, there's a model here and a model there, but I love this product. I think the new plastics that we got, oh my God, they're amazing. I mean, we've got the plastic AT guns. Uh we all knew the the the uh Gurkha, all the plastic, the the new starter army's coming out. It's all this wonderful plastic stuff, which the industry's going to. We'll always have metal because we have to. Speaking of metal, you know what else I got coming? I got a epic, here you go, Jacobite army. Oh, I saw that. I got it. Uh John Stollard had it, and I tried to work with it and they canceled it, and then I got it, and it's a really nice Metal 15s. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

Really? Metal 15s.

SPEAKER_01 54:19

Metal 15s, yeah. I hadn't seen that in a while. So, and they're new, but I the you know um uh just just being able to play that series because it was special to me. Okay, here's Sean being kind of crazy. It was special to me because I was at, and I'll show you. I was at in 23. The Call of Den, oops, the Call of Dam battlefield.

SPEAKER_04 54:52

I was there in 2023. You were in April of 2023. I was uh I was at Collud Battlefield.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Oh, yeah, oh, and and I have a I have the t-shirt. Oh shut up. But no, and the the program is it's very professional. That's really see, it's a small world. Yeah. So when I saw Jacobi's army, I said, I can sell that because I can talk about Colin then. It's a good conversation.

SPEAKER_04 55:17

The only the only enfilade I've ever missed was in 2023. I was on a cruise around the U on the UK with my wife and my sister and her husband.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

So you went up to Stalin to see the question.

SPEAKER_04 55:31

We left out of Bergen, Norway, and went around the islands. So we went to the Shetland Islands and we went to the Orkney Islands, and we went to um the uh port that serves Inverness, and that's where we went to Clute. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:44

No, that's it's just good history.

SPEAKER_04 55:46

It was a wet day. Oh, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

I went to Brannockburg right down. I don't know if you got down there to see Brannockburg at that. I saw those uh very professional, not as professional as our Civil War battlefields that we have here in the States, but yeah. I I'd probably been to I've been all over Europe at battlefields, all over the U.S., the Civil War. I did the battle uh in New Mexico. Uh that's the part of the West Civil, where I took uh my two grandsons of my son back to Gettysburg this July or this year, and uh took them to Gettysburg, and that's the kind of stuff. But hey, I'm getting too old for that. I'm I'm 75 in August, so how much longer I could do this, hey, who knows? I'm getting it ready for John so he can take over. Yeah, you're good.

SPEAKER_04 56:37

You're good.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

Well, guys, I really appreciate you uh coming on the show. It was uh great to sit down and talk to you and pick your brains a little bit. Looking forward to seeing you guys again uh next year at MPLOD. So we'll have some uh news on that here in the near future. We're with you.

SPEAKER_04 56:55

John, John, my hope is that we'll have some sort of a November event. Um, and I'm not quite sure whether we'll be back in Shoreline. There's some talk about maybe doing something in Lake Stevens, too. So maybe we'll see you there.

SPEAKER_02 57:17

Thank you for listening to the Tanks and Tomahawks podcast. If you'd like to reach out to us, you can find us at tanks.tomahawks at gmail.com or join us over on Facebook at the Tanks and Tomahawks Facebook group.