From Promiscuity to Purity | A Redemption Story (Kathryn's Testimony)

What does it actually look like to go from a life of promiscuity… to true purity and redemption?

In this powerful episode of When Heaven Calls, Kathryn shares her raw and honest testimony of transformation — how God met her in the middle of broken patterns, rewrote her identity, and led her into a completely new way of living.

This is a story about:

• Generational trauma that passes down the family line
• Struggling with sexual sin and identity
• The emptiness of chasing temporary fulfillment
• Encountering God in a real and personal way
• What true repentance and transformation actually looks like
• Healing from sexual abuse and the past
• Walking in purity, freedom, and purpose

If you’ve ever felt stuck in cycles you can’t break… this episode will speak directly to you.

About the host:
Forest Soleil is a wife, mother, relationship coach, holistic childbirth educator and born again believer who hosts When Heaven Calls—a testimony-driven podcast centered on truth, repentance, and transformation through Jesus Christ.
www.forestsoleil.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What happens when your life is shaped by trauma, abuse, addiction, and loss? And nothing you try actually heals it. Today's story is not just about brokenness, it is about redemption. Catherine's journey includes early trauma, multiple abortions, toxic relationships, and years of searching for something that would finally bring peace until one moment changed everything. This is a story about what it really looks like to come home to God and what healing actually looks like over time. This is Catherine's testimony. You're listening to When Heaven Calls, an intimate, cozy living room space where real people share real stories of the real work that God has done in their lives and how they've been transformed since encountering the gospel. I'm your host, Forrest Soleil. When I'm not homeschooling my youngin' or in the studio sipping tea and recording a testimony, I am sure couples and families in building deeply connected relationships, cultivating peaceful homes, and preparing wholeheartedly for natural birth. Let's begin.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

It's funny when you tell your story, you're like, did that really happen? Yeah. Sometimes because you feel like such a different person.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Right. Welcome back to the When Heaven Calls podcast. I'm your host, Forrest Soleil, and I'm here with my sweet dear friend Catherine. Catherine, thank you for joining me today and being willing to share your story. Thank you. Yeah, and me. Yay, you're welcome. So, what I was thinking about before having you is that almost all of the folks that have shared their testimonies so far so far have been recently new age to Jesus or like um Marion and Mika, they had an earlier foundation, whether it was in childhood or like a later chapter of life of Christianity, but then they had a a walking away or kind of a stepping back and then this return experience. And I believe that you are the first person to share their testimony who's really been a Christian for a long time. And did you ever have an experience of walking away or turning away and then returning, or have you just really been in it ever since?

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Yeah, I would not say I had that experience. Yeah. Um, obviously like the Lord wooing me throughout my story, but definitely like uh in hindsight, like looking back and seeing wow, God's hand was here all along. Um, so yeah, when I met the Lord, I was sold out immediately.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

So Oh my gosh, so cool. I mean, it's it's cool to be with someone who's like in that new, like on fire for Jesus. But my experience of you is that you're on fire for Jesus. You've just been with him for a long time. Oh, thank you. Yeah, and it's sweet to be able to. So I'm excited to hear your story and hear um, yeah, what God has done in your life. And I'm curious, before we kind of get into the early phase of your upbringing, I wonder if you could just share a little bit about what your relationship with God is like now and um how you experience Him.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Yeah, I think that I really love the term abiding in God. I've just learned what that looks like in my personal life with having so much trauma in my story, my upbringing, always having to come back to Jesus as kind of my landing pad, where it's like he is solid, he is secure, he is certain, and everything else around me is not, if that's relationships or the world or other religions or systems, or and so I've just really had to continually come back to Jesus and in the last 23, 22 years, learn how to abide in him because of my story of origin.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Mm-hmm. That's good. You you have a way of like picking these beautiful terms and phrases in the Bible, even like the names that you've chosen for your children are so deep and meaningful. And then I, as I'm reading the Bible, I'm like, wow, so cool that they chose that name, you know. So I love that. And how would you say that Jesus experiences you?

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Oh, wow. Um what I want to believe is that I'm a breath of fresh air to him and that he adores me and delights in me. Um, you know, and that varies day to day, like where I'm landing and all the things that circle around us in our world and inner in internally and like it changes your ability to receive that. Yes, yeah, for sure. Um, but I think that what I found um continually anchors me too is the word of God, because it's like everything shifts. But if we look into God's character and we can find that in scripture. Um, and so if we look into his character of who he actually is, um, we can continue to come back and like land on that.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Yeah. Yeah. I something that I noticed or kind of gave myself when I was coming out of the new age and sort of on the fence of accepting this like totally different ideology and um choosing to walk with Jesus, even when I wasn't like a hundred percent convicted. I really thought, wow, the idea of having this all-loving father who's perfect and holy and loves me perfectly and really sees me as his daughter. And I thought, wow, that's that sounds pretty healing. Like I've been on a healing hamster wheel for a long time, and maybe I can just give myself this one. And then I said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try, I'm gonna live a biblical, I'm gonna live biblically. I think that's how I phrased it at the time. Like, I'm gonna do that for a year and see how it goes. And I'm like, wow, I'm not giving this up. It's too good, you know? And and so I wonder, like before we dive into the the story that you've walked, just like really grounding in for those who are catching us at the beginning. Has it been healing for you? And what has it been like to have this holy and righteous father God?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Yeah. Um, it's interesting that you brought that piece up because one of the scriptures that I felt led to share is the prodigal son. And um, there's a really good book by Tim Keller, I think it is, called The Prodigal God. And it kind of like, it just helps you have a fuller understanding of the character of God where it's like, wow, he like, he is the one that came out and sought out his son. And that, like, if you look at the cultural um perspective in those times, like that is that would have been degrading for the father to actually come out in his robe to give away his ring, like all the things that are in the story, yeah, it shows God's character to always be a servant to us. And so I just feel like I'll get into it later a little bit, but I had a stepdad and a biological father. And within those terms of those relationships, learning that God was, you know, all-loving and perfect and provider, and all these scenes were not replicated in my earthly fathers as much. So it was new material for me. It was like, oh, this is who God is. And so I just really had to like unwire these certain patterns in my life where it was like, I'm not believing in the love of a father, of a creator. I'm doubting again. And so um, just kind of having in community and then in scripture and just really digging in, that's something that I've done my whole walk with Jesus, is just really dig in and um just like having that fight a little bit where it's like I am truly doubting in this character, um, in in this part of your character. And so um, remind me again.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Like, remind me who you are, remind me that you're a loving father, remind me that you adore me, remind me that you come after me and that you adorn me in righteous robes. Because, like, that wasn't my story, it was never warranted. And so um to have that kind of um that kind of authority, you know, and that kind of identity really. Like as we learn the identity of the father, we then learn who we are. And so it's just a beautiful dance. Um, and so yeah, still walking it and and but super thankful for it.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

So and in your early life, did your fan did any of your family members have a Christian belief? Like, was this was the gospel ever shared with you from a young age?

SPEAKER_00 9:50

No. Um, we had like a couple Bibles that came with us, like when we were in North Carolina, I was born in North Carolina, um, and then in um High Point. And then um when we moved to North Carolina, some of the things that came with us were like a couple Bibles. Oh, but they were um Jehovah's Witness. And so, and my brother had had a very hard experience. He was the oldest of four children, and so there was a lot of dynamics, but basically, like my mom and my dad, there was supposedly a tearing because of this exposure to this religion. My mom had been exposed to Jehovah's Witnesses, and so there was a tearing of the marriage, which was necessary and vital for us to thrive and live. And um, so there was a lot of blame put on that. And so, anyway, all that to say, we had a couple Bibles in the home. And my mom, I would say, was definitely like a follower of Jesus, but she wasn't a victor, like she had not overcome. And so um, those Bibles were there, but it was not like I was never told the gospel until I was like 22. Oh wow. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

And what was the what was the early foundation of your life? Like what what were the fight family dynamics that you were born into? What was maybe your most influential relationships when you were a young child?

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yeah. So again, born in High Point and had um three older siblings. And my mom and dad were married, I think, for like nine years. When I was three years old, I never remember them being together. Don't have a single memory of him in my life. And so when I was three, um, we moved from High Point to Sioux City, Iowa. And um, it was very confusing looking back, just having some photos of that night that we left. And um, so it was like my mom and the four kids, and a couple little like neighborhood friends were in these photos. And then my uncle, and my uncle was my dad's older brother, and he had come from Minnesota in his suburban to pick up my mom and her four kids. Wow. And so it was like the middle of the night, these photos, and um, so that's kind of like the way I remember it is by the photo photographs. Um and so their mom, who it would have been my grandmother, was gonna be going into a nursing home. And so we moved into her family, like the family home in Iowa. And um, I don't know like what my dad's perspective was in all of that, but it was literally like they weren't in relationship, and then we were in the same area, we weren't even in the same town, and then we moved and his brother got us.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Oh, it was his brother.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Oh, like took us away. And then we lived in um Sioux City, Iowa. And so we landed in the home that my dad was actually raised in. And um, and my uncle went home to Minnesota. We lived in the in the home that was my grandmother's, as she was in a nursing home. And so that's kind of where I was raised. Those were my early years. I don't have lots of memory at all. Any memory I have is usually linked to a photograph. Um, and so then when I was about um six years old, my sister was eight or so, and she was in school with this gal and this girl, Leslie, and her mom was passing from cancer. And my m my sister had become really good friends with her. And so my mom went to visit this woman in in the um hospital as she's on her deathbed. And the woman looks at my mom and says, You're gonna marry my husband. And she did. Oh, wow. So that was my stepdad.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

So they fell in love. I mean, they were deeply in love, like soulmates, as one would say. And so that was my stepdad, Dan. And my mom had had like a couple of relationships that I slightly remember, definitely toxic behaviors and such such exposure to things, like at an early age before we met my stepdad, that were pretty intense, you know. So, anyways, so then my stepdad comes into our life, and we move out of my um grandma's home and into his home, which was also his late wife's home. And so we move in there, and then we were just there for like three years, and then they bought a home together. So you're I'm just like realizing your your sister became stepsisters with a dear friend, with a dear friend, but she did move like back to Texas because she had to go to be with her dad.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

So um, I don't I think they did touch base later in life and like catch up. So I catch up. My stepdad's your stepdad now. So yeah. Wow. Yeah. She, my sister's really good at keeping up with people. So yeah. So we um moved to a new home when I was nine. Okay. And that was our family home. And we all, all the children, I think, like we were like two, two and a half years apart, each of us. And I think we all really love that house. Like it was just like a really beautiful farmhouse, but kind of in like in in Iowa. So a lot of people would feel like it was rural, like it's not like city life or whatever, but it was in like a city neighborhood, like lots of walkable stuff. And basically, we had a pool that was nearby. And so every summer we were at the pool every day, but we didn't have guidance in our home. My mom had a really hard history. She had molestation in her story. Um, she was a like a working alcoholic. My mom and stepdad both were. And so they would wake up and pour the screwdriver in the morning. We had a pool table at one point instead of a dining room table because we just like had the parties at our house. Like everyone would come over, all the neighborhood folks. And so it was like a really cool home to be raised in. But like the boundaries of like childhood were not held.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

And so, like, nothing horrific happened within my home, other than like, you know, there was like rage and fighting and alcoholism. So obviously, those are things that have affected me. But um anything that happened that was like um sexual abuse and such was like outside of the home. But had my parents actually like cared for me more, like that neglect piece, if that wasn't there, like a lot of my story would have been different. And so that's why God's protection has meant so much to me because I truly wasn't protected. Like, I'm talking from the age of nine.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Wow, it's young.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

And so my friends were gang member kids, kids of gang members from California, like tons of friends from Mexico that their their dads were like gangbanging, selling drugs. Those were my friends. And how did you get connected with those friends? That you were just going to school with them? Like the walkability of our neighborhoods. So, like, if I went, I think it was like south, just by a few blocks, there's like we're we like were kind of middle class, but like on the lower end, I would say for sure. And so, like, um, and we had come up out of poverty, like we were on government food and all that as when I was little. So, like my dad and my stepdad and my mom being married give give us a little more provision. Um, but we were still like really poor. And so um, you know, the people that I hung out with were like in those neighborhoods. And um, so that led to like a lot of early on, like curiosity and promiscuity, um, drug use at like the age of 12. Um so already smoking weed and drinking and doing parties where I would be absolutely drunk, like at 12. At 12. Yeah, like in really severe, like not okay at all. Um, not just being curious and experimenting like every weekend, um, like basically starting to become like an alcoholic at the age of twelve twelve. Um, and there was smoking in the home and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

And and do you have I know you said that your memories are a little splotchy or mostly tied to photos. I don't know if you have more memories from when you're like preteen teenager. I do. You do? So do you do you remember having this home where there was parties and there was, you know, people coming over and it was a little unconventional? Do you remember at the time what it felt like? Like, did it feel free and fun and kind of popular and cool, or did you feel unsafe? Do you remember when you were starting to experiment with weed and alcohol and hanging out with the wrong crowd? What it do you remember what it felt like? Like were did did it were you not really thinking about it too much? Or did you do you remember feeling scared ever or um stressed? Do you remember if there was like a reason if you could, you know, come with one?

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Yeah. So I don't, I mean, I really look back and like looking at my story and who I am today. And I definitely would say most often I felt unsafe. I I think I was in like just natural fight or flight, like all the time. Like, I don't think I really landed out of that. Like, I don't remember feeling restful in my body, like literally until my 30s.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Um, so it was a long time of sanctification to like know what it felt like to rest. And one thing I do think of, actually, I'll I'll clarify that. I think the only time I truly felt that I was like at peace and landed was when I, my parents would have me come into their room at night often and we would watch a movie together. And my mom would just rub my hair and we would sit together. But we're like watching like rated R movies.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

So I'm like, I'm a little girl, but then I'm like watching like literally demonic movies um from the time I can remember with porn and everything in the movies. So no filter. So um, but like my mom's touch, I think, was when I felt safe.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

So yeah, it's interesting to think about that.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Yeah. It's some people don't know how to create safety and create like that meaningful presence and connection. And so as children, we're like just clinging to the moments that we can receive them. Yeah. Yeah. Feeling care for the younger version of you. Yeah, thanks. Yeah. So you were you were hanging out with this crowd, and there was more drugs and alcohol, and it seems like it was kind of Going on every weekend. Where did that lead to?

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Yeah. So when I was, so I kind of started messing around with boys and stuff hand in hand, like at 12 or so, I guess. And there was one incident where I was at one of my little boyfriends' homes, and um one of the adult men took advantage of me. And he was the boyfriend of my friend's mom. Um and so what actually ended up happening was the mom walked in on us. And, you know, I'm like 12 and this guy's in his 20s. And because of like my brain kind of my wires being so crossed, like I kind of thought it was okay. Like I thought, oh, this is like normal. And um, so it took a lot of work, like looking back and seeing like this is not more normal. Like this is molestation, like this is crazy, you know, on the verge of rape for sure. Um and then another friend that he was this this adult was friends with, did the same thing to me. And I had to fight him off of me. I'm like 12 years old. When you were the same house, it was a different house, but they knew each other, and he was like huge and like literally I had to run away from him.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Amazing. You were able to get away.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Yeah. So it was terrifying, and that was like, and you know, it it was interesting in that culture because like I was loved and liked by a lot of people, but it feels like that shame kind of follows you. Like when something like that happens to you and someone knows that story, they can view it as like, oh, it's just like this little girl is like promiscuous or whatever. And it's like I was still a virgin at that point. And so it didn't even make sense. Like, and I don't think that it was like I wasn't like severely made fun of, but it was like you get feeling on the back burner, whereas like loyalty to family was stronger than like the truth of the story. And so um, so that was really hard because I kind of had to like move out of going to that neighborhood, even.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

And my parents didn't know about that. So there was no protection. It was me coming into protecting myself, me moving away from that neighborhood. And this is walkable to my home. I mean, like eight blocks, but like we walked all over.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

And so had to reevaluate where I was going on my summer days and after schools. And it's a heavy burden to have to think about. Yes, at that young, too. And I think about, you know, my son now is 12. I'm like, yeah, he could have never navigated that. Like, that's it's so horrific. So, like, that fight or flight was so deeply within me. And I will say too, my mom had molestation in her story from a uncle and grandfather. Um, the same two men that molested her mother.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

So, yeah, so that would have been her brother and dad, my grandmother.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

And my grandmother was a prostitute. And so my mom was one child that my grandmother kept, but she put a lot of children up for adoption. And my mom was born in 47 in rural um Wisconsin, very, very poor, very poor. Like she said they didn't have hot water, like they had to heat their water on the stove, like, really poor. And um, so uh, you know, eventually my mom ended up reconnecting briefly with a few of her siblings that had been adopted out. So my mom had a lot of sorrow and sadness in her story that she never overcame because she wasn't fully surrendered to Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Yeah. So that's a really that's a lot of heaviness, and it's so interesting to see the the dots connecting between our family line. And I I wonder if you could speak about that from a Christian perspective of generational trauma. And, you know, you've been a Christian for a long time. Have you in conversations with friends, like have you noticed similar things where people will experience a similar trauma as family members past? I know it's something when I was more in new age spirituality that people are aware of a lot and go about in a lot of different ways. Have you noticed that to be something that's acknowledged among the population of Christians that you know? And what have you learned is the antidote to it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Yeah. So in a Christian context, you call it like a generational curse. And that's kind of the verbiage that um comes to mind. And when I was a brand new believer um in my early 20s, um, I came across a book that introduced me to that concept. And so another word that would be used is like a spiritual echo, is another thing that people say. And there's lots of new things that I've learned in this current day. You know, one saying is um by Pete Cesaro is like, there's grandpa in your bones. And so it's the idea that, like, as you're showing up to a table, like you're actually bringing like eight people with you to the table. And so, you know, there's a lot more resources, I think, today than there were when I became a believer. And I think when I first became a believer, like that idea was fairly charismatic in that charismatic pocket of Christianity. And though I I've always danced in charismatic like worship and like in in just like the the pocket, the culture of charismatic Christianity, like it really speaks to me because I'm very vibrant and I also operate in the gifts. And so that's like been an area that I've really like appreciated, but we don't always solidly land like in a community that is that way. Um, you know, and sometimes I wonder too, my husband's like more theologian. So it's like we don't quite fit in just say this Presbyterian, super gospel-centric, you know, belief area, you know, or like just charismatic pocket, as I'm speaking of. But so, anyways, um I think that now today there's a lot of resources out there that are really, really good. And predominantly I just love, as you know, neurotheology. So, like the neuroscience ideas coming in with theology. And so those things are gonna come up with generational because there's things that come up in our thought patterns where we're like, where's this coming from? Like, I just don't quite write. Or like in my story, back to where we were going with the narrative, where it's like um this promiscuity that kept coming up, where it's like, why am I continuing? And you see, like back to my grandmother, where it's like, oh, okay, like this is in your bones. This is in your family line. And you probably didn't know about that at that age. Well, we so we knew about some of the things early on. My, my, and that's, you know, that lack of filter with my mom and like this lack of protection carried over. So, like, there were things that I shouldn't have known, you know, early on, probably. Like, I I should have been more protected in regard even to my family history. And so um, my mom's passed now. So I'm glad that she did tell her story because she passed when I was 22 before I knew Jesus. So, like I wouldn't know as much about my family had she not just given it over freely, you know? So, all that to say, like, I think that, you know, back to your question, like, you know, the blood of Jesus, right? Like covers me and all of the generations before me. Like, he has used me to break some of those curses in my family. And so that's like, it's empowering when we really tap into that reality that the truth of the gospel, Jesus dying for our sins, perfect and blameless, and us accepting that as the truth, then that covers us and our generational line. Like, so there's like there's sanctification, but that salvation piece locks it in. Like it locks in the sanctification journey. Sanctification is walking out our salvation, right? And so, like, we're unworking this stuff, and that's the um sanctification piece, but the salvation is solid. And so um, yeah, so I just think that that covers, like it covers all that my that I've walked through in my life.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Wow, it's so powerful. And I I mean, I can say for myself, one of the reasons I finally crossed over the threshold was truly just a desire to heal. Truly like falling to my knees and like, please, God, like help me break these chains of my seems like generational curse, generational trauma. I've tried the hamster wheel of all the things, I've done all the modalities, I've, you know, and I can't do it on my own. Yeah. And it sounds like you're saying it's just that that faith of like receiving the free gift that God has already given to us.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

And that covers it. And it's not like something that we have to rewire ourselves or do 10 years of therapy about.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Powerful. Yeah. And I think, you know, in Christ, it's like we have to come to our bottom. Like there's a bottom that every single human is gonna hit. That is the design that God has put in place. And so when we see people that are struggling or whatever they're going through, and you know, it's like, God, is that their bottom yet? Like, have they reached their bottom? Please make it their bottom. Help them look up, help them look up, you know, because that's what it takes. It takes the end of self, the end of ego, the end of pride. And that is when we can receive, when we say, I need to be a recipient of grace. Like when we release the I've got it figured out, I've got this. Um, when we release that ego and that pride, that is when the spirit can just come in and restore everything. And that doesn't mean everything is just fixed, right? We get there's doctrinal belief that that's what happens. It's like that's not reality. Like, reality is some people get delivered from alcoholism the day they accept Jesus. Some people have a journey to walk. Like it's each person, you know, it's it's not, there's not like this like formula. Yeah. You know, the formula is accept Christ. And and that's that's it. Nothing added. Bam. Done.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Case closed. So kind of rewinding back to you experiencing these, yeah, these really hard, difficult, heavy molestation experiences and and being a young, impressionable child, and then taking on this heavy burden of I can't go here and I'm feeling shame, and people are, you know, making me maybe responsible for this or making it mean something about my character or my identity. How did you hold that? Where did you go from there? Like, was there did you make it mean something about you? Did you seek healing in some way? Like, what did you turn towards?

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Yeah, that's a good question. I think that, like, if I if I have to really be honest with that question, I don't think that my culture was setting me up for success. Like, I was thinking about that in in preparation for this. I'm like, you know, the culture I was around was very shallow. Like it, it was just a shallow culture. People aren't trying to find God. You know, a lot of them believe God's there. That's not the problem. I wasn't surrounded by atheists, agnostic, right? Where it's God's here, but you don't have a relationship with them kind of thing. Um, so I mean, truly and honestly, I was thinking about that um even today. And I'm like, I literally turned to men. Like, I literally turned to men. Like I did not fight the pattern that was given to me. And so, like, I got into my first serious relationship when I was 15. And that's where I lost my virginity. I was with him for two and a half years, and we were like, I was very committed. I found out through his sister that he was cheating on me pretty much all along. He was taking other girls' virginities, like that was his pattern. And he was addicted to sex, I would say. And so it was so many times, like through the day, that we would have sex. And my husband now was the one that gave me the reality in a loving way, where it was like, this was rape. Like you were actually in a relationship where he was forcing your will. And so that wasn't until my 30s that I had that realization. So this there were just things back to back setting me up for failure. By the time we broke up, um, my parents were so loving that he was like living in my basement of my family home. He was selling drugs out the side door. Um, it finally ended when I went downstairs and saw guns and crack and crank on my bed.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

In my living room or in my bedroom. Wow. I don't even know what crank is. So just like dirty, nasty powder drug that you can like smoke or snort, like really yucky, like makes your face like cratered. It's like chemical yuck.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Not that any drug is great, but I mean, it was really bad. Like his face had become like a crater face. Like, and um, and so anyway, so I'm like having this realization that this dude is like cheating on me. He's selling drugs out of our side door of our family home.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Totally disrespecting your family.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

Disrespecting my family, like, and I'm like loyal to my family, like we are tight. Like my family, my parents were not like great in certain areas, but we were tight, like anything that happened to me. Like they were so like, if they knew, right? Yeah, there were those hidden sexual things that happened and things like that. But we were like tight family. And so I think finally, like, I don't know how it all transpired, but finally he like left and he moved next door. Ugh. The dude would not leave. So he was literally like, you walk out my side door of like that was my entrance. Cause I'm like, you know, 15, 16, got my own entrance. And he's literally boom, right there.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

And was that a coincidence, or was that he's like tried to get next door?

SPEAKER_00 38:22

I mean, it was available, you know. You're like a young, he was probably, you know, 16 or 17, whatever it was. And um, his mom was like a jailer, his stepdad was a cop.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

We were like in his home doing things, hiding under the under the jailer, like seriously, like in our in the house that we were hanging out in when we were at his place. So, anyways, it was just a setup for disaster. All the while I'm like doing, I was just smoking weed and um drinking and smoking cigarettes. So, like I was able to not do those drugs, which was really great because it was like in my face all the time. And we had all of our friends were like drug dealers or like people that he was selling to, people we were partying with. And then I started to do things like LSD and like um, I think I was just really seeking. Like, that's what I look back and I see. I was like, I was really trying to have like experiences, and I think I was set up for like I wanted spiritual experience, but like it was definitely like my culture wasn't telling me that. And so I think I was very influenced by culture, where it was like, okay, we're doing this for an experience, whatever happens, happens, kind of thing, you know? And um, and so that was kind of um that was kind of what happened until my parents ended up moving to Florida, my mom and my stepdad. My real dad at this point is still in Charlotte, North Carolina. And you haven't seen him since I saw him like two or three times until basically my oldest brother got married. So my oldest brother left the home when I was 12 and moved to Charlotte. And he started interning with my real dad as a photographer. And so he was kind of the bridge to rebuild our relationship with our dad. My brothers kind of always kept up with my dad, but my mom almost like forbid me and my sister.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Your brother was older, so he had more time with your dad too.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Yeah. And just like they were boys too. Yeah. You know, where mom felt like she wouldn't have to protect them like they were boys. And so, um, so he went to Charlotte and turned with my dad in in the city. Um, and so that was a really cool thing, that cool opportunity for my brother to learn photography, which he's still doing today. Like he has a very prestigious business. Um, and so my dad trained him at the beginning. Um, and then my second brother ended up moving to Charlotte too to be with brother, right? They're really close. And so they live together and such. And then let's see, and then so yeah, so that's um that's like 12 and 15, let's say, and then 17-ish. I'm like breaking up with that boy, that whole thing is unraveling. Yeah. And then my parents end up moving to Florida, my mom and stepdad. You stayed in that house next. So, no, so the house got sold. We moved. Um, I moved in and like with some girlfriends, lived in like a party house. And um, basically my parents were like, Well, you can come with us if you want. And I was like, No, like I'm good, like I'm established here, whatever. Like, I didn't say that at that age, but it wasn't an option, you know? And um, so anyways, so that was then when I got pregnant my first time. And so it was kind of shocking. I didn't get pregnant that whole time. I was like on the birth control shot and stuff, but um, so I ended up getting pregnant, and one of my dear friends had had an abortion, and so I kind of didn't have any doubt. Like I was just like, this is what I need to do. Like, and I ended up having another abortion after that. And I've actually had I had three, but that's like basically it was like almost becoming my form of birth control, where it was like I didn't want to own up to like who I was with, or like I didn't know who I was pregnant by because of the promiscuity of my life. Um and how old were you? So this is like 17 to um 22 or 21 were all three abortions were in that window. And so I stayed in Iowa for a while. And then when I went and ended up going to get my second abortion, I was in a like relationship with this guy that was physically aggressive with me. And so that's why I chose the abortion there, because I was like, I'm not gonna deal with this. Yeah, it's not safe. And um, and so back then it was like, it's your body, kind of like do what you want. The kind of anthems changed, like how they phrase it, like now it's like my body, my choice kind of thing. But back then it was like it's not even a baby yet. Like that's what they told you, and that's what the experience was. So I felt very misinformed. I felt very non educated in my decision. And just with the history and all of that, like I was, I mean, my babies were all black. So like I was very entrenched in that culture. And um, so yeah, I definitely wasn't educated in my decision. And mind you, I'm like working. I am in community college. I'm like handling life. I'm like total drug addict, but like handling things. Yeah. Like my head is above water. Like I'm functional. I'm in a way thriving at what I'm doing. You know, I was gonna go to school for art and all this stuff. So that second um pregnancy and I chose abortion, I was like, I gotta get out of here. Like I've got to get out of this pattern. And so I got a hold of my brothers and they kind of helped me move. I hopped on a greyhound, left everything behind. My parents had already gone to Florida. My sister was still in Iowa at that point with four children. And um, and so, and she was in her own crazy scene. She was in a relationship, but definitely with an abusive dude and a drug addict. So, and then um, so yeah, so end up coming, going to Charlotte, North Carolina, and I was 20 by that point. Um, and landed at my brother's briefly, the eldest, and then he like took me in. He's wonderful, man. And then I him and his wife, and then I found my own apartment. And, you know, I thought, oh, I'm just like, I'm rising above. I'm out of here. Like this place has ruined me. I'm like starting over, and it just continued.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

I was gonna say, my experience of Charlotte is such a drug town.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

Yeah, yeah. It found me. Like, I was like, I lived in an apartment complex. The guy that was the handyman was an ecstasy drug dealer.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Um a friend of mine, right? Yeah. Um, I had lost my license because of drunk driving and no insurance in Iowa. So that's why I went on a greyhound with a backpack. Like I left everything. And um, and so, like, you know, I'm in Charlotte and then I start working. And every place I work, it's just like I'm friends with the drug dealers. Like, I'm not friends with the druggies. Like, I'm friends with the dudes that are the source. Yeah. And so I've got my girlfriends at the parties. Like, I'm like bringing the party everywhere, just like my parents did in their home, you know, like the keg stat with my dad's homemade beer.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

And so, like, that's the culture that I brought with me everywhere I went. Um, and so um, yeah, so I had moved there to get my abortion. Like, that's why I moved there. Um, and so I moved and got my own place.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

Were you not able to in the state with the state level?

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Yeah, that's confusing, but um, I think that it might have been too close in time to the other abortion. It but I don't know that for sure. But that's like the story that I remember. Um, and so um my brothers were, you know, support, like come, like start over, get out of there. Yeah, you know. And so I moved on a grayhound to Charlotte. And I'm like, I'm leaving this in the past, da-da-da-da. No cell phones then. So literally, like I I'm on the payphone to the dude I just left, and he's like pleaing to me to like come back and stay. And I'm like, I'm leaving. Because I told him I was pregnant. That's why he tried to choke me. Yeah, he literally tried to choke me. Oh my god. When I was pregnant.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

You know, I just man, studying birth work, that has been the most tragic thing to learn is that the number one cause of death for pregnant women is domestic violence.

SPEAKER_03 47:56

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

I know it's why I was running here and you experienced that. Yes, yeah. It's crazy hearing your testimony and seeing all the different moments that you could have just been taken out. Right. Yeah. And that you're literally sitting here, able to tell your story. It's just even a miracle that you're alive. Thank you. Wow. Yeah, glory to God. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

Yeah, because like even in moving to Charlotte, like I moved on a greyhound because I didn't have a license because I had lost it from drinking and driving. And I'm not talking one time, I'm talking probably a hundred.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

I was like regularly driving.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Close one eye. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

Yeah, like literally, like horrific. And so I had gotten three tickets that then led to me losing my license. So I'm like young. I'm like 18, 19, losing my license. Um, backward a little bit in that time. Like I was living on couches. I was couch surfing, you know, and living at friends' houses. Um, I ended up like living at a guy's house that robbed a convenience store. And I came home from a crazy road trip that I was actually in a stolen vehicle and I didn't even know it. The guys I went with were in a stolen vehicle. I get back, dropped off from, you know, like come home, and there the FBI is at my house. So I'm thinking it's linked to me being in a stolen vehicle, but it wasn't. The guy I was staying with had robbed the convenience store down the road. So all of my belongings that were in his apartment were in the dumpster. They dumped everything in the dumpster. So all I had left was what was in my car that was just sitting in the parking lot. And they were getting ready to ransack that.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

You know, I had to coerce them to leave my stuff alone and like left. They're like, gather your whatever you need and get out of here. And so I was able to leave.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Um, so just like moments of like, like you said, like, wow, God was really in my story because like I was, you know, I I ended up getting tried out as an escort, which could have turned to sex trafficking.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

I stripped one time with a girlfriend to make money. I could have continued that. You know, I was promiscuous. I could have gotten AIDS. Like I'd lost my license from drinking and driving. I could have literally died hundreds, like a hundred times over. And then I had the second abortion as I go to Charlotte, thinking I'm leaving all this in the past. I'm done. But I didn't have like, I didn't have Jesus first off, but I didn't have any modalities that were working for me. Like nothing I was doing was working. The escapism and the drugs wasn't working. The relationships that I was pursuing where that person would be my God, that wasn't working. That was ending. My parents, them being stable for me, that wasn't stable. You know, like nothing was stable in my life. Me going to college wasn't working. Right. Because I'm doing drugs. Me having two or three jobs to pay the bills, not working. I would just flow through jobs. I was waiting tables or bartending. So like I would just flow through jobs if something would come up, or I'd like mess around with someone at the work at work, and I didn't want to be a part of that anymore. I would move on.

SPEAKER_02 51:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

So I mean, one year I had like 13 jobs in one year, and that was without a vehicle in Charlotte.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Your taxes must have been a nightmare. What I'm what I'm getting, or maybe this is just my interpretation of it, but knowing you now and hearing this, I'm thinking this must be one of the reasons that you feel so strongly called to discipleship and mentorship because you really lacked that. Yes. You really lacked like a grounded, solid leader and guide and mentor and someone who could bring you back to the word or, you know, just like help to encourage you in the way that you should go. And so I bet you just really see the value of that and really want to help encourage life.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

Yeah, that is very perceptive and very true. Yeah, I just didn't have it in my life. And I really desired it all along. That's the thing. I was such like, I wanted community, I wanted connection, I wanted transparency. Mind you, it would come out in the wrong way, you know. Like if we don't deal with our junk, it comes out sideways, like a pressure cooker. And so I didn't know, I didn't have modalities of communication or like, you know, ways to heal up or get with Jesus or have my quiet time or whatever. And like I had reason to be mad. I had reason to be angry, like I had reason to be furious that no one fought for my purity. You know, like I had and my name even means pure. Catherine means pure. And so, like, that was a part of my coming to when I came back to Jesus because I was called Katie. And then I went to Kat and like anyway, so I had different name variations throughout the years. When I came to Jesus, I was like, I'm back to Catherine. Like, this means pure. Like God has purified me. And so that was like in my um 20s, you know. So, like basically moved to Charlotte, ended up getting my second abortion. I met someone on the Greyhound and moved him into my house. So literally from Michael he was from Michigan, random person.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

Can he get rid of the Michigan?

SPEAKER_00 53:49

I know, just the yeah. So, like, I, you know, I moved into an apartment like a month after I moved to Charlotte. It was very quick. That guy moved in with me. I ended up getting pregnant again. Maybe I don't know whom from, like how that all worked out. So that point, I ended up, and and the reason I talk about this stuff will come forth later. So I'm very freed up from this stuff, but it is a huge part of my journey. So, anyways, so I ended up getting a morning after pill, but I was further along than I thought. So I just had like a full-on abortion in my home by myself. Yeah. So, and I never went to the morning after pill, or you mean Yeah. So, like it just like riddled me of everything. Oh, you knew that you were pregnant, and then you took the morning after pill. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

So it wasn't the morning after, it was like while after.

SPEAKER_00 54:49

Yeah, but I didn't know that. Yeah. Like I just was like, if this works, it's gonna work either way.

SPEAKER_02 54:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

And so I'm talking, I was vomiting, diarrhea, blood everywhere. Like it was like I was like dying in my home by myself.

SPEAKER_01 55:07

When when you were at home and you were it's, I mean, to me, it sounds like a birth experience.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

Did you birth your birth? Um, I'm not sure. I was just like on the toilet so much um dealing with that. Yeah. And I already had so much shame around the other two abortions. And um, so it was just like it was my option. Yeah. It didn't feel like I had any other option.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

I bet it created in you. I wonder if the experience in some way was for you. Like to really have such a physical, like visceral experience of abortion. It's like there's no way to not realize what it is. It's maybe different when you're going into like a clinic and it's more kind of you know, buttoned up. Whereas you really had the full experience there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:00

Yeah. Well, and they do the abortion pill now. Like they del they'll just you can get it, you know, and that's what happens to women. Like that's what they can go through at home. What you went through. Yes, for sure. And so I'll kind of dog ear that part of the story because it comes around later and it's really important the way it did come around. After that third abortion, I was working waiting tables and I met this girl. And so I'm like 21, maybe at this point. Um, and she told me about Jesus. She was uh working with you or she was a company? She worked with me. And um, she was really active at the university in Charlotte. And she was also a partier. So she like didn't fit in the box, which I loved. And so, like, we're partying together, and she's like telling me about Jesus on the side. And then she's like, I've got some friends I want you to meet. And so she was really active at the with the foreign exchange students. And so I all of a sudden, I was already surrounded by like black Muslims, were my friends. Like I had friends from Palestine and Pakistine and or Pakistan, however you say it. Anyway, I had friends from all over the Middle East, friends from that was primarily it, but we would like smoke hookah, and like I was friends with all these very multicultural, amazing, like dynamic group of people, but we're all doing ecstasy and smoking hookah and drinking tons of alcohol and doing cocaine. And so, you know, and so then she comes in and she's like, I've got all these people I know, whatever, at university. And so um, I end up meeting all these people, and they're all followers of Jesus. And so she tells me, she says, Friday nights, the guys take us out on dates. And we go like to the, you know, to the movies and go to to eat dinner, and we all go together as a group, but we have our little, you know. It's so cute. And it was so sweet and pure and beautiful. And I like looked at her and I go, what are you giving them? I was like, this, you know, this ain't for free. Like, I literally was like, there is no way that there's men that there are men out there that are taking you to eat into a movie. Yeah. So that was my perspective. I had no clue that there were good people that were able to like give that to you without. I'm like, you you gotta kiss them. You're like kissing or like making out in the movie theater. And she's like, no, we're like, they're just taking us. And so at one point, there was one girl that like she was like really wanted to give me like the gospel. And so they came to my apartment. And so I was living in an apartment and with the ecstasy dealer as the handyman. And, you know, they're like, we want to do a Bible study with you. So they came. I don't remember the Bible study, but all I all I remember is like looking at them and saying, I know that Jesus is real. And I said, and I'm not ready to give my life to him.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 59:38

So I was like, I knew it. I denied the gospel. And at this time, my boyfriend, who would just come in on the weekend, that was my weekend man. I had dudes in the week that I would see as well. But like my weekend man was a hit man. He was straight up hiring people. Yes. And he told me, and I was like so into him that I was like, just keep it on the side. Like, I don't want to hear anything about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

It didn't scare you.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

I I felt safe with him. I was like, he would take me out to dinner. We were like really intimately involved. And like I was just like, that's how debased I was. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:23

My gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:24

And then my weekly dude that for a while there was like this guy that was selling, but you know, he had like a Cadillac, and he was like, you know, the top dude that everyone was like dating, you're dating that dude. And I was like, you know. So I just had a high, like all the guys I was dating at that point were like high caliber in the drug scene.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:47

And in the drug world.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:49

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

Yeah. And like that's who my that's who my crew was.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:54

It's so interesting to see in the world and then walking with God, like what we're pedestaling and what we're glorifying. It's so different. Oh my goodness. And so they shared the gospel with you. You rejected it, I'm imagining, because it just they probably explained it to you, and it just felt really difficult to receive.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:18

Yeah, I knew the cost. I mean, I really did. I'm like, because I said I'm not willing to give my life fully to him. Like I knew. I'm, you know, I had like Catholic schooling stuff, sixth to ninth grade. I wouldn't say, like, oh, that was like I was raised, like raised Catholic, wouldn't say that. Um, we barely went to mass or anything throughout my life, except when I was in that schooling. But I do look back and I see people that I'm like, oh, they I think they were Christian for real. Like they were, they loved Jesus. And so there were little, you know, sprinkles throughout my history where it was like, oh, that. And sixth to ninth grade, that's when I was experiencing a huge amount of that stuff that was going on in my early childhood.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:07

You know, where I didn't feel safe.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

So yeah, so they presented the gospel and I wasn't willing to surrender.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

And somewhere in all of that, basically, what ended up happening was my brother, the oldest, so this my two brothers and myself living in Charlotte. We didn't even see each other that much, but we're in the same city. My sister's still in Iowa with four kids in an abusive relationship with a Kraken. And then so we're like, my brother gets a call, and my parents are down in Florida still, mom and stepdad. And um, he's like, basically, the nurse said, If you want to see your mom, you need to get her now. And so he calls me up middle of the night. Him and my brother pick me up, and we go to Florida. And we got there too late. Oh, we didn't get to see my mom. So the last time I saw my mom, I was 21. So in the throes of all of that, like that at home abortion. I saw my mom somewhere around that time. And my stepdad, they came to visit me and like bought me a TV for my home. Like, just so, so wonderful, such sweet, sweet people. And um, my sister, like, had she had we gotten there, my sister wouldn't have gotten there. And so that is like the resolve that God's given me is that my sister would not have been there with me and my siblings, like when my mom passed away. So, like, I felt comforted in that, where it's like all four of us wouldn't have been there, you know, because she had to get on a plane from Sioux City and find childcare. And if we would have gotten it. She wouldn't have been there, but she wouldn't. Me and my brothers would have been. But she would have missed. Yeah. And it would have just been a wedge, I think, for our whole relationship. And like we're really, really tight and now, and so I'm like, okay. Like, I'm okay that God did it that way. It's a part of my story, you know. So and she had so she ends up coming to Florida. She had to leave, I think, her children with the crackhead ex, which is terrifying. She had like three kids and diapers or four kids and diapers at once. I mean, girl had like um back to back.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:31

And so she had to like get on a plane and come. And so we were all in Florida together. As we were riding, me and my brothers, as we are riding into um Florida, we pulled over at a rest stop to receive the news that my mom had passed. And as we're driving, right before we land at the rest stop, all like a swarm of dragonflies drop on our vehicle. I mean, we're going down the interstate. They drop on our vehicle. So fast while you're driving so fast.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:07

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:08

And they like basically ride with us into the rest stop. And my brother had seen the movie Dragonfly, which I never actually watched, but he saw it the night before. What? And it's like literally this guy, like his wife or something, passes away and she comes back to like see him after she passes. And so that was all fresh in his mind. And so that was a part of our story, the three of us together. And we continued after a couple of years after her passing, seeing dragonflies. I have a tattoo on my back of a dragonfly for my mom. But we continued and like in native tradition, because like I was, I was definitely like pulling from different um religions and traditions and like trying to find my way. Spiritually in that time too. And so in native tradition, like dragonflies lift the spirits to the heavens. That's literally like what they say. And so I had like messed with like numer numerology and Egyptology and tarot a little bit and stuff like that. Also, I didn't mention that my mom was like training me to be a psychic when I was a kid. Wow. So that is a part of our story too, where I just had this weird thing with my mom. So we would sit and like read each other's minds. And my mom was like called on, if there were like ghosts in a home, to come and like check the space and clear the space. Is that what your mom did as a profession? She was like, No, just like it was one of it was like in relationship that people would find that out about her, that she was really perceptive and had like a psychic, which now being a believer, it's like that's like prophetic and that's discernment. And so these gifts are transferred, right, in the kingdom. Like and they're they're like shown to us when we're not believers and they get used to glorify false gods, right? Or ourselves. But then in the kingdom, you they actually God will bring them and show them and bring them to the surface. So, yeah, so that dragonfly experience, we pull into the rest area, have that experience, the three of us together, and then get to my stepdad, because my stepdad had like MS. Um, and so he had that the whole time. We were with him, like since I was six. And so that was a part of our like upbringing that we had a dad, or you know, that we didn't know like where he was gonna be in his body.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:42

So he would like have he could numb out on one side or forget where he was going. There were new g no GPSs during that time, so like he would forget where he was occasionally. So that's the unsafety piece.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:54

His caregiver.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:56

And then I would say companion more than caregiver because it wasn't always necessary. They cared for each other, I would say. But then my mom didn't drive because she had a lot of fear around driving. So that was another reason I was like walking the town all the time because my parents didn't drive. Yeah. So then they're in Florida, and you know, my mom passes. And so um, I ended up moving in with my dad, my stepdad. So I left Charlotte. I went back to Charlotte, got everything tied up, called the Salvation Army, said come pick up all my stuff, packed a vehicle, and me and my dad drove back to um Florida. So that's how I transferred down to Florida.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

Oh, okay. So then you moved down there with him at that point. Wow. And I'm I'm noticing I'm like still feeling this curiosity about your mother, you and your mother, like kind of kind of doing this telepathic psychic thing. And I think you had sent me some notes before our um this testimony share. And I think I remember you writing something about Ouija board.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:04

Yeah, there was like a we just found like a Ouija board in our attic of our home where my dad, when we first moved to Susini. And so there was a Ouija board up there, and the older kids would play with it. So that was like a part that it's funny, like I have like three memories from that house, and that's one of them. You know? So that HBO, like, yeah, you know, like not, oh, and my my uncle's wooden leg in the basement. Those are like my three memories.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:38

So like not a lot of memory before like six years old. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:42

And so these kind of, I mean, I would say Ouija board is sort of witchcraft, and then the the psychic stuff is kind of this energy work, or um, as you phrased it, which is really great, like using your gifts for the wrong kingdom. Um yeah, did you have like an experience of kind of entertaining new age ideologies? Or and was the reason for it seeking healing? Um, or was it just I remember earlier you said you have this sort of always seeking, seeking these experiences, whether that was truth, or you, you know, you didn't grow up in a culture of spirituality and you know, cultivating identity. It was kind you were a bit of a product of the culture that you grew up in and didn't have this mentorship and discipleship, but that you had this sort of yearning and seeking. Is that what led you into experiencing some of those things? Or was it mostly your mother introducing you to that?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:44

Yeah. So I think by the time I was in Charlotte, um, I should have inserted that there, but by the time I was in Charlotte, I was definitely like more spiritually seeking.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:54

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:54

Like once I had that third abortion situation, like I I was, and I was always kind of like, I know there, I know there's a God, like I know there's something like I'm missing, like I'm missing something. And I remember like showering and asking for to be purified. Like I would just like do the, and I've ended up coming into like a ritual practice of like washing, um, like like a mikvah. Like I'm literally like washing myself under the water. And I just always, like in my 20s, I before I knew Jesus, I would just want to be washed and washed and purified and cleaned. And so um I start I like met some people that were like universalist, which we've talked about in the past, where it was like more like the universe is God. There's lots of different religions, but that is it was like, and they also like embraced numerology. Numerology was a huge thing, and then Egyptology, and kind of like this like woman is God, like feminist type thing, but like woman being God. So I was very like, I wouldn't say worship, but almost by this group that I ended up meeting in Charlotte. And but then their roots were like black Muslim. So it was like this interesting year of, you know, searching out these different things. And when I was, when I ended up being in Florida, I and I had like a tarot deck and stuff at some point, and I ended up doing um yoga. I was doing yoga often. And so that was definitely a part of my practice. And but it was so funny because it was very quickly after I started yoga, I had an outer body experience, like almost immediately.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:47

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:48

So like I was literally like looking down at my body. And it didn't like really scare me. It was like I kind of knew. I was like, is this? I guess I've like done the thing. Like I've kind of is this yoga? I know. I'm like, have I like arrived? Like I think I've ascended. I know. That's how it felt. It was like, okay, well, I'll keep practicing, but like, I don't know if that will happen again. But if that's what I'm after, I don't really want that. Like, that's not what I'm trying to attain here. And so I was definitely like curious and like I was curious and exploring, but through relationship rather than like, I'm here. You know, it was very much um like I gained my academia as a Christian for sure. Um, and so like before Jesus, I wasn't like just sitting around reading books and exploring um New Age or and I've told you this too, like New Age wasn't even a terminology back then. You know, um, you were, I guess, universalist or spiritual. Spiritual. Um, New Age seems like a newer term for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:05

Yeah, when I was in it, I we weren't calling it that. Right. It's like what Christians call it. Right. Once you're out. I'm curious. Yeah. You're like, oh, I mean, also when I was living in Costa Rica and very much like at the height of that chapter for myself, I really thought like I had found this community and we were doing this really unique thing. And then when I moved to the States and even met people in the suburbs that were talking about oneness, I'm like, what? Is this the main stream? I had no idea. I thought we were in our little like unique conscious community village, and I didn't know it had spread all over, and it's actually been around for a long, long time. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:46

That was a term we use, conscious. Yeah. That was a like because um we were also into like that type of music. So conscious hip-hop.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:55

Oh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:56

Positive techniques. Exactly. So I went from like kind of being in like listening to a lot of like rap and stuff when I was younger. And then I I've gone through lots of different music genres through my years, but but yeah, conscious hip-hop was another one.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:12

So I think like music was a form of worship for me. Um, dance was a form of worship. Like, I went dancing all the time. And so that was definitely like a spiritual practice for me was body movement. So, yeah, and then like drug use was definitely like spiritual for me, but I wouldn't have said it in that time, if that makes sense. Like, I look back at it now and I can say that, but like I wouldn't say, like, I don't know, I don't think I dove in as deep as some people. Yeah. Like I was kind of not not shallow, but kind of surface. Right. With some things because deep was all that other junk that I've just already talked about. Like that was the stuff that was under the surface. Yeah. And I didn't want to go there with anyone. It was so shameful, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:03

Mm-hmm. So yeah, it's amazing that you're able to talk about it now and not be like burdened with that shame and just, you know, authentically wanting to share your story. Thank you. Yeah. Um, yeah, it was interesting for me when I heard you sharing about the different sorts of drugs and things that the group that you were in at different chapters were experimenting with. And a lot of them sounded like really hard drugs. But then when you said LSD, I wondered because that tends to be something that people are seeking spiritual experiences, even if it's, you know, ultimately not what they're actually hoping for. Yeah. Um, but I know a lot of people will be seeking to have these big, you know, what's the meaning of life and what are we really doing here, and that kind of stuff when they're on LSD.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:51

Yeah. Yeah, definitely curiosity. And I mean, we did like mushrooms and stuff too, where it was like, I think just a level of curiosity, getting curious with my body, getting curious with others. Um, and I would say, like, for me, I don't think that I ever went through a like, there is no God. It was more like, Who are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:13

You know, that, and I so I kind of like always kind of landed there. Yeah. You know, where it was like I wasn't questioning if there was a God.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:23

So when I met Jesus, like, so when I went to Florida, um, so I had that experience in in Charlotte where it was like this the gospel was presented.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:35

And um, yeah, and I'm like, nope, I'm good. And then I went to Florida again trying to like release. And then I had a dude come from Charlotte and visit me at the beach. And like, I mean, it just would not leave me alone. Like, I just could not, and that's where that generational piece comes in. Like, um, like, I mean, we could get real Christian here and say, like, Jezebel's Jezebel spirit, or like, you know, where that just lineage thing just kept coming everywhere I went. It was like the seduction thing. And so um, I'm down in Florida. I'm like grieving my mom's passing. I'm living with my stepdad, who's wonderful and amazing, still a functioning alcoholic. My mom had died from liver failure from all the years of alcohol and whatever else, the um prescriptions and things they put her on. And and um, so we're in Florida. My siblings all go back to their homes, continue to live their lives, and basically, you know, just working, um, had my my jobs and everything, basically waiting tables. And and so then it was my stepdad's birthday in September, and I went to Sarasota with my dad. We were like going to a bar to party together with some friends, and um I ended up seeing this guy that was like a traveler dude sitting up by this bookstore, like against the wall. And at that point, I could like see auras. I was like really perceptive to people's energy and like just it was kind of a gift. It wasn't something I sought after, it was just something I had. And so, so he was like sitting up against the wall, and I saw this like glowing vibrant white aura around him. And so it really perked my interest. I was like, now I know it was the Holy Spirit. So it was like the first time I actually saw the Holy Spirit. And um, so me and my dad hang out or whatever, and then like two weeks later, I went down there, kind of hoping to run into him and I saw him again. And it turns out he was like this traveler, and he was living on the roof of one of the skyscrapers, which they're not that big, but one of the buildings in Sarasota. And um, and he was friends with the friend that I was going to watch her band. And so that was Tom.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:19

Oh, yeah. That was Tom with the white orange. Oh my gosh. I was not picking that up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:28

So yeah, so we end up hanging out at my friend's um band, you know, Fane and her uh not concert show, and hung out that whole night and basically had this crazy connection. And I mean, I felt like I was on drugs and I wasn't. Like that's both of us had that experience. We were totally like, we had had some alcohol, but like once that wore off, we were like ripped.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:00

We were vibing. Dude. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall seeing you guys connect for the first time.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:05

Well, and everyone, like wherever we went that night, people were after us. Like we were so sensitive in the spirit, and I didn't even know Jesus yet, but like people we went dancing and people were like trying to pull him away from me. Like there was this seduction thing trying to come in. And so our eyes were really open to this spiritual reality. Like the veil was lifted for us, where we were like watching people like stealthily come in and try to dance with me. And like the seduction was like trying to pull us away from each other.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:43

And so it was really, really intense. And also, like we were sitting in the car outside of a um Waffle House late night that same night. And the people in the Waffle House were like staring at us, like no lie. They're like sitting here staring while we're talking. And so there's just this like powerfulness between us being together that people were experiencing and seeing. And like we were just beaming, like we just felt this like the deepest heart connection we'd ever felt literally the moment that we met.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:20

And so, you know, one of his themes when we met was he was like, Well, I I want to be celibate. And he's like, um, you know, and I'm like, Well, I'm abstinent, so that's great. Like, I didn't have a spiritual backing, but I'm not trying to do all that, you know, like same, same. Were you obstinate at that time? I was trying to be abstinate. So yeah, so we just like we went to the beach and like it was just magic. It was really, really profound. So basically, we were um we he was homeless, you know. He was living on the top of the roof.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:02

Hoping it didn't rain.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:04

He he had lived on the streets for three years. He was fine with whatever came.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:09

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:10

Yeah. So he's got his own story to tell, but it was really intense. He had lived on the streets out in California and traveled the country, hitch hyped to Florida, where I then met him. And um, he had only been with the Lord for like three months, and he had experienced the Lord in California and came to Jesus in a very profound way. Um, a lot of like demonic activity and like literally being saved from some demonic stuff. And he was really, you know, had dove into, I would say, like this new like sacred texts and all these things. So when he landed in Sarasota, um, we met, spent that night together. Um, and then I went home or whatever it was, and we were able to stay celibate. And but he did move into my dad's home with me because he had nowhere to go. And um, so he just slept on the couch. And I I don't even think I had a room at that point. But my stepdad was like, because it was just after my mom had passed, so we were still in a one bedroom. And um, it was my mom's home, you know? And so we got a two-bedroom in the same apartment complex with my dad. So my stepdad was our roommate.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:29

How cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:30

So, and it was beautiful. It was like five minutes from the Gulf. Like we were like, it was really beautiful in Braden, uh Bradenton. Um so yeah, so that kind of like stopped my sexual habitual patterns.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:49

Because he was like, This is what I'm doing. Like, if you want to be with me, like this is where I'm going. And God had showed him that he was gonna meet his wife in Florida and that I think they were to be celibate, you know, to be celibate. And so like he felt very clear. He was like, if this is my wife, like she's gonna choose celibacy with me. And so it was definitely a dance, but we were um engaged at two months, and then we got married at nine months of being together.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:26

So I was 24. So um, yeah, so that was really cool. And we were able to get baptized together. We was gonna say so he pre he preached the gospel to you the seventh day I accepted the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:41

Aw.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:42

So, and I just dove right into my word. I was like, started reading James, and um he's the way he presented it was he said, Do you know that your mom, Karen, knew Jesus? And he I had never told him my mom's name. He knew my mom's name. Yeah, it was eerie.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:05

Did you know that your mom knew Jesus?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:07

So my mom, like, I would say, you know, again, kind of that like almost more cultural Christian, right? Where it's like, yes, but not surrendered, right? So, but the way it was presented, and my sister, like six months before, had presented the gospel again to me, but it was not a good situation at all. It was um after my mom passed away, and we really had a difficult relationship at that point in our journey, and a lot it was a mess. And um, anyways, so yeah, that was a horrible scene, and I was like, I don't want nothing to do with this. So then when Tom presented the gospel again, the third time that I clearly heard it, it was like, okay, yes, I want to do this now, especially if I can get this man.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:02

Yeah, this glow. Sounds a lot nicer coming from you.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:10

Well, I just like, you know, that was one of the main themes with my journey is just like always seeking a lover, like an un undivided, loving, unconditional lover. And so I found that in Jesus, right? My husband didn't end up being that person. That's a part of our journey. And um, so, but it was beautiful that it was presented that God knew how to bring the gospel to me where I would be a recipient.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:38

And um, and so, you know, that was the first way that God really showed me who he was was through lover.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:46

And um, and it was Jesus like the way that he died for us. And I felt very like in love with Jesus. So um I continue to see the Holy Spirit. And I've always kind of had that. I think that's important for people to note because some people have it and don't talk about it, or it's like maybe a little racy in conversation or whatnot. But like that aura that I always thought I could see, like I still see it. Like I'll see vibrancy. Um if I think about it, it's always there.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:24

Like it's just there. And I have to kind of notice it, you know, to like remember because I've been seeing it for 23 years.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:35

And is it could you share more about like what you see and perceive? Or there is there like a range of different colors? I remember when I was younger, I don't remember when in my life, but when I learned about auras and I was so fascinated by it, and I'd be like, what does this color mean? And what does that color mean? And I I've personally not ever seen an aura, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:56

Yeah, so it's kind of like a um almost like flex of white light that kind of like you can see like a vibration of the bright light.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:08

Um, and so like, you know, I think in nature you can see it more clearly when it's not disturbed, you know? Um, and so yeah, that's that's something I've never lost. And so I I just think that's really cool. Because Tom and I had that connection at the beginning too. It was actually we were moving, I think, into our new apartment, and we were like laying there on the ground or something, like in our early 20s, like blissed out on Jesus, totally in love. And like we both were seeing it all over, and we're like, Oh wow, do you see that? And we like anointed our house with oil when we moved in, like we put crosses all across the entire house in oil, yeah, on the door posts. Like we just claimed the space for Jesus, and um, so it was cool. And we would even like burn incense to God and like bring in so like we I use smudge sticks and stuff, so it was like I was using some of those things, but doing it for Jesus, and like and I would say, like, these are our prayers before your altar, you know, because that's in Revelations, like that our prayers go up like incense before the throne. And so God like allowed me to continue to like do some of those things that um brought me life and reassurance that I was safe and that it was his space. And so, yeah, so that was our early on. We got baptized together, um, like within maybe the first year of being um well, it would have been it would have been in the like first nine months because then at nine months we left Florida. And so the way that we ended up leaving was I was waiting on this um woman at the restaurant. My dad had met um a new gal. She he had seen her for years, and um, they ended up marrying. And so it felt safe to like be released. My dad was cared for, and and so I was waiting tables and I was talking to this gal, and um told her like that me and Tom were considering moving, um, and God had put Asheville on our hearts. And and then we were also considering Ireland. So we were like, we were really ready to go. And um, so she was like, you know, whatever. She ends up coming into the church that we had been baptized at. And um, actually, it wasn't her, it was her friend, and just found me, like at this church I told her I went to. So she just finds me. She has this girl bring me a post-it note, and it says the rock in Asheville. And so I'm like, okay, so then you know, I go home and I'm wanting to research on my computer. Like, we don't have phones, we don't have a PC. And we're like, I'm looking at the computer, and I just hear the spirit like, don't look at anything, like, don't look for a place to live. Go to this church in Asheville. And so I was like, and every time I would go to get on the computer, it's like the Lord's like, no, don't do that. And so we get in our VW and we're like going to a wedding of a friend's of Tom's original spiritual family out in California. So we take our time, like three weeks plus going to California. We're going to this wedding. We're gonna, you know, make love for our wedding. We're gonna come together, but we're not gonna have anything on paper. And so we're like, as we drive to this wedding, we'll be married. And God's like, no, like, don't, he didn't want us to do it that way. So we landed in California, go to this wedding, and then we tell our friend Eva, like, that we want to actually have a ceremony. And so we end up having this like last minute, like three weeks before wedding on the beach. And so we have this celebration. It's like basically his friends of his first spiritual family, some random couple we invited from a church we went to that morning. And then the then it was funny because my best friend since fifth grade, she she I was friends with her since I was nine. Her sister lived in California. I just call her and I'm like, Can you come to my wedding? And she's like, Yeah. So she just comes. It was literally like a few days or a week or something before. I'm like, Will you come to my wedding? So she was at my wedding and have known her since I was nine. So, anyway, so we're on the beach and we literally get married, and I had dreads back then, full headed dreaddies. I was like 24. Tom was 23. We like sing worship songs to the Lord for our music for the ceremony, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:09

Wow, yeah, that's so sweet. And do you want to share? Do you feel called to share like a bit about your your journey of marriage and like the the years that you've been in your Christian walk?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:22

Yeah. So um, yeah, so we get done with our marriage, we travel across country. Um, our VW broke down at California, go figure. We ride this Honda a friend we bought from a friend to North Carolina and stop and see my sister, have restoration with her um, you know, being spiritual sisters now. So I got to see my sister. And um, anyways, and then um we land in Asheville and go to the rock, like the post-it notes said for the first time. Yeah. And so we land at the rock on a Sunday morning, and um, we get to talking just a few minutes in. The guy that greets us is our landlord. So he's literally like, I have a place for rent. Just on meeting you.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:20

He just lets you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:21

Yep. So he's like, I have a place for rent in Asheville in walking distance. And so we had gotten a weak hotel near there, and um, we had two cats with us, and I'm like using the payphone to call this guy, and we go and look at the place, and within um three days, the people moved out.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:43

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:43

They were supposed to move out in three weeks.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:45

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:46

So we literally just like left the hotel and moved into a studio in downtown. Wow. Asheville. And then as we're walking, we found the body, which was our first church that was like a hippie church in the city, um, where Mela is now, the Indian restaurant.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:04

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:05

So yeah. So we would go there. That's where we met all of our first friends in Asheville that we're still friends with.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:13

So, um, but yeah, I guess this part of the story could go on for a long time. But I think, you know, basically, um, we lived alone for two years. We felt called to start a community. So we lived in community for five years, um, everywhere from five of us to 18 of us in the city.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:33

And um living in the same house or yeah, in the same home.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:37

Yeah. And um I had woken up from a dream, and the Lord told me to call our landlord Dave that I'd met at the rock, and he was like, gave us favor and gave us this house. It he evicted the people for us to move in. So God kind of used me to birth this community. And so we lived in that for five years. And um, and then um at the end of it, the Lord then told me, like, you you're now to birth your own child. And so we moved out into the country um to have agape. Um, and so that was a really big deal with my abortions. Yeah. That was a huge deal for me that um I was gonna now be a mother. And so she was actually my fourth child. Um, and so um ended up having Malachi um two years later or so.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:38

So, Catherine, there's been a number of times in your story, especially since relating with Tom, that you've said the Lord told us to do this, or the Lord showed us that we were, you know, to go to the rock and you know, just to really lean on trust. And I'm so curious, how did you know that the Lord told you something? Like, how do you hear that or know that?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:04

Yeah, that's a great question. I think it leads with curiosity, right? Like when we were in Florida, we were reading the word daily. We were listening to worship music, we were in community with Christians, we were seeking out eldership and leadership in our lives. We were in union with one another in the spirit. So, like that was the holding tank for us in that time was that we were doing all the things that you would kind of do to set yourself up to be able to hear from God. And so then when that post-it note was given to us at a Bible study, it was like there was that curiosity. Is this from God? Like, and I think that's where it comes in to like be able to sift through through things that we're hearing is like, is this from God? I need to like weigh this. Like, does this go back to the word? Like, is this something he would do? Would he guide us in this direction? Like, would he teach us this? Would he like allow this? Like, is this within his character? Like that this is something he would do for us. And so it's like, is he a provider? Does he care about the details of my life? Like, does he want us to be missionaries to Asheville? You know, because that's really what it was. He was launching us into mission, but we didn't have framework for that because we weren't raised Christian.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:35

And because it was to the states, it wasn't like we're getting sent somewhere else. It's like, no, we were sent to Asheville. And so it was very like outside of the box. It was a very organic way for God to communicate with us. But I think us continuing to lean into curiosity without getting frozen in fear of like, I'm not sure. But like moving forward, like, this is what we're gonna do. God meet us on this path. This is what we're gonna do next. Like, show us. And like that whole drive to California and then to Asheville was very much a faith journey. I mean, one thing after the next, like us getting into like this crazy wreck in Tennessee on the way out, and like someone pulling over that just so happened to know the auto dude down the road and got us a chain to pull our VW out and went to a church the next morning, and they tied the amount of the part to get us the van fixed so we could continue our journey. Like, and we didn't have a cell phone, like we're traveling by map through the entire United States. Wow. And so it was like that all the way through.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:48

Man, if you gotta if you got a breakdown anywhere, let it be Tennessee.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:53

Yeah. Well, like, and we did, like, I think we may have even had triple A, but it was like it was like in the middle of the night and the pouring rain, like, and we didn't have a cell phone. So it's like, you know, God sent the right person at the right time. And then the tithe was exactly what we needed for the part to then get on the road. And so it was just like that, where it was like God was building our faith journey. Like, I wouldn't say like the amount of faith I have now I had then. No way. Like I've overcome so much and come through so much and seen his character so much that it's like, okay, no, he's gonna come through. This is his character. He cares about me. I'm his child and he cares. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:40

Wow. That is so cool. And and I know earlier when you were sharing about the abortions that you've experienced, you said, I'm gonna pin that. This is this is gonna come back later in my story. And so coming to Asheville, I in the almost year I think that I've known you, I've always known you as a mother. And so that's I'm sure been a big transformation for you. I'm assuming now that ever since you landed in Asheville, you've always been here. And so you must have become a mother in Asheville. Would you like to share more about that and then how that relates to the experiences that you had in the past? Has it been like a big redemption? Did it bring a lot up for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:42:23

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Like when I was considering um having a child, Tom and I, um, I got prayer by some sisters, and they had both just had children and they laid hands on my womb. And like within a month, I was pregnant. Like it was that kind of really beautiful um part of my story. And um, that doesn't happen with everyone. And um, so it was really a huge blessing. And so that was the time where like we were feeling called out of the community, and God's like, you helped mother this. Now you're going to mother your own child. And so, like, mothering has always been a part of my story, but for so long, I just stuffed it down. Yeah. And I wasn't able to be that person, um, partially because of age, but experience was definitely uh not in there either, you know. And then I ended up having Malachi after I had both of the children, I was called into ministry, as I mentioned, and ended up sharing my testimony on 106.9 through the pregnancy center. And um, and that was really, really cool. We raised like $60,000 um for ultrasounds, and it was on Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:41

So I sat with my toddlers on each side, like four and two or something, and my kids and listened to mommy's testimony on the radio of like a radio station we played every single day, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:55

And um, so that was they started to know a little bit about my journey at an early age, you know, in in, you know, in appropriate ways. And so, and then I went to the a retreat at Montreat and met um basically the facilitators of our ministry that we started a couple years after. And so the director was there and she um was shadowing, and so she was just kind of silent. But I ended up meeting her and we had a great connection. We built a ministry um and we were under the pregnancy center for a time, and then we pulled out from under the pregnancy center, but um, we did um post-abortion healing retreats, like weekends, but then also six to eight week-long studies. We also went to a number of different retreats that are post-abortion, like learning as students or learning to be facilitators of that retreat. Um, I was asked to um guest speak at an event in Lexington, North Carolina at one point. So definitely was like kind of all in for that ministry for probably, I think it was like six years.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:10

So um, yeah, and at the end of that, I ended up getting pregnant with Elisha. So that was like 2021. Got pregnant with my third child here. So, and we lost one in between Agape and Malachis. So I've actually had seven pregnancies. So I have four babies in heaven. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:32

Aw, and when you've been working in this post-abortion ministry, has it largely been women that are not of the faith and you're sharing the gospel with them and bringing them to the word?

SPEAKER_00 1:45:43

Like how um, so our study in particular was very Bible centric. Um, there's different studies. Um, the one that we used was Bible centric. Um, and then we would tap into other studies as well. So that was a part of our journey, was like we were kind of doing what the pregnancy center had allowance for, the study that they allowed. But then we started to build our own study. Cool. Um, and so that was a part of the journey was basically building our own retreat. So integrating like different modalities. Like I brought art in and music in and dance, and and so we all kind of brought pieces and interwove um them together to come up with like a really beautiful retreat. And we had eight facilitators, I think it was. So it was eight of us that were we would do many retreats together and brainstorm together, and and then like two of us would pair up for one retreat. Okay, cool. Um, or like, you know, all hands would be on deck at different depending on like the participants. We did end up offering to males, which was really amazing. And um, one of my groups had a male in it, and so I got to see um a husband and wife delivered from the shame of abortion, like right in front of me, like the gray on them just like lifted.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:09

And they had like so much more vibrancy and freedom.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:12

You could literally see their aura change because you have that gifting. Wow. Yeah. Wow, that's incredible. Oh my gosh. What a what a what a redemption story to like have walked through that and then be able to support others and you you deeply understand what they're going through because you've lived that yourself. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:32

Yeah. And in in, you know, in the biblical terms, I would say it's like discernment, right? Discerning of spirits. Um, so that's kind of the um the shift over, like once we surrender under the Lord. Like that's that's the gift, right? And and we can all have it, I believe. I don't think it's particular to people.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:52

So yeah, amen. Well, Catherine, I wonder if you just thinking of like that younger version of yourself, that little girl of Catherine, or the the earlier stages of yourself and all of these things that you've walked, and now sitting from the place where you are now, having this intimate relationship with Jesus and this long-standing studying of the Bible and his word. Are there is there anything that you'd want to say to that past version of yourself or any like wisdom that you'd want to pour into her or loving words, compassion, anything like that? Like if you could just sit in front of your younger self. Oh, I love that. Yeah. What is it that you would share with her? Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:35

Okay. I'm gonna try not to cry. It's okay if you do. Um I mean, I think the importance of scripture is what I naturally land back on. And I just kept coming up with the scripture that we started with, which was about the prodigal um son. And so the scripture is um I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I'm no longer worthy to be called your son or your daughter. Treat me as one of your hired servants. And he arose and came to his father, but while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion and ran and embraced him and kissed him. And the son said to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I'm no longer worthy to be called your son. But the father said to his servants, Bring quickly the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and shoes on his feet, and bring the fattened calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate. For this my son was dead and is alive again. He was lost and is found. And they began to celebrate. So I think just like that, wanting to experience all these things in life through people, through events, through drugs, through relationships, through travel. And it's right here with the Father. He literally says, We have a reason to celebrate. Come eat, celebrate, experience my life. And so, yeah, I think I would just tell her like you can have all of your experiences in God.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:29

So, yeah, just turn your direction. Yeah. Onto the one who loves you the most. Yes. Oh, that's so encouraging. And I'm sure that there's people listening that will really feel touched and feel heard and seen by what you've shared. And I I hope feel really inspired and encouraged to also turn their gaze to the one who loves them, who created them and loves them so much and is like ready to pour out his healing and blessings upon them. Oh, I love that. Yeah. I hope so. Yeah, I hope so too. Catherine, would you like to close us out in prayer? Sure. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:09

Lord, I'm just so thankful for this time together. Um, I'm so blessed by Forrest and her heart to give to the kingdom in this way. And we are just so thankful for the story that you've told within each of us. And I pray for anyone that is listening or anyone that needs to hear anything that was shared today, that you would allow them to go down the right rabbit hole, that they would come across this video, that they would glean from it, that they would feel seen and loved and valued and appreciated, not by us, but by you. God, that you would send people in their life, that would give them the right message of the gospel, and that it would land exactly where it needs to at exactly the right time, Lord, just as you've done in my life. We trust you and we know this is in your character, that you would want every person to be thriving in you, Lord. So we just land it all in your lap and we lay it before you and we say, Have your way, God. Thank you in Jesus' mighty name.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:18

Amen. Amen. Amen and hallelujah. Thank you, Catherine. Thank you. If Catherine's story resonated with you, just wait until you hear what comes next. In our next episode, you'll meet Catherine's husband, Tom, from studying multiple religions and pouring through sacred texts to experiencing homelessness and struggling with addiction, to then becoming a theologian and doing men's ministry work. His story is one of deep searching, hardship, and powerful transformation. And together, their marriage is a testimony in itself, not of perfection, but of perseverance, healing, and God's faithfulness through it all. You don't want to miss this next one. I'll see you there.