Wildly Intentional
Bold talks. Big breakthroughs. No apologies.
We're two business owners who are passionate about helping people to grow in business and in life, and we talk about all the things you need to hear when running your own business (or thinking of doing it).
Wildly Intentional
20. What We’d Do Differently If We Started Again in 2026
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If we could go back and start our businesses again today, what would we do differently?
In this episode of Wildly Intentional, Flick and Verity put themselves in the shoes of brand-new business owners and explore the lessons they've learned from years of building, evolving and growing their businesses.
From branding and marketing to networking, business structure and strategy, they reflect on the decisions that helped them move forward, the mistakes they wouldn't repeat, and the advice they'd give themselves if they were starting from scratch in 2026.
This isn't about regrets. It's about perspective.
Whether you're in your first year of business or your tenth, this conversation is packed with honest reflections, practical insights and reminders that there is no perfect path to success.
If you've ever wondered whether you're focusing on the right things, spending your time wisely or making life harder than it needs to be, this episode is for you.
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Welcome to Wildly Intentional, the podcast of business owners who refuse to play small.
SPEAKER_02This is where we'll have bold talks, honest conversations and dig into what it really takes to create big breakthroughs in business and in life.
SPEAKER_01We're Verity and Flick, we're two business owners who have built, broken, rebuilt and grown businesses in our own ways.
SPEAKER_02And we're here to share the lessons, the mindset shifts, and the unapologetic decisions that have really helped us to level up.
SPEAKER_01So if you're ambitious, you're gross focused, and you're ready to do business on your own terms, you're in exactly the right place. So let's get wildly intentional.
SPEAKER_02Hello. Hello and welcome. How are you doing? Oh, not too bad, not too bad. Surviving in this heat.
SPEAKER_01Yes, a warm one, no. I I make it a habit not to complain about the heat even though I'm not dying. Because it's just no, it's just, I just happy, I'm happy when the sun's out.
SPEAKER_02I feel like I do love the sunshine. Yeah. And I'm normally, you know, people who've ever followed me on LinkedIn for a number of years, they'll know the fact that, you know, come the sunshine. I am working outside in the garden. I am not sat in my desk. Unfortunately, I did notice when we uh recorded the episode the other week when uh my internet had gone down. Yeah, um, my sound quality when I'm outside isn't great, so I had to come on for recording them. Um and I I'll be honest, I did complain about the heat while I was working in the pub because there is no airflow in the pub that I work at. It was like I think it was about 42 degrees on Tuesday when I was in the on shift, like in the pub, and 48 in the kitchen. Um everybody was sat inside the pub because it was too hot outside. And I was like, please go outside so I can get some fresh air because I am melting. I'm literally like wearing clothes that I bought for my holiday to Morocco to work. Yes.
SPEAKER_01It's it's a funny old thing, the heat, because when I was younger, I used to say, like, I was I should have been born abroad. Absolutely. I was such a sun worshipper. I could be outside all day in the heat. But the older I've got, the harder I find it. When we went abroad last year, it was like I found it really difficult to sit in it. I had to go into the air-conditioned room. I found it really difficult to sit for long periods of time out in that heat. And I hate about that because I've always wanted to live abroad, and I'm not sure now I'd actually cope with it. I've obviously just like climatized myself to Wales. It's taken 46 years, 47 years. How old am I? 47? 47? I had this problem last year. I actually aged myself by a year for a whole year. I think I'm 47. I think I was telling people I was 47 for the entire time I was 46. And then it got to 47, and now I'm going backwards again. I'm like, no, I'm only 46. Anyway, irrelevant.
SPEAKER_02So the entire time that you've been 46, you've been claiming you were 47, and now you're 47, you're claiming you're 46. So it balances out.
SPEAKER_01It does balance out, yeah, it does. I think I'm 47. Um, you can laugh, but in 10 years' time, you are going to be having the same conversation with yourself.
SPEAKER_02My age is the last two digits of the year plus 10. So I'm 36 at the moment because it's 2026.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay. Oh yeah, I never looked at it like that. What? Say that again. You're your age is the last two digits of the year plus ten.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so it's 2026. So if you take the 26, plus 10, that means I'm 36.
SPEAKER_01Okay, well that just depresses me, because now I've realized that I'm plus 20, plus well, plus 21. Back off now, Flynn. It's not a good way to start this podcast. Now I've worked out how much older than you I am. Yeah, that it is, is important for today's episode of what we're gonna talk about. It is. It is, yes, it's relevant. Not the heat, that's not relevant. Um, we are gonna talk today about what we would do differently if we started our businesses again in 2026. I'm not sure where we're gonna go with this, it's gonna be quite an interesting episode. This is gonna highlight all our mistakes. But hey-ho, we say keep it real.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but we want people to learn from our mistakes because and understand the fact that you know they are not the only ones making mistakes. We have made mistakes, we have made some oh gosh, when I think of some of the the things that I did when I first started the business, I'm like, oh why did I do that? Why did I think that was a good idea at the time? Um, yeah, and and how it's it's shaken and I've grown, and yeah.
SPEAKER_01I'm I'm having trouble, right? Keeping my brain on track because all I keep thinking about is you saying to me before we started recording, tell me your ADHD without telling me your ADHD. And all I can think about now is our 10-man tent that I'm gonna go and buy. This topic is totally irrelevant to me because all I can think about is camping in the summer that I know in reality I'm gonna hate, but it's a thought. I've decided I'm gonna become a camper, so I'm gonna go out and buy a 10-man tent for a family of five, and I'm gonna go camping, and I'm gonna buy all the equipment and I'm gonna have loads of fun.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, you are sorry, camping is great, and and you know, those people who are listening who know me very well know the fact that I'm a very proud scouter. I love my scouting, and I love camping. I'm I'm absolutely gutted that unfortunately we have had to cancel our summer camp this year with scouts. Um they are going on another camp, but I won't be going camping with them because like there were circumstances which are far too long to go on in this podcast. So we were planning a nice little weekend camp next month. Um, and unfortunately, it's no longer going ahead because I didn't have the leadership availability. And I'm like, I don't get to go camping.
SPEAKER_01Just bring your trailer tent and come camping with me. I haven't done it for 25 years, but I know I'm gonna love it. See Rob and I've always in my head.
SPEAKER_02Rob and I go camping quite regularly, and we've got, I think we've got like four tents now between the two of us, plus the trailer tent. We can only camp in one tent at a time. Maybe two if we were going to two different camps, but anyway, we've got we we're gonna start talking about camping now, aren't we?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we are. Let's go back to topic. Sorry, it's just that my head hasn't quite come out with that conversation yet, and I'm still thinking about my shiny new tent that I'm gonna go and buy for something that I'm gonna hate and I'm gonna sell it six weeks later.
SPEAKER_02I really want to get one of your girls to just video you putting it out for the first time.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I'm totally gonna document it. I think it's gonna be hilarious.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna put it on the the reels that we create for the podcast. I say we create, we create for the podcast. Like it's all me, folks.
SPEAKER_01You never share it, Fic. We can share the praise for it. You know, we don't need to tell everybody that it's you that does everything. I just rock up and talk every week, you know. We can share it. Um, yeah, I I think I'll be all right, actually. I do think I'll be all right. I think my daughters, they're little princesses, so they're gonna have trouble with it. Um but you know, it's about broadening their horizons, isn't it? It's just not everything is four and five star. They need to get out in the wild, in the wilderness. Let's go see some bears or something.
SPEAKER_02You see bears when you're camping.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, what if I come across a snake that I'm done? No, that thought has now entered my head. Camping is no longer happening.
SPEAKER_02Tell me your ADHD without telling me your ADHD.
SPEAKER_01It's not, I can't do it. What if there's a snake? Oh, oh no, no, no, we can't do it. Have you come across a lot of snakes? No. Really?
SPEAKER_02No, genuinely. No, I I don't think I've ever seen a snake while I've been camping.
SPEAKER_01They can't get into the tent anyway, can they? Now my brain has gone to the Yellowstone episode where she was in her tent and there was a snake on top of her. Yeah. So now that's obviously gonna happen.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no. I've seen that I've seen that clip on TikTok and is it Tina has got and she's literally like really fearful people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, okay. Okay, calm. Let's come back into the room. Regulate the nervous system. Let's talk about what we'll do differently. You might want to put a trigger warning on this about snakes, people might be triggered by that. See, I I I love snakes.
SPEAKER_02Like they're not.
SPEAKER_01No, no, I can't even talk about them. I'm triggered by snakes. I can't, I can't. Do you know and those those tiny versions that begin with W and end up with end with S and they've got an U in the middle, can't cope with them. They are just like that's why I can't garden. Because if I come across one of those, I instantly throw up. Do you know what I'm talking about? I can't even say the word. Every evening. And do you know why? Do you know why? Do you know why I can't cope? They physically make me sick. It's literally an instant reaction where I throw up when I see one because I do not understand how something can be cut in half and regrow. That is so unnatural, it's unreal. No, my daughter brought me one once. She nearly got buried with it. It was like, get out now.
SPEAKER_02This is with the same daughter that you're worried about going camping with you. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Anyway. Do you want do you want to kick us off with what we're actually talking about? Because this has just been like the best part of 10 minutes of nonsense.
SPEAKER_01I told you we could make it last.
SPEAKER_02We literally started today going like, oh, can we talk about this topic? Can we talk about that topic? Or would would, you know, can we talk for half an hour on this? No, apparently we can talk about, you know, we can talk for 10 minutes on randomness. So you know, we can.
SPEAKER_01Okay, let's talk about what we do differently. Well, I'm going to come at it from a different perspective as you, because you're still very much in the thick of it. So you can make decisions based on what you can kind of recognise things that you did at the beginning that you wouldn't do now. I've got a whole new perspective where I'm seeing how a different business is run that was very similar to mine, but on a mega level, and how I could have done it differently if I'd worked like them. So it's like my insight on it is just completely different. I get quite frustrated now, thinking, if only I'd just done this. You know, and I'm like working for a corporate company now. Corporate, corporate company. They're not that corporate, they're actually quite fun. Um so yeah, it's a very different perspective now because not only am I out of it, so my head is cleared and I can really see what I did wrong, but also I'm seeing how to do it right as well. Yeah, yeah. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, and I've I'm literally going through a shift at the moment where I'm, you know, I think I've said before on podcasts about that, I've really evaluated over the last six, nine months of my business and really looked at okay, what am I doing? Why am I doing that? Is it serving me? If it's not, why am I spending my energy in doing that? How can I change it? How can I amend it? And actually, it was really positive in the fact that I went to an event um a couple of weekends ago and um was there with somebody um while we were having lunch, and she turned around to me, she was like, I have absolutely loved watching you over the past six to nine months, and you have just completely shifted into you know a better business owner, into like you are absolutely flying at the moment. Yeah, and I was like, Oh, it's it's always that kind of like, oh, I thought, you know, I I've sensed the difference, but actually to see it from somebody else's perspective who I haven't said I'm going through this shift, and to have them turn around and say, Oh, yeah, no, I can see this, and you are just completely killing it at the moment, um, in a good way.
SPEAKER_01Um I think that's relevant as well, but to one of the things that I would say would have been the biggest thing for me is that, and I used to kind of in the when I went into Blue Giraffe, my um whole thing was around when I first started Blue Giraffe, it was about the trauma-informer stuff came into it, but it was around branding, and and we've talked about it before about how understanding who your business is, not what your business is, and really go deep into it. And I kind of did it from a trauma-informed perspective because when you're on your own in business, it is personal to you. There is you can't be this corporate business leader when you're starting out on your own. That comes much later. When you first start out, it's very much you, it's your business, you're the brand. It's personal to you. And I wish now I'd look back. And I mean, when Alison and I started the business initially, we didn't have a clue what we were doing. We literally had a banner, we rocked up to our first networking event, and I cannot tell you how much stuff was on this banner. And people would say, What do you do? And we'd be like, Um, just have a look at the banner. And it's like, any of that we can do. There's no more book of this. I mean, we started out as a training company, that's what we went and got accredited. We were able to give accredited training, and we just that kind of went off because somebody asked us to do their social media because I had a background in marketing, and then that just took off. And then we did some mental health stuff, but then realized that it was too early for the mental health stuff, people weren't really ready for that yet. So we went back to the social media and it was just chaos for the first couple of years, it was absolute chaos. And then Blue Giraffe came along, and obviously I'd learnt the lessons from IMC. So I did it very differently in Blue Giraffe. And the first thing I did was really understand who I wanted to be. And I'm not saying that doesn't change. Like we've talked about it before, how when your brand needs to change, when you elevate, when you start to shift, you just said that you've been through that, you can redo this over and over again. But I wish I'd taken the time very early on to really go deep into what my business is, who it is, how it feels, how I want it to feel to other people, who I want to work with, really understanding, even though we talked about target audience all the time, really understanding that target audience. Going back to the conversation we had last week on our episode when we got quite passionate about that culture and you know that that topic that we talked about, values. It's like we're not afraid now to go out with those values because we understand that we only want to work with people who share those values. So I think for me, the biggest thing and the biggest shift for me was doing that work. And I produced a whole framework on it in Blue Giraffe. I produced a massive book on how to do this. Um, I might still sell it if anybody's interested. But you know, this book is brilliant because it takes you through that trauma-informed approach. So you really understand your nervous system, how you're gonna work, when those days come when you're gonna go into freeze, when you're gonna procrastinate, what's stopping you, what is the barrier? And it's understanding all of those things first is the pinnacle, I think, because that's what holds your passion.
SPEAKER_02I think for for me, when I first started, um, because I was so new and so nervous, because like I, you know, I said I've said multiple times on on this podcast, I had so many business ideas when I was, you know, in my twenties and my teens. Um, this was the first time that I'd actually, you know, taken that plunge and actually gone out and um started a business.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I was, you know, um we we we talk about this this mode that you go through every time, but I hadn't realized actually in hindsight, I was in excited puppy mode and I was doing everything. I was going to all these networking things I was doing. And the thing that was missing out of my business was that strategy, was that strategic plan of who I was, what I was doing, and who I was targeting. Um, so you know, I did go out to networking and I'd do my my 60-second pitch and I get lots of one-to-ones, but then you know, I wouldn't really do anything with them because it was just, I just want to meet people and I just want to, you know, grow my network. And it was like, well, actually, if I'd have gone out straight away with that strategic of this is who I want to meet, this is who my target market is, this is the pain points that they are, you know, this is the strategy that I am following. And and also funnels. I mean, I hated the term when I was doing all of my digital marketing qualifications, but actually understanding it's not funnels, it is a customer journey to actually understand where your customer is and the journey you're gonna take them on. But you have to be there to take them on it. Yeah, you can't just walk off and expect them to follow you. So I think strategy for me is that big shift, yeah, you know. So now everything I do, it's like if somebody says, Well, why are you doing that? I'm like, because it's part of my plan. It's intentional, it's intention.
SPEAKER_01I have that. Yeah, and that's one of the biggest things that I've kind of learned coming out of having my own business. And it's this really kind of um clearly I am meant to work for myself because on the last podcast, when we shut it off, I did say to you, I'm getting itchy feet, not itchy feet that I want to leave my job, I love my job, but itchy feet that I kind of want something for myself as well. So it's kind of that mindset's never gonna leave. I think I'm gonna have to do something. But one of the things that I've learned, and it was fear, and this goes back to the trauma-informed stuff and the nervous system stuff, the strategy bit in you know, we used to do social media strategies for our clients all the time.
SPEAKER_02Hang on about people having social media strategies and marketing strategies, and then I looked at myself and went, flick, yeah, you're back to that.
SPEAKER_01That business strategy is very different. You know, you should have, and ironically, and Alison laughs at me. I'm at Alison's house right now, and she's she just laughs at how the shift that's come for me because you know that I was dead against anything corporate and I didn't want to be in corporate environments. I didn't, we had a massive corporate client at you know, at one stage, and I hated it. I backed out halfway through and told Alison she had to continue because I hated being in that environment. And what I've learned, and a lot of this came before my job, it came through the trauma-informed stuff where I started to feel comfortable in those rooms, is because it all comes down to imposter syndrome and the faith you've got in yourself and how you feel your confidence and things. But all the strategies and all the official things that we had to do, I always threw on Allison every single time. And even when I did Blue Giraffe, I didn't do this. Then I've walked into a kind of a more corporate environment, and I've written three strategies in the last six weeks, and they're really good strategies, like they bang on corporate strategies. And I am looking at them going, one, I was capable of doing it, why did I never do this for me? I had the ability, it was never about ability, it was always about my own self-confidence. Yeah, and two, why did I never do this for my business? Because actually, when I'm writing those strategies, and this is key, this is really key. If you're thinking about writing a strategy, which you should be if you haven't done it, you need to think about this. It is not just good enough having that overarching strategy. You have to have the plan to put that strategy into action. And I'm looking at this plan because my strategies are pages and pages and pages long, because there's the strategy, then there's how we're going to do it. This is what we're going to do. This is step one. And there's a 12-month roadmap for it. That's what I've been working on. But there is a clear agenda as to how this is going to happen. And that is what separates you from being, and you know, this goes back to what we talked about before about being hobby businesses. And when you start out in business, it's very easy to be in that mindset. You're not taking yourself seriously. You have to start out thinking like a multi-million pound business owner.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You've got to think, what are they doing in their business that I need to do? The strategy is the first step. You need to under its intention, understanding what you're doing and why you're doing it and how you're going to do it. What, when, how. That is what, why, how. That is the ultimate that you know, it's the initial thing you should have in a business.
SPEAKER_02It's so easy to to skip. I mean, when I first started, and I I was like, okay, so you know, you were telling me that that think of, you know, think of like the the MDs and the the big CEOs and stuff like that, and what are they doing? And I started to put out the marketing, and now I look back and I refuse to delete it off my my socials page. So, you know, by all means, go back and go back and have a look at like some of the things that I was doing. And I was like, it just I look back at it and go, that just wasn't me, because I was trying to do like these really corporate feel posts, and I was like, and they just and I really struggled actually to do my own marketing because I was putting on a mask. I was it was perf it was performative marketing. It never worked for me. And the minute I dropped that mask and just started going, do you know what? I do archery. I love I love doing you know, Lord of the Rings, I love you know, doing my axe throwing and and you know, going out and camping with scouts. I know I've just said the word, so please try and stay on track very stuff.
SPEAKER_01And now I'm gone now. I'm like I'm in strategy mode.
SPEAKER_02But actually putting those out was a strategic decision um that allowed me to drop that mask that allowed me to just be myself. And we talked about that on the as well on the podcast. And it was just everything I do now is such a strategic move, an intentional move. So when somebody says, like, you know, oh you're going to such and such a networking event, I'm like, right, give me the details. When is it? How is it? You know, when I when I meet people, um, you know, I instantly scan their their business card into my CRM database, um, because I've gone really techy as well with that, but then instantly follow up with them afterwards to book in a one to one to then, you know, and I've I've cut down my one to one times as well. I used to allow them to like run to like an hour and a half. I, you know, now if it's getting to 45 minutes, I'm very much like, right, what is the what have we got from this? What do we need to, what's the next Next steps, and it's like I'm not being abrupt, I'm just being strategic and intentional with my time because we know what my diary's like, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, but then it's like right okay, come out of that one-to-one. I make the notes or I use AI to have captured like the main bullet points of that meeting to say, okay, the next steps are these, I set a time frame for the next thing. And I'm like, if I'd have been doing that since day one of my business, like, oh my god, where would I be right now?
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And I want to caveat something you said actually, because it is key, the point you made when you said about realizing that when you started putting out corporate feeling kind of posts and things, and you realised it wasn't you. When we're talking about thinking like a corporate company, thinking like a managing director, thinking like a strategic leader, that doesn't mean you become corporate, you stay who you are, but you run your business as a strategic business. That would be a good thing. There is purpose and intention, yes. You can still, part of your strategy is very much be you, be yourself, present as you want to present, but it's it's running the business as a strategic entity, stop seeing, and part of it is, and we're just kind of um it's contradicted a little bit about it being personal, but you have to stop, you have to get to the stage where your business is no longer personal and it is a strategic business. You are a person within that business, but you are running it as an entity, an enterprise. It is, you know, it's and think of it as huge. And you know, something else you said about the CRM system that's really important because when we first start out, we're terrified of spending money. And we started at AMC with no money. We had 20 quid in the bank, there was no money at all. You know, thankfully, we didn't end it that way, but we had no money to start with. And Alison and I, she won't mind me saying, used to battle all the time about spending money, and because I was always obviously the forward thinker, and Alison was very much in the moment, let's get through this month. And we used to be a constant battle with this, but I was still stand by invest in yourself and invest in your business. You know, don't go take in that salary on the first month, invest that money back. You have to build something to be able to take something. You've got to, it will take time. We've said it before, building a business is not an overnight sensation, it takes time and having those CRM systems.
SPEAKER_02And I think as well, you know, you're saying about building something, building that business so it doesn't need you in it. That is that is something that I really wish. So I, you know, I a lot of people know the fact that I offer training courses and I'm still very much in that live session. I'm there, I'm delivering the training courses, I'm you know, running the coaching programs, whatever it is. And now I'm having to take that step back to kind of go, right, okay, I need to do some of them that are recorded that are slightly different because not all of the courses work in a live situation. But actually, if I can take that step back, and you know, if I started my business again, you know, next month or so, um, I would definitely be taking that time to not only work on my strategy, but actually to think, what can I offer to my target market, to my clients, that doesn't require my hours? Because, you know, time is an inf it is a finite resource that we have as a business owner. So what can you capitalize on? What can you think of? Um, which is why so tail end of last year I came out with my social media starter pack, which was like, you know, everything that you needed to get your business started, all the documents that I use for my business, so the blank strategy documents, content planning documents, but I sold it as like this little bundle with some nice videos to sort of say this is how you use all of these documents, because that then sits on my website and it's uh you know it's available from you know wherever somebody wants to download that, you know, as a as a as a package, those sorts of things.
SPEAKER_01That's really funny. As we're talking about this, my next business is coming into my head.
SPEAKER_00I'm like, I already know what it is, and I know I'm gonna run it.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, but you're right, it is, you know, it you have to be looking to one. I did get that right in Blue Giraffe. I started Blue Giraffe knowing the mistakes we'd made previously, and I knew that I wanted to set this business up so it didn't need me in it. But that does involve time, it involves investment, it involves the right systems, those funnels. The technology helped me back massively because, and I say that I'm a technophobe, I know, I I do, but do you know what somebody actually said to me, you're not a technophobe, you're just afraid to do it. And they're right, I am just afraid to do it. And the things I've had to overcome in the last six months in this job have been things that I never thought I would overcome. And I've just kind of sat there and thought, I can't go to anybody.
SPEAKER_02You are genuinely a technophobe, because it's a technophobic.
SPEAKER_01It is a techno, yeah, it is a phobe, yeah, it is. It's I'm not incompetent. I'm not tech, you know, it's not illiterate. No, I'm not tech illiterate. I can do things, but that would hold me back. And part of that, of course, was self-confidence and ADHD and everything. And even if I went back now and I did start this business, there are still parts of me.
SPEAKER_00No, I'm trying to cough quietly. I don't know why I'm not just putting myself on the bottom. Right, no, that's coming out as a belch. I did like a belch. Brilliant. Did she just belch on this podcast?
SPEAKER_02I was trying to cough. I should have just put myself on the phone. I think I've just taken some water down the wrong way. So there you go.
SPEAKER_01But anyway, yeah. I mean, tech helped me back. I was afraid of it massively. And you know, I do pass things on to you. I do, but we both know really, if you did say to me that I've got to learn how to do it, that I would learn how to do it and we would get it done. I I'm open to that idea. You're just saying, don't meet me.
SPEAKER_02Um, but you know, it's a record now. I've got it.
SPEAKER_01I know, I know. But it did hold me back. Things like those funnels, things like the CRM systems, the market. Oh my god, the email campaigns that used to drive me mad. It's like I didn't know how to set up a next step and the next step after that. And it would just, but you know what? The one thing I discovered very kind of early on into Blue Giraffe, and yes, it does cost money, but oh my word, it's money you should spend, just freaking outsource it. Get rid of it to somebody who loves doing it. They will do it in a quarter of the time. It will cost you so much less in the long run. So just if you need those funnels, then go and get somebody else to do it. If you need those marketing campaigns, get a VA to do it, they specialize in it, they're not that expensive, they are absolute gems. Yeah, yeah. You know, and things like your finances. I used to look at my finances on the like 30th of January. Why aren't you looking at your finances every single month? Where is your financial spreadsheet? Where are you looking at your profit and loss? All of these things you don't do as a small business owner, and you've got to get into the mindset, did you? And no, I never did. Alison, what I've done.
SPEAKER_02But then I have a background in finance. Like my background was finance, wasn't it? You know, I've done debt management, I've done wealth management.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, so that's that that was something that I came back to when it was like, right, okay, if I'm if I'm building a business, I need to know that actually I've got a financially viable business. So I would spend I would literally spend, you know, a few hours every week looking at that income outgoings, you know, where am I, you know, profit loss, the cash flow, that kind of side of things. Um, you know, because when I was at you know, university, I would summer um work would be actually working for a financial director of a multi national company. Um basically working as her PA um for a few months. Um, so actually got to see some of that kind of side of things. And I was like, oh my god, it's really important in business to look at your finances.
SPEAKER_01Um it is, and but people miss it massively, they don't do it because finances scare them. So they but you have to know every single penny that's coming into your business and every penny that's going out and every penny is profit. You have to get your head around go gross and net, you have to understand it all. There are training courses you can go on to get yourselves on them. There are even, I mean, in Wales, we've got Business Wales, which puts you on free courses as a business owner. There are they are everywhere. Go and educate yourself on finances. That is probably the most important thing you can do in business, and it's the thing that we don't do the most when we're small business owners. We don't worry about the finances, we just see it coming into having the number of businesses we used to deal with where their personal bank was mixed with their their business bank. They didn't have a business bank account. Get a business bank account. You cannot run a business without a business bank account. I don't care if you're gonna pay for it, get a business bank account. It is not your money, it is not your personal money until you start to take a salary.
SPEAKER_02It's not I think, yeah, I I did that for the first couple of months as well. I I tried to run it from a personal account and it just got messy. I think that's why I was looking at it every week because it was like I needed to work out what what expenditure was business expense, what expenditure was like, you know, a personal expense. Yeah, you know, and heaven forbid I had to put fuel in the car because I'd gone to a networking event. I was like, oh, there's an argument for both here because I've not just used it to get to that networking event, I've used it to drive to a friend's house or you know, go to the Flip and Nazda shop or whatever it was. Um, so yeah, it was then like, right, okay, I need a business bank account. That was that would be another thing that I would do differently again if I started, you know. Now I have the business bank account and it's like it just makes things so much easier. Um but yeah, and I think we we've talked as well, you know, before about the you know saying no to a client when they're not just.
SPEAKER_01You've got to the fear has got to stop around that. It's the worst thing you can do. It is so detrimental to you and your business if you say yes to something that one, if you say yes to it when you're not a hundred percent capable of doing it, if you think you can just give it a go, you are gonna damage your reputation. And two, if you're working with people that don't align with you, that is going to damage your mental health. It is not worth it. You did not go into business to damage your mental health, you went into business to improve it, to give yourself that better life.
SPEAKER_02Don't put yourself in a situation where you are just as well for like you know, saying yes to things that you're not 100% proficient in as a business owner. I mean, you know, digital marketing. Like I I quite openly say the fact that you know I have qualifications in digital marketing, which does cover website building, email marketing, paid ad campaigns. Do I specialise those in my business? No, I don't enjoy them. I can I get to say no to that. Um, but also that means the fact that there's an opportunity for collaboration with so many people who do the opposite. I know I've got people in my network who only build websites, they will not touch social media with a barge poll or email marketing. And I'm like, so you can I get to connect with them and then build something really bespoke and specific for a client that's you know gonna be the best of everybody's skill set.
SPEAKER_01100%. And off the back of that is a different topic, really. But the other thing that I would do very differently, one well, these are two things really, but they're kind of well, they're not one or the same, they are two separate things. One of the biggest mistakes, and I say this is the biggest mistake because Alice and I still can't talk about it. It literally traumatized us was buying into something we didn't need in the early days. Now we got massively ripped off. There was somebody in our networking group, and it was a really it was the first networking um group that we went to as a membership, it was kind of high profile. Everybody in it, you really built that trust with. And I remember the conversation, and I've watched him do it so many times. He came over and he said, You know what? I think I've got so many contacts for you. Come to my office and we'll have a conversation. And he brought us, we were very new, naive, we'd only been in business a few weeks, went to his office, walked out with the biggest industrial printer you could ever think of. Because he had absolutely convinced us that he was going to save us an absolute fortune because at the time we were doing a lot of books, we were doing brochures, we were doing flyers. It's like you're gonna do it all on this printer. Do you know what? It took us seven years to pay that printer off, and we didn't need it for six of them. It was extortionate, it was the biggest rip-off, and he conned us massively. Do not go spending on things that you are not a hundred percent sure you need in your business. Do not let people sweet talk you, don't get blindsided by people who tell you they're really experienced in business. You will have a gut feeling, you will know it's not for you. Say no.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I've I've had similar things where it's like, you know, you've been put promised the moon on a string.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, it's you know, the offers sounded really, really good. And now actually I've I've gone almost the other way in terms of so I was I was given an opportunity a few weeks ago, and you know, it was on the table and it was a it was I wouldn't say it was high pressure, but you know, the person that was offering it, I I really respected, I really liked. Um, I and I still do. Sorry, I realised that. Oh, I just apologise as well. I didn't realize the fact that I said that in past tense, like I no longer like the person, and I do very much say, and have great respect for them. Um they were making me an offer and they said, you know, look, just just let me know. Um it was really casual, but we were in a public set, well, I say public, we were in semi-public setting. There were four people watching to wait for my response. So I got the pressure of an audience watching me to say whether I was going to say yes or no to opting into something. Bearing in mind, those those four people um that were watching me, they had all bought in and they'd all said yes. So if I'd said no, I'd have been the only one that said no. And I sat with it for ages. And like the person who's making the offer, they were like, Come on, Flick, come on, Flick, what what's what's what's in your head and what's holding you back? And what I was genuinely looking at was going, okay, this offer sounds fantastic. Is it right for me? Am I saying yes because there are four people staring at me and watching me? Am I saying yes because the person making the offer keeps coming back to it as the conversation drifts? They keep coming back, going, so what's your answer flick? Like I'm I'm still waiting for your answer. Yeah, am I feeling that pressure? Am I feeling obligated and obliged to say yes because of the respect that I have for the person making the offer? Or, and I'm gonna come back to that word again, is this a strategic move for my business to say yes? Yeah, and it was like I'm I'm really struggling to understand that. And I was like, right, how am I gonna feel if I say no? Am I gonna feel that I have seriously looked at, missed out on an opportunity that was gonna help my business to grow? And the minute I said yes to that question, I was like, right, I'm in. Because actually, it's not just fear of missing out, it was genuinely how am I gonna use this to leverage my business? And when I realized I was gonna be using it and I have used it, um, 100% to leverage my business, I'm like, right, now I'm in. Because I'd taken that time to sit and analyze because I've been burnt, like, I mean, you know, yeah, how I've been burnt before with things like that, saying yes to things that didn't serve me. And it's it has to come back to that strategic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, you do get a bit of trauma from it. Don't make those rash decisions, ask yourself those questions. I think you absolutely did it the right way. And the other thing is, and this really grates me, and this is something I'm going through at the minute. Well, I'm not going through it because I've almost given up, but when people don't pay you.
SPEAKER_02I was about to say, so um, sorry, I was like having a sip of water and I nearly choked on it again. Um I think I've just apologised in that little rant as well. Oh my god. Um, I was in my nail tech today, and we were talking about actually um an employer who's paid an employee the wrong salary um for a couple of months, um, paid them above what was in their contract, then realized actually the employee um was only 17 and they've been paying them an over 18's wage, and now they've demanded all of the money back from that person. And it's like, well, you've got a contractual amount that says you're going to pay them nets. And it's like, so not being paid or being asked to pay something back, like that is having clauses in your contract that protect you when you've got that situation.
SPEAKER_01I had a situation, I mean, there were many times in both of my businesses where clients didn't pay. Um, and the problem was we built such great relationships with our clients that it was very difficult to then ask them for the money or to keep chasing or have those awkward conversations. We hated it. So we would let it go on and on and on. But actually, in the background, it was seriously damaging to our business because we were also a small business who were, you know, trying to feed our families every month. And when our clients didn't pay, that had a huge impact on us. So there is being nice and there's being strategic. And unfortunately, the two don't mix in business. You cannot take, you know, regardless of how good a relationship, and you do want a good relationship with your clients, but you also want to be respected by your clients as much as you respect them. And part of that is your deal is that you provide a service and they pay for it. Now, I had a situation recently, I'd say recently, it was last year, where I did work for a client and um they ended up racking up quite a significant bill, like probably a month's salary and what I'm on now. It was a significant bill. And I left it about five months where I was chasing and chasing, and then I went to her and I said, Look, I'll do a payment plan. Pay me 20 quid a month if you want to, but you cannot not pay me this money. I've done the work for you, I need it. And then it started coming out of the woodwork that she was doing the same to a lot of other people. I mean, when we actually added up how much she owed, we are talking of tens of thousands of pounds. She just wasn't paying anybody. And this girl gaslit me something wicked. She was, and you know, considering my history, you'd think I've spot a narcissist a mile off, but I absolutely am rubbish as spotting narcissists. They just come into my life and I let them every time. Um, you know, if anybody else wants to do it, I'm a sucker for it. Um, and she did, she gaslit me massively. It was like, you know, she suddenly became a really close friend, and and I did have my guard up around it. I did kind of see that side of it, and I was like, okay, you can think that if you like, but actually, we've got a business relationship. Um, but it got to the point where it was like I had to say no more and I had to take steps. So I went to small claims court and I did put a claim in against her, she ignored it. So I took out a CCJ on her and it felt awful because I was like, I'm actually going to damage this girl now. There is nothing you know I can do about it. But it's either she starts to pay, or you can't just keep getting away with this. And what's worse is this person. Um, I'm being very careful not to out her, and I'm very tempted to out her. She works with very vulnerable clients, so she's she is the worst of the worst in reality. Um, she manipulated things, she had government contracts, she then didn't pay for the work that was done under those contracts. Um, probably should be in prison if I'm honest. But even the CCJ has not made her do anything, and it's now at the point where debt collectors are involved, knocking a door, bailiffs, that kind of level. And the lesson there is it doesn't feel nice at all. It feels horrible.
SPEAKER_02What I would say with that is the fact that you did the research. So I had a client, you know, when I first started out and they paid for the like the first three months, like quite regularly. I sent them the invoice, they paid. The next three months, they skipped payments. And I was like messaging them and going, like, you know, is everything okay? Is everything, you know, are you there? Like, what's going on? Haven't heard from you? Because they weren't checking in with me when I was saying the fact that their content was ready or anything like that. They just they they were very, you know, they were very um, I don't want to say blase, but they were a very laid-back client and they were quite happy for for all the content. They knew me very well. Um, and then, you know, I picked up the phone to them and I shouldn't have left it, let it go for three months, but it was like, you know, their main form of communic communication, they'd always said they prefer email. And I was like, well, I've been emailing, emailing, emailing, chasing for this, this overdue payments. And then I picked up the phone to them and said, Look, can I, can I, you know, you're not answering my emails, you've not responded to me, you've not paid for the last three months. I'm gonna have to, you know, terminate the contract and and um sort of seek recompense for for my outstanding invoices. They were so apologetic. Apparently, a system error in their emails had triggered that all of my emails, they got a file where all my emails, once they dealt with them, they put them in there, and their automated system had automatically just filed everything that I was sending to them into that inbox. So it wasn't landing into their sort of primary inbox to see. They were so apologetic, they paid instantly. Like we continued the relationship, it was all grand. But that's the thing is about that you have to do your research and not just um I'm just advocating for anybody listening not to go, oh, I've not been paid, I'll go and get them a CTJ.
SPEAKER_01No, what you need to do, you need to, well, first of all, you need to have watertight contracts, 100%. And if I did it all again, because this is about if you did it differently, I would kind of, and this is about taking yourself away from the business as well. Your business is an entity on its own, it is not personal, it is not you. I would have a watertight contract, I would give two weeks' leeway, I would put a late payment charge in place, I would explain, I'm really sorry, I have to do this because I do it for everybody. This is my terms and conditions. You agree to it, and then I would take legal steps if I needed to, and I will never hesitate to do that again because I won't you can give options, I mean the One thing we always did, me and Alison, was we would go to them and say, Look, what do you need? You know, we're all small businesses, we understand sometimes it's tough. What can we do? Let's help. I absolutely advocate if you're in a position to be able to help a client out, help them out. As long as they're working with you. If they stop working with you, as into like they stop answering your emails or your phone calls, they're avoiding you, and you kind of know that something's going on here, they're not going to pay you. You cannot hesitate in putting that financial um legality, the legal side of the contract into place. You have to, because you've got to protect yourself. You've done the work, you've got to protect yourself. There needs to be late payment fees, there needs to be um, you know, breach of contract consequences.
SPEAKER_02Basically, breach of contract consequences, yeah. Which also leads me back to you need to have contracts with your clients, not just verbal agreements. Like I don't know whether why I said lead leads me back to, but that was a thought that I had of like we're talking about having contracts with clients. And actually, you know, there are some businesses that I know that are out there are just on verbal verbal agreements, or you know, a text message that says, yes, I'm in. And I'm like, no, let me read your your terms and conditions, let me let me read the contract. What are my obligations? What's going to happen?
SPEAKER_01Like, say, if I don't pay, if I, you know, if I'm late with payments, or and more more on that though, is that I mean, we used to have service level agreements with every single client from day one, and I did it in Blue Giraffe as well. Even with the Tower Tribe, I went into contracts that you know later down the line because I knew I had to start running it as a business entity. However, even though we have these agreements in place, did I ever really take them seriously? Did my clients ever take them seriously? Probably not. And I think we did the classic and went online and just downloaded one. We didn't actually know what our contract was. You need to make your contract really personal to your business. Don't rely on what's online. Your contract needs to be watertight. It really needs to be seen by somebody who understands what they're talking about. And you can have, you know, if you're members of the chamber or FSB, they've all got legal keys who run their contract. You don't need to spend 500 quid on a solicitor. There are options for it. Get somebody to look over the contract, make sure it's watertight. It's like the printer. We could not get out of that contract. We had a solicitor who specialized in um um disputes, uh contract disputes. He couldn't get us out of the contract. It was absolutely watertight. Even though we had been missold, this printer, it was watertight. Your contracts need to be watertight, but you need to be prepared to stand by them as well. You can help your clients out to a certain degree, but at some point you've got to protect your income. You have to live and breathe by those contracts. My dog groomer, right? I took on a new dog groomer. Now, the first one I had, there was no agreement in place. This second one, she made me fill out two forms, two questionnaires. Then she made me come on the phone and have a phone conversation with me. You know, if she knew me, she'd know how much I hate that. And then she said, I'm going to send you my terms and conditions and the contract. I need you to read them and sign them both before we go into this. Her contracts are watertight and there was no option for me to scan. I had to read every bit because every part demanded a signature. So I needed to know exactly what I was signing up to. I know full well my dogs are highly protected under this woman. She takes her job incredibly seriously. I also know that if I cancel an appointment within 48 hours, she's got my card and she's taking that money. There are no excuses. And absolutely, I'll sign up to that because she's got a business to run. She needs to protect that income, she needs to protect that space that she's timed out for me. I get it. But if you've got clients who don't respect you, not only do you end the contract, but you then take them to court if you need to, because otherwise you're setting a precedent.
SPEAKER_02And that's the thing when you are in a very um friendly business, when you are a particularly friendly person. Um, so again, you know, my nail tech she said this is like that she needs to, you know, in start actually holding up, you know, that that late, late, yeah, uh, late cancellation fees or you know, no show fees and stuff like that. And she's like, she she was really nervous about doing it because you know, she's like, oh, but I, you know, all of my clients are lovely and I like I have such a good relationship with them. Because it's like a hairdresser, right? Like you get your nails done, you chin work, and you you get to know um who's doing it.
SPEAKER_01But you've got to put food on the table at the end of the week.
SPEAKER_02But she's gonna pay a business. And I'm like, but this is this is a business, this is not you just throwing a fee on because why not? It this is you actually genuinely protecting your time because you are gonna lose out. This is a business that genuinely can't get back that time, like they you know, hairdressers, nail salons, you know, anything that is physically, you know, physically done. So stop whatever meant. But you know, if they have they got mass overheads, rent electricity, but if they don't have a somebody show up, that you know, that's not a free hour for them. That is that is a loss of income, that is a loss of earnings in a business.
SPEAKER_01Paul used to do it all the time. He was a driving instructor and he used to drive me mad with it because he had in his contract, in his terms and conditions, 48 hours, you get charged for the lesson. And we used to argue all the time because he'd have people cancel an hour before, and I'm like, that is like 50 quid you've just lost out on that you cannot get back, you'll never get that income back. They didn't give you time. Why are you not charging in advance? Why on your website is there not a pay for your lesson in advance or pay for your blocks in advance? If there is a genuine reason, of course, that can be delayed, it can be pushed to another lesson. There are ways around it if it's a genuine reason, but you've got to protect your business.
SPEAKER_02You have to oh, I forgot I got the lesson to I forgot I got my nail appointment.
SPEAKER_01That's and it happens all the time. It happened all the time. He'd have kids like rock up and say, I'm sorry, mate, it didn't get until four o'clock this morning, and I've got a hangover, I can't drive because I've still got alcohol in my system. And he'd be at their address, and it would be like, and you didn't take payment for that lesson? What are you doing?
SPEAKER_02Well, I I mean, um, this is a while a while ago now, and I I booked an emergency appointment again with my nail tech. Um, and she was having a lot of health concerns at the at the time. So I was a last-minute booking because one of my nails had broken, you know, I know first world problems of having the nails.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, it is first world problems devastating.
SPEAKER_02And um so I went down at the time that they'd said, Oh, they can squeeze me in for a fix at this point. So I went down there and the shop was all shut up and the lights were off and it was all closed, but there was nothing on the door. And my first thing was, this is not like them. So I sent them a message like to the business page, um, because I do have my my nail tech's personal number as well, but I was like, I'm not gonna message because I don't know what's gone on. And my first concern was, is everybody okay? Because this is not like you to have not let me know. Um, and then when they got back in touch with me, they were very apologetic because actually my nail tech was in the back of an ambulance when I sent the message saying, Is this okay? But because I was a last minute, so they contacted everybody who was booked pre-booked in, but because I was a last-minute fix, they hadn't actually put me on the diary, they just knew I was coming. Um, and then she um she unfortunately wasn't ended up in the back of an ambulance, had to go to hospital. And so they contacted all the people that were booked in the diary, because one of the other members of staff was able to do that, but she'd forgotten, because you know, priorities at that point was her health, not on who have I got coming to see me today for nails. Um, and we still laugh and joke about it. And I was like, well, you know, I didn't I didn't get recompense for the fact that you left me with a broken nail for an extra 24 hours because you were in the back of an ambulance.
SPEAKER_01But we joke about it, and it's like but in seriousness though, you can it can be a two-way street. And I used to say that to Paul, if you have to cancel the lesson, you need to give the next one free. You absolutely, you know, you put them out, it was inconvenient, you need to do that as well, which also kept him on track, and he was really good at doing that, he was just really bad at taking the money when they let him down. You know, you can be this isn't hard like to be nice in business, you can, and there is kind of it is not about being hard or tough or you know, really strict in your business. You can be the friendliest business owner, you can be you can be leeway, there can absolutely be leeway, but you do have to protect your business. You are still a business. You are absolutely. I would definitely do that one differently. I'd be a bloody millionaire now if everybody paid us.
SPEAKER_02So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Is there any fancy on the I don't even know if that was useful, but you know, it's down memory lane and all that. So what what is your wild what Wednesday wild words of wisdom? I think my biggest words of wisdom would be, and we've said it before, you have to treat your business as a big entity from day one. You have to put yourself in that strategic leader, managing director role. How do they do it? What do they do? And that's how you treat your business from day one. Even if it's on a small scale, when you're in that situation, when you're doing those things on a daily basis as it starts to grow, which it inevitably will because you're doing it right from the start, then yes, those jobs get bigger, but that's when you start taking other people on to do them. Because remember, when you actually get to managing director stage, you shouldn't be doing any of the stuff in the business anyway. But you've taken it that far. That's my uh did that make sense? Was that actually any words of wisdom? Was it just another rant? I think so.
SPEAKER_02I think part of us needs to start to release at least some snippets of us talking because I've noticed how much we flail our hands around on way of all the other.
SPEAKER_01We do, we're very animated. Um I I feel like I rant a lot on this podcast. Am I too ranty? I don't know. Answers on a postcard on our Facebook and Twitter.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, let me know.
SPEAKER_01Do I need to tone it down a bit? It's quite ironic for a semantic trauma-informed coach and trainer. Do I need to like tone down a rant? I do, I am passionate. Maybe I trigger people, maybe I do need to like take a step back. Is it scary listening to me?
SPEAKER_02I don't think so, but then I share your passion and I kind of I'm I'm I'm on with the wave. I ride the wave of the passion of like we s we see at the start one of our episodes sort of really mellow and like, oh yeah, it's not a lot going on.
unknownCome on, get into it.
SPEAKER_01Fight mode kicks in.
SPEAKER_02So again, let us know in the comments as to whether or not do you do you think Verity and I are too ranty? Are we are we, you know, what's what's you know your biggest takeaway from these? Because it's like you know, we are releasing these because we want people to learn from our mistakes, and I think we've listed quite a few of us in this episode.
SPEAKER_01We've made a lot. So was she wild where's the wisdom?
SPEAKER_02Um Yeah, I don't think I can top yours. I think I'm on board with yours of the fact that yeah, treat your treat your b treat your business like a business, it's not a hobby. Even if it is a hobby business, even if it is your part-time side hustle thing, still treat it like a business. You know, recognise that businesses getting paid by clients is different than friends you know lending you some money because you've made them something. Do you know it it yeah, I get it. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it did. And you need to recognize a business. Right, this is like 53 minutes. The last one was an hour as well. We're not doing very well on time.
SPEAKER_02Ironically, the fact that since we did the time management episode, we we're not managing. I don't think we have many animal references in today either. I don't think we had any.
SPEAKER_01Did I say excited puppy? Oh, you did say excited puppy, yeah. You did. Okay. There you go, we had one. Right, folks, we will see you next time. Yeah, see ya. Have a good week. Thanks for spending this time with us on Wildly Intentional. If this podcast sparks something for you, take it with you and act on it. Don't forget to subscribe, share, and come and say hello online.
SPEAKER_02And remember, bold talk leads to big breakthroughs with no apologies.