Story Time #015 - Blood Pressure, MSG Lights, and a Championship Run.

In this episode of Story Time, TheRealKingFish, The Marathon Continues and a SPECIAL GUEST dive headfirst into the gritty, unapologetic chaos of the Knicks' championship run. From dissecting the hard-nosed heroics that define New York basketball to analyzing those terrifying, sanity-testing moments that keep us pacing, we’re breaking down what it actually means to bleed orange and blue right now.

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:00

And no, we just want one for two. Overall, three for four. Over the gun's opening! Somebody is the new attendance! Open the end of the championship to out! Remember, no timeouts!

SPEAKER_06 0:28

You think these next time it's the next break out? They're feeling it! They're feeling the championship. They're touching it. They're out of the gold.

SPEAKER_07 0:58

It's not over. This is not a dream. Your long, long late is ended. Go ahead and cry after 53 years. The Knicks are finally NBA champions once again.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

What is up, you clowns? We're back with another episode of Storytime with the Real Kingfish. I am your host, The Marathon Continues, and I'm joined by my favorite guest, The Real Kingfish. What's up, man? What's up, Champ? Hey, how you doing, man?

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Same to you, Champ. I guess, yeah, we call each other that now.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

It's great. You know, uh a friend of mine just called me that, and I feel like I should pass it on to you. Yeah, we did it.

SPEAKER_04 1:43

We did it. We collectively did it. We all did it. It feels like everybody did it together, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 1:48

I have never OD'd on content before in this way in my life. I've uh everything that I look at is Knicks oriented, everything that pops in my head when I'm just with myself is about the Knicks. Everything is Knicks all the time.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

I I think I need a little bit of a break after this, but but uh it's it's been amazing. It's and you know, I uh so we talked before they won, right? That was the last time.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

So you were very confident though.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

You were I was feeling very confident, yes. I I'm disappointed we didn't get to go to game six together, but I did feel like they were gonna win game five. I didn't feel like that in the second and and beginning of the third quarter or whenever during game five, but um I wasn't surprised that they took care of business.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

See, I have to say, I was not worried at all the whole time. I I had a feeling, you know, like that was once they didn't get a bigger lead, like they should have had a bigger lead at the beginning of that game. Um, and once they didn't do that, I was like, yo, they're cooked.

SPEAKER_04 2:51

Yeah, I I don't know that I've ever seen I I don't know, maybe some of the Jordan years, like some of the stuff that happened with Utah, but I'm just not sure I've ever seen anything so predictable, like one team just sort of like doing the same thing to the other team every time was really like I don't know, maybe unprecedented, maybe not. It's something sort of only a a veteran, really well put together team can do to a you know, like a bunch of guys who are way ahead of schedule, but but I thought pretty pretty unbelievable. Um, but yeah, really exciting. It's like there is a levity. The city is in a I've never seen the city like this, I have to say. Um it was so fun, yeah, so fun. Yeah, and uh, you know, I was at the parade yesterday, which was um really. So, you know, I I took my daughter. I was um the nice thing about I invited my son to come with me. He didn't want to. I made very clear to them it was gonna be a tough day. We got there at 6.15.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

How was the no? What was the no like from Gabe?

SPEAKER_04 3:56

Like, was it he he shook his head, he he did not want to say it out loud, but he yeah, he just shook his head no. Um, he, you know, and I get it, right? Um, so we went, we got there at 6 15. I stopped. I would say that after six o'clock Wednesday, I drank one cup of water uh the whole time through the evening, and a half a cup of water in the morning. We brought one Poland Spring bottle with us, and it was just standing there. The only stressful part I would say was kind of getting in. Very unclear what was happening. Um, but once we were in, it was, I would say, like New York really at its best. Like people having a good time, a little bit of inappropriate language. People don't drink like they used to, right? So it was um uh and you couldn't, you know, it was so early in the morning. Luckily, it wasn't hot, early, it was early, it wasn't a ton of sun. People smoke weed, and like there's a little bit of that going on, but like people are much less. I just remember the Yankee parades back in the day where it was like just show up, everybody's drunk, mashing to the front. Um, but they did a great job, and the players were having a party, man, like on the floats, off the floats. They were right there, we were right in the front, and um, it was amazing. It was did you get a high five from Josh Hart or no? I did not. The Josh Hart, um, you know, sort of the highlight for me. There was when I when we saw Josh Hart, he was like stepping to the back of his float to do um an interview with Alan Hahn. Landry Shaman was on the back of that float, looking like a like a English tourist. Um just shouting, I love you. Not even shouting, just saying, I love you guys. Just mouth everyone. What a guy. Um, you know, Albert.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

You know the the guy with the there's a movie that I that I can't recall, but there's like a shrunken head. I think it's like Adam's family or something like that. There's like a guy, a character with like a little head.

SPEAKER_04 5:58

I think Landry Shaman is handsome. I know that's a minor I know that's a half of his head is handsome.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

It feels as though it's a a tale of two different uh let me put it a different way.

SPEAKER_04 6:08

I think he's attractive. I'm not sure he's handsome. Well, he's got a nice body, he's got yeah, and he's got good style and he's got good energy. And I mean what what are we? People don't need to be perfect. Um, Alvarado by himself standing on some type of platform, only player with a microphone, just shouting craziness into it. I thought was cool. They clearly had a plan with Sohan and Jordan Clarkson. Like, let these guys, if these guys, if people are gonna use drugs in this parade, like let's put them on the same float, which I thought was smart. Um, I had Fat Joe and Fabulous on my side of the of the entertainer float. I guess Wu Tang was on the other side, unfortunately. Oh, but fine, I don't want to say anything bad about Fat Joe. Uh my daughter, they were giving out t-shirts, and Lila was in the front, and people kept giving her shirts that she was handing out to the crowd, which was exciting. But she was wearing Ava's um like 70s Knicks shirt, and then Spike Lee was on the back of a uh uh um you know one of these buses, and Lila was yelling to him to look at the shirt, and he thought she was yelling, give me a shirt. And then so he was saying back very apologetically, like, I don't have any shirts to give you. And that went on for what seemed like a long time. So we had our moment with Spike, which was nice.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

Well, so let me interject my story. Uh it's not a story. I, for the longest time, was pushing the Spike Lee curse. I thought in my heart of hearts that the Knicks were not going to win until he died, and that everything was his fault. That's what I thought.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

He was he was at the Willis Reed game. Okay. Sort of famously. He tells the story of skipping his father's concert, or his but now I've heard the story that his father encouraged him to skip the concert. Right, of course. Um what have you, but I don't know if we can blame Spike for this. Oh, another highlight, Lila shouted very loudly. She could see ahead more than us that Chalamet was coming on a float, but it turned out it was it was um Bulek. Oh, so there was some, yeah, some of some of that.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

But um shout out to PS87.

SPEAKER_04 8:18

I know Timothy Chalamet went to PS87. Yeah, yeah, I've had enough of the celebrity. I am over. I am the celebrities have got to go. I'm sick of the celebrities. I've had enough of the celebrities.

SPEAKER_03 8:29

Um, that's how I feel in general. I feel a bit this is it's like I feel a bit jealous in a way. Like, I don't know if it's jealousy is the right word, but like all these people that have come out of the woodwork that are like, you know, I'm kind of like, Where were y'all at? A little bit, you know, like a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

There was a float that at the back of it had just Matthew Modine and the dude from above the rim, right? You know, the black Jesus from the Madonna video. And uh he's a handsome man. That's he's a handsome man. Those dudes have been around, those dudes have been around. That guy's a 14th Street Y uh alum. Oh, to 14th Street Y. So yeah, it was a great day and it was hard work, uh, but but it was well worth it. I didn't get to see the stuff at at City Hall, um, although I've watched it since. And I, you know, I speaking of 14th Street we why alums and and speaking of City Hall, uh, we do have Charlie. I think we have a guest, I think we have a surprise guest with us.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Oh, do we?

SPEAKER_04 9:28

Oh, I think we do.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Oh, I you know, I I heard that as well, and I see him here.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

Um is it okay? We bring him on now. It's good, yeah. Bring him on. Okay, he's ready. Well, uh this man I'm here. This man, let me let me let me let me lay the let me set the table. This man, um, one of the more impressive individuals that I know as a human being. Um he is a New York City politics expert, but first and foremost, he's a ball knower. And I will add that there's not too many human beings that can make the real Kingfisher beta. This is one of them. So I'd like to bring him on. Ben Max, everybody. What's up?

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Well, that's too kind of an introduction, but I will take every word of it.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

Well, I was gonna endorse you for president in 2038, but um I thought I'd be getting ahead of myself. Well, you've already gotten ahead of yourself, but I am happy to be with you. Welcome on, man.

SPEAKER_04 10:38

And I I just want to say I wanted to have Ben on because I've heard him, I've been on a podcast with him talking about basketball during the course of the finals. I've heard him on other podcasts talking about basketball, and I felt like I could actually hear him sort of like biting his tongue like there was more, and it just wasn't appropriate. And I just wanted to give him a chance to share some of the more um with our massive audience.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

And there's only about eight people who listened to this.

SPEAKER_04 11:06

Just get into it a little bit, and and maybe he can draw us into some some we can share our politics takes.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Oh boy. Well, let me start by saying of the city hall ceremony that was awkward. Uh, and it was obviously awkward a little bit because of the background in the Mayor Mam Dani, Jim Dolan. Uh first of all, just differences of politics and background, but then also they had their disagreements about the watch parties outside MSG and the security, and it was just not a good setup coming into it. And then it it was pretty awkward on the stage at City Hall, but everybody got through it and it was still a great day. But Mom Dani gave this rousing Nick's history speech that was like 10 minutes long that probably went on a little bit long, but was mostly pretty good, I thought. And then Dolan basically got up there for about a minute and uh and made it clear that he didn't love mom Donnie's uh, in his view, grandstanding. So that that was quite a scene.

SPEAKER_04 12:03

Yeah, I so I thought momdani's speech was mostly good. I had a major beef with the middle, where look, I just don't think this championship belongs to people like Jared Jeffries and Ronaldo Balkman.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Could not agree more. I totally agree with it was way over the top.

SPEAKER_04 12:23

Yeah, and I know we like the I like the beginning and I like the end, and I like the 0.4% kind of tying into um like you know, this notion of what New York is and and his, you know, the politics of him, but the we don't we don't all have to show our bona fide like the Nick's tape era was in some ways the low point, and I didn't appreciate talking about the the the premier players, and I I think that was the two minutes that just didn't need to be there.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Totally agree. There was also a weird moment where there was like memories that were out of order, like Bernard King got mentioned after John Starks, and I was like, what's going on here?

SPEAKER_03 13:06

I agree, I agree with that now. I think he's pretending to know more about basketball than he actually does, which is fine. He's a phony, but um, you know, I it you I couldn't agree with you more. No, in no way, shape, or form does you know uh sh what Langston, who do you who look like yeah, yeah. Like, no, it does not belong to Langston Galloway at all. Like, maybe Patrick Ewing and Charles Oakley, like maybe you can say these guys.

SPEAKER_04 13:37

I think the first like when he got into the 90s Knicks, am I wrong that he Charles Oakley was the first or second person he said?

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Yeah, he I think he said Stark's Ewing Oakley. Yeah, okay, I can live with that. That was all fine. The problem to me was the middle. Like, I I didn't mind the old shout-outs, of course, and I didn't even mind the guys who recently departed.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

Yeah, Randall, DiVincenzo, Tibbs.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Yeah, but my Tibbs doesn't get enough love, like like, like, in my opinion, the core of what makes them so good, which is their grit, was installed by that guy. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

See, I I feel very conflicted about that. I think with this with the personnel they've had, I don't know if that I don't know if Tibbs makes that big a difference. You know, when you have Jalen Brunson, Josh Hart, some of these guys, I'm just not sure. I I like I feel genuinely conflicted about that and and like what how the culture was created on this team. But it's probably just a combination.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

My biggest issue with the Mam Dani speech uh was he did not at least give a perfunctor congratulations to Dolan and Leon Rose, which I do not understand. And I understand his his, you know, he's he wants to be the opposite of Jim Dolan, but you get up there and the owner of the team is sitting there, and and Leon Rose, by the way, who just still doesn't even get enough credit for all the moves he made to put this team together, he should have given them a shout. You know, he named 50 former Knicks he could name the guy who owns the team and the guy who put the team together.

SPEAKER_04 15:14

So that was like I'm surprised he didn't mention Dave Czechitz or Ernie Grunfeld. I mean, it's like he really, really went on. I I I agree. I think this was a time for um the high road and sort of like graciousness, and he could have he could have done better there. I will say though, I am not here for any James Dolan like rehabilitation. I I'm still not happy with the George Steinbrenner like um you know reinvention that's gone on since he died, I I find to be very frustrating. I will say, and and I'm not here for Dolan, like I get it, but it was like eight days ago that Trump was at the game. You know, it's like, and I and tension between mayors and sports owners is not unprecedented. There was always Steinbrenner threatening to move the Yankees to New Jersey and like saying the city, you know, the Bronx was falling apart all around them, etc. I don't know which mayor that was. It certainly wasn't Giuliani, but like I'm not here for that. I'm I'm just not.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Let me say on the positive side, Mam Dani and just his win and his uh term so far, I think have matched this Knicks win really well in terms of energy, uh, the New York City patriotism element that you know he's got a lot of, and he wants to be, you know, a cheerleader for the city and you know be exciting and bring energy and youth and all that. I think you know tied in very nicely, and and his remarks also tied into that. Although, again, they went on a little long and had some pieces that were questionable. But I think overall, you know, there was a nice element of that, and and how his win and term so far, you know, also sort of coincide with the Knicks.

SPEAKER_04 17:03

Yeah, and I will add, um really very little can be said about fan misbehavior, law enforcement issues yesterday. Like for the most part, I think the city should be very proud of itself, and I think that's all very positive for Ramdani.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Can we uh can we just spend a minute uh talking about those other two clowns who got to speak for no reason? The the guy who called Jalen Brunson Jalen Brown and then the lady.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

You know what I'm talking about? Did you guys see that basketball?

SPEAKER_03 17:41

Oh my god. I just like can't we hear other Knicks? Why do we only get Jalen Brunson? Like I wanted to hear Kat tell Jimmy Butler to go, you know, walk off with short here or whatever. Is now the time for that? I don't know. I wanted more Knicks talking. Anyway, so on to the basketball. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Alright, I have two questions. One is do we have any idea what happened after the Hawks were up 2-1 in the first round? Like, do we have any idea if there was a meeting, if there was a chance? Like, I I feel like I, you know, it was a players-only meeting, from my from what I understand. Yeah, I'm not caught up on every cut all the coverage, but I still that feels like a mystery to me in terms of like how this thing went from the Knicks are down two-one, and everyone's like, oh, Mike Brown was the fifth choice for a reason and needs to get out of town to now him like leading them on one of the greatest playoff runs of all time, and he's gonna be a legend, you know, in in Knicks history forever.

SPEAKER_04 18:45

Ben, can I ask you a question?

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

Have you ever been in a players-only meeting? Have you led a players-only meeting?

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Oh, absolutely in college, yeah. Well, let's tell us about because I certainly haven't been. So let me so one thing that actually came up from my college basketball time that this Knicks team has made me think about a lot is the slow starts. So when I was a senior in college, we had a very like mediocre team. Uh, we had been really good when I was a junior. And again, I wasn't like a a star on either of these teams, but um, and we in my senior year, we got off to a lot of slow starts. And as a captain, I was like trying to figure out how we fix this. So I started having us play like a light three on three in pregame warmups. Again, not to like get anybody hurt or anything, but like get a real sweat going, get moving on defense, like trying to figure that out. And and so that was a time where like as players, we got together and tried to figure out like what the heck is going on with all these slow starts. And so the Knicks team getting off to really terrible starts in so many of these games uh has made me think about that a lot. So that ties in uh that type of meeting and uh one of these issues that I still feel like is a mystery around the Knicks.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

To answer your question though, didn't they this was something that I don't think Tibbs could have done? Was he changed the offense? And again, uh you know, I'm not privy to the X's and the O's, but from what I understand, they started running the offense through cat. Like they would run they did do that, uh they would run uh an OG on a yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:26

Um but I don't think they continued that too too much in the Hawk series. They like abused them with it, right? They embarrassed them with it.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

Yeah, that 50-point win was like that. They just did that over and over and over.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

There's just something amazing about basketball that happened here, though, that I think also too is just like once it clicks, it's incredible, you know. And the thing that seemed to click for them was the way they started to really move the ball offensively, yeah, in a way that uh you know, I think they had flashes of during the regular season because they do have a lot of unselfish guys, but it really was this unbelievable sort of like drive and kick offense that was incredible, even though I think Brunson still sometimes holds on to the ball too much.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

But um well, sham it and sham it and and and um Deuce hitting everything, like sure it helps if you're running driving kick for your shooters to make all their shots.

SPEAKER_04 21:23

Yeah, yeah. I mean, those guys carried the you know, that that really sort of started to come apart in the finals, but those guys like you can make the case that and I realize sports doesn't work this way, but that the sort of marginal benefit they got from what was going on with Shaman in particular just like got them into the finals.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

I mean it's on the well, but this is also why they were winning games by 40 points until the finals, right? It was like all of a sudden they're just blowing everybody away, and then the finals they didn't quite have that, and the games were tighter. But yeah, all right. What's your second question? The second question was um What so what is like the reason that um like cat cat just sort of comes and goes, and what actually makes the difference in that is what I still I still don't quite understand. And one of my medium hot takes of this victory is that I think one of the biggest questions around Kat was like, can he even be the second best player on a championship winning team? And I think the Knicks won with him as the third best player, and that's part of why they were able to win because OG Ananobi was actually the second best player on this team.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

No, you're 100% correct. I think you're right about that. 100%. And I think Jalen Brunson treats OG as such, like he's treated him as such the whole time. Like he knows that you know, if you if you look at how their other runs putted out, it was around him getting injured. Um, but I think the cat thing to me, like, why does he start slow? I think a lot of it is like foul trouble, right? Like if he gets an early foul, like he starts to play tentatively and then it all goes away.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Isn't cat one of the guys that often starts hot?

SPEAKER_03 23:15

I was gonna say, I don't think he starts slow.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Brunson, it's it's I feel like it's Brunson. Brunson's like right, his splits are I feel like his first and second half splits are ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 23:25

I think there's also something about Brunson just like out lasting guys. Yes, I mean he looks like a boxer at the end of these games, right? They're like pressing him full court and all this stuff, and I do think there's a way that he is sort of pacing himself and testing, and you know, he's clearly thinks the game in a in a way that's different, and that has to be some of this.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

To me, this is how yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Well, I was just gonna say to me, this is how they win this year, like the run out was perfect. So if you remember, the Detroit series was amazing. He looked a lot like he did in the finals against Detroit in round one last year, but they ran out of juice, they didn't have any juice left at the end of the year, and or excuse me, once you get it. He started getting hurt, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

This is the thing that's incredible about this run, I think, is that Brunson didn't get hurt. He had the one big scare. What was that, game one? Yes, game one, and then but he that didn't derail him. And the fact that he was healthy throughout the playoffs, and maybe that that was helped by the fact that they had uh two sweeps, but um he him staying healthy, I think, was like maybe the biggest variable in all this.

SPEAKER_04 24:35

They all stayed healthy. The only injuries they had was OG's hamstring, which the time got them. And I'm hoping one of your questions is gonna be like, what what happened to Mitchell Robinson's finger?

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Well, that is, I think, is a great mystery to be solved. But the no, my other question was to add on was I wanna, I I don't know if this is out there, I haven't looked for it in a few days, but like, what did the Knicks do between the Eastern Conference Finals and the finals to stay in shape and and to stay sharp? And obviously they had another bad first half in the first game of the finals, but like I want to know what the practice regimen was for these guys to to stay in such great shape for that long a layoff, and like how they practiced hard, scrimmage and all that without any injuries, because apparently Mitchell Mitchell Robinson's injury wasn't from practice.

SPEAKER_04 25:26

So yeah, I'd like to, I'd I'd like to hear a story that's like they had uh the the college team come play against them or some crazy thing like that. But I haven't you're right.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

I would have gotten out a single well to to your to to uh to your point, they just they experienced it, they just did the same thing, like they had this kind of layoff back to back. So whatever they did, they at least knew what not to do. Because that first, I mean it was the same problem in game one, but maybe they switched it up. I I mean I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

But I just like I want to actually look at every day's schedule and practice plan and actually know exactly what happened between the end of the Eastern Conference Finals and game one of the finals because that's an extremely long layoff, and they had to stay sharp and they had to stay in shape, and they did those things to an incredible degree without getting hurt.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

They lost all the hot shooting, though.

SPEAKER_04 26:23

All the hot shooting was can we just go back to the the who's the bet second best player on the next question for a second? Is that a question? I don't think it's a question, but I do think that OG Ananobi is a player that really like puts the way players are evaluated, puts the whole thing sort of into question. Like he's so productive on both ends of the floor that and Ben and I have talked about this before. You probably wouldn't see him in the top, I don't know, in the top 50 before this all happened. I'm not really sure. This guy is a killer, like he can shoot it, he can bully past you, he can finish at the rim.

SPEAKER_03 27:03

He's a great defender, and you know savage, he's cold as ice, too.

SPEAKER_04 27:09

Yeah, all of he's ready to have a fight if you need to have a like what you name it, he's ready to do it, and he just doesn't. I don't know. And then you have Towns, who is a very good player and has some really high-level skills, but is just doesn't is not the same player. And back to Leon Rose. Yeah, they built a great question. Incredible, incredible, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Can I say this about Kat though? Yes, his production was down a bit, but I do think he exemplified one of the most important things in basketball across the board, which is shot selection. He did not force the issue in the finals in a way that needs to be like appreciated, I think, to a significant degree when you're that talented offensively. And I know obviously like you're dealing with Wemby somewhat, but he didn't force shots, and that's huge.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

Yeah, and also that play on the inbounds. I don't know how to talk about my my boy Al Palagonia. Awesome, awesome play on the inbounds. Um yeah, no, I cat he's he's this is something this is a role that he needed, like he needed he could never be the one on a team, he could never be, and this is perfect for him. This situation is perfect for all of us.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Yeah, he's I mean he's basically like 2A, 2B, right? With with Ananobi and depending on the night, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

So I can tell you this though, the OG thing, just let me touch on OG for a minute. When they traded for him, I was a little sad because I like the homegrown Knicks thing, you know, and but I did not think that they were getting this by any stretch of the imagination. Did I think they were getting this level player?

SPEAKER_04 28:52

But I uh anyway, so go ahead and to go back to Momdani for a second. I actually thought that the precise line like of player could be mentioned, like is right above RJ Barrett and Emmanuel quickly. I would I would have mentioned everybody above that, so like Randall North is in, but I'm sorry, like those guys cute there they were cute, that was nice. Come on.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

There's not there's not that much room, Randall North. Like that's you know, yeah, exactly. Anyway, um a couple other interesting things I'm interested in your guys' reactions to that I've been thinking about in these playoffs. The like the continued rise of the combo guard. So it's like obviously Curry is the biggest example of this, but like now Brunson is is right there. And we've obviously had Lillard and Luca and you know some of these other guys who are point guards, but they're really the top scorer on the team. And I find that like such an interesting element because of the usage, and I just uh again, it was a miracle to me that Brunson stayed healthy given the beating that he takes. This is also a guy who steps in and tries to take charges all the time, which is crazy, but awesome. Um leads the league, leads the league in them. Yeah. I mean, did he lead the league this year?

SPEAKER_04 30:09

Do you remember last year? Yeah, he led the league. Oh, Jemski had some obscene number of charges taken.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Yeah. But anyway, continue. Um, but I just I think there's something interesting here about, you know, again, the continued rise of the combo guard and the question of usage. And I'm not even talking about usage in like an analytics data analytics sense. I'm talking about can the guy actually do it and stay healthy? And I think not to rain on any parades, but one of the biggest questions going into next season will be how do they manage Brunson's minutes? How do they keep him healthy? Can Alvarado play an even bigger role? You know, things like that. Because I just I can't believe he stayed healthy for the whole playoffs. Again, they didn't play that many games, so that was huge. But the guy is just dribbling so much, taking such a beating. I'm I don't know how you you know survive at his size like for for longer if you're not resting a little bit more.

SPEAKER_04 31:10

Combo guard used to be a knock, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yeah, it used to be you shoot too much if it as a point guard.

SPEAKER_04 31:16

Yeah, it was like a oh, you can't win with a combo guard. And and like those combo guards were sort of the ones that were famous were sort of oddities, right? Like I think of like Gilbert Arenas as sort of like the ultimate shithead combo guard, but it was like Marberry. What about Rodriguez? Marbury, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

I mean, Rod, I think I feel like Strickland was more of a pass, still sort of a pass first guy, but he's yeah, he's a he's in there.

SPEAKER_04 31:41

But I I agree, and and point forwards were fine, right? But like even yeah, it's it's always been an issue, and now I think you you sort of see them all over. I do think Brunson, I mean, the thing about Brunson that people forget is that he's a sort of a straw, like you know, he's like he's big in his own way, I guess. But I do think it is, it sort of changed the league. Ben and I have been Charlie, Ben and I have been going back and forth. I'm insisting that Jalen, and I will continue to insist that Jalen Brunson is better than Luka Doncic.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Whoa. Um, yeah, I mean, I what am I gonna say? I'm not gonna argue with it with you on that. Um the the combo guard thing, I don't know if this is really answering your question or the thing that you bring up. Um, but I I think it does a little bit. Like, I I think maybe the offenses are different now, and like the way the game has changed with all the space, that the point guard doesn't have to necessarily be the the ball. Like what I'm referring to is like the the running the offense through cat um that clicks so well in the playoffs. Like maybe, you know, yes, he is the quote unquote point guard, but like, you know, the way that in other sports, you know, when your best player plays a certain position, like you adjust the way that you play. And I think I think it's perfectly reasonable the way this was this was always the thing about Thibodeau, like Brown is flexible enough to play more people and play people more minutes and figure out how that goes going forward. I I I I think they I personally think they figure it out. I think he's smart enough to know like when to use his energy and when not to, especially when it comes to the regular season. Like, I'm not concerned with that at all. Like, I think he's one of the the smartest decision makers I've seen as a human. Like, he was the only one who got sleep before Good Morning America. You can very obviously see that. Like, this is another decision that he made that is like obviously smart. Um, so you know, I I think they'll be fine. I'm not worried about it at all. I think it'll last a while.

SPEAKER_04 33:47

But that that can just give me hope. I think there's something to be said for like, you know, I I I think there's still you look at a guy like Brunson, I think Carey is like this too. These guys take a lot of shots, they dribble the ball a lot. They're not chuckers, though. Like, and I don't I think they fall short of being sort of traditional point guards and like let me go make sure that guy gets a shot. But like everyone on the Knicks gets shots for the most part, right? And everybody touches the ball, even though there's a lot of that. And I do think that's sort of a that was always the biggest knock. I mean, I Alan Iverson was probably number one, actually. I said to over during this, but I think there's something to that too.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

Um game four, it's just whenever Brunson passes it, he's just passing it so he can start his dribble again. Like he's just going getting the ball back.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Yeah, so I think it's again, I can't you can't question anything now that they want it, but like I I really that that bothers me in terms of like the way basketball should be played. It's like he should be going off, he he should be like going off the screen through the paint, like Curry does, and you might get him on a backdoor layup once or twice a game if you do that.

SPEAKER_04 34:56

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 34:58

I mean Ben Ben always says Ben's mo Ben's quote, which Ben, you want to you know what quote I'm gonna say. No, I don't never trust an over-dribbler.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Oh yes, yeah. But like again, basketball has changed. I don't know. I maybe I have to change.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Well no, uh like I said, I think it's a personnel thing. Like the NBA is the NBA, as you know, both of you on this on this call, we know the the it's not the beautiful game that it was before. Like the Warriors were an anomaly. This is a very like one-on-one league. Like, even if you watch, you know, college games, like if you watch the Huskies play or you watch these teams play, like they run stuff, right? The the the NF and the NBA, they're not running. If they have an action, you'll parallel them.

SPEAKER_04 35:45

There's action. But it's very funny to me though, because I remember 20 years ago, and it was like the NBA is this unwatchable one-on-one shit. That's all anyone talked about. Now, it would be like one-on-one, and the other three of the four other guys couldn't shoot at all, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:01

And they were like literally standing around inside the three-point line, but it's into a lot of like post-up, you know, back to the basket disgusting, like dribble six times backing your guy down. And again, they sort of tried to change it.

SPEAKER_04 36:14

Yeah, I think of like Glenn Robinson, yeah, or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

But it was also a lot of pick and roll, which we still have a lot of, but now everybody switches and I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

But well, you can offer this. Like, is it just more fun to watch somebody like Jalen Brunson play one-on-one? Like, it's just fun to watch him do it, right? Like the football.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Every time he takes eight dribbles to like get himself moving, I cringe. I can't take it. It's like he, you know, he's like rocking. I get it. He's like rocking a little bit, and he's starting to look where's the defense leaning, and I get it, but I it it drives me crazy.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

Yeah, I you know, that didn't hit me until now. And now it totally tracks that that would just be.

SPEAKER_04 36:54

Oh, it hit you, it hit you last year. You have you I've heard you complain about this, Charlie, but that's okay. It's now the same.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

But also to a point I made earlier, the Knicks also there was a lot of Brunson dribbling, but they also did have the ball moving a lot. There was a lot of drive and kick and creating advantage.

SPEAKER_05 37:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

And you have to do that against Wemby, but like there was a lot of that throughout the playoffs, and it was a lot of Brunson hero ball, and then it was also a lot of good team ball. And guys like Hart and Alvarado and and Bridges, there, and I mean, I could keep going because this is a it's actually a great team of team guys, and that's part of how you win a championship is you bring in a lot of guys who actually want to play team basketball, and that was like the incredible thing about the way this team came together on both ends. Um, you know, to to do that. Yeah, defense not talked about enough, right?

SPEAKER_03 37:48

Like how well they played on defense. You're right.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

Also, one of my biggest takes on the finals was that the refereeing was fine. This is your hottest take. This is my favorite.

SPEAKER_03 38:01

Walk me through that. First of all, hold my hand like I'm a small child.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

I I actually think the refereeing favored the Knicks. They were holding and clutching and grabbing Wembo Nama constantly without it mostly getting called. And yeah, there were a couple bad calls on cat. You know, there are bad calls. There's always going to be bad calls, whether the referees are calling it loose or tight. And I think the referees mostly called it loose, which is exactly the way we've always talked about refereeing in the playoffs. They start to swallow the whistle. That's probably good overall, but you have to maintain some control of the game. And I think they mostly did that. I think there were times where they actually undercalled the game, but I think overall I didn't see a problem with how they refereed.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

Uh yeah, okay. Um the the one of the one of the issues that I have was um well, oh let me let me walk backwards. You you I understand full well that Wemby is probably a really difficult basketball player to officiate. Like, let's be honest, he's uh he's a one-of-one basketball player, nobody's really seen anything like him before, right? So it's probably really difficult to officiate this type of player. But at the same time, I can't agree with you. There were too many missed calls in too many important scenarios, and maybe I'm like caught up in game five, but there were like so many things that if you tell me, you know, if it's a conspiracy theory, if you tell me like the league told them not to call the thing, fine. But like there's too many missed calls. Like, I for me to call it a good officiating with the world.

SPEAKER_04 39:51

I do, but I do think I do think that I tell look, I tell my son this. Maybe this isn't true in the idea, but I say like officiating is always bad, is sort of like how I try and explain it. Like, you're never gonna agree, right? And yeah, but for example, they didn't call the foul. I know they said it wasn't a foul, but they certainly didn't call anything on um on um OG on the block on Fox. Sure. Right? They could have. Right. I mean, like these are it's sort of hard without thinking moment to moment. One thing for me as a fan that I find very frustrating is when I watch with other people and like it devolves into like that's a foul, that should have been a foul, call the foul. I want to watch a game with as few as few calls as possible.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Right. Something that changes. I also feel like this idea that like the referee is gonna be bad, that just means we don't have the right amount of tolerance for the fact that this is really hard. Yeah, they have the best referees officiating in the finals, you know, give or take, a couple, and there's gonna be missed calls, and it it's just gonna happen. I mean, I think Jonathan, we've talked about this. There's too many reviews, but like how they but now they have the reviews, and so they do get some things fixed. And there just has to be tolerance for some bad calls. And it what you want is consistency, and you want it to not feel like one team is favored. And if it did feel like the Spurs were favored in game five, I think with one team up 3-1 in the other team's building, facing elimination, it's I mean, yeah, it's like almost impossible for it not to feel at least a little like they're gonna favor the home team, which again maybe is a problem, but like you know, that's a tale as old as time.

SPEAKER_04 41:43

I I just I just want to say uh as far as Ben and officials, I've seen him ejected from a men's league game. So I I can tell you the best.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Well, Ben, let me ask you in a men's league, is is yes, is gonna be bad.

SPEAKER_03 41:57

But for sure. Let me ask you a question though, Ben. Okay the way that Wemby plays to me, and this is why I made that comment earlier. If you watch him as the screener in all of these screener rolls, these high screen and rolls with the Aaron Fox that they run, he is constantly using his hands to separate and to gain an advantage, like constantly. And from what I understand in playing basketball, again, I I didn't play high school basketball, I didn't play college basketball, but a screen is not allowed to be set with one's hands.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

100% rules. This this should have Wemby has been doing this all season, which I don't understand why he's been allowed to get away with it, especially with the length of his arms, right? Like if Jalen Brunson is setting a back screen and like extends his arms a little, you're not gonna notice it that much. Wemby is fully extending his hands into players back setting screens. I don't understand why the referees called didn't call it all. I think they called it once they called one, yeah. But he like so clearly pushed off on that screen that they had to call it. So, yes, I agree. That was that was strange.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

But it's to me that's the big problem.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

But it, but but at the same time, they were letting Knicks players do that too. Sure, they might not have done it to the extent Wemby and they don't have the same arms, but like you know, I think it was relatively consistent. And should they have called Wemby for like the smoosh on Braille on Brunson? Yes, but also Brunson was holding his jersey, clutching his jersey at the waist before he smushed him, and that was happening constantly to players like Wemby. It happens to Brunson too, where like they're getting fouled before they react, right? And so that has to be taken into consideration.

SPEAKER_04 43:45

Uh Ben, you mentioned challenges. Uh, whatever this proximate review challenge situation is, is one of the worst additions to the sport I've seen in a long time. This thing where with the foulest challenge. Challenged and then they had a couple of these with Wembby and Towns. They challenge the foul and then they come back and they say there was an offensive foul that preceded it, or they challenge an out of bounds, and they and they go uh forward from or back back from the out-of-sand and they say, Well, there was a foul there, so the out-of-bounds actually doesn't matter. The player did this leading up to it, I think is absurd, and had a very very negative impact, I think, on on some of the games in the finals in particular.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Well, and and the Spurs actually realized how to use it really well. And they that was like a brilliant job by them the number of times they they used the challenge in those situations. I thought that was like they they sort of like hacked the system.

SPEAKER_04 44:44

They did. And an otherwise, I think terrible performance by the Spurs coaching staff. I do think that was a one area where they did well.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

Well, they're young too, right? Like um, you know, I but you know, I'm not a doctor, but but uh Harper should have been playing more like they it seemed like they learned things as games went on, right? Like what happened in game one where Harper didn't play down the stretch, like didn't happen again. It's just like, you know, uh you you gotta give him a lot of respect. I feel like they will heal like he will learn from this, and like he'll be really fun.

SPEAKER_04 45:20

The one mistake that seemed very obvious to me was in game four to be up so big for so long in that game and and have Wimby like at his the most minutes he ever played was a was a like a bit somebody lost track of something in that context. But that's what can you do? What else you got?

SPEAKER_01 45:42

I'm I gave you my hottest take on the referee. I don't know. I don't have that much more.

SPEAKER_03 45:47

That was that had me I that was a good one, man. That was a very difficult thing to do is have me speechless.

SPEAKER_04 45:57

People people are starting to talk to me about next season already. Okay. Uh you know, I think I think the Knicks are probably I think they'll probably almost be. I mean, obviously a lot could happen. The Celtics could end up with Giannis, right? That would be sort of a big deal. Uh I don't think Giannis going to the Heat would change much from a Knicks perspective. But do you think the Knicks I mean I assume they'll be favorites to win the East next season?

SPEAKER_01 46:22

I mean, sort of as of right, they should be, but uh, you know, let's see what Detroit does in the offseason. Um let's see what the Celtics do. I mean, even if the Celtics just basically bring everybody back, you gotta have a healthy Tatum for real. Dangerous. But the Knicks have to be the favorites coming off a championship. That could change within a month. Not the Wizards?

SPEAKER_03 46:46

You guys are looking at the Wizards.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

If the Knicks are gonna do any make any bench moves, I think is a very interesting off-season question. Yeah. They also got lucky that I mean, obviously he broke part of his hand going into the finals, but they both managed him smartly, but they got lucky that they had a mostly healthy Mitchell Robinson season and postseason.

SPEAKER_04 47:12

And let me say one thing about Mitchell Robinson. He finally, I know he didn't score, I think he actually finished scoreless, but he had a big impact on that game. He finally, it was like it had been weeks and weeks, and he had some really big rebounds and some really big plays in that game.

SPEAKER_03 47:28

Yeah, he was incredible. Well well, let me ask you this. That would be the one way the Knicks team would completely change, is if you change the big coming off the bench. Like if you swap Mitch out for a different type of big, like that would be one way to my view is you bring, like, there there's probably gonna be a question about, you know, if they could save money at that position and blah blah blah, the apron.

SPEAKER_04 47:52

I I I think in a situation like this where the team is not neither young or old and is defending, like you bring all these guys back.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

I think that'll be interesting.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

Was that you that told me that fish that they were hiding him on purpose?

SPEAKER_04 48:13

No, I would never that's I don't traffic in conspiracy.

SPEAKER_03 48:16

They didn't play any they didn't play him any minutes in the playoffs at all. That was weird.

SPEAKER_04 48:21

Yeah, they played Sohan whenever they needed a a second or two, right? Like a random sort of second or two. No, I don't think they're hiding him. I I do think I saw a disturbing number of DiOara jerseys yesterday. Knicks fans are sick. I saw multiple DiORA jerseys at the parade yesterday, which tells you everything you need to know.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Like these two things. There was a moment probably where people got excited about him during the regular season. And two, you know, that's you could wind up with that if everything else is sold out.

SPEAKER_03 48:53

I saw I I went to a Lakers Knicks game out here two years ago, and a kid had a colic jersey. I thought that was sick. He's racist.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

He's the man.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

By far the funniest part of the parade was when he almost got arrested.

SPEAKER_04 49:10

Why is he wearing a 1993 Knicks championship shirt? What is happening? Oh, I didn't see that. Eastern Conference Champions or something. It's uh the Knicks didn't win the 1993 Eastern Conference. I don't I feel like we're living in an alternate reality. I don't know what's happening. Probably a good place for us to to finish up.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

My other my other hot take, which is very depressing, is not really a hot take, but it's a question, which is Are we sure Mike Brown is a good coach? Oh boy.

SPEAKER_04 49:41

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_03 49:44

I'm sure I'm sure he's not.

SPEAKER_04 49:45

I'm sure listen, I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna I I can't help but go back into this. I think there are some very serious, not talked about enough. Maybe they are Joe Torre, Mike Brown comparisons, right? Uh they dump Buck Show Alter, they bring in this, like, you know, this retread, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like, I think Joe Torrey was a in some ways a great coach, and in some ways, like, you know, fake made some very famous mistakes. And I think Mike Brown is very similar, but like, I think Mike Brown is a steady hand. And I think that's also what Joe Torre was. So the answer is yes and no. But your your willingness to ask a question like that on a day like today is is what I love about you.

SPEAKER_03 50:30

Well, I've grown to love you too, Ben. Thank you so much for joining us. I feel special. I feel I feel, you know, um, I feel honored. And and um, you know, if you need people for your cabinet in 38, you let me know. Okay, I don't think there's a presidential election in 38, but that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

I was hoping we would talk about the Nets. Wait, you hoping we would talk about what? The Nets, the Brooklyn Nets. Now's not the time. Shout out to the Brooklyn Nets. We properly spent our time on it. I agree.

SPEAKER_04 51:05

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

I had some Nets thoughts. Um next time. Big time, next time. Thank you, gentlemen.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

All right, uh awesome as usual. Love you both. Take care of yourselves. Happy Father's Day.

SPEAKER_04 51:20

Oh, same to you. Gotcha. Well deserved. All right, gents.

SPEAKER_07 51:24

All right, we can once again give a warm welcome to our mayor of New York City, Mayor Mandani.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

My fellow New Yorkers. For 53 long years we have watched and we have waited. We have watched from nosebleeds and through gritted teeth, on televisions in the windows of electronic stores, and from projectors balanced on fire escapes. We have watched alone in our apartments with our heads in our hands, shoulder to shoulder at bars where the signal flickers, alongside friends and family who we wish more than anything could be here today, sharing this moment. For 53 long years, we have watched the Knicks and we have waited. We waited as the memory of Willis Reed winning the championship on one leg grew fainter and fainter. We waited as Clyde came up clutch again and again. As John Starks dunked on Jordan and Patrick Ewing dunked on the Pacers. As Bernard King scored 60. As Charles Oakley pulled every rebound within reach. As Spike got in Reggie Miller's face. As Alan Houston put up a shot against Miami that hung in the air for an eternity. As Larry Johnson gave us the four-point playing heard around New York. As Starbury traded threes with Kobe and then sold sneakers every kid could afford. As Nate Robinson stuffed Yao Ming. As the city came alive watching Lind Sanity. And as Mello lived every Brooklyn dreams when he came home and made MSG feel like the center of the universe once again. We waited without ever knowing if this day would come, and we waited because we knew deep down in our sick suffering hearts that it would. New York City, this team has done it. The New York Knicks are NBA champions. We are here not just because of this team that will go down in New York City legend. I'm talking about guys like Ronaldo Bauchman, Marty Collins, Raymond Felton, Marcus Cambi, Christophe Sporzingis, J.R. Smith, Imag Schumper, and the whole Knickstape era. I'm talking about guys like Tony Douglas who I watched tie the single-game franchise record for threes from the stands in 2011. I'm talking about Amari who got this whole city fired up when he joined. And I'm talking about Jared Jeffries and Lance Thomas and Langston Galloway. Players who gave everything every game, even when a 20-win season was all that was in sight. This championship belongs to them too because championships aren't just built in one season. It belongs to Emmanuel Quickly, RJ Barrett, Dante DiVincenzo, Julius Randle. And also to a coach who helped lay the groundwork, Tom Thibodeau. Thanks to each of these New Yorkers and too many others to name, New York City has just had two of the most magical months in as long as any of us can remember. Over these past weeks, as the Knicks kept winning, our city has come together as one. Neighbors invited neighbors over. Strangers high-fived one another in the street. Subway conductors sang their announcements, and bus drivers dance behind the wheel. So often when this city comes together, it is because we are forced to, by a moment of tragedy or adversity. What a gift it is to be brought together by pure, unfiltered joy. For as long as we live, we will remember this feeling of a city together. A city alive. A city overcome by happiness. But let's not pretend that this was inevitable. If you will allow me, I want to travel back in time. Eight days. Game four. Nine minutes and 33 seconds left in the fourth quarter. The Knicks are down 20. The analytics guys, the sports betting companies, the pundits who watch from far away, they do what they do. They run the numbers. They calculate the odds. They write the Knicks off. They give the Spurs a 99.6% chance of winning the game. A 99.6% chance of tying up the series 2-2. Of reclaiming the momentum with the next game in San Antonio. A 99.6% chance of silencing the garden. Of another year of watching and waiting. But there is one thing that the pundits just don't get about this team. That they just don't get about this city. It is in that 0.4% that we go to work. It is in that 0.4% that Jalen Brunson, the same guy that so many said was too small, proves that not only is he good enough, he is the new standard for greatness. It is in that 0.4% that OG Ananobi watches the ball float from the top of the arc and start running toward the basket fingers reaching towards the heavens. It is in that 0.4% that Carl Anthony Towns finds the strength to mourn his mother and still pull in rebound after rebound. Make block after block. It is in that 0.4% that Jose Alvarado shows every kid. Growing up in public housing, that a son of Brooklyn and Queens can win for every one of the five Burrows. It is in that 0.4% that Mitch breaks his finger before game one and says, go get the tape. It's in that 0.4% that Josh Hart gets rebounds to break teams. That McCall Bridges proves he was worth every single draft pick. That Landry Shaman pulls up from downtown. That every one of these 18 players transforms the franchise. That Mike Brown keeps this team believing. Most of all, it's in that 0.4% that the Knicks do what New Yorkers have always done when we are told something is impossible. We find a way. We win. Standing here before before what feels like the entire city. There is a Jalen Brunson quote I can't stop thinking about. I'ma tell you. You are allowed to think about the worst possible scenario. But you gotta go out there and do something about it. When Jalen Brunson took that pay cut, my friends, that was doing something about it. Time after time we thought about the worst possible scenario. And time after time the Knicks went out there and did something about it. The Knicks did not just win for New York City. They won like New York City. What is New York if not your back up against the wall? A dream that feels just out of reach? A rent payment you don't know how you'll ever make? What is New York if not 99.6% of the world stacked against you? And who are New Yorkers if not people who hear those odds and smile? Who look at a 0.4% chance of success and ask, why are you giving me a head start? This is our city. This is our team. For 53 years we watched. For 53 years we waited. Now we've won. One last time, New York say it with me. Nixon! Nixon!