Bonus Episode: Romance Author Victoria Wilder Interview | Bourbon Boys, Writing Journey & Bookish Chaos

Surprise, you’re getting a BONUS episode this week!  Because we’re bringing back a fan-favorite author interview that mysteriously disappeared into the void (RIP old hosting platform 😤). But don’t worry, we fixed the audio, dusted it off, and now it’s back and better than ever.

In this re-release episode of What the Smut Are You Talking About, Cortney sits down with romance author Victoria Wilder for a deep dive into her writing journey, the evolution of her career, and all things Bourbon Boys. And let me tell you… this one hits different now knowing where she is today. Growth? We LOVE to see it.

Before we jump into the interview, we’re kicking things off with our usual chaotic catch-up:

•  Diet Coke addictions (yes, still thriving) 
•  Granola in tea… because why not 
• The Off-Campus TV adaptation excitement 
•  Reality TV chaos 
•  What we’re reading (hello accidental marriage + feral MMCs) 
•  What we’re watching + binge-worthy recs 

Then we roll into the main event…

In this episode with Victoria Wilder, we chat about:

•  Her journey from corporate burnout to full-time romance author 
•  How she found (and fell HARD for) the romance book world 
•  Writing romantic suspense, small town romance, and found family vibes 
•  Building the Bourbon Boys series and what makes it so addictive 
•  Indie publishing vs traditional paths 
•  Character creation, tropes she loves 
•  Balancing motherhood, creativity, and finding your identity again 

Plus, we talk spice, storytelling, and why her books stick with you long after you finish them.

If you love:

•  Romance books (spicy, emotional, unhinged… all of it) 
•  Bookish podcasts that feel like a chaotic girls’ night 
•  Behind-the-scenes author chats 
•  Small town romance + romantic suspense 
•  Found family and hate-to-love tension 

…then this episode is 1000% for you.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:31

What's up, Book Nerds? Welcome to What the Smut Are You Talking About podcast. We are a weekly romance book podcast where we talk about books and chaos. So yeah, pretty much anything goes.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Join us as we talk about the books we are reading, what crazy shenanigans are happening in our lives, and who knows, we may have some fun guests drop by.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

So grab your favorite snacky snack and your beverage of choice and come hang out and see what the smut we are talking about this week.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Hey,

– Life Updates + Diet Coke Chaos

SPEAKER_00 1:07

hey, what's going on, Mary? Not much. Cornee, what's going on? How's the uh Diet Coke obsession of the day going? It's it's going good.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

I'm getting better.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

I've had one Diet Coke so far today, so I um had to grab a bottle of water because instead of pouring my granola into my yogurt, I poured it into my hot tea. Oh no! Oh, can't make this stuff up. They were sitting side by side, and I just opened the granola and dump it in, and it legit took me a hot minute to realize that I had granola in my tea.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Well, happy Friday to you.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

I know. Did you see the latest off-campus trailer that just released?

SPEAKER_00 2:01

The what the one that's on Amazon Prime that you can watch, the whole full-length like

– Book & TV News: Off-Campus Series Hype

SPEAKER_00 2:06

trailer. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Yes. Like, oh my gosh. I'm even more excited. Like, May can't get here fast enough. And they had like a little, I don't know if it's the way they edit it, or maybe they just edited this on purpose to give us Dean and Allie. But I'm like, man, they're already teasing this shit. I was like, I am not prepared for this.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

I know it. Oh my gosh, it was an amazing trailer, and I can't wait to see how how they handle this compared to the book.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

Yes, I'm locked in, ready to go. Honestly, I think this weekend I might I have to look and see if I'm caught up on my podcast reads, but I think I'm going to do a reread for at least of the deal.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Same, same, same. I

– Reality TV + Pop Culture Updates

SPEAKER_00 3:00

need to, I need to read, I need to read again. It's but it's been a hot minute.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Yeah, it's it's been a minute for me too. So I was like, I will, and then our friend Katie, she just started reading the deal for the first time to be prepared for the TV show.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Oh yay. It's like we will have to have like a watch party with the three of us.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

Yes. I'm like, I'm so excited for this journey for her because just to watch someone go through the emotions of reading this book for the first time, I'm also very jealous because what I would give to read this book again for the first time. Oh my gosh, no kidding. And then what else recently has happened? The Hulu event happened and they announced two of the newest casting for Dancing with the Stars. Um, I'm really excited because you have Mora Higgins from Love Island, and um, she was also recently on The Traitors. And if I can convince you to watch any type of reality TV show, Mary, it would be The Traitors. It is on. Listen, I feel like you would like this. And it's like you don't even have to know who these people are. They it just makes for good TV because they all come from like some type of reality background, but they throw them in this like Scottish castle and they make them do like all these crazy challenges. And basically, it starts off with the host Alan picking so many traders. Oh wow. And the traitors are supposed to stay secret, so it's basically these people trying to figure out who the traitors are. And this last season, it was by far the best season of traitors. So yeah, Mara was on it and she made it to the final two. And uh, spoiler alert, sorry. I don't care. Spoiler, but I won't give anything else, but I'm so glad that they are bringing her on Dancing with the Stars because I need more of her. And then Sierra from Summer House is gonna be a contestant on Dancing with the Stars as well. So super excited about that. And from the Bravo world, I don't know if you ever like heard news of like Vanderpum Rolls and all that stuff because it's been on for like ever. I have heard of it, yeah. Okay, well, Stasi, you know, she was on from like season one to like season six or seven, I believe. But she is getting her own TV show, so I'm really excited to see her back. And it's gonna be called House of Stasi. So super excited. I think that comes out this summer, if I'm not mistaken. What um, what's going on in your life?

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Oh, not a whole lot. Travel basketball practice has started, so that takes up like two evenings out of the week. We have a lot of house here, so I haven't watched any well, okay. I take that back. My kid was at a sleepover, so my husband and I binged pretty much the remaining of season two for shrinking. So we're moving on to season three, and we stayed up past midnight watching so many episodes. So we hadn't done that in a long time, and it is still it's it's so hilarious. It is just the most hilarious, like I can't even describe it. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Well, you just got your email about meet and greet cute, so that's exciting. You're going.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Super exciting! I know. I got off of the wait list, so I have a general admin admit ticket, which is fine. I put that I would take either general or VIP. And I'm just mainly excited to go uh there. One of the authors that I beta read for is gonna be there. And so I'm thrilled to meet her in person.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

So if you're wondering why we're doing a double dip this week, we wanted to re-release an old episode that got deleted. So you get us twice this week.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Yay! Which is fabulous. You will get to see Courtney shine and do her thing with our re-release of her interview with Victoria Wilder. We are going to cover a little bit of our usual what we are reading on the front end and what we are watching before we kick it off to that episode. But I do hope you'll tune in because we love all the old episodes and are sad that they were gone and deleted. So we are going to sprinkle them in with our unhinged chaos throughout the season.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Yes, super excited about this. And it's so cool because you know, I still talk to a lot of the authors that I recorded with in the past. And so just to see their growth from, you know, one or two years ago is so amazing. So, especially Victoria. So, like I was like getting choked up, like editing or because I went back and did re-edits um just because the original audio kept on messing up, so I fixed it. So you're welcome. But I was like at one point tearing up just like to see where Victoria is now from when we had that conversation. So I really hope you guys stick around and listen to that older episode because it is it is a good one.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

And she is amazing. If you've never read her before or met her before, just an absolutely wonderful human being. I've met her twice and just such a kind person, talented author, and so much fun to chat with.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

When we recorded this episode, she was, I think, still writing book two of the bourbon boys. So it's, and you know, now she has a trad deal for the bourbon boys. There, you can buy them in your your targets in your bookstores. But this summer she has rumors and whiskey um set to come out. I think June 16th, if I'm not mistaken. And man, I'm obsessed with these covers. The color scheme, like, I love every single bit of it. And I did sign up for her ALC. So um, I really hope I get it.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Awesome. I hope so too.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Well, speaking of reading,

– What we're Reading

SPEAKER_02 9:34

what are you currently reading, Miss Mary?

SPEAKER_00 9:37

I am reading Run Game by CL Rose. Are you obsessed? Yes, I am 64% in and absolutely obsessed. Like, okay, so I just have to. She makes a statement and she's like, we're just going to put it in a box, lock that bitch up, and donkey kick it right into the ocean. And if that is not how I feel about a lot of things, I'm like, we're just gonna put that in a box and shelve it. Emotions, we'll shel them. Like responsibilities, we'll shove it. And then she does another one. She was like, I'm in shock. I've never been spanked before. And between you and me, I didn't hate it. Love that. And then he, of course, has his lines where he's like, What I want, he growls into my ear, is to celebrate my wedding night inside my wife. So it's an accidental marriage trope. And then he also has the other one where he's like, She tastes like my fucking wife. And I'm like, uh, melt. Yes, please. Like, like, uh, the way he is feral for her, and it is total he falls first. It is like forced proximity, you know, they get married in Vegas, and just uh, I'm here for it. So I'm excited to finish reading it. I'm definitely read out of order, but we're unhinged over here. So we don't we don't believe in order. And so this is book two. Book one is Hot Route, which is his best friend Blaze and Dia from book two, her best friend Mads, their book one.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

So yes, I actually read that one. So I've read book one of each of her series. So you got book one down, and I got book two down. Well, I am reading, I have about 10% left. It's book two of the mindfuck series. It's called Sun Tracked by Abby. Yeah. This is actually a reread for me because I I read the series, I want to say a couple years ago, but I did the, you know, the ebook version and it was on my Libby. So I was like, okay, yes, please, I'm gonna listen to it. So, but I think, you know, um Hoopla just gave me my bonus borrows for the month. So I think after I finish that, I'm gonna move on to Dirty Little Secret by Kendall Ryan. Don't know what it's about, but it judging by the cover, I'm gonna say it's either billionaire or like workplace romance, but we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

That will be that will be a lot of fun. If you didn't know, so I love I love the mindfuck series. I love so Stabby is the pen name for CM Owens who passed away. Yes, um, and she was my unicorn author that I would have loved to meet in person. The Sterling Shore series, which is totally different than the Mindfuck series. The Sterling Shore is her rom-com series. That's where I first met and fell in love with her. Pieces of Summer is her a book she wrote under CM Owens and is hands down my favorite book. Like one of my one of my top reads of all time. But but the mindfuck series is it is being adapted into a series.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Like yes, I heard that.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yes. So the level of excitement over that, I'm so I hate that she's not around to see all of this happening, but I am so excited to watch watch this come come to life and come into a series.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Yes, me, me too. I'm super excited. It's

– What we're Watching

SPEAKER_02 13:52

it's very dark and twisted, but it's got a lot of dark humor with it for those who haven't read the series. But basically, if you took like criminal minds and made it a rom-com, I feel like that's like the best way to describe it.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

It is, it is, it is, and I love like I love that about her that her humor, no matter what she wrote in, her humor just comes across. And it is, it's so unique and and original. And I will say she is she is one of the authors that I collect all of the pretty special editions of. So I know by half so so what are so that is what you're reading and what you're diving into after. What are you what are you watching?

SPEAKER_02 14:41

Well, I'm really excited because Netflix started dropping season two of Million Dollar Secret. And I love this show. It's a game show, it's a good one. If you haven't watched it, like go look for it. Go look for it on Netflix. Season one was great. Start with season one because uh it's one, I mean, you can definitely watch it out of order, but definitely start with season one just because it gives you like the dynamic of the show. But it's basically trying to it's it's kind of like traders. You're trying to figure out who the millionaire is, but it's with like normal, everyday average people, it's really good. So season two just dropped. I think there's the first six episodes are out right now, and then by the time this airs, I think the remaining episodes will be dropped, or at least another four. Summerhouse is about to wrap up. They just recorded the reunion yesterday, and like some of it's already leaked and the internet's going crazy over it.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Um can we like what is up with people leaking good things and ruining them? Because uh you saying that that somebody's already leaked parts of it, somebody went uh out and leaked the entire movie for the uh Aang The Last Airbender that they're doing that they that they had shut up. Oh my gosh. No, they they released the entire thing and and people were wanting it in theaters. Well, now the only way you can watch it is if you have Paramount Plus. And I don't have Paramount Plus, and I'm like, come on, people, like why why are you ruining this for an entire fandom that has been foaming at the mouth when if they made it, if they put it in a movie theater, I guarantee you they would make their money. But somebody, somebody leaked it. It's all like I have had to watch my scrolling on Instagram. I'm like, nope, nope, stop it, nope. I'm like, I don't want to see it, I don't want anything ruined. I don't want, I don't want the spoilers. Like, I don't want them. I just I want to watch it in its purest form.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Well, I know you mentioned earlier you and your husband stayed up late last night.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Or are y'all watching anything else, or is that the only we're doing our usual, like we're keeping up, keeping up to date with the rookie, keeping up to date with Boston Blue as the new episodes come out. We're but that's that's about it. So, listeners, join in all our fun, and let us know what you're reading, what you're watching. Do you have any unhinged parenting stories that you're willing to share, or just unhinged parenting advice? Drop it below and we will be sure to like, comment, and reply. Yes, and maybe even read some on air if they're unhinged enough.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Well, we will see you on Tuesday for a regular episode, but stick around and enjoy this interview with Victoria Wilder.

– Victoria Wilder Interview

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Hey Victoria, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 18:01

I'm good. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 18:02

I'm doing well, just hanging out, relaxing on this beautiful Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Beautiful but cold. That's really where I am too. Well, tell us a little bit about yourself. I am a romance author, obviously, which is why I'm here. Uh gosh, my my life as a romance author didn't start that long ago. This is a second uh career for me. I'm in my early 40s, and um, after I had my second kid decided to have a real big think about what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. I lived in corporate world for a really long time. I worked in video game accessories doing PR and marketing, and I was super burned out. And, you know, the worlds shut down for a little while, and it was, you know, really forced me to hit the very end of Netflix, you know, the end of the Netflix universe. And I was like, what do I do now? Um so I started reading. And I, you know, the funny thing is I've never been a huge reader. I was a have always been a cut corners as a as a kid, as a young adult kind of person. So like choose your own adventure novels, though that was my game. Like I really had never found the genre that I loved. And then lo and behold, there's this world of romance that I didn't know existed. And then just like when I I like don't, I don't go, I go from like zero to obsess. Like, I want to buy the shirt, like all the things. And that 1000% happened reading romance. So I started reading really heavily. And um, I had always done some form of writing, whether it was fictional for myself or marketing and press releases. So I've always written in some capacity, but I I never really thought I would publish a fictional book, and then decided, you know what, let me see if I can really do this. Wrote my first book, Peaks of Color, and then, you know, had been involved in the bookstogram community a little bit, made a lot of really amazing friends with other readers, but also with some authors too. I was able to be on some very cool women arc teams and was able to find the right people that fit for me. So, like an editor and a cover designer. And all of a sudden I was doing this thing where I was like, wow, I could really do this. This is amazing. You know, I don't need the permission of someone telling me, is it good enough? Because if people read it and they enjoy it, then maybe it is good enough. So I did that in 2022, published my first book. And um now I am, you know, five, five days for five days away from publishing my seventh. So I um, you know, I here I am, like I can officially feel like I can say I'm a romance author. Um, have real published works out into the universe, and it has become, you know, an entire personality and you know, a world that I really truly adore being in. Um, so yeah, like snapshot view of who I am from the from a work perspective. But from a life perspective, I'm a mom of two kids. I have a really amazing partner who 1000% believes in what I'm doing. So I feel super lucky for that. And uh yeah, and now I'm just sort of chasing, you know, the blips of time in between writing so that I can read a little bit and find something I really love so much, and then you know, start writing the next book. So um, yeah, that's that that's me and a big giant long-winded snapshot.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

I love it. It's always like so intimidating to get that question asked. Like, oh tell me, tell me about me. Like, what do I say? Which detail do we want here? So I'm an oversharer. And then like when I get to like, like if you ask me something that I just keep on, and it's just like you never know what you're gonna get. I put my foot in my mouth constantly.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Yeah, I like to do that too. I do that often. Honestly, I'm um I I am not usually an oversharer. I like love to listen. Like I love when other people are oversharing. I love that. However, when we're talking books, I love to talk books. And I and for something that like like I wish I had, I wish I was that person that was like young and really read so much and just like consumed stories because I'm like in this, like I'm in like the mid the one third part of my life now. That's what I'd like to consider. Least. And I've I'm sad that I won't be able to read all of the books that exist that I want to read. Like I genuinely get like anxiety about the idea that I won't have enough time to read all the good things out there. Um, you know?

SPEAKER_02 23:25

So you just sort of you just reminded me of that scene in Gilmore Girls where it's like Rory was saying, I want to say it was like Gail's library for the first time. And she's like, there's so many millions of books in here, and I've only read two.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Exactly. So I feel that. I totally feel that. Um, yeah, it's um, so yeah, so like I could be super long-winded when it's when we're talking about romance books because you know, when you like talk about like a thing that you love and know a little bit about, it's fun.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Oh, I get it. A starting podcast for it. So you get it.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

You understand.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

You understand. What's funny is like I never like wanted to start a podcast. Like, I love podcasts, I love listening to them, but I'm not like a huge social butterfly. Like, I have my moments, but it this idea just happened, and my husband, like, I come up with crazy ideas all the time. I'm like, but what if I do this? And so I came home one day and I was like, I think I'm gonna start a podcast. And he's like, What? I love it. I think it's great. Yeah, yeah. So it I just took it and ran with it, and here we are.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

You do the thing, you know. I think I feel like at some point in your like adult life, you like stop asking permission and you're like, you know what? Like, if I want to do something that's gonna make me happy, I really just need to stop asking permission and just really do it.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Um, and I kind of like lost myself during motherhood. And so this is like something for me. I see.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Yeah, I feel you. I totally feel you. I think I think the I think if people don't feel that way, um, they're lucky and I'll be surprised, right? I feel like there's so much of you that changes when you become a mom, and then that's your identity. And you know, then I remember having this moment where thinking, like, yeah, I love that, but also there's so much more to me than that than that. Like, there's so much more. I want to be more than than that. And not that I don't want to do that like hella good, but yeah, like finding your finding an identity outside of motherhood is really difficult to do. And like, you gotta find your things.

SPEAKER_02 25:42

Yeah, for sure. I got to meet you in Nashville at Romance Era. So, what have you been up to since then?

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Because I haven't got to be around yeah, so Romance Era, by the way, was a freaking fabulous show. I had a blast at that one. They did uh they did a top-notch show, in my opinion. Um, since then, I think while I was there, I had just released Bourbon and Lies, which was the first book in my new series. Before that, I had done a four-book series about three brothers and one sister who ran an outdoor sporting company in Colorado. And it was a it's a small town romance. Really love kind of living in that small town found family vibe. And then had just released Bourbon and Lies when I was at Romance Era. So I had probably been starting to write Bourbon and Secrets at that point. That was in June. And I spend the majority of the summer writing that book, rewriting that book, editing the crowd of that book. Um, and uh, and just gearing up for what the second book looked like. When I finished Bourbon and Lies, I had this feeling in the like the like the center of my chest where I was like, this feels different to me than the last four books. And I felt really proud of those, that first series. But something about the Bourbon and Lies book just felt different to me. Um, it just felt really good and I was excited to see where it would go. And it so has been and still continues to surprise the crap out of me how much people have enjoyed that story. And I think having that little like peak of success in a book really like really hit me hard. And I was like, oh no, now I gotta do the next one better. And like that's always been my that's been my goal with doing this. Like, if each book could just get a little bit better, like that's the push for me. Like, of course, success in this looks like a bunch of different things, right? Like, right, like turning it into a business, being able to actually make money doing it, being able to do it so that it can pay for itself, right? And then maybe making money doing it. But the creative part of me really wants books that are gonna like stick that just that are sticky, you know, that stick to your bones a little bit. And it's not that's not gonna be the case for everyone, but if I can leave people finishing my book and still thinking about it later, whether that's like a character or a place or a situation, then I feel like, all right, I did something good, like I did something really good here. So like throw that pressure on top. And it's really my own, my own pressure. So I was dealing with a lot of can you make this next book as good, if not better, than the one that has just been doing very well for you? Um, it's a lot to live up to. Um well, we'll have to circle back. So that's what I've never been up to. That's what I've been up to, is just writing the hell out of this story. Um, and then getting ready for the third one. So yeah, that's that's how amazing.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Yeah, my book club chat is like blowing up, talking about Urban Elize. So I'm like, I haven't read it yet, so don't spoil it for me.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

I've got a a bunch of your girls that are reading the advanced reader copy. So I'm like, I'm like psyched to see what happens like once it comes out and more people get to see it. Cause I because the the fun part about writing romantic suspense is that there's there's always someone has a theory, you know, like who, like what, like what's the twist? What did I am I gonna see it coming? Like, and that's what's been really fun about writing romantic suspense is having that like additional layer, that additional plot layer, which just also make it makes it more fun to talk about in book clubs and big groups and stuff for sure.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

Yeah, like literally right before we started recording, your name like popped up on the Discord chat. I was like, oh I know.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Thank you for making me feel very cool for a second there.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

I myself just finished um the ALC of December Midnight. So yeah, I'll be working on my review here in the yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Yeah, I didn't um I loved it. You know, yeah, December Midnights um, you know, is the ha is my holiday novella. I released it last year. So ebook and paperback last year. And then when I was putting, when I was starting my research for doing the audiobook for Bourbon and Lies, have my narrators all set, but their recording time was gonna be a little while because I wanted really specific narrators for that. And I was like, maybe I've got a little time to do, like, what if I breathed a little extra life into December midnights? And my producer at One Night Stand was like, yeah, she's like, You've you've been bit by the audio bug. So I was like, Katie, let's find good people for this. It's not fantasy, it's just like a little more of a like a magic winter solsticey type vibe.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

Yes. I was not expecting that. So that was a nice surprise. I love I loved everything about it. Oh, that makes me happy. It was such, it was such because I'm typically not a novella reader. Like, cause the pacing is usually all wrong for me. The only novellas I gravitate towards is Christmas novellas. And so I saw yours pop up.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

I was like, ah, I got a mindset. Yeah, novellas. Um, some I I have some author friends that can like bang out a novella and it is like an easy ride for them. And I tend to be a long-winded writer anyway. Like most of my books are in like the high threes, low 400 page count. So when my editor was like, well, 35,000 words is a sweet spot. So that's around like 110 to 120 pages, maybe. I was like, oh no, how am I gonna develop? How is there gonna be character development in that, in that tiny little area? So I really I pushed it, it's 140 pages in print. But yeah, you know, you do the best you can to like, you know, feel like these people are having some sort of growth in a very small novella, where you know, there are other novellas that it's like a specific time period, right? Like an evening or something, and that just it makes it a little bit easier to tackle something like a shorter story than. But yeah, I give I give people that do novellas consistently so much credit because it's they're hard. Like that was hard for me. What made you decide to write your first book? Um, so it was, I think it was a lot of like timing and circumstance that pushed it forward. I had been toying with the idea of writing for a long time, but there was never like there was never like a push to do it. And then I'd been involved in the bookstagram community, like I mentioned before. I was able to like have kind of this this direct line to some authors that I had worked on their art team for and ask real questions what it looked like to publish. Um, and I think the most intimidating part was always like optioning your book and query letters to publishers and agents and you know, getting that approval of whether or not you it was good enough. And I think that removing that barrier to entry for me was exactly what I needed in order to say, let's let's do this. Like if you can build a community and have people that believe in your work, then maybe you don't need the approval of somebody that tells you whether or not you're good enough to do it. So um that was sort of the mentality I took. Um, I think that's the mentality a lot of independently published authors take, right? Which is, you know, write the story, build the community, sell the books instead of, you know, write the book, ask for approval, see if you're good enough, and then build the community. Um and that's, you know, they're, I think they're, I think everybody's author's journey is a little bit different, but that's where I began. It was like, let's see, let's see if we can do this. And I I had some very like prolific authors give me some very sage advice about you know, setting real deadlines for things. Abby Millsaps was one of them. I'll forever be grateful for her for just saying to me, I love Abby. She's wonderful. For saying to me, you know what? You need to make a plan. You set your deadlines, you do your things. Uh, you know, you treat this like you're you hold yourself accountable. And you know, I think everybody probably has one book in them at least. But if you want to be a working author, you also need to think about, well, what does that look like? Because you're not gonna, granted, there are some people that will write one book and they will become madly successful in that one book. But most, most authors need to keep writing the next story, right? If you're a working author, if you're a working published author, you keep you keep writing. You don't stop at just one. And I think it was really understanding that, you know, if I was going to do this, that meant really doing it in a way where it was more than just one story and putting it out there and saying I could do it, but actually believing myself that I can continue to do it after that first book was released.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

So when you go to, I guess, plot or write a book, like how how do you build your characters? Like, do you does it just come to you? Is it inspiration from a real life person? Do you just get your ideas off of Pinterest? Like it just.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Um, I a lot of times will think of a situation, like an actual scene with a character, maybe first. If I'm if I'm building out a character, a character profile, I definitely will start building a playlist on Spotify. I'll try to get the vibes first. Um, and then I'll look through things like Pinterest. Um, I have a a cover designer, illustrator friend who who draws and paints these insanely beautiful characters, and I've like pulled a lot of inspiration from her designs, you know, just on like feature sets at least. Um, but I think it's a lot of like, you know, you think about characters from movies that you've loved. When I started writing uh Urban and Lies, I really wanted, I really approached this series as, okay, I want this series to be my breakout series. I would love for this series to do do big things for me. But if it's not going to, then I want to at least feel like I went out with a bang. You know, like I I really did the thing. And my favorite, my favorite movie of all time, since I was, you know, probably too young for it to be a favorite movie, is Romancing the Stone. Um, and it's like this crazy 80s movie with Kathleen Turner and Michael Douglas and Danny DeVito. And it's about this romance author who goes on this journey to save her sister from these crazy people. And she follows a treasure map and she gets lost and stuck in the jungle. And it's all these like crazy things. Um, and her name is yeah, her name is Joan Wilder, which is where I got the last name for my pen name. And it I just thought, like, if there could be components of that story woven into this book, I would feel so, I would, it would feel like a part of me. So, you know, the book is not like a retelling of that story. There's just little pieces of it that are there, you know, a little bit of like that character style. Snakes are really important in that movie, and they are an important component for Bourbon and Lies. So there's just like pieces of it that I like pulled from that felt, that felt like, felt like part of me building the story. So where do I get my inspiration from? Kind of all over. You know, sometimes it'll be, it'll be like uh an image I see on on Instagram and it'll spark like what would my character say to this? And that'll just like create like the dialogue in my line. And a lot of times I do very loose, I do outlining. Um, I'm trying to work on, at least for book three in this series, I'm trying to work on doing a more detailed plot line um to help hopefully help me move along a little more consistently as I write in the next book. But a lot of times I'm learning who my characters are as I'm writing a scene. I'll have an idea. Like I knew for Bourbon and Lies, I knew that my male main character, Grant, was going to be very like a closed off, like almost like a grumpy. Um he had like a lot of these really hard things happen to him to him in the beginning of the story, and you kind of like know that that's why. But his softer side didn't really come through until I started writing the scenes with the FM scene. So, like a lot of times I'm learning who these characters are as I'm writing. Um, and a lot of times some of the things that I write don't end up making it into the story because it was more just like a discovery component for me. Um, and maybe it didn't push the story long enough, but it needed to be written so that I knew how these characters maybe operated or what their arc was as the story moved on. What would be your favorite trope or tropes to write? Um, well, I don't know if you could call it a trope or a subgenre, but I really am loving romantic suspense. I'm enjoying writing that very much. And I also very much enjoy small town. Um, it's so much fun to build out a small town as a writer and found family. I really like that found family vibe and building like character relationships, some that already exist before you before you're introduced to them, you know, what that what that looks like beforehand. So those are probably like my standard favorites, right? Small town, found family. But like as far as like the couple is concerned, I just love writing banter and like what that can do for chemistry. So like that hate to love vibe is one of my favorites. It doesn't even necessarily have to be enemies to lovers, but that hate to love, that animosity at the beginning is just so much fun. So that's probably my favorite. Yes. Well, on the flip side of that, which is your favorite tricks to read about? Oh, um, well, I read literally everything. I will read everything as long as there's and I'll read I'll read any genre, but like really like romance is my favorite. So if I want to finish a book, there it's probably got has has to be romance. But I love like I love a good age gap. I'll read some taboo romance, I'll read enemies to lovers. I like everything, truthfully. I'll scroll through Instagram or TikTok and be like, oh, okay, I guess that's what I'm reading next. Like I'm those under person. Ads? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Ads get me every single time. Like when any anybody comes up to me, like, just because like I talk to so many authors on the daily, and they're like, Well, how how can I how can I get my book out there? I'm like, meta ads. I'm like, if you're not doing it, you need to be doing it.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Yeah, or just like a really good real hook or a TikTok hook, honestly, they're just they're golden. I, you know, I I'm always like, I'm always thinking, like, oh, I'll throw that on my TBR, and then it's I'm such a mood reader, like I'm personally such a mood reader that if I unless I'm really excited for a book to release, like I have a couple of author friends where I just like I gobble up whenever. And if I'm writing in that genre that they're that that book came out in, I'll usually hold off on reading it until I'm done writing and then I'll go back to it. But that's like the rare occasion that I like follow a TBR. Usually it's just whatever mood hook has spoken to me.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Yeah. You should say my Audible wishes. Oh, I'm sure like it grows daily. I'm pretty sure I'm up into the 300s now. It's that's a lot. There's like I'm gonna say at least 17 pages.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

So I um just gotten into audiobooks. Um, like I I like I love audible reading. I can read on a Kindle like any day, like multitask, which is so pathetic, but like I quote unquote multitask while reading, um, which is basically like I read and pretend like I'm doing something else. But audiobooks are great, and I finally like I like I like finally got over the hump of being able to listen while I drive too. Like for a while, I would start, I would start an audiobook in my car and I would get so distracted. I'm like, this can't be safe. Um, but I'm like, I don't know, maybe like my brain has rewired since and I yeah, so I'm like finally enjoying audio. And maybe it's because like I felt like I needed to because I I'm producing my books, my bourbon and my bourbon boys series will be in audio. So I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna play in this world. I need to be, I need to know what the hell I'm doing and what I'm listening to and who I enjoy, whose voice, you know, really speaks to me, that kind of thing. So yeah, I'm like, I finally like stopped just dipping my toe in audiobook world and I'm finally like, you know, face person.

SPEAKER_02 42:24

Yeah. So I discovered audio when I was on maternity leave uh with my firstborn, and it's like just hormones just like changed who I was as a person. And like I could not take my eyes off my baby. Like, I was so afraid that something was gonna happen if I wasn't like constantly like paying attention to him. So I was like, but I'm missed reading. So that's how I got into audiobooks, and I haven't stopped since.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

And they're so done. Like there's so there's and there's so many ways to listen to them, right? It just depends on what you know, what that author or um or how it's or how it's produced. But I I don't know. There's just so many, there's so much to choose from now. I think it's so nice, you know. It's not just um it's not just traditionally published books any longer that are on your um audible sub list. There's so many, so many more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

I don't honestly, I don't think I have a single tru Trad published book on my wish. Oh, well, I take that back. I have one because it's on for pre-order, but uh because I'm I'm wait, I'm impatiently waiting for Onyx Storm to come out. But um other than that, it's it's all indie people. I love it. If you could go back and relive the experience of publishing your first book, what, if anything, would you do differently?

SPEAKER_01 43:40

I don't know that I would do anything differently because I feel like I learned a lot that time. I think I didn't hate I did I really like that story. Like the two main characters I think were really smart. It was a good way to kick off a series. I don't think I would change anything about it. I do have a lot of um author colleagues that do, they they really they write all of their books in that series and then release it closer together so that allows people to really enjoy the series at a quicker pace. And that was just mind-boggling to me. Like I just wrote a book, like how am I gonna not release it? And I still feel that way. And I'm just like, like, what? You want to know the information? Let me give it to you. And it's like not ready for ready to do that yet. So I mean, maybe I would have held it so that I there was less time in between books, but truthfully, I don't think I'd change a thing because I feel I feel pretty good with where I'm at right now. And I think I wouldn't be yeah, I don't think I would be in, I would, I don't think I would be feeling this way had I done that first book any differently.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

Well, that's amazing. I love that. Well, go ahead and tell us a little bit about your sure.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

So Bourbon and Secrets releases December 6th. It is the second book in a three book series, but they are standalones. They're interconnected, which means each book can live on its own. However, they are interconnected by a piece. Um, the piece in this series um it are three brothers that own a bourbon distillery in a place called Fiasco, Kentucky. And there's a little bit of suspense for each one, but they Each get their happily ever after at the end of each book. Book two is the middle brother, Lincoln Fox. He's a single dad, widower, has two young girls, and is the master distiller at Fox Bourbon. And he, uh, along with my female main character, this intriguing woman uh named Faye Callaway, have what is absolutely the worst night of their life and meet under very interesting circumstances. And because of that, she blackmails him and he threatens her and forces her to leave fiasco. And then five years later is where the story picks up. And she is in town as a burlesque dancer, and he doesn't trust a single thing from her. Um, and he knows that she's kind of up to no good. And it's, you know, it's her getting to back to her hometown, her trying to mend a relationship with her sister, and also trying to kind of stay out of the Fox brothers' way because she knows them. She is not their favorite person, but she is dancing burlesque at Lincoln's best friend's bar. So it's inevitable that they meet up with each other again. The story is really, it's a lot about mending relationships. It's a lot about sisters. Lincoln has two daughters, Lily and Lark. So they're like a great little bit of comic relief throughout the book. The the relationship between the female main character, Faye, and her sister Maggie, is a bit of a growth throughout. And that was a lot of fun to write. If anybody hasn't read me before, are definitely spicy. So, you know, there's like open door, delicious sex scenes, and because it's at a bourbon distillery, there's always some form of what I like to call bourbon play. And you know, everyone gets there happily ever after, but it takes a little bit to get there. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

I am impatiently waiting for bourbon and lies to hit audio. Yeah. So I've been, I've been holding out, but like I said, all my friends keep on talking about it. I'm like, shh. I know, I'm excited.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

And like Bourbon and Lies on audio will come out earlier next year. There won't be as much of a wait time for bourbon and secrets to come out on audio because I was smart and said, okay, let's let's start booking out our narrators that we want. I'm excited for the for the audio to kick in too, because I think it's it's an entirely new universe of listener. What's up next for you? Well, you already know, you've heard me say this a thousand times that Bourbon and Secrets releases this week. Um, so that's coming, uh, coming up soon. And then I will I've already started outlining um Bourbon Improved, which is the third book in that series. That book will release next spring. So that'll be my focus between now and then. Um, I am doing some events throughout the year next year, which I'm excited about to finally like, you know, be out there more and meeting readers and new readers. But yeah, my focus is just finishing out the Bourbon Boys series with the bang over the next, you know, handful of months.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Yes, and I can't wait to see you. It's gonna be so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

I know I'm excited. I'm gonna go back to Tennessee.

SPEAKER_02 48:11

Yeah. Um, I was sad that romance era wasn't going to happen as again as well.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

No, I I submitted to be there again because it was such a great event. It really was. That's like that's how you do it. It really was. That's how you do events where you make like it more than just the signing. It's about, you know, doing other fun things, you know, with readers and yeah, I'm excited to go back to go back to Tennessee for a little bit. Well, before we go, please tell our listeners where they can find you. You can find me pretty much any of the social platforms. Um, I'm probably most active on Instagram. I'm author Victoria Wilder on just about everything. If Facebook is your universe, I have a reader group um to chat about all things Urban Boys and beyond. Um but then you can find me. I have a website if you're looking for signed copies of books or other merch. Um, but yeah, if you want to like slide into my DMs and talk books anytime.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

And as always, you can catch us causing chaos over on Instagram at What the Smut Podcast and me personally at onpoint digital services.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

And I'm over at Instagram at Courtney Leanne. If you want to join us for a chat, there's a form linked in our show notes. So be sure to fill that out because we would love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

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SPEAKER_02 49:36

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