Ep. 4 | Christie Tarantino-Dean: When Healthy Board Culture Makes Innovation Possible

What does it take to lead a complex scientific association through rapid change and actually come out ahead? In this episode of Built to Connect, Jackson speaks with Christie Tarantino-Dean, CEO of the Institute of Food Technologists and former head of Association Forum, to explore what great association leadership looks like when the stakes are high and the pace of change is relentless.

Christie shares how decades of watching associations grow — and struggle — shaped the board culture she built at IFT, why the best innovation often starts with a simple concierge service, and how a Jobs-To-Be-Done research framework led to the launch of CoDeveloper, IFT's own AI-powered tool for food science product developers.

And she leaves us with a reminder that every association leader building something new needs to hear: "You need the operational thinkers, but you also need some that can dream of what is possible."

Topics covered:

• From Association Forum to IFT: the lessons that stuck
• Board governance: what to model and how to build credibility fast
• IFT's board onboarding process: setting members up from day one
• From member research to AI product: the origin story of CoDeveloper
• Planting seeds: how IFT connects young people to a career that matters
• Beyond the annual meeting: what member engagement can actually look like

Transcript

Christie Tarantino-Dean 0:02

Associations take on the personality and the culture of the profession that they represent. And if we wanna move things forward, we have to understand that and then find ways that we can productively work together. My team, not me, brought forward this idea of what if we use AI to get people that information that they need quickly. It is really understanding the value that you bring. There are other AI tools in the product development space but they don't have the scientific underpinning of it, and that, to me, is really understanding how could you leverage what is the value in the environment that we're in today?

Jackson Boyar 0:48

Welcome back to Built to Connect. I'm your host, Jackson Boyar, co-founder and CEO of Rally Board. Today, I'm joined by Christie Tarantino Dean, who is the CEO of the Institute of Food Technologists. Christie is a bit of a luminary in the association world. She led Association Forum in Chicago, which gave her a front row seat to how many of the largest associations in the country grow. And on today's episode, we delve into board culture and onboarding. We talk about making bets on innovation, including IFT's AI product co-developer, which is a really interesting case study on driving innovation and investment in new business models. And Christie is just a fantastic example of what great leadership looks like at associations. Maybe we can start with your experience at Association Forum representing so many associations. What are some of the patterns you recognize that inform how you lead IFT today?

Christie Tarantino-Dean 1:55

Thanks. Thank you for having me. Yes, Association Forum was certainly a highlight of my career when I was fortunate enough to get that opportunity. I'd been a volunteer with that organization from the time that I moved to Chicago in 2000. And the real benefit to me, and I think I, I learned so much in that organization because we had CEOs and staff members from some of the largest associations in the world and a real diversity of types of organizations. And I would call myself a lifelong learner and very curious, so to be able to understand how someone took an association, for example Steve Lieber, who was the CEO of the Health Information Management Systems Society, was my board chair. When he joined that organization, it was roughly a $10 million organization, and when he left, it was, well over $100 million. And to have that opportunity to understand how that organization grew, how he built it, learn from people like that, I think have really influenced me and what we're doing at IFT today. And the passion and the missions of all these organizations and how we serve a greater good in the association space. We work hard, so I always like to say we have to feel good about working this hard especially in times like we're in today. So, it was just a wonderful opportunity to learn from so many people in our community.

Jackson Boyar 3:32

And to witness that type of transformative growth within just one of your members, I'm sure that wasn't the case for

Christie Tarantino-Dean 3:37

everybody

Jackson Boyar 3:38

but you probably started to observe patterns of the CEO to board relations

Christie Tarantino-Dean 3:44

that enabled

Jackson Boyar 3:45

an organization to be successful. I'm sure many association leaders come to you for advice. What are you telling them to model when they think about board governance?

Christie Tarantino-Dean 3:57

Yeah, I was a CEO early and not planned in that I was promoted, so to speak, into the CEO role when the board made a change. And I, I was thrown right into it and learned a lot through that experience as well and being at Association Forum and one of the things I didn't realize when I took the job was really how many members would come and talk to you, when they were in a job-seeking mode, and then you hear a lot of what they were having to deal with. And one of the patterns for sure that I came to understand was associations take on the personality and the culture of the profession that they represent. I remember one of the dentists that was a wonderful leader for me at the Academy of General Dentistry, made the comment that if we're not chair-side, we're not working. So to have staff that work remotely does not make sense, to them, and they were trained to be perfectionists. The same board member who I still stay in touch with told me, "Christy, if we're off by a millimeter, it might as well be a mile." And and the examples go on and on, and I think it's really important to understand that, how they're trained. Even if they don't start dental school being a perfectionist, they are trained to be one or they will not be successful. And so understanding that I think is critical and knowing how to best work with your volunteer leaders because the way we work is very different, but ultimately we're serving them and the mission of the organization and if we wanna move things forward, we have to understand that and then find ways that we can productively work together. It's ultimately their organization and while certainly there are stories all the time of frustrating things that happen we have to find a way to be a partner to our volunteer leaders and and learn when to take a stand because it's right for the association or bring the rationale to them and when sometimes maybe aren't that hill to die on.

Jackson Boyar 6:12

I come from a for-profit background where as a CEO my board was stable and the incentives of that board were very clear that board were very clear

Christie Tarantino-Dean 6:21

and that made things frankly easy to navigate

Jackson Boyar 6:24

when you have a rotating board in many associations, things get more complicated. I imagine the burden of relationship development, in a short period of time on repeat is very high. And I'd love to hear how you advise others to think about that, especially if they are looking to drive transformation when they have such a short

Christie Tarantino-Dean 6:47

window of

Jackson Boyar 6:48

time to work with leaders.

Christie Tarantino-Dean 6:50

Yeah, I think we do have to establish relationships from the beginning. Now, certainly not everyone gets that opportunity depending on how their board is selected, whether it's a popular election or not. But for me we had a popular election when I first joined IFT. We don't now. We s- we made that change in 2021. But i- in both cases, I made sure to get to know individuals. I've got calls later today with my new incoming board members before they come to our board orientation next, next week, and this is not the first time I will have talked to them, some of whom I've never, I had never met before they were in the process. And so I think that is really critical to understand why they applied, what their experience with the organization is, and have them get to know you too. I'm really fortunate at IFT. There's a lot of of interest in becoming involved in the organization. There are a lot of individuals who've grown up in this organization. And they work in teams as product developers or researchers, and so they understand and appreciate the value that the IFT staff brings to the table, but we look at it very much as a partnership, and getting to know people is part of that. I spend a good amount of time with my board officers getting to know them personally because that really helps you understand, A, I always hear how much IFT has meant to them in their career and then what motivates them, what's important to them, and then lean into that. And in some cases they're nervous about being the chair of the board, the president of the organization. Many of our members started as students, and they looked at those presidents of the board at the height of their career, and to be, to now be in that spot themselves, they don't wanna let the organization down, and I think we have to remember that and figure out how we can support them. Not necessarily to veer off what the board wants to get done, but to how make sure they have a good experience and feel set up to be successful in this really prestigious role that they have.

Jackson Boyar 9:08

Do you have a practice of sort of new board member orientation? I imagine you have your mandate and how do you get

Christie Tarantino-Dean 9:16

Yes.

Jackson Boyar 9:17

up to speed and aligned with that vision?

Christie Tarantino-Dean 9:21

We have a pretty intense orientation I feel, a little bit for our incoming board members. They'll be official in September, is when ours turns over. But a month ago, we use an online tool for board management. We started loading at probably four hours of videos that are updates on various areas of the organization, past board minutes. A lot of prep. Now, we tell them, "You don't have to memorize it all, you don't have to understand it," but we want them to see that going into our new board orientation next week we'll be having it, and it's a pretty intense two days, where we again, we do training on what good governance looks like. We bring in outside trainers. And then we go into how do we apply this to IFT. We have case studies we walk through with them of decisions the board made, what the, post-mortem looks like on some of those decisions, how we could have done it better. And then we allow them to sit in on board meetings before they're official. So starting in June, they'll actually sit in on board meetings, our board meeting that's in June, so that they can see how the board functions. So our goal is ultimately for them to not feel like it, it will take them a year to understand how to contribute and that they're contributing from day one. I will say, having some of these calls, that they're a little overwhelmed by the material but I tell them it's okay, they can go back to it. They just need to start to understand, because IFT's a pretty big and complex organization, and many of these board members participated in one area, or maybe two areas, and they forget we have peer-reviewed journals or, they never were really involved as a student, so they don't think about our student association as an example. So we try to-- They have to make decisions on a lot of things related to resources and investments. And so we'd, we put them through a pretty intense onboarding at our organization.

Jackson Boyar 11:24

Sounds like there's been really thoughtful process and resourcing to the board dynamic, which I, I-- not every association can do. And I wonder if you're giving advice to a CEO who might be frustrated with their board dynamics because they have a very strong view of what the world should look like, and their members and board

Christie Tarantino-Dean 11:45

Yeah.

Jackson Boyar 11:46

are not necessarily aligned. W-what are one or two practices they could employ to build the credibility to make the decisions they hope to make?

Christie Tarantino-Dean 11:54

I do think... I have had someone say before, that they thought our process was a little much. And what I would say in response to that is I don't have board members that are going out and, and working against the board or don't understand what our strategic priorities are and what our culture... You know, we have leadership principles that we've talked about. And so I think it is so worth the investment. But what I would also say is that starts at the board application process. And so what we ask, the questions on the board application are a nod to how we work as an organization. So what happens if, give us an example of where you were not in favor of a decision, you were in the minority, how do you handle that? Those kinds of things that the minute they apply through the interview that they may have, if they make it to the interview round of our board, they're hearing things that establish what our expectations are and what our board culture is. And I think thinking through not just once they're selected, but if you can, what are the aspects of how you can orient them from the very beginning? So that they unders- they're not just showing up and then thinking, "This isn't what I thought it would be like." "I thought I would get to bring my agenda for the next year," or whatever that is.

Jackson Boyar 13:19

I love that. And I think given the shorter window of serving board member, starting the education before you even become a board member is even more important so that you can really get to work. I wanna shift a little bit away from the board to talk about what is possible when you have such a productive and constructive board. I did a little bit of research on IFT and I was really impressed to see that you've launched your own sort of AI innovation. This is something, as an entrepreneur, I would love to see more associations taking on. I saw even IFT technology ventures as a line item in your annual report. Maybe just start at the beginning. How does that type of conversation surface? And tell me a little bit more about CoDeveloper and where this can go for IFT.

Christie Tarantino-Dean 14:04

Yeah. Yeah, so it really started, I would say, in 2020. We, took the opportunity during COVID, during the pandemic, to really do some different kinds of member research, and we used a non-association type of member research framework called Jobs To Be Done that was brought to us by someone in the field. A framework developed by now deceased Harvard Business School professor Clayton Christensen. He wrote a book called Competing Against Luck. And really wanted to understand why individuals join IFT a- and what they're doing when they make that decision at that point in time, or why they don't renew. And what we found, largely through the conversations with those that didn't renew, is that the organization was so big and the scope was so diverse that people struggled to get to what they needed quickly. Product developers are under intense pressure to shorten development cycles. The supply chains are changing rapidly. How do they get to what they need? But what they need that's scientifically based that will ensure food is safe, food is healthy, those types of things. And so we started with developing a concierge service for our members. So let's say you've got a technical problem, and you need to know where all the research is that exists for that problem. You could call and our product developer we hired on staff would go and get you everything you need. That wasn't sustainable long term, but we learned that it was a need. And so from that point forward, my team, not me, brought forward this idea of what if we use AI to get people that information that they need quickly. We have 87 years of scientific research, posters, up to five, six hundred posters annually at our meeting. We have, lots of education and things that are recorded that could feed this AI tool. And again, when you have different types of leaders on our board now who are, I think, making these kinds of business decisions and they're... or they're adjacent to them in their own companies and organizations, we set out to do a pilot. And recognized that we weren't going to break even right away. So how do we serve our members using the technology and tools available to us, and what is our right to win as IFT? And it really is that it's science-backed. And so, a little nerve-wracking for me. I've never launched a technology platform. Fortunately, my predecessors ensured we were a very financially healthy organization, and we have very significant reserves. And our board said, "Why," "why aren't we strategically investing those to position IFT to be relevant and useful in the future and solve an existing need in the space?" And when you have a board that's really talking about the future and strategy and what does that look like and what aren't we going to do I think that's a big problem for all of us in associations, staff included. We don't like getting rid of things. We start making value choices. And what are the trade-offs if we don't do this? And so that's how we got there. We're, learning a lot along the way. But still very excited about the unique space that we can occupy to solve those job-related challenges that product developers are having in a world that is very fast-paced and changing for them every day with global events that are happening.

Jackson Boyar 17:45

I think, I know it's still early, but this to me is a beautiful case study of what innovation can look like in practice. And I also wanna highlight that it started with your board because of all the work you invested to build that foundation. The job to be done framework I highly endorse. I hope every association looks at the work of Clayton Christensen. And another thing I'd call out is that you focused on something that didn't scale initially, which is in my opinion, the best approach because by doing something manually, you are learning. I imagine the liaisons, the resources that were working with your members learned so much that could then be plugged into an AI product, and it starts with understanding your members. So I think there's probably so much more of this story to tell in the future as it evolves, but it type

Christie Tarantino-Dean 18:33

of innovation that I would

Jackson Boyar 18:35

love to see more associations investing in. And it's at a time when I think many association leaders are somewhat paralyzed by AI because whether they like it or not, their members are using these tools, sometimes taking their IP, their assets, and putting them into third-party tools. And it's also impacting the workforce in transformative ways. What do you tell other CEOs in private, other association CEOs

Christie Tarantino-Dean 19:01

about

Jackson Boyar 19:02

AI and how to react to this moment?

Christie Tarantino-Dean 19:05

You know, and I would say there are other peers of mine that I think are using it much more effectively as a staff tool. And I felt really good about CoDeveloper, and then one of our peers was on a program talking about having AI agents on their staff org chart, and I was like I was feeling really good about myself until I, till I heard that. But I think that it is really understanding the value that you bring. There are other AI tools in the product development space for, in the food industry, but they don't have the scientific underpinning of it, and that, to me, is really understanding how could you leverage what is the value in the environment that we're in today? It is not an insignificant investment, so I do understand that that it can be challenging for smaller organizations. You know, it's all relative. I always say, yes, we're bigger than many, but we're smaller than many as well. And making sure that you really understand that, that Jobs-To-Be-Done, frankly, is where it all started for us. And then making sure you have the skills on your team that think bigger. You need the operational thinkers, but you also need some that can dream of what is possible. And I would say our staff person who conceived of this idea really deserves all the credit of, ideating around it and then, dreaming that it could be possible and then, bringing it to me and others and saying, "Okay, what kind of resources do we need to help you investigate this idea?" And talking to the board about it, and then it, really going from there. And learning along the way, as you said, what we need, what we didn't anticipate some of those things, and over-communicating to the board because this is a big investment.

Jackson Boyar 21:00

I also love that you're calling out your staff as the originator of these ideas. It's clear that, you've built a culture that is not just top-down, but board and staff are able to contribute at the highest level. What is the vision and dream of something like co-developer? What could the world look like five years from now if IFT successfully, makes the right bets on AI?

Christie Tarantino-Dean 21:23

Yeah, I think that it, it is people in product development roles that are being really challenged to reformulate, to provide food to a growing population with less resources and those kinds of things. That they see this as a way to enable their, not just their company goals, but really how we feed the world sustainably. How the science continues to involve and support innovation. And that they see IFT as that place that helps them get there, but also to our overall mission and vision as an organization. The food system is under tremendous pressure, whether it be climate change, supply chains, all those things. And I think a lot of us including myself before I came to IFT, take, getting fresh fruits in January in Chicago for granted, and don't realize how complex the food system is and how much science has evolved to help us all be more productive and eliminate a lot of food insecurity. But there's still a lot of work to be done, and if we can use science to back those decisions, to keep food systems healthy, sustainable, all of those safe I'd feel really good about the investment that we've made, and that's what this is intended to do.

Jackson Boyar 22:42

It's inspiring and to work at a nonprofit association advancing that type of societal impact with AI, it's a great use case for AI. Can't always say that. Yeah. Maybe to shift a little bit, the association leaders I speak to are sometimes nervous about the value proposition of their work to the younger generations, so my generation, Millennials, Gen Z and even earlier. I, I noticed, you had done a student report on declining confidence in the field of food science among younger prospective members. To what degree does IFT play a role in changing the field globally? And then secondarily, how do you think about appealing to and supporting those younger members as they're exploring IFT?

Christie Tarantino-Dean 23:31

One of the really truly favorite parts of this organization for me right away when I joined was that we have a student association. But, as we have a declining population, certainly here in the United States of 18 to 22-year-olds it makes it more challenging for food science. As one of our past presidents who's a dean, academic dean and vice chancellor says, "Food science is a discovery degree." Many people don't know that there is a degree in food science. You can get an undergraduate, master's, PhD. And so how do we as an organization enable our members to talk to kids in schools and do things like we do at IFT, which is interact with science teachers, give them experiments they can use in the classroom to understand that they can make a difference? And because that generation does want to make a difference, and when you talk about figuring out how to use less water in food production so that we have more food security around the world, that is an inspiring story. And that there are all these ways that you can use those that are interested in science and math and engineering can actually use that to impact people's everyday lives. I was really excited a few weeks ago on a Friday, an association colleague who's actually retired was at his granddaughter's science fair and sent me a picture of our Chicago section's table at the science fair talking about food science. And so we've got members who are really passionate about this and just trying to bring more awareness to food science as a career. And a very rewarding one should people have more awareness of it. So that's what we're trying to do. Do we have it solved? Absolutely not. We continue to talk about it. But we activate our students too who are so passionate as they're learning and growing in their careers and many of them give back to go back and talk to schools about how food science is a degree that many don't know about.

Jackson Boyar 25:39

It should be. I think it's appealing to me as somebody who studied outside the field. But it's also really thoughtful how you're selling the mission of the work not just the tangible day-to-day science, but the societal imperative. I imagine that impacts access to the career of food science. How do you think about progression? If there was, the job-to-be-done for a student member transitioning into the workforce, what role, what job can IFT play for that individual? Not just getting the degree, but post-degree.

Christie Tarantino-Dean 26:13

Yeah we have a lot of activities in our student association. We have product development competitions, for example where one is where they are given the problem to solve in a country or a food insecure part of the world to create a product that is culturally appropriate using the resources and ingredients that can be found there. But more importantly, it's around how do you work as a team? No food scientist, no person who focuses on safety, packaging, supply chain, whatever that is, works alone. So in food, you have to be able to work across a system and teams. And so for us, as we're looking to the future, it's how do we prepare scientifically gifted students to actually work in the team, work with marketing, be able to communicate why something may or may not work in a shelf-stable food that, that, the marketing team would like you to create? Or the cost associated with certain ingredients that you would like to have in your product and what that means in terms of sustainability, all of those things. So how do we help them take their academic learnings and apply that into the business setting or into the academic setting? Let's say they wanna go and teach. They've gotten their PhD, and they wanna do deep research now that can be applied to use case in the broader food industry later on. But you have to manage a lab, you have to manage students. How do we provide in addition to what is the latest science being presented but also what, how you work in teams and advance that work, and make those connections that you will need throughout your career. And, we regularly hear IFT referred to as a family, and regularly hear that people got every job they've had through their long career through IFT. And I don't think that's any different than how ASAE functions or Association Forum functions for many of us. Establish those networks when you need them. I- not when you need them, but early, so you have them when you need them whether it's to help you solve this job-related challenge or to find your next opportunity. IFT certainly does that since we start when they're undergraduate students as well. Hopefully that answers your question.

Jackson Boyar 28:39

It does and I think the team-based nature of the curriculum that you're pushing forward to the industry probably only helps with networking. That doesn't come easy to a young professional, but you're building soft skills or durable skills. We'll wrap up with one or two more questions. That, that broad question is about the annual meeting, and I know IFT first is like the staple of the community in many ways. It is for most associations. As we moved through a pandemic, that type of revenue stream was disrupted, and I have heard almost every association leader since entering this field talk about the member life cycle outside that in-person experience that can be so formative to their identity within the association. You're building an AI-enabled technology tool that can be useful year-round, not just in person. There are student chapters doing activities. But how would you think about the business model of the association in such a way that it's not overly tied to the annual meeting?

Christie Tarantino-Dean 29:36

Yeah, that's a hard one. IFT, our meeting certainly has been just a huge part of the experience, and the only part of the experience for many people for a very long time. So we're, we are also looking at how we can create those connections. We do have sections, which are chapters, but how do we build those opportunities to connect year-round? Um, And I would say through using timely opportunities. There's a lot going on in the food space, so how are we bringing people together to talk about the challenges that we're facing? How are we connecting with our chapter leaders or se- well, which are sections for us to help enable them to create that local experience and bring that to more year-round? How are we looking at the content and how we do things differently? Associations, we do certain things on a annual cycle and we think everybody wants them the same, and they don't. The younger generation and certainly since the pandemic, I think people think about evening events very differently. So we're looking at all of that and I think how can we... I think with platforms like the one that you've launched, how can we help people find- the person that is they need to network with very intentionally or the mentor that they need very intentionally. We've done some of that with our conference app to help people match. But, we're exploring what, what looks next for that year-round engagement. And also recognizing it may be different for different people, starting to be more customized in our approach around what people need. And maybe they just need us for CoDeveloper right now, but because of CoDeveloper, they look at us for other things. They decide to come to the meeting to find that supplier that they need to replace because of access and global disruption. So we're trying to really get to that customized member journey. I wouldn't say we've figured it all out. Our membership is incredibly diverse. We're the big umbrella versus, just around one specific specialty. So we're working our way through it, and maybe a year from now I'll have a different answer to that question.

Jackson Boyar 31:54

Well, I don't think associations get enough credit for the product challenge that they have to take on given the diversity of membership. Most businesses focus on one or two personas and, you're talking about global audience across the entire life cycle of an industry. You have to do the annual event. It's not like you can step away from that, and i- it's hard. This is the innovator's dilemma when you have something that works so well for such a large swath of the community to do something new.

Christie Tarantino-Dean 32:19

Yeah. Yeah.

Jackson Boyar 32:21

But clearly you have demonstrated ability to at least try new things, which I think is so paramount in this moment. And so with that I'll give you your last question to wrap things up. You said 35 years in the association world. You've seen a lot and you now have the benefit of that experience. I am curious, given all your experience, what is the one thing that, that does keep you up at night about the field at large today? And then secondarily, what is the thing that no longer keeps you up at night because that experience has helped you build the confidence? And that second question is really the advice to the first time CEO or the early career CEO.

Christie Tarantino-Dean 32:56

So I'll answer the second question first. So, I think because I was in organizations that were going through a lot of change, if I go back to my time at the Professional Convention Management Association, we were moving a headquarters of an organization from Birmingham, Alabama to Chicago, and I was one of the very few staff who made that move. It was hard. I had to jump in and learn a lot of new things. And then if I go into, I became a CEO very young, not really looking for it, also very challenging and figuring it out. And so I think what you learn is that you will get through these hard times, and I think it is very important to build resilience. It can be daunting at times but I do have a lot of history to look back on and say, "No, I didn't get it right. This is what I learned from," making some mistakes. Had amazing mentors who were older than me, who'd been through a lot. I could not have done it without those people and my peers. And when you, you realize you're not in it by yourself i- it may seem that way some days. I had a board member at PCMA say that to me when I, when he reached out to me when I got my first CEO job. He said, "It's a lonely seat but let me know if you need anything. I'm here to help you." And I think our community is incredibly gracious and giving in that way, unlike, I think many industries. And so that's the learning. I would say what I- what doesn't keep me up at night anymore, I think is that peace, is that, you do your very best, you work hard, you utilize your network, you continue to learn. You will likely figure something out. The pace of change, though, is incredible. And I think it is hard to sometimes feel like you can have a win when every day there's some new wrinkle that gets thrown your way. And IFT has provided us this opportunity. We hire the very best people we can find and I think making sure you have people that are a lot smarter than you in many areas of the organization to me, has been huge. I gave the one example a minute ago of our young PhD in food science who came forward with this idea for an AI tool. I think I answered both, it's hard. It's hard right now. The pace of change is really hard, and if you have... i'm fortunate that I have a board who recognizes that and recognizes we need to change. And I think what I've learned is that- You can't make everybody happy. It's really hard. As a former membership director, you want your members to all be happy. They're just not going to be. So how do we learn to live with the 20% who aren't happy with us to better serve the whole of the organization and be sustainable and relevant moving forward?

Jackson Boyar 36:08

It's great perspective. I can only imagine there are many empaths working within the association field, which makes you even that much more attuned to the frustration on the other side of the desk. But I think you put it well or your mentor put it that it is lonely at the top or lonely when you're the only person in your membership manager role. Recognizing the value of peers and a safe space to connect and feel less alone helps you get through. So thank

Christie Tarantino-Dean 36:35

Yeah.

Jackson Boyar 36:35

for all that you shared today, Christie. It's clear, you're a testament to what great leadership looks like in the association field. Really grateful to have your perspective on the podcast today.

Christie Tarantino-Dean 36:46

Oh, thank you very much. It's a community. Takes a village, for sure.