Episode 42 | Travis Taylor | From Rock Bottom to Redemption

What happens when success on the outside hides destruction on the inside?

In Episode 42 of the Rain Brings Growth Podcast, Matthew Sidwell sits down with Travis Taylor to share a raw and honest story about career success, addiction, loss, and ultimate redemption through faith.

Travis grew up around farm life and was raised in the Mormon church. After graduating high school, he slowly drifted away from his faith while searching for direction in life. A few years later, Travis began working in corrections as a stepping stone toward becoming a police officer. What started as a temporary job quickly turned into a full career as he promoted through the ranks and worked at multiple facilities.

While Travis appeared to be building a successful career, he was fighting a silent battle behind the scenes. Alcohol began taking control of his life, leading to destructive choices that eventually cost him everything including his job, his marriage, and his relationship with his child.

Travis shares his deeply personal journey through addiction, hitting rock bottom multiple times, attending rehab twice, and facing the difficult reality of rebuilding his life from nothing. Through his lowest moments, Travis found healing, purpose, and identity through Jesus Christ.

This episode is a powerful reminder that failure does not define your future and sometimes losing everything is the beginning of true transformation.

If you are struggling with addiction, loss, faith, or rebuilding your life after mistakes, this conversation will bring encouragement and hope.

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🔥 Topics Covered In This Episode

Farm life upbringing and early influences
Growing up Mormon and walking away from faith
Working in corrections and promoting through the ranks
Hidden struggles with alcohol and addiction
Losing career, marriage, and family
Rock bottom moments and rehab journey
Finding faith and healing through Jesus Christ
Rebuilding identity and purpose

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Yeah, you're welcome. It's been uh it's been a cool reconnecting with you since I don't know, what was it right before Christmas, or you see me at Christmas at Rock Harbor and then Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

I seen you there a few times. I was like, oh, okay, he goes there as well. And yeah, it's I've been going there for oh probably three years or so. Yeah um yeah, it was it's it's been uh been really awesome. It's really helped me out a lot.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

So there's a lot of people that go there. It's a huge church. I didn't realize how many people actually went there from all over the valley, too.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Yeah, I started going to like the 9 45 or the 11 30, and there's just so many people that go to those ones, and then you know, I don't like to wait around and go in the afternoon, so I just start going to the eight o'clock. It's way easier to get in, way easier to get good seats, and yeah. And uh, we used to watch it online a lot, but it's just uh it's different when you go in person, so yeah. So it's been super good. But you guys up front?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

I think I've seen you this last week. I was kind of looking at it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yeah, I usually sit like three row, three or four rows back on the left of the stage, not the far left, but like yeah, the second little section there. Yeah, the second little section there, and so um it's been really good. My girlfriend or fiance now, she she was going there before we met, and so that's how I found out about them, and um, it's been really good. Um, a lot of people um that I'm friends with at work and stuff have slowly started to go with me. So now at most I've had three people from work come with me, and then they're families too, so it's been really good. Yeah, you said you had like what, 14 people at Christmas? You had to review the Christmas Eve service. We had 14 people with us, so it was really cool. Um, it's just like when you work with different people and they see you, um, have a different light about you, I guess. They start to ask questions, you know, like what what what's changed in your life? What have you what are you doing differently that you weren't doing before? And well, let me let me share it with you, let me take you with me. And so it started to slowly traverse into like it's a really good opportunity to share the gospel with people. And and so, and it it's not just about them, it's about me too. You know, it helps me stay where I need to be when when I'm when I'm helping other people find God as well. Um, and so it fills my cup up just as much as it hopefully fills fills theirs up. But oh for sure, yeah, I get that. But yeah, it's been uh, you know, I grew up LDS, so it was uh it's a lot different than being Mormon, you know. It's you know, I was Mormon from the time I was born until I was 18 years old. And yeah, where'd you grow up? I was born in well, I was born in Emmett and uh lived there for till I was in kindergarten. And then when I was at kindergarten age, I moved to Cuna. Um my grandparents had a farm out in Cuna that they'd have since had since like 1976, and so they had 10 acres out there, and my grandparents were like, hey, we're getting older. Um, how about you guys how how about my mom was their daughter, obviously. And so they're like, How about you guys move here and we'll put a double white on the 10 acres and you guys move into our house? And so so we actually moved into the house that my mom was raised in. And so now that we have grandchildren there, it's a four-generation place, and so um, it's really cool. And so my mom actually still lives there, and then we just got a place across the street on eight acres, and so I live right across the street from my mom's ten acres, and um, so yeah, I was born and raised in Cuna. Uh went to kindergarten through 12th grade in Cuna, bought my first house in Cuna, still in Cuna.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Yeah, there's nothing out there probably when you were grew up.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

No, not at all. It's grown out. It's grown a lot. Um, it's changed a lot, but but yeah, so we're we're still out in Cuna, and uh that's where I was born and raised on a farm out there, and always been kind of into the into the cattle and and farming atmosphere. Um always in my adult life I've I've bought two separate farms. I had one out in Nampa, and then I also had one out in Emmett as well. Um, and then life just kind of took me back to Cuna, and so I've been back in Cuna since 2022. But uh, but yeah, I've always kind of enjoyed that that country lifestyle. It's how I was raised, you know, having having cows, and and um, so now that we have that back, it's it's really bittersweet when you know when your life changes and then you get that back, you know. Um it's a lot sweeter the second time around than yeah. Um I had to earn it this time. I had to earn it. And uh so it's a lot more sweet. I wake up every day and I'm just so grateful for for everything that I have, and um it's just it's such a blessing, you know. It's so cool. Um and so yeah, my life's been super blessed. And so yeah, I've been out in Cuna for for most of my life. I don't know if we'll stay there, it's I don't know if we'll stay in the valley either. Um it's just grown so much and housing market's crazy, interest rates are hopefully gonna get better, but um, it's just expensive. And so we've been looking up in like Idaho City and Marcine, and we've looked as far as Grangeville too, um, just to be able to get more, more property, more, more bang for your buck, if you will. So yeah. But for now, we're we're happy we're in a really good place, and and uh so we'll we'll just kind of see where where it takes us. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

So what was life like growing up on a farm? Did you do sports stuff too, or was it just pretty much just a cattle life?

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Um so I I wasn't like super great at sports. I mean, I was okay. I I played baseball through high school. Um I never traversed like college or anything like that, but but all through all through my grade school and all through um all through high school I played baseball. And uh, you know, my brothers all played baseball as well. And um one of my brothers, he played basketball, he played baseball, and he was really he still is really into sports and stuff, but but yeah, mostly I was just as a kid growing up, I was just out on the farm, you know. I'd I'd just get home from school and take my BB gun outside and you know, go shoot Tweety birds and take my dogs out and did a lot of pheasant hunting because our property uh butted up to a wildlife, it's now a wildlife preservation, but back then it was not. And so I could just walk our property line um down our field and into this this big open area and just just go shoot pheasants and stuff. So so yeah, I was never that kid that was growing up that played video games or sat in front of the TV. And it's changed a lot now. You know, I have a 14-year-old daughter and and it's you know, she has that country lifestyle right at her right at her fingertips, and she doesn't really embrace it too much, you know, but every kid's different. But um, but yeah, it's for me, it was never never TV, it was never never uh uh video games, it was just about being outside and enjoying life, you know, and having friends over. And given that, you know, because not everyone gets that lifestyle as they're a kid growing up, you know, I was super fortunate to have that. And um, so a lot of my friends wanted to come over and like go hunting and and go shoot birds because they just didn't have that ability to just walk outside and do that. And so I'm I always liked working on like I had a truck in high school, it was just like an old 1987 Nissan pickup, but I was always outside working on that in the shop and just tinkering with that and and doing stuff like that. So I've always really had a passion. Like my grandparents were were really into the country lifestyle. My grandpa was really into horses and um and so and he was really into chickens. It seems really stupid, but like he was like a big chicken farmer, and so he got me into that. And so the my my main hobby growing up in middle school, and not so much in high school, I kind of grew out of that because when you're in high school, it's like different, like you want to hang out with your friends and and do that, but all through middle school, like I was a big chicken farmer, so like I would, you know, have I was in 4-H and had a bunch of chickens that I would just you know utilize for 4-H, and then I had a bunch of stock that I would use just for eggs, and I would sell eggs as a kid just to make extra money and and stuff like that. And so it was really fun. And then my grandpa was really into like fighting roosters, which there's you know, that not many people know much about those, but there's a huge market for for these game roosters, and um, so as a kid I used to raise those and sell them, but with those, you gotta isolate them. If you put them together, they're gonna fight and stuff. So so I had like these big barrels that I would have to have to attach them to, kind of like a like a hawk, you know, how they had those cables on them with the leather strap on their leg, and they had like a five-foot radius, and I would just have a whole pasture just full of them, and I would raise them from from chicks, and and then I would sell them when they became adults, you know. Back then, when I was in middle school, I would sell them for like a hundred dollars a piece, you know. So that was a lot of money as a kid, you know. And so I did that, and and my grandpa was super proud of me because he got to the point where he couldn't really go out and do it anymore. And um, so I kind of lived his legacy on with that, and and so I kind of instilled that in my daughters. My daughter did 4-H with chickens, and and so I'm gonna get back into it here this this spring, but it's always been something I've been passionate about, that in cows, and I've always raised cows as a kid and and in my adult life too. And it's just just something I'm passionate about, whatever everyone has different interests and hobbies. But for me, that was what gave me a lot of joy is just working hard outside and raising cows and and just living, you know, living off the land, kind of a kind of a thing. So that's what I did most of my childhood. Um, so I had a really good childhood. My dad was a my dad was a police officer. Um, all through my dad still is. My dad's a detective for Canyon County now, but all through my childhood growing up, my dad was a Meridian police officer. And so, and so that's kind of always what I wanted to do. But then this day and age, it's so challenging. Just all the the political stuff that's involved with being in law enforcement today, it's it's it's something I didn't really want to do anymore. Um, but at age 20, that's what I was still wanted to do. And so that's you know, I'm growing up you want to be in law enforcement? Yeah. Yeah. So I just wanted to follow my dad's footsteps, and and so that's kind of why I worked at the prison and and started there. My dad's like, if you want to get into law enforcement, you know, you're too young right now, because I wasn't even, you know, I was only 20 at the time. He's like, start working out of the prison and do a couple years and and see if it's really something you'd be interested in. So I, you know, started doing that and and uh did that for uh 10 years, so um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

When you grew up Mormon, um, did you think you were gonna go on a mission or anything?

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Or I did actually. Um, so I have three brothers, and out of all my brothers, only one of them went on a mission. One of them went on a mission for two years and completed it. And when I was 18 years old, like I had a high school girlfriend, and I, you know, was with her for, you know, two or three years of my high school career. And like it was hard for me because I was like, man, is she gonna like still be there when I get back? And like it was a really hard decision as like a kid. I was like, I was like, I thought this was it, you know, I was gonna get, you know, ultimately did get married to her. Um, but I was like, man, if I leave, is is it gonna, are you gonna be here when I get back? And I was psyching myself out about it, but but I proceeded a little bit further with it and I made the decision that I was gonna go. And then there's, you know, a bunch of interviews and and processes that you have to go through in order to be worthy to go on a mission. You know, you have to go through interviews with like higher-ups in the church, and they ask you all these questions. And, you know, at the time growing up in high school, you know, I I drank alcohol and and uh, you know, I was pretty always really responsible as a as a as a teenager. I was always really a responsible person, but you know, in high school, you know, a lot of people get wrapped up in drinking, you know, experimenting with alcohol and things like that. So like bonfires and stuff. Yeah, just just bonfires and and and just you know, being a kid, you know, and and so when I went through the process of trying to go on my mission, they you know, I wasn't dishonest with the people that I was being interviewed by. And um, so ultimately it kind of I was kind of determined that it I wasn't worthy to go at the time. And so I could have I could have easily, you know, um went through the steps and repented and and did those things that it would take to to become worthy. But at that point, I was like, well, if I'm not good enough now, and that this was when I wasn't a young kid, but if I'm not worthy now, then I'm just gonna move on with my life. And so, and so I did, and I just kind of let that let that go. But um yeah, it was it probably would have been a blessing in my life if I would have chosen to go, but uh it just I wasn't in the right mindset at the time. I was a young kid, I was 17 years old, you know, like had a lot of life experience to still learn and a lot of hard hardships to uh to go through and learn from still. And um, so yeah, I 18 years old, I just decided not to do that and had to, you know, a couple dead-end jobs for a while before before I'd, you know, ultimately decided to work at the prison. There were some steps before that that occurred, but but yeah, I just ultimately didn't go just because I didn't pass the first interview and there was I felt kind of judged um by that and I was like, well, I'm here, I'm ready to go, like I want to go, but it was just like uh you're not gonna get the green light to go. You're not you're not living your life the way that you should be, and so you're at this moment, you're not able to go. And so as a rebellious young person, I was just like, you know what, I'm I'm not even gonna try. And so I just moved on with my life at that point.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

But were you pretty active in the Mormon church growing up, like in baptized and yeah, I was baptized eight and twelve, right? Twelve the other one.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Yeah, so the LDS religion, they they pretty much cultivate everyone if you're in that religion to be baptized by your eight years old. And so my daughter was baptized in the LDS religion when she was eight. And that's just kind of the standard um for for that religion. And so, yeah, I was baptized at eight years old. I, you know, went to church every Sunday with my family. I went uh, you know, I was in Boy Scouts, got my Eagle Scout, and um, you know, went went through all that stuff and went to church every week and and um went to, you know, all the the get togethers and went to the temple and and and did all that stuff, you know, as a kid growing up. But that's you know, whatever you're you're doing as a kid, whatever your parents raise you to be or what you think is what they think is right, um, is ultimately what you're gonna believe in. You know, that's why it's such a big responsibility to be a parent, is like you're cultivating a little human, and and so I always grew up thinking that was the only way to be, and um that you know I needed to live my life by by all these rules, and and ultimately I'm grateful that my parents raised me in the in a church. Yeah. Um, because it whether, you know, there's so many religions out there, but you know, at the end of the day, most religions have a good baseline of like ethics and morals and doing the right thing. And yeah, ultimately there's a good there's a good foundation in most most churches. Yeah, I agree. And so And the Mormons have really good family values, like it's it's they're they're very helpful, they're very um, very willing to if there's someone in need in the church, whether it's you know, financially or food or or m just simply moving from you know another from one house to another house, like they're very good about just just helping other people. And um, and so that's what I you know I really like. But I I've I've in my adult life I've found that that's most religions are that way, you know, they just want to help other people, and that's really why we're here, you know, on earth is just to help other people. It's we need to be selfless, and and so I was really grateful to to learn that as a kid growing up and instilled that, even though I in my 20s I strayed away from that. I always had that foundation to fall back on, even though I was rebellious and wanted to do my own thing, and I I can do this without God. Like I always I always had that foundation to fall back on that was instilled in me as a kid, and so I was grateful that my parents taught me that, you know? Yeah. What was your Eagle Scout project? Um, so at like the middle school in Cuna, or I guess it it's the middle one of the middle schools now, but it was elementary school at the time. Um, it was well, I just built like this huge room with all these shelves and stuff inside of it to uh basically store for people that like wanted to donate clothes or shoes or jackets or whatever it was. They had a place to to walk in and they could organize the shoes by size, they could order organize the clothes by girls and boys and and also by sizes. So um I just got a bunch of people together and we just basically remodeled a room and built a bunch of shelves and and so it was pretty cool. But but yeah, the Boy Scouts was cool, like it was it was really good foundation. It something that instills in you like you gotta there's a lot of lot of it's a years of processes to go through to achieve that. But then all the cool things you get to do amongst while you're in the process, like you know, I got you know, a small boat sailing merit badge, a canoeing merit badge, a rifle shooting, rock climbing, wilderness survival, like just a bunch of bunch of different cool things that I had to, you know, for one merit badge, there's a list of things that you have to accomplish in order to get that. And so it was it was a really cool experience. So every year we'd go to scout camp up in McCall and I'd stay there for a week with a bunch of my friends that I went to school with, but we also went to church with them too. And um, and so it was just kind of a cool bonding experience just to go up in the woods with your friends and leaders that you respected and had a bond with and just go go camping for a week and and do that. So yeah. So it was really cool. I was grateful I did it, and all all three of my brothers got their Eagle Scouts too. So all four of us went through that whole whole process, and I was super grateful for that. It it taught me a lot of a lot of good stuff, so yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

I wish I would have done it. I went to like one Cub Scout meeting and I was like, no, yeah, I had other stuff going on in my life too, but I I wish I would have done it. There was a lot of cool stuff. Yeah, I still don't know how to tie all the knots, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yeah, I wish I could remember how to tie all the knots, man, because there's a lot of cool knots you can tie out there, and now that I do what I do for a living, like sometimes I'm like trying to yank stuff onto a roof, and it's like, man, I wish I could remember half those knots, and all I can do is like a double knot and just hope it holds. But there's a lot of cool stuff that I learned, and it's just about commitment, you know, just following through, and that traverses into your adult life too, just starting something, and it may not be easy to accomplish it, but like it shows dedication and drive. And so, like, I wanted to be in the Air Force when I was younger, and like I went to get like enlisted and talked to a recruiter, and just because I had achieved an Eagle Scout, like you would start out as an E3. Oh, really? Instead of you know, just starting from ground zero. So that was pretty cool. So that the military actually recognized like the an Eagle Scout as an accomplishment, and you'd start out with a little bit of rank versus no rank at all. So that was pretty cool, but but yeah, I did didn't end up going into the Air Force, but yeah, what what veered you away from that? Oh man, I was that was in like 2010. I was still young and dumb, and um I don't really remember what what uh what traversed me from not accomplishing that. Um it it I I honestly don't remember if it was just scared, like once I got my feet wet and talking to a recruiter and understanding what it actually takes to uh to join the military. I don't know if I was just too too timid at the time or didn't want to leave home or or what it was, but it just kind of fell through. But but I definitely investigated it and I I wanted to do do something like that, but uh then I ultimately kind of started out at the prison kind of around that same time too. So it was just kind of like let's move on and just start a career and and do that. So but but yeah, my little brother littlest brother, he actually joined the Marine Corps and did did his time in there, and it was good for him. You know, he just did his like four years, and then he was able he had the option to get out during COVID, and uh, so he got out of the Marine Corps during that time, but about But I think anybody that joins the military is is awesome. Like I think that's a great, great thing to do, and it's great to serve your country and and do that. And it also shows dedication and drive, and you're willing to do something that most people aren't willing to do, which I think is ab admirable for sure. But yeah, it's cool to have a lot. It's cool to have like a brotherhood too. Yeah. You know, like get that camaraderie and yeah, and like all the people that he went to into the military with, like he's still it's been years now, but he's still in touch with a lot of those people, and it's a brotherhood that you can't really replicate, you know. So so I I would I commend him for doing that. But yeah, it just never worked out for me, you know, and maybe maybe I wasn't supposed to do that, but but I was I was just young and trying to figure out where where my niche was and what what I was gonna do, and and life just takes you in a completely different direction sometimes than you want it to go. But back then I was I was steering the ship and and uh now today it's it's a lot different. You know, I'm not I try to relinquish control and let God be in control of most everything in my life, and it's hard to do because I'm an extremely OCD person, I've been that way my whole life. Everything's a process, everything's um rigid, everything's meticulous, and and so it's it was the hardest thing for me to do was to let go of control and just be like, I need to give this to God. And and that that you know happened, you know, within the last couple of years. And I tell you what, like once you get to that point in your life, it's amazing. It's uh just a big, like, big weight off of your shoulders. We don't we're not designed to be in control, you know. Yeah, and um, and so it's it's changed like who I am on a day-to-day basis. Now, I still fight like those CD tendencies, and all my you know, my house and all my vehicles and everything are always clean and organized, and you know, it's it there's that aspect of it. It's really hard to fight it, but just in the grand scheme of things, you know, most of it I just finances, family, any important decisions I need to make, I just pray about it, you know, and try not to be in control. Yeah, that's huge. So uh you were 20 when you started the prison? Yeah, so I I was yeah, 20 years old. Um, did not know what I wanted to do with my life. It it kind of I had to get responsible extremely quick. Cause um, you know, I was in my early 20s, I was I was drinking a lot, I was partying a lot, um, I had a dead-end job making minimum wage. And um the girl who I was with in high school, um, she ended up getting pregnant. And um, so that's where how I had my 14-year-old. And so I was, you know, didn't have a really good job, I didn't have health insurance, I didn't have retirement, and uh didn't have any of that. And I was like, okay, now I'm gonna be a father, unprepared, a 20-year-old kid. And I was like, I gotta get something going, you know, that where I can provide. And so the, you know, my father told me, he's like, he's like, I would start, you know, if you want to get into law enforcement, start out at the prison, get get your feet wet, see if that's something you really want to do. And so I applied out there and and got the job. So yeah, I started out there when I was 20 years old. Um, or I guess probably like right after my I guess back then they changed it to 18, but back then you had to be 21. So I went through the interview process when I was 20, but I had just turned 21. Like just barely. And so I was just just yeah, just 21 years old and started working out there, and I did not anticipate me staying there that long at all. Where'd you get started at? What facility? So I I started at ISCI. Um so that was a medium security facility. Um, and I just kind of fell in love with it. I've always liked helping people. Um, I've always been a natural born leader my whole life. I've always people have always gravitated towards me. And I liked, I liked just the leadership of like inmates. They're in a I uh, you know, some of them are good, some of them are bad, some of them want to change, some of them don't. But I really liked helping the inmates that wanted to change. And um, that was that that filled my cup, you know. I was like, some of these guys, you know, they had they went through addiction or they went through a bad experience or they made a mistake, but some of them learn from them, not all of them do, but a lot, uh I would say a good fair of them, a fair amount wanted to change. And so I just like being a mentor, you know. You know, I would be a prison guard if I had to, but most of the time it was a lot of it was communication, as you know, just communicating with people. And and so I fell in love with it, and and so I was just like an RFM, you know, relief, relief person, just bouncing all over to different housing units, didn't really have a lot of responsibility. It was kind of easy just to eight in the gate kind of a thing. And and I was given an opportunity to to work in the behavioral health unit um shortly, like right after I got out of the academy. I was maybe an RFM for like three months. And so at at ISCI, I don't know if you've ever worked in in the BHU there, but um, I just fell in love with working with those really difficult inmates, like really challenging inmates to talk to. And you couldn't hold them accountable the same way that you could hold an inmate accountable in G block at ISCC. It's a completely different mindset. And communication was like the most important thing. Like, you got to use your communication skills. So I was given an opportunity to walk into that position day shift, you know, with a consistent schedule, consistent days off. And so I I started working in there and I stayed in there for a long time, like several years, um, just kind of dealing with the same inmate population, dealing with the same staff, um, because it was an exempt post. And so a lot of the guys stayed in there, you know, that were in there from from when I started in there. And so I got to learn from them and get get familiar with the difficult inmates and just all the treatment plans and things like that. And so I did that for a few years and and then um promoted to corporal in like I was thinking I was like 22, 23 when I promoted to corporal. And uh then I went to like just a GP worker unit, unit 13 there at ISCI, and I was then there for a year. And then um, and then I during bedtime I put in to go to be a corporal back in the BHU on day shift, and then I got selected for that. So I went back to the behavior health unit again, and I was just getting my feet wet in there as a corporal, and then I got promoted to sergeant, um, and then but I got promoted to sergeant at a different facility, so then I went to S-I-C-I, South Idaho Crutchinal Institution, for four years. I was there for a long time. So um what was that like? Going to the from a medium to a minimum? It was it was so much fun. I mean, it was really fun. I it was probably the best time of my career. Um, because there you're as a sergeant, you're a shift commander there. And so I went from like being a corporal in a housing unit where there's you know a sergeant above you, there's shift commanders above you, you're just kind of like a you know, a mid-level supervisor, not really a lot of decision making or not a lot of validity to that position. It was just like a lead worker, you know. So I went from that to like now I'm running a shift, you know, and now I'm in charge of absolutely every decision that's made is going through me. And so it was it was kind of intimidating at first, but uh it was really good for me because I was young when I promoted the sergeant, I was 24 years old, and and I it was it was hard to like when I first promoted the sergeant, like a lot of the guys at ISCI were like, who is this guy? He's 24 years old, he's just a brown noser, good old boy, you know, and there's a lot of that out there, but it was hard to to earn respect, you know. If you if you promote at the same facility, sometimes it's like people were like, Well, why didn't I get that position? Or or how is he better than I am? And there's a lot of judgment and a lot of a lot of just you know, you know how it is. Yeah. And and so it was really easy for me to promote DeSargent to a new facility because no one knew me. And so I was like a clean slate, and so I was like, okay, now I'm in and now I can like be in charge of the reputation that I want to have and I can start fresh. Like I I want to be a really good leader, and so it was it was super awesome, you know. I really, really loved it. It was an absolute awesome time.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Like, did you find more rewarding with the minimum security because they were you know, they have a lot more to lose. Maybe they wanted to change more than the mediums.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

They had a lot more to lose. And so, like, if an inmate makes a mistake at SICI, like we transfer them to a medium security facility, they know that. There's it's not like ISCC or IMSI or ISCI, like you make a mistake, you go to restrictive housing for, you know, 30 days and you come back out with maybe your points or higher on your classification. But there it's like if you mess up, you're out. Like, and so as far as managing the inmate population, it was super simple. Like it was it was just more about contraband because they were leaving, you know, when I was doing count, you know, I'd have like 300 out counts, you know, guys that were completely out of the facility, you know, and so it was more about contraband reduction because there were everyone was bringing in drugs, everyone was bringing in chew and all that chew and all that stuff. So it was it was more about just more investigation stuff, more bringing in dogs, more more doing a lot more searches, more a lot more intel. Um, but it was just it was so relaxing working there. I really enjoyed it. And so I was a shift commander there for for two years, and then I put in for operations and training, and I was operations and training sergeant for two years there. And I absolutely loved that job because it worked worked so well with my personality because I'm so OCD and so meticulous. That like building schedules and and managing staff and managing training and keeping track of all the records, like it was super easy for me, and I just absolutely loved it because I remember what it was like to be an officer and asking for a day off was just a challenge, or asking for a training opportunity was a challenge, or asking for someone just to advocate for you was a challenge. And I I I remembered I remembered being an officer, and I was like, if I get into a position like this, I'm gonna make I'm gonna make it different. I'm gonna make it to where people feel valued, people feel like the I was I always remember the operations office being super intimidating. Like if you went in there, you felt like you were bothering them. If you were asking for a day off, you felt like it was gonna be a no. Like I had an open door policy. I I made my office so comfortable. I brought in some comfortable chairs, I put a little coffee table in there. I always had a uh, you know, a candy jar. I painted the walls, I put a bunch of a bunch of pictures that had nothing to do with prison. And people would just come into my office and just sit and chill. And like that's the atmosphere that I wanted to create because I remember what it was like being an officer and just being so intimidated to go in there and being so intimidated to ask for time off. And just I felt like I was always bothering them, and I just wanted to have like this different feel, and so being able to be that is one of the most to me, that's one of the most important positions out there that literally you're taking care of the staff, like that's the most important thing. And so that was probably out of my 10 years there, that was like the highlight of my career, I would say, is like those people that like never were given a chance because they had this reputation of oh, that guy's just an eight in the gate guy. Those are the guys that I wanted to get respect from. Like, there's the disgruntled, difficult people, like those are the those are my targets, and those are still my targets today, not not in the prison world, but just in life. Like those those people that are hard to get a hold of and hard to hard to get into their heart. And so, like, I absolutely love that position. Like, I was really good at it, I loved it. And like, if I could go back, you know, if I had to go back to the prison and do something, that would, you know, I I really love that time. Like it was I really enjoyed taking care of staff because you see so many people out there just get murdered with overtime and and just not treated correctly, and you're just a number. And like for me, like it was no, we're gonna change the narrative. Like it's gonna be different. Like, it's not gonna be the the person that I took over for, like, it was that way in that office. It was the walls were white, there was nothing on the walls, there was uniforms everywhere. Like, my office was clean, neat, organized, and people just love to come in and just talk. And like that, that's what it's all about. And uh that really transfers to like who I am as a person, but like I just loved taking care of people and just making people feel valued. Like, you're not just a number, you're not just an officer who's gonna go walk tears for eight hours and do cell searches. And if you don't do it, I'm gonna hold you accountable. Like, like, I just loved the challenge of like changing the culture, and uh that was like I loved that job. I loved it so much, and but I wanted to be a lieutenant, and it was really hard to get I kept putting in for lieutenant, and I would always make it into like the top three in the state, like, but I would always get passed over by these big institutions. There wasn't a lot of opportunity to promote to lieutenant at as as I see it. There's only two positions, like those positions never came open, and if they did, they were transfers, they were existing lieutenants. And I was like, So I knew I was doing a good job. I knew that I was on the radar, but I just couldn't get picked up. And so the last time that I put in for it, I made it to the top three again. There were only three interviews left. I made it into the top three, and I got passed up again, and I was like, dang it. So so I went to my deputy warden at the time, and I was like, dude, and we him and I were super close. Like I knew him when he was a sergeant, he knew me when I was an officer. And uh, do you remember Davis out there? Tyrell, Tyrell Davis, yeah, yeah. So that that guy I have an utmost respect for. He's a warden now in St. Anthony, but um Yeah, he was the warden when I was working at SEI.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

I think he just transferred to St. Anthony a couple last year, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Yeah, and so I I went to him and I was like, dude, I was like, why can I not get lieutenant? Like, why do I keep getting passed up? And he's like, dude, he's like, and all those guys talk, you know, they know, and they they all talk amongst themselves on who they're gonna promote. And so I said, I need you to be honest with me. I said, I need you to tell me what I can do differently. And he's like, the only thing you can do differently is go to a big prison. Go to a bigger facility, get your name out there because we all know that you're killing it here, but we're on our own island out here. You know, we're a small facility, we're at the end of the road, and it's hard to we can advocate for you all all day long, but people are gonna promote what what they know, what they know they're gonna get. And that's the safe zone. We're we're gonna we're gonna do that. And so I was like, all right, man. So I at this time I was the operations and training guy, and I had a cushion schedule working Monday through Friday, eight to four. If I wanted to take a day off, it was really easy to do that. If I wanted to come in late or leave early, I could do that. But I wanted to make a change, I wanted to take my influence and make it greater. And so I said, transfer me. I said, I'll I'll give up everything I have, I'll I'll do whatever it takes. And so I said, transfer me. So I reached out to ISEC. I said, Hey, do you guys have any open sergeant positions over there? And um he said, absolutely. Like, we'll take you next week. Like that as soon as this pay period's over, we'll take you, and we'll take you as a sergeant. But that was my foot in the door because I knew that if I got over there as a sergeant, I could show them what I could do, and then I could hopefully get promoted to lieutenant. So I gave up everything. I gave up my cushion schedule, my office, my desk job, everything because I wanted to make a difference and uh wanted my influence to be greater, and so and so I uh I transferred over there and and um and started working as an ASC. And so it kind of felt like a demotion because I went from like being the guy that didn't have to ask permission to do anything, like whatever I whatever decision I make is was that was the final decision. And so then I went over there as an ASC, and then I had a shift commander I had to answer to. So it was kind of it kind of felt like a demotion, but I knew it was for the greater good, like it was a temporary thing, yeah, like a temporary sacrifice. And so I went over there and I there was a big boy prison, you know, a lot different, and uh, you know, a lot more uses of force, a lot more stress, a lot more staff to manage, a lot more units, a lot more inmates. But I I loved it, and it it was it was a good experience for me. And so I started out as an ASC. I gave up that awesome schedule for um for a for an RDO schedule. So I had two graveyards and two day shifts and had to rotate my schedule. So I gave up all that and and uh started doing that, and I did that for I think there was like four months left in the bid year. And then I uh put in for ex yeah, every exempt post I could I could think of, you know, and and so I and ended up getting picked for for D Block Um as a sergeant there and and uh did that for another six months and uh then ultimately left the prison. But but D Block, that was a that was a challenge. That was a challenge. I took that unit over from a sergeant that did not care and let let those guys pretty much run the show. And um, so I I didn't have any gray hairs in my beard until that year, and I've never been able to get rid of them since. But super stressful. Like a lot of staff, a lot of personalities, a lot of a lot of personalities that didn't necessarily get along within the inmate population. Like I knew they weren't being managed correctly, I knew that we weren't holding them accountable, I knew they were bringing in drugs, I knew that they were because that D block was like a closed custody PC unit. And yeah, and what I found is what I what I didn't want to do is come in and make a jet big change. I wanted to come in and sit in the chair and walk with my staff and and just figure out how it was running now, and then gather information before I made any big changes. And that and to me, being a leader, that's what you should do. You should evaluate and just understand what the processes are before you make a change. And so I was just talking to everybody, talking to my staff. I recruited all my guys, and I I brought in a really good crew, and I relied on them a lot because that was a new facility for me. And I was like, hey, I get I'm the guy with the three stripes, but that doesn't mean anything. We're all a team here, and like we we have to work together. I'm here for you. And so what I found is that those guys in there were using PC close custody as a way to get more more flexibility. It was ran differently than G Block was. There was more flexibility for those G those close custody guys in D block than there was in G Block. And they used that to run their, they were still on the gangs, they weren't dropped out, they were still running drugs. I knew all this stuff. And I was like, you guys are using this as a as a loophole. You found a loophole in the system. And so I started putting the screws to them. I pulled up like all the sanctions that they had from all their DURs and all these property restrictions and stuff. And um I was like, man, what this guy, all these guys still have TVs, all these guys still have their JP5s or whatever those things are called. Like, I'm like, this isn't right. And so, you know, I slowly started implementing all those property restrictions, and then all the walks were huge. Like the walks were like eight cell walks. I was letting 16 guys out at a time, and and I was like, nope. I was like, these guys aren't behaving, these guys aren't doing what they should be. We're lowering these walks down to four cell walks, and what that did obviously is you know, that limited the amount of time out there, they were out because I lowered it from eight to four. There's only so much time in a day. And so I got a lot of pushback, a lot of pushback, and um, a lot of threats, a lot of grievances, a lot of lawsuits. I'm actually still going through two lawsuits from that unit, still to this day. And it's been five years since I've been out of there, but geez. Um but yeah, I just I knew that they were they were they were putting the wool over over the last administration's eyes and I said this isn't gonna happen and so what what slowly started to occur and I knew that I was doing the right thing because of it is all of a sudden we started getting all these inmates that were checking out of PC and they said I want to go back to G block. Let me go back to G block, get me out of here. And I knew I was doing the right thing, I knew I was holding them accountable, and uh, and they realized that they weren't gonna get away with it anymore. But it was super stressful, man. Like constant fights, you know. I had a close custody PC, I had a medium custody PC, and I had a GP tier. So it was just it's a lot, it's a lot to manage. Yeah. But yeah, and then so yeah, I ended up ended up leaving leaving uh that's like the summer of 2020.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

What was the what was the harder population when you were at Siki, the men or the women? The women by far. I never I never worked with them specifically, but when they were on my bus and I'd pick them up from the North Dorm and stuff. Yeah, it was the worst. It was the loudest buses we had going to Pocatello, and I can't imagine working in Pocatello full time, but yeah, and so I was at at SICI when we implemented the PRC building to be women.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

I was like a part of that whole process. Dude, like managing female inmates is way more challenging than men, especially if you're a man, like it's it's hard. Like, okay, we never really knew what it felt like to be a female walking on a tier in a with men, but like being a man walking a female tier, dude. Oh my gosh. Like it was uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Yeah. And uh, dude, it was and they're gross, and they're gross, they they are not like grossed as in a I mean they are, they're but also like the things that they say are just like they should be X-rated kind of stuff. What are you yeah, you definitely you definitely feel um you feel the women officers in that sense?

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Yeah, it makes you appreciate what those females go through. Yeah. Um, yeah, it was and they they you know, I in my course of time out at the prison, like I I saw the most staff get get uh compromised at sticky than I ever saw in my career anywhere else. Um it's insane. Um it was sad to see because these are like people I was friends with. These are people that like I I went out for beers with them, you know. Like I I never imagined that these people would give up their family, would give up their children, would give up their life for an inmate, you know, and it just when it happens, it blows your mind.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Looking back, what do you think are like the correlations of the people that decide they want to I don't they don't decide they want to get compromised, but it just happens. But like, do you think it's something of their home life, they're not seeing enough attention? Do you think it's just something that they just the inmates are really good, all they have is time, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

But yeah, I think it comes down to they're ultimately not happy at home, maybe their marriage isn't good, or or maybe they have low self-esteem. And it's not most of the time, it's as you know, it's not a fast process. It's like I gave them like a an extra meal from the chow hall, you know? It starts there, like, oh, here's an extra one, you know. And then before you know it, you're having inappropriate conversations, you may have shared something in your personal life. Once you do that, they got something on you. And hey, you remember that one time you told me that? Like, remember that one time you did that for me? Like, I don't want to have to tell anybody, but I will. Like, it's game over at that point. And so I was always I was always really uh never personable with the female inmates. Um, the males, like, I was never personable with them, but I would have a lot more laxadaisical conversations with them that I would never have with a female inmate. Um, just because I did not want to open that corridor. Um, and the the females are different, they're so manipulative, they're so so cunning.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

They're um Do you think more male officers get get um what's the word get you know from from female inmates, or do you think that there's more more female officers that get compromised from male inmates?

SPEAKER_00 48:24

Oh, it's hard. I mean, based on my memory, I saw it about 50-50. Um, but I saw the most staff. And you know, I wasn't it was easier to be involved in it at a smaller facility than it was at like ISCI or ISCC. There was a lot of it that happened there too, but there's so much more staff. And so it's like harder, like, oh, did you see that officer got walked off the yard today? Like, oh yeah, you know, but you don't really know like what happened. But when I was a shift commander at Siki, I was sometimes I was involved in the investigation. Sometimes, sometimes I would have information that even the management team didn't have. And uh, so I was a lot more a lot more involved in it because you know that's the leadership team's different at a smaller facility. Like as a sergeant, you're kind of like treated like you're a part of the management team there. You know, you're kind of in in those conversations. Uh at ISCC, if you're a sergeant, there's like 30 of them, you know. At the farm, there's six or eight, you know, so it's they rely on you more. And I just saw I saw a lot of people get compromised there. And uh the staff that I never thought would. Um and it it was it was hard to see, you know. These are people that I was friends with, people that I would talk to outside of work. And um it just blows blows your mind when you see it and you feel bad for them because you know that they made a huge mistake, and now they know they made a huge mistake, but it's too too late now. You know, you wish you would have they would have asked for help, but uh it's if you don't have your guard up, and that's in life too, if you don't have your guard up, it's uh it's easy to get manipulated for sure.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

Did you ever have any other female inmates turn in other females that were compromising staff like because they got jealous or anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Oh yeah, there was a lot of that. Um, there was a lot of that, but also they weren't always truthful, they were just trying to stir the pot. So just because you get uh some intel doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Right. You know, some you had to really look into it and find evidence, watch cameras, do interviews. Um but usually where there's smoke, there's fire, you know? And so um, yeah, it I I saw it a lot, and it really hurt me because these are people that I I supervise and I was like, man, like I wish you would have said something to me. I wish you would have came to me and said you were struggling, like I would have helped you out, you know, I would have gave you guidance or friendship or leadership or mentorship, whatever it looked like at the time. But sometimes you can't you can't help the people you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink, you know.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Did you ever have anybody like self-turn themselves in? Like, I think this I think this conversation went a little bit too far. Like, what should I do? Asking for that help? Or they just kind of always try and take care of it by themselves. Uh I've never seen anyone come clean. They always had to be pulled in and I wonder how that would turn out if they did like just a walking situation rather than like, or like, you know, I wonder if they maybe move them facilities or something, or I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I always know that honesty was best policy with iDoc. Yeah, or any any place, like if you told on yourself it was a lot better.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

That's like of anything and any job, really. But what I learned at IDoc is someone's gotta fall. Someone's gonna fall for it because they gotta, it's a state agency, there's news reporters, there's the governor, there's a state house, there's all that. They can't have bad publicity. So if there's someone, something that happens, someone's gonna be the fall guy. Yeah, you know, that that's I was there for a long time, so are you. You know how it is. Like right, there's always gotta be that guy that's the we well, we dealt with it, you know. Right. You know, with this person no longer works here.

SPEAKER_01 52:11

That's what I tell everybody. They're like, that's the best advice I can give you working out of the prison. It's like if you mess up, just be honest. Just right, right up front. Yeah, one time uh when I was working for Miller in his unit, I I had popped that can of that Mark IX on myself like three months prior. So I was really nervous about getting up on top bunks to check with my Mark 9 anymore. So every time I get on, I would like just set it on the inmates' table in G block, and then get it back and put it put it back in my holster, right? Yep. There was uh we had we had a big lockdown, whole unit lockdown where we had cert come in and X-ray machines and everything with cell to cell looking for weapons and all that, put take the four inmates out, put them in the showers, lock them up, check everything, right? So we did that. I check their cells, I go to top bunk, put my in put my mark nine on their table, and then get down, go get the inmates, put them back in. I'm walking out of the tier, and I pat myself down, and I was like, uh oh, I left my mark nine in their cell.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

That is not good. That was the yeah, I was like, oh my gosh. Luckily, it was like a soft walk, and it was the very last cell. But I I was I walk up to them and I'm I'm like, oh my gosh, either they're gonna spray me or something. I was like trying not to tell anybody about it, and I went up to them and they're just laughing their ass off inside the cell. And uh, I just was like, I'm just gonna try this out. I opened up the bean slot and they handed it to me. I was like, oh thank god.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

I would have put a good C note in for him or something.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

Oh, dude, I gave them extra lunches that whole week. I was like, your extra lunch is extra breakfast. But immediately after I did that, I went to Miller's office and I was like, This is what happened. I did this.

SPEAKER_00 53:52

I'd rather you find out from me than yeah then uh yeah, he's he's one of the good ones that would he's got your back.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

Yeah, so we did. We I had to read the whole policy on tool control and everything like that. And there was a you know, the good it was in my file and stuff, but uh I was like, I do not want I'm just lucky that nothing else happened. Like if they would have just started spraying me or oh my gosh. I could have gone bad really, really bad for sure. Yeah, yeah. But that at that moment I was like, I gotta go tell on myself because there is no way that I'm gonna wait till later on down the road and there's reviewing cameras for something completely different, and they see like how did they hand you a Mark 9 through the happen there? Why didn't you tell us?

SPEAKER_00 54:33

I'm like, oh yeah, that would have gone, that would have been a completely different conversation for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a kind of a weird scenario. I was do you remember inmate Freedly? Uh uh. No. So anyway, this guy was locking down ISCC every day for oh man, for like a month. Like every day he was doing something stupid. And I was the ASC at for this time during this time period, and every day I was suiting up the team, every day I was going down there because he was covering his window. Um, and uh I I had him in handcuffs and I brought him into one of the front holding cells by medical, and I released him, and he wouldn't give me my handcuffs back. But this is like the 27th, you know, security emergency we had had on him in like four weeks, dude. We're the facility was tired of him. And so um my supervisor who was running the shift that day told me, he said, you go down there and you give him a direct order to give you uh for him to give you your handcuffs back. And if he doesn't do it, you're gonna spray him with your Mark IX. I know what policy says, you're not supposed to spray inmates with handcuffs on. Like, you're not. And I was like, Are you sure? Yeah, capital punishment, right? Like, that's what you want me to do. You want me to douse him with my Mark IX if he refuses to give me my handcuffs back? He said, Yeah. I said, Okay. I was like, as long as you you're you're like gonna stand behind your order, like I'll do it. So I go down there with the A team and the B team, and I walk up to the cell and I tell him, I was like, hey, I was like, you're gonna give me my handcuffs. I'm gonna give you direct order to give me my handcuffs back. And if you don't do it, I'm gonna spray you. And he's like, you can't spray me. And I was like, I'm telling you right now, if you if you don't give me my handcuffs back, I'm gonna give you one more direct order. If you don't, I'm gonna, I'm gonna spray you. And he's like, you can't. I said, okay. I said, are you gonna give me my handcuffs back? He said, nope. So I told one of the guys, I said, pop the utility port. I douse him with my Mark IX. Then the warden comes in at about 8 30 that morning. He walks straight to my desk and he says, Why did you spray him with uh with OC when he was in handcuffs? He must have really wanted your handcuffs back. And I was like, Oh boy. So I looked over at the lieutenant and I said, like, hey man, this is like your time to to tell him, like, you these are your orders, man. Thank goodness he vouched for me and said, like, those are my orders. I told him exactly what to do, and he followed my orders. And I I didn't get held accountable for it, but they you know, there's a lot of that out there, and it's just CYA, communicate, throw yourself on your sword if you make a mistake. But there was a lot of issues like that. It's like there's some gray area, and I had you know weird circumstances, like I was doing it on you know, a controlled release in A-block. The only thing this inmate had on his personal property file was his pair of underwear. And he's like, Sergeant Taylor, please just don't cut my underwear. I promise you I'll give them back to you. You guys can do the unclothed body search, but please don't cut them off. Like, I'm gonna freak out if you do. He's like, Sergeant Taylor, I have the utmost respect for you. Please just don't cut my underwear. I had a lieutenant standing behind me in the in the in the like the day room part of ABlock, and he's like, You're gonna cut those, you're gonna cut those. And I was in the cell hands-on with my team. I made the decision not to cut them off. I, you know, what is he gonna do? Walk in there and tell me, like, you're gonna cut them off right now. Like, he's not gonna get involved. But he was telling me, like, you're gonna cut him off. And I I just felt in my heart at the time that I felt like he was gonna, he was gonna follow through with what he said he was gonna do. And he was gonna give me his underwear after we did the controlled release and secured the door. So I made that executive decision, and he stands up and he he I opened the utility port and he said, Thank you so much, Sergeant Taylor. I really appreciate that. And he gave me his underwear, and uh it was a it was a positive experience, and I gained a lot of trust with that inmate. Very problematic inmate. We always had issues with him, but he you know how it is, like once you develop a rapport with certain inmates, they don't want to deal with anybody but you, you know, and it was one of those situations where he trusted me, and I got written up for that, you know. The next day I got pulled in and got written up for that. I'm like, really? Like, this was a positive outcome. Like there was a gray area here, and I chose, I chose to do something that I felt was right for this person, you know. He doesn't have anything. This is the only thing he has, and the only thing he cares about in the world today, you know, and and it was just it was a weird situation, but I I stood behind, I said I made the right decision, I'll sign your paperwork. But like it, it's sometimes there's there's not it's not always black and white, you know, and sometimes you just gotta follow what you feel is right in the moment. And I said, I'll I'll sign your paper if that if that makes you feel better, you know.

SPEAKER_01 59:36

But I feel like you gotta have a gray area, especially in close custodies or any of those special populations. Like what's giving them a DOR gonna do when they're already locked down 23 hours a day.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

Yeah, sometimes you gotta think outside the box, man. So many of these guys have so many DORs, and they're never gonna not see close custody. You gotta a DOR doesn't mean anything to them. You gotta you gotta figure out a different way to to approach it. And uh that's what I like doing. I liked thinking outside the box, and I like treating people the way that I would like to be treated if I was in their shoes. You know, it's not just because I wear a badge doesn't make me better than you. It just means I never got caught, right? Like I made bad decisions when I was a kid growing up. You know, I could have been in jail probably a few times as a kid growing up for stupid things that I did. And so I just always viewed it as like, just because I'm here wearing a badge doesn't make me better than you. Like I'm just doing a job, you know, and your life choice has made you where you're at, my life choice has got me to where I'm at. But I'm not here to hold you accountable, I'm here to just maintain law and order. Like, it's not you're already being punished, you're already in prison. Like, it's not my job to punish you. Like, you're already doing your punishment. Like, I'm just here to maintain law and order. And if you treat me with respect, I'll treat you like my next door neighbor. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's just how I did it. And I mean, I could walk into that, it's been six years, and I could walk into most of those tears, and I could probably, you know, I wasn't afraid to shake inmates' hands. Like some inmates were like, or some officers, like, I'm never gonna shake an inmate's hand. Like those inmates that I I wouldn't shake anybody's hand, but if I've if I had known you for years and we had a mutual respect with each other, as a sergeant, I would walk on the tier and shake your hand all day long. Absolutely. And that's once you extend your hand to them, like that changes the game. Like it's he he respects me enough to shake my hand. I'm an inmate. Like, why would you do that? And that's something I weren't learned from from one of the wardens that I had. Like, I saw him do that and I was like, that's weird. Like, you know, and then I I I adopted that philosophy of like, I've known you for five years, now I've known you for six years, we've had some had some rough times, we've had some good times, but at the end of the day, like just extending your hand to them, like it means the world to them. And I would tell my staff the same thing. I said, I don't expect you to shake everyone's hand. Like, that's not what I'm telling you to do. I don't walk the tears and just shake everyone's hand. But once you develop a certain relationship of mutual respect, I'm never gonna fault you for shaking an inmate's hand. I'm not gonna think you're compromised if you shake an inmate's hand. Like that that is part of the the culture that we should be creating. And uh that's something I always followed. Like, I would, I would love, I'd love doing it. Like, I just would walk the tiers with my staff and they would see me do it. They'd be like, why are you doing that? And uh, why not? Like, why not? Like, there's there's nothing wrong with shaking someone's hand. And so, like, I most of the times when I got concern forms or grievances, I would go out on the tier and I would sit at the day room table and I would talk to the inmate about their concern. And I'd said, if you want me to write this down on paper and give you a response for your grievance, I will because for your paper trail. But if we can resolve this face to face and I can write on your concern form this issue was addressed on such and such a date, I'll do that too. And so sometimes they would tell me to pound sand, I don't want to, I want this on paper for my paper trail, but other times it was like, hey, we can talk about this man to man and resolve it right here. And that's every time I got a concern for them, I would go onto the tier and meet with them face to face. And that's just it's just about being a leader and and like that, they they they respected that, you know. I wasn't hiding behind my door, I wasn't hiding behind my computer screen, like, oh, this inmate has a concern. Let's let's go talk about it. And I would usually take my corporal with me and I would try to install that into their leadership skills. Oh, you want to be a sergeant someday? This is this is how I do things, and I would try to install that in my staff too. And it's it's just about changing the culture. It doesn't need to be this animosity all the time. I'm sure there is that, there's plenty of that, but if you can make it somewhat pleasant, you know, why not? You know, and so that's just I really miss some of the I would never go back, but I I did I do miss the leadership part. Like, like I had aspirations to be a captain, I wanted to be a warden, I wanted to be, I wanted to be make change, you know, and so sometimes uh you know, I think about it, man, like what if I was still there? But I know I made the right decision, and where I'm at today is it's a lot better, a lot less stressful. I have a better schedule and I'm with my family more and I'm not as stressed at home. But like it just talking about it, it's been a long time since I've talked about it, but I almost get emotional just talking about it because it like it was so important to me. Is just the culture. I just had the worst supervisors, like my first few years there. Like, how are you a sergeant? How are you a leader? Like, this makes zero sense. What separates the good leaders from the bad leaders? To me, it's don't expect anybody to do what you're not willing to do yourself. Like, go out and do a cell search. Just because you have a bar or uh or three stripes doesn't make you better. It just means you have more ability to make a change, you have more influence. And the inmates, I mean, obviously they're respected to rank more, but it's just it's just about being doing what what you're expecting of others. Like you should never tell someone that they have to do something that you're not willing to do. Like, that's what it's all about. And I'm super passionate about it. And I kind of forgot how passionate about it I was until we started talking about it, but like I just remember being an officer, and I was like, if I ever make rank, like I'm gonna change the narrative, I'm gonna change the tr the trajectory of the way that this is going. Because I'm tired of people treating like I'm tired of supervisors treating officers like they're scum and they don't mean anything. Like these guys are doing a hard job. And like, I loved bringing in pizza, like, I loved taking. My staff out for lunch. Like, I loved giving my my staff days off. Like, hey, you need Friday off because you want to go take your family to Lagoon. There's no one to cover your shift. I'll cover your shift for you. Like, that's what it's about. And I wish there was more of that out there, and I hope there is still. But it's if everyone did that, like it would have been, it would have been such a better place to work, you know. And so I just always had when I finally got that call that day that I was going to get promoted to sergeant, I'm like, this is the time. Like, I'm going to make change. And uh I just I loved being a shift commander because as a shift commander, as you know, like that it depends on who it is that day, you know whether it's gonna be a good day or a bad day, or whether we're gonna be walking on eggshells, or we're gonna have a nice chill day, and we know we're gonna see him in the tears. We know he's gonna come sign our logbook. Like you knew, like, oh, we're never gonna see that guy today. Or we know he's gonna come down, and we know he's gonna sit down with us and ask us how our day is going to actually care. You know, that's the difference. And it, you don't know what it might not mean anything to some people, but to some people it's gonna mean a lot. And so that's that's really what I liked about my time out there. And I wanted to, I wanted to go higher, I wanted to do better things, but it just didn't work out.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:17

And so did you ever have any of those conversations with inmates that later on you followed up with them and you could tell that those conversations you had made a difference in their life?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:26

Absolutely. I mean, I got tons of inmates swimming through my head right now that I wish I could just go walk the tears today, and not as an officer, just in street clothes, like on a tour. I wish I could go see them. I wish I could go shake their hand. I wish I could go ask them how they're doing or how their you know, addiction's going, or how their family's doing, or how their kids are. Just, you know, it's like not everyone cares. But if you take the time to just ask, like if we're there for eight hours anyway, why not ask? Like we have nothing better to do but sit at our tier in the bubble or the control center or whatever, like, and do what? Like, why not just go make someone's day brighter? Why not go ask them, how can I help you? Like, I have some life experience. What are you going through? Like, I I used to, when I was in D Block, I had this really challenging inmate that like he he he was had severe mental health, he was a close custody guy, he had no money, couldn't make phone calls. And like I once a week I would let him come into my office, and this was documented, and I would put it in his file, but I would let him use my phone. I would let him use my phone to call us call his kid once a week because he had no money, he had no way to talk to him. And I would let him come into my office and he would sit in my deck, my my chair right across from my desk, and I would what's the number? I'd dial the number for him and I'd let him just talk and I'd be, you know, typing up emails or writing reports or whatever, but like that's what it's all about. Like there we have that ability to do it, so why not? Like, why not? It doesn't always have to be black and white, you know. There's and so like I just loved loved pushing the envelope a little bit and trying to change the culture. And that's that's one thing that's kind of hard for me because I wish, you know, I could have stayed and you know, maybe it wasn't the right thing. God took me to where I'm at today for a reason, but like I I really did enjoy it. Like, there's so many officers that are going through my head too that I would just love to like talk to, you know, and just walk the tears and just just I just missed that part. You know, there's a lot of lot of stuff I hated about it, a lot of stuff I didn't like, but but as a supervisor, you can control your environment, you can control your unit, you can control your shift, you can control your staff, you can control the culture. And that's what I liked, is like I could I can control the culture on my shift. I maybe not be able to control the culture amongst the whole department, but I can make sure that my shift feels cared for. And that was like the most important thing for me. Like I loved, I loved writing letters of appreciation for people. Like, why does it always have to be a letter of reprimand? Like, why can't you just write good things about people? It's all we talk about is the negative. Like, there's a lot of good things that happen too, but no one writes that down, you know, and so I would just every month I would be like, I'm gonna write. I used to have a goal for myself. I'd write, you know, two to three to four um positive letters for people um and put it in their file, just because who does that? Not that many people do that. They're always just focused on, oh, you messed up, I gotta write you up for this. But it's like, why? Do it the other way, you know? And so it was just, it was, it was really fun. Like I really enjoyed my time there. And it came, you know, it came to my an abrupt end, and we'll kind of get into kind of get into what what you know what I've been through the last four or five years. But um, like I I did not plan on leaving when I left. I just I just left. You know, I didn't say goodbye, I didn't have a have a party, I didn't, you know, it was it was just I was in a really weird time in my life, and I just walked out. And and I wish I could have said goodbye to some people, um, but ultimately it was the first first step in a long road of where I came to today.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:21

But yeah, you left at the peak of COVID too.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:24

Yeah, I was right in the midst of that, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:26

How was that when COVID took over as a leader? Oh, it sucked, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:30

It was super stressful.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:32

Um especially in a unit where they're already locked down, and now you gotta lock them down even more.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:37

Yeah, it was stressful. Like, just it put a lot more work on the officers too, like just having to feed everybody and and having to do scheduled rec time, and it was hard on the inmates, I'm sure, but it was really hard on the staff. Really hard on the staff. Um, just medical call-outs, medical appointments, um visitation, you know, pretty much was canceled, but just all the the the needs, not the wants, but the needs that we had to meet. It was challenging. It was really challenging, super stressful. Um, and the staffing levels were terrible. And uh to 24-7, 365 gig, as you know, doesn't matter if there's not enough staff, you're gonna work overtime. And it was hard. I hated telling people that they had to work overtime. Like it was really hard for me. Um, but I understood it because I remembered, I never forgot where I came from. Like, that's one thing that people forget is when they get rank or they get promoted at any job, is they forget where they come from. They forget what it's like to get that phone call and saying you gotta hold over, and you had your your two-year-old son's birthday party tonight at Chuck E. Cheese, and you can't go. Like, like that that that stuff hurts. That I hated making those phone calls. Um But it was it was hard. It was really hard for staff, it was hard for for a lot of supervisors. Um, it was just a chaotic time. Um, but yeah, I left left right in the middle of that. Um, and that was an instant relief, but um I did not want to leave that way. I didn't want to leave abruptly, but you know, I was making making poor choices in my personal life at the time, and I I I left because of that, you know, and so um, but it all now that I look back to 2020 and then I now it's 2026, everything that happened from then to now, it was all by design. Everything, every mistake I made, every poor choice I made, all the good choices I've made now, it was it was a God thing. I just didn't feel it didn't feel like that at the time, like at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:55

And did you have a faith any of this time when your prison time, or did you kind of go away from after high school?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:00

I went away after high school, so um, yeah. When I was 20 years old, I'd never like all through my 20s, I never went to church. Um And you were drinking quite a bit during the 18 to 20 era, you said, right? Yeah, yeah, no, I was thought I was cooler than I was. You know, I had my first m moved out right after high school, had my own house. I could do whatever I wanted to do. Oh, you bought your own house? I didn't. I was renting a house from my grandma.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:29

Um, just paying like$250 a month for rent, you know, just like I thought I owned the world, man. I was like, I got my own place, I can do whatever I want. And I I just, you know, I started drinking, but it never got me in trouble during that time. Um, and then I, you know, got, you know, found out that not even my girlfriend, I mean, she was my girlfriend through high school, but I found out that she was pregnant and uh we weren't really seeing each other very often back then. Uh we had split up and it just kind of happened, and I found out I was gonna be a father. So I got I got responsible um all through my 20s. I was really responsible, but I did not have God in my life at all. Like I was I was in control. I was Travis has got this, I got a good job, I got the house, I got the boat, I got the truck, I got the jet skis, I got the money. I'm good. Like I don't need God, you know, and so I drank all through my 20s. Um and then yeah, and then when I started, I I was always kind of a drinker, you know, but it wasn't ever over the top. It was just social. Um, and then when something bad happens in your life, all your all your your your addictions, if you will, um, or or or just things that you do, they they they can become addictions. And so for me, like really why I'm here today is to kind of talk about this. But um, you know, when I was in 2020, you know, I was married. I had a daughter who was eight years old. I had a beautiful home. I had everything that anyone would ever want. I had a great, you know, great career going. I had it all. And it was, but I didn't go to church, I didn't think about God, I didn't pray. Um You said your daughter got baptized when she was eight, so it was that same year. Yep, yeah. And uh, you know, it was a really good time in my life. I was really pretty happy. Um I was I I never thought that I was gonna make it to this in my adult life. Like I had everything that I wanted materialistic wise. And I was like, man, it life couldn't get better, you know. I had cows in the field, I had had the nice house, I had it all, man. And uh I got cocky. And and so at this time, it was 2020 or 2019 going into early 2020, mostly 2019 though, the end of 2019. Um, my marriage wasn't great. I wasn't really uh putting a lot of work into my marriage. Um my wife at the time, we didn't really have any intimate relationship, we didn't really tell each other we loved each other. It was more of a business arrangement. Like we got to run a household, we have a kid we're raising, but my marriage wasn't great. And at the time, I had just transferred to a new prison. I was working a crappy shift, I was running a farm. Uh, my wife at the time was working terrible hours, so I was like running the farm, trying to sleep, um, trying to be a good dad, trying to be a good employee. And I was burning the candle at both ends. Like I was I was burnt out. And my wife at the time knew I was burnt out. She's like, Travis, like, you need to take a vacation, like you need to do something for yourself. Like, I can see it. You're not in a good place. And uh, and I was not in a good place at all. And uh was starting to drink a little bit more, starting to take shots of whiskey before I went to work, um, just just starting to kind of start to drink a little bit more than I I should be. And like I would literally like, and I'm not here to like not uh not tell all the dirty stuff, like that's what I'm here to do. Um, like I would literally take four shots of whiskey while my diesel truck was warming up before I went in for shift. Like I would just, and it didn't even phase me because my tolerance level was so high, like it just mellowed me out. And then before I knew it, you know, I was grabbing some road beers on the way home from work and drinking them on the way home and stuffing the cans underneath my truck seat. Like I didn't care. I thought I was invincible. And um, and so my marriage was on the brink of you know collapse, and maybe not to her, but to me it was. And we weren't talking about it. I just was shouldering all this, and and so um ultimately what what happened is I got attention from another another woman, and uh ultimately in a very abrupt way decided to leave my my wife and my my family just for for what you know at the time it it felt like this was the right decision, and it absolutely was not the right decision at the time, but at the time it felt that it was, and uh, and so over the course of like two weeks I didn't even know this person very well. And um, you know, it starts small, you know, when you do something like that, and it's easy to judge people. I'm sure I was judged immensely for it. Um, but no one understands what someone's going through, you know, and it's easy to look at it and be like, man, this guy's a dirtbag. And I was a dirtbag for what I did. Um, but and it and and people they love to talk about the negative side of things. Oh, look what Joe's doing, or look what Sam's doing, you know. But I I left my family, you know. I literally did it overnight, you know. One day I woke up and I was I was out. Like I left my daughter, I left my wife, I left my farm, left all the animals, I left everything. And um, and it was hard for me because I knew that everybody at that prison knew what was going on. Like everybody knew. And uh what is what is Travis, what is Sergeant Taylor doing? He's you know, but to me, I I I was doing the right thing. And uh I didn't care what anyone else thought. And and today, to this day, I don't really care what people think about me, but I think about it in a different way. It's hard to explain. But then it was just I was stubborn and I was like, I don't care what you guys think about me. And and so it was really hard because I I I built up such a like uh uh an importance of what people did think about me that I knew that my reputation was smashed. And like, what is this guy doing? Like, he just left his family, like he's making terrible decisions, he just left his wife for another woman, and it's a terrible thing, like a it's an absolute terrible thing, and I've made amends for all that, you know, now. But back then I didn't care about anybody but myself. I didn't care about my daughter, I didn't care about my ex-wife and what she was going through at all. Like, I only cared about what I was doing. And um, I became a terrible supervisor. I was still at the prison at the time. It became all about me, and it was really hard for me to be there amongst staff because I knew that my reputation was tarnished, and I knew that what people were saying behind my back, and I knew that I, you know, I wasn't I was already committed, but I knew that I wasn't really making the best decisions at the time. Like, but it was already, I was already full in, you know, and so I had to just go. And and so it became really hard for me to be a supervisor and try to tell people how to how to be when I wasn't being the person that I was raised to be. And so that's ultimately why I left the prison because I couldn't live with myself. I couldn't look myself in the mirror, I couldn't look at staff in the eyes and give them advice because of the way that I was. Like I was like, I cannot do this. Like it's killing me to be here. And um, and so I left just overnight. Like I just went home one day, and I just sent an email. I said, I'm done. I just threw away a 10-year career, and ultimately now it's a blessing. But at the end, it was hard. It was like I just literally threw away my wife, my house, my daughter, everything, my career all at once. Like everything at once. And this was like two weeks ago, my life was great. You know, I could have worked on my marriage, I could have gone to counseling, I could have, you know, and and today looking back on it, I'm glad that we're not married anymore. Like, you know, we've made amends on that, and I'm I don't think she was the person I was supposed to be with for the rest of my life, but regardless of that, I should have never done it the way I did it. But at but at then that time I didn't care about anybody but myself. And so that's why I left the prison. I left the prison because I couldn't look at myself in the mirror, I couldn't give advice or leadership to anybody else because I didn't respect myself anymore. And so I just left. And and so my life was super chaotic after that. Um, I left my family, I went it all in on this girl that I barely knew. And and my family, my mom, my dad, my three brothers, they're all like, what are you doing? Like, they didn't know about any of this either until I did it, you know. They're like, Oh, I didn't even know you're having marriage problems, you know? And so, based on the way that I left my family and I got together with this other person, they didn't respect her. How could you do this? How could you be with a man that has a family? How could you even entertain this? And so, because of that, the person that I chose to be with at the time didn't get along with my family at all, and my family didn't get along with her. And so, for two and a half years, I didn't talk to my family at all. And I'm very close to my family. I talked to my brothers every day, I talk to my mom every day, and I didn't, I cut them all off for this one person, cut everything off, lost a career, lost my family, lost my my wife, lost everybody and everything for one person. And I hated myself, but I had to act like I didn't hate myself, and it was super hard. I had to, I've always been a fighter, and I had to press forward, and uh, and so I just faked it. I just created this mental block in my brain that I don't have a family, like this is my only person now. I'm gonna cut everybody else off. This is the only thing I have, and so I was with that person for two and a half years, and it was utter chaos um the whole time. Like I was fighting myself because I I I cut everybody else off, and I knew that in my heart that wasn't the right thing to do, but what other option did I have? Like, I was like, I already committed, I'm just gonna commit, and I'm just gonna go full in on this relationship. And so I made it last for two and a half years, and you know, I I was didn't know what to do for a career. I I had lost that, I had lost everything that I had built up throughout my whole 20s, didn't have God at the center of it, and and it just all crashed down. I mean, I was with this person for 2020, all of 2021, and partially into 2022 before it all came falling down. And we we had bought in uh bought in a place in Emmett, had a five-acre farm there, had 30 head of cattle, built a new life, right? But it was all based on material items. Like I had a nice house again, I had the cows again, I had the trucks again, I had the trailers, the four-wheelers, anything I ever wanted. Had all the money in the world, it was good, right? It's all materialistic items. But what slowly started to happen is over the course of those few years, it started to eat at me that I had cut everybody off in my family. I had no family, and that's what it's all about. I had nobody. I only had this person and her family. And I was like, what a you know, and it started to cause relate relationship problems because of that. I was like, it started to eat me up. And so ultimately that relationship crashed. And I I left I left all that stuff, all the all the cows, the house, the the trucks, the trailers, the four-wheelers, the shop, everything I had that I rebuilt again, and I left it again. So then twice now, I've lost everything in 2022. I'd lost everything again. And I'm like, what am I doing? Like, I'm just fumbling and fumbling and fumbling. There's another pick six, you know? And I'm like, what am I doing? So at this moment in my life, I didn't have God in my life. I had no material possessions again, which at this moment in my life, that's all I cared about. My self-worth was based on what I had and what I could show people. And I had no self-respect. So what did Travis do? Travis became an addict and became a severe addict. And so I started, I'd always been a social drinker, like we had said before, but this was on another level. Um I was a 32-year-old man who was acting like he was 21. You know, just going out to the bars, drinking all the time. And it became so bad, like, like it wasn't just going out with friends. Like I was I was an addict, 100% addict. You know, I I would drink before work. I would drink during work. I would drink after work. I would drink all night. And then I would start over in the morning and do it every single day. Um, and and it it it it I was managing it, you know, for a while. I wasn't a good father at that time. You know, I had I had got my family back. As soon as I left that relationship, I I re-estap re-established my relationship with my family. Um, I reestablished my relationship with my brothers, my mom, my dad. I got ever all the mended all those relationships. But Travis wasn't Travis. Like I was never like this in my life. And um, and I just I just didn't care. Like I wanted, I wanted to die. Like I didn't care. Like I I could have could have easily killed somebody easily with how how drunk I got on a daily basis, and I didn't care. Like I didn't even think about taking Ubers or calling someone to pick me up. I did not care. I would drink like I was had an Uber coming all night long, but I didn't have one coming because I just didn't care. And and so ultimately I I maintained that for six months, and then I got a DUI and um never been in trouble before in my life. And um What happened there? What's my DUI? So I uh was out with some friends at a poker party that I was working working with, you know, some friends that I was working with, and we we got together in the evening and I was drinking, and um and uh I chose not to drive my truck back to Meridian from Middleton, but I so I had taken about two and a half hours off of drinking, but I had drank a lot before that, so get back to a friend's house, I take the keys back, grab my truck, grab a beer out of their fridge, crack the beer as I'm walking to my truck because I don't care, and start driving down the road and uh get pulled over. And this was the night I think this was a God thing because I I could have been caught so many hundreds of other times and been way more drunk. This was the the night that God wanted me to get caught because I I was over the legal limit, but just slightly. I was like one 12-ounce beer over the legal limit. I could remember, I remember everything about the process, I remember the conversation, I remember everything. But, you know, I got a you know, pulled me over, asked me if I had been drinking, I said yes, and and uh had an open container at the time. I always had one. And uh, and so they, you know, pull me out, do the breathalyzer, all that stuff, blew just over the legal limit, still should have been caught many times, definitely not arguing that. And I took, I had a full beer still, I just cracked it open, and uh brand new truck, and I I'd shoved the beer underneath my passenger seat and dumped the whole thing out on a brand new floor. Didn't care. And ultimately got caught. They searched my truck, they found the open container, got charged with that too, went to jail, bailed myself out, complete depression, you know. I was already depressed, but I was happy when I was drinking. That's what people do. They mask when they're not when they're in addiction, they're not happy. And the only time that they are happy is when they're masking their their problems. And that's all I was doing. I was I hated myself, you know, so I was always masking. I was always on something. And and so, you know, got the DUI and just, you know, I just remember that day going to the next day. I had enough money at the time. I bailed myself out that night with cash, went to the ATM at the jail, bailed myself out. I knew I couldn't be in the jail. I was like, I'm gonna get killed in here. Like, I cannot be in here. So I bailed myself out, and um man, it just all the all those poor decisions, you know. I just never had dealt with them. I'd never dealt with even the the divorcing my wife and and leaving her. I never had dealt with that because I went from that to a new relationship. That relationship didn't work out, so I wasn't even dealing with any of those past problems. I never dealt with them until years later, and it all came crashing down on me when the second relationship fell apart and I lost everything again. That's when I was forced to deal with the problems. And rather than dealing with them, I just drank them. And um, and so got the DUI. I remember sitting in my bedroom. I had nothing at this time. I was living with my two little brothers in a rental house. I only had a bedroom to my name. Coming from where I came from, that was hard. Like I'm like literally renting a room with my two little brothers. Like, I've had so much more than this before. Like I've I had no self-worth. And uh I remember sitting in my bedroom. I drove my, I went to got my truck from Impound, drove it home, and I remember just sitting on the floor in my bedroom on the ground and just sitting there, and I'm like, what am I doing? Like, my life sucks so bad. Like, I can't even begin to tell you the depression. Like, and um, and so I quit drinking for a few months, and I don't really remember that time frame at all. I was probably miserable. And uh then I was like, I can I can start drinking again, you know, I can start doing this again. I'll be all right. You know, I learned my lesson, you know. I I can social drink. So I went to a you know, a jelly roll concert, and that's when I had my first beer again, and it was on like Donkey Kong again. Uh before I knew it, I was drinking all day long every day again, going to the bars all night, spending hundred hundreds of dollars a day on alcohol. And uh, and it just I had no quality relationships. I was dating all sorts of of women. I just it didn't even the relationships didn't even mean anything. I was just wanted companionship. I just wanted someone around because I hated being by myself. You know, I couldn't be alone because then I was forced to think about my thoughts, and and so it was it was super challenging. And so then another year goes by and I'm still in active addiction. Um, had gotten onto this stuff called Kratom, which I don't know if you've heard of that before, but yeah, people use it like to get off of heroin, right? It's terrible stuff. Um, I got really, really addicted to that. Not many people know that, only my really close family knows that, but I'm a huge proponent for advocating against that stuff. I got severely addicted to that. I was spending$600 a month on it. Um it's and what does it do for you? It's basically like opioids on steroids. Oh, it's like heroin. It's like legal though. I mean, you can go buy it at big stuff. It's like the same effects when people do suboxin to get off of it, but you take it by itself. Yep. So I got introduced to that, and it was just a feeling that I had never felt before. It was just a weightless, invincible feeling. And I once once I tasted it for the first time, it was game on. So then I had my alcohol addiction, I had the Kratom addiction, and Kratom is super expensive. The stuff that I was using, I was spending$40 a day on it times seven days a week, times 30 days a month. It's a lot of money. And I'd zeroed out all my bank accounts, had no money, maxed out, I'd never had a credit card in my life, maxed out a credit card. I spent my last$20 on my credit card on a bottle of Kratom. Like zeroed out my credit card with my last$20 to my name. That's how low I got. And um so after my DOI year year goes by, and um, I'm an active, active addiction at this time. Like just didn't want to be around anybody, isolatory, had no friends, didn't want to talk to people, didn't want to nurture relationships. And um so I went to go get a Papa Murphy's pizza um for dinner, and I never made it to Papa Murphy's. I don't remember what happened. I mean, it was a two, three-mile drive from the house. I was just going to get a pizza, never made it there. My daughter at the time, she was at home waiting for me. She doesn't know where dad's at. You know, I just disappeared. And so, long story short, on that part of it, like I uh was passed out in a parking lot in my car with the the the keys on, you know, like the motor was on. And I was drunk, I was on Kratom, you know, I was just strung out, you know. And at this point, everyone was tired of me. Like I all my family was tired of dealing with my addiction, and no one wanted to like my fiance now was my girlfriend at the time, and she was at work and she knew where I was at because of my location on my phone. And my mom is the only one that could come pick me up or come check on me. Mom's like, I'm done. Like, I'm not going to save him, I'm not going to help him. I'm done. He's gonna learn his lesson. And uh my mom's a my mom's a great woman, and I have a really good relationship with her, and she decided to come. And she came and found me. Don't remember her picking me up. We left my car there. And she drives me home, and I just like I even though I was an active addiction, I literally got home and I saw my daughter, and I'm like, wow, like I am a piece of crap father. Like, how could I do this to my daughter? Like, I went to go get her dinner and I never made it home. Like, how how how garbage of a father are you? And um, so it was it was like I was just so far in it. Unless you, unless you've experienced addiction, you can't speak to it. Like you can't. And it's it's a you it's hard to describe it, but once you get that far in, you either rip the band-aid off and go through the withdrawals, or you keep going. You just keep going with the addiction. And not everyone's I wasn't strong enough at the time to go through the withdrawals. And so I wake up the next morning and I'm just puking and puking and puking and puking. My body's, you know, I was using marijuana at the time, I was using Kratom at the time, I was drinking, I was on all everything you could imagine, you know. So my body's just jacked up, you know. I was doing anything I could to mask the pain. And so that day I had to get taken to the emergency room. I went to St. Al's and uh, or St. Luke's, sorry, in Meridian, and I was in the hospital for 12 hours in the emergency room, um, on IVs, all sorts of scans, just miserable pain. I can't even begin to describe to you the amount of pain I was in. And so my mom and my my fiance now are telling me I need to go to rehab. And I'm like, I'm not going to rehab, like I'm fine, I'm I've always been strong, like I've always been, you know, a fighter, like I can do this on my own. On that, I'll I won't do it anymore, I promise. And I was just lying to myself. And um, so you know, I get out of the hospital and they had already kind of talked to a couple rehab facilities and kind of understood what the process looked like to check in. And we're driving back home, and my mom's like, you need to go to rehab today. I'm like, I'm not going to rehab, like, I'll be fine. So then she's like, let me play something for you. And so she gets her phone out and she plays this recording of me, of me from the night before when she was driving me home from the parking lot that I was passed out in. And it was of me crying, begging for help, saying I can't do this on my own. Like, mom, please, anybody help. Like, I can't, I can't physically do this, I can't fight it. I need help. And it was, I, once I heard the recording on my mom's phone of myself saying that I can't do it, I told my mom and my my fiance, I said, I'll go to rehab. So I went to rehab, went for 30 days, was absolutely miserable. I'd never been in locked up before. I had never been told, you know, what to do from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed before. And like there was all these other people that were fighting addiction that at the time I was like, oh, I'm better than these guys. I've only, you know, used a little bit of marijuana and some alcohol and some kratom, which is legal. Like, I was just justifying everything. These guys are on heroin, fentanyl. Like, I just thought I was better than everybody in rehab. Like, I'm I'm better than all these people. And my head wasn't in it. I was just going through the motions. So I completed the 30 days and I got out. And I was basically like never been sober for ever in my adult life. You know, I'd, you know, even back before addiction, I was still drinking a beer or two at night after work. Like I'd never been sober ever. And it was overwhelming. Like I was like, I do not like it. I do not like me sober. Like, I do not like me at all. Like, I don't know how to be sober. I don't know what this feels like. And it was overwhelming, like overwhelming to not be on something. And um so when you go to rehab, they give you a bunch of pills, like it's like Skittles all day long, just on all this different stuff to manage your withdrawals, to manage your anxiety, to manage your stress. And then when you check out a rehab, they give you all those pills to take home. And so then I started abusing those. I I would pop 10 times the amount of anxiety pills that I should have been a day, you know, just to numb myself. But no one knew I was taking them. Like I was just like popping them like crazy just to just to get a feeling of being not sober again. And so I was out for 20 days, and I was driving with my fiance home, and I blocked out. Like I literally couldn't drive. Like I pulled over on the side of the road, like I couldn't figure out how to drive because I was so strung out on pills. And so I went back to rehab again. And my mom had to come pick us up because it was a stick shift. My fiance didn't know how to drive a stick shift. So my mom had to come. It my girlfriend or fiance had to get in my mom's car, drive her car home, and then my mom had to drive my manual home. And I was like, I'm in the same place again, you know. And um, and so I went back to rehab again, but this time I was mad. Like I was, I did not want to be there. My mindset was even worse than it was was the first time. Like I was fighting all the doctors in there, like telling them I don't, I'm not doing any of your programming, I'm not doing any of your classes, I don't need to be here, I can do this on my own. And I was meeting with the medical director saying, like, I'm I'm literally gonna walk out of this place if you guys don't let me out. Like, I'm going to walk out. And I stayed in my room 24-7. I didn't go to any classes, I didn't talk to anybody. I was completely just arrogant, and I'm better than all this. And so I forced myself out. I wasn't in there for 30 days. I was only in there for two weeks and fought myself out. They literally threw my bags by the front door, didn't even say goodbye to me. Like, literally threw my bags, I walked myself out. And and then it was a long road after that. It was a really long road, but I I'd never touched alcohol again. Ever. Um, but it that was back in man, that was I went to rehab in September of 2023. So uh this so September of 2025 was two years that I'd been sober, so I'm almost this this coming fall will be three years. Um and it wasn't easy, like I'm telling you, when I got out of rehab, like it it was it was hard. Um like I I didn't talk to anybody. I came home from I was able to go to work and that's it. And then I would come home from work and I would isolate and sit by myself with my fiance there. And I didn't talk to anybody, didn't do anything. I just isolated, isolated, isolated. I did not know how to be sober, I did not know how to did not know how to socialize with people outside of being under the influence. Because when I was under the influence, I was happy, go lucky, like let's go do something, let's have fun, let's laugh, let's joke, let's go out to dinner. I didn't know how to do anything sober. And um, it was so overwhelming. And so um, yeah, it was a long road. I started going to counseling and I met a phenomenal counselor, and I'd been seeing her for about two years. I just had my last appointment with her last month. I had seen her ever since I got out of rehab up until last month when I we both determined that I was finally able to be done because we just ran out of things to talk about. She's like, you're finally healthy. And so I was able to put that away last month. She'll be a lifelong friend for sure. Um, but outside of going to rehab the second time, I just had to grind. And that's when I found God, you know, um, which I wish God did all these things, put all these trials and tribulations in my life for a reason because he changed who I was. Um, I was a self, self-centered person. I only cared about myself and what my needs were. I didn't, if I was gonna do something for somebody, it was because I wanted something in return. If I do this for them, they're probably gonna give me like give me like a hundred bucks, or maybe they'll give me a gift card, or it was always self-serving. And then I started going to church. And like it wasn't just like the first week or the second week or even three, six months in. Slowly, God started working on my heart and changed me. What made you want to go to church? My my girlfriend was going to church at Rock Harbor, and and so I started going with her, but I was still pretty strung out on anxiety pills, and I was like literally like she has. I mean, you saw some of the the videos, but like I was just sleeping through church, like, or I wouldn't remember it, or we'd go to Costco after church, and I wouldn't remember going to Costco, and then it slowly, very, very, very slowly. So, yeah, September of 2023 was when I had my last drink. So September of 26 will be three years. Um, and it all I can say for for people that are going through addiction is you have to talk about it. Like it, there's probably gonna be people that are gonna watch this and they might judge me for some of the things that I've said. They might be like, man, I didn't know Travis used marijuana, I didn't know Travis used Kratom. At this point, I don't care, you know, because uh I know who I am today, and that's all that matters. It doesn't matter what I did in the past. If you don't talk about your past, the only reason I'm talking about my past is because I want to help people that are going through it. Because there's gonna be people that are gonna hear this or see it, and they're gonna relate to what it's like to be an active addiction. And if you don't get yourself help and put God at the front and your family second, you'll never make it. You just won't. It's an itch that you can never scratch unless you actually indulge in the addiction. It's always gonna be there. I'm not, I'm not here telling you that it's not easy or that it is easy to stay away from it. There's days I think about it. There's days I walk into the gas station, I'm like, man, like a nice cold beer sounds pretty good right now. But I remember where I was from and where I came from and where I was at, and I never ever ever want to go back to that. Um, and uh like it's it just talking about it, it doesn't really do a justice at all of actually what I went through. Um, but I can tell you that like just all those things that I did go through, God only turns up the volume enough to where you can handle it. It may seem unbearable at the time. Like, man, I don't think it could get any worse. It could have got a hell of a lot worse for me. Um, he could have turned up the volume a lot more, but he only turned it up enough for me to learn my lesson. And it was a long year's worth of lessons, starting in back in 2020 to now, you know, 2023. I went to rehab. I mean, that's three years right there, and I wasn't even healthy after I got out of rehab. Like it was a process. I went to a counselor every single week for two years just to beat the addiction. Um, because it was so instilled in my brain I couldn't stay away from it. You know, and even after I put alcohol down, I smoked marijuana for another year after that, you know, because I did I still didn't know how to be sober. Now I put the alcohol down, and my life got a heck of a lot better after I put alcohol down. And the marijuana helped me with stress and anxiety. And and it helped me get to where I'm at today. Now I don't use anything. Now I'm completely sober. Um, but even that Kratom stuff, you know, I stopped drinking alcohol in 2023, but from 2023 to last July of 25, I relapsed on Kratom last summer because I the itch is always there. You have to maintain your sobriety by keeping yourself in check every single day. It's a battle for me every day. I don't think about it every day, but I think about it sometimes. And if I'm not in the right mindset, or if I don't go to church, or if I don't keep those people in my life that are important to me close and talk to them, I would probably relapse again. Absolutely. Um, and so it's it's something that I'll probably struggle with for the rest of my life, but I would just tell people like not to isolate, because once you isolate, it's game over. You're only fighting yourself. You got the devil on one side and the angel on the other, and the devil wins most times with me.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:00

And so Yeah, what's the worst? What's the worst punishment you can get in prison? Solitary confinement, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:06

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I lose every time because you tell yourself it's going to be the last time. And that just makes it easier today because you just tricked your brain. Your brain knows you're lying. Your brain knows you're lying, but you make yourself feel better about it today because you're going to tell yourself today is the last time. Just someone just give it to your give it to yourself one more time. You deserve it. Just do it the one more time. And then tomorrow you do it again. You say, I'm going to tomorrow's the last. Today's the last day. And it's never the last time. You just tell yourself that every day, and you do it every day. But it justifies it. And so the best thing that I did was getting sober. But the most important thing, people go to AA. A lot of people go to AA. For me, AA didn't work. AA, AA, they talk about a higher power. And to people, that's something that could be anything. That could be your higher power, it could be anything. It could be your dog. But for me, it's God. Like God literally came in and transformed my life. Like, and I got saved, you know, last year, and I have plans to get baptized this year by my father-in-law. And that basically baptism is just an outward expression of an inward change. That's all it is. You know, I'm already saved. If I died today, I would go to heaven. But um all I can tell people is just addiction's hard, and I would never judge anyone for being an addict. Um, it's an extremely hard thing to deal with unless you've walked the walk and you fought it and you got through it. The only person you can thank for it is God. Like that's the only person.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:43

What was it in your walk with faith that was the thing that helped you the most? And you started like going slow with your girlfriend, and then did you start like doing more studying or what was it?

SPEAKER_00 1:51:52

The music. Okay. Music 100%. I know it seems stupid. Music is the most powerful thing for me. I the worship music at Rock Harbor changed my life. Like, I literally have that downloaded on my YouTube music. I I love worship music. The music, that now the messages are great. Music is what changed my life. What type of music do you listen to? Um, I have goals for myself. Like I was given a guitar for Christmas. Like, I want to be up on stage. I want to, I want to share people, uh, share the gospel with people through music. I can't play an instrument today, but I want to learn how to play an instrument and I want to be on the stage, and I want to get to people's hearts through music. And that's a goal that I have for myself. The music changed my life. Um, and I know that seems stupid, but the music, music changed it. This what I listened to. Because the music I listened to before, it talked about drinking, addiction, partying, women. And I changed the music that I listen to now. Most of the time, all I listen to is worship music. And there's really good worship music out there. Like it doesn't have to just be, you know, super spiritual, slow worship music. There's oh no, it's like heavy metal. There's it's all there, it's all out there. It's a little bit crab, you know, some of it. I have, you know, Brandon Lake. I I love that guy. You know, I don't know if you know who he is, but huge guy. He's got some rap songs out there. You know, I went to his concert. Music is where I feel the spirit the most, and music um is what keeps me sober, which is weird. It's the one thing that Satan refused to do is worship. Yeah. And so so for me, the most impactful thing was was the music touched my heart. Like the my favorite part at church is the music. I love the music. And um that's when I feel the spirit the most is through the music. So, but yeah, I now it's it's uh just a completely I'm a completely different person. I have such such quality relationships. And uh I I watched this this podcast of Steve-O from um the I what you know the Steve-O guy from um Yeah, Jack S. Yeah, that yeah, and he there's a lot of really profound people in the world that are looked up from the world as very successful people that struggle with addiction. I watch a lot of podcasts about addiction, and Steve O said, um, one of the most uh the addicts are the lucky ones because let let's say you get cancer tomorrow, and you get cancer and there's a chance you could beat it. The best you can hope for is if you get cancer that you're gonna be as good as you were today. But if you're an addict and you treat your addiction, you're gonna be better than you ever were before. That's the beauty in an addiction. If you treat it, you're 10 times better than you ever were before. If you get cancer, your hope is you're gonna be as good as you ever you were when you got the cancer. Wow. And so that that that that message always stuck with me. I was like, he's totally right. Like, if you get cancer or some sickness or illness, you're hoping to get back to where you were. That's your that's the ultimate goal. But if you treat addiction, you're 10 times better than you ever have been in your life. And uh, I I truly feel that every day. Like, I have so many awesome relationships and so many awesome friends that I've never had these like quality relationships before, these intellectual conversations, and now I can remember them all because I'm sober. And like it's it's transformed my life, and now I'm not a selfish person. Like, and that was something I really struggled with is selfish. I was just wanted, what can I gain? How much money, how much money can I gain from this? How much material items can I gain from this? And now I just call people on a daily basis just to see how they're doing or to see if I can serve them in some way, and that's really all I care about, you know? And uh I never thought I would get through it. Honestly, I thought I thought it was over for me. I really thought I was gonna end up in jail. I thought I was gonna probably die, honestly. And I know that seems extreme, but um I just I kind of wanted to, you know, I kind of wanted to just get something bad to happen to me. I would drink myself into oblivion, and most times I didn't know which route I took home. You know, I would just get home and I'd be like, man, that's pretty scary. I don't remember literally which road I took to get here last night. And I could have killed somebody, I could have killed myself, could have killed my friends, you know. But what you find in addiction is all those people that you hang out with, everybody that I used to hang out with when I was an active addiction, I don't talk to any of those people anymore. Not one of them. All those people that sat on the bar stools next to me, they're not there. They're not there anymore. The people that really matter come back when you get sober. And those are the people that matter. None of those people that I thought were my friends sitting there drinking with having a good time, none of those people are still there. Then when once Travis got sober, all those people went away. And um, it's you think they're your friends, but they're not, they're just there because they have no one else either, and you guys are just sulking together. And you know, I've reached out to a few of them just to see if I could help them, and it's never came to fruition. It's always flaked out, it's ever worked out. Invited them over to my house for dinner, and they just never show up, you know. And so you really do find out who your friends are when you get sober. Because the the there's a there's a definite difference.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:48

Um that's a hard part too, is when you see how much changing has changed your life and you see the others around you that you care about, even if you cared about them in a time that was a hard time, you want to help them out. And if they're not ready for that, you like you say, you can only take them to water, you can't make them drink. Yep. But uh it's it's hard, you know. Like when I lost all my weight and I'll, you know, quit my addictions, like drinking alcohol, porn, like um just eating um everything I could, you know, like just living that lifestyle. Like, then I quit it, and then I was like, oh man, I feel great. And I'm like trying to help friends out for free. Like, I'll dude, I'll I'll be your trainer, I'll be your coach for free. I'll you know, like you don't have to pay me. I just want you to feel how I feel. And those are honestly the worst clients ever, because if they're they don't have anything in the skin of the game or they're not really wanting it, you know. It's like you have to be so sick and tired of being sick and tired, and you have to uh was it Ed Milet has a really good saying is like when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change, then you'll change. And that's that's how it is. Like you just gotta be so sick and tired that you gotta change. There's no other option.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:54

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sometimes some, you know, some people in life, you know, I'm around a lot of people in life that it's always kind of been easy for them to stay sober and to and to live a you know a good spiritual life. Some people it just comes easy for. And then there's other people like me, you gotta learn the hard way. But I always tell this to people that ask me about my story. And uh I always tell them, you know, if God was to come here today and say, hey, all the pain and all the trials and tribulations and all the all the hard things that you've had to endure in your life, I'll take that away right now. You won't even have a memory of it. And I would tell God, I would say, Please don't do that. Like, please don't, because that cultivated who I am today, made me stronger, way stronger. And I it's like a shield of armor. And if you were to take that away, I wouldn't be who I am today. Like 100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:52

And it's really hard for other people to understand that. So I remember when I told my story, my dad was like, Oh, I'm sorry that I didn't see anything that happened, and I wish I could change everything. And I was like, honestly, I don't. Like I had to go through everything I went through for a reason that made me who I am today. Otherwise, who knows? I'd I'd probably be way worse than I was and never wanted to change. You know? Yep, 100%. And the thing that usually you think is what disqualifies you from helping others is the actual thing that helped is the qualification. Exactly. Right? Yep. Like now you can help other people that are going through those struggles rather than a pastor that's never touched alcohol in his life. Yep. Who are they gonna take advice from? Yep, 100%. Yeah, I a hundred percent agree with that. Have you been able to help other people along the way when they come to you and ask for help?

SPEAKER_00 2:00:38

I mean, they obviously they gotta want it, you know, like you just said, but not too many people in addiction have have uh come to me for help. I don't know that many people in it, um, but I know a lot of people that don't have God. And um, and so I try to that's that's kind of where I'm focused at right now is I have a lot of people that are interested in God. A lot of my family, um, you know, they they may believe in God, um, but they don't go to church, they don't necessarily practice it religiously, they don't read the Bible, you know, and so sometimes you can't force feed it to people. Sometimes you just have to live your life in such a way that they're like, there's something different about you. Like, what do you have? And then that opens the corridor for well, I can share it with you if you would like me to. And so Do you ever get pushback from your Mormon family? No, um, really, the only one that really my mom is she doesn't really go anymore, but she was she still, you know, has a lot of friends that are Mormon, and she she goes to church with us now. Oh, nice, you know, and so most people in my family, I have extended family that are Mormon, but at the end of the day, I don't really truly believe it matters what religion you are you you are, as long as you understand what the process is to become saved, and as long as you have a relationship with with God and Jesus Christ, because it's a personal relationship, no pastor or preacher is gonna tell you what that looks like. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 2:02:18

Um that's what I really like, and I I'm glad that I learned is that it's a relationship, not a religion. Like at the end of the day, it's just you're and and the the stronger you have that relationship, the more that Holy Spirit's gonna talk to you, and you can hear it louder. Because that was my thing when I started there, like just listening to the Holy Spirit. I'm like, how do I hear it? Like, I don't I don't know. Am I actually gonna hear like an audible sound? Like, yeah, and they're like, it'll just get stronger though the more you walk in it.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:43

It's uh yeah, and it's different for everybody for sure, but um I think God never intended for it to for us to have a bunch of religions, you know, it's just what man did. And uh, you know, we have the Bible for a reason, and if people read it and study it, that's that's really all you need to know. It spells everything out for you, it spells out the process of what it takes to become saved. It it it spells out everything, you know, and as uh Jesus was walking the earth and everything that he went through and the resurrection and and all that stuff, it it's pretty it's pretty spelled out for us. But our society and and people, you know, what you know, it's just a crazy world, and and people make it stuff that it's not. You know, it's it's like what they talk about at church sometimes. Like it's pretty clear in the Bible there's only two two uh sexes, male and female. It's very clear in the Bible, you know, but man made it made it different. And uh it's is that's what I like about where I go to church and where you go to church is it's all he preaches right out of the Bible. It's not he's he's reading other books, he's reading scripture. And if you read scripture, it's pretty easy to to to understand what you need to do. And um, that's one thing I want to get better about. I I don't pretend to be a scriptorian by any means, but but I understand the the fundamentals of what's in there, and I really do I I just I'm not good at reading. Like, not that I can't read, I'm just not good at slowing down enough to sit and read. Um, and there's so much value in books, like there really is, and I really want to get into reading. I have so many good books, and I want to have the self-control to be able to s turn my brain down enough to to be able to do that. But uh, but yeah, there's you know, you can audible, you know, you know, Bible, you know, readings and stuff like that, but but it there's a lot of good stuff in there, and um I'm just grateful that you know I found it and I have a have a testimony now. Because I didn't have a testimony before, you know, like I well, I was a kid at church listening to people's testimonies, and they all just sound scripted. Everyone said the same thing, like, you know, I believe this and I believe that. And then the Mormons, we literally every every month we would have a testimony Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:11

Yeah, I believe this is a true church, the untruth.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:13

Yeah, like it's always the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:15

Four hour long, you're like, oh god, it's that first Sunday of the month, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:05:18

Yeah, dude. And and so for me, it's like, man, like my testimony is built on my personal experiences, not by anything else. Like, my testimony and my faith is built upon um what what I went through. And there's no way that I would have gotten through what I went through and and would be where I am at today without God.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:44

And so there's my testimony. Like, I there's no way for me to turn a blind eye to it because of where I was at and where I came from, where I came to.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:53

And it's hard for people to understand that the things you're going through is gonna be what builds you later. Like I think about Joseph and his story, you know, when his his brothers sold him off to slavery. They were gonna kill him, but they're like, no, let's just sell him off instead. And he went through all that uh, you know, imprisonment and everything, and and he went through all that, and God could have saved him anyway at any point, but God had other plans for him, bigger plans that he just couldn't understand in the moment. Yeah, but you had to go through all that stuff to get to where you'd have to go. Yeah, you know, it's just uh sometimes it's hard to understand that, but once you do have faith in your life and something bad pops up in your life, you're like, all right, I don't understand this right now, but I know that this is gonna build me for something coming up that I can't see, or there's a plan here somewhere, so I'm just gonna write it out. Yep. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:40

So what's next for you now? Um, so I just got engaged last uh last Sunday. Yeah, congrats. Um she said yes, so that's good. She said yes. And uh yeah, I mean, life's really, really easy now. Life's really good. I'm super blessed. Um, you know, it's I I decided after the prison that I was gonna do uh heating and cooling, and uh I didn't know if that career was gonna work out for me or not. Um, but I've been doing that for going on almost five years now, and went to school for that for four years. And uh then I got my journeyman's license in August. So I've kind of reached the the pivotal point in that, you know, as far as what the highest achievement you can do in that trade. So now it's just about learning and growing within that. And and um, but yeah, work is work, you know, it's not, it's just a part of the part of the process, but it's not the most important thing we do at all, you know. That's just what I do for a living to provide for my family, but um, but yeah, I want to get, you know, get married this fall, and I want to have, you know, I have a 14-year-old now, um, but I want to have a couple more kids. So um definitely want to have a few more kids. My fiance doesn't have any kids. She wants to have kids really bad. And I would like to have a few more. I think I'll be, you know, not that to say I was a bad dad, um, but I think I'll be, and I'm a good dad today. Um, but I think once I have more kids, I think I'll be a lot better dad coming out of the gate day one than I was before. Just because I have so much more life experience now. So I want to be able to like, you know, raise a few more kids from from just little babies and be able to impact their life and show them what it means to be a hard worker and you know, a godly man and be someone that, you know, when I pass away, that they're gonna stand at the pulpit and have good things to say about me. That's all I want, you know, just to leave a legacy.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:45

Yeah. And so Yeah, that was one of the big takeaways I took from one of the books I read, and they were like talking about starting at your if you're no one working way backwards, what do you want people to say? That was for me. Like at the end of the day, I was like, I don't want to just say I worked at a prison for 30 years. Like, I went through all this as a kid, like I should be able to do something else with my life rather than just because I never wanted to promote, I was just like not, I was not a good officer at all, you know. Uh, but God put me in a position too of like when I heard that I got transport, I was like, wow, this is crazy. I just put my name on the bucket just to see what happened. But putting me on that bus to go to Court d'Alene, that's just a lot of time, and that's where I listened to so many books and got me to change my life just at downtime. And yeah, like so God had a reason for me, you know. I just I was grateful to get on transport, but I didn't know why. And now I know. Yep. That's how I that's how I was able to, you know, just focus. You're you're stuck in a little officer's cage in the back of a bus for a long time, and I just would put books on and really just contemplate life decisions, a lot of music. Um it was like Christian rap that I would listen to back then, and I wasn't even Christian yet, but I liked NF. So like his songs would just really speak to me, and I was like, oh man, all right. I need to do something different in my life. So it's just funny how God's got a plan and you don't even understand what's at work. You just gotta have a mustard seed of faith. Just go with it.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:18

Yeah, so yeah, I don't really other than that, I just uh yeah, just I'm kind of in just enjoying this phase of like, man, I I'm not in control, but everything's so great, you know. Just everything in my life is blessed, you know, my family, financially, work-wise, just super blessed.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:37

Have you ever thought about trying to go back out to the prison and do like just talking to the inmates like as a volunteer or anything?

SPEAKER_00 2:10:44

You know, I I I I haven't thought about it too much about that specifically, but I've thought a lot about just um I feel like God wants to use me for something. I just I don't know what that is yet, and I don't want to control what that is. Yeah, I like that. And so I'm just kind of like in this it'll pop up when I need to be. Yeah, I'm just kind of like waiting for it. Um, because I know it's something. I know it's something that I'm sh I'm supposed to be doing, and I'm just kind of waiting for that opportunity to present itself because I I do really care about people and I do want to help others. Like that's that's really what I like to do. You know, even at work, you know, we're not talking about God or country, we're just talking about work. But I like a love helping people, like, hey, you don't know how to do this in heating and cooling, let me show you. Like always being a servant of others, you know, like I'm I'm here to show you how to do this, like because I used to not know how, and I would love to teach you how, you know, and so anything in my life, I love to just cultivate people, you know, and and help people be better. Um, and so so I'm just kind of kind of in just in this really uh reminiscing phase of like, man, I can't believe I got here. You know, I never thought I would get my life back, you know. Or I never thought I would get a life that was this blessed. Because it's just different this time. I've rebuilt my life many, you know, three times now. And uh this time it's a lot sweeter. It's just a way I I can't even describe it to you. It's just way different. Just way more peaceful.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:18

Yeah, having Christ in the center of it.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:20

Yeah. So all right.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:22

Well, before we leave, what's a good uh, you know, your your biggest advice for maybe another person going through their own thunderstorm out there, or you know, going through the ringer and wants to make a change, doesn't know what to do.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:35

I would just tell tell them to don't be afraid about what other people think. Um because it in my addiction, I I hid from everybody. I didn't want anybody to know because I don't want to be judged for it. And the thing about it is you got to consider the source who's judging you. And at the end of the day, if you're bettering yourself, who cares what other people think? You know, I'm sure there's gonna be people that are gonna watch this and be like, oh my gosh, Travis did that or Travis did this, like it doesn't matter. I don't care. I don't care if people are gonna judge me because I know at the end of the day that I'm trying, I bettered myself. And so those people that are struggling with addiction or struggling with things, you you can't do it by yourself. You know, you have to surround yourself with good people, and you can't be afraid to to talk about it. If you don't talk about it, then you're just fighting yourself. And if you're fighting yourself, you're gonna lose every time. And so um, that's one thing I really had to get over was the perception of um how I was viewed. Because the people that really matter, they know where your heart is, and that's all that matters. Those other people, they don't matter. Like, do they care what you're doing tomorrow? Do they care really about you? No, they don't care. It's just our society is full of drama and negativity. And so if if someone can look at negativity and talk about someone other, some other person to make themselves feel better, you don't care about you shouldn't worry about that person anyway. You know, the people that truly care about you and have your best interest in mind aren't gonna judge you for trying to be like, hey, I am struggling with pornography, or I am struggling with the alcoholism, or I'm struggling with drug addiction. Like, let us help you, you know, and that's all it's about. And you just gotta let go of the fact that some people are gonna judge you, and um, you just have to let that go because the the people you want in your corner at the end of the day, they're not gonna judge you for it, and that's all that matters, you know.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:40

Jesus was a perfect man and he still got judged. So once I remembered, or once I, you know, really learned that lesson, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's just a part of life. People are gonna judge you. You have to be careful of the advice you take from people though, you know, like if they're trying to give you like you shouldn't do that or whatever, but then you look at their life, would I want to change my life, or why would would I want to trade my life for their life? No, okay. Well, I'm probably not gonna listen to what your advice is or whatever your your thoughts are if I'm not willing to go where you're at, you know. Yeah, 100%. But sweet dude. Well, I appreciate you coming on. This has been a great, powerful testimony. So I really appreciate you sharing it.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:17

Yeah, thank you for having me. I appreciate it a lot. Thank you. Yeah, dude.