Episode 50 | She Forgave Her Sister’s Killer… This Is Her Story | Vanessa Ayala

Episode 50 of the Rain Brings Growth Podcast is one you won’t forget

Vanessa Ayala opens up about a life that most people would never see on the surface From what looked like a normal childhood to the reality of pain loss and growth behind closed doors this episode dives deep into the truth that everyone has a story you don’t see

Vanessa shares her journey growing up in California navigating ADHD chasing her passion in cosmetology and becoming a mother But everything changed in an instant when she experienced one of the highest highs in life followed immediately by unimaginable tragedy finding out her sister had been murdered

In this episode we talk about

The pressure of living a perfect life on the outside
ADHD motherhood and learning to manage chaos
Moving from California to Idaho for a fresh start
Faith forgiveness and finding purpose through pain
Processing trauma and healing after loss
What it really means to forgive the unforgivable

Vanessa’s story is raw real and powerful It is a reminder that growth does not come from the highlights it comes from the rain

If you have ever struggled questioned your path or needed hope in a dark season this episode is for you

Available on YouTube Spotify and Apple Podcasts

Follow Vanessa on Instagram
@the_tattoo_barber

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

He ended up actually like re-proposing to me when Gabby was like a month and a half, two months old. And that was fun because the girls were there and just said, like, I want to marry you again. This is so exciting. Right after that, um, I found out that my sister had been murdered. It was like the super high high.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

And then you're Vanessa, this is the 50th podcast. This is pretty awesome. I'm so glad that you're you're the one to do it.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Yeah, it's been really cool to see you at 3D Fitness, and then going to watch your testimony was really powerful and just talking to you over, I don't know, like the last couple of years. It's just been a cool and the little family there at 3D. So we definitely wanted to get you on.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Thank you. Thank you so much. And thanks for kind of nudging me because I know you had asked me to do it, and I was just so scared and a little nervous to share. I don't know, public speaking, right? But being here, right, in your studio, it's it's more, it's not as scary. There's no audience like live.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Right? Yeah. Yeah, it's just chill, it's just a couple of big cameras in your face, but other than that, right? Yeah, it's um I don't know, it's it's crazy. Like the public speaking thing. I've I went years without ever telling my story, just shoving it under the rug. And I kind of felt like there was probably a lot of people out there that have a cool story, and you just see the surface level of what they are, and like that that saying must be nice just always bugged me so bad. Like they just see where you're at now, they don't see any of the crap that you've had to go through to get to where you're at now. And I just was like, I gotta give like an outlet for people to tell their story because there's so much wisdom, too, that you can help out, and just like if if you can help one other person by telling your story, why not?

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Like, yep, that's how I feel. Every time I go, you know, at church when I share my testimony, I'm like, if I just help one person, like I'll pray like just one person, if this could touch one person, then I did my job, I did his job, right? So yeah, but I think part of you asking me to come on and me being nervous, what really got me in was when I heard your story on a podcast, and and I was like, Yeah, I gotta do it because hearing your story, like you said, you just don't know it's like the iceberg, you see the tip of the iceberg, but everything underneath that you would never know, and everybody walking around, you just never know what they're going through, what they've been through, or what they've overcome.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

So Yeah. Yeah, it's hard because a lot of people will just be like, Oh, you grew up with such an easy life, and you know, like you have no idea. That was always hard for me because people would just see like the surface level of all the nice vacations we would go on, or like of I had like big TVs in my room, but I couldn't use them, and like all these like nice Christmases and stuff, but then it was just crazy. So then I was like, just really bugged me. I was like, you guys just don't know, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

You don't know what happens behind closed doors, right? It's just even with social media, right? It's the highlight reels, what you see, but yeah, the person behind the screen, like what's actually happening.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

Yeah, that's something I've been trying to focus on just this year, like shifting from my social media is like I'm just gonna go show you guys the good, the bad, and the ugly if you guys know where that unfollow button is, if you don't like it, like you know, there you go. But I'm not just gonna show you the highlights because highlights don't get you any growth. No, it's true or any wisdom at all.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Well, and I feel like people don't relate to that either, right? The perfection and like who that's not real, that's not real life. We do have, you know, the high of the highs, and it's great to celebrate those. But when you are going through it, I think being vulnerable, it's courageous, and other people can relate to that.

SPEAKER_03 3:59

Yeah. So where are you from, Vanessa?

SPEAKER_00 4:01

I'm from a small town, it's actually grown quite a bit now, but it's called Gilroy, California. So um known for the garlic festival, and there's a huge garlic plant out there. You could smell it as you drive through. Um, it's south of San Jose and San Francisco, but I feel pretty blessed because it's kind of central to a lot of places. So not too far from Monterey, Santa Cruz, San Francisco. But growing up, it was a pretty small town.

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Yeah, what'd you guys do for fun?

SPEAKER_00 4:32

I played sports, so I'm thankful that I grew up. Um, softball was the majority of my childhood. Um, and then, you know, just growing up, we lived in the same house for man, I think I was brought home to this house from the hospital, and we stayed there for 18 years, had a huge backyard, and I just remember my mom telling us, like, change out of your school clothes, put your outside clothes on, and just like throw us in the backyard and play with dirt, collect rocks, get dirty, like there was no tablets or no TV. No TV, no none of that. So just playing outside till like the sun went down.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

You have siblings too?

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Mm-hmm. So I grew up, I have two older sisters and a younger brother. Okay. And there's a pretty good age gap between me and my sister. So my oldest one, she was 14 years older than me. Next one was born seven years later. I'm seven years after her. And then my younger brother was born three and a half years after me.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Yeah. So me and him were pretty close growing up. We're still pretty close, but that was the dynamic. Poor guy growing up with three older sisters. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

It was fun. Sounds like you guys are pretty active in sports, though, so you can join alongside it. Like you guys are just doing all Barbie stuff or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

No, nope. And like I did grow up, so my oldest sister, she was a teen mom, so her son actually grew up with me too. So me, my brother, and my nephew, it was usually the three of us. And so, you know, two against one, two boys against one girl. And so I kind of just got thrown in the mix hanging with them. But I did, I mean, when I would hang out when my older sister, not the oldest, the middle one, um, she was down to play with me and sometimes play Barbies with me. And, you know, I'd start cutting their hair. Maybe that's where I got my jump start in my career early as a kid. Yeah. I do my Barbie's hair. Yeah. So it was a good thing. It's always known as something you were passionate about. Yeah, just creativity. So I loved art, you know, in school. Sports was a huge thing. PE was my favorite, just again, being out and active and playing with friends. School, being in the classroom is hard though. And I get that now. Um, I was diagnosed with ADHD like two years ago, and I'm like, this makes sense. Like by sitting down in a classroom at a desk, like, I can't sit still. I'm pretty hyperactive and like go, go, go. So the typical lecture theory, it just was hard for me. So being able to get out and run around, that was good.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

What made you want to get tested a couple years ago?

SPEAKER_00 7:04

I was having a hard time focusing. And then people would joke around, like, squirrel, squirrel. And I'm like, actually, maybe I should get this checked out. And I actually talked to my mom and she's like, Yeah, as kids, they did want to put you and your brother on medication. I'm like, wait, what? And she's like, Yeah, but she's very much like um more natural, like homeopathic, like natural remedies. And she's like, no, I just put you guys in sports and let you guys get the energy out. Like so, like, all this with me, like post-its, notes, calendars, like having to set all these alarms. Like, I kind of grew up just making these accommodations for myself, trying to figure out how to get things done and tasks done and stay on track. But now I'm like, this makes sense. And it got worse, I think, after having kids, like, okay, I gotta be here, I gotta be there. And then um the best way that I describe this to people is the pinball game at an arcade. You know, it's just all over the place. Sometimes I feel like my thoughts are like that with ADHD. I'm like, oh, I gotta do this, and then some people are able to keep up with me in some of these conversations, like, oh, my bad, I'm pinballing hard right now. And people that have ADHD, they're like, Yeah, that is what it's like. Like, that's a good analogy. I'm like, hey, I've just figured it out.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

Yeah, I've thought about going and get tested because I'm pretty dang sure I got it too.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Yeah, I think it's a superpower though. Yeah, I don't know how, but like I'm able to do all these things and keep going. And sometimes it's not though, because I get forgetful if I don't have my like note written down or my alarm. I'm like, oh shoot, I forgot. Keys. Like I have a basket now. I've had to learn things that I have to set up for myself, like the phone, the keys, you know, certain things. Otherwise, I'm like, crap, I'm gonna forget that.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

Yeah. That happens to me all the time. Like, I'll take the garbage out, and then I'll be like, oh, I gotta pick these weeds, and then I'm like, garbage is still just chilling right next to the garbage can. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, I gotta get a bag for these weeds, and then I go to the garage, and then I find something else to do in the garage, and then I'm like, oh, you gotta go throw away the garb the garbage, and then like it's just a whole big thing. And then my wife will come out, she's like, Did you get distracted again? Because like we're putting the kids to bed.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Yeah, I know. It's hard. You're like, oh crap.

unknown 9:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

I feel like.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

So, what did you do for it?

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Um, I did start a medication for it, but I didn't like it. I tried another one and didn't like it. So I'm just kind of like trying to keep doing what I was doing. I just it didn't feel right. Like I was having this like tightness in my jaw. It was so weird.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

I've talked to a couple people think would get on stuff and they're like, no, I just went back to what it was. Or I talked to my doctor because I was like, I'm pretty sure I got ADHD. I just don't want to get on any meds right now. But like, what can I do? Is there anything natural? He's like just drink a copious amounts of caffeine.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Wow. Well, and does it make you it doesn't give you like the up like other people? It's just kind of like a casual drink, right? Yeah, same.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

Yeah, like my brother's the same way, he could drink like a bunch of coffee right before bed and then pass out.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Yeah. I feel that.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

So when you so you were growing up and you had you're all over the place, your mom just put you in sports, and then um, and then what was what was that life like in California?

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Let's see. So grew up there, born and raised there. Um I'm pretty blessed. I had a really good childhood. Like my mom was a stay-at-home mom. My dad worked a lot so she could stay home with us. And, you know, it was like she was our taxi driver, man, pick taking us to school, picking us up, taking us to sports practice, like having dinner ready, picking us back up, taking us to all of our games. And then with my nephew growing up with us, too, like him and my brother were close in age, so they were like most of the time we try to get them on the same teams so it wasn't separated practices.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Um, but yeah, I'm pretty blessed. You know, I have amazing parents. They did the best that they could, and they're still married, which I know is like rare. They're like 42 years now married, wow, which is pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't always perfect, like there were things that you know, I think about like now that I'm a parent, like what would I do differently? What are some generational chains that I would break? And when I think back to it, like my dad growing up, he drank a lot. Like there was some, you know, alcoholism that happened there. And one thing that did happen that is a huge blessing is when I was in middle school, it was in 2000, he was um diagnosed with hepatitis C. And the doctors basically told him, like, man, your liver's not in good shape. Either we have this um, what was it? It was like an introduction to a drug that they were like, we're kind of just experimenting with it. If you want to be a guinea pig for this, you'd be a good candidate for it. We don't know, you know, if it's gonna work or not. But our hope is that it'll cure hepatitis. So they told them, Hey, do you want to live or you want to die? Because if you don't want to take this opportunity, we'll give it to the next guy. He just quit cold turkey. Wow, stop drinking. And I can only imagine how hard that was, right? To just like not even taper off of it or have accountability for like I think of all the things we have now, like AA and celebrate recovery, and just a sponsor, but he stopped for us, you know, when they tell you, like, you know, you're the main provider of your family, either you're gonna live or you're gonna die. He just in that moment made that choice. That's amazing. Um, yeah, it is, and he's been sober ever since, so it's pretty cool to see that. And um I remember I was in middle school, he had to go in for surgery, they cut off half of his liver. Cool thing is your liver can like grow back, I guess. Oh, cool. Um, yeah, and they had him on these daily injections, and it was kind of scary. Like, I remember when he came home from the hospital, like he did not look good. He was like shaking and really cold after the surgery. And my mom's throwing all these blankets on top of him, and that was it. He stopped drinking. My mom wasn't really into she drank with him like occasions and whatnot. But that ended that. And looking back at it, I think of like our birthday parties, like family members coming and like so much beer and alcohol there at like a kid's birthday party. You know, it's kind of crazy now. Thinking back, like, is that the things that were normalized? Right. Yeah. Like, let's have a huge party for our three-year-old, but everyone's drunk. Yeah. It's like, all right, cool. We had fun, you know, playing at the park and having a good time. But yeah, that was one thing I could think of.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Um, did you guys have faith growing up?

SPEAKER_00 13:30

No, I wish we did. So, like, yes and no. So I was baptized Catholic as a baby. I didn't go through all the like, I don't even know the names. Is it like your confirmation? I have no clue. I don't know. So I know that my older sisters did because there's pictures of them doing like their first communion. And I think your confirmation, you have to take all these classes, but I never did the classes. I was baptized when I was like three months old. My dad's uh twin sister is my godmother, and her husband is my godfather. But we never really like we didn't go to church on Sundays, I didn't go to like a Sunday school. I went to the Catholic church when there were weddings, funerals, baptisms, just sometimes Easter, Christmas, but not really. Like um, I remember like being told to pray, and you know, my mom and my family having pictures of Jesus or like the last pictures of the Last Supper, crosses in the house. My mom, she still has like her altar um with the candles, people's pictures, like her prayers and stuff, which I still don't understand. But I'm like, you know, she has her faith. Um but I just didn't know what it was like to have a relationship with Jesus. I do remember though, like growing up and lying, and my mom saying, Vanessa, God's watching you, like you know, and so it was kind of like a fear thing, like, ah, he's watching me. But it wasn't like the relationship I have now with Jesus. Yeah, so it was different. But I remember showing up and the stools that they had, they pull out and you have to like go on your knees and like stand up and sit down and stand up and sit down. Um, but it wasn't a regular thing that we did.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

Gotcha. How was high school for you?

SPEAKER_00 15:19

High school was uh it was fun.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

You play high school softball?

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Yeah, I played high school softball. Um, I did like softball was my life from when I was like eight years old to my junior year in high school. I played all the time. Like I made the all-stars team, and then I ended up on a traveling team. And the traveling team was year-round. Like I think back to my poor parents just loading us up, driving throughout the Bay Area, up and down California, and the early mornings, all day at the fields, and with the tournaments, there's the brackets. So you'd never know, like, right, how many games am I playing today? Well, it depends if you win or lose on the Saturday and then the Sunday. Like a double elimination. Oh my gosh, yes. And even then, it's like, okay, well, you're for sure gonna play on Saturday this many games, and you'll probably play one on Sunday, but then towards the end of the championship games, it's like, wow, are we playing six in the morning, or not six in the morning, like eight in the morning? We have to be there at six to warm up and stretch. Right. And then, well, our next game isn't until two in the afternoon. But if we win that one, then we're playing at nine o'clock at night or eight o'clock at night. It's like, how did they even prepare? I remember my mom having like the ice chest with snacks and then like a backpacker bag with all the things you could think of: first aid kit, sunblock, like entertainment for my brother who had to get dragged along because I'm playing and got to entertain him all day. But fun times, um, I remember some of the tournaments had like 10 baseball fields, and they're kind of like back to back in the little sports complex, and there's balls flying everywhere, and just heads like, watch out, someone's gonna get hit in the stands.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

It's crazy. My sister's on a traveling softball team, she just got on the high school team. Um, so it's like a little bit of a break because all they're traveling now is as a team, you know. But I remember my dad was going to like St. George, Las Vegas, they're out of Utah. They even came up here to Twin Falls, like all over every weekend, like all over, and it's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

It is a lot. Then you think of like when you're traveling out of state, because we did a this was horrible. We did a Vegas tournament in the summer. Oh gosh. And I'm like, dude, we're from like the Bay Area where you get that nice breeze at night, and it's like during the day, not so bad. And it was horrible. One of our, I think our catcher got heat stroke out there. We're like dipping our hats and caps in like the ice chest and putting it on her head, and then it just like dries up.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

But think of cost of hotel flights or if you're driving.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

Yeah, how do you do that on a hotel if you don't know how many nights are gonna be there?

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Usually just book it for well, we would do Saturday, Sunday tournament. So usually check out on Sunday, but then it's like crap, I want to go back to the hotel and rest because I have another game. But nope, you're just stuck at the field or doing whatever until it's time for you to play again.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Did you ever do one of those tournaments where it was like a 24-hour tournament? No. My sister did one of those. I guess they were dad like a three o'clock in the morning game. Oh my 24-hour tournament.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

And she's in high school?

SPEAKER_03 18:17

No, this was back like when she was probably in middle school.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Stop. No, I would have fallen asleep, dude. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:21

There's like pictures my dad was in the back of the truck. She was sleeping a little bit, but then like had to wake up at like two in the morning and go play at four or something.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

And night games are rough because of the lights. Oh, like the way especially if you gotta try to catch the ball and it's in the light, yeah. Yep. And even like up when you're batting, it could kind of throw you off a little bit, but yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

Was that the plan? When did you want to go to like college and play softball?

SPEAKER_00 18:44

No, I think I did, but I got burnt out like just playing so much. And then my junior year, I played field hockey. And I wish I would have started that sooner. It was so much fun. Is that lacrosse? It's similar, it's lacrosse, but with the hockey stick. So it's on the ground with the ball. And man, it looks like the girls on the team, amazing, so cute. When they get on the field, these women are insane. Like they're tough out there, especially lacrosse, too. I mean, there's no field hockey out here. Lacrosse is big in Idaho, but field hockey was big and I loved it. But then it started, it was hard because the traveling team, my double days for field hockey were six to eight. So six in the morning to eight o'clock at night, six to eight. And then my softball practices were kind of in the mid-afternoon. It was just so much. I was getting burnt out. And I kind of had to pick what do I want to do? And it's like, well, I've been doing softball longer, but yeah, I really love this one too. So I just did that my junior year and then senior year, I was just burnt. And I tried to graduate early. Um, a lot of my friends were older than me. I had two cousins I was close to, and they were a year ahead of me. So I remember just thinking, and even before, you know, thinking about college ball or anything like that, I remember thinking, like, I just want to graduate early and go to hair school. Like, I just wanted to do hair. And I did summer school every summer and try to do like extra periods or classes to get ahead of the game. And so my senior year, I didn't have to be at school the first or second period. My only class was like history and economics, and I had free periods in the afternoon. Nice. So I did, I was a teacher's assistant for like the cooking class, which was nothing. Nothing, dude. I got to like just bring out stuff from the fridge and let them cook, and then I taste test and like not even grade papers, but just kind of chill. And then my senior year, um, since I had the free periods, I was like, maybe I'll just start junior college. So I started junior college while I was a senior. I just I didn't really want to be there. I I don't know. Again, school just wasn't really my thing. I just wanted to be in and out, and I started college early and I ditched a lot. I mean, junior and senior year. I was at the beach a lot with my friends drinking, partying, and up to no good. I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe like looking back now, I'm like, I'm don't want my kids to be like me. Yeah, scary.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

That's cool. I mean, you were still chasing and drinking, were you doing hair also in high school?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Well, so I would like without permission. So my friends, I would do their hair for some of the formals, so like senior dinner dance, junior dances, winter balls, proms, and so like updos for them, curl their hair. And then I started playing with color at home, and people were just letting me. I'm like, now thinking back, now what I know about like the chemical process, yeah. Damn, people are lucky they didn't go bald. Like just using bleach from like Walgreens and Rite Aid, and just not, I mean, there's you have to know what you're doing before you go in with a chemical on someone's hair. You're gonna break it off. But I got lucky. Um, no one went bald, no one got their scalp burned. But I do remember someone telling my mom, like, hey, I didn't give so and so permission to color their hair. And I we would just be in the bathroom like for hours, and my mom didn't know what we were doing. Like, she's busy doing her thing, and my brother and my nephew. And again, taking people to practices, making dinner, cleaning the house. Yeah. My dad's gone at work. And um, she's like, yeah, you can't be coloring people's hair without their parents' permission. I'm like, oh, okay. Like I had their permission. They're the one that bought they bought it for me to do it. So I just did it. Yeah. But that had been something that I really enjoyed doing was hair. That's awesome. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

So out of high school, what'd you do?

SPEAKER_00 22:22

So after high school, um, I went to the community college that I'd already been attending and just started doing my general education. But I really wanted to do cosmetology school. And they offered it there at the college, and there was like a really like a two-year wait list to get into it, and it was semester-based. And I'm like, uh, it would take two years to get, I think, your Cosmo license through them. And so I had seen other programs, like there's Paul Mitchell, Aveda, all these brand name schools. And um, I'm like, I think it's like a nine-month or year program just through the Cosmo school. And I remember my parents saying, like, you should really just go get an education. Like, go to school, go to college. Neither of them had been to college. Um, my dad graduated high school and you know, went on and worked. Well, he he did a little bit of college and then dropped out. But I remember both of them just really pushing it. Like, if you want a good future, go get your college degree. And I think that was something that was preached for a long time in society. Like, you have to have a college degree. You have to have really, I don't think you do. Like, I mean, you really don't. You there's so many things you could do that don't require any college degree. Yeah. Um, so I remember going through the motions, getting my associate's degree. And at the time, my sister had moved here to Idaho. Um, I think it was 2005, maybe, or 2006. Her oldest son has special needs, and there's a lot of programs out here for kids with special needs. And then not only that, but her and my brother-in-law wanting to, you know, own a home and settle down, and it's a great place to raise kids. But that was 2006, like there was nothing out here. And she's like, You should come to Boise State, transfer out here, and like we have an extra room, you could just live with us, and like you should really come. And I think part of it was like she was lonely too, right? Yeah, like she's a stay-at-home mom, wife, and her son has special needs. And I know that in itself is hard, you know, like not having, you know, for me, it's like play dates and whatnot now that I have kids, but I think about her, like all the challenges that come along with that. Um, and her son, he has severe cerebral palsy, and so it's really hard, you know, wheelchair-bound and nonverbal. He does have a communication device, but even then it's it's really hard, right? Yeah. So I came out and she even was like, we could even set it up to where you're like kind of like his caregiver. Like I could set you through like the hiring agency to help, and you could help me with him. And I loved that. And he was, let's see, Dylan was probably six. So I was still able to pick him up out of his wheelchair, transfer him to the car. Now he's huge. I would not be able to do that now, but it was so much fun. Um, and my I don't want to say he was my first nephew because I have my nephew that I grew up with. He's more of a brother. So Dylan kind of is like, right? Your first experience is being an auntie, whereas my other nephew, like, he's like a brother to me. So that was really fun. Went to BSU, continued on. Um, I actually got ended up getting my associates in criminal justice.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Yeah. I somehow I remember I knew I wanted to do hair, and then one of my electives ended up being like investigations, and then I'm like, oh, this is pretty fun. The next one ended up being forensics, and I'm like, I just kept taking them. This is so freaking cool. And my guidance counselor's like, why don't you just get your associates in criminal justice? I'm like, that's smart. She's like, because you're you have all these credits already. You finished all your general edit. I was just kind of in there, like, what am I doing? My parents told me to get a college education, but I don't know what I want to do. Like, I just kept going with it. So I transferred out to BSU and was going through the criminal justice program and I hated it. Like the community college was great because it was smaller classes. And now knowing that I have ADHD, that makes sense. I go to BSU and I'm like huge, and this huge, like it felt like I was like in a stadium. I'm like, what is this? And walking around campus, I'm like, I just don't feel like I'm not interested in this. I want to do hair. I ended up leaving. So I stayed here for a year. Ended up wanting to go back to California to do hair out there because that's where the hair is. Like San Francisco, LA, New York, there's hair. And so I'm like, I want to go back to school. I know what I want to do. I'm done with college. So ended up going back to California and um did Cosmo school finally.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

How long did that take you?

SPEAKER_00 26:41

It took me less than a year. I just wanted to be in and out as quickly as possible. I wanted to just work in the salon.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

Yeah, that's cool. Did you end up like opening your own shop then, or did you just go work with somebody else?

SPEAKER_00 26:54

I knew, so I didn't end up going to like a fancy name brand school. I started working at a salon and I was the receptionist for a bit. And they're like, you know, there's this school. It's not fancy. It's just you're gonna get in and out. You just gotta learn the skateboard stuff. And as soon as you get out, like you could work here or you can apprentice somewhere. They didn't have an apprenticeship program. They're like, but you're gonna learn everything behind the chair.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

So that's what I did. I went to the school in Salinas, California. And it was fun. It was a fun time. Um, Salinas is known for growing all the fruits and vegetables, like actually, mostly the vegetables, so like the salad bowl of the area where I grew up. Every little town has their thing. Ours was garlic. A little bit further down, Castroville has the artichokes, Watsonville has the strawberries, um, Salinas has like the spinach and all the stuff for your salads, all the veggies out there. So fresh produce. Um, we had this guy that had his little fruit cart, and he'd come, the palatero man, like the ice cream man. But this guy was, he sold fruit. So I don't know what you would call the frutero man, maybe is what you'd call him. And he'd come and have either mango, pineapple, watermelon, um cantaloupe, and then he'd squeeze fresh lime juice on your fruit, and then put some tahin on there or chamoy, which is like the Mexican candy, um, on it. And just like every day my money was going to this guy. Yeah. So good.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

They have a guy on the corner over by this big park right here. Yeah. They do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Oh, so good. Yeah. Since moving to Idaho from California, I've had to like try to find all the good Mexican spots, which it's coming out here.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

Is it?

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Yes, because I remember when I went to school, when I went to BSU, what was that, like 07? Um, there wasn't a whole lot happening out here. And that's part of the reason why I left. I'm like, this is so boring. Like downtown wasn't happening. There wasn't everything like 8th Street and all the fun restaurants, good food. I could I when people say, like, I remember when Eagle Road was just like dirt and nothing. I remember that too. I remember driving down there and like R.C. Willie was the main thing. There was no village, no village, nothing. So I remember those days too. When I moved back here after, you know, working in the salon for five years, ended up getting married.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

And what brought you back here then?

SPEAKER_00 29:14

So I came back here after getting married and having my oldest. My ex-husband was like, let's get out of California. Like, he wanted a fresh start. And I thought that was. How did you meet him? Oh, let's see. I met him 2010. So while uh yeah, I met him in 2010 when I moved back and decided I wanted to go to Cosmos School.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

Okay. Yeah. When you moved back to California, you met him then. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Yeah, met him through um my brother and basically just partying, getting high, smoking weed and all that fun stuff.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Yeah. And um we yeah, ended up dating for like four years. We got engaged and married like super fast, insanely fast. So we got engaged on Valentine's Day um 2015. Our dating anniversary was February 27th. So he's like, we should get married on our anniversary. I'm thinking that's smart. We only have to remember one date now, right? And I'm thinking like a year from then, right? And when you get engaged, everyone's like, when's the wedding? I'm like, I don't know, I just got engaged yesterday. And he's like, we should just do it on our anniversary. And I'm like, okay, let's start planning it. And he was thinking like in two weeks, our anniversary. Oh, yeah. I'm like, whoa. But then a part of me was kind of like, he's like, you said yes. Like, I did say yes. He's like, well, then why not yes in like two weeks? Yeah. I'm like, damn, that's fast. And that's very much him though. He's very much like, fly by the seat of your pants, very spontaneous. I am the complete opposite, like, very much a planner.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

And I'm getting better. I feel like I've gotten so much better after having kids. You cannot plan anything. Like, I I could barely be on. I mean, I'm better, but being on time places, I'm like, we got to go. I gotta like do the time. Like, okay, we gotta leave, I gotta get ready five hours before we leave, right?

SPEAKER_03 31:04

Yeah, plan everything in reverse.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Yes, exactly. Um, but yeah, we got married, and my it's funny because my older sister was like, Are you pregnant? Yeah, shotgun wedding. Yeah, that's what everyone kept thinking. I'm like, no. And so I remember before, you know, walking down the aisle, which it was a small, it was just our parents, our siblings. Um, our dog was in the wedding, and let's see who else was there. I think two of our friends. We each had a f two friends there, like a courthouse wedding or what? It we wanted to do that, so we looked online and um San Francisco was completely booked. So I'm like, holy smokes. But we were able to do our marriage licensing on that day. Yeah. And then we had a buddy go online and become an ordained minister, and he married us um at the same little chapel that my parents got married at at that community college that I went to. Yeah. It's like a historic building in there, and we just, you know, got ready, and I got ready at home with my two girlfriends. I think he went with his dad to his dad's or his mom's and got ready, and then it was kind of like, okay, everyone meet at, you know, meet there. And my siblings were there, and I remember I smoked a blunt and had a couple beers before I walked down the aisle. Like, like it was really, like I said, everything was really fast, even though we had dated for four years, and it's kind of like, you know, eventually that's kind of where this is leading, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Um, but it happened fast, and then five months later, I was pregnant with Zoe, which is crazy because if I'm being honest, like we weren't responsible the entire time we dated with trying to prevent any sort of pregnancy. Um, I have PCOS, so that is something that is hard for people to get pregnant. So I remember being at the endocrinologist and them saying, like, you know, if it's ever something that you want to do along in the future, like you're gonna want to get tested, your partner's gonna want to get tested to make sure like you guys are able to do that. So I just didn't think that would be a thing. And then um when I was 21, so backtracking a little bit here, um, I ended up having an abortion with a guy that I dated while I was in college. And so that was something that I thought, oh my gosh, I'll never be able to get pregnant. Like I got pregnant and then ended up having an abortion. And what if God, you know, like I mean, like that's a sin. Murder is a sin, right? And that's the worst thing that I could have ever done. And I think about that, right? Like, what would my life be like if I didn't do that? What would my life be like if I knew if I had a relationship with Jesus and really understood what a blessing that was? So when we had um found out we were pregnant, I was in shock. Like, I'm like, I think you need to go buy more tests because this is definitely a false positive. I don't even know if this exists with the pregnancy test, but I'm like, this isn't right. So remember going sending him like he was so excited though, like he he knew he wanted to be a dad. I didn't know that. Like, I was happy being a dog mom, yeah, right. I'm like, I don't know if I could be responsible, like for a human.

unknown 34:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

But yeah, she's been, I mean, we have two, but I remember like having her and just thinking my entire life changed. My heart just I mean, you know, like for men, I think when your partner, when the mom delivers the baby and you're holding them in your arms, that's the moment. But for us women, it's like when we see that positive pregnancy test, when we hear the heartbeat, when we feel them moving, like that's it for us.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

That's real. What was it like when you went to the doctor and actually heard the heartbeat then?

SPEAKER_00 34:37

I was like, oh my gosh. But luckily, like at the time, he was really supportive. And you know, we were we were like married, we're excited, we've already been living together. Like, this is kind of like the next step, right? So we were excited, my family was excited. I remember thinking um about labor and delivery, like, oh boy, this is gonna be interesting, right? Like how painful that would be. And so I'm like, I don't want to know the sex, like I don't want to know. I think this will be great motivation, like in the delivery room for me to want to push it up to see if it's a girl or a boy. Yeah. So we had agreed, like, yeah, we're not like well, I had said, like, I don't want to know, I don't want to. He's supposed to like, I think we should, I want to know, I want to know. Dying. So at the 20-week ultrasound appointment, we told, I told the woman who was doing the ultra, I'm like, Can you write it down on a piece of paper, put an envelope? Like, I don't want to know, he does, and I don't know when we're gonna figure out what we're doing here. Yeah, so she handed it to him. I'm like wiping jelly off of my stomach and like getting dressed, and he ripped it open. And I'm like, no, I'm like, dude, and he's like, he could not keep a secret. And so his face lit up, and I didn't know what that meant, right? And so I'm like, oh my gosh, he's like, I gotta tell somebody. I'm like, don't tell me. And he was like, Who can I call? Who can I call? And he's like, Can I tell Ivan, who was his best buddy that married us? I'm like, yes, but that's it, and he cannot tell anyone, keep it a secret. The drive home, like maybe 30 minutes. He's like, Oh my gosh, can I tell your mom? I'm like, no. He's like, I gotta tell someone else. I'm like, you're gonna end up freaking telling me what this is. Literally, it had only been like an hour since the doctor's appointment. And I don't know, he's like, she's gonna look just like you. He's like, Oh, I'm like, dude. So I'm like, all right, but it was a huge blessing because I have like five nephews. Yeah. So my mom has been waiting for granddaughters, yeah. And let's see, my so my oldest nephew's three years younger than me, and then my youngest nephew, he just turned 12. And so at the time, he was the youngest, and I think he was two and a half years old. So my mom having these five grandsons every pregnancy, right? Thinking, oh, it's a girl, it's a girl, it's a girl. My sister that lives here, she has three boys, and we thought the last one was a girl. So when he called my mom and told her, she was like, You better not be joking with me. Like, she was in, she didn't believe him, like, this is a prank. Like she said, You have to like seriously, like you can't joke with me. Like, you need to be a hundred, like, you swear to God, you have to be honest. And he was like, Yeah, she's like freaking out. She already had stuff for a girl, like from the previous pregnancies of my sibling, so she was ready for it. She's like, Oh my gosh, you're gonna be my favorite son-in-law if you give me a granddaughter. So to say that Zoe is spoiled is an understatement. Yeah, yeah. Everyone, like my sisters were excited to go shopping, even my brothers, like, yeah, finally. And I just thought, like, out of all the girls, I'm the tomboy of the group. I for sure thought I was gonna have boys, especially with all them having boys. But I love being a girl mom. It's made me girly. I love it. What was it like holding her for the first time? Oh my gosh, she was so tiny. So she was four pounds 10, no, four pounds 12 ounces. And um, like just little. I remember just holding, like, I could fit her like from my elbow to my hand, like this. And four pounds 12 ounces? Yeah. She was born 36 weeks early. My water broke, like she was ready to come out. And um, I remember them saying, like, she was measuring pretty small. They're like, You're pretty small. Their dad's not a big guy either.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Um, my mom's pretty tiny too. So yeah, she was so stinking cute. And I just remember I was scared before I had her because I'm like, wait, where do you guys put the baby? I had never really babysat. I wasn't like that woman that's just oh babies, like and pick them up. No, I was like, Where do you put it? So I'm like ready for you to hand me this baby. And the nurses were like, Oh gosh. And I just remember them late, and it just it was the instinct. Like people talk about that motherly instinct that you get, and it just oh, the skin to skin. I miss that. But the feeling was just powerful, like love, just like my heart exploding.

SPEAKER_03 38:51

Yeah, it's an amazing feeling. Yeah. Did you do any like classes leading up to it?

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Oh my gosh. Dude, what's funny is the birthing class that we were supposed to go to was the day she was born. And I ended up waking up like so hungry. And I'm like, dude, we need to stop for burrito. I need a like on the way to the class, and he's like, okay, like you don't ever tell a pregnant woman, no, as you're passing like a place that they're craving. And so um, super tackeria was the place that I wanted their super burrito from. So good with a sauce, and it was a long line. It was, and I'm like, I'm gonna wait. There was no drive-thru, you just got off and you waited in line. So we're already like 30 minutes late for the class, and I'm like grubbing down him too. He actually gained 30 pounds through that pregnancy, which was funny. Sympathy weight. Yeah, sympathy weight. He told and he was just down for like whatever cravings. I had just like, let's go, let's eat it. So we I'm like, we're already 30 minutes late. I don't want to go in. And a part of me didn't want to go in because I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I think it's gonna scare me. I had done like the breastfeeding class before, but we're on our way, and I'm like, hey, do you want to ditch the class? I'm like, maybe we should go shopping for like hospital bag stuff. I did not want to go. So yeah, we go, we're at the mall, we're looking for like a robe for me, nursing bras, like anything that we had left on our list. We got a ton of stuff for the baby shower. So it was just like whatever the little things that we needed. I remember walking around the mall and then just thinking, like, oh my gosh, my stomach hurts. Then later, like, let's go get some pizza, let's go get lunch. Like it was a full day of just kind of like out walking around. And I kept like, oh my gosh, I think it was like the jalapeno is on the pizza. Like I kept having these like pains. And then later on that night, we get home and I'm like, you know, I should probably clean the house. I'm like, dude, cleaning like a crackhead, just like going nuts. And he's like, I'm going to bed. It's already 10 o'clock. Like, I'm tired. I have work tomorrow. I'm like, okay, I'm cleaning. And then I don't know where my water broke. And at first I thought I was peeing. I'm like, oh shoot. And so I'm like running to the bathroom to go pee. And then I walk out of the bathroom and then I'm like, oh my gosh, my I think my water broke. And I'm trying to like, there's no way to hold this in. But you think you could try to like squeeze? Nope. The water's just coming out. Kind of like, you know, not like in the movies, but it's coming. And I'm like, dude, I'm like, this, it's not time yet. It's not time. Like freaking out. But yeah, that whole time, like I even told my mom too, because she had um, did she come over? I think they came over, she called me and kept him like, I don't know, I have a really bad stomachache. Like, I think it was the pizza, but this was contractions that I didn't know were happening. Cause it was so early. I thought this would happen. Like, and it was funny because I didn't work the next day. I think I was just about to take my maternity leave. But that nesting or the what I think that it's nesting when you're cleaning insanely like, you know what? I should probably scrub, you know, the walls and like the baseboards. Like 10 o'clock at night, really. Yeah. Made sense now.

SPEAKER_03 41:50

That's cool. Yeah. So then how long after you had your your child did you guys move back to Idaho?

SPEAKER_00 41:55

So three months. She was three months. I remember it was 4th of July. Um, and he was like, We gotta get out of here.

SPEAKER_03 42:02

And um What made you guys want to get out of there then? Was it?

SPEAKER_00 42:05

I think it was it was so in California, you get like six weeks, you get 12 weeks of maternity leave. I forget how they separate, but it's like six and six. And so my 12 weeks of being on maternity leave is coming, and I was like, Oh my gosh, I don't want to leave her. I don't want to leave her. Like, but it's okay, like I'll go back to work. Like, we were trying to figure out daycare, and then maybe one day for his mom to watch Zoe, and then one day for my mom to watch Zoe. Cause I was just like, I don't want anyone watching her. I was just so freaked out. Like, yeah, I don't want something to happen, and like I'm her mom. Also, she wouldn't take a bottle. That was hard. So I was nursing her and I tried. I remember we tried a few different bottles. We bought this like $30 bottle on Amazon. I'm like, this is the one. I read all the reviews, like it even felt kind of like a different texture almost. It kind of looked like a boob, and I'm like, this is gonna work. I'm gonna go get my hair done. And so I'm at I'm getting my hair done, and they're washing me. And he's calling me. He's like, you could hear her screaming. He's like, she won't take the bottle, she won't take and she's screaming. I'm like, okay, I better go home now. And so with that, I'm like, how am I gonna leave? Like, I could pump and leave milk, but if she's not taking a bottle, how's she gonna eat? So he's like, maybe we just get out of here, find somewhere that's more affordable, and I work and you stay home with her. And I was so down with that. I'm like, and it's funny, we had done a trip to Nashville. Actually, it was to Memphis because I love Elvis. He had taken me when we were dating, we were like maybe two or three years into our dating, and he surprised me for my birthday, took me there, and we ended up going to Nashville. We loved it there. So much fun. And I feel like whenever you go on a trip, you're like, I could see myself living here. He's like, why don't we move to Nashville? I'm like, that is so far away. Like, I'm imagining us driving like a U-Haul with the dog, the baby, us, all of our stuff. I'm like, that's gonna take us a few days to get there. And then if there's an emergency or like all of our families here, we're gonna have to drive or fly. And that's a long flight, too. So I'm like, what? It about Nashville that makes you want to live there. He's like, Everyone was so nice. And they were like that southern hospitality is real. So I'm like, okay. He's like, everyone was so nice and friendly and just, you know, wide open spaces. And I right away thought, here, I'm like, dude, you got to go to Idaho. I had never brought him out here because it was so boring, right? When I lived here. And when we were dating, we were just like party, fun, you know, all that fun stuff in California. Um, but I was like, let's just do like a long weekend. Let's do like a four-day weekend. He's like, okay, I'm down. So we ended up sending out his resume to a few different places. Um, my brother-in-law and him had worked at the same um fire sprinkler company in California. So he kind of had like, hey, I'll put in a good word for you. Um, there's a few other companies. So he kind of had a heads up of where to apply. And we booked an Airbnb in Boise. We came out here in the summer and he loved it. He's like, wow, I love it here. He got offered, you know, the positions. So net now it was like, Where are you, where do you want to work? Like now you get to choose. Um, and then looking for a place to live. It all just happened so quickly. Within those four days, he had a job. We ended up finding like a property management place and lived in a townhouse. And it like within four days, how is that possible? I'm like, yeah, I guess this is where we're supposed to be.

SPEAKER_03 45:16

Yeah, it just all lined up.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

Yeah, it all lined up. Our families were in shock. They're like, what? You're leaving in three weeks? Like, yeah, we're gonna go back. Like, that's when the apartment's ready, and that's when he's gonna tell his job that he's gonna like tripping out, like, what? Yeah. So yeah, we ended up just he had, let's see, the truck, a a flatbed trailer, and then he had a buddy drive my car out here. So me and Zoe flew and met him out here. But he's like, let me just me and my buddy, we'll go out there, we'll unpack everything, and then when you come, you and the baby come, it's all ready to go. I'm like, Cool, I'm down. So and the dog, and they brought the dog. Cool. So yeah, we came out here. It was cool 2016. Zoe was then like four months old when we officially moved here, and it was a fun time, you know. Fall's beautiful here, and then winter came. And I told him, like, he'd asked about the winter. I'm like, oh, it's not bad. Like it just snows up in the mountains, and if there's any, it like melts by the time you know you're driving, not a big deal. If I could do it, you could do it, right? Like, and he's like, Cool. So then um, Snow Mageddon happened. And he's like, You told me it didn't snow here. I'm like, dude, it really doesn't. Yeah. And luckily, like his coworkers, like, no, she's right. Like, this is kind of rare, like, this hasn't happened in a long time. Like, maybe when I grew up and I was a kid, there was a lot of snow, but no, it's normally not like this. Yeah. So that was fun being able to navigate that with a baby.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Yeah. But he ended up, you know, um, that winter he did a lot of snowboarding, so good for him. I wasn't going. I'm like, no, but I have this baby attached to me 24-7. Right. But he liked that because where we lived, going snowboarding was maybe four or five hours away. Tahoe, probably the closest area. And then your lift tickets, they're so expensive. And so here he's like, oh my gosh, it's like 45 minutes away. So he'd do the night pass and go snowboarding at night. Yeah. We ended up doing a date night there, which was fun. Um, once Zoe was old enough to like, she went basically from boob to sippy cup, man. There was no bottles in between. I'm like, oh my gosh. So once she was able to like be home with someone, we're like, yeah, we better go out there because I hadn't been snowboarding in years, but yeah, ton of fun. Um, made it through that. And then we had there was some rockiness in our marriage. Um just kind of throughout it. But we had an opportunity to move to Nampa. Um, my parents actually they had bought a home in Nampa when my sister first moved out here with her son with special needs. And um, my parents wanted to be closer. The plan was for them to move out here in 2008 when my brother graduated high school, but it just never happened. So it became like a rental property. Um, the tenants that were living in that house ended up messaging my parents or calling them and saying, Hey, I got this really cool opportunity to work in Vegas, and like, I don't know if I'm gonna get this opportunity again. So, like, we have to break our lease.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

And my parents right away thought about me and my ex-husband and the baby, and we're like, you know, it's scary having tenants because you don't know if they're gonna take care of your house, but you guys are out there now. Like, do you guys want to live in it? And I mean, if the rent was gonna be the same as what we were paying in a townhouse with a dog, yeah, now we'd have a house with a yard and more space and garage and stuff. So, like, yeah, let's do it. Ended up doing the like small loads with the baby, right? And I'd start packing and then we'd bring stuff to the house. And um, there was this huge cross lit up off the freeway. And I'm like, I had been thinking, like, I need to go to church. Like, I have this little baby, and she's gonna one day ask me about Jesus. And I don't really know anything. I just know, like growing up, what I've learned. And I just kept feeling this tug. And I kept, I remember even before the move, I was trying to find a women's Bible study. A lot of the ones during the day that I wanted to take, I think were maybe retired women. And so when I'd call and be like, Hey, well, can I bring my baby with me? Like, I they're like, Well, we have childcare, you could put her in the nursery. I'm like, No, I don't want to. Yeah, they're like, Well, it might be a distraction. Like, maybe wait until you're ready and then come do Bible study. So I never did one, but seeing that cross lit up, I'm like, oh, let's go see what the name of that church is. That's so cool. Got off the exit, went up there, and I'm like, we're just staring at this huge cross. And I'm like, I'm gonna look up, you know, the name of the church on Google and find the service times. They had five services. I'm like, nice, because Zoe was not a good napper, not a good sleeper. I didn't, I was a stay-at-home mom. I didn't really have her on a schedule. It's kind of like, okay, we'll sleep when she sleeps and take care of stuff in between. But we ended up going that following Sunday, and everyone was so nice. Like, I don't know, at the Catholic Church, I just remember like they have this bowl with water, and you do the sign of the cross when you walk in and you just go to your seat. But here there was people holding the door open for us, saying, like, hi, welcome. And they right away knew that like we were new. Yeah, and like I think they could tell by the look on our face, and like, oh, are you guys new here? I'm like, Yeah, like, oh, cool, follow us. This is where the coffee bar is. This they're like giving us a tourist and just walked up, wow, this is cool. Yeah, if you want to grab a coffee, or we have the free coffee over here, and you know, come this way. And they found us seating. We sat down, loved the worship music. Pastor was amazing. Um, and then part way through, I'm like, oh, she's hungry. So I like sneak out of church, and then he comes with me, and I'm like kind of trying to find a hallway, have a cover up, and I'm nursing her. And one lady comes up, she's like, Hey, she's like, Do you want to go to the nursing room? I'm like, What? She's like, Yeah, come with me. She takes us, and there's like the nursery area, but then like an actual room with like a rocking chair and like a footrest. And she's she hands me a remote. She's like, You could actually watch the service from in here. I'm like, What cool? I'm like, oh my gosh, this is totally our church now. So yeah, we kept going every Sunday after that. Um, and it was cool because again, I'm just learning about this and have my baby who is kind of growing up in the church with it and him too. He was down to go. Then um I remember finally joining a women's Bible study, like slowly dipping into it and learning about Jesus and just like having so many questions, but hearing all the other women share too. Like some of them had been, you know, born in Christianity, some of them were like newcomers like me. Other women were like, Well, I kind of grew up in it, but then I stopped going and now I want to learn about it. So it was cool to have all the different levels of people in their walk with Jesus. And um, one night the leader was like, Oh, yeah, you're you're graduating, right? On Friday. And like, we're all just kind of like, What is she talking about? She's like, Oh, well, celebrate recovery is having their graduation for their 12-step class. You guys should all come and support her. I'm like, I'm down, I'll go support you, not knowing what I was going to.

SPEAKER_01 51:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

And so I had told um Zoe's dad at the time, I'm like, hey, there's this thing on Friday night. One of the women in Bible studies, like, I got invited to go. He's like, Yeah, I'll watch the baby, you go. He didn't really want to go. And um, I'm like, well, the lady said there's childcare, like we could leave her in there. Like, she's not, you know, she has her sippy cup now. He's like, No, I'll just stay home. But part of that was he he was drinking still. That hadn't stopped for him. It had for me because I was still nursing.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

Um, so I hadn't dipped my toe back into drinking again. But I ended up going to celebrate recovery again, worship team. Amazing. And then because it was graduation, people were coming up to get their like certificate that they completed the 12-step class, and the people leading it were talking about like, you know, leading this group, what the leaders experienced, and then each person would come up, get their certificate, and share a little mini testimony. So, like two to three minutes of how this class like changed their life, where they were when they started, where they were when they graduated, and what they're still gonna work. And I'm like, wow, that sounds so cool. And um, the woman that had shared she was struggling with substance abuse. So she had been sober for a few months and was like, you know, I really didn't get sober until joining this class and really having accountability partners. So that was cool. I went home and was like so excited, like, I want to go back, you should come. He didn't want to go, but I kept going. So I found like my Friday night crew, and I didn't, I remember just staying for the large group, which is the worship, a lesson testimony. And um finally I'm like, okay, maybe I'll stay for the two hours. I was just staying for one hour. The second hour is you sit in these groups and people go around and share. And instead of sitting down and someone sharing with you, they just say, Thank you for sharing. Nobody tries to fix your problems, nobody tries to give you feedback or advice. It's just thank you for sharing. Like you're they're giving it to God, right? Like, we can't fix you. So that was huge. But I remember saying, like, hi, my name's Vanessa, and I pass. Like the first two times I did not want to share. I'm like, I'm a hot mess. Like, but I remember hearing women in there saying, like, oh, um, things that they struggled with, like anger, depression, anxiety. Some of them had been through like sexual abuse, which that was something that I had experienced as a kid. Um, and it was something that I think I had suppressed for such a long time that finally sitting in these groups and then later on doing the work, it was something that ended up coming up. Um, I think when you're a kid and you go through trauma, um, your brain blacks it out. Yep, your body blacks it out, and so you just don't remember those things. And there's certain, like as an adult now, certain things that will trigger that and a memory will pop up. Like, I remember actually a few months ago, um, no, it wasn't a few months ago, this had been a year ago. I called my brother. I'm like, dude, I've been having this like seeing this vision or this flashback, and I don't know if it's real. Like, were we almost kidnapped when we were little? He's like, Yeah. I'm like, okay, because this came up, and like during certain therapies that I've done, random things have come up. And it's like, was that real? And part of that is like, am I almost like our brain, like, are we gaslighting ourselves to thinking it's not real? Or have people, yeah, you know, during that trauma, maybe your own Mandela effect. Yes, it's crazy. So um, yeah, it's just, you know, as a kid, I let's see, maybe I was seven years old when I was touched inappropriately by a family member. And it wasn't my, you know, wasn't my parents, wasn't it siblings, nothing close like that, but I just remember feeling ashamed. I felt ashamed of myself and almost like guilty in a way, but also like I didn't want to tell anybody. Like I was just like, oh my gosh. And so when I hear people that talk about it, like when you see things on TV, like, well, why didn't this woman, if that, you know, celebrity or whatever, if they did that to her, why didn't she say something then? I'm like, dude, I totally get that now, but I was a kid and you just don't want to talk about it. You don't want to go there. Um, and then another time I was a teenager, maybe 12, 13, and it wasn't a family member. This was just a random stranger that um touched me inappropriately. And I remember the same thing, like blacking it out, not wanting to talk about it. And at that point, looking back, that's when um I my tomboy clothing and wearing like I would wear men's dickies, like baggy pants, baggy clothes, hoodies, like trying to cover up my body because I didn't want that to happen again. Yeah, it's crazy. Um, and I was bullied in middle school. Like I have a pretty deep voice, and that I mean, I was born this way. Right. And I remember in middle school, it was boys would be like, Oh, she are you a man? You sound like a man. And I'm like, no. And so I never wanted to speak up. And I think part of that, like silencing my voice, not wanting to use it, the public speaking thing, not wanting to talk in front of people, it was hard on me. And now looking back, I'm like, you know what? They're just jealous because um they had the high pitch, right? During puberty voices. And I get now that I'm older and as an adult, I appreciate it. Random people be like, wow, I really love your voice. Like, do you sing? I'm like, no, I used to do drunk karaoke though. Or like you should um do what did someone tell me, like meditation app, like do like affirmations. I'm like, hey, maybe I will one day. We'll see. I'll use it somehow. Like a voice actor? Yeah, voice actor. There we go. Yeah, but um going back to celebrate recovery, I dove into it. So I was able to use the 12 steps, which is similar to AA. Um, they just use the biblical comparisons. And I jumped into a 12-step group and was able to work on childhood traumas and just different things. Like one of the questions I remember in the beginning of the there's like four books you go through. It's a lot of work. It takes like 10 months, sometimes a year, to get through all of the work. Every week you're meeting up, you have homework you're doing, you're praying about it, reading the bookwork, and then answering these questions. And one of the questions was about how do you, or what are the characteristics of your heavenly father? You know, he is faithful, he is loyal, he is loving, he's caring, he's protective of me. Um, just going on and on. And then it's like, okay, what are the characteristics of your earthly father? How are they the same and how are they different? I'm just so blessed. Like, I have an amazing dad. I love my dad. We are like this. He's one of my besties. And I just think of, you know, people that I would in this class, you know, you hear things of how they didn't have a good dad, how their dad wasn't there, or how they didn't have a good mom. And I just feel pretty blessed that I have both of my parents growing up. And again, they did the best they could. And I think now that I've gone through this process of doing the 12 steps multiple times, leading the groups now, and I'm like, man, I really wish my parents could do it. I wish everyone could do it because you think my parents probably have childhood trauma from their parents, right? And then those things are passed down, but do they know? I think they do know. They know the hard stuff that they went through, but I don't know that they've processed it. I don't, I don't think either of my parents have done therapy. I'm huge about like an advocate for therapy and doing whatever it is that you need to do to help yourself. So that was huge in my recovery. Through the 12 steps, I think I was three months in. I ended up finding out that my ex-husband was um having an emotional affair, and that was hard for me. And then I found out about drug use that I thought, you know, that had all stopped when I got pregnant. But he started using again and drinking, and we ended up separating for a month or two, and just, you know, I leaned into my women's group. They were praying for me. They're actually praying for him, which shocked me. I'm like, what? He's a bad guy here. But they're like, no, we need to pray for him because you know what? He's God's son too. He's God's son, and that's our brother in Christ. And we need to pray for him to get better, to get well, to make better choices. And you know how hard it is to pray for your enemy at the time?

SPEAKER_03 59:44

Yeah, I was just reading that in Romans 12 on our Bible study. That was we were just talking about that on Tuesday.

SPEAKER_00 59:49

It's hard, but that's crazy. Yeah, we ended up reconciling, and part of that was he had to go to celebrate recovery. He had to, you know, be at church on Sundays, which he he did a pretty good job showing up, but sometimes he was hungover, sometimes didn't want to go or would make excuses. Um, and then I wanted him to get a sponsor and just like work the steps because I knew what it had was already doing for me. And so I knew that it could help him, and I really wanted him sober. Um, so I went through that program and then let's see, worked through our marriage, still not perfect, but um we ended up getting pregnant again, having Gabby, and that was during COVID. I had the she was born in May, COVID shutdown was in March, and that was interesting. Like, he couldn't towards the end, he couldn't go in with to any of the appointments with me, which was weird. But I do remember them asking, like, do you mind if our intern like sits in on this appointment? He was so upset. He's like, Really? You're gonna have an intern in there, but not her dad. Like so upset about the whole thing. But we made it through, had Gabby, and it was amazing. Like, even that, like, it was such a good pregnancy for me. I loved it. I loved being pregnant with her. I think because I wasn't as scared as the first time.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:05

Um, did you find out that you were gonna have a girl then, or did you want to try and go?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:09

Yeah, we did. We did. Well, because um we wanted to do like a gender reveal. I'm like, you know what? If you want to find out, let's at least do something like fun as opposed to you ripping it open and telling me. Yeah. We ended up going down to California for Valentine's Day, and it was like, if you think it's a boy, we're red. If you think if it's a girl, we're pink. Um, and so everyone was in red. I even thought it was a boy. Like with Zoe, my cravings were like sweets, fruit. Um, and then with Gabby, it was like, I want cheeseburgers, I want beef. Like every day I wanted a burger. I'm like, yeah, this is kind of different. I it probably is a boy. Nope, turned out being a girl. But I'm excited. My daughters, like their relationship as sisters, it's fun to watch. It's really fun to watch. Um, so that was fun. Um, he ended up actually like re-proposing to me when Gabby was like, oh, let's see, a month and a half, two months old. And that was fun because the girls were there and just said, like, I want to marry you again. I want to like do this the right way. Like, because when we did the little elopement, yeah, we didn't, it wasn't in church, we hadn't been going to church, we didn't have like our a pastor there. So he's like, Yeah, let's do it with Pastor Steve, and like we'll plan it. I'm like, oh my gosh, like this is so exciting. Well, right after that, um I found out that my sister had been murdered. It was like this super high high.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:33

And then after Valentine's Day?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:37

No, this was um so after Gabby was born. So Gabby was born in May, and then he did like the proposal thing in like July 2020, and then August. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:52

That was your younger sister?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:53

That was my oldest sister. So the one that was 14 years older than me. Yeah, and that's been the hardest thing that I I've ever had to go through. Like I just remember um and now I don't live in the house. I don't live in the house that you know my parents rental home. Um I remember being in the shower and I heard a scream, and then but I thought maybe it was a TV or something, and my ex-husband knocks on the door. He's like, Hey, when you're done, um, can you come downstairs? And I'm like, and he sounded kind of weird. I'm like, okay. And I'm right away thinking his grandma died. That was the only thing I could think of, like of how serious his tone was, and he sounded shaky.

unknown 1:03:37

I'm like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:39

And luckily we had FaceTime, she lives in Mexico, super cute. I love his grandma. Um, but I just remember she's the oldest person, and you know, we had just visited with her. But I remember him sitting me down and telling me that my sister had passed away. And I'm thinking, like, I'm freaking out, but then when he told me what happened, I'm really freaking out. And I was still in disbelief. Like I didn't I didn't believe it, I didn't want to believe it. Um I remember calling my dad and asking him if it was true. And uh hearing my dad cry was confirmation. Um and just with like social media, you know, when anything happens, people start blasting it so they knew we need to tell her before she signs out on like Facebook or Instagram. Um yeah, I was in complete shock. And I remember my ex-husband had to call our pediatrician because I I couldn't nurse my baby. Like within hours, like my body just went into shock and she didn't want my milk, and my milk supply was just kind of drying out already, which is crazy. Like how your everything is so connected, and just the nervous system and just the shock of everything. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep. Um, I remember um they hadn't caught the guy who killed her. So she this was a guy that she had dated. They had broken up. There had already been some domestic violence going on. And so I remember her. I guess she had confided in my mom about it, and my mom was like, Well, just come stay with us, and she's like, No, I don't want him to I don't want him to bring problems to your house. And I was like, That's insane, like you have to like come. She didn't want to, and then with COVID, like you know, you can't in California it was insane, so you couldn't be like, Yeah, all the things were just wild, but um really locked down locked down, and I think my parents were on a curfew. I'm like, you're in your 60s, how are you on a curfew? Interview. Like, what? He's like, Yeah, I could only go to work and then back home. Like, that's crazy. But yeah, um, my parents kept telling me, Don't come out here, don't come out here. Um, and then finally they caught the guy two days later. I think part of it was they wanted to make sure it was safe for them to like get him right. Like there were eyes on him, they knew where he was. He had phones, and there's all these ways of tracking him, but they wanted to make sure they were able to do it in a safe way. Yeah. And so um I went down there a week later, and thank you, thank God I had Jesus. Like I had done so much work and had my, you know, accountability partners, my sponsor, my prayer groups, like the church community they had built. All the prayers literally carried me. There's no way I would have been able to like get through that without them. So I um went down to California, started helping make funeral arrangements. My parents are just heartbroken, right? In complete shock. And you could just tell, like, it took a toll on all of us, but mainly them. And um, went down there, try to make funeral arrangements. You could only have 60 people at the funeral, which is crazy because we're Mexican. Like, dude, we're there's so many of us. So I had to call some of our family and be like, hey, just wanted to invite you to the funeral, but um your kids can't come. So it was almost like a hierarchy, like the aunts, but like the cousins couldn't come, and the next in line of who could. I'm like, my own kids aren't coming. Like I'm leaving them with my in-laws, so me and my husband at the time could go to the funeral. I'm like, no kids are going, it's just kind of adults, and they're telling us we can only have 60 people. Um, and I remember that took a long time too. I think we were down there for three weeks, just down because so part of the investigation, the detectives and investigative work they have to do in my sister's apartment. And then the coroner's office. I remember them calling and meet. I took care of a lot of that stuff because again, my parents could not. And I was the only one there. My brother was in jail at the time. My sister that lives in Idaho, she just couldn't come, um, setting arrangements upright for her son with special needs, and then she has two other boys, and just you know, and we really didn't want the kids to know what happened to their aunt. Like, I don't even think I I don't know when I'll tell my kids what happened to her. I've kind of let them make up their own ideas. There's a it's funny because there's a picture of selfie. I have it tattooed of me on my arm of my sister, and this is the selfie that we love of her, and um it's in her car. Like she took a selfie, so they think that she went to heaven driving. That's the story that my kids think. Oh, Nina's in heaven because she was driving to heaven. And I've just left it at that because I don't know how to explain this to now a five and nine-year-old. I don't want to scare them. Eventually, yes, I will tell them when they're old enough. But um, the coroner's office called and said we can't release her body yet. We still need to do some more like examination because it was blunt force trauma, and we just need to see more things. I'm like, okay, so like how do we plan a funeral? Again, it took like three weeks to do it because the investigation's still going on and craziness. Um, I remember finally being able to plan the funeral, and you have to hire a professional cleaning company when something like that happens to clean up the crime scene. And I had to go make old school like poster boards with pictures, like collages, because we couldn't do an indoor funeral, like at a funeral home because of the six feet whatever distance thing and blah, blah, blah. So I couldn't do a slideshow, which would have been so much easier. But so I'm like, okay, I gotta go to her house. I know she has pictures in there. And when I went to go look, I seen a lot of stuff that was not cleaned. And I'm like, and my mom caught me when I was just kind of like in a daze, and she's like, What's wrong? And I'm like fixated, and then my mom looked and she's like, Oh my gosh. And so I I ripped them anew and just like, hey, we need to get someone out here because I could see a lot of what happened here. Like, my mind is just yeah, and I'm such a visual person. So they went and brought someone else in. I was able to get the pictures, make the slideshow. Um, I was able to, you know, speak at her funeral, which was we were really close growing, like not growing up, but as I became an adult because that age gap, I feel like she kind of treated me like I was her kid. Because her and her me and her son grew up together, right? Um, and then as we got older, I was more, we were more sisters, right? And sometimes I'm like, wait, whose side are you on? Minor moms, like you're my sister. But that motherly instinct would come in. But I was able to speak, and I know it was because of Jesus, like having that strength to be able to do that. Um, and I miss her. I mean, I do know that sharing my story and sharing, you know, how much I miss her and what happened, you know, part of her story in my story that I do want to help women that are going through domestic violence or that have been through whatever they've been through. Um, God doesn't waste a hurt and he'll use our stories, he'll use that hurt to help someone else. So there's a part of me that knows I need to do something with that. I don't know what it is yet. Um there's part of me that kind of knows, but I'm like, oh, am I ready like to really fully jump into doing something like that? But I try to just keep her memory alive and talk about her where I know there's other people in my family that grief is different. Um, I've also done a lot of work. Like after we came back from California after the funeral and came here, I did go through a deep depression. Like there, it was like I was surrounded by all the family and busy planning all these things and doing this and doing that and making all these arrangements. And then I came back home and it was like complete silence. COVID's still whatever a thing. Some people are, you know, okay coming to visit me, some people are not. Right. You know, the whole mask thing, and it was very lonely. And I remember just thinking, I need to do something. I signed up for therapy, kept going to celebrate recovery. I did a really cool therapy called EMDR. Have you ever done that?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:14

I've never done it. I've heard about it. But I what exactly is it? I've heard about it, but I've got to do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:18

I think I'm gonna botch up what it means. So EMDR, eye movement desensitizing, reprocessing, I think. I know it's for trauma.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:28

Because I I had a guy on here that he was in a shooting and he went through it.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

Yeah, it's really good. So they ended up attaching like a like these ear pieces that make like beep, beep, beep noises. It's bilateral movement in your brain. So when you're dreaming, you're using both hemispheres of your brain, the left and right, and that's how you're able to see things. So with this, they're trying to activate that. So doing the beeping or holding paddles that vibrate, you're activating those two. And so I went through and told my therapist the entire story of my sister, the parts that you know, she suffered, right? Like there was there's a part of me, and it's crazy to even say that. Like, I I wish he would have just shot her and killed her in one boom and her be done, but that wasn't the case. Like the um fire department ambulance ended up coming, taking her, lifelighting her to the trauma center, and she fought. She kept trying to stay, she wanted to stay, and finally like let go. And by the time they told my parents that actually, because I wasn't here, they told my parents to go to the police department so that they could identify the man. And when they went there to identify, they're like, We're actually here to tell you that like she's gone, like you know. And my mom kind of knew already just by when she went to her apartment being blocked off with all the stuff. Um, and with COVID, they didn't wouldn't let my parents in the hospital, like they couldn't be with her. Wow, yeah. So part of what hurt me was that she was alone, right? Like she was alone when she passed, and I didn't get to say goodbye. So in EMDR, I was able to tell my therapist, well, having the ear thing and the paddles, the entire story, and they had like a heart monitor on me so he could see when my heart rates get like when you're describing some of this stuff, it's like well, then he's like, Okay, now I want you to go through and tell me what you would have wanted to happen. And so I was able to reprocess this story. And he's like, Things might pop up that don't make sense to you. Like, I can't tell you what you're gonna see, everyone's experience is different. You might pop up and see like a cartoon or like Minnie Mouse and like a rowboat. Like, I can't tell you what's gonna happen, but your body will do what it's gonna do in your mind. And so I start telling the story from beginning to end, from you know, when I got the phone call all the way until when I had to say goodbye. And in my session, I was able to be there with her and tell her and hold her. And I'm in the apartment with her, holding her upstairs, and the guy's already gone. And I'm like, hey, like, Andrea, the ambulance is coming. I could hear them. And then I hear just like wheels banging on the stairs coming up, and I'm like, okay, the they're here, they're here to take you. Like the gurney's coming up, and I turn and look, and Jesus is holding the gurney. And so I literally handed my sister to Jesus on the gurney. And then somehow it fast forwards to her being in a helicopter, and Jesus is like with her, and I drove. So somehow I met the helicopter and drove there, and I'm in the hospital, and a part of me is almost like it's like an outer body experience where I see the big light in the emergency room and her body, and they're working on her, and I'm just like waiting for them to bring her back. And out of nowhere, I just see like I don't know if it's her soul or what, but I see her come out of her body and she's wearing all white, which me and her love black, like we always wear black. So to see her in all white, and she has her hair up in her bun, like she normally had, and then I see her and Jesus walking together, and they're like side by side, just like shooting the bowl, like chopping it up, and they're happily laughing, walking together, and they're just going away from me. And I'm still in the emergency room by the lights, and her body's there, but I see her walking with him into the clouds. And I remember my therapist, because I had got silent, and I guess my heart just slowed down. He's like, What did you just see? And when I shared that with him, he started crying too. He's like, Your faith, her faith, like, you know, you know where she is. And so now instead of seeing what I seen in her apartment or the things that have been described by the detectives and the coroner's office, I see her with Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:43

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:45

Yeah, it's giving me so much peace. So, like on the hard days, like her birthday's on Friday, usually birthdays and anniversaries of her death, it's hard. It's hard for me. And I never know what's gonna trigger it. Like some days I hear a song that she would play and I love it, and then other days I hear a song and I'm just upset that she's not here. But one thing that's been great about church, my Jesus journey, having faith and working my celebrate recovery 12-step program is I was able to write that man a forgiveness letter. Yeah, it's crazy because when she passed, um, it took me a long time. I fell into depression. I was, you know, postpartum, even like with the baby. She was only two months old when my sister passed, and I did what I only knew to do, you know, Bible study, prayer, like doing my 12-step, like even serving. So I serve on the leadership. I was still helping other women like heal through their stuff as I'm trying to heal through my stuff. And that's how it works, right? Like you do it with your community. And Jesus never made us to do it alone. He wants us to do it with other people and with him. So a year goes by, my sister has been gone, and it hit me. Like that one year mark, it hit me like a ton of bricks. And I just fell apart and just couldn't, like, I finally like it, like she's not coming back. You know, first Christmas, first Thanksgiving, first birthday without her, all the things. And now it's like the one year anniversary. And um a month after her one year, and I had just like fallen apart, like I remember thinking, like, I think I need to go to the doctor. Like, I think I'm going crazy. I told my ex-husband that I'm like, I think I'm going crazy. It's like, then you should go go to the doctor. But I'm thinking maybe he's gonna take me. Or like, you know, I'm going crazy here. Like, my mind is just now it's getting worse. I thought the grief was supposed to get better with time. It's getting worse. And a month after that, I found out he was there was another betrayal. So he was having an affair. And I'm like, oh my gosh. So now I'm like, I really need to go to a doctor. Like, I need, like, I'm really gonna lose my mind here. And um, I did, I ended up going to the doctor. And he went with me and he took me, he didn't take me, but at this time he's already living with the other woman and doing whatever. And I'm trying to figure out how am I doing this as a single mom? And like, I wasn't eating, wasn't sleeping again, just kind of like, what? My world has got flipped. Like, I thought I was getting better with losing my sister a year ago. Now this, and got flipped again. So um, I and the doctor's like, why didn't you bring her in here sooner? Like, trauma, it affects the brain, like it'll affect the brain, and we need to at least get her on something that's just gonna help, kind of until she works through this grief, right? And he's like, you know, you guys want to do couples counseling? Like, I don't recommend this happening right now while she's going through that. He's like, no, like, you know, it's done. And I'm like, yeah, it's done. So going through that betrayal with him, um, and talking to like my community, I'm like, you know, I think, because he had mentioned something like, you know, when you lost your sister, it just kind of like went downhill from there. Like our marriage went downhill. And I'm thinking, Your ex-husband said that yeah, like, you know, you change, you're not the same person. Like, dude, yeah, like the way I lost her, too, that's pretty traumatic. And I just had a baby, like all the things, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:10

Yeah, so your emotions are all over the place, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:12

Yep. And uh so I sat down and thought about it. I'm like, yeah, this guy that you know killed my sister, he did rob a part of me, like my happiness, my joy, and just even Gabby. Like, I think about my youngest. A lot of the when she was a baby, like I was sad for part of it because I missed my sister, but I tried to enjoy that time with her that I had. Um, and I'm like, I have to forgive this guy. It's like making me bitter and like it ruined my marriage. Like, cause I'm thinking it's my fault, right? And I'm like, oh my gosh. So I talked to my sponsor. I'm like, I need to write a forgiveness letter to this man. I'm gonna pray about it. I'm gonna pray about it, prayed about it for like a month, finally got a journal and just started writing like everything. Like, I forgive you for taking her, I forgive you for like the future that I don't have with her. My my youngest daughter didn't get to meet her. Like, you know, she's missing out on her nieces and nephews, and like being a grandma. If my nephew ever has, you know, a kid one day, and just listing so many things that I had to forgive this man for, my nightmares, the trauma that the PTSD that I experienced, like no one could knock on our door because I'd like to get scared and jumpy. Like, even now, sometimes people scare me and I'm like, oh, like, don't do that. Um, like having to have lights on, night lights at night, like being afraid of the dark, just constantly looking over my shoulder, thinking someone's gonna come and kill my kids and me, like just crazy thoughts that I wouldn't have thought before. And um, pinatas, it freaked me out hearing the noise. I couldn't, I left a birthday party once and he couldn't figure out why I ran out of there. But I wrote a forgiveness letter to this man, did not mean it, dude. I just wrote it down. I kept praying, like, God help me to give this to you. Like, how do I forgive this man? And um, I knew we were gonna have to go to court. Like, I need to forgive this man because I know I'm gonna want to try to kill him when we're in there. Like, how do you not, right? Yeah, like I'm gonna get arrested for trying to jump and like strangle this man or do something to him, and then I'm gonna be in prison and my kids aren't gonna have a mom. Just craziness. So I wrote the forgiveness letter, read it to my sponsor, cried, prayed, then read it to an accountability partner, cried, prayed, and I just kept reading over it, and it helped. It helped a ton. After reading that forgiveness letter, literally two weeks later, it's almost Thanksgiving, and we get a call that he was in the hospital. And so this he's already been in jail for about a year. He's in protective custody, they have him isolated. People were trying to get to him before that. He had tried a couple times to commit suicide, but didn't follow through on it. Um, and so when they said he was in the hospital, I'm like, oh, something happened. But a week later, it was released that he had passed away. And it's crazy because before writing that forgiveness letter, I had some crazy prayers, like, oh, just violent prison death. That's what I'm praying for him, right? Like all this anger, like I wanted revenge. And but I think about it, all that energy that I had that was so bitter, like that was just eating me and like taking away my joy. And that's what they say, for unforgiveness, it's like drinking the poison, expecting it to kill the other person. But I was poisoning myself with just all that bad energy, unforgiveness, bitterness, and resentment. And so I felt good that I had forgiven him before he passed. I don't know if he accepted Jesus before. Um, but just knowing like I had already let him go. It's crazy because a month later I had a dream about me, him, and my sister in a jail cell. And I think I was going to get him or something, and my sister intervened, comes in, and she's like, hey, like, you don't have to worry about that anymore. It's not yours. You don't have to worry about that. It's not yours to manage. Like, just give it to God. And then she left the jail cell and he did too. And I'm just like in a jail cell, like, and then I was able to walk out. It was like I wasn't, I was in a prison myself, yeah, right, with unforgiveness. So after that, I'm like, you know what? I need to forgive my ex-husband. So through the divorce process, I was able to and this the letter that I wrote to the man who took my sister, her ex-boyfriend, I couldn't send that because it was still we're waiting for court to come. I couldn't send him a letter, but it was just for me. Like he didn't even need to know that I forgave him. It was just for me. And then I later I wrote one for my ex-husband, like forgiving him for all the things, and finally came to the place of accepting. Like, you know, when you pray for something and pray for something and it's a no from God, you're just like, why? Now I'm like, now I know why. Like God had a better plan for me. And I was able to forgive him. And there's sometimes where, you know, later on he did things that I had to forgive again and again and again, right? How many times does he tell us we have to forgive? 70 times seven or something. Yeah. Right? It's gonna, it's gonna be a thing that we have to do until the day I die. I'm gonna have to forgive someone for something. Yeah. Right? Whether it's like someone flips me off or like driving like a grandma with like cruise control on, or who knows, I'm gonna offend someone not knowing it.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:21

Or I'm gonna have to go to someone and be like, hey, like, can you forgive me? Like, I'm sorry and have to make that amends.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:26

Yeah. What was it that actually flipped your mind that you had to forgive him? Because you said you were right in stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:33

Okay, so okay, so what's interesting is our church did a um class, like a closed 12-step class for women that had had abortions. And so that was it. It's like, how God already forgave me for that, but I haven't forgiven myself for doing that. So I ended up joining that class, and there was only five of us. They almost didn't do the class too, because like, oh, we need 12 participants. Luckily, the lady that was hosting was like, even if I only get one person, like I'm still doing the class. So going through that class and learning about forgiveness and then learning about like post-abortion, like PTSD in a way, like the things that they don't tell you about. So I was 21. I'm trying to think back what year that was, but you basically could walk into a planned parenthood, say you want to have an abortion, give them, I think it was like 500 bucks, and then it's transactional. Go in and do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:25

Uh in California, was there like any cutoff of like how old the baby would be or anything?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:31

I don't even remember. I think I was like maybe six or seven weeks pregnant. It was like right when I found out that I was pregnant. And um yeah, now that I know what I know, I'm like, oh my gosh. And so yeah, I did that post-abortion class and worked with I there was a woman in there that was much older than me and hearing her story of how she had to, because it was illegal at the time and how she had to flee to like another state, and like contemplating whether or not doing the wire hanger thing to herself, and just like, holy smokes. Wow, and never telling anyone she had never told anyone about it. Um like growing up, I knew a couple women like in my friend group that had done it a couple times and even gone back and done like the pill part where you take one pill and then another pill like multiple times. And so I'm just like, I don't know, was it again? I didn't grow up with the Jesus thing. Had I known that, I probably would have thought differently, but oh yeah, it's not the right time, like boom. Yeah, no, like I don't whatever the situation was for the people that were doing it at the time, it's like, yeah, no, like just kind of like a hookup or whatever it was. But working through that and working through it with Jesus, like, he already forgave me for this. Why am I still like taking this out on myself and like feeling guilty? And we got to even like name our baby, and like when you do that, like think about it. You've lost a child, but you've never had a funeral for them. We had a funeral for them, and but in the beginning, it was more on us and our decision, and why did we do that? And like not knowing, and again, it was like another 16 week class that I did. Did and just diving into scripture about it and leaning on these other women. We cried together, we prayed together, and like we all regret it. Every one of us in that class regrets it. But there's things that we do that you can't go back and change, but you have to forgive yourself. So that's what actually after doing that class, and then um kind of just waiting time because I'm like, how do I forget? Like how? Like, God, how do I forgive him for that? Like, how does someone do that?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:27

Because I never thought I'd be able to. Like I thought it was gonna take years. Maybe never, but he kept putting it on my heart to do that. And honestly, the release and like letting go of that, letting go of you know, my ex-husband, letting go of him, letting go of all the things, even my sister, like being able to let go of the fact that I couldn't say goodbye. That's out of my control.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:54

And now I could share that. Like, I share that when I share my testimonies about that. And wildly enough, a few months ago, I started serving at um Boise Rescue Mission with the Cradle of Hope program. Not something I would have ever thought I'd be in. Be working with women that um are pregnant with unwanted pregnancies, or maybe they're homeless going through domestic violence situations, and I get to help them. And Idaho, you know, it's illegal now to have an abortion in Idaho. And now that I am where I am now, I get it. But it's interesting because then I feel like a hypocrite. How can I tell people, like, oh, don't do that? Right. But I did it. So I think my story with that is interesting because I could share, you know, what I did, how I feel about it now. And with these women that are kind of like scared to have a baby that come to Boise Rescue Mission, it's an amazing program. Like the Cradle of Hope program helps these women, teaches them. Some of them don't know how to be a mom, some of them didn't have their mom teaching them how to do laundry, how to cook, how to set a schedule. Like they're going through classes like love and logic, parenting classes, boundaries classes. That's something like I learned a year ago was like boundaries. Man, if I learned that when I was like in high school, how cool would that be? Yeah. So it's pretty cool. And I get to rock their babies and hold their babies, take them to prenatal appointments. Like, God has used, right, my dirt, my filth, and now showing me like now I'm able to use you here.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:23

Yeah, the thing that you think disqualifies you is what actually qualifies you.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:26

Yeah. It's insane. And the thing that I was most ashamed of, I didn't want anyone to know. Like, even like the first time I shared my testament, like, oh my gosh, my pastor's in here, he's gonna hear about me being like, oh my gosh, I'm the worst person ever. Yeah. And so it's like, okay, so I actually like murdered my own child. When I say that out loud, that's what I did. And then I think about this man that murdered my sister. Like, if God could forgive me, he could forgive him, I could forgive him, but that grace, that unmerited favor. Yeah. Like grace is a gift.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:00

How do you get someone to understand that wants to get an abortion that is murder and it's not just like a transactional thing?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:07

Oh my gosh, there's so many things. I want to go, like this is something I want to do is like go to these clinics or maybe like plan parent, wherever, and just tell them, like, can we do more for these women? Like, can we educate them on what's gonna happen? Cause that wasn't, I didn't get a pamphlet, like, hey, after you do this, you're gonna be depressed, have anxiety. Anytime you hear a vacuum go on, like a vacuum hose, you're gonna think about this situation. Or, you know, even like going through the grocery store, some of the butcher shops. I don't know if it's like a vacuum seal or what, you could hear it. And I'd be like, it would trigger that. Like, why? And now I know what that is. It's when they go through and do they basically like take the baby out, right? Oh, okay. But I wish they would be like, here's a pamphlet, or like, let's do three counseling sessions before you have the um abortion. So let's talk about why you want to have it, why you think you're not, you know, is it financial? Because I could connect you with some resources if you really want to have this baby and it's financial. Is it that you don't have a place to live? Is it that your family like get down to what it is and maybe they don't know about what's out there for them?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:11

Like at the time, I was just kind of like, wow, like, no, I'm a party animal. I'm irresponsible, like I don't have a steady job. Like, this is a boyfriend that I've been with for like a year, but I don't know if this is gonna work out. How would I be a single mom? Like, do three therapy sessions with them, find out why it is that they want to have the abortion. Tell them what's gonna happen after they have the abortion, that they're maybe having crying spells, they'll be depressed. Um, they might become an alcoholic, they might start using something else as a coping mechanism. They're not actually gonna do experience grief like a normal person does with, you know, like I said, the funeral procession and like recognizing that that was a person and say your goodbyes.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:49

Maybe say you're sorry to the baby, what you would have done differently. Like, there's so much that I think these clinics can do besides, okay, you want to have an abortion, here we go. Maybe do an ultrasound, let them hear the heartbeat, let them know how many fingers and toes, like more educational, I think would be good.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:06

Yeah, because the planned parentheads, they make a lot of money off of them too, because then they sell they sell like the stem cells and stuff like that, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:13

I have no idea. I haven't even gone through the rabbit hole to like research that, but my ADHD will probably do that later tonight. Yeah, like I end up just like spiraling.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:22

I haven't looked at it either, but I've heard that they like yeah, it's it's very crazy the stuff that they do with.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:28

And I feel I don't know, for me, it was immediate regret. Like once the procedure was done, it was like and you're drugged up a little bit, so you're kind of like drowsy out of it when they do it. So I don't know, but it's been a blessing being able to like work with these pregnant women that you know, again, some of them they've been in interesting situations and just to instill hope, like, hey, you could totally do this. Look, we have this, we have this class, that class, you're gonna be ready, you're gonna be an amazing mom. Like, God gave you this blessing. And some of them don't know Jesus that come to the program. So we have Bible study, we do devotional, and it's been cool to see some of them that are non-believers start to believe and have faith and know that, like, yeah, like I'm gonna be a good mom, and like I have all this support, and I have other single moms in here that are doing the same thing as me. I'm not alone.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:16

Yeah, that's the worst part, is feeling like you're alone.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:18

Or you're the only one. Like, dude, no, come on now, you're not. Like, even I think about that, like with the grief thing, it was hard because like there wasn't anyone going through the same thing as me. Like, oh, you know, I don't know. Sometimes I would think, like, if she had died of cancer, maybe there's like a cancer support group of siblings that have lost, you know, but with hers, it was different. Yeah. And then later I learned there's actually like it's called Kim Fest that they do, they've done here in Nampa, and it's dedicated. I think her name is Kim, a woman that had been murdered here in Idaho, and I think her sister hosts it, and it's like domestic violence awareness. So there's all these things that I'd love to be a part of, and just, you know, in a way to honor my sister. But the things that I've learned through it too have been pretty cool. And being able to talk to some of these women that again have been through domestic violence, that maybe they're about to have a baby. It's like I could use those two experiences in my life to to help them.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:10

Yeah, I'm sure you're making a huge impact on everybody around you.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:13

I mean, I don't I can't, so it's interesting because it's about them, right? So I don't share like my personal testimony, but you know, just being able to pray with them when they're having a down day, encourage them.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:22

Yeah. Have you been able to talk to someone that was thinking about getting an abortion and help them decide that they're go a different way?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:31

No, but I did have one woman who shared with me that I think her partner um had ordered an abortion pill online, and luckily it didn't work. And I guess there's a two-part to it, and um there it's reversible. So there is um the abortion reversible. Oh man, I wish I had the pamphlet or the phone number with me. But if you Google like abortion reversal hotline or something, there's a way to reverse it. If you take in the first pill and you immediately have regrets, you could call this hotline and they will help prescribe progesterone to like the nearest pharmacy or your doctor, and that's supposed to help keep the baby in. Because what's in the pill helps remove, I guess, progesterone keeps it in. Again, I'm not I don't know the science behind here or the scientific stuff, but I have seen it in some of the resources. So hearing her story, but no, I haven't had anyone come. But since it's illegal here, people would have to go to surrounding states to do that, or again online, which I'm like, maybe it wasn't even legit. Maybe it was placebo, maybe it was something fake they were selling you to just I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:33

Yeah, I guess there's a Planned Parenthood in Ontario.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:36

Yeah, that would be the closest one here.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:37

Yeah. Yeah, that's uh that's amazing. Like all the stuff that you've had to go through, and and you know, I'm sure that you had doubts in the moment of God, why me?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:49

I know. Well, especially like I'll say, like going through the divorce, that was another hard thing. I still say, like, if I had to rate them, my losing my sister was the hardest. Yeah. Um, the divorce, that was interesting, rough, and you know, it's not something that I wanted, right? But then I look at God, like it was a way out because biblically I had, you know, grounds for divorce, and I don't know, I've grown a lot since then. Like, dude, I wouldn't have met you at the gym if I didn't go through my divorce. Like, it's interesting. You know, I went through the divorce and then wanted to be better for myself. Like, I could do hard things. And I remember having my little dumbbells in the garage with, you know, Amir and the bench and just doing these home workouts, YouTube, online workouts. And then my nephew came out to visit me when he found out that I was going through the divorce and just was like, get up, we're going. He took me to an anytime fitness and was like, we're getting to our membership. He's like, She you need to get out of the house. You can't just isolate and be depressed. And like, you know, part of me was like, almost embarrassed. My mom's like, what are you embarrassed about? Like, you have stuck to your vows and like you were faithful and you honored your husband. Like, you know, there's no reason you've done nothing wrong here. I'm like, okay, you're right. So I started going to the gym, um, started working again. And one of my friends that also is a cosmetologist was like, noticed that I'd been going to the gym for she's like, dude, why don't you do you should do a show? I'm like, what's a show? She's like, you should do bodybuilding show. She was training for wellness. She's like, you're already going to the gym. You already packed your meal prep. Like, dude, you're halfway there. Just go get yourself a coach and like do a show. So I'm like, what is this all about? So then there I go again, down the Google rabbit hole. And I just found like the closest coach near me. I got pretty lucky. Um, Big John was my coach, and it was amazing. Like, especially with the whole PCOS stuff. With the nutrition plan he had me on, I actually started getting regular cycles. And I thought that was something from you know post-abortion or PCOS. And eating healthy, going to the gym, it almost became like a new addiction for me, and just seeing the improvement in myself, feeling better, having to plan and prepare. So that kind of got me through my divorce a bit. And then the gym, like gym community. Um, I made some pretty cool friends at any time. And I remember getting ready for some of the like divorce court stuff, which thankfully was through Zoom, which made it easier. Because it was on COVID. Mm-hmm. Still like it was still going on. So let's see, we that my sister passed in 2020. So yeah, 2021, I filed for divorce, and then it was everything was still going through Zoom at the time, which I'm like, I'm cool with that. I could just sit in my car and do this on like a lunch break. Um, but yeah, I it was a lot of ups and downs with like the kids, the exchanges, and uh tough times. Like, you know, not nice things were said, like in court, and then things about you, but it's like, okay, you hire an attorney, right, to make you look good on the paper, like resume, and then in court, and then I guess they do have to bash the other parent, right? Like, I don't know. It was hard, but being in the gym, doing bodybuilding, like finding a sport that pushed me to really do hard things, yeah. And stay disciplined. That was part of it, staying disciplined. Cause I remember there was a point where I'm like, oh my gosh, I just want to go like freaking slash his title, like go crazy, right? And I just want to like put it all out there of everything he's doing. And I remember my friends from church were like, no, Vanessa, like, keep it classy. And like, don't nope, like you don't need to go to that level. And I'm so thankful I didn't. Like, there's no trace on the internet or social media of me badmouthing anyone. There's no like nothing, nothing in writing where I badmouthed anyone, kept my side of the street clean.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:26

But I remember just people like, wow, how are you doing this? And it's like, well, the discipline it takes for prep, right? Drinking your gallon of water, taking your supplements, getting up and doing cardio. Sometimes two towards the end, it was like two a day, like weight training in the morning, cardio at night. Yep. Um, do even check-ins. I'm like, oh, I gotta take pictures again. Just, you know, all the things you got to check off your list. And then on top of that, working, being a mom, doing my Bible study, reading, praying, like it all takes discipline. That's one thing I love about our sport.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:56

Yeah. Yeah, this is my first one, and I'm I'm still like 12 weeks out, a little under 12 weeks out now, and I'm just like, oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:03

It's good for you. It's the mental, like the mental part of it is huge.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:07

Well, for me, anything that's like a hard task to accomplish is where I find myself starting to regain confidence.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:14

Like it's easy to lose confidence when you're just being comfortable. But then when you can like start stacking these small wins and doing some hard stuff, or there's this um, there's this guy, he makes like the big ass calendars. I used to have one, but um he's got like it he talks about the Masogi. It's a Japanese kind of idea that you have one hard task a year, and like that just sets a precedence for the whole year. So whether it's you know, just staying moving for some people go like running for 24 hours or whatever, like these big crazy things or a bodybuilding show, or just something that's gonna set your tone for the year, but something to train for.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:50

I like it.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:52

Yeah. So like this year, um, you know, trying this bodybuilding show, and then we were talking about doing a Spartan race in in August or something here in Boise. And but those kind of things are just like if I don't have those, like my confidence just goes down if I'm not doing something hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:09

Yeah, I know. I feel that too. You you definitely need that, and I think there's like the post-show blues for people when you know you don't have a show lined up or you don't have a plan after. So I feel that, but it was good, it definitely built my confidence, right? And then the posing part, oh my gosh, dude. The heels, you guys are lucky you don't have to wear heels, but walking in heels was a task for me, and then holding those poses for a long time, you're back, you know, and just we could do hard things, and you don't want to stay stagnant either.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:39

How'd your first show go?

SPEAKER_00 1:42:40

It went pretty good. So I did um there was one in Twin Falls, and my coach was like, This will be the warm-up show before the Boise one. Um, and so I did what my shows were in the fall, so I forget the names of them. I think the Twin Falls one was the showdown, and they don't really do that one anymore. And then the one in the fall is that muscle? No, what is the one in the fall?

SPEAKER_03 1:43:01

Is that the Idaho Cub?

SPEAKER_00 1:43:02

Maybe it's the Idaho Cub, yeah. So I did the warm-up show in Twin, and then a month later I did the Idaho Cub. I did pretty good. I placed um in both of them, so that was fun. And you know, the tanning experience was hilarious, man, coming out of their orange. Yeah. My kids, yeah, my youngest, like, mommy, why are you orange? It's fun. Trying to like not let them like spill anything on me. Right. But I did pretty good. It was exciting. And to see yourself like that ripped and like like, whoa, it's crazy. Yeah. For that one day. And then the next day you look even better because you've eaten.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:37

Yeah. What was your hardest part?

SPEAKER_00 1:43:40

Ooh, hardest part, probably cardio. I'm not a fan, but doing hard things. So I had never done stair stepper like that much before. So I was doing like 20 minutes every, what, three times a week. And then towards the end of prep, it was like, okay, we gotta take it up and not like 45 minutes a day. I'm like, oh, every day, but one step at a time, right? Which then reminds you like one day at a time. So now me and the stair stepper, cool. I haven't, you know, I'm not consistent with it now. I'm in my off season, but I know that when the time comes to do it again, I'll be ready. It's it's definitely like a discipline thing. So I'm waiting for the time to just be right, because I don't want to say it's a selfish sport. It kind of is though, right? And I was still able to balance like time with my kids and you know, time to focus on the sport. But at that time, I, you know, their dad was doing the every other weekend thing. So now I'm solo parenting, so it's it's all on me. Yeah, so I gotta make sure like rest is so important. I've created like a bedtime routine for they've had theirs, but I was so bad about my own. I'm like, why am I bad about this? Our body needs that to recover, especially when you're like throwing weights around.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:46

Right. Yeah. When you were working out and you started working out after your depression, did you start to have things come up from the past that like you never thought about? I know for me when I started working out, like things from my childhood would pop up that I just thought I'd like totally forgot about or whatever. But I talked to my stepmom at the time, and she was she's a psychologist. She's like, No, that's just like your neural pathways opening up once you start working out or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:13

Oh. I was like, oh, I didn't even Well, I remember like, you know, being angry about certain things, like whether it was like a court hearing that like didn't go the way I wanted to, or they said something about me that I didn't like that they said, but I'm like, okay, I guess you want to use that against me. Um, and so anger and like taking it out in the gym with anger, but yeah, some of the childhood stuff, like, why didn't I stand up for myself? Like being bullied was like, I don't know, I feel bad for kids today because at that time there was no social media, like I wasn't being blasted on the internet, like, oh, listen to this girl. She sounds like a man, her voice is so deep. Yeah, like, no. And then having people comment, like my 10-year-old's like, Mama, she's almost 10. I want a YouTube channel. I'm like, no, I'm afraid of online bullying. I'm like, no, and then I'm gonna beat people up, like what? Yeah, just like mama bear comes out. But yeah, I do remember some things coming up, like, why didn't I stand up for myself? And I'm like working out like all upset at like, you know, 12-year-old me. Right. Not defending myself. Like, I should have said that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:11

Oh, I hate those. I should have said that moment. So like you get done with an argument and you're driving home, you're like, gosh, that's such a good line.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:18

Yeah. And then let's see what else happened. Throughout bodybuilding, I uh I ended up taking like what do I like not even a detour, just like a different path in my career. So I, you know, cosmetology's been my thing doing hair, and I love doing hair. But one of my coworkers was like, she took a cosmetic tattooing class for eyebrows. She's like, you would be so good at this because a lot of the haircuts I enjoy doing are very blunt and precise and like like a blunt, sleek bob. You would think it's the easiest cut, but a straight line cutting on a round hair with things that move, dude. It's the hardest cut to like get down.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:55

Um, so she's like, with how insane you are with your sectioning and cutting with like these like you'd be so good at brows or like symmetry and all. So she talked me into it, ended up doing a brow class in Boise. Um, she wanted me to go to Utah, and I'm like, I can't leave the kids, I just wasn't ready. I'm like, they'll be there with her dad every other weekend, but I just I'm not ready. So took a class locally, and then which then led to like another class and then another class. And then I ended up uh with my mentor I have now doing scalp micropigmentation, and that's been so cool. I never would have imagined like my career taking that path. Yeah. But again, all these things that happen, and I almost feel like part of that was like, I need something new. Like I'm going through all this other crap. I need something new to like focus on or something new for me. Did you start out with just doing the eyebrows and then eyebrows and eyeliner? And then when um I did that, her husband actually, so it was the husband and wife that owned the salon I was at. She wanted to open a cosmetic tattoo shop, and she did. And uh, he was a barber, and I had my barber license too. And so, which I got that here in Idaho after, let's see, was it after I had Gabby and after losing my sister? My ex-husband's like, I was very depressed. He's like, I think you need to get out of the house. Maybe you should go to work. Like, you love, I do love what I do. So he's like, Maybe, you know, getting out, talking to people, your clients, that'll be good for you. So I was like, I don't want to go back to the old salon though, because I didn't want people bringing up my sister. I wanted to go somewhere new where they didn't know me, they didn't know about her. And with her passing in California, that was almost a blessing because people here knew nothing about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:28

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:29

So I was like, where can I go? And down the street from where we were living, there was a sport clips opening up. I'm like, cool. Like, I do so much women's hair. I'd be down to learn men's hair and learn how to use some clippers. Was working there for a bit and decided I want to get my barber license because you can't use a straight razor unless you have the barber license. Sport clips doesn't use straight razors ever, but I wanted it. And so I ended up going to barber school. And so her husband's like, come work with us, you know, when you're done with your sport clips. And they kept trying to get me to go work with them. He's like, I need another barber. These ladies do not know how to cut men's hair, and I'm getting really booked. So uh worked for them, did the brow stuff, worked at their tattoo shop. Well, unfortunately, they ended up going through a divorce and like businesses started closing. But I'm lucky that I found my mentor that I'm with now at his shop, and he's taught me a lot. And I've just grown like in my own, you know, style, running my own business and being my own boss. It's been interesting. I'm thankful though, because being a solo parent and having to like be there for school drop-off and pickup, and I make my own schedule and I love my people that sit in my chair. I'm able to actually, my logo has um Isaiah 61.3, which is the beauty from ashes scripture that he will bring beauty from ashes, joy after mourning. And I have a little heart in there. My sister loved hearts and a cross, and it's like a phoenix rising from the ashes, but it's like a female and she has curly hair, kind of like me. And so I do get clients that I mean, you could ask your barber too. They share a lot, right? Sometimes they joke that we're hair pist and like people will tell you everything. And so sitting in my chair doing that or cosmetic tattooing, even through like regular tattooing, like people will tell you so many things. And so I will ask, like, do you want me to pray for you? And so I could pray with them. I'll play worship music in the shop if I want. Like, I have a lot of freedom in what I get to do. So it's fun to be able to use my art and be creative and help other people again, like whatever it is. And I could share part of you know my story with them, which I never thought I'd be able to do it publicly. Right? You're ashamed, you have this guilt, and I think that's what the enemy wants. He wants us to keep it hidden. But when you bring it out to the light, like so much healing for yourself and other people.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:47

Yeah. Yeah, forgiveness is all for you. That's that's one thing I've had to learn too.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:52

It's like um someone told me about forgiveness, and I was like, well, do I need to go up to the person and tell them I forgive them? And like, no, it's not really for them.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:59

I mean, you can like if it's something that you feel is safe to do. Sometimes it's not safe to do that, right? Like either they're not in a good headspace or like physically it's not a safe thing for you to do. But I think writing a letter, I have a friend who would burn everything after after like our we'd write in our journals for the 12-step class, and it'd be a fat thing of all the work we did, all the traumas we talked about, or forgiveness, amends we have to go make, like we have to go apologize to someone. And after she'd just have a bonfire and like light it and let it go. No evidence. I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:31

Yeah, no, that's true. When you became a business owner, then what was that like?

SPEAKER_00 1:51:35

Oh, scary. And I was like half and half. So it was like, first it was like, you know, working at sport clips and then going to my buddy's shop and like kind of half and half like my time. And then I was like, you know, I gotta leave sport clips. I can't do this anymore, and went full-time business owner, but that was before the tattooing. And then that was all hair. And then when I got into the tattoo, it was like, you know what? And and especially going through the divorce, like, you know, my ex-husband was, you know, he took care of the household and I stayed home. And if I did work, it was like a part-time job. But it's like, nope, now I'm responsible for this. And again, not having to miss things. My oldest, she's a dancer and she does the Mexican forglórico dance, and they dance a lot. Like, from practice just started March, they'll go to like November, December, their last performance. They do farmer's market. So, like, there are some times where I tell her, I'm like, okay, I can't make it that weekend, but I try to block out my schedule for my kids and their stuff. So I don't want to miss it. I feel like I look at the nine-year-old and then I look at the five year olds, and I'm like, wait, you were just here. How did and I tell them, actually, I'm like, you're not allowed to get any bigger, like, stop growing. It's not allowed. And mom, because the nine-year-old will be 10. She's like, I'm almost a double digit, I'm almost a teenager. I'm like, no, yeah, it's not allowed.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:46

I know sometimes I'll tell my wife, I'm like, just remember, we only have seven years left with our oldest.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:52

I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:53

Cause like I think it's important to like keep that in our minds because you they say that you only you spend 90% of the time with your kids by the time they turn 18, and 75% of your time is by the time they turn 12. Because I'm between 12 and 18. Yeah. And then you only have like 10% of your time left, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:12

Well, one guy broke it down for me. He's like, I started breaking it down in summers, and that kills me. He's like, I only have four summers. I'm like, oh, when you break it down like that, you're like, stop it.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:21

Yeah, because everybody tells you like it goes by quick, and then you become a parent, and you're like, holy shit. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:26

It does go by quick. It does, but you know what? Becoming a parent, I've learned so much about myself. Like, man, I did not think I was a patient person before having kids. I have learned to just right. And even the planning thing, like I told you earlier, I was so much of a planner, pretty rigid about it too. Like the worst person to probably go on a trip with because I'd like to look up all the restaurants and like all the places and like have an itinerary, like psycho, hello. Yeah. Um when we did that Nashville trip, he's like, okay, two days you get to plan, two days no planning. And that worked for us because the days that we didn't plan anything were so fun. Random places for lunch, random meeting random friends and people, and just you know, and now with kids, I can't plan anything. And God's kind of like, ha ha. Like you could try to plan all you want, but my plan's better. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:13

Make plans and God laughs. Yes, absolutely. I wanted to talk about that 11 thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:19

Oh, yeah, the 11-11.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:21

Yeah. So, how'd you get where that start popping up?

SPEAKER_00 1:54:24

Okay, so yeah, after my sister passed, I kept seeing it on the clock, on the microwave, on the stove, in my car, on my phone. I'm like, dude, that's crazy. I keep seeing 11-11 on addresses, 11-11 on my receipt, like the total. I'm like, that's crazy. Well, then when my nephew came out, um, I had told him about it. He's all, dude, you don't have you ever heard of angel numbers? And it's funny because his name's Angel, because my sister was obsessed with angels. Like, dude, if you went in her house, she had like the little cherub angels and like precious moments angels. She was obsessed with, so she named him Angel. He's like, Yeah, you've never heard of angel numbers? I'm like, no, what is this? So then he's sending me all, and like we're on YouTube. I'm like, holy smokes! Then there's 444 and all the other ones, but that one kept popping up, like, and it still does. Like, yeah, and a lot of the times for me, I'm like just taking it as a sign from her, like heart rocks too. Like, I'll find little things that are heart, like heart cloud in the sky. But the 1111 um has just been a thing. Like, even when I went to interview with my mentor for an apprenticeship, he sent me the address like 1111 Orchard. I'm like, what? That's crazy. Showed up and it was like such a chill interview meeting him and the team. And again, like receipts, I'm buying something. 1111. Yeah, it still pops up too. Like times when I'm thinking about her, I'm like praying. Sometimes I'll pray to her too, like, just give me a sign, or like I'll pray for her to come in my dreams or something, and then randomly I'm not paying attention, or it'll just be like 11.

SPEAKER_02 1:55:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:51

Yeah. You too.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:53

Yeah, it's crazy. It's uh it's funny because like when you're t when you were telling me on the podcast just now about like when your sister got murdered, I looked over at the clock and it was uh it was an hour and eleven minutes. Wow, it's crazy. But um, yeah, I just see like the double numbers everywhere, like 11s, 33s, 22s, like those just pop up wherever, and then yeah, the 11-11 on like the times, and and it's crazy. It all started like probably 2024, but it's just like too many of them started popping up, and I would just tell my wife, and then she'd be like, she'd start seeing stuff too. And then I don't know. I mean, maybe there's a part of it where I'm just starting to look for things now, but it would always be popping up. I'd wake up in the middle of night, look at my alarm clock, and it'd be like 1111 or like 22 or something, like it was crazy, but it would always be one of those times, and uh, and then yeah, I went down a rabbit hole too and started looking down.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:48

Like, what does this mean? And then you're like, Whoa, yeah, like numerology or whatever, you know. Well, then I was like, scripturally, what does this mean? Because then I want to know that side of it too. And I don't know, I'd have to look it up again because I've gone down all the different numbers because some I'll see people that have like a certain one, like, oh, what does that mean? The 444, 777, and it just goes down, and they'll have a reason too, like why, or that was like their baseball number or something, or it's a family number that their families had, and they were born on November 11th, or something like that, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:57:20

Yeah, it's interesting because like I was telling you, like, if you add up all the numbers of the dates that my kids are born, like I gotta think about now, five, six, those right there is eleven, and then you got twenty-five and thirty, and that's fifty-five together, and then you put all those together, and that's sixty-six. So it's like that was crazy, and then I just started adding up like dates, like the year I was born, is like adds up to twenty-two, and then yeah, crazy, crazy things, you know, and then like when my wife and I started dating, it was on 110, so that was like 11 added up right there, and then the significance of numbers, yeah. And I it was kind of interesting because one of the times when the only time I've ever had to deal with a suicide at the prison, I looked up and it was like right outside of door number 11. And I was like, this is crazy, and that was like my my sign right there. I was like, Alright, I'm on my way out, you know. Because that was like two months before I had left the prison. And I'd never experienced that in the other 10 years that I had worked there. That's wild. It was wild, but yeah, it was like when you said something about the 1111, I was like, Oh, that's my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:22

Yeah, and it's funny because I'll screen, I don't know, always shirt, but I usually do if I'm like, oh, and I'll screenshot it just for me. I probably have like a ton of screenshots of all these 1111s on my phone. Yeah, but I just take it as confirmation almost from her like I'm on the right track, I'm doing the right thing, or like she's with me. And uh, even the hearts thing, it's weird. Like um, my kids they notice hearts too, and I didn't tell them that that was like her favorite thing. Hearts, everything. My sister, insane. Even her dog, it's weird. He had like a heart shape, like his hair, the way it grew, was in like a heart shape. Oh, really? Yeah, which is crazy. Um, actually, our uncle has her dog now because he was there when everything happened, and the dog ended up getting hurt during it too, which is sad. Wow. Yeah, I know. They think that maybe possibly the dog was straight strangled during that because his eyes were so bloodshot and he was scared, like when the police officers got there. Yeah. Um, but the hearts, yeah, his hair grew in a heart shape, like the like a cowlic almost interesting. Her keychains, like everything had a heart on it. It's insane. And my little ones, they notice hearts like I forget what we were making, eggs or something, and somehow one of the it came out like a heart, just random things. I'm like, oh, that's from her, that's from her.

SPEAKER_03 1:59:32

That's awesome. Yeah, definitely in Guardian Angel.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:35

I do, she's beautiful, yeah. And I just think like, uh, we and it's it's wild though, because my sister had mentioned how she knew she would die young. And it's weird, like having these conversations, we're all gonna die, right? But she would talk about it. She had been to a lot of funerals for friends, and they're like, Oh wow, this person had a white casket. That's what I want when I die. I'm like, dude, you're crazy, or like, don't have carnations for me because those are grandma flowers. I want red roses because I'm gonna die young. And we're like, stop saying that. But she just knew, like, internally, um, before she passed, she was having situations where she thought she might have like uterine cancer or something. She kept having to go to the doctor. And so I think she thought that that's how she'd pass. And we did have a cousin who had passed um a couple years before my sister, too, of cancer. But I'm like, she basically planned her funeral for and told us what she wanted. We're like, dude, you're crazy. Yeah, but it is good to know, right? Like your person's wishes and what they would want.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:38

It's odd conversations to have, like when my dad would call me and was like, hey, just say no, I just updated the will.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:45

I'm like, I don't really care. Uh like I don't want to talk about this, you know. Not that I don't care, but it's like I don't want to like think about this.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:52

I know, but it's good to know because when it does happen, those are things that you don't want to think about, right? Like for us, going through the grief and shock of losing my sister, like we already knew, okay, white casket, which we, you know, my nephew, her one, her only son, you know, like you want to pick it out. And he wasn't, you know, he didn't want to be doing that either, but we knew what she wanted. She had talked to us about it. And then um, when me and my ex-husband had Zoe, someone we'd done the Dave Ramsey class and they talk about like life insurance. And then you start thinking, like, oh yeah, how do we? And I remember him just saying, I don't care, cremate me and throw me. I'm like, where? He's like, I don't know. I'm like, what? But then I started thinking, I'm like, wait, okay, I want a closed casket. He's like, You don't want anyone to see you? I'm like, no, because I remember like going to funerals and people like looking in. I'm like, I don't want people looking in at me. That's weird. Just close it or cremate me. I really don't care.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:38

And I had a client that uh he works at a funeral home. And I'm like, what's the most expensive way? Like most expensive funeral or burial you could do. He's like, well, you could be turned into a diamond, like your ashes. Oh, yeah. If you wanted to. He's like, that's pretty expensive. Or um the most expensive way, I think he said, was an underwater like burial uh like in Florida, I think. He said you'd have to scuba dive. Like, so my family would have to scuba dive to go visit me. I'm like, yes, I want to get like check out bougie or something. Yeah, but I'm like, a diamond would be cool, like, you know, cremate me and give my give each daughter a diamond. He's like, yeah, it's about 20,000 for each or something like that. I'm like, ding.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:18

Dang, yeah. I took the financial piece university too, and I remember that was one of the biggest arguments my wife and I got into was when they were talking about a will. Yeah. And like, if something happens to both of us at the same time, who gets the kids?

SPEAKER_00 2:02:32

Right. It's like, who would you leave them to?

SPEAKER_03 2:02:34

I was like, I think my parents should get it. She's like, I think my siblings should get hers, whatever. And I was like, no, and she's like, no, and I'm like, and we never agreed on it. And now, now, like, I think we've added this is after we stopped drinking and we've done a lot of a lot of uh maturity. Yeah. And we're like, we're even worse now because I don't even want my family to take my kids. And I don't want to kill. And she's like, I don't want my family to take our kids, and especially once we started like in our walk with faith. We're like, we don't want them crazy.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:02

I have friends that actually have close friends. They don't have neither of their family's getting their kids if something happens to both of them. They actually have close friends that will. Yeah. But luckily, I mean, one of their kids is already an adult and yeah, they're growing up. But still, those are it's crazy because again, if you don't have that written down, nobody knows what do we do now.

SPEAKER_03 2:03:21

Yeah, yeah, it's a really tough one to think about, even with us having like a special needs kid now.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:26

So then we're like even more. I was gonna ask, so how long have you been sober then, you and her?

SPEAKER_03 2:03:31

I stopped drinking in April 8th of 2023. Nice, and then she found out she was pregnant with our last child like January 20th of 2023, or somewhere in there. And so I think I think it was in the end of January, she stopped drinking in 2023, and then it was just weird because uh I didn't want to have any more kids after my third kid, and she won another one. You can't just have like three and a half. So I told her I was like, I'll give you this is like probably around January 1st ish of 2023. I was like, I'll give you till my birthday, which is in April, to get pregnant. If you don't get pregnant, then like you can never ask me again. And so I was like, you can get off your birth control, and then right, and then we went on a cruise down to Mexico, good old Mexico, and I don't know if we got too close to the equator, but she came back and then she said she was pregnant. I was like, I thought I planned this thing out perfectly too. I was like, it's gonna take her like a month for like the birth control to get out of her system, and then you know, like I will I should be fine. I'll just like I'll try and remember like ovulation areas, like I'm tracking it. I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna let her think that she won, but I'm gonna really like outsmart her, and then she's like, I'm pregnant. And I was like, damn, were you taking sugar pills or what?

SPEAKER_00 2:04:44

Like what she wanted it that bad, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:04:47

And then it was weird because like I was like, Well, my way of getting back at you is that I'm just gonna stop drinking, which is weird because she's not drinking anyway. Yeah, so I don't know why. I was like, I'm just gonna I'm not gonna drink a february. So then, which was hard going through a first Super Bowl and not drinking, and we had people over and they're like, You're not drinking? I'm like, no. So I had a few drinks in March, and then I got really drunk for my 30th birthday. Like, we rented some spots at Top Golf. I spent like three grand at Top Golf, like, but it was I was turning 30, my buddy was turning 30, so I had like two bays, he had one bae, so it wasn't too crazy, but I got really drunk there, and then I remember getting really drunk that night, and I had turned 30 the next day, so technically I was still 29, but I was I remember thinking to myself, like, I'm gonna leave this in my three or my twenties, like I don't want to continue. So I didn't drink on my birthday, and then I went to a kid's birthday party that Saturday on April 8th, and it was like a three-year-olds party or something, and I'm drinking, and then I I asked my brother that was going through AA or whatever, like to drive me home, like a recovering alcoholic to drive me home, and it's just kind of messed up.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:53

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:54

And I was just like, All right, I'm done. And I was like cold turkey from that day. I was just I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:59

Yeah, the older you get, the harder the hangovers hit.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:02

Yeah, yeah, you lose like the day of the next day, and possibly this the third day. Yep. So it's like three days gone, and then I was, you know, I I gave that up, and then that's when I decided, well, okay, I what else can I do? And then that's when I started going to the gym and then and then started reading books. I was already reading books at that point, but I was just like, all right, let's change up, like leave that all that child stuff in your in your 20s.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:27

You know what's interesting? A lot of addicts they switch to the gym. I know a lot of people, and there's a guy I follow, uh, the sober bodybuilder.

SPEAKER_01 2:06:36

Yeah, he's out of Utah.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:37

Yeah, yeah. And it's just so cool to see how many, even at bodybuilding competitions, so many people like, yeah, I'm in recovery. How many years do you have clean and sober? And I'll have, let's see, March 22nd. So I'm a few days away from my eight years. Wow. Which is like, dude, I don't ever want to go back. Like, I don't. I speaking sober-minded, like waking up with a clear head and my energy. I value my sleep. Yeah, like I just couldn't even imagine.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:02

I think the bigger thing for me was just passing off generational stuff. You know, I just could see where I was going. I could see like I was overeating a lot, my kids were starting to like show the signs of g gaining weight, and they can't go grocery shopping. Like, I'm the one providing all this for them, and then they're not like active, and I'm the one that's not active, and and then you know, just drinking and all this other stuff. And I just see myself going down the bad route, and I was like, I can't pass this off, and then all of I didn't even like touch my generational or my like childhood trauma. Like that was still just swept under the rug at that point, and um, so then when I had hired a mentor that summer in 23, and that just really pushed it all over the edge for me, you know. Man, and uh but I was just like that's the biggest thing for me is just that generational curse. Like they think they get passed down so much. I know, like I remember hearing from my stepmom that abused me, like that her mom had was really physical with her and would make her go out to the tree and pick a switch, and if it wasn't big enough to get beat with, then she would go get even bigger one or something right that. So I'm like, I'm just thinking about this, and that helped me with my forgiveness of my stepmom was like she just is passing down what she knew.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:15

Yeah, they like they didn't know what they didn't know, like that's all they knew, right? So they did the best they can with what they knew. But now that you know, yeah, you know better.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:24

I mean, I know she knew what she was doing was wrong because she definitely hid it from everybody. Oh, yeah. But still, like somewhere deep down, it was taught to her.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:32

It wasn't like something that she was that was a learned behavior for her, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:36

And um, after my episode f on the wild the uh the wild chaos came out, I actually had one of her family members reach out to me and said that she had gone through some somewhat similar of a thing with um someone in the family member, not directly my stepmom, but it'd been passed down. So I'm like Yep. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:01

Do your kids ask to go to the gym with you?

SPEAKER_03 2:09:04

Um they've asked a couple times, but I told them we can't we can do stuff here or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:08

But my girls want to go. They're like, well, because when so 3D is like my home gym, but when I do have them and have to have like child care, we go to Idaho Fitness Factory. So they're in the room and they could see through like the window and they want to come out like when and my oldest one's like, how old do I have to be? And so in the women's locker room, there's a sign by the song it says something about children ages 12 to 15 need to have an adult in the song. She's like, You could be 12. So she's she wants to work, which I love. I'm like, Yeah, I'll teach you. I'll teach you what to do. Like, I think it'll be cool to be able to work out with my kids.

SPEAKER_03 2:09:36

Yeah, we've gone on like um hikes and stuff together, you know, go to camels back, and then camel's back has like that little bodyweight workout area that you can do.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:44

Yeah, the bodybuilding.com. We've we did that the other day, actually. We're at the green belt at what is that? Uh Ann Morrison, right? Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but back there they have another kind of by the green belt by the river, and the girls were like trying, and they're so short that really the machines aren't for them. And I was like, go for it, try it out.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:04

Well, I think it's cool because um I like I tell my clients too, include your kids. Like, you don't have to take them to the gym necessarily, but like if you want to, you know, do some body ups or what like just shoulder presses with your kids or something, like include them, get them a little small kettlebell that they can join with you, like make it just make it fun, make it a game so it's not like you're just a boot camp instructor, right? But make it fun and do like some races or whatever, and then gradually we can you know get more into the bodybuilding or or strength training because I have three girls, I don't want them to think that they can't go to the gym because they're gonna get all big and muscly, because that's I wish it was that easy. You can attest to that, right? It's not like you're just gonna go and lift a couple weights and now you're just gonna be like, what's that one chick from Napoleon Dynamite, you know? Where which one? It was like the the karate guy's wife, where she's like all just huge.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:02

I don't remember his name.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:04

Oh, her name's Darla. Like, because he's like, You think I'm afraid because I go home to Darla every night? Forget about it. Oh my gosh, yeah. But yeah, so that's what I talked to a lot of women, and they're like, No, I just I just don't want to get all big and bulky. I'm like, I wish it was that easy. Seriously, I do. Yeah, like I I've been I was eating like 4,000 calories, you know, pre 12 weeks or whatever, you know, just trying to put on some size and then we can cut. But I'm like, and I'd still only maybe gained a couple pounds of muscle, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:34

No, it's so hard. It's not as easy as they think. It's like, no, hit the weights because you'll love it. Because a lot of them say they want to be toned, but it's like that means add some muscle to it.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:42

Yeah, you can't you can't spot train fat.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:44

You can't just be like, oh, I'm just gonna do four, and I could just get it was that easy. No, we went to Shield's the other night, and Gabby's seen the little one pounders, and she's like, they're both wanting to get in this. I'm like, I should just get her some little ones and have her do it. She just started boxing, so Which is fun. It's really fun to watch her. It's her thing for sure. And the older one's like, she wants to do everything. I'm okay with it. I'm like, I think they should try it until you figure out what your thing is. But my little one has been like nervous to do anything. I'm like, Do you want to dance with your sister? She tried it, didn't like it. I'm like, okay. Do you want to do T-ball? Which I was excited because softball was my sport. Nope. She didn't want anyone watching her. Like, it was fine doing drills. As soon as she had to go up to bat and like be alone, and people were watching, like, I don't want them looking at me and like runs off. I'm like, oh no. But yeah, she's like, I think I want to do fighting. I'm like, oh, karate. And I'm like showing her, she's like, no. And she's like showing me punching. I'm like, oh, boxing. She's like, yeah. Yeah. Like, all right, let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:40

I'm trying to get my girls in a jujitsu.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:42

Oh, that'd be good. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:12:44

So what's next for you?

SPEAKER_00 2:12:46

Ooh, what is next for me? Well, still in the gym. I would love to do another show. I mean, I still have that itch to like get on stage and I want to see what, like, what have I been working on these past years, you know, with growing and have I built what the judges wanted? Um, still being a mom, that's my number one priority and putting my girls first, church, of course, work. Um, I love what I do, so I want to keep expanding that. Um, I'd eventually love to teach people how to do what I do as far as like the cosmetic tattooing goes. So possibly doing that. Um, and then I'd love to do something to honor my sister again. I don't know exactly what that looks like, but we'll see. I want to just help other women that are going through tough stuff. Because if I could do it, they could do it.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:39

Yeah. Yeah, you're you're so strong and resilience. Amazing. I love your story.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:45

Where's a good spot for people to follow you at?

SPEAKER_00 2:13:47

Um, Instagram, I'm pretty active on there. So the tattoo barber with underscores. Cool. Yeah. I'll put it on there for you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:55

I really appreciate you coming on here and telling a story. I know it was scary.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:00

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:01

Yeah. Um, and then I I hope to see you back on stage then. Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah. I don't think I knew you when you were on stage, so I've just known you as in your off season.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:11

My off season, yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:14:13

All right, Vanessa. Well, thanks for being the 50th episode. And yeah, it was cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:18

Thank you.