Episode 59 | Luis Granados | Breaking Chains: From Lost Kid to Leading the Mission

In Episode 59 of the Rain Brings Growth Podcast, Matt sits down with Luis Granados for one of the most powerful stories yet.

Luis grew up in Idaho after his parents came from Mexico searching for opportunity. What started as a childhood surrounded by hard work, survival, and feeling like an outsider eventually pulled him into gang culture, street violence, fights, guns, and a life that nearly cost him everything.

In this episode, Luis opens up about being exposed to gangs at a young age, building a reputation through violence, getting shot at, losing friends, and eventually facing a life-changing criminal conspiracy charge after selling a gun that was later used in a bank robbery. At only 19 years old, Luis found himself sitting in jail with a $500,000 bond, facing the possibility of years in prison.

But this story is not just about the streets. It is about redemption, mentorship, second chances, and the power of one person showing up when everyone else has counted you out.

Luis shares how Breaking Chains Academy changed his life, how Steve Toronto became a father figure and mentor, and how Luis went from being a student in the program to becoming the Executive Director — now helping the same type of youth he once was.

This conversation dives into gang life in Nampa and Canyon County, juvenile justice, mentorship, fatherhood, breaking generational cycles, youth violence, community support, and what it really means to show up for kids who need someone in their corner.

Luis’ story is raw, emotional, intense, and full of hope. From almost losing his freedom to helping young people find theirs, this episode is a reminder that your past does not have to be your final chapter.

Watch Episode 59 now and subscribe to the Rain Brings Growth Podcast for more real stories of adversity, faith, mindset, redemption, and growth.

Topics discussed:
Luis Granados’ childhood in Idaho
Growing up Latino in rural Idaho
Gang culture in Nampa and Canyon County
Street violence and survival mindset
Selling the gun tied to a bank robbery
Facing criminal conspiracy charges
Jail, loneliness, and self-reflection
Breaking Chains Academy
Steve Toronto’s mentorship
Becoming Executive Director
Helping at-risk youth
Fatherhood and being present
Community support and second chances
Youth mentorship, GED programs, and hope after mistakes

Follow / Support:
Breaking Chains Academy: breakingchainsacademy.org
Rain Brings Growth Podcast: Available on YouTube and all major podcast platforms.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So I run out the house and when I'm running out I'm like, hey, my girl's in trouble. My girl's in trouble. And I start running down the street and I start running towards uh towards her house, the route I know she she probably took. Running down the street and I'm thinking I'm like shoot she got in a car accident or some arrivals saw her car, which I used to always be in and be stupid in and shot at it, ran her off the road or something, she's in trouble, she's in danger. Got in the car and they come in and they pick me up, they're like, get in, get in. As soon as we turn the left on Midland, um, there's a church there, and I just see her car off to the side surrounded by cop cars. So I jump out of the car and I start running towards towards the police officers. So I run up with my hands up and I'm like, hey, hey, uh, that's my girlfriend. Is she okay? Is she okay? As I got closer, I saw these dudes were fully suited, rifles, and that's when I'm like, oh shit. And they turn around, they see me, and they just start telling me, get the fuck on the ground.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Dude, thanks for coming back. Um, we had a little hiccup, but you know what? We're gonna do it again, and things happen for a reason. We got a cool dude here with us now, so he gets to see it. It was just a practice run. Just a practice run.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

I appreciate you, bro. Thanks for having me back. Uh, I'm excited to do it a second time, bro. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Yeah, you have a really cool live, so I'd love to hear it a second time. And uh let's just kick it back from the top. Where are you from?

SPEAKER_00 1:32

So I was born in Grangeville, Idaho. Now, the only reason I was born in Grangeville is because where my parents lived, which was Whitebird, Idaho, uh didn't have a hospital back then. And so this was 88. Uh parents went to the town over. I was born in Grangeville. Uh, we were there in Whitebird um for about seven years and then came to Nampa uh, and I believe it was 1994, and I was about seven years old. Um, and then yucked, uh raised here, raised here in Nampa. And your parents were doing what again? So my parents came from Mexico, and the reason they went up there to Whitebird was they were my dad uh was for a job opportunity. Uh my dad was ranching up there. Um and so that's what my parents were doing. Uh, we had other family members up there, and um they were just working. It was uh, you know, uh work opportunity, and so they were doing that, and uh they moved to Nampa for opportunity for us, for the kids, right? And so that's why why they uh came on over to Nampa.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

And then um you guys were saying that you were the only Latino family in the area pretty much, so that was kind of like a you guys felt like outsiders didn't really Yes, and so we did have other family members up there, uh, but it was just very limited.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

I mean, they had one school, and if I remember correctly, that school had like kindergarten to I think it was either eighth or even like a high school. Um it had only a couple classrooms. And one of the things that does stick out is that uh when when we when me and my brother were in school there, um I remember the kids would call us names, and we didn't know exactly what those names were until we moved to Napa and realized that the names were racial slurs, you know. And so I think that on top of uh job opportunity um was what caused the move to come on over. Is my parents wanted to raise us here in Napa, um bigger, you know, Hispanic, Latino population and whatnot. And it was even that was a culture shock for me. Um being up there, being one of the only, you know, uh Hispanic families up there, and then coming here, I was like, oh, wait a minute, there's more of us, you know. Uh, which was it was nice. Uh at the same time, with that move coming on over, uh, have to admit that you know, my earliest memories are a type of gang activity and and culture. Uh something that stands out was um we were having a family get together, and and I was young and I was running around, and I remember coming around the corner and seeing my brother get jumped um by a handful of other kids, older kids, and it's about five five kids, and they're kind of kicking them around. And I sat there and I was in shock, not knowing exactly what was going on. And next thing you know, I see him get up, shaking hands, hugs, congratulating them. And what they were doing is jumping them into a gang. And now, when I say gang at that point, it was just a bunch of little knuckleheads, right? Nothing organized. I remember we had white bandanas for some reason, and we'd switch our names, uh, our name, or gang name every other week or whatnot. Um, but shortly after that, about two weeks later, I I was sitting there getting jumped in as well. And of course they were taking it easy on me or whatever, but um, that was my earliest, some of my earliest memories of Naple was already being exposed to the to that culture.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

You guys had never seen any of that up in like Grangeville or Whitebird or nothing like that, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Yeah, nothing like that. Um, but you know, as as we grew older, we found out why that was uh a need at the time, right? Sticking together um group of kids in the neighborhood. Uh we were we were up to, you know, we were carrying pocket knives, but we were just maybe spray painting here and there. And but one thing we would do is uh you know, we'd go over and fight the kids like in the trailer park over in the in the neighborhood over. So we were already getting a little like fights or whatnot, but it wasn't nothing crazy. Um but as we got older um and started getting exposed to the actual uh gang activity that was more organized here in in Canyon County, uh, we started getting involved in that.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Were you already kind of rebellious when you were in Grangeville? So when you moved to like this bigger city, then you finding those people was a little bit like you were more just attracted to that, or was it just something?

SPEAKER_00 5:18

We were we were not. I wasn't rebellious at all. I was a shy, quiet kid. Um but I quickly found out that you don't survive being the quiet shhy kid here, right? Um, so it was just being surrounded by older, tougher kids that showed me I was like, no, I got I'm gonna have to fight, right? Uh but again, it wasn't nothing too crazy, it was just like little kid fights or whatnot. But I was a really good student in school. Um I didn't get in any trouble. Um, it wasn't until we got older um that we started uh getting into trouble. Well, I started getting into trouble. Uh specifically, I want to say I was about 15, 16 years old, and that's when I really like really got into it. Um one of the memories that does stick out is uh there was this older guy in the neighborhood, and uh he was much older than I was. And um he saw me and he came up to me and I had just bought in a belt. You know, this was a colored belt with like an old English uh letter in the front, and it was a a nice belt that I I thought it was a nice belt back then. And uh the guy, the older guy told me, he's like, uh, let me get that belt from you. And I remember I was oh scared, you know, scared to death. And I remember saying no. He said, Let me get that belt while someone kick your ass. And um, yeah, I gave it to him. And I remember just the humiliation and the shame that came with that. And that stemmed from growing up and watching my parents always put their head down, always avoiding altercation, uh, no confrontation. And if people would road rage on them or somebody would say something to them and they would never respond, put their head down, or there would be times where even I would try to say something and they would hush me and yell at me, like don't say nothing, never you know, cause any problems. And that stemmed from them coming from Mexico and just being real humble, right? They're like, We're here to work, we're here to make a life for ourselves, we're not here to cause problems. And so seeing them constantly, you know, put their head down, and and then also just me holding that inside. Um I remember feeling that at that moment, and then after that, that uh situation with that that older guy, I remember calling my my cousin, and my cousin came over and um I just started crying in his arms, literally like a baby crying in his arms, and he's like, What's wrong? And I told him like this guy just like punked me out for my belt. I mean, I'm only 15 years old, so I'm already a teenager, and uh, but again, just that humiliation and that shame. And uh, I swore to him at that. I'm like, I'll I will never let anyone ever make me feel like that again. And I remember I I told myself, I promised myself I'd rather die or go to prison than ever make myself feel like that, let anyone do that to me ever again. And uh it was a promise that I held. And it it did, I have to say, it did, there was some growth in that, but at the same time, it did come with a lot of uh repercussions, right? A lot of trouble.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

So up until that point, you were pretty shy, you weren't really like you were still with the crowd, you were getting into some trouble, but you were just kind of in the back of the crowd being a kid.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Yeah, absolutely. Uh another big uh milestone situation there at that age was uh we were at Nappa High, and uh there was this older kid that was uh constantly just punking me out as well and picking on me, always trying to fight me. He he he thought he could kick my ass. And uh we were in the locker room one time after uh gym class, and he came up to me, got in my face, and you know, everybody kind of circles around us and and they're watching us, and uh this kid pushes me and I go flying. I'm a tiny kid. High school, freshman year, I'm probably five, shoot, five, four. I'm kidding, not probably one way 105, 110. I was a tiny kid. I go flying, fall on the ground, I get up, I'm scared to death, I'm trying to act like I'm not. Um I could feel my legs shaking, and then the the teacher comes in, the PE teacher uh coach comes in and he's like, hey, what's going on? Break it up. And I was like so relieved that I didn't have to fight this guy. Now my brother was there the whole time. My brother was watching it, and um, so I'm so relieved that the the coach came in. Uh everybody, you know, went their ways, and I'm walking out with my brother. And I remember trying to play it off, like, oh, that was funny, huh? And my brother just looking at me and uh saying, nah, man. He's like, You made us look like like bitches, and just walked away from me. And that hurt me so bad, you know. Of course, I know my brother, we've we've talked about that uh um you know later on in life. And my brother, you know, he's told me I apologize, man. I was like, but no, that's what we had to do back then. There was a certain standard and a certain way we had to act. Um, but I remember that night, uh going home, and I kid you not, no sleep. Stayed up all night doing push-ups, shadow boxing. I'm like, I'm gonna fight this dude. Tomorrow I'm gonna fight this guy. And sure enough, I had last period with them the next day and all day, man. I I could not pay attention in class, uh, couldn't even eat, didn't eat nothing for lunch. And last period came and and uh there we were, and he saw me and he said, uh, let's again kind of right back to that banter. He said, let's let's go fight. And this time I was like, let's do it. And there was a look of uh, you know, of kind of he was shocked. And uh he's like, yo, okay, uh, we'll go to the bathroom and we'll fight after class. I said, All right, let's do it, man. I sat there, I tied my shoes as tight as they would go, and he told me, he's like, let's go um you get one guy, and I'll bring one guy and then we'll fight. I said, Okay. Um, so I was going around looking for a homie uh that we called Slick and I couldn't find him. He was like a tougher guy, and but I ran into my brother and I said, Hey, I'm gonna go fight him right now. And brother's like, for real? I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna go fight him. So we went up to the bathroom and we fought. And we sat, we didn't know what we were doing, man. We were just swimming, hitting more air than anything, um, you know, punching each other here and there, but nothing crazy. It was just a weak ass fight. And uh after it was over, I remember well, I remember mid fight realizing that I wasn't because I thought he was gonna kick my ass. He was an older guy, and I remember mid-fight realizing he wasn't kicking my ass. And I'm like, wait a minute. So I'm just like trying even harder, and we're sitting there just going back and forth, and finally the the fight gets broken up and we're looking at each other, and I remember seeing him. There was a certain look in his eyes, you know, a certain look on his face of like, I wouldn't say defeat, but like, oh wow. And we were looking at each other, and I saw that, and I'm like, oh, okay, I got him, I got him. Like he's worried. There was a look of worry on his face, and I can't remember who it was. They're like, shake, shake hands, shake hands. And we did, we shook hands. I uh I took off from the bathroom and got stopped right away by security, and I got ended up getting expelled. But that was the first little kind of glimpse of like I'd gotten in fights as a kid, and we were like little kid fights, right? So nothing too crazy, a couple punches, somebody cries, takes off, and things like that. But now as high as a teenager in high school, being older, I remember realizing I'm like, that's not a big deal. I can do that. That's easy. I I could take a couple punches. I that's nothing. And so after that, I was like, oh no, I I can definitely do this. Um, and so what I started doing after that was just fighting a lot. It was a lot of fighting. And another thing was like, I have a little sister and an older brother, but I remember thinking, like, I'm gonna build a name for myself and build a reputation so that my little sister never has to get in a fist fight in her life. Like, I'm gonna build a name for our family or at least my siblings where nobody can touch them, right? And so that was my goal because I know what feeling unsafe felt like, and I know what being scared felt like. I it was my whole childhood uh up to that point. And so, like, I'm gonna do that. If I can do anything, it's gonna make sure that my sister feels safe, that my brother feels safe, and that harm doesn't come their way. And if it does, I'll take care of it, right? So I'd really try to step up and be that person for my siblings. And again, just I mean, I kid you not, and I'm not over-exaggerating, when there was a point in my life um where I was fighting every week, and I remember one week specifically getting in three fist fights in one week. Because I was just, I'm gonna like the reputation I wanted to build was if you mess, they would call me Weasel. If you mess with Weasel, he's gonna punch you. And it and I wasn't this badass kicking ass left and right, no, no, they were just fights, right? So I would get my ass kicked or it would be a fair fight or whatnot. But I just wanted people to know there's gonna be a repercussion if you mess with him or his family. And so it was a lot of fist fights, it was a lot of uh um late nights going and breaking people, people's windows into their cars, popping tires, uh breaking house windows. Uh, I was making a point of like, I don't even care if you find out it was me. I want you to find out it was me to let you know that you're not gonna mess with me or my family. Uh so that's kind of the the path I took there in high school. Was he more proud of you after you got into that fight in that high school? He was. Um, and one thing that I know I to this day that hurts his heart is he saw that I kind of surpassed him in that lifestyle, right? That I I I went, okay, no, like this is this is if this is gonna be me, I'm gonna do it 100%. And we've had these conversations now as adults where he's like, man, I'm so sorry because I feel like he tells me, I feel like it's my fault that you know you ended up going the path you did. And to a certain degree, but again, he was just trying to teach me the tools I needed to survive in in the lifestyles we were living, right? Um, so I see that it hurts his heart uh that I kind of took it further or whatnot. Um, but I at that time I did see that he was like, Oh yeah, no, that's my brother. Like, that's my brother, you know. So but I kind of in a sense became the bigger brother in in that I was taking care of business if I had to, if anybody would mess with them or my family.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Did he turn away from that life quicker than you did then?

SPEAKER_00 13:50

He did. He ended up work getting a full-time job. Um, I remember he started working at ATT and he was probably 18. And he was making, I know, 18-year-old back then, he was making, I think he was making like 40,000 a year. But I mean, this is an 18-year-old who still lives with his parents, making 40,000 a year, you know. So he's just working all the time. And so then he's buying, he's buying cars, he's wearing nice clothes. He's a big reason of why I dress the way I do uh that you know today. Um, because I always see him dressed up and I'm like, oh, I want that's so nice. Like I want to be able to dress like that. Um, so he did. He he started uh just working, you know, working his butt off or whatnot. And I was just out and about.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Um It sounds like you said that was what your parents were doing too. They were always working six, seven days a week, right? So like they didn't really know that you were in that life. And once it was to the point where they did find out you were old enough that it didn't really matter, you were already too far in.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Yeah, absolutely. It was so one, it's just two completely different cultures. They're from Mexico, right? And then they come here, um, they're naive to the gang stuff or whatnot, um, but just working nonstop. I remember as a as a kid uh waking up in the mornings and they'd be gone for work. And then I get home from school, we'd eat, we'd go out, we'd play, come back in, and then it's time for bed, and then but they'd be uh just getting home from work. And that was five, six, sometimes even seven days a week. And so it wasn't uh a lack of support in the sense of like I always had a roof over my head, I always had food, it wasn't the best food. Um it was just a lack of their presence in my life, right? But that's what they have to do and had to do to build that foundation that I now stand on and my kids stand on. So now that I'm older, I get to see I'm like, oh, they were doing what they had to do to ensure that their grandkids, my daughter, has a beautiful life. I have a a better life than they did, but my my my kids have a way better life than they did, right? Um, and so now as an adult, I get to realize that that they were just doing with you know what they could with what they had at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Did they ever tell you about their childhood, what it was like and what they had to go through back in Mexico and why they wanted to get away?

SPEAKER_00 15:45

It was chaos. So one thing that's funny, like in the Mexican culture, like we we've we we value and cherish our grandparents, right? And it's just like this family thing where it's like that's your grandparents, like you you're proud of them. But as we got older and they would tell me how their parents treated them, I built resentment for my grandparents. Honestly. I mean, my dad's my dad's real dad died when my dad was about I can't think, I think it was like six or seven, right? And after that, uh mom, I believe she remarried with somebody else, and then my dad was just sleeping from couch to couch, you know, pretty much abandoned. Uh my mom as well, um, had both her parents, but a lot of just turmoil and chaos in the household, right? Um not a healthy environment and whatnot. And so they had it way worse, right? Um and to them also coming from that um, you know, from that background and coming over here, their mentality is just work. Like our job is just to work and and provide like roof, food, you know, that's what we have to do, and then you take it from there. Um it was that, but a lot of they didn't even have time to invest in me. You know, me and my brother. Uh my little sister a little different, she grew up, and they were now uh established where they could invest in her a little bit more. But I'm when I talk about it, when I'm saying investment, I don't mean money. I'm talking about like actually being there, being present in your life and and being a sh being able to show up for you, right? Um and when I remember, that is till this day, you know, but I kind of gauge it this way. Um I always say it's not about being a millionaire, it's about feeling like one. And so to me, success is the flexibility, right? I remember being a kid, being in elementary school, and I'd take the bus to school and I'd see these kids getting dropped off by their parents and getting picked up by their parents, or their parents would come and drop off cupcakes, and I'd be, I'm like, who are these people? Are they millionaires? How are they free and flexible enough to drop their kid off, to drop off cupcakes, to to pick their kids up, to, to put their kids in sport? Like I was judging success off that. Um, and I still do to this day, um, because I now I have that flexibility and I do feel like a millionaire. Um, not even close, but I I get to drop my daughter off every every morning at school. I get to show up to all her the parateacher conferences, I all her cheer, all her basketball.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

I get to do all that. Um Yeah, you started measuring wealth and time rather than currency.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Absolutely, absolutely. Um and so yeah, so that that I mean a combination of all that has really instilled like the values and priorities I have till this day is to ensure that I I do have that flexibility and freedom to be there and be present for my kids, which is something that um my parents did their best at. We're very limited uh on being able to do so. But when I look back and think about like what do I want to change and what stops with me, it's that I'm gonna be present and supportive of my kids, you know, and try to give them everything that I can, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

How do you do that while still having the parent role and not the friend role?

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Yeah, and I mean it's it's it's um the it's interesting, right? It's interesting because I had to tell my daughter, I'm like, Did you gotta remember that I'm your dad, um, not your best friend? And she took it a whole different way, right? She's like, oh, remember when you told me you're not my best friend? I'm like, you'll grow get older and realize what what I mean by that. You know, uh, I'm here to guide you, I'm here to support. Um uh but there is some boundaries there with that, right? There's there's gonna be some expectations um from me, healthy expectations uh from me, which is one thing that I don't think my parents had. Their expectations look different. Their expectations was like, I need to provide a roof and I need to provide uh food, right? My expectations for my daughter, I need to be smart enough to help her with their homework, right? I need to be active so I can be active with her. I need to look good. I want her to be proud of me. I need to be able to speak well, you know. I want I need to be a professional to give her that. So my expectations that I have on myself as a father are are way bigger than my expectations that I have for her. I'm like, do good at school, stay out of trouble. Pretty much it.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Well, also the example you said is what she's gonna look for in a in a husband. No, right as exactly, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

So um giving her that, right? Like, what does a healthy relationship look like, right? And and everybody has their ups and downs in their relationship, but that's a key one. Like, what when she comes over to because I uh me and her mom share custody, and she'll she comes over to my household, like I wanna be that. What does a healthy relationship look like? I always tell her, you know, you're you're gonna fight. It's just about learning how to fight. You know, what does you what does do your disagreements look like? There's nothing I can't say just talking that I have, you know, that I have to say yelling or whatnot. And so uh giving her those little um examples, right? Of of what a healthy relationship looks like, what a healthy household, what stability looks like, financial stability. Um, there's just huge, right? And it and you as a father, uh, I mean, those are heavy things that weigh on us, right? And that we carry with us. Um, and but I'm just she expresses herself. Um doing this work when I'm sharing my life with with the kids that I work with, it it takes a lot of my time um and energy, right? And when she was younger, she would tell me, she's like, You spend more time with them than you do with me, right? And I let her express that as much as it hurt. Um, and I don't know if it ever really goes away, right? Because just yesterday, I kid you're not picking her up from driver's ed, she told me that. She's like, Sometimes I feel like I can't tell you a lot of things because you're already stressed out from them. So, like, you're investing a lot of your time and energy in them that I don't want to take that away from you. Um, and she straight up told me, she's like, Sometimes I feel like I don't have a dad, you know? And maybe that's just coming from a place of frustration in that very moment, but she's she can rightfully so express herself. She can she's allowed to say that if that's what she feels, even in those five minutes, right? Now I disagree with it to a certain extent because who's paying for everything and who's picking you up and dropping you off? But again, then that's my parents' mentality, like, well, I'm just paying for everything, right? Um, and so but I always let her express herself, and I never want to take that away from her. I never want to shush her, shut her up because that's all I got growing up, right? I'm like, no, you get to express yourself, and if that's what you feel, even if it's just in five minutes, you get to say that to me. That's fine. And we can talk it through, which we always do. We have a really good relationship. Um doing this work, I haven't found the healthy balance of work and home life. I don't know if there is. I'm yet to find it. Because when I'm doing this work, uh this is not a 40 hour job. I think everything comes in seasons. Yeah, no, absolutely. Um but we're working with hundreds of kids, individual lives with individual needs, right? And so we're fully trying to invest. In their lives, each individually, um, it's tough. Like, when do you have time to one invest in yourself, but fully also invest in your kids? So what I try to do is just be fluid. You know, if the weekend does come and for whatever reason I'm not working, completely just invest in my daughters, right? Or or my partner. Um, and so it's it's tough. I'm yet to learn if there is a healthy balance. But I know there's a sacrifice you pay in doing this work, right? Uh we're not just uh passing out food boxes Monday to Friday. Not saying there's trying to downplay that, you know. Um, but it this goes way beyond that for me and all my staff. I see the way they show up every day, the way they share their lives with the kids and the kids share their life with them. It's a heavy investment. I just told my team yesterday I have I have two gals that are that are wonderful, just amazing people. Uh my development coordinator and then my program director. And I told them, hey, if you guys decide to have kids and you quit, I won't blame you. Like, because this is it's tough. You know, there is there is a price you pay in doing this work, but it comes with the territory. And I say that because I don't think anybody's doing what we're doing. To the point of investing so much into these kids that need it the most. I I don't and of course I'm gonna be biased. Now I'm a a product of the organization that I now run. Um, but like I don't, I, I, I don't see the same investment from others in the way we're doing it, right? And I think that's what makes us so good in what we do is we show up to the courtroom, not just graduation. Um, we show up to the probation meetings, we take them to the the the UAs and and we're with them when they fail and and and everything that comes with that. And so um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Yeah, I think those moments are a lot more important than the winnings. I agree. Because there's a lot of people there for you to say good job, but it's a very silent stadium when there's only just you clapping for yourself until you make it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

I I love to be with them when they fail, and I mean that in in the best pace, best way possible. That um that's when they need us the most. When you fail that test and now it's a long car ride home, or uh, you know, you're in the classroom and you just don't understand it and you're upset and there's tears in your eyes, like that's when we're gonna be with you for sure. Because, like you said, it's easy to show up to graduation, it's easy to applaud, but who's gonna be there and tell you, like, nah, bro, you're good. You're good. You know, it's okay to fail. And this is a safe place to fail. Because I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this. Is for me growing up, failure was shame, right? You're not good enough. Um, and that was just uh a way I was raised. I do think it did contribute something good though, right? Some high expectations, some grit, some work harder in me, right? But even as an adult, I find sometimes critique hard to hear because all that ever came with critique was shame and and uh you're not good enough, right? But to show these kids, I'm like, no, bro, you're you're good, you're fine. We're here. I tell them every day we're not going anywhere. We're gonna be here tomorrow morning. You know, we're we'll be here. You're fine. You you you get another shot, you're you'll be okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Yeah, it's kind of like that. I mean, your big brother called you on some stuff and you wanted to change it, might have he might have regretted it later, but it still made you who you are today, and you wanted to prove people wrong. And people, a lot of people, I'm sure, are betting against some of these kids that they're not gonna make it, and you guys are the ones that are saying no, you guys are gonna make it.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

No, yeah, we're saying no, you you're worth fighting for. Yeah, and you deserve the opportunity to succeed, and we're gonna be here. I've made enemies in the community because I I go 100% for my kids, and and I'm okay. And if I make enemies because I'm here really here for my kids, and they just want to say that, and then uh this kid, you know, fails or um you know does something and then they're like, oh no, we don't mess with that. I'm like, well, I do, that's my kid. You know, I'll I'll show up for these kids, um, I'll get in a fist fight for these kids. I've I kid you not, and and I'm not making this up. I I've stood in front of a gun for my kids. Um, and that's that's what we are, right? And I and and we are that because that's what they were for me. So you stood in front of a gun for a kid? Yeah, absolutely. So we were in this, we were in uh got myself in a situation where I I go in there. Um, so it was a local bar, and I go in there to get a drink. It's a Sunday. Um, I believe the game was on or something, and I and I went in there and I ended up running running into some of the uh guys I used to hang out with, right? So I'm like, oh, what's up, man? And I always acknowledge them, you know. I I I'm not in their world anymore, but I always acknowledge them if they still there's still some love there and and um shake their hands or whatnot. And we're sitting there, and then I look over and I see one of my uh past students walk in, right? Now he's a little older, and uh they see each other now. I know that this kid is from a rival gang, from these guys, and they know each other, and and right off the bat they just start staring at each other, right? So we're sitting there and I see the look of concern on both the faces. I'm trying to play it off. I'm like, oh, what's up, dude? And I'm thinking if I say what's up to this guy and I let them know, like, hey, this is one of my old students, that these guys will be like, oh, whatever, you know. Um, that's not what happened. They're sitting there just just dogging each other out. I go up to my student and he, I'm like, what's up, how are you? And he looks at me, he's like, Hey, these guys are gonna try to jump me. I'm like, I know. I'm like, get out of here, bro. Get out of here. He's like, All right, all right. So I'm sitting there, I see the these guys um get on their phone, and I'm like, they're calling people or texting people, they're gonna do something. And so I see uh, you know, the the past student, he was with this girl, and they slam their drinks and they get up. I'm like, okay, thank God. And I go up to him uh to say bye, and she's like, okay, what's up, man? I'll see you later, you know. Um then I hear this guy go, You guys have a problem? And I'm like, oh shit. So I told this dude to get out of there, and then next thing I he has to, I know he has he has to prove a point either to his girl or to himself or to them, like, I'm gonna say something. And then they stand up and they're like, Well, what's up? You know, this and that. I for a fact know they they they both have guns. I know for a fact. Nobody's moving these days without a gun, right? They start grabbing their waistline, this and that. I literally stand in between them, standing between them, like, no, chill out, bro, chill out. He's one of my old students, this and that. And they're grabbing their waistline. So it's not like they they pulled it out and they were pointing it, but they were they're grabbing at their waist, right? And I knew I knew for a fact at least one of them had a gun. Someone might have been pretending to try to bluff, but I know for a fact one of them had a gun. Um, and so they're kind of go back and forth, and I'm standing in between this, and then uh he finally walks out, you know, just talking shit or whatnot, um, and gets out of there, and I'm like, relieved, right? Um now when I think back on it, I'm like, damn, I have kids and shit. Right? But in that moment, I'm thinking of like, I just don't want no one to get hurt. I want, I want nobody, nobody to to get, you know, put in harm's way. Um, but that's what this this work does, right? He was one of my students. These are still individuals that I'm not in their world anymore, but these are still individuals that I know. Uh, I I think I was standing more in the way for my past student than I was for them, to be quite honest. Um, but I've been in situations like that, not always with guns, but um getting in the way of harm. You know, I I sometimes feel like I, if anybody's gonna get harmed, I'd want it to be me, right? Um, and I had a lot of uh these type of conversations with my development coordinator. Uh I've been doing this work going on 14 years now, and it's it's tough to say that in those years. I've I lost count of 15 kids passing away. We've had 15 kids uh pass away who have either been current students or who have graduates or who just went through our program briefly, right? And even more who have gotten incarcerated, uh, unfortunately. And it's something you never get used to, especially for the kids who get who who pass away. Uh but again, it comes with the territory, right? And I'd rather be there and be the one that feels something for this kid and know that he was really here than just read it on the paper and be like, oh, there is another one, right? Those are the kids I want to share my time and space with, right? The ones that don't have that huge support system or or the ones who are often pushed aside. Um, those are the kids I want to feel for, right? Even if it's hurt, right? They say that grief uh is the price you pay for love. And so if that's what comes with this, then I'll I will I will stand in that grief. I will stand in that and and know that this kid was somebody and this kid had dreams and and if and they were somebody in this in this world at one point and they meant a lot to me, right? Um and it does scare me to one day not be in this position and that I do read something and it's not a kid that I can feel something for, right? Whether it it is a kid that passed away or whether it's a mugshot, right? Um that was somebody's kid, somebody's sibling, somebody's loved one, right? And if there's only you know, only mom there to to feel grief, well, I'll be that other person that I'll to feel grief for this for this kid or this individual because this this was somebody's somebody's loved one, right? This was somebody special in this world. Um and like I said, I do have this weird fear of some day not being in this position where I don't get to feel something, some type of grief. Right. It's it's so amazing to feel again feel proud for these kids when they're successful, but that grief, that's also huge, right? They they are important and they they do deserve people there to feel that. It's just the price you pay for love.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Yeah, that's an incredible man. I I can't even imagine like the amount of maturity that you've had to go through just to be able to put your life on the line with everything you got going on for you and just love these kids. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Yeah, I I'm and I'll get into it in a little bit, but I'm a product of this, this organization. I'm a product of people investing in me, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Um and I And so what happened after you got expelled?

SPEAKER_00 31:11

So I got expelled, uh, ended up coming back to uh well, I got suspended, I went to Alpha One, right? Which used to be the expulsion school. Um I uh so I came back to school, tried the school thing out at that point when I now I'm getting in trouble. So now my brother drags me uh to a nonprofit at the time called OG's Bad. And um that that nonprofit was ran by Steve Toronto, he was the the executive director, right? And so they had an after kind of work work uh crew program where the kids after traditional school would um go off into the community and do little side jobs and whatnot and get paid. Now it was just to keep the kids busy uh after um after school, traditional school. So I got introduced to the program in Steve Toronto at that time. Um then I just dropped out of high school and uh I ended up uh going to OG's bad for my GD and my HSC. But it was Were you even going to school really at that point in time? I was, but not doing anything. Okay. So that I always get my mom would make fun of me because she's like, You're showing up, but you're not doing anything. And I'm like, Yeah, well, I'm worried about everything else. And you said you were a really good student then. So that had stopped probably around fifth grade. Oh, so that stopped uh earlier.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Once you had moved down here, it kind of stopped.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

No, so I was we were already here. Um, but around fifth grade is when I started stopped loop scene, uh, stopped having interest in in school. Okay, and I'm just growing older. Um, and so but yeah, so going back to I was now I'm involved in uh OG's bad and and we were hired on through the city uh to get the baseball fields ready for um baseball tournaments and baseball games here uh locally in Napa. And I remember it was a Saturday, and uh um we were out, they had the baseball fields out there by Snake River uh elementary, and um we were getting the fields ready. Now we were running behind, we had a bunch of fields to do, and we show up and we're late, and one of the coaches just starts talking crap to us, right? It's a crew of us, it's probably like four or five of us, and we're all like gang affiliated, and so we're staring at this guy like, well, beat this guy's ass. My brother, who was a supervisor at the time, was like, no, no, no, no, no, like chill out, chill out. So we're sitting there and I'm sitting there and I remember like working and starting to feel that shame and that embarrassment that I used to always feel, right? So I'm like heated, but at the same time, I my brother's the supervisor, this is a job they're paying us. And so I'm sitting there, and my brother calls Steve Toronto, again, who was the executive director at that time, and uh I hear Steve just well, I hear a car just like get into the parking lot, I look over, speeding, I see Steve jump out, and he runs straight up to that coach, gets in his face, and he goes, Don't you ever talk to my kids like that again? Don't you ever talk to my kids like that again. And that that sentence, those words, my kids. He didn't say those kids, he didn't say my workers, he said my kids. And I to be quite honest, that's one of the first times I can ever remember someone sticking up for me. And I remember just feeling something that I had never felt before. I remember telling him, I'll die for this guy. Like my loyalty to him that day was solidified. Like I will never let this guy down, which is something I carry to this day. But that made the biggest difference for me. So the way he showed up for me is the way that I want to show up for our kids. Um, they're my kids, and nobody's gonna fuck with them. And if they do, there there's a price you're gonna pay, you know. Um, not to sound all sinister and dark, but no, these are my kids, you know. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you proved that later on in life, stepping between two people with guns. Yeah, for sure. Um, so yeah, man, uh that's how I got involved in the in the organization that I now run. I ended up getting my GED at 17 and uh the program uh gave me employment, helped me find full-time employment. And I was still one foot in, one foot out of the gang stuff, and uh a huge milestone. Why were you one foot out? So because that was being productive. I was working full-time, but then I still was hanging out with the homies. I was still um you know running around. And at this point, it's fit-fist fights, it's being around shootings, it's about you know being around some some real violence, right? So you were just out because you were busy.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

It wasn't like you had nothing going on, like when you were in high school then.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Yeah, no, it was it was just busy with work, and but always any any free time we did have, we were at the homies trying to hang out. Gotcha. Um and just jumping and you know, and just it was so weird because back then it's like, yeah, no, like I'm gonna I'm gonna work, like because my parents taught me that work ethic. Like, I'm gonna work, but I'm still doing this. Like, I'm still you know doing this. So when I wasn't working, I was still hanging out with the homies and and and and getting into into havoc. And at that point, when we're older, now it's real. I mean, bullets are flying, people are getting stabbed, uh, all that, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Did you ever have to deal with anything like that close to you? Anybody that you had to like take to the hospital or anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 35:44

No, absolutely. Um, I seen my my buddy's uh guts, you know, pretty much coming out of his stomach because he got stabbed. Um I didn't take him to the hospital, but the little homie took him to the hospital. I ran that I was I used to live off East Florida Avenue, uh, used to be Mercy Medical Center, so it's just a couple blocks down. I remember running to the hospital when they told me he got stabbed and getting in there. And um I'm all worried, you know, I don't know where he's at. And I jump in there, I'm like, hey, hey, and some lady's like, what's going on? She sees them all frantic. And I'm like, hey, my homie just got stabbed. My homie just got stabbed. Is he okay? She's like, okay, sit down. And I was like, no, is my is my homie, is my homie okay? Did he walk? Did he get in here? He's like, Yeah, yeah, sit down, sit down. I'm like, but he is he okay? And she tells me, uh, sit down. No, she goes, I don't care if it's your homie. She said it like that, because I was saying homie, right? And then she's like, You need to sit down. I'm calling the police. But again, that shame, that embarrassment, you know, she she mocked me, right? So I just start laying into her, F you, you, F, there's anything you could think of, this and that, causing the biggest scene in there. She's like, I'm gonna call the cops. I said, Call the cops, I don't care. Uh then two of the goofiest securities come on over to try to kick me out, and they're just some goofballs, right? And so I'm mocking them. What are you guys gonna do? And you can I could tell they're scared, um, and they're pushing me out, or whatever. I get out, I see the the cop, uh, the cops at the light coming in too, and I see the cops, and of course I get scared, and then I take off front end or whatnot. Um, but yeah, he was, he was, he was, yeah. He, I mean, his guts were hanging out. The uh later when I ran into uh Napa Police Department, they're like, Oh, your friend's the one that got stabbed. This isn't that he's like you, his guts were hanging out, you know, and so that was that was scary. He was all he got stapled up, he was he was out of it, lost like 40, 50 pounds from it. Um he was in pretty bad shape, but uh he survived.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Do you feel like you ever got desensitized to those kind of things?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

No, and that's the truth because there was there was uh multiple situations that happened that I felt feared, I felt scared. Um and so I knew, and that that was a big big eye-opener because I'm like, no matter how many times like bullets are flying or something like that happens, like I feel scared. Like, no matter how many how much I want to say, like, I I don't want to live or I don't want to be here, or I'm such a gangster that I don't care if I go to prison or like or die, that situations like that would happen and I would feel scared. I'd be like, oh shit, and like I would try to get out of the situation, you know, and so instinctively I would try to survive somehow, right? Um, so I don't think I ever got desensitized um from those type of situations.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Yeah, that's that's I can't even imagine like some of those. I've seen some stuff in prison, but I can't even imagine it being on the street and it being somebody you know that's close. I mean, I've seen people that I don't know and I have to respond to those things, but to have that be your your brother or you know, just someone that you are acquainted with, like, and to know that that's their line and their life on the line, that's gotta be like a whole different level of just scared and realizing that could have been you. And did you ever have anything close that you got stabbed or anything like that? No, shot at.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

She's shot at for sure. And that's that's here in Nampa um handful of times as well. And and that's one thing I think of, right? Like people have to go like overseas, go to war to get shot at. Or we have police officers here, you know, who who protect us who who also get in the line of fire. But I wonder like who who gets it more, you know, because I have I can name off homie after homie who's been shot at or in a shootout. And I myself have been you know, shot at. And so uh that's happening here in our home. It's happening in Canyon County. Um it's it's scary. I've known, you know, I've had homies pass away. Um, I've had homies who are locked up doing life for for killing people. Um and so it's real out here, you know. I think one of the things we cannot do is is try to ignore it or say that it's not what it is, and it's real. I mean, we just see it. We just saw it last week. You know, kids in in the paper for killing someone, you know, we see it all the time. It's here. So my question to you would be, and I don't know how much your your world, I mean, I know you sa you saw it uh working at the prison, but do you feel like you're ever have been around like any gang activity or gang violence? Have you seen it? Have you come across it? Oh yeah out here? Oh, out here? Out here. No. Right. Because in my world, I feel like I'm around it nonstop. And I don't know if it's I just know what I'm looking at or if or what, but like in my world, I'm like, as soon as I step out the door and and and drive around, like it's it's it's everywhere. Like I see the individuals, I see this, I know where the the guys live at. I and it's because I come from that world, obviously, but um I I feel like it's just everywhere. And maybe I'm just so hyper vigilant and that I I'm just looking at all these things and taking it in. Um, but it's here, you know, and I think we need to address it and and and call it what it is, and it's it's definitely you know harming the community.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

The closest thing that I can recognize is like the prison tattoos or or the affiliation numbers or tat it's mainly just tattoos that I can recognize, but to be able to drive down the street or anywhere in like Caldwell, Nampa, anywhere like that, and to know that this is like a gang area, I've I would be oblivious, honestly. Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

And again, it's because I'm I'm surrounded by it every day, right? I have kids who are in my class who are on probation or whose lives have been impacted by gangs, so I'm hearing it all the time, I'm seeing it, so I know where I'm at, I know who's who. It's so it's a lot of that, obviously. Um, but yeah, I mean I feel like, and again, maybe it's just because um it's my world that I feel like I just it's in the paper, it's in the news, it's it's on social media, I just hear it and see it over and over again, and it's happening.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Yeah, I'm sure once you become aware of something, it's kind of like when you start looking for a car, you can see us start seeing everywhere, right? Like, so if you're not looking for that thing, then you probably won't be able to find it. Because I always wondered too, like when people get out of prison and they're like, it's so easy to go find drugs, and I'm like, well, I've just never even had anybody like you know the Dare class where they were always like, You're gonna be offered drugs all the time. And I'm like, I've never been offered free drugs, right? Right. Not free, yeah. Because they're that's what they told you in Dare, like people are gonna offer you free drugs, and I'm like, I have never been offered free drugs.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Right. No, for sure. No, it's everywhere, man. It's everywhere. It's so easy to get a gun, it's so easy to get drugs. It's it's it's it's easy for sure.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

So when when was it after you had graduated that things have started to really progress for you in the bad way?

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Um, so yeah, after yeah, it was from 16 to about I would say it's from 16 to 23 years old, is when I was really, really heavy in it. Now, what happened at 19 is the biggest milestone of my life. So at 19, I had met an individual who I met through at a party. It was kind of a house party. Um and I heard that this individual was affiliated as well. Um, and he was kind of hanging around. And I looked at him and I remember thinking, I'm like, Are you sure? Because this fool kind of looks goofy, you know. But I'm like, oh, what's up, dude? He was a nice guy. Uh we started talking, and he told me he was working um uh laying carpet. And I remember like, hey, is there any are you guys hiring? Like, I'm looking for another job, something full time. He's like, I'll let you know, I'll talk to my boss. I was like, okay. And then he tells me, he's like, I heard you uh you you might have some guns for sale. And I said, Yeah, I actually do. I have a 380. And he's like, All right, he's like, Are you selling it? I'm like, not really, but I will, you know. Now this 380, what had happened with it, is one one time I had it in my in my uh in my waist and I took off running and that it fell and it hit the ground and then the firing pin jammed, right? So it wasn't working, but I could like rig it to where it would shoot one bullet. But after that, it would jam right away, right? And I told him, I'm like, I have this gun, but the firing pin is messed up. Uh he's like, I don't care, man, it's cool, I'll hit you up. Um, okay, whatever. We exchanged numbers. A week later, he hits me up. I get a text message and it says, Hey, I got some work. I said, All right. He's like $6,000 each. I'm like, oh, okay. And I remember thinking, I'm like, oh, like like a side job, like laying carpet or something, because we were just talking about work. And he's like, Yeah, man, oh cool. We'll talk about it. I was like, All right, he's like, You got that gun for yourself, cool. So he comes over that day. Um, I saw the gun to him, I believe I sold it. It was like 120, 130 dollars. Gave him the gun, gave him a box of bullets. After I gave him the gun, um I remember him saying, like, hey, let's go, let's go put in some work. And I was like, What do you mean? He's like, well, let's let's go rob like a gas station, we'll rob a pawn shop, we'll do something. I was like, hell no, bro. I'm not gonna do that. I was like, you want to go like find some rivals, some opposition? I'm about that, but I'm not gonna go do all that. So he starts talking crap to me. And I start getting mad. Now I'm like thinking, I'm like, damn, I just sold him this gun and only fires one bullet, but he has the gun and I don't. So but I'm still talking crap, you know. And he's like, All right, whatever, bro, whatever. I'll text you later, this and that. He puts the gun um, you know, in his waist and he gets in the car. Now I remember when he showed up, something that caught my attention right away. He he had to be high off meth. But one thing that caught my attention was, you know, I hear people talk about when they meet an individual, how their eyes are just blacked out. And I remember his pupils might have just been because I remember that stood out to me. Look, I was looking at him in the eyes and I'm like, damn, um, what's up with this dude? But he was definitely high off meth, right? And so he takes off, and I even five minutes later, he texts me again. He's like, Come on, man. He told me, let your nut nuts hang. Uh let's go do this, let's go do that. And I was like, Hell no, bro. And he's like, I was like, bro, you can come back and we could talk about this, like we we can do that, you know, and like basically calling him on to like let's let's get in a fight or whatnot. And he's like, Oh, whatever, I'll text you tomorrow. At this point, I was like, I don't want nothing to do with this fool, he's an idiot. Um next day, man, wake up in the morning, get up to go to work. Um, I go on social media and I see his face blasted everywhere. It says suspected bank robbery, right? And it was him, and they were looking for him, right? So he this fool went and robbed a bank. Now, I find out all the details later on, a little bit later on, but these are the details. So this dude goes and robs a bank, it was the end of January. He robs the bank on a day where the local schools had a snow day. He goes in there, it sounds like he never pulled out the gun, but he went in there, demanded money, got eight thousand dollars, and then took off. Again, it's a snow day. The roads, this fool takes off doing like 15 miles per hour. Cops fight him right away, he tries to speed off, he crashes. I can't remember if it was into a car or into a pole, but he crashes. He takes off running. Now, when they get to the car, they see the gun, his wallet, and the cell phone. The only thing he took with him was, of course, the bag of money. So he takes off running. Now the cops get there and they see just footprints in the snow. So the cops just follow the footprints. They see these footprints go into a house. Now the cops think he's just gone that it's his house or someone's house that he knows, and he's in there barricading himself. So they surround the house. Hours later they go in, no one's in there. Well, this dude handed up, I believe it was just a random house with a door open. He ran in the front and just run out the back. And when the cops got in, he wasn't there. So this dude gets away, right? Now I'm laughing when this happens because I'm like, that's the idiot I sold the gun to. You know, and I tell my mom, I'm telling everybody joking around. I remember my mom's like, you're gonna get in trouble. And I'm like, no, I didn't even do anything. Like, I just sold him the gun, he but she's like, You're gonna get, I'm like, there's nothing they can do. Like, you know, I think not taking it too serious. Man, like a day later, um, two days later, I start getting text messages from weird numbers, like, hey dude, I need a ride, come pick me up. I'm dressed up as a girl, I'm stayed up in a motel, I'm trying to hide out, and I'm like, hell nah, I am not responding to any of this, you know. I'm like, heck no. So that goes on. He keeps trying to like I get start getting like random calls from weird numbers, and I'm not responding. I'm like, hell no. Um, a week passes by, it's it's Friday, and um I'm at work and I get a call. So I pick up and it's a call from the Ada County jail, and it's him, right? And he says his name, I accept it. I'm like, what's up? This dude's like, dude, it was easy, bro. Don't worry, bro. I'll be all right. Put some money on my books, everything will be cool, homie. Like, just hold it down. I'm gonna I'll hold it down in there. I'm gonna get tatted up this time when I'm in there because he had been in prison before. And and I'm just quiet because I'm like, what the fuck are you calling me for? And why are you acting all nonchalant? You know, and I'm like, all right, bro. He's like, it'll be easy, bro. I'll be out now like that. I'm like, all right, bro, cool. And I just hang up. Strange, dude's gone. Now this becomes a funny story I can tell at barbecue, right? I'm like, it's whatever's that night. We go to the homie's house, I'm with my girlfriend. We're uh we're chill, we're chilling, we're drinking, and it's getting a little late. The next morning, with the gun that I got from that gun, I was gonna take my girl to get her nails done. And so she's like, hey, I'm gonna go home, fall asleep, I'll pick you up in the morning, we'll get my nails done. I was like, all right, cool. So I get in the car with her. So she jumps in the driver's seat, I get in the passenger, but I just lean over, give her a hug, kiss, she takes off. I walk back into the house. Um, it has to be like 30 seconds later, my phone starts ringing. I pick it up, it's her. I'm like, what's up, babe? And I hear her just screaming. And I'm like, what's going on? I hear people yelling in the background. I said, What's what's going on? And then the phone hangs up. And so I get freaked out, and I'm like, well, she has to be just down the road. She just took off. So I run out the house and when I'm running out, I'm like, hey, my girl's in trouble, my girl's in trouble. And I start running down the street and I start running towards uh towards her house, the route I know she she probably took. Um running down the street, and I'm thinking, I'm like, shoot, she got in a car accident, or some of the people, some arrivals saw her car, which I used to always be in and be stupid in and shot at it, ran her off the road or something, she's in trouble, she's in danger. I'm running down uh Lone Star, headed towards uh Midland here in Ampa, and my cars are got in the car and they come in and they pick me up, they're like, get in, get in. As soon as we turn the left on Midland, um there's a church there, and I just see her car off to the side surrounded by cop cars. But her cars off to the side super weird, right? It's it's a weird angle. So I'm like, oh shit, she got in a wreck. So I jump out of the car and I start running towards towards the police officers. And I don't know, for whatever reason, I'm just like, I'm gonna put my hands up just in case. So I run up with my hands up and I'm like, hey, hey, uh, that's my girlfriend. Is she okay? Is she okay? As I got closer, I saw these dudes were fully suited, rifles, and that's when I'm like, oh shit. And they turn around, they see me, and they just start telling me, get the fuck on the ground. Get the fuck on the ground. And I'm in shock because I know I have like lights on me, everybody's turning around. I hear my homie take off in the car, cops chase them. I'm sitting there and then I just get taken down. I was in shock. I didn't know how to react. I don't know if I even could. I was I was just frozen. They uh knock me to the ground, they start handcuffing me. And um I'm like, what's going on? And then one of the uh police officers says, You're going to you're going to fucking jail. That's what's going on. Now, a detective, he was dressed like nice, so he and he found out he was a detective. He's like, No, no, no, no, you're okay, you're okay. We just need to talk to you. We just need to talk to you. And I'm okay, what's going on? So they lift me up, they're like, hey, uh, where's so-and-so? And they mention that individual's name. And I act stupid at first. I'm like, who? What? Like, who wears so-and-so? And then I'm like, he's in jail. He's in jail. I'm like, yeah, he's in Ada County. And they're kind of looking at each other. He walks away. I hear him make a phone call. Hey, uh, do you have a gentleman by the name of uh so-and-so?

unknown 50:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Hangs up, comes back, he's like, Yeah, he's in jail. And so they didn't even know he was in jail somehow. Come to find out, they were pinging my phone and they were following me. Because again, remember when he got in a crash, his phone was in there, uh, his wallet and um the gun. So they must have gone through the text messages and then saw the interaction, and then they start pinging my phone. So that's how they found me. Is that they were pinging, they saw the her my girlfriend's car take off, thinking I was with her, right? And then they they pursued her and pulled her over, but I wasn't in the car.

SPEAKER_01 51:20

Yeah, I was wondering how they figured out that you sold the gun to him, but yeah, the text messages.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

Okay, yeah. Um, because that's something they pulled out. So they're like, we just need to talk to you, man. Um, you know, would you want to come to the station and talk to us? If uh if not, we're gonna charge you with obstructing. So I'm like, what obstructing? I'm like, what? I'm like, okay, no, I'll talk to you. I'm like, I'm thinking again, I didn't do anything. I'm like, no, that dude's locked up. Like, you know, so I was thinking they were trying to find me to find him. They take me to the station and we're sitting there, and I'm just acting like a jackass the whole time. I'm trying to play it off, thinking I'm smarter than them. They're asking me questions, I'm laughing. Uh, next thing you know, they pull out a picture of the gun. Do you recognize this gun? I'm like, no, I don't I don't know what that is. They pull out the text messages. Now, on these text messages, the ones they pull out, it says, I have a job for 6,000. And me saying, Okay, cool, bro. So now these text messages look like something else. And I'm like, I start doing math in my head, I start like putting the pieces together. I'm like, wait a minute. What's going on here? After I don't know, it felt like four or five hours. Finally, what I say is, okay, yeah, I sold him the gun, but I didn't know what he was gonna do with it. Like, okay, well, is this the gun? I'm like, yeah, it's the gun. Okay, well, how much did you sell it for? It says right here on these text messages, it's like, well, yeah, no, that's how much I sold it for. Okay, cool. All right, um, we're gonna need you to stand up, um, put your hands behind your back, and you're going to jail tonight. I was like, alright. I'm like, I'm going to jail for selling a gun. Probably reported stolen or something. I'm like, what are you what are you my getting charged with? And they said, uh, criminal conspiracy. I had no idea what that was. I was like, alright. So they you know, not knowing the the degree of of of what it was, right? Uh they handcuffed me and they and they take me. Now that sentence. Yeah, I sold him the gun, but I didn't know what he was gonna do with it. Remember that sentence. They take me to jail, um booked me, mugshot, put me in a holding cell, and then my my journey being locked up began. Now I went to Canyon County, and then I got transferred over to Ada County because the crime took place in Meridian, so it was Ada County. And I didn't know how serious it was until I had court over in Ada County, and that's when they set my bail, uh, and it was a $500,000 bail, right? And they told me it was a felony. Um, and one of the things I remember before I had that court, uh, my cellmates were like, hey, do you want to learn how to play spades? And I was like, nah, bro, like I'm not gonna be here long, so I'm not even trying to mess with any of that. He's like, All right. I go to court, find out how serious it is. They say the life carries, I think it was the the charge carries five to life. I get back and I remember like, oh shit, no, I'm in trouble. And I remember they gave me like a sack lunch. I go back to my cell and I'm sitting there and like I took a bite of the sandwich, but I couldn't even chew it. I was so in shock. I'm like, oh, here we go. Here we go. Because I always knew like being locked up was a part of this life that I was living at the time. I didn't know it was gonna be straight up five to life, right? So I'm like, shit, it this just got real.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Was this your first time ever being locked up? Like overnight jail or anything?

SPEAKER_00 54:26

Well, I had gotten locked up on my 18th birthday. Um, I had just turned 18th, uh, 18, and uh, we ended up getting a huge fight, right? And the cops came in, came, arrested people. I remember somebody got stabbed, uh, and I ended up getting a minor and consumption ticket. So they took me to jail. My I was 18 for two hours, and so everybody was like, happy birthday and whatnot. But that had been only just an overnight, and then I got a book release, just got out the next morning. It was nothing crazy. So that had been only the only time. I was on juvenile probation, but never got locked up, never went to detention. Um, I got a SX15, I got a it was like concealed weapon charge, had a knife on me or something. So that so this is like the first real like locked-up experience, right? Um, so yeah, my journey. There you go, there we go. It's I realized how serious it is. I remember uh contacting my lawyer. Um probably at this point, I'm like two, three months in, and I remember it was uh a funny phone call. He's like, uh he's like, Yeah, man, definitely, definitely go gonna go out there, you know. You're you're gonna go do some some time. And they're offering a five plus ten, so a total of 15 years. They're not budging, like they they want you out there for sure for a five plus ten. And um he's like, at least you're being a man about it, you know. So I'm like, oh yeah, no, cool. Yeah, and I'm just like acting like whatever. So I get off the phone, I'm like, at least I'm being a man about it, bro. I didn't eat, I didn't sleep, I couldn't even take a shit for a week, bro. Because I was like, this is it.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

When you're a part of that life and that culture, are they do they tell you that if you go to jail for the gang or whatever, that they'll take care of you on the inside, so you don't need to be afraid of anything if you do get caught?

SPEAKER_00 55:51

Or well, it's funny because you get their version of things, right? So there's like a there's like a little system, and I can't speak too much on the prison stuff because I never made it out there, right? But there's like when you get here, this is what you have to do, right? So there's like an expectation. Like you get here, and everybody knows it. If you're affiliated with the gang I was affiliated with, like there's a certain way, as soon as you touch down over there, you have to do something to make sure to get you get uh put up in uh Max that you get segregated. There's a certain thing, like you, there's a certain way you you have to go about it, right? So there's expectations, which I like these get told to you as a teenager of like once you make it out there, this is what you have to do or whatnot. Um yeah, like get your letters or in your earn your letters, all that get them filled in, all that get filled in. Right. And so what what now what it was is that I was young, I was 19 years old. I knew if I went to prison, because they did a five plus ten, total 15, five fix. I have to do five if I would do good programeterminant. Yeah, exactly. But I know as a young gang member, if I go out there, I'm gonna do 15. There's expectations of me because I'm young and whom I'm I'm affiliated with that I'm gonna do 15. They you go out there and you have to ask them if you can try to parole out before you try to parole out. It's that, you know, and they'll tell you yes or no. So that's where I was at that point. I'm like, I'm done. Like 15, I'm doing 15 years, right? Um, so shit got real. Shit got real for sure. We started going through the court process. I was probably like six months in. I called my attorney. Now the other uh co-defendant, this was his third felony, right? So he was trying to fight it. Um I get a contact with my my lawyer, and he's like, hey, good news. They say he's taking it a trial, but if you're willing to testify against him, we could potentially let you out at your next court on uh felony probation. Bro, I'm not gonna lie, that even though like in that life I I knew you like you can you don't do that. Like this is the life you chose, and this is what you do, you just take it on the chin, right? Um, I was like, I don't know. And he's like, You don't know. I was like, he's like, don't say nothing, think about it, call me tomorrow. I was like, all right, so I did. I thought about it. I remember sitting there, I'm like, bro, I can get out. Like you go from 15 years to hearing, like, you can potentially get out if you testify in court against this guy. I call him the next day, I'm like, I can't, I can't, I can't do it. And he he literally tells me, suit yourself, and hangs up. I'm paying this guy to try to get me out, and you know, so he's like, Oh, all right, suit yourself. So then I'm like, no, let's go, let's let's do it. I can't do that, right? I can't do that, I can't take it to that degree. I I still was living in those, bro. You ask me now, shit, don't do anything around me. I'm gonna tell. You know what I'm saying? Like different values, right? This is my world now, it's not theirs. Back then, I was so stuck in that world, living, trying to live up to their standards and their expectations and and their values.

SPEAKER_01 58:34

And this is six months in the jail at this point, right? Six months. So, what was that time like for you while you were in jail? Because you were a fighter. Um you you know, you were just I'm sure that you had to have some confrontation in that time.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

Yeah, there was there was confrontation, but I I knew how to hold it down. Like being out here, I was I was a tough guy. So I went in there, but I knew I just mind my own. Like mind my own. Uh mind my own business. Don't, you know, don't get into this, don't get to get into the drama, try not to politic in there. Um, so I was, you know, just keeping my head up and and chin up, and and if anything did come my way, I would would handle it if I had to. Don't run up any debts, anything like that. I wouldn't, I didn't gamble. I saw all that drama happen happen around gambling, happening around the store, you know, commissary store happening, and I was like, I want no part of that. Like, I'm not gonna do any of that. Um, another thing was that out in Ada County, I was like the only with the gang I was affiliated with, I was like the only one over there. And it was a lot of the other guys, right? So my celllies were like white dudes, right? And and this is uh so Joe was just it being locked up was just a learning experience. So I was locked up with these white dudes. It's the first time I saw him like, wait, there's these white dudes out here um with like you know racial tattoos or whatnot, which is something I didn't see in Canyon County, but now I'm out there, my celly's one of them. He has this, you know, big old swastika and lightning bolts and this. Coolest dude ever. And so I befriend this guy. I'm eating lunch with this dude, sitting down, and this is still county, so this isn't prison politics, right? So I'm like sitting down, eating lunch with this dude. And the worry, the dudes I have to worry about isn't him with the swastika, it's the dudes that look just like me, just from a different affiliation. It's literally the guy that looks just like like me. I'm sure his family has gone through the same thing my family has gone through, same style of tattoos, just different affiliations. So here I am with these dude that people would, you know, he's hateful, he's racist, chatting with him, having lunch. He's got my back, he's a big old dude. They're deep in there. You know, I'm hanging out with him, them, and uh I'm worried about the guys that look just like me, right? Speaking with this dude, getting to know his life story, he's like, bro, I don't hate anybody. He's like, I went to prison at 17, I did 10 years, I had to do this. I don't hate anybody. And that was a good perspective for me to see, you know, what of the things that people have to do to survive. Sometimes it doesn't align with what you want to do, but you have to do it to survive, right? And so this dude's covered in tattoos, one of the nicest people I've ever met in my life.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

So it sounds like your time wasn't too bad then in A County, as far as like not having to put in work and things like that. Obviously, you were probably going through things with like your family, your girlfriend, things like that, right? So are gonna be hard and loneliness, but as far as like putting in work and things like that, you were you were okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:03

Yeah, no, absolutely. I was fine in that aspect. I was fine. It was the girlfriend piece, it was the family piece.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:09

Um did you have support from your family and and girlfriend while you were in there?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:13

So I did have support from my girlfriend uh for the first two, probably two, three months, and then she dipped, you know. That's I'm sure that story is you know gets told over and over from from everybody. Um, so she dipped, and then um my family came to visit me once, but I just couldn't do it. They came my my my mom came to visit me and my sister with my brother, and I just couldn't. I was like, I can't do it. I told him not don't come back. Like, don't come back, I can't do that. You know, it was just too too heartbreaking, too emotional for me. Seeing my little sister, because me and her were best friends growing up. Um, and then seeing her, and I'm just like seeing them, you know, on the other side of that glass, I'm like, I can't do this. So I told him, like, this is I feel like it's more damaging for me than it is like support. So I would call on the phone and have conversations, but I didn't want to see them. Um, the girlfriend thing, I mean, she was it was visits every week, letters every day, money every week, you know, for about three months, and uh, and then she just stopped, right? I'd call and like some dude picks up, you know, and I'm gonna sit in there like, F you, this and that, who are you? I'd call back, then she would pick up, like, I'm sorry, baby, you know, this and that. Who was that? Who was that? Cousin, hoping it was a cousin or something. But um, but bro, it was it was it was true heartbreak. I remember like visiting time would come, and she had already stopped visiting me for like a month, and I would stand by the door ready, hoping they would call my a name to visit, right? Just I don't know why I would do that to myself. I would just stand there knowing that they're not gonna call my name, but I'd get ready and I'm like, just in case. And I did that for for a couple months, bro. I would stand by the door hoping they'd call my name, and they never did, you know, and finally I was like, no, this is what it is. It taught me a lot about relationships. We were kids, bro. You know, I was at that point, I was really hateful for her. We were 19. We were kids, bro. We were trying to figure this out. She doesn't deserve just because I made a decision, she doesn't have to pay the price for that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:49

There's probably a lot of growth in that going through that as a lonely chapter and having to really do a lot of self-reflection.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:54

Yeah, it taught me that I I can take care of myself, right? Um, being a 19-year-old, yeah, legally I'm I'm 19 years old and and considered an adult, but I'm in there with 50, 60 year olds. Um as weird as it sounds, like the group showers, like being in there with other dudes, just butt ass naked, and it's just it it's like a type it it brought like a type of masculinity that I never had before of like, oh yeah, we're just men in here. We're just a bunch of men that are going through something similar, and it was weird, like uh a weird, like I don't know, just being on the same page as everyone, right? Because again, I'm in county, so I'm not like doing the gang politics in there. Um, it was such a learning experience for me that I could take care of myself, and that at the end of the day, bro, sometimes you just got yourself and your thoughts, right? Um, it was the first time ever that like the outside chaos could be on pause and I could really just think for myself, right? And I was running just scenarios through my head. Now, one of the scenarios I was running through my head was that sentence. Yeah, I sold him the gun, but I didn't know what he was gonna do with it. Because I know whether I get out or do you go to prison, that fucking sentence is gonna bite me in the ass. Because what that is called is dry snitching in that world. Even though I didn't even know this dude, that's dry snitching. Like as a gang member, one of their codes is like you don't say nothing. If you get jammed up, you go in there, you ask for a lawyer, and you don't say nothing, that's oversharing, right? Even though I didn't specifically like say names, show up to the courtroom, testify, point fingers, any of that, that little sentence there would be considered a dry snitch, right? So I knew that was gonna come around to bite me in the ass. So when I was in there, I was like, how am I gonna take care of this if I do go out to prison or if I do get out? Like, what are the next steps for me to to uh to navigate through that, right? Because I knew it was gonna come up eventually. Uh but I would run all sorts of scenarios in my head.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

And one thing I think we missed from last time was that you said you never actually got jumped in, you were just affiliated.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

So when I was younger, I got jumped into a little neighborhood gang, which was just a bunch of little knuckleheads. But as I got affiliated with that gang, I never got jumped into that gang, right? I got asked twice twice, maybe even three times. I always said no. And I don't know if that was just like this ego thing in me of like I don't answer to nobody, even though I was answering to them, but I was like, I never got jumped in. So I was just affiliated with them. But even affiliated, you go out there, man, and it's it's game over, you know, even if you're affiliated with them. But yes, correct. I wasn't jumped in into like the gang I was affiliated with. Um when I was younger, again, that little knucklehead, you know, we're little kids saying we're a gang and we were beating each other up. That was that. But um at this point, no, not not jumped into that gang.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:25

Yeah. So was that playing in your mind then, too, that like you were gonna have to do that if you went to prison and you're just starting to accept that since you're not gonna testify on your co-defendant, you're gonna get the full term because what was going through your head on all that then?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

Yeah, just bracing myself, preparing myself. Like, who's out there? You know, thinking about the homies that were out there. Okay, well, I need to befriend this person, I need to do this, this is why what am I gonna say? What if they ask me this? This is what I'm gonna say, well, this and that. Like, well, I'm gonna well if I run into that guy out there, my co defendant, I'll just beat his ass so that they see that I'm like the tougher dude, you know. So I'm running all these scenarios through my head, just bracing myself, really. Bracing myself at that point. I was bracing myself for going to the prison. I wasn't bracing myself for getting out quite yet. Right. So what happens is I meet with the pre-sentence investigator. Now this person comes, interviews you. She jumps into your life and starts doing research on your past employers and friends, and this is and sees what kind of person you were on the outs. And she gives the judge a recommendation on how you should be sentenced, right? So I walk into the visiting room, I see this lady sitting there and I sit down. And uh she's like, she looks at me and she gets kind of this weird look on her face and she says, uh, what are you doing here? And so I started going into my spiobo. I ended up selling a gun. Uh he robbed a bank. She's like, No, no, no, no, no. How old are you? And she's like looking at her paperwork, I'm like, I'm 19. She's like, You're a baby. What are you what are you doing here? And like the look on her face was like concern. And I remember feeling for the first time in a very long time that somebody viewed me as like somebody's kid, human. Um some sort of compassion there, right? And I just started crying. Right? We have this hour interview, she's writing notes, you know, I go back to my cell, and I'm just very emotional. Um, thinking, you know, I'm going to prison. Court comes up, and I I believe this was supposed to be my pre-sentence. I can't remember, but I court comes up and I I remember knowing that I was gonna be able to take a look at the recommendation. I remember it's the court where I get to take a peek at what she says. So I go to court, uh, my lawyer gives me the recommendation. I'm flipping through it, flipping through it. It's all these notes and everything, and I go to the very back page, and the recommendation said for me to get a year. So I was I was I was looking at a five plus ten and I remember they dropped it. They're like, okay, take a plea for a three plus seven. And they wouldn't budge from a three plus seven. My lawyer was like, we're gonna try to get a writer. We're trying to get a writer, which is that that program, right? Uh I think it's like six to a year programming or whatnot. And so, like, best case scenario, like we win the lottery, I'm getting a writer, but pretty set on I'm gonna get a three plus seven. And I saw that like a year, recommendation a year. Um, and it stated why, right? I had a base of education, I had work, work experience, and I had all these letters. So I had a strong support system from all the mentors from Breaking Chains Academy, which was OG's Bad back then. They sent a bunch of letters to the judge, and she went and interviewed people at OG's Bad, the mentors, and they had all these good recommendations for her support letters for me. And I'm sitting there and bro, and I'm just like, finally, like a little, a little light at the end of the tunnel, right? The smallest light, it was a little flicker of light, but it was something, it was hope, right? And I'm like, oh, my whole attitude changed. I swear I skipped back to the fucking cell, bro. Like, there was hope. That's what hope does, even though it's just this little light at the end of the tunnel, like that's what that does, right? When I felt hopeless and then they gave me that, I was like, oh shit, I'm gonna get out. I'm gonna get out. They pushed up my uh they pushed out my my next court date uh further out. I didn't even care because I'm like, it's good stuff, good stuff is coming. I go to court, I stood in in front of the judge, she looked at me, she stated, because you have a base of education, work experience, and a strong support system, I do believe you can become a productive member of this community. Boom, gave me a year, 10 years of supervision. At that point, I had been in six, seven months. So I'm chilling, bro. My whole attitude changed. I start signing up for all these classes in there. I started doing Bible study, whatever Bible study that came, I was doing Bible study. Uh, and I remember I started reading the Bible, and one of the things I remember thinking to myself, I'm like, when I get out, like God, when I get out, one of the the first place I'm gonna go is church. I'm gonna go to church. Okay. That's gonna be my thank you. Um finally the day came. I got out. My brother picks me up, my mom, and my brother's like, where do you want to go eat? I'll take you anywhere you want. Fanciest restaurant you want, I'll take you. And uh, I was like, bro, I just want some Pizza Hut and I want a Gatorade. He's like, No, no, no, I'll take you anywhere. I'm like, no, seriously, bro, just order a stuffed crust pepperoni pizza and get me a blue Gatorade, homie, and I'm chilling. And he's like, All right. Uh so we're coming back into town, and I'm like, go to OG's bad. Go there, go there. Uh we do stop there. I walk in. I'm wearing the clothes I got locked up in. So a year later, you know, it's all crusty, it stinks, it's nasty. I walk in, I see Steve Toronto, his wife, all the mentors. I run up and just fucking hug them. And, you know, I'm telling him thank you. Uh part of I I left out was when I was standing in the courtroom getting sentenced, I looked back to see who was there and I saw Steve standing there, right? And it just reminded me of when he showed up to those baseball fields and he stood up for us, and I look back and he's in that courtroom, right? And he's standing up for me there, you know, with letters and his support, his presence. And so I'm like, thank you so much for showing up. And you know, he's he's got watery eyes and we're hugging him. And and then I went home, right? I remember after that feeling guilty because I was like, shit, I made God a promise that I was gonna go to church as soon as I got out, and it ended up going to breaking chains. So it was something that I wrestled for a while until I got a little older and I realized that breaking chains, OG's bad, uh, was my church, right? It was hope. I knew that's where I was gonna find hope. And sure enough, they helped me start getting back on my feet. They helped me get employment, they helped me get into CWI. They were such a great support system, and I felt myself changing at that point, you know, of I got a second shot. Um, and so it was just a beautiful thing to have somewhere to go, right? Immediately after going through something like that, you know, again, just to find my hope and to find the people who were gonna be there to support me. Um, it was beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:09

How did Steve get into this whole thing?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:11

So if I remember correctly, Steve was super successful. Um, I think he was doing insurance or something, but he started doing a youth group uh at his church with at-risk youth, right? He started falling in love with that. And he's like, this is what I want to do. And if I remember correctly, at one point he became the director of the Boys and Girls Club. Now, Steve, what he wanted to do was target the highest risk kids, highest need kids. And the boys and girls club is that they target risk, you know, kids that are at risk. But Steve was thinking like gang members, thinking like foster care, kids on probation, you know, who are the highest risk uh at the highest level. And so we started paying attention to that, and then Steve stepped away from the boys and girls club and started his nonprofit. Yeah, and so we were at the Racket Club uh in front of West Middle School at one point. Then we moved into a small church on the north side of Napa, and then we moved to a big brick building, which is the Boise Rescue Mission. They own it now, um, right there off 16th Avenue. We were in there, and then Steve retired in 2016. Um, and we kept the mission going, rebranded, became Breaking Chains Academy. Um, I just saw Steve at graduation this past Friday. I didn't know he was gonna be there. Um, but it was just uh beautiful to see him and his wife showing up for the mission that he started. His I asked him one day, I said, What why did you start this? And he said, I wanted to create a place where kids could be productive, where they could run, where they can laugh, where they could smile, and they can be themselves and didn't have to worry about all that outside stuff. And so I try to stay true to that vision and to that mission till this day to create that space for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:40

You had to make that guy so proud.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:42

I hope so.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:43

Um to see you coming from like you know, a student to now the executive director and helping other students like a full circle moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:51

For sure. And he he I can't think of my life without him, you know. Um father figure, mentor, everything. I cannot picture my life without him. He made the biggest difference in my life. He's the reason that uh I'm where I'm at, you know, where I can why my daughter's in cheer, why I bought my my home, which I never thought I was gonna be a homeowner. I bought a home two years ago. I contributed to him, right? What came with him was his love, his support. Um, whether I was in the courtroom or at graduation. That's what got me here today. And when he hired me on, so he hired me on as staff um at Breaking Chains when I was 24 years old. This is 2013. I was working at a warehouse, making minimum wage, packing, packaging steer manure, chicken manure, uh for fertilizer, fertilizer reasons. And uh I remember I came in.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:38

You were at 24 there?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:39

I was 24 years old. And you got out of jail at what? Uh 20, 19, 19, 20, because I got locked up in the beginning of 19 and got out at the end. So 20.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:46

What was that three years like in between? Um just working. Were you still one foot in, one foot out?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:51

It was one foot in, one foot out, but more, more out, right? I just couldn't completely throw that last leg over, you know, over that little fence there. Um, I was changing. I was definitely changing, had a new mindset, but I still, you know, I got to a point where I was like, well, I'm not gonna wear the colors, but if somebody asks me what I am, I'm gonna say it. You know, so I got to that. And then at one point I'm like, well, I'm not gonna say it, but if somebody like hits me up, I'm gonna be about it. You know, so I was still doing that, like trying to navigate all through that. During that time when I got out, I was uh introduced to um a kid I had met uh before I got locked up, and uh, we'll call him Little Guy. Now, Little Guy lived on the same street as I did, and both of his parents had gone to prison, and um his siblings, his older brother and older sister had gone to prison. So we just took him in. And he was like staying at relatives, grandmas, uncles, aunts, cousins, but we pretty much took him in.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:42

He was like your family took him in.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:44

Yeah, he'd stay at the house. We'd feed him, we'd go out paintballing, we take him out skateboarding. He was like 12 years old at this time, right? And so little did I know, I was already kind of being a mentor before even being hired on to uh to you know the organization. Um, so we were just there for him, just really mentoring him or whatnot. And then finally, uh his you know, I think one of his parents got out of prison, and this he was with us for a good amount of years, two, three, maybe even four years, and then he finally went back to uh mom and dad. And and that did a lot for me to to have a little guy who I and at that point I had no kids, but I saw this this kid and I was like, I don't want him to do to do that. His head his family was really involved in that lifestyle, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:22

So you were already leading him away from even though you were doing it, you're telling him, man, you don't want a part of this life.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:27

Yeah, but when your whole family is involved in it, like it's gonna yank on him. That's all you know, yeah. So as soon as his I can't remember if it was his older uh sibling or his parent who got out, he got right back into that environment. And then I started hearing that he started being around it again. I just want to make him proud or something. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you you long for your mom and dad, you know, your their approval. Exactly. And so I heard that he started kind of hanging around. And I would see him, I would see him around and he'd be with those guys and and whatnot. But then I started working at uh at the organization as a mentor and a tutor, and that changed my life. Uh seeing these kids um, these kids who are often again pushed aside, overlook or demonized, come into a classroom and and sit there. And it was uh class was an hour back in those days, and it'd be chaos for 55 minutes, but for five minutes you see these kids quiet, just zoomed in on their on their studies, and I was like, I fell in love with that. I came in uh, you know, I got my GED, but as far as school, I was a straight up student. I came in in there and I was learning the curriculum with them, which I think what it did was it allowed me to learn how to teach it to them because we were learning it together, right? And so I got really good at at uh tutoring the GED curriculum. Um, and so I I just fell in love with teaching. And at one point I was like, I'm gonna be a teacher. Like that's what I want to do, I want to be able to teach, but for these specific uh kids, right? Um, and so yeah, my journey at breaking chains started. Um, 24 years old. Uh not fully like not, I was probably at that point, I was probably like 75% like that breaking chains, but I also was hanging on to for whatever reason this 25%, right? Which was a lot of like, I worked so hard to build this reputation. I almost lost my freedom for this. It was so hard to let it go because it was at one point so much of my identity, which I think some of these older guys struggle with this to this day. When this guy did 10 years for it, has been stabbed and shot. Yeah, it's no wonder they don't want to let it go. That's his identity, that's who he is. He's lost his life, you know, years of his life, almost lost his real life for that. So it's no wonder they don't want to let it go. So I think it was some of that, right? Now, um, right before I got hired on, so I'll take a few steps back. Right before I hired on, um I was still hanging out with you know that that old crowd, and and I remember going to a uh house party, and it was a small little gathering, but a house party. Um, and we were sitting there and we're sitting there and we're drinking, and one of the older guys comes in. And I remember this older guy when he had gotten out and I met him, I remember I was so proud because he's like, Hey, you're you're weasel, right? That's what they used to call me. And I was like, Yeah, he's like, Oh yeah, I've heard of you, man. I've heard of you. I remember feeling so proud of like this guy's approval who just did time and was like a big homie. And so I see him, I'm like, what's up, dude? And he was acting strange, he was a little quiet. I'm like, oh, that's strange. And I try to give him a beer and he's like, no, bro, I'm good. I'm good. So he wasn't drinking. Now me being hypervigilant, I'm like, okay, something's up. Something's up. Because this guy's not drinking, he's serious. So I was already buzzing. I started drinking a bunch of water because I'm like, something's gonna happen. And uh sure enough, maybe an hour in, uh, he's like, hey Weasel, let me talk to you. Let me talk to you in the back. I knew it, bro. I knew what was coming. I knew. I knew exactly what was coming. We go back there, and uh he's like, uh, so what's up with your uh co-defendant? I was like, what do you mean? He's like, where's he at? I'm like, prison. Because again, this that guy was like his third felony. And he's like, oh yeah, how come he's there and you're not? I don't know. I knew exactly where he was going with this, you know? He's like, Oh yeah, are you sure? I'm like, yeah. He's like, well, I heard otherwise. Like, oh yeah, what'd you hear? He's like, that you snitched. I knew that, bro. I knew the moment he asked me to step out and talk to me, that that was the conversation we were gonna have. And uh I was like, yeah, whatever's, bro. That's what you want to call it. He's like, yeah, yeah. And so he started getting really aggressive with me. And I was like intimidated because of his name, because of his reputation. And so I was, bro. I was like, oh shit. But what happened is I started noticing that the guys I was with weren't really doing anything, which I thought for sure they were like, all right, let's go, let's fuck this guy up. But they were just sitting there. Now, the reason for that is when I got out, when I found out that I was gonna get out, I was like, okay, I was bracing myself to handle this, come up, but in prison. But when I found out I was getting out, I started bracing myself to handle it when I got out. So the way I was gonna play chess was I'm gonna start befriending these dudes to the max. They'd get locked up, put money on their books, be around them, show them love, try to act crazy around them, punch dudes in front of like around them, like I want to continue that reputation so that these uh these dudes know that I'm about it, that I'm down. And so when this does come up, those dudes are gonna follow my side and be like, no, that dude's down, that's full solid, you know. Um, so when I was looking around and I saw myself with the the friend group I was with or the people I was hanging out with, they weren't like, they kind of they I didn't want to say they had my back, but they were more like, well, we're that's we're not gonna do anything. And I started noticing that, and then I started kind of acting like, wait a second, bro, like I'm looking at this dude and I'm like, I might be able to fuck this guy up. But then I'm thinking he probably got a gun, he got a knife, and we're going there and we're kind of like tripping back and forth, and uh I so then I start getting a little confident and I'm like, shit, bro, I've been in many fights, like I'm you know, I'm a little bigger, working out, like looking at this dude, and he notices it and he's like, Don't try to act brave. And I was like, I ain't trying to act brave, this is who I am, and he's like, All right, all right. And then he's like, Well, I fucking like you, bro, you know, but fucking this thing. And then when he said that, and I started seeing some hesitation, and he took a couple steps back from the situation. I was like, Oh, I think I got this, right? So I started getting coughing. I'm like, well, whatever's bro. I stood up, just kind of squared off a little bit, and we're sitting there, and he's like, Well, let me make a call. And he calls, he makes a phone call. And uh he gets on the phone, he starts talking to somebody, and I'm like, shit, who's he talking to? Anyways, this dude's like, get your ass over here right now and bring that shit with you. Bring that shit with you. Get your ass over here. We're over here at fucking homeboys house. This and again, and I'm sitting there, I'm like, what the who's he talking to? And bring what? You know, I'm like, fucking knife gun. What's this guy talking about? I'm like, shit. So I'm thinking, I'm like, who's gonna show up? So I go back into the kitchen, bro. I start chugging more water. I'm like, I'm gonna get it right now. Like, I'm thinking I'm gonna get jumped. Because these dudes are kind of like, well, we're not doing it. I'm like, he's hitting somebody up. They're gonna come and they're gonna beat my ass. So I'm gonna start running all these dudes. Like, who's who's gonna who's gonna who's it gonna be? What are they bringing? An hour passes, back on the phone. Where are you at? I told you to fucking get your ass over here, this and that, whatever's, and he hangs up, and I'm like, oh shit, that guy's whoever it is is not coming, you know. So I'm like, all right. So he comes up to me and then he acts like he's gonna punch me. And I like instinctively just jump back and we kind of square off, and he starts laughing, and I was like, man, fuck all this. And I just took off walking. And he's like, hey, weasel, no, no, let me give you a ride, let me give you a ride. I was like, no, fuck that. And I just fucking walked home, bro. And I remember the it was a long walk home, and I remember just thinking, I'm like, all right, fuck this. Fuck all this. Get home. I already knew word was gonna get around. I was gonna start finding out who's gonna fall on my side, who was gonna fall on the other side, and it started finding out real quickly. Uh the next morning, now I was a couple days later, Monday at work, get a phone call. It was one of the big homies, and he's like, Abra, I want to let you know. They're saying green light. I don't know what that means. I love you, dude. Uh, want you to be careful, watch your back. And that meant a lot to me because this dude who I still view like a brother cared about me more than that to tell me, like, be careful, you know, be safe. So I was like, okay, well, at least I got this guy, you know. Um, and yeah, following that month, you know, I start finding out this guy's talking shit. This guy still fucks with me. Uh, people calling me, bro, don't worry about that. We got your back, we love you. Other dudes are like, fuck that guy, we're gonna beat his ass. I heard they they wanted to uh DP me, discipline me. And then I was like, bro, I'm not jumped in, homie. So this is not gonna be a DP. This is this is gonna be war if you try to fuck with me. Um the funny thing is, bro, all those dudes that I went out of my way to try to prove something to and befriend fell on the other side. All the dudes that I was myself with were my friends, bro. Because I wasn't going out of my way to punch dudes, act crazy, put money on their books, this and that. All the dudes that I could show up and just be myself with and show genuine love to and have a genuine friendship and relationship with fell on my side, bro. I remember talking to homie and I was like, hey bro, I want to let you know what's going on. And he looked at me and he's like, You don't gotta say shit. I got your back. You don't gotta say nothing. And this dude's like jumped in. He's like, I got you, bro. You don't gotta worry about that. I got you, not with me. And I was like, Oh, I got emotional, bro. I was like, Thank you, bro. Like, that meant a lot. And so that happened. So that was the whole falling out. Um, was it a relief when you finally got called on it? It was, it was a huge relief because I was like, Well, here we go. Like I knew this was coming, it came, and now let's navigate this, right? Um, so what I did, the way I navigated through it was I would stay away from Canyon County. So if I had to go grocery shopping, I I would go out to uh Ada. So I'd go to Meridian Walmart. If I was going to the movies, uh I got a girlfriend at the time, we'd go out and spend time out in Ada County uh because I was staying away from Napa, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:22

So after that time that you had got the information that you were Greenlit.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:25

Yeah. So I'd pull up to the gas station, I'd see a car recognized, I'd see something, I'm like, whoop, next gas station, you know? Um, so I was doing all that. Now I would come across these dudes, but when they were, I'd come across one-on-one, it was like, oh, what's up, dude? I'm like, I know for a fact you don't like me. I know for a fact, and what's up, nah, bro? I'm like, hey no, bro, like I heard you you want to get it. No, bro, fuck nah, fuck all that. Then I'd run across some other dudes and they're just staring me down. I'm like, oh, this dude wants to get it, but for whatever reason, nothing's popping off. Probably because he's alone, you know. Uh not saying I'm some badass, I'm not. But I'm like, when shit gets real, I'm like, well, you're I know for a fact if there was two of them, they would, they would have beat my ass, you know. Um, but I think you mentioned before, I respected more of the dudes that kept it real with me and were like, yeah, no, I do want to beat your ass and didn't have, you know, versus the dudes that came up to me. I heard all this, they were talking crap, and then uh they weren't about it. And so I'd run across these dudes and nothing ever happened. Now I do think that nothing ever happened because of the dudes who had my back. I swear. It wasn't because they didn't want to fuck with me, they could very easily find me and beat my ass and do whatever they wanted to do. It was the dudes who were affiliated or even gang members who were like, nah, he's he's with me, you know. I got that guy's back. Um, that's the reason that they didn't touch me, you know. Um, and so I was fortunate in that. So that lasted about a uh so this was before that what happened before I got hired onto the organization. So at this point, I'm probably 22, 23. So I'm laying low for uh for a good uh year. Then finally I got hired onto the organization. Now when I got hired onto the organization, a murder happen, a murder happened here in NAMPA and I found out who it was. Everybody knew who it was, who did the killing before they were even arrested, and people were like, it's just a matter of time, they're gonna get arrested. I had heard that little guy, the homie we took in when he had no one, was around there. Didn't take, didn't partake in the the actual murder itself, but was with them or in the car or something. And uh that broke my heart because I'm like, yep, there it is. All it takes is for you to be in the car, for you to be around them, and now you're gonna face this consequence, right? Um, a couple weeks passed by. At this point, I had lost communication with little guy because I knew he was still heavily like involved with them because of family, and I didn't know if he wanted to fuck with me or not. By the way, our communication stopped. I'm like, he he does probably not wants nothing to do with me. So a couple weeks from that murder um taking place, uh, I get a text message and it's a random number, and I look at it and it's little guy. He's like, hey bro, it's me. Can I talk to you? It's urgent. And so I'm like, wait, this is strange. And um, he's like, please, bro, it's you know, I'm like, yeah, for sure. Uh I get off work at this time. You want to go to my house? He's like, Yeah. Sure enough, the day ends. I go home and I'm thinking, I'm like, this might be a setup. So I go home, put on my basketball shorts, my Nikes, tie them as tight as possible, have my shirt off, go sit outside. And I'm like, kind of just accepting it at this point. I'm like, no, this is this is what comes with it, you know, this is what comes with the decisions I've made. Um, and so I'm sitting out there, he texts me, he's like, Hey, I'm down the street. I go out in the road, I see him walking because I'm trying to scope. I'm like, who's this fool with? I see him walking by himself, like down the street. And I'm standing there and I'm just sitting there, and I'm like, oh, it's just him. And he's getting closer, he's getting closer. And now he's close enough where I can see his face, and he just starts crying. And he just literally falls into my arms, bro. He's just crying, and I'm holding him like, What's wrong, bro? And I mean, this will kind of can't even breathe. You know, he's I'm like, What's wrong? What's wrong? He's like, But did you hear what happened? And I was like, Yeah. He said, Did you hear that that I was there? And I was like, Yeah. I didn't do anything, bro. I was just there, like this and that. The cops picked me up and they said that. If I don't, you know, if I don't testify that they're gonna charge me with uh aiding and abetting, uh, I think first degree murder or second degree. And I was like, shit, bro. He's like, I don't know what to do, bro. He's like, I don't want to go to prison, like my whole family's been in prison, like I don't want to go. Everybody's been everybody in his family has seriously been in prison. His siblings, parents, he's like, I don't want to go, bro. Um and I'm holding him, he's like, I don't know what to do, and we're having this conversation, and I was like, Well, I don't know what you should do. I know what I would do. That kid who passed away was somebody's loved one, that was somebody's son, sibling, and that's not okay. I'm like, I can't tell you what to do though, bro. And he's crying, he's like, Alright, bro, I appreciate it. I'm like, regardless of what you do, bro, I love you, homie. And I just thought about the big homie who gave me that call. He's like, I got you, bro, like I love you. I can't I was telling this little guy the same thing. I love you, bro. But whatever you do, homie, like you know that you were with us when you were younger, and we love you, we have your back, bro, like this. And he's like, Alright, bro. And he's crying, he's wiping his tears, and uh and he tells me, he's like, I want to give you something. And he reaches in his back pocket and he pulls out a folded piece of paper, right? He gives it to me, I open it up, and there's you know, paragraphs, and there's a highlighted sentence, and I take a look at it and I read it. Yeah, I sold him the gun, but I didn't know what he was gonna do with it. It was the paperwork, right? That pretty much had me dry snitching in the discovery. And so I look at that and then I realized that he was the one that was supposed to show up that night when that guy was making the phone call. He was gonna bring the paperwork to confront me about the paperwork that had me dry snitching on it with that sentence, right? And I was like, holy shit, it was I was looking at it, I'm like, it was him. Like he was supposed to be bringing that paperwork, which made sense because his family was involved and they were in there. So I'm sure they got a hold of it and then they sent it out and he got to him, right? And like, hey, show everybody this paperwork. And I'm like, holy shit, like it's it was him. He was supposed to be, and no wonder he didn't show up, he was hesitant to show up because it was me. So it's all started making sense, and um he's like, have it, bro, like rip it up, tear it up, burn it. I don't care what you do with it. And then this is when I know it was like, I'm I'm done. I'm I'm done with completely done with that world. Is that I thought about it and then I just folded it up and gave it to him. I'm like, no, bro, you're good. Like, you do with that what you want. He's like, I'm gonna get rid of it. I'm like, yeah, bro. You do with that what you want. And I remember hugging him, he walked away, he still had it. And walking, man, those two steps back towards my house, I was like, Yeah, this is it. Like, I'm done. I'm done. Next thing you know, I'm working at the organization, and I'm able to prove myself that I'm done. I remember thinking, well, all those guys who wanted to fuck me up and all those dudes who don't like me are doing this type of harm to our youth. Well, watch this. Watch this. Look what I'm gonna do with our youth. And it's not all of them. I want people to know that. It's not all bad people, you know, people are in that for whatever reason, family, uh, you know, the the environment they're growing up in, but it's not all bad people, they're not all criminals, right? Um but for the ones who do want to harm our youth and want to, in a way, groom them to go through the pain and give their family the pain and other people pain of what they've done in the community, who they're okay doing that. My big fuck you to that is like, watch what we do. Watch this, right? That's why I love my job, bro. Because I get to show up for my kids and be like, you think they love you? This is love, this is support, right? And watch you what you can do when somebody believes in you and when somebody eliminates obstacles for you and provides opportunity. There's strangers out there who invest into breaking chains that you will never meet, but they invest into breaking chains so that we can invest in you because they believe in you, right? So watch this. And so that's what we do, bro. And but I knew that moment of when that happened that that was I was a oh I was uh reborn, I was a whole new person, that I was gonna move different and be a different person, and my values and priorities were were different, and that again I wasn't in their world anymore. This is my world.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:11

What did you do to completely shift that identity to being one foot out completely?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:16

It was the closure within of me knowing that I didn't uh live in their world as far as that paperwork, because you would have taken me back two years and somebody's like, hey, this is that paperwork. I'll be like, Oh shit, I would have yanked that real quick and ripped it up and burned it and buried it. Uh but knowing that I was okay for that to be out in the world, it was almost an acceptance of myself of who I was, the mistakes I made in life, all the decisions leading to that point. I was accepting it and being like, Well, I'm gonna live with whatever consequences come with this, but I'm gonna be I'm gonna be I'm gonna have some grace for myself and be okay with what I've done and who I am and move forward with that, right? Um and that's where I knew. I was like, okay, well, this is me now. So uh ever since then I've been moving like that and I'm here now.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:58

So how long before you felt like you didn't have to keep looking over your shoulder?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:02

I still look over my shoulder, bro. That doesn't go away. Okay, that doesn't go away. Uh a couple months back I ran into somebody that I knew the way he looked at me. Uh if he could would do something to me, and I know he I know for a fact he has something on him, right? Um so I always look over my shoulder. I'm always cautious, right? And me and him stared at each other down. Um and I told him like what's up, and he kind of looked down. Um but that dude will harm me, but I'm not scared. I'm not living a life in fear is a wasted life. I'm always looking at my shoulder, always cautious, hyper-vigilant, but I'm not scared, bro. Life's too short to be scared, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:43

Um What do you think is it that separates you from like the other OGs that are like old and they never leave the gang life?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:53

Opportunity. They never had a breaking chains. Straight up. Their whole identity is that. Again, when they they've done five, ten, fifteen years for that, and when they have loved ones who have passed away and when they've gotten shot and stabbed, and that's all they have, and they never had the opportunity to be something else. I would hold on to that too. The difference between me and them is that I had breaking chains. And I'm not just saying that because I'm the executive director now, look at me. I think I'm a clear example of what community looks like when they come together and they say, No, that's not gonna happen to our kids, and they invest in a nonprofit like breaking chains. I really I truly believe that it the I have homies who are in prison. I have homies who have passed away, and what they didn't have was a breaking chains, and I think that is a difference. It doesn't have to be a breaking chains, it can be a support system, it can be something else that eliminates obstacles for them and provides opportunity, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:46

Some kind of a mentorship to show them there's another way in life. Absolutely, even for people with a piss uh a past or a history.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:52

No, a hundred percent. I mean, um, one of the best things I ever heard was uh you don't know what's possible until you start experiencing bits of that possible, right? And often that is through mentorship, right? When these kids get to show up and hang out with you guys at the gym, and now they're like, oh shit, we got these older buffed out dudes hanging out with us, teaching us how to work out. And it isn't about trying to be this badass gangster for this other dude. It's like this dude, look at this dude is like showing me how to do something productive and and he's reached his goals. And uh the kids were sharing with me that when they worked out with you yesterday, that you showed them an old picture of you, and they were like, dude, like this dude did that in like six months or something, you know? And he's like, That's badass, like, and they're just proud to come in this morning and talk about how they were at the gym with some badass dudes, bro. Some dudes who care about them, who invest in them. Um, so it can be it looks it's just about community, you know. I've always said it as a community, we belong to each other, and it's our obligation to take care of one another, bro. Right? Are each other's kids, why wouldn't we? We're all in this in this community together, and so if we can have some compassion, invest in each other, try to look for the good in each other, um, I think you know this place would be a little better.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:57

How can we help out the kids that haven't exactly got expelled from high school but are still in that area?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:03

So I'm a huge advocate of just staying productive, man. So if these kids are in high school, like we need to have like we need to play sports these days, fucking expensive, bro. So I'm I think about all the kids who are athletes who can't play sports or can't the girls who can't be in cheer or play sports because of how expensive stuff is. And I realized that when I put my daughter through cheer, $2,500 so she can do cheer for a year. Um, I'm thinking about all the other girls who can't, who deserve an opportunity to do so. And no, it's no wonder that after school they're doing this or on the weekends they're doing that. I'm like, well, you know, my girl, my daughter was getting up at 5 a.m. to go to cheer and doing competitions on the weekend, staying after, staying productive. Like the biggest thing for kids in high school who haven't been expelled is like scholarships for sports, that true support system for them. Uh um, how can we provide mentors for them? And I don't blame the traditional school setting. They're they're working with hundreds, thousands of kids every day, right? What makes us unique is that we're so small and we get to spend individualized time with each individual and invest in each individual, right? So I don't blame the teachers who are working with hundreds of kids or thousands of kids, you know. It's they're doing what they can with what they have in the parameters that they're in, right? Um, but really truly investing in these kids is and and not seeing them just as like a this is a kid I just have to get through my class or get through the day. It's like seeing a kid that you really need to invest in. And I know that teachers didn't sign up to be social workers or to be counselors, but at the end of the day, it's what it's become, right? And there's some I've met some amazing, fabulous teachers in in the school district here in Napa, Valley View, uh, Caldwell School. There's some amazing people in the right places, but at times it feels like it's very few of the right people in the right places. But I've met some beautiful, wonderful educators who really care about our kids and who are making a difference in their classroom. Um, and so I think there is good people out there, you know. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:55

I'm sure over the years you guys have had hundreds, thousands of kids you've helped get their GEDs. Is there anyone that is like sticks out more than not maybe more than the other, but just that is really on top of your head that you're remember?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:06

Yes. So I do have this one individual who will always, you know, have a place in my heart. His name was his name is Jose Hernandez. Um, I met him when he was about 14, 15 years old. And the way I met him was um my office window faces the park. And I saw a group of three kids out there, and I could tell they were gonna fight, just be their demeanor, they were like taking off their shirts, taking off their pants, they had like basketball shorts underneath. And so I go out there, I decided to introduce myself. I say, Hey, what's up, man? My name is so-and-so. And one of them's like, Oh, yeah, I know who you are. You're at Breaking Chains. I was like, Yeah, I'm over here. So I just kind of start talking to them. And one of them was Jose. I met Jose and I'm like, hey man, if you ever, for whatever reason, need uh, you know, uh come come and look at some different uh education options, come talk to me. We offer GED, H S C. He's like, all right, cool. But probably a year and a half, he comes by with his mom. He's uh 16 at this time, 15 or 16. And um I get to meet him and his mom. Come to find out they live that right down the street. They're living in a one-bedroom apartment um with mom, Jose, and then the little brother, right? Meet Jose. Jose's on probation. He does have an affiliation, great kid, great smile. Gets enrolled in our education services. So we start our education services. And a few months later, uh, it was a Sunday morning. I get a call that a kid in Napa had been shot three times. And as we always do, uh, me and my team start giving each other calls, text messages, who could it be? They said it's a male, 16-year-old. We start going through our mental roster of all our kids in the classroom, past graduates, hoping that it's not one of them. Come to find out it was Jose. So Jose was at a party, ended up getting shot three times. Um thankfully, the ambulance got there in time. They were able to save his life. You know, we saw Jose at the hospital through FaceTime, he's hurt, bad condition. Um, eleven days later, Jose walks into the doors at breaking chains. He's using a walker to walk, all bandaged up, starts showing the kids. Uh, he still had two of the bullets inside of him. So he starts showing all the kids. It's nasty. Uh he sits down and grabs his folder and starts getting back to work. And I remember looking at Jose and being like, bro, you take some time off. Like, come back when you're fully healed and ready to go. And Jose was determined. He told me, I want to get my GED because I want to become a barber. And I was like, okay, bro, well, we got you. And so sure enough, a month later, Jose got his GED. We were so proud of him. And then I go into panic mode because now I have this six-year-old, he got the GED, he doesn't have to be at school anymore. Now he has all this free time. He had just gotten shot. The last thing I want him for him to have his free time or time to be out on the streets. So I give my board members some calls and I'm trying to figure out. I'm like, hey, what can we do for him? And they're like, well, what does he want to do? I'm like, well, he wants to be a barber. And so one of my board members said, All right, well, let's uh make some calls. She calls me back. She's like, hey, uh, Boise Barber uh College wants to set up a Zoom call with Jose. I said, okay. Got in contact with them. We set up a Zoom call. Jose came in, they sat down, and uh Boise Barber College uh told Jose, Hey, we heard where you want to become a barber, we heard your story. Um, we want to give you a full right scholarship to attend. So they gave Jose a full rights scholarship to barber school. He was 16 years old, and we were all in shock. It's unheard of. It's the first time ever that they've ever given a full right scholarship. Um, Jose didn't even know what college was. He was so happy. He hung up the call. He's like, hey, so do I do I have to live there? And I was like, no, bro, you don't have to live there. You you go, it's like normal school. You go, you show up for the day, and you go home. It's like, oh, okay. Um now it was during this time when he was at Boise Barber that he got in more trouble. So now he's looking at commitment to get locked up for at least a year, right? And he has court and he mom gets a hold of me. She's like, hey, he's so close to graduating barber school. Can you show up to the to court and uh just for support? I said absolutely. So I show up to court, bro. I'm sitting there just for moral support. He looks back, he sees me, he smiles, and I'm sitting there. They're going back and forth. I thought I was gonna be there for 30 minutes. I've been I've been at a juvenile court, you know, uh, a brief one is like 10 minutes, right? And a long one is probably 30. Bro, we were sitting there for an hour, they're going back and forth, trying to decide what to do. Finally, the judge calls on me because he knows me through breaking chains and he says, Um, can you come up here? And I was like, sure. So they puts me on the stand, swears me in. Next thing you know, I'm testifying for 45 minutes why Jose should get out, right? And remember at one point I just stopped and I looked at Jose and I asked the judge, can I address him directly? And the judge said, Yeah, and I looked at Jose, I'm like, bro, you're amazing, bro. You're amazing. You can do whatever you want. You survived three bullets, brother. Like, you you can do this, you can absolutely do this. And I just was talking to Jose, and finally they excused me. Boom, they let him out. Let Jose out immediately got out that day, went right back to barber school. They were holding a spot because he had been locked up for a little bit and they were thinking of of uh dropping him, but they the people there held the spot because they knew he was in court. They showed up to the court. I forgot they zoomed in. So that his professors at Boise Barbara College uh zoomed in and they talked as well. So now he has a support system, right? I'm usually usually I walk into the a courtroom for our kids and it's mom or grandma, uh, and then the kid, and then you'll see like on this side, you'll see like the prosecutor, you'll see like the probation officer, a counselor, caseworker. So sometimes it feels like there's a whole team on this side and only you know a couple people on this side. But this time, like Jose has this little army behind him who who loved him and cared about him and showed up for him. Um they let him out. My boy graduates Boise Barbara College. At this point, he's 17. Um, he starts cutting hair. Um he becomes a barbershop owner at 18. And then at 19, he buys 20. I apologize, at 20, he buys his first home and then moves his mom and little brother in. And now mom and little brother live with him at his house, still business owner, running the shop, employing barbers who are older than him, um, and just holding it down. Now, this this kid who comes from a low-income single-parent home, gang affiliation, is now a productive member of the community, paying taxes, contributing back to the community. He does back to school haircuts. Um the barbershop's called but called them Nampa Boys. It's here in Nampa off Garrety. And uh again, doing back to school cuts, community events, and giving giving back to the community. And so that to me is one of the success stories, and also proof that these kids have dreams too. That's amazing. No matter where they're from, right? Um, and that if we can eliminate those obstacles, provide opportunity, give them support, and if they work hard, they can achieve what they want.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:49

That's amazing. That's that's one of the coolest stories I've ever heard.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:51

Yeah, I'm proud of him. He's he's around here in Napa. So if anybody's ever needing a haircut, check out them Napa boys, it's off Garrety. Uh, it's an awesome shop. He's an awesome uh guy. He's only 21 years old. He's just holding it down, running the show. Um again, man, come on. I I was how old was I when I bought my home? 36, 35. This dude bought a home at 20, moved his parents, his mom in and his little brother. One of the cutest things is when uh he was telling me, he's like, I bought my home. And I was in the shop, his little brother was in the shop sweeping, and uh, his little brother's like, yeah, I got my own room finally. You know, so he gave his little brother his own room, right? And so when these kids were sleeping on couches or um whatnot, like now, like, you know, he set the bar right at a different place where now his kids uh can start from there and work on up.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:34

So and he's breaking those chains for his brother.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:35

Yeah, absolutely. Leading leading the way. And the beautiful thing is that after he went to barber school, we've had I don't know how many kids now try to follow in his footsteps. We've had a bunch of uh uh Boise Barber graduates and even uh Paul Mitchell and Ampa and it opened those doors, right? And we've had kids go off to CWI or BSU, and now other kids are like, wait a minute, we can do that too. And then they start doing it, they start following their footsteps, right? So they're they're really like trailblazing and leading the way for these other individuals. And I don't even know if they realize it, but the amount of kids that went to Boise Barber School because of him, I don't even I can't even count. He really opened those doors, right? And then we established an awesome relationship with Boise Barber College. They know what breaking chains is, who we work with, and how our kids go there, and it's just this this uh community, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:46:16

That's awesome, man. You were talking about graduation. How did you guys graduation go this last week? Remember, it was like a groundbreaking thing because you guys had to be so big you had to get your own.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:26

So you in the past years we've done our graduation at CWI's commencement, um, which has been great. We love the partnership with CWI. They always mentioned breaking change, breaking chains, uh, which made us feel a part of it. But last year we had 84 graduates and it extended their ceremony by like an hour and a half. And so they were talking about maybe splitting the GED graduates from the other graduates at CWI, and we said, well, if you're gonna do that, we'll just do our own. So this past Friday, uh, we finally did our own Breaking Chains Academy graduation, and we had 48 of our students walk the stage. We filled, oh, we did it at Grace Bible Church here in Napa, and I believe capacity is about 600, standing room only. Standing room only. And it was family, it was supporters, it was donors, it was community members, people showing up for our kids. And it was awesome to see our kids walk the stage and then look into the crowd and see just a community of people who believed in them, care about them, and who showed up for them. It was a beautiful ceremony.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:20

And the interesting thing about breaking chains is that you guys have both sides of the gangs. Yes. So you guys still come together and everything, there's you guys never have any issues. And how was that graduation commencement? Was it nervous going into that, knowing that you might get families from both sides?

SPEAKER_00 1:47:35

No, um, we're just so used to it because this is what we do, right? Uh since the beginning of time, we've had rival gang members uh in our classroom, right? So one of the initial meetings I have with them when they show up for enrollment is I sit down and when I know they're a gang affiliated, I say, uh, okay, you came to me because you're ready. You're telling me you're ready for this. And if you're here and you're able to attempt to reach your goals and allow others to attempt to reach their goals, then you're at the right place. But if you're just so down and so gangster not to do that quite yet, I I understand I was there to just come back when you're ready. Every single person has told me I'm ready 100%. Haven't had one single gang altercation, one single issue. Um, I'm not saying they're becoming best friends, but they're sharing space together. And they're we're one classroom that only sits 15 students. They're able to sit in there and work, you know, at uh trying to reach their goals and uh and allow the other people to try to reach their goals as well. And so my big goal is how do I transfer that into the community as a whole? What's happening in the classroom, how do I make sure that when these guys do run into each other at you know the movies, at the mall, that they see each other and decide to be like, nah, I go to school with that kid. Now I tell him, I tell him, if you do something out there, I'm gonna treat it as you did it in my classroom. So there is those expectations, right? So if he something out there does happen with uh one of the other kids in our classroom, I'm gonna treat it like it happened in the classroom. Uh so there's those expectations. At graduation, um, I like to think that there was, I saw families from rival gangs there, and I like to think that they realize that that day is not about them or egos or those values that they hold on to, even if they're in that life. It's about the accomplishments of whether it's a family member or a loved one there walking that stage, right? Um, so nothing happened. I mean, it's always in my mind, right? Right. And it's a it's something that could happen in the future, hasn't happened yet, thankfully. Um, but I think if we continue to foster community and show them what breaking chains is, um, that we'll be okay. We'll be fine. And even if it does happen, it comes with the territory and we're always figuring it out. I don't want no one being harmed. I don't want nothing to happen, but um, this comes with the territory and the space of the work we're doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:38

Sure. Yeah, and I know you said that you guys have a wait list because you have so many people wanting in and stuff. So what's next for breaking chains?

SPEAKER_00 1:49:45

Yes, a wait list. So uh again, my classroom only sits 15 students at a time, effectively. And we did have a wait list that was over 20 students uh here just a couple weeks ago, uh, just because we're so successful at what we do, but also how we do it and who we do it with. Right again, the highest risk kids in the classroom. And so the big thing on our list is to get a bigger space, bigger building. And we are having those conversations now. Uh, my thing is with fifty, you know, a classroom that only sits 15 students, produced 69 graduates in 2025. What can I do with two classrooms? Right? My impact grows. So that's where my my head is at, and my mind is at is to get a bigger space. Also to ensure that I am creating the leaders that Breaking Chains needs so that this work continues after I leave. Because this mission, this work is not only going to be uh, you know, my leadership will not only be judged on when I was there, it's gonna be judged as when I left. Did I leave the right people, the right leaders? So my big dream is to start employing our graduates, right? As they as kind of what will happen to me, employ them so that they can grow within the program because they know the program in and out. So finding the right uh graduates who can um whom we can invest into and then they can invest into breaking chains to continue the mission. I never want to lose our philosophy, our mission, our vision. I want to uh continue that. How can the community help? Get involved. Um, I'd invite the community to look us up on breakingchainsacademy.org. Um, send an email, telephone call. Right now, um, you know, always with the growth is always we need more supporters, more donors. Um, whether it's you know a check you can write to Breaking Chains Academy, or you have a resource that we might be able to tap into, feel free to reach out um and see how you can get involved. Right. For a good example is the gym, right? That was a connection we made with the community, and now we have a gym day every week that our kids can come in and look forward to uh participating in that, which was something we didn't have. Um, another neat thing is that people have you know reached out and given us tickets to BSU games and uh the you know the steel heads and things like that. A lot of the kids we work with do come from low-income or single-parent homes where they can't go out and do those you know unique experiences or or have fun or spend time with family. One of the things I love to do is when I know a kid has uh incarcerated uh you know mom or dad and then they get out is to be able to provide something unique for them. Like, hey, go here's some tickets to the ballet, here's some tickets to you know the front street fights um so that they can spend time together. Because usually, you know, if you're just getting out or you are having some hard times, you don't have the means to be able to spend time together and go do some meaningful things, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:52:08

Yeah, just getting out and changing your environment. You were telling me last time about someone that just never even been downtown Ampa.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:14

Yeah, we had uh one one of our graduates, he was living in the Napa Housing Authority, so right across the street. So we we rent our space from the Napa Housing Authority, it's their old administrative offices, and this individual lived actually across the street in one of the housing units there. And he came to school, he graduated, and one day I was going to the bank to the Wells Fargo downtown Ampa, and I took him with me. And I we were walking around, I parked the car, we were walking around, he's looking around, he's like, Oh man, this place is badass. And I was like, How many times do you come to downtown? He's like, Never, this is my first time. This is a kid who literally lives over the bridge who had never been a downtown Nampa. I was like, You never come down here? He's like, No, we don't have no reason to. So then I'm like, Oh, this dude's never been to downtown Nampa, I'm gonna take him to downtown Boise, right? So I'm like, let's go get lunch. And he's like, All right. So we I take him to downtown Boise. I'm like, I'm gonna take him to the top of one of the parking garages so he can see all the buildings or whatnot. And we get up there and he he he uh has his eyes fixed on the Capitol building. He's like, hey man, can can you take a picture of me next to the Capitol building, like in the background? I was like, absolutely. So he posted up, I took a picture of him, and uh he's like, send it to me, send it to me. And then we're talking. He's like, hey, so that's that's the White House? And uh I was like, nah, bro, that ain't the White House, that's the Capitol building. And so we had a good discussion on why the difference of the Capitol and the White House. But again, that just like a little testament of like our kids never being exposed to even the city over, you know, two cities over, 20 minutes away. Um, and so that's why it's so important for us to expose them to those you know, new and unique experiences to broaden their horizons, and so that I took him to Buffalo Wild Wings downtown Boise, and he was taking pictures of his wings and putting it on Snap and Instagram. He's like, This place is badass. I'm like, bro, this is literally just like a I need to grab something to eat really quick, place. And for you, this is like a whole new experience. And so what I want to do is to let them know that that can be their normal too. You know, we take them to other restaurants and we take them out to you know, Moons for breakfast, and these kids are just like astonished of like the environment. They're like, this is so fancy, and for us it's just like a casual breakfast, right? Um, and so one thing I remember is uh it was my girlfriend um whom I'm still with now finally starting to go like to these restaurants downtown Boise. I didn't know how to order. I'd got the the waitress would come and I'd start sweating, bro. I like I didn't, I just didn't know like how do you want your eggs? I'm like fucking fritos, I don't know, like you know, like um I didn't know I didn't even know how to order coffee so that I'd get invited on these uh like let's go get coffee for like a meeting. And I'd my girlfriend would have to text me, I'm like, hey, I need to order a coffee, what do I do? So I'd had it in my phone, so every time I'd go order a coffee, I can be like, hey, I want to iced Americano with almond milk and sugar free vanilla. I didn't know how to order coffee. I had never been to a coffee shop, I had never been to a place where you have to put the you know the the napkin on your lap. Like I had never been to that. So what I want to do is show them um this is your normal, this is gonna be normal, like this is where you're gonna be. Um, and again, just broaden their horizons.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:58

That's awesome. Yeah, I think the law of exposure is just so huge. Once you've been exposed to something, you can't be unexposed. It just shows you what's possible, and then it just that's the hope, brings the hope back. So I agree, totally agree, man. Well, man, I really appreciate you coming on and like sharing all this. This has been amazing. I hope that we can chop these up into reels and get some some more people funneling into the breaking change because you what you guys are doing is such a such an amazing thing. And um, I can't wait to keep going on Tuesdays and hanging out with the kids at the gym. Like I know what the gym's done for me and if it can help other people too, which it I know it can, dude. I'm I'm stoked.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:30

I appreciate you, brother. Yeah, thank you for the support, um, you know, for this opportunity and then for hanging out our with our kids at the gym. It means a lot. A lot of people uh talk, but when they show up, you know, or when they write a check, you know, that means a lot, bro. So you showing up and and um and uh putting action to that, I it it's really it means a lot to us, bro. So thank you. Again, it makes us feel like our community is just growing and uh our kids get to see you and know like, hey, this guy got to our back and he cares about us. So we appreciate we appreciate you, brother. Always. Yeah. Thanks, man. Appreciate it.