Father Knows Best—Episode 27: What Thomas Knew About Jesus’ Crucifixion Before He Saw Jesus; Who the Hellenists Are; and What We Know About Jesus’ Prior to His Public Ministry

Wednesday, July 15, 9:00 pm on Siouxland Catholic Radio 88.1 FM 

Episode #27 of Father Knows Best sponsored by St. Augustine Indian Mission in Winnebago, NE features Father Mark Stoll addressing questions about what Thomas knew about Jesus’ crucifixion before he saw Jesus a week after Jesus’ resurrection, who the Hellenists are who are mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles, and what we know about Jesus’ prior to His public ministry. 

Tune in tonight so we may discover, learn, and engage our hearts, souls and minds so we may be illuminated, informed and inspired. Please send your questions to fatherknowsbestshow@yahoo.com.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I have questions. I don't understand. I'm confused. What's going on? That's not what I learned in school. What does the church really teach? Welcome to Father Know's Bush, the studios of 88.1 FM, KFA C Pankasu City, and K-O-I-A Storm Lake. Brought to you by the St. Augustine Indian Mission, Winnebago. We all have questions and are curious about matters of faith as it is normal for humanity to ask questions and seek answers in the timeless quest for understanding regarding matters of faith in the church. We believe that there is no such thing as a foolish or dumb question. And I say the only dumb question is the one that is not asked. And the reality is that the questions you have are like questions others have, and so it is good to ask. Sometimes an answer leads to more questions. Sometimes the questions and answers will lead us to insights we never considered. We at Siouxland Catholic Radio want to invite our listeners from Jackson, Nebraska to Elk Point, South Dakota, to Storm Lake, Iowa, and everywhere in between and beyond, send your questions to us at Father Knows Best Show at Yahoo.com. Or mail them to Father Knows Best, Sioux Line Catholic Radio, 701 West Fifth Street, Sioux City, Iowa, 51103. During this time, once a week, I or another guest will do our best to answer some of the questions I've received here at the studio so we may discover, learn, and engage our hearts and souls and minds, so we may be illuminated, informed, and inspired. So I thank you for tuning in. We invite you to open your mind, let the questions begin, and let your curiosity find its voice. I'm Father Mark Stowe, priest of the Diocese City with you today. And again, joining me is Tim Sudin, Executive Director of Siouxland Catholic Radio, presenting some of the questions I've received from your listeners. And so, Tim, are you ready for another round of questions and answers?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Every Wednesday night I get excited about learning more about my faith, and I hope the listeners feel that way as well. It's just a wonderful time to learn more about why we're Catholic and how we become Catholic. So excellent.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Let's jump into our first question. Well, let's first of all thank Ann for being here to make sure this is getting on the air.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Ann probably has the toughest job here making a lot of things. I think she does.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

I know she does. I think she does. So now let's dive into a first question. What's our first question we're going to talk about tonight?

SPEAKER_01 2:16

This is from a faithful listener. As I read John chapter 20, verse 25, in which Thomas says, Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands and put my finger into the mark of the nails and my hand into his side, I will not believe.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

But he, Thomas, says to them, unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands, but a finger into the nail marks, put my hand inside, I will not believe. This passage, this verse of the Gospel of John, is about an event that takes place after the evening of the first Sunday, first Easter Sunday. So again, we know that Jesus rose that morning, that race first Easter Sunday. He appears to a couple times to a number of people, including Mary Magdalene in the garden. He appears to two disciples on the road to Emmaus. Then Jesus appears to the ten apostles and a few others there that Sunday evening. And Thomas is not present. Again, why Thomas is not present, we don't know. You know, did he go buy groceries? No, what was he doing? We don't know. The gospels don't clarify what he's done. It just says he was not present at that point. So then sometime between that first Easter Sunday morning and seven days later, second Sunday of Easter, again, the exact day or time is not clear, and it really doesn't matter. What matters is that sometime, whenever Thomas comes back to the room where all the other ten apostles are, he is informed that they have seen Jesus. And they've seen Jesus, he's alive and well. And this is when Thomas would have made his famous statement unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands, put my finger to his nail marks, put my hand in his side, I will not believe. So, how does Thomas know that Jesus has nail marks and a wound in his side? So we know that he and the other disciples abandoned Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus was arrested and led away. We of course know that St. Peter, Peter, does in the courtyard of the high priest that evening denies three times that he knows Jesus, and then he goes into hiding. And we don't know where he goes. He doesn't appear until that first Easter Sunday evening. We also know that the Apostle John, often referred to as beloved apostle, and Jesus' mother Mary, gathered at the foot of the cross when Jesus dies, and they would have assisted, of course, with the removal of the body of Jesus and laying Jesus in the tomb. Obviously, John would have seen the nail marks and the wound in the side that was made by the lance of the soldier. In fact, John would have been the only apostle who would have saw Jesus on the cross and his body when it was moved from the cross. Because again, we see that at the cross there Jesus says to him, Behold your mother. Says to his mother, Behold your son. Also, of course, there are other witnesses of the crucifixion. Besides Jesus' mother and John, there is Mary, the mother of Jesus' sister, Mary, the wife of Clophis. Mary Magdalene is there, and of course, you have a crowd that came to watch. Thomas, of course, is not present. So, how would he know about the nail marks and the wooden side? First, I believe it would be very common, very common knowledge at that time of nail marks in anyone who was crucified. You know, because crucifixion was the cruelest form of punishment, torture, and execution used by the Roman Empire, used against their enemies, used against non-Roman citizens. And so the use of nails to attach a person to the cross was common knowledge. Thus we can argue that, and be certain that Thomas would have known Jesus would have been led to be crucified, and it would be normal and typical. Jesus' body would have nail marks. Now, second, the wound in Jesus' side was not normally part of the process of crucifixion. Normally, the person on the cross would have been left on the cross for hours and even days to suffer a slow, painful death. And if that person was not dead by the end of that time, a soldier would then break the lower part of the person's legs, so the person could not support himself with his legs, and thus breaking the legs would lead to death in a very, very short time. However, due to the scourging and the long walk to Mount Calvary carrying the cross, Jesus was very weak, and he died only three hours after only three hours on the cross. Because as we hear in the Gospel of John chapter 19, verse 32 to 34, it says, So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first, and then the other, who was crucified with Jesus. But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs, but one soldier thrust a lance into his side, immediately blood and water flowed out. And in the next verse, first thirty-eight, we hear, An eyewitness has testified, and his testimony is true. He knows he is speaking the truth, so that you may also come to believe. Now exactly who that witness is, we do not know. But again, remember, at that cross, at the crucifixion, the witnesses included Jesus' mother Mary, his mother's sister Mary and wife of Clophis, Mary Magdalene and the crowd, and of course, we know John, the beloved disciple, would have been there. We also know that Joseph Ari Marthea was there, who then helped put Jesus in the tomb. So any one of these witnesses could have told Thomas the next time they saw him. And so, you know, we know that of course at that time there's no social media, no newspapers, radio, TV to report on the crucifixion of Jesus. But word could have easily gone around town very quickly about what happened to Jesus on the cross, including the piercing of his side. Again, Jesus was not just kind of an ordinary criminal. He was widely known as a preacher, as a healer, someone you know different than others. And so word could have really gone around town very quickly, and even to Thomas. In summary, we could hope that Thomas was present when Jesus was crucified, but again, the gospels make no mention of any of the other apostles other than John being present along with Jesus' mother and two other women, in addition to the crowd. Thomas would have known that crucifixion involved nails and that Jesus' body would have nail marks. He would have known that. They pierced him. They don't do that normally. That could have been reached him somehow, some way. And so sometime before he rejoined the apostles, he probably had heard again about the piercing in the side. And so Thomas then, of course, when he comes, he still can't believe that Jesus would rise from the dead. Remember, Jesus predicted three times he would suffer, die, and rise. Apostles had a hard time believing it, even when he appeared the first time for them. And so here comes Thomas with his famous statement and basically says, prove it. Prove it to me that he's alive. I'm not going to believe you until I stick, see him, I stick my fingers into his nail marks, my hand on his side. But then on that second Sunday of Easter, Thomas is with the other ten apostles. Jesus appears. Thomas then makes this great profession of faith, My Lord and my God. In short, Thomas's statement about the nail marks and the wound in Jesus' side is likely due to a common knowledge of what crucifixion entailed. And very likely, word was around town and even among the apostles about the wound in Jesus' side. So I hope that answers your question.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

I think that does give a very good answer to the question. You know, many times, Father, we are all doubting Thomas's. Yes, we are. We have want to see proof of where God is at, and we just need to have blind faith.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Exactly. And that's Thomas's a great example for us. Let's go to number two tonight.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Via email, Joanne from Sioux City asked this question. I was confused when I read this from the Acts of the Apostles. The Hellenists complained against the Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution. Who are the Hellenists? Who are they to complain against the Hebrews? Is this like the Hatfields and McCoys? What does the daily distribution refer to?

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Thank you very much for that question. Again, like the previous question, we heard this passage proclaimed at Mass during the Easter season. It comes from the Acts of the Apostles, Acts chapter 6, verse 1 to 6. And there it describes that at that time, as the number of disciples, the new members of the church, continued to grow, the Hellenists complained against Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution. And so at that time, remember also now there's twelve apostles because they had elected one to replace Judas. So the twelve gathered together in communion and says, It's not right for us to neglect the word of God and to serve at table. And so they selected from among that group seven reputable men, filled with the spirit of wisdom, as it says, whom they appointed to a task, and then that allowed the apostles to devote themselves to prayer and the ministry of the word. And so again, this proposal as described in chapter 6 of Acts of the Apostles is accepted by the whole community, and then they choose Stephen, a man filled with faith and the Holy Spirit, Philip, Proconerus, Nicanor, Tamon, Parmisius, and Nicholas of Antioch. Again, they presented these men, they were prayed over by the Apostles, hands were laid upon them, and they became the first deacons. Now to understand what's going on here in this chapter, chapter six, we need to go back to chapter four of Acts of the Apostles, particularly verses 32 and 35. And so this chapter, Acts chapter 4, takes two places, two chapters after the coming of the Holy Spirit. And in verse in chapter 4, we read the following The community of believers were of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they held everything in common. With great power the apostles bore witness to the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and great favor was accorded to them all. There they had no needy person among them, for those who owned property or houses would sell them, bring the proceeds of the sale, and put them at the feet of the apostles, and they were distributed to each according to need. And so what we see happening in the early church by chapter 4 of the Acts of Apostles is the new Christians were coming to live in a community in order to support one another. As again, remember, at this time they're a very, very, very small minority, and so they would support each other by in ways of spiritual support, physical support, mental support, material support. And this is how the early church began to grow and flourish. And so with the preaching of the apostles, people of various backgrounds were drawn to the message of the gospel, including Jews, which I'm going to refer to them as the Hebrews of Israel, the people, the Jewish people of Israel, and these Hellenists. So who are these Hellenists? Again, they are mentioned in Acts chapter 6, Acts chapter 9, and Acts chapter 11. And in the Bible, when we refer to Hellenists, we are referring to Greek-speaking Jews who lived outside of Israel and then adopted aspects of the Greek culture while maintaining the Jewish faith. Sometimes they were called Grecian Jews. They were people of Jewish heritage who had embraced aspects of Jewish culture and language. They emerged primarily during the period following Alexander the Great's conquest, that's in the 4th century BC, which again led to a widespread influence of the Greek culture, the Greek civilization throughout the Near East. They again were not what we call Hebrew Jews who attained Aramaic, or in some context, the language of Hebrew, as their primary language, and their being immersed in this local uh traditions of the Greek culture, their Greek became their language. And so the Hellenist Jews spoke Greek as their primary language, and they were more directly attuned into the broader Greco-Roman culture. And thus they were still part of the Jewish family because they were Jews. They believed, you know, everything that the Jewish people did. They practiced just like all the Jews did in Israel. But again, it was like Greek versus Israel. So both practiced Jewish religion, but had different cultural practices and languages. And so this is kind of like having, like, maybe, let's use an example, sibling rivalry. In sense, a sibling who moves to a foreign country and seems to have kind of abandoned the family, kind of disappears. And then many years later, our sibling comes back to the family gathering, and when the sibling comes back, brings different cultures and language. Maybe we even look down upon the sibling because that sibling is different, even kind of strange, but the sibling is still a family. And so what we're talking about here, this is not like the Hatfield McCoys. And so this little summary of who the Hatfield McCoys were. There were two American families known for their infamous feud that was marked by violence and legal battles, which took place between 1863 and 1891 on the border of Kentucky and West Virginia. Again, the rivalries are due to Civil War loyalties, a stolen hog, and a romantic relationship between a McCoy girl and a Hatfield boy. In this case, the complaint of the Hellenists against the Hebrews is more of an interior family dispute, such as happens when one person, maybe at the dinner table, takes more of the potato salad than the others and leaves just a little bit for the others or nothing in the bowl. So this might lead to name-calling or it might lead to a food fight. But it's they're not going to pull out their guns and start shooting each other, they're not going to go to court, they're not going to set each other's houses on fire. And so the Hellenists and the Hebrew, Hebrew Jews, again, family, but again, they might have saw a little bit of discrimination that one wasn't getting the fair distribution. So again, this daily distribution refers to the property possessions that were being sold and our resources being shared among the whole community according to each one's needs. And so what appears has happened here in the early Christian community, that it was becoming a challenge for the apostles to see that everyone's basic needs were being met. Yes, the apostles needed help, but they needed to delegate some of the things that needed to be done to others. And so the apostles needed to focus on their role as service to the word. They were head of the community, they were the bishops. Kind of like take care of the daily, you know, feedings, needs, whatever. And so they chose seven assistants, the first uh deacons. So some commentators believe that the apostles' decision to choose these seven assistants, seven assistants, you know, was not about serving the food, but again, it's about accounting of records for the distribution of food and other supplies to the needy members of the community. Uh so they're kind of more like maybe like might say more like bookkeepers, you might say. And so they were in charge of basically accounting for the records. Um apostles didn't have time to do the bookkeeping. They chose seven assistants to do that bookkeeping. This, of course, would resolve an issue that could lead to name-calling, food fights, or even a schism or a break in the community. And so today we can continue to look at the various roles we have in the church, you know, help out with the various tasks the church needs to oversee from the ministration to bookkeeping, even to the cleaning of toilets and everything in between. Again, one person cannot do it all. That's why we have this kind of delegation of various roles throughout our entire church. So, in summary, the Hellenists were Jews of the Greek culture with Greek cultural backgrounds. Apparently, they believed they were not being given the fair share of all the resources the church had and were sharing. And so their complaint uh led to this delegation from the first bishops of our church to others so that the church could continue to grow, continue to meet the needs of its members. And so I hope that answers your question.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

That was very good. You know, today we even lament the difference between the haves and the have-nots.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Amen. Exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

So it sounds like they were much more aware of trying to distribute evenly to the all different people versus what we do. Right. We don't do a very good job of recognizing that. Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

We could probably spend a whole other uh series of questions on to something that community was like. Let's uh just remind people that if you're just tuning in, you're listening to Father Knows Best here on Swin the Catholic Radio as I answer your questions about faith, about the Catholic Church. And Father Mark is still joined by Tim Sadine, who has presented the questions I've received from you, our listeners. And so let's uh dive into a third question, which I believe actually comes from you, Tim.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

It does.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

You got a question.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Yeah, I it's one of those things that I've always thought about. As we go through this, you know, we hear a lot about Jesus in the age beyond 30. We hear a lot about him converting people and and and getting people gathered around him and really making people believe in him. But we don't know much before the early years. Yes. We know pieces of his childhood, age two in the temple and age twelve in his crowds he spoke to. What else do we know about his life prior to his work at age 30 of performing miracles and gaining converts?

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Thank you for this question. Again, a very interesting question. Uh, this, of course, when we look at the Gospels, we of course we know about Jesus from the time before of his birth, when his birth was announced to Mary by the angel Gabriel. Yep. Great stories about his birth. Yep. There's a presentation in the temple soon after his birth. There's a story about when his parents take him to Egypt around age two or so, when King Herod is sending the soldiers to Bethlehem to Kill to destroy him. Then we hear about age twelve, and he's founded the temple, visiting with the scholars. Right. And then all of a sudden he kind of disappears. So what happens between that, those times? You know, age two to return to Nazareth until age twelve, and after twelve to age thirty when he begins his ministry. The Gospels again have very little to say about this. In Luke chapter two, verse forty, it says, The child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom, and the favor of God was upon him. Right. So we've got that. In verse 51 of chapter 2, it says he went down with them and came to Nazareth and was obedient to them. And then the following verse says, Jesus advanced in wisdom and age before God and man. So again, that's basically what the gospels say. So what happens in what we call the hidden years, that's a term we use, you know what. Specific things were going on in Jesus' life prior to his public ministry. Again, only Matthew and Luke in their gospels emphasize the growth in holiness, but do not provide any detailed chronology. And of course, the Gospel of Mark and John mentioned nothing about Jesus' life before his public ministry. So there are some stories and there are some legends of what Jesus did in his early years. And whether or not these stories and legends are true is unknown. And I'm going to share with you some of the just briefly some of these stories and legends that are found what is known as the Naghamadi Library. This not what's called Nagamadi Library is a collection of 52 early Christian and Gnostic texts, which were discovered in 1945 in a large clay jar buried under a cliff in the desert near the upper Egyptian town of Naghamadi. Again, a great majority of these texts that we found in this Nagamadi library were originally written in the 2nd and 3rd centuries A.D. And again, this is basically after the time where the books that we find in the New Testament were already written. You know, the Gospels have already been written, the letters of Paul and the other apostles have already been written. So these books were or these documents were written after the ones we find in the New Testament. These were also written in Greek. Some of these documents are complete texts, others are just pieces of it. Because they've been written in papyrus. So these books were not accepted into the Bible for various reasons, including the lateness of these writings. And again, there are some strange things found in these writings. There are some common things we find, some of the sayings of Jesus, but but some of the strange things we might find, including some of these stories, including legends. In the infancy gospel of Thomas, for instance, it presents a series of episodes of young Jesus. Again, it doesn't explain exactly how old he was, but he performs various miracles, even with a touch of mischief. So in one account, Jesus molds a sparrow out of clay on the Sabbath. He's reprimanded. He then brings them to life, and the sparrows fly away. There's another tale that involves Jesus stretching a piece of wood to assist his father, Joseph, in carpentry. Must have cut it too short, so we're going to stretch the wood. Another narrative, we see Jesus a boy bumps into Jesus. In response, Jesus causes the boy to fall dead, only to raise him back to life at the request of a concerned adult. And then there's another account of Jesus who speaks from the cradle to defend his mother's Mary's honor against accusations of infidelity. So all these stories, again, just a few examples, have not been confirmed. And so these accounts are kind of strange. Again, no mention, of course, in the Gospels. But we can spec a little bit about what life was like. Between the time of Jesus' very early life when he began his public ministry, from what we find in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke, again we know that Jesus grew and became strong, was filled with wisdom, the favor of God was upon him. Again, he went down to Nazareth and was obedient to them. But the other thing we can look at is like archaeology. What was life like for people living that day in a small town like Nazareth? You know, what were the type of homes they lived in? You know, how were clothes made? How was food prepared? What kind of entertainment games did they have? What was the religious life like? What was the work like, you know, of a life of a carpenter? Because we know that Jesus would have worked with his foster father Joseph in that carpentry business uh business. And so finally, you know, for the four gospel writers, the primary mission was to tell the story of Jesus from the start of his ministry until the resurrection, with only Matthew and Luke, again including a few accounts of Jesus' young life and the infancy narratives and again being found in the temple at age twelve. In many ways, we d uh and other than speculating, we don't really know what what was going on, other than looking at what would life been like in Nazareth. Right. So that's the best I can do, but maybe we'll find out later when we get to heavens. Jesus, what was it like to be you know four years old or ten or seventeen?

SPEAKER_01 26:26

I find that to be just about what I expected. In that he he obviously would follow his father. Obviously, he probably learned some carpenter skills. So in that process, he probably learned to be very good at being a carpenter. Right by the time he was 30.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

I think the other thing we look at some of his parables, for example, kind of get a sense of what he experienced, some things that he was aware of, you know, a lot of agricultural um images and things like that. So he's got some, yeah. So we get there's some hints in there, but um again for the gospel writers, not that important. Right. And again, we want to really focus on what Jesus saw and taught, but again, it's still nice to kind of like what was it like to better be a child?

SPEAKER_01 27:08

And the first event was the wedding at Canaan. That was the first miracle.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Yep, that was the first miracle, yep. Right, exactly. So I think that's gonna take us up to the end of the show here. So on the next episode, let's uh maybe look at questions about the parents of Blessed Virgin Mary. Again, it's kind of another outside the biblical uh context. Um We have a question about the conversion of G.K. Cheshire to Catholicism and a question about a hymn about my redeemer lives. So I'm gonna work on those for next week. But again, Tim and I, we really appreciate you tuning into South and Catholic Radio as we offer both national and local programs such as Faith in Action, Darnier Life Plan, Catholic Ministries Professional, Divine Mercy Chaplain, and Sunday Morning Mass. Please check out the Father the Facebook pages for Sue and Catholic Radio and Father Knows Best for more information about this show and more information about questions and answers that I've addressed and more information I've not addressed on the show. As we wrap up today's question and answer, we extend our heartfelt thanks to all of our listeners. And again, thanks for tuning in and for your thoughtful, evoking questions. Your curiosity and your freaking engagement make the show possible. We're always inspired by the incredible range of topics you bring to the table. We hope you'll found the answers both informative and enlightening, and that you'll carry some of the new insights as you go about your week. If your question wasn't answered today, you may hear your answer to your question next week. If you missed this episode or like re-listen to this other episode, please visit our website, Soulancatholic Radio.com, and visit the programs drop menu and click on local programs to find this episode, other episodes of Father Knows Best and other local programs. Again, if you have any questions, please send them to me at fatherknowsbest at yahoo.com. That's Father Knows Best Show at Yahoo.com, or mail them to Father Knows Best, Sioux Line Catholic Radio, 701 West Fifth Street, Sioux City, Iowa, 51103. And thank you to our sponsor, St. Augustine Indian Mission, Winnebago. Please join us again next Wednesday at 9 p.m. for another round of questions and answers. Until then, stay curious, stay faithful, keep your light shining, and keep those questions coming. For now, I'm Father Mark Stowe, your host, signing off. Wishing a great week ahead. May Mighty God bless you, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.