Underdog To Owner.From selling Cream Eggs at School to a multimillion pound logistics business !

In this episode of UNDERDOG TO OWNER, we sit down with BEN WELDON, a logistics business owner, to break down how he went from selling Cream Eggs at school to building a multi-million pound logistics business.

WHAT YOU’LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE:
How Ben got his first customers
The biggest mistakes he made early on (and what he’d do differently)
How he scaled operations and handled growth
The mindset shift from underdog to business owner
Advice for anyone starting a business from scratch



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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

If you give me two seconds of your time, I'd just like to say a message thank you for following me so far. This really can't be done without you, listen. So thank you. Welcome to Underduck to Owner Podcast, where we dive into inspiring stories from entrepreneurs and innovators. I'm your host, Paul Atkins, and today I'm excited to be joined by Ben Weldham, entrepreneur, co-founder of HBC Logistics. We'll explore his journey, the lessons he's learned, and the advice from anyone looking to succeed in business. Ben is a dynamic entrepreneur who's built from the ground up. This episode of Under Doctor Owner is sponsored by Romex Solution. If you're in a construction business and you'll know growth brings a new challenge, finding the right people to keep projects moving, one missing trade person can slow the entire site down. That's where Romex Solution comes in. Romac Solutions is a UK trade and labour agency, supplying skilled trades and reliable labour to construction companies that need to scale quickly, fill worth that or to pull a busy project. So instead of just about staffing, you can focus on delivering the job. If you need dependable work code on the site, RomacSolutions.co.uk to learn more about RAMSolutions, helping construction businesses, build, grow, and deliver. Thank you. First of all, how did we meet? That's the one I can remember.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

I'm just wondering if you How did we meet? It was um was it the first time in IV for it was, yeah. It was the first time in IV for wasn't it? It was the friends' friends was the friend's birth birthday, wasn't it? It was, yeah. Yeah. Um when was that? Five, six years ago, it was before the pandemic.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

It was before the pandemic, yeah. So 19, 18, 19. Yeah, yeah. It was just literally, I think, on the cuffs before you start your business. Yeah, it probably was, yeah. Because I remember speaking about it. Yeah. And then we had and then we had a and then we had a pandemic situation, so we were in London, didn't we? Ah, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

We did went to London, yeah, it was the backup plan, wasn't it? The guy tried taking your watch. Yeah. I do remember that very clearly. Yeah. Because I sold that watch a couple of weeks after.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Oh, did you? Yeah, because it should meet. Yeah, it should me up. Yeah. That's brilliant. I remember you coming in going, you know, and London's known for that. So, so yeah, but I was lucky I got it back. Yeah. That's funny, isn't it? Alfred, like obviously, um, with all my guests, you know, uh, you know, we talk we'll talk about um how we met and um but obviously most importantly is obviously this is about more about you. So for me, um your upbringing, you know, your your your childhood. Um what what was school like for you, you know?

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Um school, yeah, it was it was alright. I didn't I didn't particularly enjoy school that much as in the learning side of it, you know. You know, the um the kind of early school days, it was hard because of um because of these big things I've got on the side.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Oh yeah, yeah, kids can be cruel, can't they?

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Kids can be cruel, yeah. Um so at first it was kind of trying to fit in with those people and whatever else. Um and then when I went to high school, um yeah, it was look, I enjoyed it. I had a lot of friends in high school. Um say ap academically didn't do particularly well at all, but you know, um I'm sure when you do these podcasts more, you'll probably get similar stories. I I was the guy that sold the cream eggs, I was the guy that sold the crisps, I was the guy that sold the cigarettes, which I've got a funny story about. If you want to hear about that with me dad, yeah. Um but um yeah, grow yeah, school was yeah, I couldn't wait to leave school, couldn't wait to leave school. Um, you know, again the classic, you know, two paper rounds, yeah, selling things in school. I was an ice cream van uh ice cream man when I was 14. Oh, really? Yeah, really? Yeah, I was an ice cream man.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

How did you get involved in that?

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Um I think because I had the paper rounds, I always used to look at the jobs.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

So I had a morning round and an evening round. Um and I remember just always looking for jobs and I seen um the ice cream uh kind of business we're looking for people, and it wasn't far from where I lived, so I remember going down on my bike with the paper. Yeah, classic. I feel really old saying this.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

I know, I was telling you the other day.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Yeah, going going down with the paper, and and um like the two owners there, they had like one had a red jag, matching jags, a blue jag, like in a dirty old warehouse, ice cream stuff everywhere. And I just rocked up on my bike and said, look, you know, I really want a job. Um and yeah, they they took they took me on. Um and then on in at weekends they used to so I used to go there about six in the morning, stock all the ice cream vans up, and then they would take an ice uh an ice cream van with a trailer on the back as well. That ice cream van would take me to a place called New Brighton, which is like a um a promenade beach area, um, and drop me there at like nine in the morning, and then pick me up at like seven o'clock, eight o'clock at night.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Like Mr. Whippy, yeah. Mr. Whippy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Yeah, yeah, Mr. Whippy, yeah. Brilliant. Yeah, yeah, did that. Um yeah, so used to yeah, I did that for till I was about 16, I think. Oh right. So you started. It was a big sell with my mum because uh my dad in particular, because like when I was going through GCSEs, like I was always working. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I used to say to my mum and dad, like, you know, don't hey I'll I'll take my books and I'll learn. Nah.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Nah.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

No, maybe a little, but not not a lot. Uh yeah, not not a lot.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

To be fair, I was very similar to myself. I um I was always on market stalls. Um my my my stepdad had a market stall. Um with my mum, my mum used to sell baby clothes and never forget it. And every Saturday, Sunday, if I wasn't playing football, I'd be on the market stall. Any school holidays, I'd be grafting. Always grafting, like, you know, always wanted the money, you know, always, you know, kind of out early doors, like five in the morning, putting all these cold poles up, you know, was always working with my to be fair to my stepdad, the little thing he did give me was the work ethic. You know, I I would I would always say that I don't want to thank him for too much, but I'd definitely say that installed the work ethic in me, and very similar to yourself.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

It was, it was my mum actually, because my mum, mum and dad were childhood sweethearts, they were like together in high school, and then my dad went to the navy when he was 16. Uh I think they married when they were about I was born when they were 21, and they divorced a couple of years later. So my dad wasn't in my life for up until I was about 11. We still like you know, keep I used to see him every so often. You know, he was, you know, the Navy was the proper Navy, and then he was he went to Iraq and all these various places. Um so it was my mum really, it was just me and my mum, uh and my nan and granddad. My mum was an only child, and um, so it was my mum really, she you know, she'd work in the pub, she'd work in um she worked in shoe shop, she worked retail and stuff. And then um I think when I was 16, yeah, my first proper job, so to say, was Littlewoods, if you remember Littlewoods. Yeah, too. And me and my mum worked together there on the returns because we were quite like like returns back then was like if you got your receipt, when did you buy it? You can't have it, you can't have your money back. Ruthless, yeah, roofless, yeah. So me and my mum used to work that so it was it was more my mum, my dad brought the discipline side because when he came back, my mum and dad remarried and then had my sister. Wow, yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, no, a lot of people don't know. Yeah, they they remarried on Valentine's Day. Oh wow, that's pretty cool, and then had my sister, that's why there's a big age gap between me and my sister. Um, and um, yeah, so my dad was more the discipline, like when he came back, that was a shock. Like make your bed, yeah, you know, take your plate, military, military, military, military. Yeah, but um yeah, so yeah, no, that's good. It was early days were pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Yeah, little woods. So what what age was you at Little Woods?

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Uh Little Woods, I would have been 16. I think that's when you're allowed to wear, you know, paper rounds, ice cream stuff, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

It's crazy, isn't it? It's crazy that that that I I've kind of very similar again, you know, um, and I I imagine that we'll we'll go through how many how similar we are. Um but I I did the same. I I like left at 15 with no GCSEs and um and I got my job first ever job at a place called Leninwinner and I put and I put paper on a reel and it just rotated and that was my job. That was my job. I I think I got £40 a week and it was costing me £20 uh on a train. Yeah, uh but I just had to work, you know. My mum always said to me, if you're gonna leave school early, you work. Yeah, and I think that's something that I I've you know with my gals as well, and you know, uh uh making sure that that's installed in them. Um, you know, they're a little bit more privileged than I was, but but that install putting that in you, that work ethic, just drives you to where you are now. And I think that's I think it's a big thing in having, you know, especially with if your dad's a little bit stricter as well, it keeps you keeps you regimented as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah, he did. He kee he kept me, he kept me very regimented. The uh the cigarette story because my mum and dad smoked, and my dad was in um he used to work in Belgium when he came off the ships, so he'd do two weeks on, two weeks off, and then back then he'd come home the back of the car from France, fags, booze, and whatever else. I always remember his wardrobe, you know, um you know he used to sell it to friends and family and stuff like that. And I was selling the the cream eggs, the crisps, and various things, and then when I got to like kind of 15 people in school were smoking, right? But I never at the time I never smoked, but in school I never smoked, and then I thought people are selling vags in school. So I then started nicking a pack a day, added that to the portfolio of things, so to say, and um that was the only time my dad ever laid hands on me. He clocked that the fags were going, and I remember walking in from school and he just he collared me against the wall, scruffed the neck, didn't didn't do anything bad, just scruff of the neck, lifted me up and said, You know, are you fucking stealing the fags? Are you smoking? Let me smell you. And because he'd like gripped me out, I couldn't talk. Um, and then he eventually clocked. I said to him, like, I said, Dad, Dad, I'm I'm selling them like the cream eggs. And I remember him just slowly letting me go down the wall, and he looked at my mum, and they both looked at each other and he went, So you're selling the fags in school? And I went, Yeah, I promise I'm not smoking. You can smell me, you can you can do whatever you want. And he went, Right, go and have your dinner, we need to have a chat. And then after that, it was like uh, well, you can have X amount of day. I'll bring extra it was he kind of encouraged it in a way. I love that, but I never really got in trouble. I think once in school I got I got in trouble for it. Um you know, the classic, you know, the blazer cut with everything in. That's it. Uh I say in trouble, it was yeah, it was it was minor, but yeah, then we had a bit of a system. Avon, I used to do the Avon as well. Avon, yeah. So I had four, yeah. My mum did the Avon, me and my mum. Remember the catalogues. That's it. We used to make a fortune off.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, having that that many jobs, and obviously it kind of leads you to where again, where we are.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

It must be, yeah, because I don't really talk about this stuff, but you know, when I was thinking about it when we were, you know, arranged to meet, and I was like, well, that must have something to do with it's got to you you where I am.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

I was I mean I've started listening to a lot of like podcasts myself and um and listening to entrepreneurs, you know, and and the brain they they just say it doesn't it works differently from everyone else in business. For me, I wouldn't say I'm a businessman. No, probably the E word that you just used.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Yeah, the entrepreneur. Yeah, people say it, yeah. Again, that's one of the things that makes me a bit uptight.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

It's like well it's it it's like a craft, and they that this guy explained it really, really well. Uh and I went to Kate last night and I was like, see, I'm not crazy. Because I you think you're crazy where you've got all these ambitions and ideas, they just constantly I can't sit still. I'm I'm like, I could do that, I could do that, I could do that, and it's like it's like spotlights constantly in my head going bang, baby bang. Chip shop and i beefer. There we go. And that's that's a great example. I mean we're talking we'd talk about that as well. I mean Chip Shop and I beefer. But it but it's it it you're people don't understand is that and they say the exactly the entrepreneur word, but it's the method behind it or the craziness behind it is that for me, my brain is going a thousand times since I've since I've stopped working, um I've tried to buy so many things and look at so many different businesses and um what's the best opportunity, what's the less risk. You know, risk is a big thing, um but if you don't take risk, you you don't there's no gain really. So m for me, I think a businessman I'd employ a businessman. Does that make sense? You we're talking about staff and you employ people, don't you, that uh are good uh and better than you. They should be. They should be better than you or clever than you at what they do, yeah. At what they do. Exactly. So but going back, we'll go back on that. But I just uh yeah, I was listening to it, it just came to me when we was just talking about it. But the fish and chip shop, I mean, that's prime example, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah, that was that was a mistake now looking looking back, and you know, we got mutual friends that were involved in that. The concept was right. Um the execution yeah, it was pretty it was pretty good to be fair. Um we got very unlucky with the COVID situation. Yeah, the COVID and and we launched and then the Brexit thing had really kicked in where you know normal everyday Brits can't just go abroad now. Like you know, I I used to work in Tenerife with the lads and you can't do that now. Um but the big thing that killed it was was was Putin and the the war in Russia because the a lot of the cod was coming from Russia. I didn't know so the price of cod went up and the gas and electric. That was that was another big thing. Yeah, yeah, that was another big thing that that that killed it. Really? Yeah, that was that was probably what tipped it over. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, it was a contributing factor, yeah. It's a good location, mate. The location was perfect if you know iBefer and you know the egg roundabouts and the pasha shop.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Yeah, I I imagine a lot of listeners would know about everyone knows the egg roundabout in San Antonio.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

So location-wise, you know, there was a hotel above, it just been that was another factor as well, why we started it. It's just been renovated, but it was delayed a bit because of COVID. And it was a British hotel, even though it was all inclusive. The thought was, well, they'll want something different rather than just you know the all-inclusive food. Um, yeah, so yeah, I think we were, I think you said about execution. I think you know, looking back, you'd always do things a bit differently because we we did in such a short space of time. And when you looked at the shop, you know, and again, some people think when you start a business, let's get brand new this, brand new that, the the counter. I went to Blackburn and found one on eBay and it was five grand. Right. It was it was five grand. It was you know, it was in pieces. I've still got pictures of it. It was in pieces on the floor. I sent it to the lads and they were like, Are you fucking sure? And I'm like, Well, it it I'm I don't know what a fryer is. He tells me it's in good nick because I was in transport, I could get it over there, you know. But you know, some people think, you know, well, let's buy brand new brand new, but we didn't, didn't you? And and we got it over there, and you know, the boys over there have obviously got contacts and they they they got it in and they changed the shape of it and they reused bits and added bits, and it it was five grand that five and you remember the shop, it looked like I do yeah, it was it was lovely. It was whiffed on it.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

You would never have known. No, you would have known and and like the location was prime. I mean, like you said, your network out there, you know, we know them. They're um so their the network's right.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Yeah, it was just literally I think it was just timing, we were just unlucky. I think a bit bit just just a bit unlucky, yeah. So what happened? So what happened? Did you did you just sold it? Yeah, we we sold it just in time. And did you make it? Was it a loss? Yeah, there was a loss, yeah. There was a loss. Um but it could have been a lot worse. A learning curve. It was definitely a learning curve.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

You get them on the way. I think uh I I've had a few myself, but um you sit there and you kind of go, well, if it was now, you'd probably be a little bit more. And also, you need luck.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

You do need a bit of luck. You do, yeah, you do. And uh look, if that was my first venture, you know, I just I wouldn't have done it. You know, it was it was one of them, you know, me and the lads have been talking for some time about, you know, we've got similar interests, you know, running different businesses, we you know, we get on. Yep. Um, which is not all also a good recipe. If you're friends with someone in business, that that can that can be hard as well. But we I think even through the tough times, you know, we were yeah, we we we didn't fall out. No, no, we didn't we didn't fall out. And and even, you know, to the point where it came to the sale, again, a lot of people don't know this. Um, you know, there was the people involved, there was a there was an equal split. Brilliant. But again, there's everyone has a different role. Without going into detail, everyone has a different role in maybe putting more in than others. And even when it comes to the sale, because we were mates, we were like, look, we'll take the hit equally in terms of how how it how it was. So you know, um Yeah, I know I know that. Quite easily, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, they're very close with with both, and quite easily they could have gone, well, you know, that's my share. Yeah, that's my loss, that's my share, that's my loss, but they didn't.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

And that's really rare. Very rare. That's really rare. Because I think over a pound note, people are funny, you know, and and I think experiences again is that I've experienced you know the change in people when you do, you know, I I've never had anything all my life, and I don't really like talking about what I've got and what I haven't got, but um I think that that is a yeah, very rare, like it's very, very that could have broke a friendship, yeah, 100%. But there was never in any doubt of that. No, and do you think that's a lesson learned as well where you go into business with friends as well?

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Yeah, even even with some of my staff now at HBC over the years, you know, um you you get very, very close to them, and I've got friends now at work, and you know, again, probably we'll talk about it, but there was yeah, what you you've got to be careful how close you get to staff. That's one thing I've changed over the past few years is I'm still close, yeah, but not yeah, not too close because um yeah, there was a scenario where it got a bit difficult at HBC at one point, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

So going back to obviously your earlier years, obviously um you went at Tenerife, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

So you you'd left school, you'd done his jobs.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Left school, went to college, failed at college, yeah, tried to get into kind of sport. That this is how uneducated I am. Yeah. When I went to college, it was a very uh relaxed type of college. Um, not one of the better ones. Um, and it was sports science, and I remember failing the first kind of module, and the um the teacher there, he he was he was great. Um it was only a small class, maybe 20, and about half of us failed. And I never forget when we went to resit, he had like a white board, and he wrote A equals one. It was all multi-choice questions. Right. And he wrote them down on the board, flipped the board over and walked out, and he said, But no one can get a hundred percent. If you get a hundred percent, I'll fail you. Yeah? And I thought I'm sitting there. Classic me, not paying attention. Oh no. So got the first three or four right, and then the fifth question I wrote, I skipped the answer. So I got it in the wrong order. Right. I was the only person that failed, and the answers were on the board. Oh no. The answer was on the board, so not paying attention. I had the answers literally Wow and he came in, hands on his head, he's like, Oh my god, I fucking wrote the answers down, and you felt I can't I can't not change it now. Oh so I had to I could have stayed on, but I would never have passed. So then yeah, I I finished college and kind of done various other bits of um no, that's no, I kept when I left college, uh that would have been 17. Right. Um and my dad said, right, military. Did he? Yeah. A lot of people don't know. I was in the military. Um and he said go in the RAF, better paid, and you get looked after a bit. So me and my pal, we um we joined joined the RAF. Um went through the training past that, and I was going through the kind of trade training. Um, and then that's when my mum got unwell, which you you know about. Um yeah, she got she uh she got seriously seriously unwell with terminal cancer, so I I came out the RAF against my mum my mum's wishes, but I didn't 18? No, I was 18, yeah. I was 18 when I came out the RAF. Uh they did leave the door open and there was there was maybe half a thought of going back, but what was going on with with my mum at home? I uh yeah, I just got a job as a delivery driver. Um and just to make ends meet, and then then my It was difficult times, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

It was, yeah. It was and someone that you obviously like myself um look up to and a bit of a role mod well, massive role model in your life. And that hole is never you know, never and even now you can tell, you know, how much it means, even talking about it from how long ago it was. And um, if you don't mind me asking, it's obviously from the minute your mum found out to the minute she passed. How long was how long was she fighting?

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Uh so it was around 15, 16, which she got six months to live. Um she did have cancer previous to that, which we thought she'd overcome, but again yeah misdiagnosed, let's say. Um but she lived about just after her 40th birthday. She she put she passed away.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

So young. So so young. And and so and and the thing is we with the cancer, I mean, there's so many people that we know, you know, um, and it's just it it's just cruel. It's just cruel. And being so young, Ben, is it it that doesn't help either.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

No, it doesn't it's never easy, no matter what age you are, but being so young is well it's mad like because death, like, it's horrible for anyone, and you know, uh you even you know it's coming, someone tells you that that person is going to die, it still doesn't make it any easier. One one bit to someone dropping dead to I agree spending time. It's probab looking back, it's probably for me it's probably worse because you look back at it now and think, well, could I have not gone out that night? Could I have not seen my mates that night? Could I have not gone to football that night? So there's a little bit that does eat up in you and think, well, you know, but I do remember like my mum saying like you know, even when she got really ill there was there was a there was a party on one of my mates' birthdays, and I'm like, oh I'm not gonna go, and she like very firmly told me that I was to go, you know. Back then it was I don't know how I used to do it, even in Tenerife, but it was Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And she used to say you you still go, you don't change don't change what you're doing. Um yeah, so yeah, it was tough one. Hard time.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

I was 19, 19 and as no age at all, and obviously your mum being so young as well, as no age either. It's just it honestly it's one of the coolest. Um I don't even it's hard to explain because I'm I've been in the same situation. And my my mum was I I mean I was a little bit older than you, I think I was 23. So around that area at the time. And like you say, uh even now, I mean I accept you accept it, but it there's there's part there's part of you that's missing and you'll never get it back. You know, is and I think that's the best way to explain it is that you'll never get that m that full how you felt then, you'll never get that back. Time helps, and we talk about like people come to me quite a lot, you know, because obviously experiences, and you always say, just give it time, you know. You I can't give you any words of wisdom. This is about how you deal with it and time. Um I think that's the only advice you can, you know. It's it's it it it's it's difficult, it's really it's a really difficult subject, it's a really everyone deals with grief totally different. Um there isn't a one, you know, you know, a book that how you should deal with it. Um and yeah, I think yeah, look, like I say, but you've obviously you never stopped thinking about her, and um that will never happen. You can tell by even even your expressions, but obviously after after that you go back in?

SPEAKER_00 25:18

No, didn't join the RAF. Um I kind of as I said I became a delivery driver, and then it was uh one of my customers I used to deliver to. Do you remember Churchill's the Northern Dog, the insurance company? Oh yes. They um they had their own repair centres, um, and there was a job going there, so uh got on really well with them. Took a job, took a job there. Um that's when my dad moved to um to Spain from from there. So that was tough because you know I was I was on my own then. My nan and granddad were still around, they were like my mum and dad as well. Um, but again, because you know, just salary money was was tight living on my own, um, and it was about an hour's drive, so then there was fuel, so I moved to a place called um Windsford, which is like by crew, which is where it was based. So it was say about 45-50 minutes from where I grew up. Um, but I thought that was the right thing to do because of money, but I was on my own. I hated it. Right, yes, and so far after you know, so short after losing losing my mum, and uh I lived there for about four months and then managed to to broom share with one of my pals to make ends meet. So I just kind of travelled. Um I was in a I was in probably my first relationship then that broke down, and I always wanted to go traveling. Um so when that relationship broke down, I think I was 20 and um I thought right it's now or now or never. So um I kind of planned the whole Australia thing with all the lads, uh handed my notice in at work. Um and then yeah, the the the big boss of that company, it was there was a lot of scousers and um mangs. Right. He was like a proper mank that hated like hated scousers. Yeah, you guys don't get on. But yeah, I don't think it's you see it in the football world, yeah, yeah, in football world. And it's I don't know if it is as bad now. I think it with some of my mates it is, but it I just couldn't really see it back then. But he hated me. But because I'd planned the Australia trip for the summer, it was around January. Right. Um so I put my notice in for like five months. Yeah. One to help my boss out, my supervisor, because it was quite a specialist role in parts and stuff, um, to give him a bit of time to get a replacement, and I handed the notice in. Um, and then two days later, oh no, nice. And he went, Um, you know I don't like you. Really? Yeah, and I'm sat there, I was only 19, 20, or whatever. You know, I was trying to bite my lip, I could have very easily just gone back, but I didn't. And um he said, You're leaving today. And I said, But I can't leave today, I'm not going until summer. And he went, Well, good for you, but bad for me is because you've put it in and right and it's been accepted, we have to pay you until your notice period. Oh right. So I kind of paused and went, So I'm leaving today. He went, Yeah. And I said, You're paying me for five months. Oh. And he went, yeah. And I just went, yeah. Thanks, mate. Got up, went downstairs. My boss, my but my supervisor was fuming. So I had five five months off. So dream. Um, yeah, I was just, you know, I start I I started going to car auctions, buying and selling cars a bit, and then um one of my best mates in Liverpool, his uncle is Nigel Brown, who we both know, right? Yeah. Um, who I now call Uncle. And uh again, he said, Well, look, you've got the stop gap. He owns a bar in Tenerife. Why don't you go to Tenerife until you go to Australia? So I went, good idea. So I went to Tenerife. He, my mate Docco and came with me, and we went on a two-week holiday. I got settled in, and Nigel sorted me out a job, and that's that's how I ended up in in Tenerife and obviously met you know, George Lynx and James and uh obviously Nigel Ross. Yeah, and they were all you know, all Ricky met Ricky there, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, that's how the friendship formed with with Ricky, and um yeah, so I was there for I think it was it was about five months, and then when the when the Australia thing came, it was around the July time, you know, well into the summer of Tenerife, I was loving it. And I didn't want to go because there were six lads going to Australia, six became five, four, yeah, yeah, and then there was only two of us that went, so but it was all paid for. Oh, okay. So I thought I'll go and see how it goes. So I went to Australia, still in the party vibe, still in the party mood, and I lasted about six weeks in Australia. I had a 12-month visa, but I lasted. And why was that? Uh ran out of money. Yeah, so it was just partying, we bought a car, we did quite a lot of good stuff in that time, you know. We Where'd you go? We so we started at Sydney and I finished in Brisbane. That's as far as I got. So between there, um, and then when the money ran out. Uh I remember we were staying in like private ish hostels, and because the money was running out, we got to Brisbane and we were in this big massive one, and it was like 40 people like shagging and farting and whatever else. I was like, I can't stay here. Yeah, it's not a bit of me. Uh went down uh to the the hostel and said, like, is there any jobs? And they said, Yeah, yeah, it's a really good job sweeping a warehouse. And I went, I can't fucking sweep a warehouse. No disrespect to like I just you know um and I went back to my mate and I said I'm going. Um uh the lads uh Dan and Spud and that you know my best mates, they said, Look, that there's a job here, come back, you we've got we've got a bed. So literally that morning I went straight to Emirates, I had an open ticket and said, Tenerife, please, and went Singapore. Quickly went home, seen my dad and granddad, and then back to Tenerife, and I was there for two and a half years after that. Just give or take. What just working behind a bar? Yeah, so I worked in Leonardo's with Dan and Spud for a bit. Leonardo's, yeah. And then that's when I started playing football with George, George and James and Licks, um, and um got got very palli with them, and um uh James probably regrets it now. James, hello, but he saw something in me and said, You need to come and work behind the bar at Linaker's, yeah, and that that was the job then, like you know, yeah, and probably at best a two out of ten, but as soon as you put a Linaker's t-shirt on, you were just you were just like something else. So I worked behind the bar at at Linaker's um and then did that for about I think it was about six months. Um and then that's where everyone knew Linakers, it was the bar to go. That was that was wicked, and then I came home for a a few months between Jan and March. Um, and then that's when uh Nigel called me up and said that there's an opportunity with bonkers because bonkers had closed and they were gonna move it to what people know as pressure island, yeah. And he said, come back and you can and you can run it. Right. Um yeah, run the uh run the bark. So he went back, went back, yeah, and ran uh ran bonkers for a year, yeah. Uh and then again I was in another relationship, decided to come back to the UK properly, didn't really settle. Um then spoke to Spud, I'd say my best mate, one of my best mates now, he was running it, and Nigel was Nigel was Nigel and said, look, the DJ's going. Spud's obviously running it now. You two are very close. We come and come and be the DJ. Yeah, so went back very excited. I was only with Nigel last week, actually, at the football. We um we we had a bit of a fallout, quite a big fallout, which we've we we spoke about years ago and sorted out obviously because we've been very close since. But we actually, it's the first time we've been one to one and we had yeah, yeah, yeah. He he he was um he was going through a Nigel time. That's probably for a story for him. You should get our money if he'd have some stories.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

He's clever to have more than two hours, though.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

I was about to say he can he can talk, but he's um and went back and uh yeah, me and Nigel had a bit of a a bit of a spat, let's say. So um I was only there a month. That was that was quite a tough time because you know I'd kind of dropped everything again to go back. Um and you know, the boys were that they were very good to me, in particular, James. Yeah, again, um James's annoying mate, as he will call it, right? Um I remember he probably um baffles himself now why he's still we're still mates, but he was very good to me then, very, very good. Like, because he didn't agree with kind of that situation that went on. Tried to convince me to stay. Um there was another guy, Chris. Remember Chris that run what was the bar? Um I forget Chris's surname. No, I don't know. You will know Chris. Will I? Yeah. Um he was also very, very good, but yeah, because it was quite a sour situation, we just said, look, we'll go back. I was I say I was with a partner then, we went back to Birmingham. Oh, you went back, yeah? Yeah, went back to Birmingham, um, and then that's when I got into logistics.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Yeah, and and like I say, I mean, to explain to people like and I mean including myself is logistics. So explain to me what is logistics I've got.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Yeah, um it's strange because my my new owners now kind of call me Mr. Mr. Same Day, Mr. Mr. This, and I keep saying, Whoa, like don't call me that. There's all there's all for logistics has grown massively over the past kind of probably 10 years more or so. Um there's there's you know, specifically what we do is same day dedicated transport. That's what we started. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but you've got your traditional overnight parcels and pallet network stuff that we do, dedicated loads, storage and fulfillment now is growing, growing rapidly, where businesses will store with the logistics company and they handle the whole kind of supply chains from goods coming from the Far East. We'll unpack them in, put them on pallets, wrap them, put them in, put the infantry in, put them on the system. Um, then the orders come through and then we pick, pack, and distribute out. Um yeah, so there's there's all there's all kinds of how did you how did you even get into that then? So like so that was from the Tenerife when I could come back. I always liked driving, don't know why, but um I've always just liked driving. So when I come back, I um obviously I needed to get a job, so I thought, oh I'll I'll look at taxi driving. So I looked at taxi driving and I was 24. Right. And you needed to be 25. Right. So that ruled that out. Right, yeah. And then I seen a courier driver ad. So I applied for that. That was in Liverpool. We moved to Liverpool and um did the interview. And he said, How old are you? And said, Oh, I'm 24. Uh he said, How old are you? Yeah, said I'm I'm 24. And he said, Oh, you need to be 25 with the insurance. He said, When are you 25? And it was maybe six months, something like that. Uh and he said, Oh, I can't I can't take you on, I can't insure you. No, and I was gutted. Yeah, I bet. And I remember leaving. And the next day I went back, drove back, um, and I just pleaded and said, Look, I'll be I'll be really good. I said, You can take more money, there must be a way to insure me. And um, yeah, they they liked me and said okay, and and they paid them extra to insure me. Yeah, because I went I went back. Um so I started as a parcel courier driver in Liverpool. Um, it was a company called Fastway Couriers. Um, yeah, did that. I wasn't doing around for about six months, and then a warehouse supervisor uh warehouse job came up, and again I started doing that bit of driving, bit of warehouse, then just kind of progressed with that company there. Yeah, yeah. Again, cliche classic story of I was a courier driver. Yeah. Um even saying it now when I talk to some people, I do like some of the staff go, of course you will. Of course you were, of course you will, of course you were.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Or they only see what you've got. And that's that that they don't see. They only see what you've got, they don't see they don't see this, they don't hear this, they you know that they will, but they they they don't understand that they've never asked, probably some of them, but it it's it's it's exactly the same as me. Learn from the bottom, you know, and and kind of you are where you are now. So obviously you're then doing the warehouse, you're in the warehouse.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Uh how long was you in there for?

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Did that again for another six months, and again the partner at the time I had uh she was from Birmingham. Right. Um, she wasn't settling in Liverpool, nope. And then a branch opened in Birmingham. Um again, because it was a franchise business, it wasn't like you could progress or transfer. But the um the Master franchise here, Fastway, uh, kind of said to the owners of Birmingham, um, look, there's this guy that wants to move to Birmingham, he's he's he's he's pretty good. He you know, he he can drive, he can warehouse, he could probably progress through, he knows the ins and outs. And when this when these franchises started, you'd only have like maybe two or three of the master franchise people come in to tell them what to do. Yeah. So no one really knew the systems or how the operation worked, and they kind of I wouldn't say forced him, but said, look, you've got to take him. So I went down and had an interview, and he said, Right, okay, you can be a courier and we'll see where it goes. And I was like, But I've I've kind of I was I think I was a supervisor or something, but it was only a very small operation, right? I said, I've got more, a bit more to give, but look, I want to move to Birmingham, I'll earn my stripes again and I'll become a courier. Yeah, and I remember the I started on the first day when the operation went live, and it was just madness. It was it was the biggest one at the time, it was the biggest. Again, not as big as what I run now, but it was it was four times as big as what I was used to in Liverpool, and I could just remember it was just chaotic. They had all these managers and supervisors, and the owner uh who bought the franchise was uh someone I'd like to talk about. Was uh he he was from uh IBM, like really high, wealthy man that risked everything to buy this franchise. Um so there was managers, and I was like, Oh my god, this is fucking mental. So um for two weeks I just was sorting things out, and I never forget um it was a lunch time, and and Peter, the guy I was talking about there, he came down, he was like uh he came down, he went, What are you doing? I said, Oh, I'm just sorting customer service, I was sorting the runs out, you know, this, this, this, and this. He went, Brian Ploy was a courier. Why aren't you a courier? Why aren't you out? You need to go out. And I was like, Oh, okay. And tail between my legs, just just there was there was a route on the floor, there was a spare van. I jumped in the van and went out, and I was a bit disheartened. I was really disheartened. I bet. Because I'd just done two weeks with so many people and whatever else, it would, you know. I'm I'm not saying I was the saviour, but no, but you helped. I definitely helped, and people were saying like they would have been screwed if I wouldn't have been there. So I went out, and then the next morning I came in, just kept myself to myself, did a run all the managers, like these ops managers and all these people that were a lot older than me. I was only 25, maybe. No, I was a bit older, maybe 27. Um I'm like, you can't go out. I need to help with this. I don't know what I'm doing, and I said, But look, Peter's come down. And then um one of the um master franchisee staff, like one of the area managers, said like Ben, what the fuck are you doing? You I said, Well, Peter's told me I'm a courier, so I'm a courier. I loaded my van up and literally I never forget it when to drive out. And then Peter ran out the office and stood in front of the van and went, Stop. And I was like, You alright? He said, Can you just pull the van up and come up to my office? Um, yeah, anyway, but I've boring everyone too much. Went up, went up to his office and he was super apologetic. He said he didn't realise what I was doing without what I was doing, his business, and the operation would have been screwed. Obviously, head office must have got said something to him. Uh, I think I was on about 20 grand then as a courier. And he said, Um look, he apologised and he said, Look, I want you to be this, I can't remember what the title was, some kind of franchise manager, but still help with the operation. And he said, I'm gonna give you 25 grand a year and a bit of a fuel allowance. Five grand then was literally like massive. I was like, I look, I was like, Wow, thank you. And he and from there, like me and him just got on like house on fire, and I just very quickly went bum, bum, bum, bump. And did you learn much from him? A huge amount. He was he was um a big inspiration to me, and unfortunately another victim of the dreaded. He was 40, early 40s, I think. Um again, my relationship broke down. He lived in Reading, he had like an apartment in Birmingham, he'd stay there a couple of days a week and travel. Um, I had nowhere to live. He said I could go and live there, right? Rent-free. Nice in the spare room, nice. Um, you know, I but you know, back then I would, you know, I don't my wife will lack laugh at this. I don't eat particularly well. I I'm a bit better. Yeah, I'm a bit better now, but like fruit and veg and stuff. And like Peter, he like started to force me to eat decent meals because I just eat takeaways all the time. Um and he was he was inspirational for me. He was uh, you know, he was a really good man. Yeah, he was someone like Square Peg Roundhole with me. He was like so profess, you know, he was on you know six-figure salaries at IBM and looked after Russia and Ukraine and and here's me just this yeah, this kid behind just looking after his business, you know. I was his I was his ops manager, then I was his number two. Um and um yeah, you say about inspirational stuff, he he was the first geezer that sat down to me and said, like, what do you want to do? Where do you want to be? What do you want? And I said the the Range Rovers had just come out and say it was 27 or whatever. I said I'd really one day want a Range Rover. That's that's it. And he kind of gave me a bit, well, you know, you've got to work hard and all the usual stuff. And a couple of days later, I came in and on my desk was a little toy Range Rover with a bow on it. Yeah. Which I've still got on my desk. Have yeah. Still got on my desk now. Again, very brilliant, corny, cheesy type story. But it's on my desk now. And he said, if you want your Range Rover, here you go. Put it, put it on my desk. This little toy Range Rover.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

That's that's crazy. But and and we like going on that is we were I was gonna get to that as uh out of business, in business, would you say he was the most influential in your in your journey?

SPEAKER_00 44:42

I think he he was he was the one that gave me the chance. Yeah, you know, there was no interview, there was no, well, it was to be a courier driver, there was no CV, what were your grades, what were you know, no um, you know, none of that. He, you know, I learned so much from him because you know, he he you know, he he was in a very big job, as I said, and he yeah, again, I've never talked about no this. So, but I would probably say he was. Yeah. He he was the one that that that you know, just that little thing with the car and whatever else kind of maybe installed something in me to say, well, one day you could have you could run a logistics firm or you could build a logistics firm maybe.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Um it's it's it's mad how those little things that you do remember and but you I mean forget, but you remember really is that I had the same kind of like I didn't have a mentor, I didn't have anyone that I ever probably ever looked at. I think that was the bit that was missing. Um, but I did have a dream and I remember going to my business partner, like, one day we'll have Range Rovers. You know, I'll never forget that, and that was all I ever focused on, you know, and I and I and I I really did focus on that. Like, you know, I wanted it, I wanted it, I wanted it, I wanted it. Now I look back now, does it really matter? No, because I'm a lot older and a lot wiser, but it was my folk, it was my focus to get me there.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

Yeah. Um but it was the same when you were saying about in school with the cream eggs. I really wanted a scooter, I really wanted the bear gous, I really wanted the rock board, the scouses, and we couldn't afford it. No, we just couldn't afford it. Um so yeah, it drives you.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

It it it drives you drives you to I totally agree, but and you know what? I I I talk about it obviously um with my wife quite a lot and friends, you know, like about my experiences of how like I used to think all the time I want this, I want that, and things used to start appearing, and I know it's a really weird thing to say, a bit corny, but I I kind of I started listening to a lot of podcasts or a lot of and uh uh audiobooks, and I listened to The Secret. And from my experiences, you know, I I set up my business and I sent out um uh letters every week, and I and then look, you know, and I'll openly admit that I'm massively dyslexic and um you know reading and writing was always hard, really hard for me. And um I used to send out these letters, I'd love to I'd love to get one of those letters now. And I used to send them out, I'd love to read what it is, and I used to send them out every week while I was working for another business, and I'd send them out constantly hundred letters, hundred letters, hundred letters, and my wife would help me, we'd get stamps and we'd bump and we'd send them off, and then one day we got a bite, and then we got another bite, and then we got another bite. And then we forwards out onto 13 years later, and I had a handwritten letter on my PC. Uh, and I never you don't open your own mail. It's a real weird thing, isn't it? I mean you stop opening your own mail, and uh I uh and it was my it was it was a letter and it was a broker for offering to buy my business or wanted to meet me meet the person to buy the business. And I'll never forget it. I wouldn't have opened that letter if it weren't handwritten. And I and everyone asks me about advice, and I always give them that that advice. I always say, handwrite a letter, and they go, Yeah, but those days are gone. I go, they're not, they're really not gone. I said I think it's probably one of the most underrated ways of how to start a business is handwritten letters inside it doesn't need to be handwritten, but the the envelope needs to be handwritten because people will think it's personal, so they open it up.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

I think that'll come back around again. I think I have that cycle is gonna come back around because now obviously with AI and everything now, you can kind of it probably helps the likes of me and you because I'm similar to you in terms of um spelling and various other things, but it's now glaringly obvious that if you were to send me an email from AI, I'd go, fuck off it. Oh, you've not read that. Same for me, but I think that I think that cycle come around, and even talking to some of our customers now, it's you know, I it look, there's obviously um there's obviously a place for AI and stuff, yeah. But I I I do believe from a sales cycle I talked to the sales team recently because he started using AI, and I'm like, don't rob, don't just just stick stick to it.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Yeah, a lot. Yeah, and and and I think that's that's true. I mean, I I have to use AI and I'm glad it's about it's really good for me because my spelling is atrocious. Yeah, and I mean I get I get the blocks where I can't even think, you know, and my reading's a lot better than it's ever been. Um and I've learned that myself, you know, no one's ever taught me that. Um it was more sink or swim. Yeah, you know, like I've got to learn a PC. You know, imagine imagine I was an engineer, a bit like yourself, you know, you're working in working in a van, and then suddenly you've got a PC stuck in front of you and you've got to then be good at that. You know, you've got all these emails that are coming in, you've got people, you know, it you have to adapt. Um, and I think that's something that I I had to adapt. Um, and again, we'll touch on this, is that using people, you know, my one of my strengths is people, you know. Like if you said to me, you know, what's your super strength, you know, what you know, your your power, and I go, Well, people, you know, I'm I like working with people, and I that that's for me. So, like, I I have a lot of smarter people around me um that yeah, and and and and and I think that's what we touch on. But going back to logistics and you then go in, right, you you're now what was it, a uh franchise? It was a franchise, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

Peter, yeah. So yeah, um that kind of next step then from Peter was um that relationship broke down. I still had the relationship in Liverpool. Liverpool was really struggling. Um and the two owners up there, ironically called Dave and Steve, which were my partners at HBC, they said, uh look, we'll bring you in as a as a director, we'll give you 20%, but it's failing. We've got six months. So it was like, you know, it was it was mad. So, but because I was at kind of on a bit of a radar with head office, the master franchise, you couldn't, it was frowned upon to take a franchisee's member of staff to the master franchise because then say you're the franchisee and I'm working at head office and I take your best guy or girl, you'd be like, What the fuck? You can't do that. You can't do it, yeah. So I spoke to him about it because I was very close with the um with the MD, and he said, Look, he said it'll be a great opportunity. He said, Go and take that. If it fails, we will take you into head office because that will gain your experience there of trying to turn it round. And I was like, But look, if it fails, yeah, come and work for you. People go, and they said, No, we'll people know Liverpool is failing within the network now, so that it'll be hopefully a positive that you went to try and help, even if it didn't work. So anyway, I I moved so relationship broke down, moved back to Liverpool. Um, well, I no, I I dotted between. I lived with my dad on on the sofa uh Monday, Thursday, and I still kept my my my place in Birmingham and travelled travelled back to Birmingham because I that was kind of home then. So went up to Liverpool, became a director, and again, long story short, um managed to managed to turn it turn it round. Um again, it was just bits that I'd learned from Birmingham, bits about what they were not doing. And it was again, I was only kind of 28, 29, maybe, and these guys were late 40s, early 50s looking at me going, but like, you know, can you replicate what you've done in Birmingham here? Um yeah, and there was no It's pretty impressive though. When you sit back and it's mad when you look back and say, don't talk talk about it, but again, that's being so young. Yeah, yeah, and and again it was nothing, you know. I don't I don't think I did anything, you know, kind of strategy or business plan. Never did any of that. Even the business plan with HBC, which we'll talk about, was on paper. Um I think it was the people thing. I just one you talk about people that inspired me. Do you do do you remember Christian Lee? Did you meet Christian Lee as he's known in Tenerife? So he used to uh I forget Lee's name, um, but he was a Georgian Georgian Lynx know who he is, and he had like a place, and he was um you know, bang on it in Tenerife, then just found God, and then had we used to play pool there. It was by the McDonald's, we used to play pool, and Lee used to used to run it and you know, play pool and you know, um even have a drink and have a party, but he didn't drink, and then it try and talk to you about God. But in a very it's like me and you becoming Christians now, we wouldn't be like, oh we can talk about it in a way, and that's what he did. And I remember him saying, like, you'd be good at sales. Um, and then yeah, when I went to Liverpool, I said, like, what what what you're doing with the sales, we need to grow the sales, uh, and in and in logistics that you know you have a trailer of parcels going to a hub, which then goes somewhere else, and it was it was not even half full. I said, We need to fill it, we need to fill it, and they said, Well, we can't. I said, Well, how are you doing it? And they, you know, and I just said, Look, well, we need to drop a bit price there, yeah. And it was it was again, we'll fast forward it a bit, but it's kind of against how I sell now. But at the time it was price, it was just undercutting. Yeah, because it was that maybe the strategy was, well, we're gonna go bust. So instead of selling it for five pounds a parcel, we'll sell it four pounds fifty a parcel. Because if we fill the trunk, it's just money that's going on the trunk. More, more, it's just revenue going on the trunk. And that's what I did. So we went round, I went round to all these opportunities that we hadn't won and said, Well, what have we got to do to win your business? Well, you need to be cheaper. Okay, we're cheaper. Let's go. Bang, and then we filled the trunk, and then the trunk became two. Uh so that that's kind of how we we got.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

There's a lesson there. Yeah, there is a lesson. I I like you know, some people say don't uh you know, price yourself to the bottom. Um, but you were failing.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

That scenario scenario. And again, more people that probably have been in that situation. That's not that's not the only solution to to get out of it. You're in trouble. But that at that time that's a dig deep, that is. It was. Well, everything was all the costs were fixed. Yes. The warehouse was fixed, the people were fixed, the trunk, and it was just running fresh air. So if you put money on it, then yes, the margin's a bit less. Well, there was no strategy. No. No. It was just that was the scenario we were in. And maybe because it was do or die, that it was like, well, again, looking back on it now, it's like, well, nothing to lose. Like, no, you know, just gotta just gotta go and sell and and and that's what we did. And yeah, it it it it turned round.

SPEAKER_01 56:00

That was over about a give me two seconds of your time. Again, thank you for your help. This really makes a big difference and truly can't be done without you. I've been overwhelmed by the support given so far. Please, if I can ask one thing, is the following share. We all know that mental health is a massive part in all of our lives, and I know most of you have probably had to deal with it in your own lives. I just wanted to reach out to you, the audience, to make sure that we all have a part to play in the following state. Grief and pain are heavy, and sometimes it feels like you're on your own, but you're not. If you're struggling, please know there are people out there that care and want to listen. Opening up isn't easy, but talking can help. You really matter, your feelings matter. Reach out whether it's a friend, a family, or support line. Let's break the silence around mental health. We're not alone and together, we can get through this. I would also like to add, think about what you say to others, because it can truly have an effect on their well-being. Social media platforms must do better to protect the vulnerability of people's mental health. If you can take anything out of today, please please be better. It's nice to be nice. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 57:34

A 12-month period. Yep. Um and then the end for that came very it was quite a sad end, actually. Was it? Yeah. Why is that? Yeah, because we went away for Christmas. Logistics is typically the only time that you can really relax over Christmas. I mean, most, not all of logistics. Um, but anyway, took Christmas off, came back in the January, and at that point, that's again, it's just coming to me now because I'm talking to you about it. That's maybe where the the bit of growth from me, I was like, Well, we can expand into Chester, there's an opportunity for a franchise there. And we talked about it before Christmas, and you know, the businesses started making a bit of money and whatever else. Uh, I came back in the January, sat down with um the Dave and Steve at Fastway, and they went, um, like last 12 months, honestly, like we want to thank you. Like, yeah, it's been brilliant, but stop. Oh and what do you mean stop? We're quite happy now with this five, six, seven grand a month profit. Stop. We don't want to grow anymore. We don't we don't want to expand into Chester, we don't want to do this. Oh wow, we're quite happy now we're gonna maintain this. Well, you know, if we get new customers great, and I'm like, Are you fucking mad? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, there's an opportunity, and we had a we uh I not a bad fallout, but like I was like, you know, I've blood, sweat, and tears over the last year to get it up to be then told to just stop. Now there was some perks with that. It was well, I'd reduced how many hours I was doing. I was doing a long, I was doing like 12-hour Monday, Thursday, and then driving back to Birmingham Thursday evening and whatever else. But they said, look, you know, you can we'll give you a bit more of a pay rise, Ben. We can take some dividends and didn't even know what dividends was then. No, um, and um, you know, there's a few more perks we can do, but just let's enjoy it, Ben. You know, we'll stop. And I went, no, and I stormed out, stormed out the meeting. Not as I say, not aggressively, not bad. I just said, you're fucking wrong. And I got in my car, drove to Birmingham, turned, I literally, I I had two phones then. Um turned the work one off and just went missing for about, I don't know, I think it was a good week. Easy, just turned my phone off. Yeah, just and just really and just went out. I don't know what it was, it must have hurt, it must have I don't I don't I don't know what I was thinking to be honest with you, because I had no right just to get up and go fuck you and like I didn't even think Could you imagine one of your employees doing that to you? Oh, I know. Um I think I got I think I got onto the phone to head office and kind of ranted and said, Look, they want to stop, they don't want to do chess and now I'm fucking pissed off. So there must have been that opportunity for me to go to head office because I'm not that daft. I wouldn't have just gone like fuck you, I'm I'm off. Um and then yeah, kind of went back. Uh it must have been two weeks later. Um, you know, and they were they were apologetic, but they said, look, you know, I was 20% and they were the what the 80% 40-40. And they said, look, this is what we want to do. It's nothing personal, Ben. We just don't, we're not as ambitious as you. Maybe it's time for you to go to head office because we know they want you can go with our blessing, or you can stay and reap reap the benefits here. I said, I don't want to do that. So uh I then took the job with the with the head office. Yeah, uh, you know, cease being a director. You know, looking back now, I didn't I didn't even think. No, didn't even know. I was like, I'm gonna just stay there. You know, they offered me more money, dividends, a new car. I was like, no, I don't want to do it. And then I took the job at the head office. Um and where was head office? That was based in Milton Keynes, um, and that was like a fancy title, but it was then supporting all the franchisees, that was my job. Yeah, okay, but it was a bit, it was a bit of a um, you know, it was it was kind of positioned to help the franchisees and sprinkle my learnings and help them grow. It wasn't, it was it was it was firefighting and it was tick box, yeah, yeah. Or they weren't in the uniform, or they were in the fast rate brand, a bit like what McDonald's do, right? Franchise stuff. But I took uh when I got the job, I um had agreed like two weeks off because I was going on holiday, um, and a couple of days in they called me and said the Northampton branch, um, they've turned Monday morning, all the colours are turned up, and there's a sign on the door saying business closed, you need to go. Can you go now?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

What?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

Yeah. So that was my first day on the job with the master franchise at Fastway and went to Northampton. And um, Jesus was that an experience. My first day, because then it's the first time I'd wore a suit, a Fastway suit, yeah, proper awful suit with Fastway on, the tie, um, turned up, and literally a courier grabbed me round the neck, and two others were trying to beat me up. What? Because they were because the way the franchise model worked, the couriers would buy the franchise from the area franchise.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:45

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:46

So if you had Northampton, you were the owner, yeah, you'd sell a franchise to me around for 10 grand and the next one 10 grand, 10 grand, and it just closed the doors, and there were five franchisees that had been there a month and it took 10 grand off from me. Yeah, taking that beach. They had no idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

No idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:04

So Oh my god, did he ever get caught? Do you know? Don't know. No, yeah, that's unbelievable. Yeah, I mean it's full of them. They they're around, didn't they? Yeah, they are around. So, yeah, so you so you first.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

Yeah, that was my first day there, and then to kind of kind of not dwell too much on that, kind of went in there, did okay, and that was 2008, and that's when the big recession came. Yeah. And um to to kind of finish the Fastway story, it um Fastway got in trouble as a as a as a master franchise. All the franchisees were kicking off saying, you know, we're going bus, there's no support. And we had a meeting in the um in a hotel in Milton Keynes, all the franchisees come. I was one of three on the leadership team. And the owner then, he was an Aussie guy, multi-millionaire, lived in Monaco. Yeah, and he just stood up and went, I don't fucking need this shit. Oh wow. He just stood up and went, I don't need this shit. We're closed. And I waited for him. And I was like, I remember sitting there, he was going, Yeah, you fucking, you tell him he well, I had a soft swap for the franchisees because it wasn't, but I was a bit like, yeah, you you know, you fuck, because some of them were idiots. Um and then we kind of went out, and then it just dawned on me. We went, fuck, I ain't got a job. Well, yeah, and that was it. And what year was that? That's how fast way, bam, stop. So again, that was I think it was around the September time because it was globally owned, it wasn't a very big franchise operation, but it originated from Australia, and they said, Look, Ben, we'll we'll pay you for the next six months. You just that they agreed that the franchisees could run the UK, so they got what they wanted, yeah. So it was 50, 40 of them that would run the UK between them. But he said, Can you just be the point for Australia just to make sure they're not going too rogue, they're gonna go rogue, yeah, but not too rogue. Um, yeah, but they paid me, that was the easiest six months of my life there. Nice, uh just got paid and just nice, yeah. And then, but I knew there was an end, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

Um and then yeah, there was an end, and then the next part was Yeah, yeah, six months obviously, you you've seen that out.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

Yeah, 2008, and then we Yeah, and then that ended. Sorry, yeah, yeah. Um again, then I didn't I was on okay money, yeah, but didn't have savings, didn't have a house. The job I was in, I was I was living at hotels. Um, and then Dan and Spud, my Tenerife boys and mates, they had a house in Stevenage, right? Spare room. Uh went to live with them uh during this six months, and then that kind of fell apart, and then I went to live with one of my best mates, uh Kevin Nick, in their spare room. Um, you know, hardly any money a month, didn't have a job, and it was Christmas. I remember it being December. I was just going out getting pissed. And um uh I actually spoke to Kevin Nick about this very recently on New Year's Eve, um, and I remember Nick coming in. And she went, like, you need to stop and you need to go and get a job. And again, that bit of luck, I went online, seeing a job. It wasn't advertised of who the company was. It was in sales, in transport. I thought, oh, that looks all right. In the back of my mind, I wanted to try and get into UPS or FedEx. Yeah. Take a bit of a backwards step to get in. And I applied for this job, and it was just really lucky. It was UPS. And they were at the final interview stage. Again, I won't go into too much here. I got that job very quickly. You did. And I got into UPS. And that was 2011. It was around 2011. When Fastway went pop. Yeah, yeah. 2010 to 11. So 2011 January, it was, yeah. UPS. So how long was you there for? So uh I was there, so I did about again. Um that was that was a big regret. I was there about 18 months, and again a customer poached me. Right. Again, offered more money, that was great, and this that didn't work out. Completely different industry. Um, they let me go after six months. That was that was hard. I bet. That was really hard because I was I was doing well at UPS. Yeah. And then again, luckily enough, my old boss, again, someone who was a big inspiration to me, said, like, you know, if if it doesn't work, call. Yeah. And it it the thing at UPS then it was they don't take people back. You're privileged to work at UPS, but they took me back. And then that's when I started to progress through UPS, the ranks of UPS.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:26

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:27

And yeah, about eight, seven or eight years in total. Oh wow. So you really, really learn the ropes. Yes, and I just climbed the ladder sales, and then I became a temporary sales manager, and then then I became sales manager in central London, which was like a big thing. It was like the it was known as the hardest territory in Europe. Yeah, they're massive, aren't they? Yeah, massive. And I just climbed the ladder at UPS and then I I got to my last position, which is um proper square peg round hole boardroom. There was me with Yanks and Mexicans. I felt so out of place, you know. But it it was I was on I was on that path. But you learn I learnt a lot, and that's when I had the most difficult part of my life, I would say, in work where it was officially diagnosed as um uh exhaustion and exact and anxiety. Anxiety, yeah. I didn't think I had it, no, I just couldn't sleep. Right and I remember my wife at the time, I was flying here there and everywhere in that role, you know. Um, and I remember coming back, I knew I was bad, and we I was in Germany, and I told my boss at the time, I was like, I'm not I'm not great, you need to get me out of this role. That the role I was in was like um it was renowned at UPS for a springboard to be a country manager, right? So Belgium or this, so it was where I wanted to go, but it was like it was rough. It was like you're dealing with all the vice presidents, you were the bitch, you were the bitch that knew what was going on, right? They don't get me wrong, they did kind of know, but they were VPs, right? Yeah, yeah. So you had to kind of educate them a little bit about what actually is going on in UPS in that country, so to say. But it was it was yeah, it was renowned as one of the toughest roles. I was told when I took the job, but they said if you can ride through the next two years, your next job is the job. Is the yeah, yeah, country manager, relocation package, yeah, go and work wherever you want in the world at UPS. Um and yeah, I was in Germany and I was trying to engineer a move, uh, and I remember walking through the door. Um, my Sarah will tell me better, but I was just not in a good way.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:41

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:42

And she'd been pushing me, saying, look, this is not you're not right, you're not right. But you don't see it. No, you don't see it. You don't see it, and I was so fixated on doing well. Sarah was pregnant with Freddie. Channel vision. Six months pregnant. Yeah, we'd just moved into our nice house, you know. I had the salary, I had the shares, I had the car, I had the rangeover, got the rangeovers at UPS. Um, but I wasn't I wasn't right. And um so I uh I went to the doctors and they said what it was. UPS, uh they were great to be fair, from a HR point they'd seen I'd cracked. Yeah, and they said, right, take two weeks off, but we're gonna assess it. Yeah. Um, and in the end I had uh quite a bit of time off when they um paid for me to go and talk to someone, which I did not want to do. No, that's hard, isn't it? Blow thing talking, but my employer insisted. Did it help? I think it it must have done something that you know. I don't it it uh it must have done something. The first two I was like just there, and I told when I remember sitting down in a chair like this and in a house, she was like an old lady with a cat, and it was all a bit fucking quirky and all a bit, I'm so uncomfortable. Um and I I just said look, I'll be straight with you, I'm here because my employers told me to come, and she was she was great, she was we just talked and um she probably did help actually because when at the time, uh even though I was not it you say about getting the itching ideas within two weeks of me being off, I'd already applied to try and get a franchise at McDonald's. Yeah, crazy because my mind is cleared. Yes, it's it just well it cleared clarity, it just cleared. I was sleeping, I was doing this, so I applied, and I remember talking to her about that and what I wanted to do. And it was maybe the third or fourth session. Uh she went, Ben, you know what you need to do now. And I went, Do I? And she went, Yeah, you need to leave UPS. You need to leave. You've applied for McDonald's franchise, you this, you that, you want to do this. You know what you need to do. Go and go and do it. And I'd had some loose discussions with Dave and Steve, my partners, ex-partners at HBC. So I kind of had that bubbling, HBC was bubbling. Um, I had the McDonald's franchise bubbling, which I actually got to the final stages of. Did you? You didn't, I don't think you know that. No, no, no. A couple of people know I think. Do you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:01

I I've looked at franchises and I looked at McDonald's, and you have to really jump through some uh in the final interview with McDonald's.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:09

They say this is the equivalent of winning the lottery of getting the McDonald's franchise. Got to the final stage. So the stages where you go to meetings, went to work in a McDonald's in Birmingham for four days, doing the fries, doing that, to do all that all the way through. Um, so from the January till we started HBC, which is the July 31st, I was off UPS for six months. So that was me trying to find my way. I was still getting paid, but I knew at the back of my mind I think I'm going. Um and yeah, I got really far with UPS and then the HBC thing, and that's when we started HBC. Steve knows this, so if Dave watches it, he he might be he might be surprised. Oh, really? Yeah, because we started HBC again on the back of a fag packet. Um, we went to the bank, you know, Dave and Steve had had a decent transport company that they'd sold, and they did their three years and wanted to start again. They're a lot older than me, Dave and Steve. There's um about a 20-year gap. Okay. Uh so they'd been there, done it, sold, got a few quid, but wanted to go again. But they, as they said at the time, they wanted a bit of young blood, so to say. There was a connection with me and Dave through um my wife, the old white wife's cousin Mary story, right? So I used to socialise with with um Dave's daughter outside of work, but I knew Dave through football, right? Um, and it was Sarah that actually said, not my wife Sarah, Dave's daughter Sarah said, like, my dad wants to talk to you, he wants to start a courier company. And he he I've been telling him what you did at UPS, and then he really wants to talk to you. Um so the three of us got together in my house. I was like, fucking hell, this is mad. Like, you just want to start and whatever else. So we talked about it, nothing written down, nothing, nothing documented, nothing written down. We had a handshake on what we agreed is in shares. Um which basically for me was Dave and Steve had put the money in. The risk for me was leaving UPS on a six-figure salary, and I said, Well, I still need to be paid, yeah, but my I will grow it, and then you give me the shares. That's in essence, that's what we agreed. Um and um yeah, nothing documented and crazy. That's how HBC started, but McDonald's was still running. Oh, right, okay. And and and you got to the last? I got to the last bit. It was around, it was a few months later, and um they did some checks and they said, We can see you've been appointed as a director for HBC logistics. You told us you were at UPS, and I said, Well, I haven't I haven't seen you for two or three months, you know, it was just paperwork and online stuff. And I said, Um, I said, Look, I've started HBC, but McDonald's, I want the franchise. I want it. Um, but you know, it was it was about a 10-month process, you know. I'd have everything was lined up, went for this final interview, and they said, I don't think we can do it now because you've started this logistics company. And I said, Look, it's only three months. Like, you know, if you give me the franchise, I will stop and I'll take the franchise 100%. You know, I sold, I was like, I want it, I want it, I want it, I want it, I want it. And they said, We need a week, we need to get the ball together to decide if because we were, yeah, you know, we were, we're not gonna lie, we were pretty set on giving you a franchise.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:26

Uh huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:27

Uh anyway, I was I met I was in Portugal on all day the time. I remember they called and said, sorry. Really? Yeah, because you've changed.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:35

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:35

Yeah, because you've left UPS and didn't tell us. I said, Well, again, I was like, but you no one spoke to me. What do you want me to do? Should you put my life on hold?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:42

That's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:43

Yeah. And they declined me taking the franchise.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:46

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:47

And did you have a local? Which ironically is in Biggles Wade where my business is now. And that when that franchise launched, it was the most successful franchise. That was the one they relying on me. I've all I've always looked at them and they look complicated.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:01

They look, they do then you hear a lot. Did I mean they they asked for a lot up front, don't they?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:08

Huge amount. Yeah, but I didn't have a potter piss in. I was about to say that. Well, I had my own house, a bit of equity in the house that I could have done something with, which but because it's a franchise, McDonald's introduced you to HSBT, and because it is in their mind printing money, so I got 100% loan, no equity, I'd back you because you were getting the franchise. What the loan was? Oh, it was a lot. Yeah, it was a lot. I can't remember the amounts, it was a lot. Yeah, so they but the bank will back you because it's the thing is, as you know, McDonald's, they buy the premises, they build the premises, they own the premises. That's where they make most of the money, as you know. Um, so you don't you don't they rent it back and the and the capital that the bank would give you was just start up.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:50

That's mad.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:50

And there was like an agreed rate because there's a model, yeah, it's a very strict model of seeing. The bank knew the model.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:56

Even get your foot in the door with them, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:59

It's unheard of, you know, like it was unheard of, but they actually said when they rejected me, they said you can't reapply for two years, but we'll make an exception. If you come back in 12 months, we'll talk to you. And never thought about it. No, because then HPC taking off with yeah, so I failed that, and then HPC carried on, and then HPC really started to grow, and and I just didn't so HPC uh 2017.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:21

31st July 2017, we started. You've got these two guys that are obviously your business partners, yep. They've come in, funded it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:29

I mean, like, don't need to know how much, but it wouldn't be cheap because well, no, they were they were look, they were Steve in particular was very shrewd with with how he did things with the bank. Yeah. So I remember we went to um we went for a meeting in Luton to meet the um it was uh RBS, and um I remember him calling me up and he's saying, Oh, they're asking for a fucking business plan, Ben. Can you can you do one? I said, I ain't got a fucking clue. I said, You run a business, Steve? Like, um he said, I don't know how fucking do what. Yeah, he went, Don't worry about it. They know who we are from our previous company, it was a relationship, right? I'm sure it'll be fine. And we sat in this this this office with RBS, um, and the bank manager, it was all prim and proper. Um, and and he said, right, have you got your business plan, Steve? And Steve kind of went to his pocket and pulled out a bit of paper. There it goes, and he went, right. So, first year, Ben thinks we can get up to a million, yeah. Uh, and then we're gonna start with four vans, and Dave's got all his owner drivers, and you know, I'm gonna run the finance, I'll get my daughter in to help. And it was just scribbled on a bit of paper, and I never forget the two people, they just looked at each other and looked back. They if they'd have said no, it would have been a non-tar. Um I don't know if it would have been a non-starter, but it would have been harder. Yeah, it would have been harder. All invoice finance, yeah. People know what that is, right? Um yeah, so that's um that's how it was funded. And that they had to put some equity in, obviously. Yeah, of course. But the four vans we bought is just minimal deposit on finance. The unit was five thousand square foot. There was a quite a big deposit. Again, Dave and Steve funded that that deposit for the warehouse. And again, Steve was not keen on taking this warehouse, it was quite new, it was expensive at the time, three or four grand a month, I think. And I said, Look, it's got it was like we hold 7,000 pallets. Now you could get 200 in that. Yeah. And I said, Don't worry, Steve, I can fill it. You know, we'll get it in and we'll get some pallets filled. I'll I'll fill it. Um, and Steve was very, very unsure, but he he he backed it. He did. Yeah, he backed it and put the deposit in. And we basically used the bank's money. Yeah. Because they'd had the company before, there was a bit of a a leg up, and I'm sure loads of people know about uh selling your company and then starting again.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:50

Doesn't mean I'll give you two seconds of your time. Just wanted to say again a messy thank you. Please listen to this messy is really important to me. And I know it affects so many people. Thank you. My experience with radiation is real is affecting thousands of children across the UK every day. But too often are called over that science are labeling destructive or lazy or motivated. The truth of these students aren't failing, the citizens fighting them. We need to be vigilant. Teachers, parents, and leaders must recognise the signs, offer support, and fight for every child's right to learn in a way that works for them. Because when the schools ignore ADHD, we're not just letting the kids down, we're holding them back. Let's do better. Yeah, funding, funding. So, yeah, because you've got vehicles as well. I was gonna say I wrote that down. Um like purchasing vehicles, I mean, that's a big outlay, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:53

Yeah, very, very big outlay, yeah. So we started with four, and the uh traditionally what we do in the same day, well, there's it's a big owner-driver model, so guy, bloke, lady with a van, we give them work, we pay them X, we charge Y. Um, but we started with four. Uh, and then as we started to grow, we started to hire a lot of vans week to week, put drivers in them, and then kind of got to about 12 months, then we got a bit more established, a bit more established with the bank, getting a bit more money in. Um, and then yeah, a lot of people started approaching us and said, look, you know, you you can buy these. And when you work out what we were paying for hiring the van, it was give or take a similar cost to buy. So because we had that regular work and we were growing, we were right, okay. Well, we'll de-hire those four and we'll buy four of our own. And we did that, and we became eight vans, okay. And then that's that's how we that's how we did it. We hired, hired, hired, got to a point and thought, right, are we are we have we got enough to give those now 12 vans with yes, bump. And that's that's kind of how we did it.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:02

Right. And what's a van cost?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:04

Uh good question. They've gone up a lot recently. Yeah. Uh we've got quite a lot of looting vans with tail lifts. We've got a lot of looting vans with tail lifts. They're they're touching 50 grand now. Are they? Yeah. And how many you got, sorry? 48, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:20

Um that's an asset, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:22

So yeah, mix of lootens and long wheelbases and the heavy goods vehicles. I've kept that subcontracted, so they're all HPC logoed up. Nice. But there's one guy that's grew with us, his business within a business. So he just kept with him subcont I subcontract all the work. He has an office in my office. Brilliant. And we give him all the all the seven and a half ton and above work, um, but it's all HPC on the side. That's amazing. But yeah, again, he charges me X and we charge Y. But he loves you. Uh I think um Screw him. But he's he's a he's a great guy. He's a great guy, Daniel. He he he he's he's another classic story. He's he's a Romanian fella, super intelligent pilot, commit by trade, commercial pilot, and he just bought a looting van, started working for us, then bought another one, brought his twin brother in, and then he just grew and he got four or five vans within us. Uh, and then one day he said, Oh, I'm thinking of getting a lorry. What do you think? And I said, Well, we do quite a bit of lorry work, so go and buy one. So we went and bought one, and he drove it, and then he's he's he's grew with us as well. So that's amazing. His business is about £1.6 million a year within our business. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:33

Wow from subcontracting, yeah. That's uh it's nice if you take people on your journey as well and be loyal. I think that that does get lost in I think in business in general. I think loyalty and again over a pound note, people can be difficult and um and not take people on the journey as well. Yeah, I think that's something that I've you know I I've experienced, and um you would be surprised what people would do for a pound note and uh um would rather cross the street and not talk about it and you know keep their head down.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:03

So yeah, to take someone on their journey you've grown quite quickly in eight eight years, it's started and sold big growth, like you know, um there was there was a lot of headaches there along the way, free free premises, well technically free homes, but we had quite a few premises, farm barns and things like that as we were growing, ducking and diving, you know, trying to make things work. But um yeah, so we grew first year we did just over a million, then we did second year 3.2, third year 4.4 fourth year COVID we dropped to 4.1 because transport most of transport boomed when COVID came, right? But we didn't because we were quite specialist same day type, and that work didn't that didn't boom, and that was that was fucking scary. Yeah, I bet for for us. We we've remembered three years in, two and a half years in, um really um, you know, working from home, you know, seeing the fucking the revenue dropping. Um, you know, remember sat in my house, you know, talking to Dave and Steve, and we were like, we're just gonna have to fucking let everyone go. We're just gonna have to survive. And then um was it Sunak was maybe PM. I see. And he he brought in the furlough scheme. So that we literally we drafted everything to let everyone go. Really? Let everyone go. And then we passed you, and then we put everyone on furlough, which got us through that. Um, and then it kind of got to the June time where it was still in transport. We could have stayed in the office, right? But again, Dave and Steve were a bit older. They were as we were all blinded by fucking COVID back then, it was like, well, you could die. Well, yeah, you can die. People did die, right? Um, but um but they built it up to believe that we were all. Yeah, that the the world was gonna end. And Dave and Steve and and the staff were a bit nervous about it, so um we kind of rode that a bit, and then I remember at kind of end of May time, I was like to Dave and Steve, look, we've got to get back in the office, we've got to get back and we've got to start doing what we're what we're doing. So um, which we which we did, but we were still we were still doing the same things, we were still getting the right new customers every week, we were still growing, but not money-wise. Um I think that year we had a record amount of customers, but we went from so we went 4.4 to 4.1, then we went to 9.7. That's a that's a that's because when COVID stopped. I bet. And because we were doing all the right things and getting customers on, that customer was only sending one job, but normally sends ten. That's correct. As soon as the doors opened, we went four heads. That's some growth. Unbelievable. Yeah, that's that's when it it was what I would call a good headache.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:49

I bet I say it's like a cash cow, right? Then you go for a little bit. But such a big growth as, you know, what four four plus million, you know, like it was it was it was it was not easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:59

Like, you know, it was not easy on the staff, you know. The staff which we've still got most of them at that time, you know, they worked long hours as it was, but even then we would we would, you know, we were working silly hours and they were staying late and we weren't paying them late, and we were just trying to look after them when we could. Um yeah, people don't see that. No, you just see the growth. Just see the growth, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:23

Uh to grow so quickly, you were obviously uh overheads become bigger.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:29

Uh they did a bit, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:31

Yeah. Uh and the the payment situations, obviously, you 30 days or uh it's a it's it's a mix.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:39

No, it was um typically 30 days. Yeah. Um but we had some big customers that were on sixty days. Yeah, yeah. Um we had one of our biggest customers go into administration about six months in. Oh, that happens, does it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:52

Oh, it happens, yeah, okay. Yeah, you don't you don't 'cause I'm you know, I'm in the construction world and you see that a lot. Yeah. You know, uh The construction world is is is we call it the Wild West because you know I always talk about this, I find it fascinating with everyone and and business in general is that you know you go in Tesco's and you buy your food and you pay for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:13

Well that's the biggest thing I've learned over the years is without sounding arrogant, I think the selling thing is quite comes naturally, it's quite easy. It's not easy to sell, don't get me wrong, but you know, if I'm good at something that I'd probably say it's a bit of that. Getting the fucking money in. That was the bit I didn't didn't really realise. You know, I could you know I'm saying to my partners, look, we've got this five grand a month, two grand a week, da da da da da da. And then three months later, Steve's going, it's fucking twice, and paid. You know, so the numbers look good on paper, but the money was But you got nothing in the bank, nothing. Yeah, so that that was the pinch point with the growth as well. Yeah, was the was the cash flow and learning that our cash flow cash flow was just a word to me. It wasn't even a word now.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:59

And and I I I'll make you right, I I speak to a lot of people in business, and the ones that fail are obviously cash. It's you know, it's it's getting the money in quick enough. They go, but we're so busy, and you're going, Yeah, I know that's great, but you're taking your eye off. And you know what? I was exposed to that myself, the bigger we got. Um, you know, and in like in my world, it wasn't service and maintenance, it was um it was install, so it was basically businesses that could fail. Like, you know, you know, you've got the big business, you know, you see it all the time in in the news that these big companies are going under, you know, because their overheads and mar their margins are so small, and going on that is like the margins that you work with. Um cash is king, you know. Like you know, it's it's all right to it's alright to have say, well, you know, I know a lot of businesses that we do work for, uh or we did do work for who was working on five percent margins.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:55

Yeah, see our margins were always pretty good, but yeah, that goes back to that fast way story of undercutting and filling the trunk. Yeah. When we got to that growth, it was like, well, I learned from that we can't do that. Can't do that, can't do that in this situation. So um it's a race to the bottom, I was, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:13

Race that race to the bottom. And I hear that a lot, you know, like I see up the big. We're going through it now.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:16

Yeah, yeah, well in transport. Yeah, yeah, and we're now kind of got to that point where we're kind of one of the best, the biggest in that kind of big, big area that we we we cover. Um there's the other Ben Weldens now and Dave's and Steve's that are coming through the smaller ones, tie bands, chipping away at the heels, small chipping away at the heels. So Nick in business. Nick and business. And that's so like I said earlier, it I I'm very against that now. One thing, again, if there's any advice is is try and stay really strong on what you're good at. We have customers, and some of my salespeople get a bit frustrated. My partner, Dave, like he runs our operation. He's like, but Ben, they're fucking attacking our customers and whatever else. I'm like, well, look, we're better than them. If they're gonna go for a penny, let them go, and we'll we'll keep tabs, we'll do the right thing, we'll keep saying we're here and your account's still open, and you know, and when they mess up, we always do it professionally, right? When they mess up, we're here. And we went through a cycle of that last year with a few, a few other people that were nibbling at the heels, and that work has has come back. Is it not all of it? But look, we're taking five, eight, ten customers a week off of something. Um, so you're always gonna when you get to that size, you're always gonna lose some, but you don't want it without a few. Yeah. If you're because you're doing the right things, that's what you've got to focus on. Keep doing the right thing as you get bigger and whatever else, things change.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:42

You've got yourself into a position recruiting people, you know. What would you say is a must for you? Like, you know, what do you look at when you're because I hate interviewing? I mean, it's weird because we're doing a podcast, but I do hate interviewing people. Um I wish I was better at it. Yeah. Um, I thought I was really good at it. Um and then I'm probably a little bit e too easy. Yeah. So what do you what'd you probably the same? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:09

Um what do you look for? Gotta be the right fit. Yeah. The right fit. So personality is is a big one. Yeah. Um you know, most of the roles at HBC they've got to be the you know, the right the right fit for the company because we're um maybe not prim and proper on everything. You know, yeah. Um said, you know, the office is very relaxed, the language is very choice. Yeah. Um you know, you've got to be the right the right fit, so that that's a big one. And again, it's the the the big things I the I only have a couple of questions in an interview is is um, you know, you kind of just have to demonstrate that you've worked hard. Um I don't rule out people that have job hopped, no, a lot of people do, um but I try and understand why they've jobbed hopped and and the things you've got a long list of jobs that you've been through. Um yeah, personality is the big one, and the big the the only question, real solid question I ask is why should I hire you? That's the key one. And if they answer that fairly well. Um but I've hired so many people uh uh you know, even at UPS, but mainly mainly HBC, as you don't really know until you get you get them on. You know, you could have the best CV in the world. You know, I've hired people like on paper, like they're gonna change, they're gonna change this business. I know. And three months later they're gone. They're gone.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:41

I find that I find that fascinating a bit. You've got to take a bit of a punt, really. Yeah, you do, you do. I I I find it fascinating. Do you go do you go back to their old employees and get any references now? No, and and do you know what I never did either, and that's why I was asking. I find it fascinating that these people that come and sit in our offices, yeah, and sit there and say, I want to work for you. Yeah. And they give they they they come, they give us this speech on how, you know, and why, and you know, and whatever, and they're there, you know, they they will obviously want to be part of the business because they're there for the you know. And then three months later, you're getting rid of them because they haven't fulfilled what they said they were gonna do. Now, I'm not saying it's an all one way, because sometimes I probably have left uh let the people that I've employed down by not being able to give them as much focus as I probably needed to, because I'm being stretched. But I do tend to find that it is out there at the moment, or what since I've had a business, is that people come and sit in front of you and go, Yeah, yeah, I really want to work for you, you know, and I'm gonna give you this and I'm gonna do that and I'm gonna do that. And then three months later, like you said, you're going, I've got to get rid of them. You know, I find that yeah, I find that I find that really fascinating. I I I'd probably say I've seen it more than not. I I uh what I've been in business for nearly 20 years. I'd say I I was counting them on my hand the other day of how many people that I would if I go into business tomorrow, how many would I take with me?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:12

Now is that my fault because I've chose bad or or is that just the way it is? You know, it's it's uh it's a numbers game as such. I don't know. I uh uh do you do you see the same, or is it I mean you have obviously good staff work for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:27

Yeah, we do, we have but you also Yeah, but we've had bad ones as well, and and I've hired them, you know. Um it's it's a bit like what you said earlier, the people think I think I I I think I'm a good people reader. I kind of know a good person when I when I meet one, and that's it really. There's there's no I've only very recently gone to a two-stage interview process, free technically, where it was just literally interview someone, if we like them, we'll hire them. Whereas more recently we're we're we're on a bit of a a recruitment drive at the minute, and I've kind of said, look, do the teams find them out. Do you get the warm, fuzzy feeling? If they're good, then you interview them, and then see what they're like, and then you're bringing them to me if you think they're good.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:11

Yeah, we did the same.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:12

Yeah, so um, yeah, look, there's no there's no there's no rhyme or reason. No, C V as a C V, we've had lots of people, some of our best people that have had zero transport experience. It's like, you know, it it's a bit like have they grafted? When did they have their first job? 16. They were working in JD on a weekend on a zero hour contractor or McDonald's. Yeah, I like that. They were working when they were young and they were in college as well. Tech technically that's a good, yeah. That's that's that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:41

Um work ethics, definitely key, isn't it? Yeah, but yeah, like for me, uh yeah, employing people is massive, you know. Like, um, and I think that that obviously helps you obviously um be a better business first start, you know, it's massive that you're you know, I think employing better people helps as you said to me about what we want to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:02

If you can try and give people that watch or listen to this some advice is is you'll get to a point where you know I want to do everything. I'm still a bit controlling like that a little bit now, and I'm finding that now with the new owners that have bought me. I'm like, yeah, like I go away, I can do it with this, right? Um, so you'll but you'll build to a point where you control, but the the hardest thing is when you get to the people bit that you have to recognise I need help. Um that's hard. You need to get the right people in to support you and make make you look good. And I've got a few examples where where that's been good and bad. Yeah. One in particular, who's a guy that grew with us. Um he's one of the guys now nibbling at my heels, and right um that relationship ended not great, and that's probably one of my biggest regrets is is I hired this all singing, all dancing uh CEO uh who had a great background, uh, he's he's very successful. Um but I had this guy here that was coming up through the ranks, more than up through the ranks, and that that hire was the wrong hire. It put his nose out of joint. That one was not the right hire at the time. He's now left, um, and he's now started his own company and he's nibbling away at the heels, you know. So yeah, peep people is is the uh is the big one. And then when we bought one of our partners out about a year ago, wanted to retire, Steve. Um he kind of looked after the financials and he'd probably admit himself that we'd got to a point of that we probably needed a bit of help. So I hired an FD consultant. Oh, did you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's uh numbers is look, I'm okay at numbers in general, but in terms of the nitty-gritty of accounts, yeah, he's been exceptional. Amazing. Exceptional.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:55

So again, and that takes you on to the next, doesn't it? It it it helps you take your next step, next step, and that's what saying about employing people that are you need someone, you need someone because like you're saying about the ideas, like my partners over the years, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:07

I said, Oh look, I want to build the software to run the company, right? You're fucking mad. Like, what are you on about? No, trust me, like but they always had the reins on me a bit, uh, and you do need people around sometimes just to go. Yeah. I was speaking to a guy at the event last week, um, and he's a proper Londoner, proper business kind of transport, rough and ready type. And he even admitted last year he said the biggest risk to his business was himself. Because if he didn't start to tighten things up what he was doing, and he'd go one day, well, yeah, let's fucking do that. You could just destroy it. So you've got to kind of recognise that you need to get good people around you.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:51

Oh, 100%. I think that's and you need a good wife. You do need a good wife. I need a good wife. I've got a good wife. Yeah, I we I think we're both fortunate with that. You know, you're you're blessed with yours, and I'm definitely my body. An understanding. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's again it's sacrifices, right? You know, you've sat you have to sacrifice something. You can't have your cake and eat it. You know, I don't believe in that. I don't I I don't think like I've missed many of plays, many of you know, school parents' evenings, and and you know, just recently, because I'm uh you know, is I'm actually going to my daughter's, you know, teachers, um, you know, whatever they call them, but I'm there, yeah, I'm present. Um, and I can see what it means to her, but I never was. You know, I never was to my eldest, and you know, the sacrifices, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:40:37

There is, yeah. Yeah, there is, but that's it's hard, you can't. It's yeah. You're building a better life for them, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:44

As well. And I believe that, you know, there isn't there is a selfish part of it as well. I mean, I'm you know, I we all have that in uh in us, but I was building a better business. I was building a business for my children to be hopefully have a better life than I did, you know, and that was my gain. But sacrifices are are a given. You know, you can't you can't do one without the other, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:08

No. No. No, and what she was uh she she's been she's been great with me over the years with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:13

Yeah, it's good though. She you need that, mate. And you need yeah you need that, you need it's it, it's that it's that calm as well sometimes when you're obviously going through, you know, you with with the mental health and you know, you the anx being anxious and that stuff, you need some, you know, people around you. I mean, as you grow, as you grow, as you get older, I was explaining this to my wife the other day, you become f you have more fear. Like I've as I've grown grown older, I was never fear I was never scared of anything. And then suddenly, and she was just you know, she's my calm.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:46

You know, and I don't know if you can relate to that, but Sarah's not sorry, Sarah, but Sarah's probably not my calm, but she yeah, she she knows kind of when to keep in check, and it is with the family the family bit because yeah, you know, yeah, you just kind of run away, and there was a couple of years ago where it was getting to the point of that I was just bypassing, yeah, you know, you know, Freddie was a few years old. Obviously, Lily came into our life, we fostered fostered Lily, so that was that was a big big change into our life. Um and yeah, a few years back, you know, she um she said, Look, you're gonna have to you're gonna have to do a bit better. Yeah, that's fair enough. And it is, and it look it it helps sometimes. You need those hard conversations because you just don't see it. And naturally, like you said, my response was, Well, I'm I'm I'm doing this for us, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I'm sorry I can't be there because I'm trying to make things better so we can do this and we can do that, but like what she said, she said I don't fucking care. Nah, I need you to do this. I need you to do this, yeah, with that, you know. And when they're saying it, it means it, right? And you know when they mean it. Yeah. So I have I have I have made that change. I think she would agree with that. You know, I do finish earlier at times now, I'm a bit more flexible, and you know, I take Freddie to his football and I pick him up from this and get more else. It's the balance. It's it's hard. It's it it's it's probably the hardest thing. Yeah. You know, the business thing, you know, you'll take a view on it if you you do well or whatever else you do well. Balancing your family life is is probably the hardest.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:23

I think I've got I me personally, I've got I think from my experience, I got it wrong, you know. Yeah, uh trying to reflecting, you know, if you reflect on anything, I I definitely got that wrong. You know, I was so my phones, I had two phones, a bit of similarity yourself, they were bum, you know. You're on all day as well. On holidays that there was no such thing, and people go, Oh yeah, but you're going on these nice holidays, but I'm stressed out, stressed because I know what's going on back in England. And then there's it, and there's the other side where you never don't you don't really sleep as well as you should, and you eat, it becomes irregular, and everything about it, people go, Oh, yeah, you know, you're smashing it, you're driving around in nice cars and got out.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:57

That's what people don't see.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:58

But they don't see the other side of it, and you you know, you you you're you you can see like anyone, any business or entrepreneur or people who've got businesses, you talk to them, they're all in the sac they're in the same boat. They're all similar, yeah. Anyone wants to succeed, it's it's that drive to get there. And you know, my advice to any young person that's ever what listening to this is that you have to work really hard. Yeah, you know, there's no gain without work, you know. Very simple. It's um you need a bit of luck on the way, and then you need and you need to employ people that are good. Um you get them right, you know, you pretty much got a successful business. What you're listening to at the moment, like you know, do you do you listen to audiobooks podcast?

SPEAKER_00 1:44:41

I started too the past probably year. Yeah. Started to listen to a few. Yeah. Um it the it's Stephen Bartlett, is probably the one. Good in he. Yeah, he's he's very good. Yeah, I listen to him quite a bit. Uh I've gotten into YouTube a little bit more now, some of the more kind of educational stuff, not just business, just general stuff, because I can't I can't sleep without watching a telly. Uh I tried the audio. Yeah. So when we moved house, Sarah said we're not putting the telly up, so now it's phone at the side of me with a headphone. Um I tried the audiobook, but even though I'm listening to something, it's just like no. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:21

So and where's that come from?

SPEAKER_00 1:45:23

I think that's just maybe my childhood. Like when uh, you know, I had a first tell in the room. It's like we had a small house, you know, we didn't have multiple rooms or this, you know. You you your Sega and your PlayStation was in your room with the telly, that was the dream, right? So I think it's it's just come just come from that. But I literally can't, you know, I can't, I can't, you know. Um I woke I woke up last night, and yeah, as soon as I do, I I roll over, grab my headphone, if it's fallen out, stick it in. Stick it in, put put something gone.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:51

Yeah. I was like I was like that with a loss. Like when I lost my mum, I I had to have sound in the room.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:57

It was like I was on my own otherwise. It was a real strange when my wife met me, you know, I used to have the radio on or the TV on, yeah. And then that just suddenly went away. And obviously, being having someone next to you is a bit of a different scenario. So I think that was for me, it was just a bit of a calm, but I so you still do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:13

Yeah, so I listened, yeah, a bit of still I like watching Dragon's Den, yeah, the the classic. Yeah. Um I don't I I've listened to a bit of audiobooks and and stuff. Um probably the only decent book I would recommend is one of my old bosses at UPS is called The Chimp Paradox. If you've heard of this.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:32

Oh, I've heard of this, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:33

So it's I think it's Steve Peters who is like does a lot of things with Chris Hoy and Ronnie O'Sullivan. Yep. That's a really, really good one. Is it? Yeah, I didn't read it, I audioed it because I just don't like reading books. It's called The Chimp Paradox, and it's all about your mind and about how we're chimps, and when you go fucking mad and you you you go off on one and you put the chimp back in the butt. It sounds mad, but it's like for just normal blokes like me and you think I read that. Uh that would be the one I'd recommend because you can relate to it not just business, it's life as well, you know, when the kids are doing your heading or your missus doing your heading and things like that. Okay. Um that's a that that would be my record recommendation. The chimp paradox.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:14

Someone recommended that to me ages and ages ago, and I I just never jumped on it, but I'm gonna jump on it. I'll um it to finish it up, there's two things probably. Uh who who would you like to thank? I mean, there's a you know, out of your journey and where you are now. I mean, we mentioned a couple of people on the on it on at the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:33

Yeah, I think it's it's it's it's pretty much the people I'd I I've mentioned. Who would you like to thank? Yeah, so it was um it was the guy I mentioned earlier, Peter, who you know, um who passed away pretty suddenly after that illness. He he was the one that kind of got got the range over, and I think he talking to you today he's probably really contributed on that that path. Um the first Dave and Steve in the Fastway days. I think you know, just giving me that shot of becoming a director and an owner. Um I would then say after that there was a a few people at UPS, but one in particular, Tracy Barker. Yeah, she was my manager and she really pushed me to progress through UPS as a huge company, right? You know, I was what I was known as as a traditional kind of BDM account exec. Yeah. She got a kind of a promotion to look after another part of the sales, sales team, and she really pushed me to look after her team while she was on the six month. Okay. Um, and I, you know, it was kind of unheard of. You know, at UPS it was so structured, it was like you're an AE, you're then a national, then you go into enterprise, then you go into sales, it's like bump bump. You don't you don't deviate from that path. But I went from salesperson to temporarily look after Tracy's team. Um, and then I must have done something pretty right, and then that's where the promotion come to straight to sales manager. So I went from salesperson to sales manager, and I remember at the time a lot of people were like, How the fuck have you done that? It was like on air-of-and and that was all down to Tracy. She's um she's she she was great, she was really, really good with staying in contact or was it? Yeah, not as much as I'd like. We'll send this to Tracy so she can say, yeah, we'll she can listen to it. Yeah, yeah. But um, yeah, she's uh she she was great. Um and then Dave and Steve, my partners. You know, we've had some rocky roads, the the three of us, right? Um and and Kety more more so. Um, but you know, they believed in me. Um, they stuck to their word when we shook hands in my kitchen about how the deal was gonna be. Um, you know, Dave is still working with me now, you know. So um in we're in different roles, but he's still my partner, always will be my partner. Um yeah, I'd like to find Him um Dan and Spudbaz, my mates, they were always there at the end of the phone. Certainly more recently when the sale was going through with HBC, they were they were there, you know, Kev and Beats or they were all there before as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:15

They were all there. They know the Ben. Again, they know the Ben. We know we're running out of time, but is it something that friendship is that's friendship, that's real friendship, you know, and that's what you look for.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:28

And the easy one, but it's not, it's not it's not just a given, but like Sarah, like she's she's lived and breathed it, and like you know, we've been married nearly 15 years now. Um and it's it's not it's not been all plain tailing, you know. Never is our families are you know, people don't you don't even know the ins and outs of of some of it, right? Um, you know, you know about the Lily thing, she's my blood, my niece, my sister. That the that I won't go into it, but obviously it was a problem. She took Lily in with open arms while I was growing HBC, she had a six-year-old land on her lap that was not in the best best way. She did that. Um she she's always supported me, even when I didn't think she was supporting me. Talking to you now again again. I don't I don't talk the stuff, but you know, um even when I know she, you know, I think, wow, fucking give me our time for her again. Like, you know, you know, you need to come to Freddie's fucking assembly, you need to come to but like I've got this and no, then you're not fucking going. You've got to come, you've got to come to this, and um you know, and we are a bit chalk and cheese, we always joke about it, but um, you know, we work, we are we are yin and yang, and we've had we've had lots of ups, we've had lots of downs, um, but you know, she she's a good one, and I uh like uh she does rub it in my face sometimes, you know. Well there's a saying, and she always says to me, sorry, so I can't remember it. It's a something about having a good wife and happy life or something along that something along those.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:08

Yeah, I do believe it's right. You behind every successful man that's what she says.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:13

That's it. Behind every successful man is a successful woman. I do tend to agree. I'll bet she does. She does remind me. She does remind me of that. Yeah, so the biggest one would be to would be to her, and it's not for Brownie point. I wouldn't have got to where I was without without her, because when we met, I was in Kevin Nick's spare bedroom in my overdraft. Crazy. You know, and um, you know, even now with all the family stuff, um, she is not, you know. I said, you know, we're we're we're changing her car this week.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:50

She's like, change your car for you. We've just sold our business, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:52:54

Yeah, yeah. And and and we've not treated ourselves with anything. Um, and I said, Well, look, it's it's it's it's nothing too extravagant the car we're getting. It's um but it's it's it's a defender. And she was like, I think, you know, do we need to do it, Ben? Like, you know, I'm quite happy with the car or something. It's exactly the same.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:11

My wife is exactly the same. Yeah. But you need that. Yeah. You need that. It's that grounding as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:17

Well, it is. Well, when you you know, when you sell and like we like what we've done, we um you know, for the listeners, we sold HBC on the 20th of December. Um, so I'm on that next journey now for the next couple of years with with the with the new owners, you know. We um This is exciting. It is exciting, yeah. And well done.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:32

I'd just like to say that. Well done. Nice work. That's amazing. And yeah, I I said to you off you know, off air, and I said, You you know, you deserve everything. You you should, you know, you're a top guy and you you've worked really hard. I think the story that we've told today just shows you how hard you've worked. Yeah. That's my fair play, mate. No, no, listen, you you I mean that. So yeah, pretty exciting stuff. So what's next?

SPEAKER_00 1:53:57

So what's next, really? So the the way the deal is structured now is there is um I'm I'm kind of shackled in for two years, which is what I wanted to be honest. Um, you touched on it earlier about not working. Um I couldn't not not work. Um, so yeah, there's a big a big plan now to kind of grow HBC at a new level within DX and kind of integrate all the DX work. Um kind of hopefully educate, you know, they're very successful in lots of areas of logistics, but they're not in my industry, the same-day world. So it's to it's to grow that. Um there is an incentive there. I'm now a shareholder at DX as well. They're they're private equity owned, so there's a there's an incentive to stay, but it's probably more now. The next big thing for me is the the with the sale, is is making sure that that that that I actually do feel pressure with that. Everyone says about pressure growing the business. Yeah, yeah. Always at the back of the mind, look, you know, beardo, um, you know, you bought the watch, yeah, you bought the cars, and you go fucking hell, I've lost I've lost all that money on that watch, or I've lost that, uh, done the chippy. Yeah. I always knew at the back of my mind I had HBC, I've not got HPC anymore. I've solved I've sold it, so I've got this this pot that I need to now make sure that I use it, use it well. So if I stay with DX for many years, or if I if I don't, I'm I'm I'm set up. So I've just just done my first purchase. I've done an apartment in Liverpool last week. Liverpool next to it. Obviously, you know, I'm a big Evertonian, but Liverpool has gone through that regeneration around the ground, and there was an opportunity there. So there's there's a few other things I think I'll probably stay in property. I've done that before. Um it's pretty safe. Yeah, pretty safe, yeah. Pretty safe. Um, but there is there is another tech business I'm looking at as well, which we've started uh with some guys who I've met on this journey of HBC. Yeah, um, that's called Mint app. That that's in the detail and world. So um hopefully in the next three to four months that that'll launch. Trillion. Um, yeah, but I think really is just uh see where it takes us. See where it takes us. See see where it takes me next. And uh the app's cool. Uh the app is called uh mint. Mint. Yeah. Okay. Uh so there's there's three different parts to it. There's like a PEX element, yeah. Where it's like a subscription, you pay a membership and you get all your equipment that you need at a really good price. Equipment for what, sorry? For detailing cars. Oh nice. Detailing cars, yeah. Um yeah, and then you've got the the the the second element which will be uh to then distribute work to detailers so the detailers will become accredited with mint. Yeah, and then the apple then distribute work to plug gaps to to their day-to-day. Interesting, yeah, and then the third part of the tech will be helping that detailer run what they they do, right? Um so they've got their own 40-50 customers, and we'll give them a couple of jobs here and there, and then the tech will tell them that they need to be there and there and there and there. Pretty clever stuff. Um it sounds it, yeah. It does. Yeah, so there's three good guys I'm involved with that, and again, just just going quickly into that about starting businesses. I'm a massive believer in partnerships, yeah. Like partnerships, partnerships, partnerships. Um, so there's there's three really good guys that are involved in that as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:21

Um yeah, partnerships partnerships are a bit a key. A lot I was listening to someone yesterday and said, I can't do partnerships because it's you know and then I'm the other way. I I always need to like I even if I the person.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:34

I know I know my place, I kind of know what I'm quite quite okay at and where I can bring something to. It's always nice to share a problem as well, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so no, that that's the next bit for me. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:46

Sounds exciting. Um, one thing, yeah, one thing that um no one knows about you.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:53

I was born in Weymouth. Not very interesting to the listeners, but the people that will watch this was born in Weymouth, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:01

You've got to live with Pudley and X.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:03

So Dan and Sport don't know a loaders like it. That's why they call me Weymouth Weldon. But yeah, because my dad was in the dad was in the military, and that's where he was based, and that's where it popped out. I was born in um Portland in in Weymouth. Beautifully Weldmouth. I've never been, it's on the list. I've got to go.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:19

There we go, you've got to go. Maybe it takes out. Maybe let's go.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:21

Sarah's planned something for us to oh lovely. To go, yeah, but I popped out in Weymouth, so technically my driver's licence and passport place of birth is Weymouth, but at three months old I was back at Liverpool. Back at Liverpool. Yeah. Not very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:58:34

No, no, but it's it's still a fact that I didn't know, and uh one I do now. So that I really appreciate everything uh you're coming down and seeing me today. I know the journey was a bit machitter, um, but again, I really respect what you've done and uh I really expect really uh respect you sharing my j your journey. Um so thanks for your time, mate. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Nice really mean that. Cheers. Just wanted to say a massive thank you for Ben for sharing your story and your insights to me and the listeners. I also wanted to say a massive thank you to you, the listeners. Without you, this journey wouldn't be possible. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and follow us for more conversations with inspiring entrepreneurs.