How Tim did the Unthinkable - Underdog To Owner

In Part 1, Tim shares his story, lessons, and experiences so far — and it’s genuinely inspiring.
This is the first of a two-part episode, so make sure you come back for Part 2 where we go deeper into Tim’s career, the moves he made, and what he’s learned along the way.

Thanks for listening to Underdog to Owner. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone who’d love it and subscribe for more.

Please Follow my Instagram page  for up todate - Underdog timer To Owner 

Thanks for listening to underdog To Owner subscribe for more stories of entrepreneurs and creators who started from the bottom and built something amazing.

Follow us on social media for updates and behind-the-scenes contents, Instagram, Facebook and TikTok if you have any feedback or want to be a guest please email: Paul@underdogtoowner.com

If you enjoyed the episode please write and review us on your favourite podcast platform. It really helps others discover the show if you want to learn more 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

If you give me two seconds of your time, I'd just like to say a massive thank you for following me so far. This really can't be done without you, listeners. So thank you. Welcome to Under Doctor Honor Podcast, where we dive into inspiring stories from entrepreneurs and innovators. I'm your host, Paul Atkins, and today I'm excited to be joined by Tim Horrell. Tim is not only a good friend, but he's a serial entrepreneur in the world of fictions and fittings with an impressive track record of building and selling three businesses in this space. He knows what it takes to scale and sell. Welcome, Tim. Thanks for joining me, mate, and I appreciate it. Around your gaff, so it's it's nice, it's obviously it's lovely. I'd like to be here. Can I buy this all the time?

SPEAKER_02 0:42

You can have this, mate. 50 quid a gifted quid an hour, or was it? Yeah, 50 quid an hour. Yeah, you've got to give me a better deal than that because. No, it's 50 give to us, is it? It was, it was, yeah. You get your coffee machine now, you've got water, 50 quid an hour, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, call and cake for lunch, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

You're not gonna eat her. She's got an illness. Oh, yeah, no, but I appreciate your time, and I know obviously you're busier, you're always doing something.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

I'm busy trying to do stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Yeah, I'm exactly the same, mate, you know, but it's to be fair, like I keep saying it to everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

I've never ever been interviewed and recorded, videoed. Well, I'm honoured. There you go. So first podcasts are quite relatively new to me. And the first podcast I listened to was Elon Musk.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Oh, was it?

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Yeah, and it was unbelievably fascinating how he started.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

They're quite inspiring. I find I find that's what I think with podcast team. I think they're quite inspiring.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

And you can relate as well, yeah, when you when you're building your business, and I've related to it now. I'm at the end of the that that lifespan. And it was just like wow. People look at the end result, always judge you like a book, don't judge a book by its cover, but they judge you at the end. So, how did he get there?

SPEAKER_00 1:54

That's the interesting bit. Uh mate, so we were talking about it on our last one. Is people only see when you got there, yeah. They don't see how Elon Musk created what he created and how like the failures, like we talk about the failures, and we talk about that quite a lot. Like, you have to fail, don't you? I mean, it's it's a must. Yeah, I think obviously starting from your younger days, really, and and school, like school was yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Look, I listened to your podcast or a very short clip about school, and it relate I related to that. I didn't draw my houses upside down, but I my stick men were just disgusting. Yeah, I I had the same as you, dyslexia, yeah, and it was really you're just thick, no one really named it, and and no one had a name for ADHD, it was just naughty. But I uh I loved and hated school. I loved the sport, I loved the camaraderie, I hated the education part because I was thick. But well, you thought you were thick. I well I was okay, so I'm academically poor. Yeah, so I ended up with two, two, one O level, yeah, and one GCSE grade one, which is an O level, and then loads of C C S E CSE grade one in geography and uh grade C O level in history, and that was it. And I busted my balls and revised, but just couldn't retain information, and because of my dyslexia, the question blew it for me immediately. So the question would come up and I wouldn't read it properly and I didn't answer it totally incorrect.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Totally incorrect, you know. Your dyslexia, did you know that you had it? I didn't know. No, I didn't know it just didn't exactly know it existed.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Mum and dad didn't say anything, just thought I was generally nice kid, yeah, nice kid, but not the sharpest in the pack. Yeah, but I had that will to try, yeah. I tried, yeah, you had and I failed. Yeah, but in my last year, uh our school changed their policy on the head boy, so it was down to the pupils to vote for who they wanted to, right? So I canvassed myself being quite acute because I knew I'm not the sharpest. Yeah, I ended up being head boy, did you? And that was on every job I went for after school, yeah. They thought, oh yeah, this black must be clever. You turn up and they go, well, that's a waste of time.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

At least I got the the experience of multiple interviews. That's a great idea. I mean, you you were good at sport though. I was good at sport, which helps, doesn't it? So so good looking chap.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Oh, I never really I never really socialised at school, so I I didn't I never went out of one girl at school because my mates were all from Maidstone. We used to go partying like school discos, yep, with all the boys from Vinters and that. And we used to have a good time, good laugh. And then they go, Why didn't you come to school with disco? No, I don't want to. So I never I never really socialised with school, but I liked the sport. I was really good at athletics, cross country, 100 metres, 200 metres, 300 metres.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Oh really? Running, really good at it.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Yeah, I don't think it wasn't 300 metres, but and then football was my passion. But then when you come to the end of school, our school didn't talk about universities all the way through. University. What school didn't you go to? Sweden's, I fear, Lenham. Yeah, Lennon. Didn't even know what university was, didn't talk about it because you ain't clever enough, so you ain't going. And it was really poor. Yeah. Really poor.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Yeah, I think it's changed, maybe not, maybe not to the lesser. There's still kids out there now having what we've got, and dyslexia are probably. I talked about this, my daughter's got it, and my eldest. Yeah, but they're looked after, that's recognised. Only when it's recognised. You know, hers, she only got recognised in university. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah, you should be. And we got a diagnosed. Wow. So I I had a meeting with the school with my youngest as well, and we sat there together, and I said, Well, I feel like you've let, you know, there's two kids could be in your school for my family, and no, none of no one's ever recognised it. We've recognised it. Yeah, I mean it's our job too, we're parents, but you just think what the teachers are saying that they're lazy. Yeah, you know, and they never said that she was ever, they never ever said she was thick. They just said she was lazy or not never doing enough. And then ever since they found out she is dyslexic, they gave her the tools, the printers, the colour screens, the things that come with it, and now she's flying.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

Gotta go back to uh how old are you, you're 50 this year, anyway. It's 10 years in it, it's 10 years in it, right? Yeah. When we was at school, the the the job situation was basically the job advice from I don't know who the woman was, I think she just came in on a day release base from the Looney bin, and it was like, okay, get a trade. Get a trade. That's it. Right, cool. And that was it, but that's what I did. I know. I went to work for I got a job as an apprentice, mechanical engineer for GEC avionics, and it was brilliant. It was a year uh college, yep, a school, their own training school, and you just learned how to manufacture products for that are going to end up in fighter jets. Okay, yeah, so it was quite technical.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Yeah, very technical.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Learn a lot, I smell horrible every day because it was it was I was a mechanical base, I was on machines, and it's coolant, so when you're cutting aluminium, you've got this white like paraffin y stuff and it splashes over you, it's disgusting.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Yeah, so you you kick up, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

You stink, but you earn nothing, I can't even remember what it was, but it's like pennies a week. Yeah. But the the the mates, I've got I met my best pal there, who was my best man when Kate and I got married. I met him there first day. Oh, did ya? Yeah, first day. How old were you? 16. 16. Turned up on moped. Yeah, AP 15.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

I have one.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Oh god, we lived in Best and we had to go to Stroud, yeah. Over that way.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

That's a that's a drive trick. That's it on a on a moped.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Up boxed the hill, we'd hardly made it. Was that that those times were amazing, yeah, really good. Yeah, so that first year we bonded the people, and we had our little crew, and then there was electrical boys that are a lot clever, cleverer, and they they were they were with themselves.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Do you find yourself though, Tim, well you got brought out of education, yeah, and then went straight into something that you actually loved, yeah, felt passionate, loved, felt and treated the same. You know, you you looked after, they looked after, you really looked after you get a bit more confident as well.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

But yeah, exactly that. I hated the school, the learning bit of school, but this was on on the job learning. So you had someone there, like a skilled person who's done this for all their life, training you on the job, on the tool, on the machines.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

It was brilliant. Yeah, and the school is archaic, isn't it? I mean, it's about putting us in a pen in a situation, and if you don't fit in that pen, you're an outcast as such.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

I was probably in the C set, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

It's like with all the divs. I was in gamma. Gamma. I was with all the, you know, we don't want to tell you what they are, but we we know what they were because I I genuinely couldn't read or write properly. It was so like draw houses upside down. The houses I was good upside down. But but you know what I'm saying is is that you're sectioned, say, well, you're never gonna do anything. Sectioned, yeah, literally sectioned off. But uh you you are literally pushed aside, yeah. Like you're and the only thing I was the only thing I was ever good at was football. So I kind of got through because I was good at football, and I was a good-looking kid. So, you know what happened? Wow, age, we know all about that, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Ah so it's a horrible thing, isn't it? Yeah, it is, it is horrible. Yeah, so after that, school, you a year's worth of training, you go up to what they call the main factory, which is the GE Save GEC everyone's head office in Rochester, and that's when you had to float around different departments, and I ended up very luckily in the model shop which made prototypes for head-up displays, night vision goggles, and stuff for the fighter jets. Nice, and that was pretty cool. That was bad, but again, still using machinery, still stinking, but again, you're you're in one workshop, all blokes in there, it is just hilarious. It was just like being in a changing room, yeah, funny, so many things happened, and so that was a four-year apprenticeship, and back in the day, when you come out of your apprenticeship and start full-time and earning a bit better money, they used to do stuff to you. So, my luxury was they got hold of me, stripped me naked, hung me by my feet, upside down on a crane, an overhead gantry crane, and then helped me up, and then painted me with a thing called engineer's blue. I am like a blue, head-to-foot head to tone. How was you? I just loved it. You loved it, yeah. It's a play. And then I had to go to the nurse to try and get it off my face. She said, What's happened? I said, Oh, I tripped over and spilt the engineer's blue over my face. She said, Have you just come out of your apprenticeship? She goes, Okay, yeah, but that that was fun times.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Can you imagine doing that now?

SPEAKER_02 11:15

That's exactly that.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

You'd be red card, red card, red card, red card. You're off. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Alpha Safety didn't seem to exist like it does now. No, it didn't, it was non-existent, wasn't it, back in the day? So you went and I stayed there for about another six months and went, this ain't for me. Right. I'm not making any money, this is shit money, and yeah, I want to do something else. I want to be in sales. Yep. So that's it. What made you choose that? Because my next door neighbour, yeah, he had a Cavalier SRI. Nice. He had a boat, speed boat, and he had a really sexy wife. I went, I want all for you. I went on that. So I got to chatting to him what he did, and I found out he was in sales and I went, I'm gonna do that. I literally spent four and a half years at that factory that were that at GEC Avionics, qualified, you know, the H and D qualifications and decided to go into sales, just like that. And I didn't even go for interviews, I just jacked my job in like that. And I was working on the roads doing paving. I was going for interviews while I was on the tools, so I'd go to work that day nine, I was having an interview. They'd drop me off, and they'd even get a train or whatever. So I'd always turn up for an interview with my suit in a carrier, covered in shit. And the one off the third, the job I actually got was a company called Split Fixings. I had to get changed in the warehouse, but they had a toilet in the warehouse, like one of those portal cabin toilets. Oh, they're horrific. They literally just get in it, and I'm getting changed in the small. I'm not small, no, exactly. And that was hilarious. The guy that interviewed me ended up being my boss. He said that was the fun one of the funniest moments I've ever had where you came in looking a mess. Yeah, and coming out like Mr. Ben.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

I was about to say, you go in there like go in there like Clark Kent coming out like. Did you get the job?

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Yeah, I got the job, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Did you?

SPEAKER_02 13:10

So that was kind of called Spitfixins, who were French. Right. Odd name, I know, but there was really only them and Hilti in the game. So you're talking 87, mate, 87. So Hilti were the Germans, and then Spitfixins were the French. Hilty were far superior, you know, and Spit were like they're just attacking Hilty. It was very difficult, but again, go back to training. Training for me, and it comes out in my career later, is so important. And the training at Spit had to be better than Hilti because we needed to be better than them. Yeah, I was always fighting them. Training was superb again. Gatwick, head office, training centre. You were on two weeks on, two weeks off, two weeks on, two weeks off. And I'm a couple of months in and I'm not really getting it.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

So I said to this guy, Graham Slaughter, he was my trainer, I know his name still because I employed him to work for me.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

This episode of Underdog Owner is sponsored by Romax Solutions. Romax Solutions is a UK trade and labour agency supplying skilled, trades, and reliable labour to construction companies that need to scale quickly, fill urging gaps, or support busy projects. So instead of stressing about starving, you can focus on delivering the job. If you need dependable workers on the site, visit Romaxsolutions.co.uk to learn more Romac Solutions. Helping construction businesses build, grow, and deliver. Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

And he gave me some extra time after, and I'd go there after work and he'd give me a couple of hours, and all of a sudden it clicked. Why is that? I don't know what it was. I don't know what was blocking it. It was maybe a bit of an overload. There was like too much information. Just trying to understand how this product worked. Knowledge is power. And and then you're a new salesman, trying to learn your pattern, and you don't know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

So you've got to know. You have to know. I I think you've touched on that, and it I think we all know that, like you said, knowledge is power.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

I got I I was the best salesman they'd ever had within six months of that guy finishing me off, Graham. Literally finishing that last bit of education within that next six months. I was the best in the country and the best salesman they've ever had. And I won holidays to the Bahamas, and I was all over the place winning awards, and I loved it, it was amazing. I loved the business. And then they got bought by an American company, ITW bought them, and it sort of changed overnight. They changed the commission structure stupidly. Two of the other guys that worked in Kent said, We're gonna leave and set up our own company. They said, Do you want to join? I said, Yeah. Like an idiot. Bear in mind I'm the best salesman they've got and I'm earning a fortune. And I said, yes. So I went away with them, but I did nothing on the setup. They told me to carry on working, right? Keep the business going and build your relationships. Never told anyone anything. And then left and then started. Like there was no anti-compete, no, no rules like that. I got arrested. They they sent some police down and arrested because I had a dem kit and I gave everything back by a demonstration kit. So we used to sell fix-ins and power tools, and there was a certain drill called a turbo drill, which had a big, big head, and the tips were replaceable. And I had one in my garage. It's like it's used. Yeah. Forgot I had it. Yeah. And they came around down, they sent the old bill down. Can you believe that? They came down and searched my garage, and there was one there, and they took me down the station. They cautioned gym. Wow. Send me away. It's a scare tactic, man. Of course it is. And then I got the call from them saying, Look, sorry about that, but do you want to come back? I said, Absolutely not. I'm I'm going gung-ho, we're going against you. And we I I knew nothing about where did we buy this stuff from. But in the meantime, while I've been working, the guys that set the business up got the supply chain sorted. But the supply chain is like say 10 centimetres deep. Now the supply chain is thousands of deep. Yeah, of course. Different now. So we we had about six supplies. Yeah, the product range was tiny. Even Spitz product range was tiny. Yeah, and where was your pro where was it coming from? Most of it was Germany. And then a Birmingham-based crowd, they were doing the screws and masonry fixing. And the fix-ins were limited, really limited. And I don't even know, looking back now, how the hell we survived, you know, because you you didn't have a lot to sell. No. But then you built your knowledge with customers that wanted X, Y, Z. And the two guys said, Do you want to do it? And I went, Well, yeah. I didn't even have an inkling that I was going to set my own business. No. I was happy as Larry. And then they they sort of said, Do you want to do it? And I said, Yeah, it sounds like a good idea. And it actually was a good, great learning curve, great learning experience. That was called a company called Tag Industrial Fasteners. And how did it go? Let's let's see, let's go back to how we got to Tag. Yeah, sorry, yeah, good point. Alan Gary. Tag Tim Alan Gary. Tag the watch. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, we we busted our balls, done well, worked out of a portal cabin. Then we had another portal cabin as a warehouse, and yeah, we took on Spit, which was our old employer. How was that? Yeah, it was good, really good, really good fun. And then then we employed Gary employed his brother. How did that go? Dave, who was a national accounts manager for Spit, so he had loads of knowledge. And that's where it went wrong, really. Really? Why? Well, everyone changed their roles, you know. Yeah. Gary, Gary changed his role. Gary was a great salesman. Was he? Yeah, really good salesman. What did he change his role to? He changed his role to the financial director. Okay. Yeah. And he, you know, no disfair to him. I'm not going to slag him off. No. But it was the wrong thing for him to do. He was a great salesman. We could have employed a financial director. We didn't need a financial director. He just wanted to get out of sales. So his brother came in to sort of sort of run the sales. His brother jacked it in. He's a great salesman. Yeah, really good salesman. Whereas Dave, he was at a different level to us. He was national accounts. We weren't ready to deal with those sort of customers. So it was a bit of a stupid move. Alan and I decided to leave. And we left with nothing.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Absolutely nothing.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Nothing. And how long was you there for, Tim? Started in 89. Yeah. And left in 91. So a couple of years. Yeah, couple of years. A couple of years. I had a brand new BMW 325 available for a week. Yeah. Because I knew it was leaving. It was already ordered. Oh right. Yeah, it's just crazy. And what we were doing exceedingly well. So we were then not only competing when we left Anna and I to set up VJ Technology. Yes. We were then competing with ITW Spit and my old company Tag and Really Hillary. And that's again that was really it in the market. Oh wow. And then we started VJ, which is a totally totally different story. And before we start, VJ. Yeah. Terrible name. Where'd you get it called? Oh my because we set the company up before we actually left. Right. We didn't want any so use moonlight. We come back, we set it up, we didn't do anything. Okay, fair enough. But but there was things that could have been done because you know, you know how it goes. And it was our my first wife's middle name. Oh, okay. And my Alan's wife's middle name, which was Violet Jean.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

So and we went VJ Technology, and it's that I'm sorry for anyone that's called Violet or Jean, but they're both terrible names.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

But years down the line, years down the line, it was like we've got to change this. Yeah. No disrespect. We didn't sound like a fixing company. We sounded like technology. I don't think I can say this. I think so. VJ. What does that sound like? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

No comment. Because I can't say it, but that's what we sounded like. But also the technology bit, you know, I kind of think that's a bit advanced as well. Yeah, for fixing.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

But now we couldn't change it. We were too far in and we were too. So obviously you started now. So we started VJ. Yeah. So Alan and I, on our own. We started out of his garage. My mum lent me £5,000, and my auntie lent me £5,000, and Alan's dad lent him £10,000. Nice. So we put in £20,000. Okay. And that's how we started. Is it? We paid. And what did you need the £20,000?

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Pound for people out there stock, yeah, uh car, yeah, vehicle, vehicle, vehicle, and that was it initially. And what year was this 91.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

91. May 91.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

And a lot different then as well, 20 grand.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

I mean, May, we I didn't have nothing. No, nothing, and my mum trusted in me, they didn't have the money, yeah, and she lent it to me, and we paid her back of interest in year one, and then it sort of went from there. And it's it's madness how that grew. It grew exponentially, and this is where I go back to knowledge now. Yeah, I just wished I wasn't so insular in my business and just organically grew, because now it's not organic, people just buy people for growth. They do, yeah. Um and that's what we should have done, but I didn't know that. I didn't even the bank manager was like rare as rockin' all shit to because we had money, we never borrowed from the bank ever. No, because back in the day they didn't want to lend you anything. They didn't want to give you a pound. No, they just wanted to use their services. They did, yeah. Uh and that's didn't didn't even think about getting a loan to buy someone because we weren't built that way.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

It was all organic. And and and so you started with nothing. Started with nothing, organically grown grown year by year, I think.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Yeah, well, let's talk about when it took off. It took off when I employed my dad, bless him. So employed my dad, so this is Alan and I, we're both engineers, and Spit had a certain type of drill bit which you couldn't buy from anywhere, you had to buy it from them. I had a really big customer, massive flat roofing business and cladding business, who liked me and wanted to buy from me, but they wanted to buy a thousand drill bits at a time. Yeah, right. I couldn't supply them, but I could. If I bought what you know is known as an SDS and spend all night on a grinding machine, Alan and I, grinding out a slot so it would fit into the grinding, so it fit in the spit chuck, split machines, yeah, and I had to modify them to fit so it we'd stay up all night because every single one we went, that's worth two quid profit. That's worth two quid profit because split were very expensive and nuts, and we'd we'd grind them, Alan would wire them, put them through the wire. And they fit, right? You get standard lengths and standard diameters, but they usually want it longer. Yeah. So we used to cut it, okay, and that would be my old man on the machine. It'd be all day, we'd be all night. Brilliant. This machine was like Fred Didna, it was a it was a rotating, so there was a I don't know what it was a belt-driven electric saw. So it was like a hacksaw. So it comes around like that. Yeah, yeah, I don't know why I did that. There was something rotating here, but he did that. Oh, and he had weights on it because you wanted to cut faster. Oh my god. To press it down. Oh mate. You must have gone through some blades. Loads, loads of blades, loads of coolant, and it was like the old days. Yeah, we would do it. Dad did that. So, did we have a plan? Was one of your questions.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Well, yeah, was there any structure? When you started, did you go right?

SPEAKER_02 25:12

No, no, no structure, nothing. It was about sales, just get the sales, sales, sales, sales, and then structure came out of that because we had to have the stock. Yeah, so you've got to get the stock control, you've got to have stock minimum and maximum levels. We didn't have a computer, so we had handwritten delivery notes. Yeah. So you'd have the carbon copy for the customer signature, then that would go and I'd price it. So I'd price it at the weekend or in the evening, price it, and then it used to be typed on a typed out and send an invoice.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

It's like slower. Nuts. A lot slower, right? Yeah, yeah, it was a lot easier. So I'd say now it's like everything's so quick. Yeah. You know, and and if you're not if you've not got that in front of the client in the next second. Electronically. Yeah, electronically, then they're on top of you, aren't they? So I remember those days. Crazy, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

And I and like you said, it was easy, it was easier times for sure. Yeah. 100%. The competition wasn't there. There was no internet, so no one knew where to buy the stuff from. No. They had to trust I was the man, you know. Yellow pages. Yeah, yellow pages. My first salesman I employed went for the, that's what he's rolled. Did Thompson as well? Went through Yellow Pages and Thompson local. That's it. Leeds. My god. I employed him from Hilti because Hilti were the best. Yeah. And he's going through the Yellow Pages. I went, mate, what is going on here? Has then he got a didn't he have a network? No, he sold me a dummy. So I took him on, you know, because it was me and Alan. Yeah. We used our our contacts. Yeah. And we got really, really busy, you know, really busy quite quickly.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Do you and do you know, obviously, you started with nothing? First year turnover? I think we were doing quite quickly back in 91.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Yeah. About 40 grand a month. Gee. Yeah, quite quickly. Wow. Yeah, I know. That's impressive. And me being a bit gung home, I took on a job with a guy who was a big stonemason. He was doing a really big job in Holburn. And we basically got involved with him and we actually started doing work on site, drilling, because we had the technology with the drilling machines and the drills. Drilling concrete and putting these studs through for the stonework. And he knocked us. Wow. Yeah, massive company. He knocked us, but he actually went bust. So he didn't knock me personally. Personally, he went belly up. I went, oh my god. How much was that for? Oh, about 70 grand.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Ouch. In 91. 91. Oh my god. So that's really equivalent to about half a mil. And it's like, wow.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

It was a big first year and it was. First year. That was in our first year, and it was like, oh my god. How did you survive that? Margins were good. Yeah. Just had to work your way through it. It was just horrendous. Funny enough, I I couldn't take it lying down, so I went round his house. But I took some advice from a friend that we both know how could I frighten this guy without getting myself in trouble. So I took uh a petrol can around, knocked on the door, I tipped out of this petrol can into a jug, yeah, and it had a tiny bit of petrol in it, but mainly water.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

And he opened the door and I threw it over him. So he could smell the petrol.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Already. And I said, right, what's going on then?

SPEAKER_02 28:48

What is going on with this money? What are you gonna do? And we did end up, he although he went bust, he did end up paying some, but I couldn't tell you how to butt.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

You did you see it coming? No, no, because we were different days as well.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Yeah, it didn't even realise that could happen. No, you know, that's naivety. You just think, oh, you're gonna buy it from me, yeah, and you're gonna pay it.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

You're gonna pay.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Yeah, but that's what used to happen back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

And was it was it the same as invoicing every 30 days?

SPEAKER_02 29:17

We used to invoice weekly 30 days, 30 day payment end of month, sorry, yeah, 30 days end the month following. It's always been the same.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

30 days, yeah, and you know, you think you've got to change, you've got to chase that as well. I know, and you never get it for 30. Not especially this day and age. No, you did. Yeah, they were really good. Yeah, it's massively changed. And you don't go to Tesco's, right, and buy a load of food. So I'll pay you next week. I'll pay you next week. Or actually I'll pay you in 90 days. Or actually I'll might pay you in 90 days, but I might pay you in 100 days. But that's retail, it's different. It is retail, it is, but if we had a to protect the little man, right, the and I do believe this is that I know it's cash flow and everything's cash flow, cash flow, cash flow. But there must be money there in the first instance, so there must be money there in the instance. But they've got processes, of course they have, but it's also an element where there are a lot of these big boys who investing, so they're investing their money, so the bigger, the animals, they're investing their money in the stock and shares, yeah. So they can't pull their money because the money's in it tied up, so it's making money. Yeah, yeah. So there's a lot of that. That's another story. And and margins, like you just you just spoke about margins. Yeah. There's a there's a you're getting those margins wrong.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

Yeah, construction. I don't know how they do it, the builders, you know, their margins are so skinny, they get it wrong, they're done. I've seen it. We've seen it.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Yeah, we just want to say again a massive thank you. Please listen to this message. It's really important to me. And I know it affects so many people. Thank you. My experience with ADHD is real, and it's affecting thousands of children across the UK every day. But too often our schools overlook the signs, labelling kids destructive, lazy, or unmotivated. The truth, these students aren't failing, the citizens failing them. We need to be vigilant. Teachers, parents, and leaders must recognise the signs, offer support, and fight for every child's right to learn in a way that works for them. Because when the schools ignore ADHD, we're not just letting the kids down, we're holding them back. Let's do better.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Yeah, I can growth plan. Not really. It was just like buckle up and crack on. And that's unfortunately a bit of my work ethic is I've got an engine that drives me, and it's an insane engine, it's like a 6.3 AMG. Yeah. And you know, I just can't stop. Can't stop. So it was one of those like long, long days, long hours, but then you built this and you realised that this has got legs, so we need more people. So we need salesmen now. So we can't do this all, we're not going to grow, you know. We need to get more salesmen, different areas. So that's when we employed that guy from Hilti, and that's when we were talking about the phone book, and I went, I couldn't believe it. So it was a back to basics that I had to start training these salesmen. So the first one, I got my notes out from the spit days and my spit training, and I went, right, bang, here we go. Take a photocopy of that, start reading it, and start understanding it, because it's got all bits of information about how you approach people, different types of people, different levels of people.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

But stuff that you learn. I live and die by, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

You know, and so in the early days, it was the training was done by me. So my salesman, they used to just hate it because I was an early bird and I'd be on the road sort of half four, quarter, five. Wow. It was only 15, 20 minutes at the office. So I am calling them when because they used to come in the office once once a week, one day a week. I'm calling them that time in the morning because they know they got to be there at six in the morning. I know they're on the road because they're coming from all over the place, and I chew their ear off for 20 minutes to talk about what they've been up to because I know my day's gonna be uber busy, and I haven't got all day to sit down with this bloke. I've got an hour in the morning, that's it. That's it, job done, and you're on the phones, the phones don't stop. So, yeah, I remember Stuart Wells who's now got his own business, weirdly, and I'll be on the phone to him and he'd get in and goes, I'm I'm exhausted already. I'm exhausted. Because of the energy, because of the energy, and yeah, and I remember everything that you should have been doing that week, yeah. And I'm talking about every single thing, and it's like, how the hell you remember that stuff? Nah, I didn't. You just do, you just do that. Certain people do, yeah, yeah, yeah. You you had that you had the so I'm hammering him on the way in, but then we professionalise from there, you know. So that's when Graham slaughtered. How many years in? Two, three? When we started the training, no, long a lot longer than that. Yeah, because we had a we had a uh we moved to a warehouse, and it was me and dad and Alan, and then we had a couple of girls, and then we had a couple of salesmen, but we just sort of grew organically, and then we went to another warehouse, then we had another one, bolted onto it, then we started a manufacturing facility there, brought back our manufacturing knowledge, and we started making those studs, but with a proper machine, like a lathe, rather than the old Fred Didner. We did keep Fred Didner, just uh in the museum now. But then we got pretty serious when we moved to uh uh a purpose-built, well, wasn't it? It was a refurb. Alan dealt with the refurb in the 1999, 98, 98, and it was a rubber factory, yeah. Mate, it was disgusting. When when we bought it, I don't think I even went round there, I just said, Yeah, yeah, just let's do it, let's just do it. There was pits where they had this machinery full deep of oil. And I'm talking must be like three, four feet deep. Wow, it was disgusting. Yeah, and you imagine back in the day, you know, that should have been totally condemned. You wouldn't get away with that now. No, we we pumped it out. I don't know where it went, no, we don't need to. I don't know where it went, but the the concrete was contaminated, but it was just filled it in, and then we put a concrete blur over the top. It's like unbelievable. That's but then I meant I remember moving in there, it was like, wow, we've come from this tiny place to this place. You know, are we ever gonna fill it? Well, blink of an eye, it's full, you know. Really? Yeah, yeah. Did you rent them then? Did you rent them?

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Bought that one. Oh, you did? Yeah, so we actually bought that through the business.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Bought that through the business, haven't refurbed it.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

So for people out there that obviously are starting, how do you do that?

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Build our cash reserves. You know, you're talking 91, we started that was 98, so that's seven years worth of work.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

Seven years' worth of work, graft.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

Yeah, so you know, we weren't ones for taking loads and loads of money, we'd leave the money in the business, pay our taxes.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Would you recommend that? Every business is cash rich, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Yeah, there's people out there that I know that are weekend millionaires and just spunk it, you know. Of course, you can't do that, you can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Drive around in the Lambos for the weekend, for the weekend weekend millionaires, that's it, and they come out and they're like they're like vampires, aren't they? But mate, you just got to what would you recommend to like these youngsters or the younger?

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Right, different world now, yeah, different world, and it's it you could only go one way, and it'd be renting, but ultimately, if you can, yeah, it's gonna take a few years. But say you say you started doing really well, you set up a SIP, so you so you start yourself a pension, you can do some really good stuff now with pensions. Back in when I was back in the day, like when we had Square Wheels, you know, pensions didn't mean nothing to me. Now they're really important, so it's tax efficient, yeah. Put money in a pension and then use that to buy a property and then rent it back to the business, you know, all those sort of tricks.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Uh but no one no one gets told that, do they, Tim? If I'm honest, I'm what, 50 this year and I've only just learned that.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

Yeah, but but sips weren't about then, and a pension to me was worthless because my mindset was I want to keep the money in the business, we're gonna grow this business, and eventually I will get something from it. Yeah, but now it's right, okay, let's be tax efficient, let's put our money in a SIP and then grow it. Also, you can still grow the business that way. Of course. You own the property through the business. If you've got a business, you know, you own it personally, you rent it back to the business. That's it, you rent it back to the business.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

And that's the thing is is that people that don't know that is that you can buy it for your pension, so the more money you put you in your pension, you can buy a commercial property. Yeah, so you buy up a commercial property, then you can rent it back to yourself or the business, wherever. That never happened in my day.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Now these days, it's harder for kids to start, but also it's you could say it's easier because of the technology. No, like I said to you before, we used to sell products that people wouldn't have a clue where to buy from.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Now they can, and that could ruin businesses. It could. It's probably easier to like get money, it's probably easier for funding than it probably was back in our days. You know, we've got all these personal funders now, you know, people that will fund you, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

There's people out there now back back in back in when you started no no no such things, right? Family, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Crowdfunding now, and yeah, capitalists and private equity, it's just there's there's money awash. If you've got a really good idea, yeah, then you need to be speaking to these people.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

I agree, and there's a there's so much out there now that you can there's apps, there's all sorts where you can get funded and put the idea to people, yeah. Which you know as well as I know is there was no such thing. No, and I I mean I got a I got a I got a bank personal loan because they wouldn't give back and going back on what you said earlier is they wouldn't give us money, you know, you had to take it out on your house or your you know so you put it in a company as a like a business loan. I I put it I put it into myself as a personal, yeah, and I didn't know what I was doing, yeah. So I just took put you know it's like I started with £5,000. Yeah, yeah, and then my business partner put £5,000. When did you start? Uh about 20 years ago. 20 years ago. So yeah, 2006. 2006, yeah. And but but we had to take personal loan. My business partner, he had the money to be able to put that in, but I had to take a personal loan out. I put that in there, but they wouldn't give us. And I remember going to the banks and they're going, look, you know, even a year in, look, we're making money, you know, blah blah blah. We need an overdraft.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

An overdraft. We'd never been in an overdraft, but we had a big project come in and we thought, oh my god. Yeah, and we were very similar to yourselves, yeah. Always putting money in, yeah, never spending it. We never went beyond our means. Uh, we just we just wouldn't. And did you get the overdraft? No. No, they said no. They eventually over a few years they gave us an overdraft.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

But we resent them at that point. I resented mine, yeah. I remember I remember it was that West, and I resented them because he wouldn't help.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

But you understand why, because startups with risk, but then I remember like people giving me advice about limited company. So we were a partnership at the beginning, and then we went limited. And if anyone doesn't know, it changes the dynamics of the business, doesn't it? Well, it's supposed to. It's meant limited liability.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Limited liability, and I remember when I went to So, in other words, in layman's terms, if you're gonna go bust, if you're gonna go bust with limited liability, you're protected against creditors, creditors, yeah, kind of bank well, you are well you are banks, different story, yeah. That's what I was about to say. Personal guarantees, different story. If you've given a PG, parent guarantee.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

So a PG is a guarantee. I always use a parent guarantee.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

Like no tomorrow, and I and I should not have done because highly recommend not to do that, right? Uh only in desperate times, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

And it does it does happen, desperate times. Yeah, I mean I've been in businesses where with parent guarantees and things like that because you're part of a bigger entity and personal guarantees are exactly the same. I again highly recommend not to do it, but like you said, there's something there comes a situation where it's desperate. Sometimes you have to, yeah. But going on the basis of the like limited, I remember that they wanted the banks wanted me to put my house, yeah, as and I got told at the beginning by my accountant at the time was you know, can't do it situation, you know, like you're protected, and the the advice that I was given was wrong because the banks they don't protect you, correct?

SPEAKER_02 41:52

No, and they didn't, and that's the thing when you're signing that BG, understand that you say you did go bust, yeah, and you sign that personal guarantee, say it's the bank, they will come for your house, any assets you got, and they will take it.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

They will take the lot, aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 42:10

They will take the lot.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

They're ruthless, they're ruthless, and they're and let's just get this clear, they're not your friends, no, right? They're definitely they're definitely not your friends. Any any money in the bank is wasted in my eyes. Yeah, so yeah, so we're in we're in now. So you've obviously started creating money.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

We bought the premises, so go back to the training floor and said, right, okay, I've got loads more salesmen now. I can't look after all these people. Let's get Graham Slaughter in. So he's a tech, he was a technical man as well. So it became very technical with the in the probably early 2000s. So performance of anchors was really important, and we did we had to have someone that was able to deal with that. And what is that, Tim? So you used to have to the performance in so concrete's got a performance, an anchor in concrete's got a different performance. If it's close to an edge, it's got a different performance, right? So when you're fixing steelwork, maybe to concrete, uh engineers designed it, yeah, and this the the four holes that are on the plates, yeah, the steelwork have got to be able to achieve a certain load. Yeah, so the fix-ins have to be able to achieve a certain load. Okay, and then you had to go to the site and do a thing called a pull-out test sometimes if asked, and it became technical, right? So we employed Graham, he was amazing, and then we had also another guy called John Freeman, and we developed a team with those two guys, a team of salesmen that knew absolutely everything possible they could know about the products, the products, and that's where I go back. Knowledge is power.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

And on that, when you hired them, did you know them? I didn't know. So, what was your mindset and how did you employ them?

SPEAKER_02 43:47

Yeah, that that was difficult. Well, clearly, I wasn't very good at it because the first one I thought I thought immediately, and don't ever get caught up with this, that because he worked for my competitor and the biggest in the world. You'd assume he'd be good. Yeah. You'd assume. Assume was a never assume anything, right? Never assume anything. Makes an ass out of you and me. And I employed him on that basis because he worked with my competition and he was shocking. But with time, he ended up being my best salesman. So, and my salesmen were the best in this market. Right. In the whole country.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Really?

SPEAKER_02 44:22

Yeah. The best. And they were paid more than Alan and I. And then I didn't realise for about a year, and I've gone to Alan there, I've gone through the accounts, and I've gone, we've got to have a rise, mate, because they're earning loads more than us. And but they they they made the whole thing work. And they their sales were crazy. And back in you know late 90s, early 2000s, they were earning over a hundred thousand pounds. Then that was crazy money. Crazy money.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

That's a lot of money. But they were doing a lot of sales. Of course. And what roughly what were they turning over? Do you know, or is it so what were we doing then?

SPEAKER_02 45:03

We were doing about 10 million, so they were doing about probably maybe a million a year.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Then five million. I mean you've got to think about what they cost and what they you know you're selling them for.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Going back to the technical side, we were owned branding, so we were bringing our product in from Germany. And how did you find out to find out about where you buy product from, we decided that we would go to the clone fair, Alan and I. Don't know how we knew about the clone fair, but it was a construction trade show. We turned up and I'm we're like, oh my god, this is amazing! Yeah, there's all these people selling all this product that we never knew about. They're all around the world. Kids in the candy. Half of them, you can bin because they they they're actually not the owners, they're they're buying it from someone else, another supplier, and they're just like pretending manufacturer. But you know, we were so amateurish, we we were babies, we didn't know what we were doing, you know. We just come out and go, right, we're gonna own a brand now, which is what we're gonna do. Yeah, we're gonna buy it from you and put our name on it. Yeah, but did you prefer that though? I was brilliant, mate. Tell you a story about the resin guy, yeah. So we bumped into this bloke on a stand, quite a small stand with tubes of injection resin. We're buying injection resin from the UK, and he's sitting there smoking away, and I'm trying to talk to him, he don't want to know. Does not want to know. German guy. Anyway, talk about youth. He had his apprentice there. So his apprentice decided to pick up. We walked away, and then the apprentice came over and got hold of us, brought us back, and we started chatting and having a laugh, spoke really good English, this guy. And he said, sorry about him, you know. Because you're no one, he doesn't want to talk to you. You're not you're not a recognised company he knows. Well, they turned out to be what an amazing supplier, the best product in the UK, and we happened to get the rights to sell it in the UK, and that's what really I think drove us on being professional because we were selling this product that was coming from Australia, was being sold in the UK, Holland, it was awful. Yep. So in the winter it wouldn't set. So you drill your hole, blow the dust out, pump the resin in, put your stud in, and it wouldn't spit because it's from Australia, the heat. Yeah, it just badly made. Yeah. This was a German manufacturer, German quality, it was amazing. And then we could compete with Hilti on quality all of a sudden. So then we'd gone, oh, there's a theme here, we can do this with everything. So we done it with everything, and branded virtually every product. Just went and sourced it. Sourced it. So I was lucky enough. Did you do that? But you source it, or did you employ something? From the show, we're at the show, and again, okay, so you can just happens. So I met a guy that I used to used to work for Ramset, a guy called Dave Geddes. He said, I'm leaving. So what are you doing? I'm gonna sell, I'm gonna supply product to people like you. I thought great, from all around the world. Because he's been all around the world, he worked all around the world for Ramset. He was making contact with manufacturers, suppliers. He had it all, he had it made, and he became our biggest supplier. Did he? So he supplied it in, he'd get all the boxes organised, labels. Made it a lot easier, right? But that's why you need the technical guys because you have to produce data sheets and technical data and kosh data and and then and again you're employing somebody to do that, yeah, because that's not your field, it's not my bag, no, and but we employed them as well to do the training, so they were training our salesmen technically, you know, and they but they were the best in the market, and then that's when you go back to the people who are starting out. Don't get kid, don't kid yourself that price is the most important driver. Price is not the most important thing. For me, I've always been service, service, service, and a bit more service. So my vans used to leave my warehouse five in the morning. Most of them are done and dusted by 10. Nice so everything's on site in London, on London, banging on the door at seven o'clock, unload, get their round done, they can do what they like. I don't care. Makes sense. Service is really important, isn't it? Hugely important, never undervalue it.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

We we keep talking about like if you go in, we I always talk about it in a restaurant, it's the best way to explain it, I think, isn't it? Is that if the service is not on point and the food's all right, you always remember it. And it's a and and both around the other way. Always and going, it's I always I believe that that service is massively important. Huge. That can dip the bigger you get.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

Yeah, but that's when that's when my OCD came in, kicked it because I wouldn't let it because I couldn't let it happen. Because that I wasn't the cheapest by far, but you were the best, and I and I had to ride off the back of that. So I'll give you a clue. Um our our warehouse team didn't have an end date time, they finished when they finished, so we had national couriers that had to be gone by six o'clock at night. So they're packing all the parcels for that. Five o'clock, I'd go out there and say, Now we're doing this it's terrible. So I would make whoever was available in the office to go out and pack, and we'd get it done. And we was a team, and our camaraderie as a team were up was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

People see it, people see that leader, and and you lead him from the front because you were doing it as well. Yeah, but that's a big thing, massive thing, massive thing.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

But we all did it, yeah, you know, and that and that uh everyone that worked in my office there, they were all really good people, but I would sit in the middle of the office when they when we first sort of got into got busy enough to have people employed, and I say, I'm on the phone, I say, hold on a minute, put them on old, mate. So I make them put their client on old because I heard what they said. I said, You said that wrong. You don't say it like that, and you said the wrong thing. So I'd explain what you need to say, I'd go back to my call and he'd do it. And it was pretty mind-numbing, that is terrible, yeah, but that was just the way I was. I would just listen to everything that was going on. I go, right, I know, say that, say that. Yeah, control. Yeah, and then they got into the groove and they just got a patter and they understood what they were doing, they become amazing internal salesmen.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Honestly, I think that's so lost, and I really do. I I have seen it in my business, I've seen it in other businesses where the customer doesn't matter, and I can and I and I I I I say this a lot, is that rocky road. I said, real rocky road. Well, they pack a lot of people sort of put up with it now, don't they? They do. I think everywhere, I think everywhere you go is so lost in this country. In America, the customer service is impeccable. Now there's a gain there because they all want tips. Yeah, I get that. Huge, and the minute you pull their tip, it's a different attitude, isn't it? Yeah, cool, but there's a you could get in between. I mean, for me, there's an in-between. You go to a restaurant or you go into a shop to buy clothes, yeah. There's that whole mindset with them is they're just doing their job, they've turned up, they're doing their job, and they want to go up. Yeah, that you know, they're looking at their watch. I want to. I mean, I've I've I've had staff where they're looking at their watch and five o'clock, they run out. Yeah, right? Exactly. You run out, it just sets the tone. No, it's disgusting. And I for me, I'd advise anyone that's listening to this is that the minute these people do that is to pull them in and educate them. Yep. Because it's it's alright for us, it's alright for the business to support these people because that's what we're doing, but sometimes the people need to support the business round the other way. Yes, it's it's it goes both ways, it's not a it's not a one-way street. I've seen it so many times, right?

SPEAKER_02 52:49

Yep, that attitude is hard to get these days. Back in the day, they didn't mind, they got paid overtime. These days, maybe they're on a fixed salary and they're going, oh I'm off, mate, it's five o'clock, like you said. But it's it's about that effort and that work ethic, which seems to have disappeared a bit.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

Yeah, I think the pandemic created something and the working from home. And I had staff asking, you know, can I go up? Can I can I work from home? Can I work from home? And then it became the norm. So then after the pandemic, there was people coming to me going, Money, they've got to come in the office. Yeah, got to come in the office. Or or even even when you're interviewing them, they're like, Yeah, well, I do two days at home, and then I do three days, and I'm like, but you only live like 20 minutes up the road, you know, and you don't want to come in. You have to be. I want to pick them up, want to do the washing. And when you have to realise why, yeah, because they're fitting their life around work, yeah. Yeah, and and I'd advise anyone, anyone that's listening to this again, yeah, is you want it. I'm an old school, you know, I want everyone in. It's not because I don't trust them, but I think we get more out of them. You do, and it's a team, yeah. You build that togetherness, and I was very fortunate from my experience was when we had when it was the good times, we had a we had a family and we built on that family, and it was very rare that anyone left. Yeah, they knew about it. They did, but they got dug out by the other people going, Yeah, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

Paul looks after us, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

You know, you can't do that anymore. You I agree. You've got to pull your finger out. Well, it's a ripple as well. I don't know if you agree in this, but it's a ripple, yeah. If you don't turn up tomorrow, yeah, who's gonna do your job for you? Yeah, no, some or Bob's got to do it, but that's why I was there first. Yeah, of course. Last setting the tone, right?

SPEAKER_02 54:35

Because you've got to, you're too too busy and you need a bit of time on your own.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

But I was around the other way, I'd always come in a little bit later and stay late. Stay late. Always like last oh, last in, last in, always the case.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

Look, if you can get that right, then if you said to me what's the worst thing you what you would you change in business, yeah, it would be to have that control, that time control. Because I didn't have a control. No, you know, I'd still be there at nine o'clock on a Friday night, which is terrible. And I didn't have I didn't have a personal life during the week. No, it was always weekends, I didn't just see my kids in the week. It it just didn't happen because my time management was I don't I didn't have an off button, no, so everything just had just had to keep playing.

SPEAKER_00 55:22

You look back at that and go, if you knew what you knew, could have done better just with that, yeah. Like, yeah, maybe like could have done a lot better with that time management, yeah, because it you're so fixated, that's the person you are.

SPEAKER_02 55:34

Is the business gonna end because you haven't done that? And that was my impression that yeah, it will, because I wanted to be the best at what we did, yeah, driven, and my and I and it affected my team in my brain. You know, if I perform we're not performing, that means my boys are well paid, they're not gonna get any money, you know.

SPEAKER_00 55:55

It's weird, yeah. You're taking responsibility, right? You're taking responsibility and putting that pressure on you, so that's what you're constantly trying to deliver. I see it, and it's not a good thing, to be honest. No, and that that's what I was gonna go ask you next. Is that if you like you say, if you could change it, you would probably look back at it and say, Oh, that's I could change that.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

You know, like you're doing well, you're doing okay, and then your mates will have a golf day, and I wouldn't go. I just wouldn't go because uh just I'm too busy, but well yeah, yeah, I was, but it's not gonna disappear. The business is not gonna disappear because you went to golf. So I never gave myself that personal time, which was something I'd love to change. Yeah, like I think it's a big go back in time, but it'll be that change that definitely look at buying businesses rather than organic growth.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

Yeah, I'd touch on that. Oh, buying businesses, acquisitions, yes? Yeah, so just for anyone that's listening that doesn't understand that, what is that, Tim?

SPEAKER_02 57:00

An acquisition, okay. So let me talk me through, let me talk you through my first per uh a sale, sales business, because I I hadn't acquired a business till uh at that stage because I'd been a startup. So tag was a startup, yeah, VJ was a startup, yeah. Then we VJ got bought, we got to 10 million quid.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

Okay, so VJ got to 10 million million quid and I think some.

SPEAKER_02 57:29

And I think I was having a like a nervous breakdown, it was just like too much. Uh 2003 decided that we're gonna sell the business, so we sold it to a venture capitalist, right? Yeah, which was Barclay's venture capitalist. It's part Barclays, okay. Okay, well, what are they? What's a VC? You know, we've employed a broker to sell our company, all of a sudden we're talking to Berkeley's bank, and it's like, okay, wow, weird. And there were these two guys that are not from the bank. Well, those two guys uh are the ones that said, okay, we want to buy a business, we found this company, we want you to support us financially to buy the company, and we're gonna give you I think it was 150 grand each, they gave for their share of the business. Now I don't know how it was split for them, but but basically, you had two guys buying the business with Bartley's bank. It was a horror show, you know. As in I wasn't built for this, I couldn't understand the legal documents. I'm getting these documents, I ended up calling the lawyer, getting really angry with him saying, I need you to come and see me. And rather than keep sending me these documents, can we talk them through? Because it means nothing to me. It's like a different language. It is a different language, and I know it's done for a reason. Yeah, that you pay these listeners loads and loads and loads of money.

SPEAKER_00 59:03

They they all they've done is stretch the word, right? They stretch it, they stretch the word so you don't understand it. Yeah, they put full stop air and it makes a massive difference. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 59:12

Oh, it really it was really difficult. Yeah, really I can vouch for that. Really difficult, and and and and if you're trying to get advice out of me for that, you know, I've done a few along the way since then, and I've still had to ask the question. Just don't be shy, don't be don't be scared or don't think you're stupid. You'd recommend that. Ask the question. And you'd recommend what does this mean?

SPEAKER_00 59:35

Yeah, yeah. Do you recommend obviously with anything like that? Obviously, a a lawyer, a solicitor, get them get them involved uh involved as early as possible.

SPEAKER_02 59:44

On a business acquisition and a sale, you've got to get them involved early, doors.

SPEAKER_00 59:49

The broker. So just quickly, because we skipped that bit, the broker.

SPEAKER_02 59:56

Right, so they're the one with all the contacts. That's it. So they've got all the contacts with the V venture capitalists, private equity, personal houses, you know, just funds that are available, and they've got all the contacts, usually up in the city, yeah, for a price, and they are pricey, yeah. They are they they get their pound, you don't get your pound of flesh from the broker. No, the broker basically sets it up and then walks away with a shitload of but without them, you can't do much in the impossible contacts, isn't it? So you know I come now with a wealth of contacts. So if anyone out there wants to buy a company and needs some help, yeah. No, listen, this you are the man. I'm I would I would come to you tomorrow. I can help them because I've now got private equity contacts, I've got venture capitalist contacts, I've got lawyer MA. So with with mergers and acquisitions, that's an MA lawyer. What's an MA lawyer? So a lawyer for merger and acquisition, yeah, uh, or sell, so sales. So say that they look after this type, this sector of the lawyer world, right? Buying and selling the businesses. Yeah, they are contact, they got their contacts are unbelievable. Right. So, you know, you need I've got a really good one, brilliant guy. He's done a couple of deals that he happened to be on the right side of the fence for me, who's on my side, but yeah, it is a mind filled, absolute mind filled 100%. And don't think you're stupid because you don't understand because it's different.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

I've been there, it's different, and it is a scary, scary, scary route. I didn't enjoy it. It was probably one of the most stressful times for me. And you know, you just said it yourself, it was not good.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

Yeah, no, no, it weren't good. It weren't good because let's let's talk about the the the Bartley's one. They really, really, really upset me. Uh, a few months in, you ever bought me once a month. Yeah, a few months in, it's a second second month in. So you're you're bought now. We're bought, deals up, you get basically usually get half the money, and then you get an earno. That's it. So my earnout was 18 months, so I had to hit certain numbers, and then you get paid. Yep. So it's all going tickety-boo. A couple of months in they they started questioning our margin. So we changed software systems during the sale. So they came along, got interested. We were in the process of changing our software. Basically cut a long story short, in that period of time, there was a washout of numbers, there was a slight difference. I think it was half a percent. So even when we're making 54% gross, and it was 53 and a half, and they got a real B in their bonnet about it, and they started sort of being a bit silly, but nothing was done. So we get nine months in, so board month every month, nine months in, we've hit our number, the earnout. It's meant to be 18 months, we've done it in nine. Pretty impressive. The business is going amazing. So that a board meeting, I informed them and they congratulated us, and they said, Yep, lovely, we'll get it paid next month. Right, okay, next month, still not being paid, weird. Board meeting, what's going on, guys? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're just trying to get it through, and me being naive, go, okay, fine. You don't need to get it through. It's done, it's paperwork, it's documentation. Now we're gone, bollocks. What's wrong? So three months in now, after hitting it in nine months, they said, we've got a problem. But they brought back this half a percent margin from the purchase, and they said, We ain't gonna pay you out now. What? So so me being me thinking, oh my god, that means you'd have to go legal on them, and they're more powerful than me. Yeah, I couldn't take that on. Yeah, I ain't got the capacity to do that, so I've gone okay, alright. So I went out at the board meeting, I rang all my guys, I said, guys, got a slight problem that I need you to help me out with. I need you guys to stay at home, I need you to answer your phones only, your mobiles, but don't actively look for business and just remain passive and I will pay you. We'll work out a deal where you get paid a guarantee.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:14

All of them, didn't even question it. Yep. Brilliant. No problem. And what was your mindset with that reason? Mindset was that I need to put it, I need to shock them. So I needed to shop Bartley's with sales numbers. So next board meeting, I'd go in. Have we sorted out the problem? No, okay, right. There we go. Tim, what's going on with the numbers? Said, yeah, we're a bit demotivated at the moment, it's not very good. So I've not really got my head in it. See you next month. Next month. This went on for about three months. So I did it. They went on and the sales were diving. Yeah. When they decided to finally go, oh my god, we don't want this anymore. We can't control you. You're uncontrollable. So the money uncontrollable because you haven't honoured what you agreed. So they said, Do you want to buy it back? So yeah, of course you will. Let's have a think about a number. So obviously, Patrick and I, so Patrick was the guy that came in with Bartley's. Patrick and I and Alan decided the number and we bought it back, basically. Did you? Yeah. And did you buy it back for less or more? Less than we sold it. That's amazing. And we had that massive growth, but we had that massive problem where the sales dropped. But that was manufactured, but we had to get that back. So you know, so we bought it for a lot less, quite substantially. Substantially that's amazing. And funny enough, Bartley's ventures don't exist anymore. They they just got out of the market, they're terrible at it. Terrible.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

Yeah, I mean it's pennies. Bigger picture.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:43

You know, the idea of why they do it V VCs, private equity, they buy a business that's do doing well and they want to make it better with their advice, knowledge, power, money. Let the people run it. But let's run it, but let's let's get some structure in there. If they did feel well happy with the structure, everything. Grow it, yeah. I think that gets lost in a lot. Sell it, yeah. That's what they do, that's their their job. Five-year plan, gone. Yeah, so you know, they're very, very nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:10

I do think, I do think that gets lost though in a lot of businesses that buy businesses, like the bigger bit the bigger. I think what made it successful is the people. Let them, yeah, let them let them let them carry on.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:22

So we bought it back and then sold it again to SIG, Sheffield Installation Group, 4250 crowd. Oh, okay. Big big big company.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:32

You sold it again. So how many years were you running for then sold it?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

So basically, SIG wanted to buy it straight the same day we bought it back off Bartley's. Right. Uh I couldn't do it. No. I just said no, I can't do it. Okay. So I think it took another year to finally get it over the line, but so we had a bit of a rest after we'd done the Bartley's purchase back, and then a year later we started SIJ. Did you? And they didn't want to touch it, they loved it, like you said, about messing with it.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:05

They didn't want to mess with it, and they used to come down to talk to us to get our ideas to roll it in, in roll them out into their business. Really? Yeah, and they're a 4250 people. Yeah, big, big because they just couldn't understand how we were so efficient and how we were so good at getting product aside. And they learned that they they wanted a lot, which is really good.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:26

That's really key. Yeah, I think that's real for any successful business is a is about that. I think delivering is it's got it's a must.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:33

Yeah, but it's it's it's like you said, it's about understanding that business, and we don't know enough about it to stick our nose in. Let's let's keep away from it, but let's learn from them. So you sold? Sorry? So you sold to them, did you? So we sold to SIG, yeah, and then I had a five-year contract. So it's a big one, that is. So that's a three plus two.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

Is that five-year earnout, or is that no?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:54

The earn-out was less. Okay. Earnout was less, but it was a three plus two, and I couldn't tell you what that meant. But basically, you tied in, it was a fancy way, tied in for five. First year in our company won, we went to the awards, the SIG awards, we won absolutely everything. Did you everything known to man at the awards? And it was just a phenomenal feeling cleaned up to sell to that sort of company and clean up and still and still be recognised in the business to be what you are. Yeah. And they were they were good, they were really good at that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:26

Is the is that business still?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:28

It's not the same business, but it's still running. It's still running. Yeah, they they've gone from God, did they hit two billion when we were there, and now they're like 500 million, they've had some bad times. Right. And they sort of divested from my sector, which is the fixing fasteners world, because they decided to buy everyone. Yeah, we were the first of many, so they just bought all these companies, but they didn't bolt them together correctly, and it didn't work for them. Okay, they took their focus off what they they should be focused on, which was roofing materials and dry lining materials. So now they're back at that core, they are, so they're starting to build again.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:09

I find that fascinating. I I listening to audiobook, Good to Great. Good to great. Yeah, and they talk about that. They talk about obviously the diluting of trying to dip your toes into something that you don't fully understand, or that you are, and you can do exactly what you've just said is you can go from two billion to half a you know 500 million. Take your eye off the ball because you've you've you've actually taken your eye off the ball in what you're really good at, yeah. And that and that you see that got stick what you're good at. Really common in in business thought though.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:41

It's because of course when you when you're a businessman and someone sells you the dream and you go, Yeah, but I don't know nothing about it. Yeah, but it doesn't matter, you're a businessman. It does matter, yeah. It does matter because here we are again, knowledge is power. I agree, you know nothing about that. I so agree, but that was my business, really was the lowest spend on a construction site was fixing fasteners. Yeah, so it's under the radar, it doesn't mean anything to me anyway. It's not a big value. A couple of things that happened at VJ Technology, yes, you can, and and basically it's just trying to explain maybe a bit of advice or a lesson in life about as a salesman a being on top of your game of the products, uh knowledge is power, yeah, B understanding your customer, but C understanding the application, so the contract itself. What what what why are you going to see this guy? Permit, yeah, how do you do that? It's just impossible. We had to do that. We're still PPE, helmet hivers, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:42

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:43

And you could walk around and knock on every single contractor's door. Unbelievable. But that's why that's when you've got seconds. These people are so busy, they don't want to know you, absolutely don't want to know you. So I met what ended up being one of my biggest customers, a company called Vogue Development, right? There, they were brickwork contractors. So we're on the job talking about the job, talking about us, what we do. And I said, Have you got anything unusual on the job that you got to purchase of any value? Yeah. And he said, Yeah, we need a shit ton of these. And he I said, Okay, what's a shit ton? So he gave me the quantity. I said, Right, okay, no problem. Have you ordered them yet? He said, no, great. So me being sharp as a fucking razor, out of the door, on the mobile, found a supplier, rang him. Said, how many of these have you got in the country? He said, X. I said, right, I'll give you an order for the lot. He said, okay. I said, when did you last sell any? He said, two years ago. We've been sitting on these for ages. Right. It's a specific product, really unusual, stainless steel, raw bolt. No one uses raw bolts for God's sake. This was specified on the job. I've gone, right, here we go. Right, I'll have the lot. When's your next shipment coming in? We haven't got any order. I said, okay, how long would it take? Six months? So I said to the guy, send me an official quote from the buying team. Get the guys to send me a quote, a list of what you need, and I'll quote with him. So he came over, he wants to do this product. I bang it at a really high price. Next day, the buyers rang me. Says Tim, blah blah blah. You're miles out. I said, What do you mean, miles out? You're much more expensive than everyone else. He said, Yeah, I know. But my price would be that if I haven't got any. I said, What do you mean? I said, Well, what's their lead time? I haven't asked. I said, okay, go away and ask. What's your lead time? I said, tomorrow. Okay. Come back to me and he goes, Yeah, they haven't got any. I said, that's what I mean. That's my price, and I haven't got any. I've got the stock. Do you want them? He said, Yep. Bang. Whoosh. Loads of money. And that's how I started that relationship. Supply and demand. Supply and demand, exactly. So understand your market, understand your customer, understand the situation. The product. Take advantage of it if you get an opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:17

Understand the products as well. Like you can't get hold of the product. It's like everything, isn't it? It's supply and demand. Like the airlines have got you, you've got the client, you know what I'm saying. You need the client, innit? Yeah, I mean, but you take advantage of that where the times are, and the client, and the client needs it. They need so they need the problem. I think I've been in I've been in both scenarios where you well, basically, I need something, yeah, and the waiting time, I'd rather pay more for it to not let the client down. Yeah, exactly. That's or stop the job. So it works in both ways. Yeah, well, I think if the client understands, is that what what what's worse? Delay charges, yeah. Because that doesn't happen. Yeah, correct. I need the product. Delays, I've got the product, massive issues, contract charges. So yeah, fair play.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:09

Yeah, so that was interesting, that was quite a funny moment. And then probably the biggest achievement that we did, which was setting up what you call a camp band system on Terminal 5. But so a camp band system is we had a small warehouse, loads and loads of trays of specific types of products that we predefined with the client, and they basically came in with empty trays throughout the day, and we give them a full tray.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:34

Brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:35

So no packaging, it's like, and they would drop it at the work phase. So it's like the technology from the motor trade for building cars, they have it all delivered there at their doorstep. So the warehouse on site at Ford would have loads and loads of trolleys and they'd put all their product out for the jobs, and then they'd all go there and they get dumped at the job site. So construction tried to do that on Terminal 5. So it was all we haven't got the space, we just want it just in time technology. So, and we did that with Langer Ork. Oh wow, who was my biggest customer. So it would come over electronically to us, yeah. We'd pre-make sure it's all ready for them, they'd turn up off the owners. It's lovely.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:16

So, what literally you'd you'd get the order as such, yeah, then you'd package it. Yeah. In these trays, in these special trays. No, because you couldn't cardboard, yeah. Cardboard had to go. And I think I've worked on airports, yeah, and I know how difficult it is to get like we we did it, we had a Heathrow ourselves, and we know exactly how hard it is to get good through site. It's not straightforward, is it? Airside, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:42

But that's why we weren't airside, we were off site, and we were like, stones thrown from the site, and they just drive around, pick it up. That's it. You know, it sounds balmy, but it worked for them.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:53

And it yeah, the airports have a set times as well. So airside, you can only go airside at certain hours, but if you're if you're delivering, so it's kind of like that. So there's loads of hoops you have to jump through to for airside. So on that, you've used obviously well it's a massive coup to get the project, get the contract, it was huge.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:11

It was huge, yeah. It's brilliant, big, big, big money. Brilliant, yeah. They instigated that their buying team were really on it, you know, on the ball, try something new, yeah. And then we just work with them, you know, from from day when we started working with them. They were so different to every other contractor.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:28

Yeah, that's a that's a that's a big fish as well. Oh, huge. Yeah, any any airline now or any airport is massive. Oh, massive, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:36

Massive, that's pretty it's nuts, mate. Jay, they come on to me and I said, Right, what we want to do, Tim, we think you, well we don't think, we know you're our best supplier in our supply chain, and we want you to do something for us. Yeah, so okay, what do you want us to do? We want to talk to you electronically, and we want you to answer that electronic message and send back an invoice. I said, Okay, so let's get let's get this credit. So we set up a product group, a product range. Yep. Your guys place the order on site electronically, it comes into our system, yeah, and we don't have to type it because it comes into our system, we convert it to our paperwork, yeah, comes out on a delivery note, the guys pack it, and then once it's shipped, you get an invoice. Is that what you want? Yeah, yeah, and leave it with me.

unknown 1:17:28

Christ.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:29

I come out of that meeting and I went, oh my god, how the fuck do we do that? So after a lot of thinking about it, we started the process with me and my IT man who was a genius, yeah, and we did it. And it cost us 250 grand. What? 250 grand. You imagine what that would cost you now. No, you can buy it now, yeah, yeah as a bit of software. That's why I'm not a businessman. Yeah. Because I didn't and I built it, and then a company took it, took it away. Well, developed it. I didn't I didn't argue it, but I actually built this thing, and sites could raise an order up to 10,000 pounds each per se. And these orders just come through, no typing. Oh man, it's painful, but what they did was they gave us so many more product groups that we didn't sell them before. Yeah, and I went, Oh, we don't buy that product. They said, Don't worry, we'll tell you who the spire is, we'll tell you what we're paying, you negotiate the difference. I went, great, and we just built this machine, we became the Tesco's of suppliers to so they supply the bulk of their materials from us. It's a game changer, yeah, it's absolute game changer. But that's what you gotta have. You've got to have the balls to go, yeah, I can do that. So, how did you meet they'd done a concrete frame in Ashford? We met them, they supplied a small amount of gear, and then I took it over, took the contract out as one of my local salesmen, and then took it over and just started doing loads of business, a little bit, nothing like we ended up doing. And then they said, We like you, and they must have thought, well, we need this. How about we get him to do it? He'd do it for nothing. And I did. I built it, done it for nothing, cracked. Technology cost me 250 grand. And you saw the bigger picture, right? Bigger picture, and then we were rolling that out with everyone. Electronic trading was the new buzzword, it was like it was like the the dot-com explosion.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:29

Yeah, yeah. And you and what year was that? Do you roughly know? I think it was late 90s. I mean, yeah, it was unheard of then though.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:36

Yeah, late 90s, early 2000s. It was like, my god, this is crazy. This is absolutely crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:42

Yeah, and that's how most people operate now, especially in that kind of network, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:46

Yeah, but it's standard. No, these people that are trading today, some of your young clients won't have known it any different. No, you know, no, no, it's the norm. We used to get a fax order. I meant when it went to email, it was like, wow, yeah, my god, I can copy and paste it onto a on a onto a delivery note, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:04

It's crazy how how how quick it's moved.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:07

Technology now in business makes a massive difference. Yeah, and what it does, it enables you to go home on time.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:15

It does. Yes, it does, but the problem is with technology today, it never switches off. No, constantly. And that's the difference is that it's constant, it's uh it's a 24, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:27

Communication is everything, and people that don't come back to you in this day and age deserve not to have a job.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:34

Yeah, I agree, because it ain't difficult. Well, customer care again, isn't it? Customer care, yeah. Customer care is a I think that'd be the first thing I will probably take over. And wipe it out, yeah, totally wipe it out.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:43

And I think that's a good thing because that will segue on to our next podcast about my online business, FFX, because that was a massive problem that we had in our customer service.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:52

Customer service is massive, and I'd give anyone this advice now is look at your business and be honest with it. Are you giving enough back to the client? Because at the end of the day, the client pays the bills, and the customer care, it's like it's equivalent to staying in a hotel.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:10

It's like an overhead, though.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:11

People treat customer care like an overhead or a customer service. I lost sight of it. The bigger I got, it was hard to maintain in my eyes, you know, especially I was always chasing a number, so it was irrelevant. I just needed that number, you know, especially when I sold, yeah, it was a number, number, number, number, number, and I needed that number. And you lose sight of because you get pulled from pillar to post and you're not actually doing what you're really good at. Yeah, and I think that can be my advice to anyone in business is keep sight on what you're good at, and then that business will survive because you bring the right people in, what they're good at, yeah, and you maintain that customer service. People like that focus on the customer. Agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:52

Just remember he's paying the bills, as you say.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:54

Exactly that.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:54

And but there's an also But then that customer you're dealing with, he doesn't own the business, and he will go somewhere else. Of course you then that's how you grow. You grow when people when they move deal with, move around, yeah. Oh mate, how are you doing? I want you to do it for me now.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:10

I agree, and it's the I've sat in many meetings where they demand that you're there, yeah. You want to be there anyway, but you they want you there because no one can sell it like you when you're so invested, and I always believe that no one will anyone you'll ever employ will only be 70% of you, and I genuinely believe that. I believe because I I was so invested in what I believed, yeah, you know, and I was so like driven to go in, you know. I believe this, this is something that I believe. I wasn't trying to sell them something that I didn't believe, I actually believed that this will work, yeah, and and then the client sees that and sees your passion, this is what again are saying But not every business owner is like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:51

No, but that passion is what they love.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:55

Well, they there's a there's that side of it as well when people say follow your passion first, the money will come. Because if you're so passionate about it and you've got a business mind, yeah, both of them two together, and you can deliver because if you're one without the other.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:08

If you're passionate, you're just and you don't deliver, you're a lunatic, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:10

Well, yeah, and there's plenty of them around that will will invest all their time and money into something because they're so passionate about it, yeah, but they don't see any more than that. They just they're so focused, they don't get their head up. Yeah, but yeah, I know I I appreciate that. No, yeah. So just quickly, you sell.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:27

I'm basically I left in 2009. 2009, and there's a little bit in the middle there where I uh helped a friend out with a roofing company, yeah. So it was doing nothing, 50 grand a year, and I got it to a million in the first year. And what's the roofing company called? Uh Southern and Country Roofing. Okay, they still go, yeah, still going. Brilliant. And I sold it to the the guy. There's a there's a bit of a story in the middle that we don't really want to talk about, but I ended up taking over the business and I sold it to the guy who now runs that business. Brilliant. Yeah, and he's he's doing well. Good. And then we come on to the FFX, which was a monster that nearly killed me. Yeah, well that's another story. Yeah. So hope you've enjoyed that. I have really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:09

Just wanted to take the time to say a massive thank you to Tim for coming on and sharing his stories and experiences. I hope you all agree that part one of two was truly inspiring. So make sure you join me for part two where we go even further into Tim's career. And a huge thank you to you, the listeners. Without you, this wouldn't be possible. Please share under Dr. Owner, and I'll see you in part two. Thank you.