One Last Dance, i'm going all in !! Underdog To Owner

Tim shares his story, lessons, and experiences so far — and it’s genuinely inspiring.
This is the Two-part episode, so make sure you listen last dance  into Tim’s career, the moves he made, and what he’s learned along the way.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

So yeah, we was talking about your last experiences and that seems like a million miles away, right? I mean years long. How many Tim?

SPEAKER_00 0:08

So 2016 was the start of the adventure. And uh it was tough. Yeah, I bet. And I mean that this this last one started in 16, finished in 2021.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

Yep, and this last one five-year deal.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

So last one was called the company's called FFX.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Yep. And what does that stand for?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Folkestone Fixings. Oh nice and simple, mate. Yeah, nice and simple. We converted the name. That's the name we bought when we bought the company. We changed it to FFX. So let's start at the beginning. So finished with VJ, stayed on there till 2009. Had a bit of a gap, done a bit of other stuff in between, roofing business, and then my partner's get getting itchy feet, and he wants to do a new deal. And we searched the market through brokers, and we didn't find anything that we fancied. No. Didn't didn't do much work on it. We had loads of stuff come to us, and there was nothing in the float of the boat, but this did. This came along, and on the outside, if you looked at the outside of the book, you go, Yes, this is this is my gag. Yeah. Because it's very similar to VJ, supplying the construction market again with building materials. It was uh similar but a lot different in other ways because it was also an online business, right? And it was a builder's merchants business, so like a shop situation. And from the start, when we was doing all our due diligence, the information coming back for a company that deals with online, you'd think they'd be slick, it was not, it was clunky. So, you know, my my partner looked at it as an opportunity. I'm going, this lot are backwards beyond belief. What is going on here? Something didn't add up. Done we ran the numbers and we we did get it for a steal, but there was a reason for that, and it needed an awful lot of work. Did it I I was not convinced at all it was the right thing to do, and in the early days I was right, it was a mess, an absolute mess.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

And on that, it when you do your due diligence, yeah, did you not did you not find it when you started pulling it apart?

SPEAKER_00 2:22

We found loads. Yeah, we found loads, yeah. Always excuses and reasons. Was there? And I and I you should trust your gut. Look, at the end of the day, I I'd done well with it, but at the beginning I I was very, this is not right, this is not right. Basic numbers don't make sense. So I don't know why we took the pump, but the VC were happy, the venture capitalists was happy, they're a big one from London.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

So just explain was happy for people that don't know what a ventureless capitalist is.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Okay, so but private equity, venture capitalists, virtually the same thing. So they're the bankers, yeah, like the like what we the kids would understand as bankers, and their investment, they're looking for investments to invest all their money they've got. So they go out to high net worths, the venture capitalists, high net worths, where they're gonna invest their money and get a good return, put it all in a pot, and then they go out and buy a company or a company. So they're an investment company.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

So they're an investment company, and like the normal Joe Bloggs who are listening. Yeah, how do you go and get how do you where's the contacts in that?

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Where do you find them? Yeah, that's the tough. That is a tough bit, and that's what you need. Contacts, contacts are everything. So my my my first experience with venture capitalists was at VJ, but they were coming to me. Okay, so Bartley's bank, the door opens. Bartley's with the venture capitalists, and they put the two guys in on their team, and they're the ones that come into the business, not the bank. The bank don't touch it. So, with this crowd, they were more than happy with the the information that came out in due diligence once all the questions were answered. However, they didn't know the market, and I did, and I'm I'm said to my partner, I don't like it, I don't want to do it. Right. He convinced me it was the right thing to do. So the VCs were happy, he was happy, I wasn't over enamoured with it all, but okay, yeah, went for it. Our investment was nowhere near the same investment as the venture capitalists, but they take 51%.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

Oh, okay. So I think they're well on on sale, they take 51% of the sale or yearly?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

They take 51% of the shares. Okay. So on sale, yeah, the idea is to get a massive multiple. So the increase was huge. So we bought the company, it was doing 18 million turnover. I don't think I can say really, but we paid for it. No. Because I'll probably get done. Yeah, yeah, somewhere along the line. Yeah, yeah. So we paid not a lot of money for it. No, it was in the millions, yeah, and we started getting stuck in, and I've never experienced such a different workforce to my previous VJ technology. It was chalk and cheese. A hundred times worse. Right. These people just I'm going. I know we're in Folkestone, I know we can only go one way for our talent. We can't go to France. No, we're on the seaside. Yeah, yeah. And you're not going to Dover. We we were the talent pool was restricted, yeah. But you know, it was a really, really, really strange experience.

SPEAKER_03 5:43

Uh yeah, I can kind of it's the same pro for us as a business in Maystone, yeah, is that we found a lot, it was really hard because of the location to capture anyone that's really talented. And that's that's an art now. I think that's a really for me. I I found it a struggle in the business, so I could relate to that. Yeah, and yeah, spot on, but the talent was there.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Well, yeah, for finding it. Yeah, we had to find it, and I think they'd just been not looked after maybe as well as they should have done, or they was just doing their own thing, and it wasn't an aggressive build. So, you know, we bought and buy and build, buy and build, we want to increase the sales, and I've got all this motivation inside of me, and they tried to sap it out of me. No one wanted uh help, it was almost like we were the enemy. We've just bought your company, you know. I want to sit down and talk to you, I want to understand, and it was such so closed. How did you turn that turn that views on it? I think it was the fact they finally they were so insular down there, and you know, I've done this since 1991, and I know what I'm doing, yeah. And it was trying to gain their confidence and for to get them to open up, and once they did that, things started to change. And and how how long did that take? God, it was torture, it had to be eight months. Really? And I and I've never I was struggling every day going, this is crazy. Yeah, you know, this is nuts.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

But you had them in the business, they were good people over the overall.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Most of them, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's always dead wood. Yeah, yeah, most of them were good, and uh those early days were painful, yeah, and then there was a problem financially in the business. Why was that we uncovered? I'd just say it was a problem we uncovered, yeah, and it caused issues with the previous owners, right? Okay, you know, and it it was resolved in the end, and yeah, we we we were struggling, you know. So we're moving from the place we were in in Folkestone to this huge warehouse in Lim. I think it was 80,000 square feet, really high old building that was being refurbed, so we were draining money on that job, building it, getting it finished, because we took it over when it was half complete.

SPEAKER_04 7:59

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Oh man, that that you know, the cash flow. Oh you know, let's talk about cash flow. Yeah, that is key key. It is key. And we thought, probably naive, bear in mind I've dealt with VCs, just thought, yeah, they'd be okay, then it's more money. They know what we're doing, and they know we're building, and we know we're developing this new site, and it's cost more than we anticipated, and we didn't do the numbers for that. We're working off their budget, and maybe we didn't quantify it well enough. So we went to them for I think it was a million quid, we needed a million quid, which ain't big numbers for them. No, not for them, but they need to see the value, right? No, and they said no. Why? Because we've bought this with from with our investors in what they call an ETF. And what's that to me? But basically what it means is that that it's a tax-efficient vehicle to buy into a company, okay, but they can't fund it, they can't add extra funds to it. Right. Yeah, and their excuse was we can't do it. Okay. So we had a bit of money from our previous sale, so we did it.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

So we lent the company money, and all of a sudden we bought a business with a big big venture capitalist, they're not gonna give us any money, we've got nowhere to go. And they still take the 51%? Yeah, yeah. Oh, wait. It was a loan. Yeah, it wasn't a share drag back, it was a loan. So we loaned it to the business at an interest rate. Yeah, and it was like, okay, this is getting painful now.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

It's quite scary.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yeah, and at the point of us settling with the previous owners, uh, and there seemed to be this massive impetus of moving on. We had a payment from them and we moved on and then started to click, cash started coming in, and with an online business, you should be cash rich because you know we had 60-day accounts of our suppliers, we're getting paid immediately. So that was obviously like a click and collect.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Click we did and then you look, you order it, you get it. Deliver.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

So there were three elements to the business, yeah? Yes. So we had they had before we bought them, uh the builders merchants, and they just started online. So they got online set up, so website, yeah, purchase from the website, receive it next day, potentially, yeah. Poor website, needed a lot of work, very clunky. Yeah, the interface with the accounts package was poor. There was lots and lots of problems. But the guy running that and the team he had running it were very, very technical and amazing people, and you you've met these people, they can't communicate very well. No, but my god, what they can do intelligent. It's unbelievable, yeah, unbelievable. And and and they're probably like us, they are ADHD, yeah, on the spectrum. Spectrum, yeah. And but they they could just do it, they can, yeah. It's like Rain Man, they can't.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

No, I used to ask questions and it'd be like, and then by the end of it, it gone over me, and I'd be like, just do it.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

But what what I could never get around is well, why is it broken? You know, why has it stopped communicating? What's going on? The website's down, it's sort of it's chaos. Yeah, so so the online business was totally new to me, the builder's merchant side was totally new to me. So they're the two elements, and then we had the third element, which is my old world, which is direct sales, so they didn't have direct sales, so we brought that to the party. The shop down in Folkestone, which was the builder's material yard. The shop was fantastic, the range was huge, loads and loads of powers, everything you can think of. So they had a really good footfall. Yeah, but I thought their builder's merchant offering was pretty poor, like big big bag stuff, you know, timber, concrete, bag, sand, cement, the basics, basically. All the basic stuff I didn't think their offering was very good, okay, but you know, we we worked on it. So here we are. Finally got a bit of traction with the staff, and then looked at the where's all our money gonna come from? Where are we gonna get to? And it was the online facility. So we had some cracking people in purchasing on the online to get the right buy-in from the suppliers, the right deals, it's all about deals online, and foolishly not being involved in online before. I thought, okay, look, why don't we knock free delivery on the head? But off, sorry, offer free delivery, but set a number where they got they gotta spend 50 quid to get free delivery. And that is common now, yeah. Very commonly, but not then peasant, prime. Well, no, they'd set up they'd said we're free on anything, any value.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

So if you bought something for two quid, yes, free. Brilliant. So that go in the post, get lost, cost more than that as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Get lost to the customer services, they're bringing customer services, ain't turned up. Of course it hasn't.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Yeah, you know. So the man hours just for that one item. Man, it was horrendous.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

But I insisted on implementing it because we needed to increase margin. The margins are really tight online. It's like catching the falling knife. Is it? You go on Google now, go Google shopping, you look at all the prices. Well, Amazon have killed it in the well, Amazon are a different animal, yeah, because they they make big money, as you know, volume, volume, volume. But they they can be cute, they're really clever, aren't they? But we weren't that clever. No, you know, we're in the construction supply sector, and they go to Google Shop, and if you ain't the cheapest, you ain't having it. But but I'm going, I've come from a service sector where you only get business if you deliver and you deliver next day. You know, we'll take the order and online and it'll get there in five days, you know. It just when it gets there, and you don't care, you've got that money, but you've only locked you only had a customer once because he's not like that's it, but in the old world, it had to be there next day, a m. So we're in this sector, and I've said, right, no, we're gonna have a minimum order value to get free carriage. Yeah, yeah, sales dropped, and the and the the the previous the people that were already in the business, you could see them going, yeah. I told you, yeah, I told you. I said, Okay, alright, we've got to get over this problem because we can't sustain these small orders and shipping them out next for next day delivery.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

It's it's a bit like that, isn't it? It's like you're a busy fall, yeah. Right? Because so you've got to figure that out. Yeah. So this is what you're trying to do now, it's figure that out, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Figure out how you get around it, and there were some really clever guys in the purchasing team. So now we're talking, you know, we're a year and a half in now, and we're actually communicating, and we started getting this role going, and it started to work. So this device, we we changed the website, it was really working well, looked better, felt better. Always problems on websites, there's always stuff. I was looking at weekends going, right, scroll through, right, change that Monday.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

And it was always changes because of the amount of items you had as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

We had over a hundred thousand lines, hundred thousand lines to manage. It was a strength and a weakness at the same time, and the movement of the stock, you know, we got up to five thousand parcels a night going out the door. Wow, and that's when we were flying, absolutely flying. It was mental, 24-hour shift, it was crazy. But let's talk about how we get there. And uh, we got we got the the buying teams together, the IT teams together, all the heads of department, and we worked it out, and worked out what we need to do, and this is this is our market, and this is where we stand now, and and and we got powerful in that sector, and we were a go-to, we can't become a go-to, and that's all you're all you want to do. With online, you want to be a go-to. Agree. So, we achieved that during that what five-year period. It was a five-year deal for me. Oh, was it?

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Is that what you were you is that the beginning of my mind said that?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Yeah, my wife had a gun at me because I was three months late. But did she really? She she said to me five years. Yeah, so we had some really good people in there, some really different jobs to what I was used to. So the IT side is very, very different. We had different types of procurement, yeah, and we had a customer services team that were getting hammered in the early days. It was like, oh my god, this is soul destroying. Yeah, Kate, my wife, done the social media, created a really good social media offering, and it was a wild five years that nearly broke me.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

I I I I I remember being on a golf course with you, not far from here actually, and uh I remember having that conversation with you. Well, you just sold. Yeah, and you and you before that you was like, yeah, this is taking its toll on me.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

And you could see it. So yeah. I I came home one night and I said, Okay, I can't, I can't do this anymore. No, I literally can't do this. It's long days, really unusual hours and weekends just to keep on top of this. It was an animal, yeah, and it's needed so much attention.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

Do you do you think do you think obviously you employed other people in the in the business? Yeah, sometimes you can get that wrong, can't you? Yeah, yeah, it's easy and and and that can be added added stress to that as well. A lot of the time, and I was about to say, people think like hiring is is easy, especially at that level, you know, including myself, I've I've I've hired and got it wrong quite a few times. I find it fascinating with a hiring system in this country where people will sit in front of you and say how good they are, yeah, and you've got to believe them. You know, you could do your due diligence on them to a certain extent, but they tend to cover that up quite well, yeah. And then they come in and it's like you owe them. And and I find that fascinating. Find that fascinating how they sit there at the other side of the table going, well, I'm this and I'm that and I'm this good, yeah, and I'm that, and I do this for you, and I want da-da-da. Yeah, I kind of look at it a different bit different now, personally. I put look at it and maybe ask the questions of what you what do you what do you give to the company and then write it down. Yeah, and then it's something that I'm gonna take into business. Write it down and then go to them in three months. Yeah. Okay, but you said you were gonna do this, this, this, and this, and this. I don't see you doing this, and I don't see you doing that. What's your you know, what's your opinion on this? Um because I I I think we just go, well, okay, we know they're not doing it. Yeah, we're too far in, right? Because it we don't want to go backwards all the time. But but but instead of getting rid of them at there in the three-month period, we take them on, we sometimes deal with their issues, yeah, because we don't want the problems that come with getting rid of them. Yeah, and that's what really isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Yeah, and I I I do you know what I I'm with you, I don't know what the answer is because we recruit finding staff, especially in sales. So we we were creating the direct sales team, and you got me and Fraser, and that was about it at the time, and then we had to build this team, and it's tough, really tough. You get some callkers, and then we got to a point where we had about nine direct salesmen, and we couldn't get any more. It's like everyone that comes here, we give them an opportunity, give them a chance. They've been in the trade before. What have they been doing here? I don't know what they've been doing, they don't know anything. So when we was building the direct sales team at that point where we couldn't get the staff for love no money, no, we decided to change our top type of person that we wanted. So we changed it as someone who had that attitude that they're gonna they're gonna do it regardless, and they are a winner. So they didn't have to know anything about the product. So we changed so we we took we didn't have to you didn't have to be in our sector, and we took on a trainer, full-time trainer, and we created a training program. Brilliant, and we trained that's a great idea. We trained them so hard for three months, they must have been thinking, Oh my god. Where'd you get the training from? This is horrendous. He used to work for me, so he came from I Spitfixins, then he went to Fisher, so yeah, John Freeman, really good guy. Did he stay with you for the journey? Yeah, he stayed with us. So we took him on, I think, a couple of years in. Yeah, yeah, and he stayed, he was brilliant, he was our technical manager as well. So on the direct sales side, it's very technical. You're going to big construction sites, and there's engineers quoting certain numbers for performance, and and you have to sometimes prove it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

So he could do all the calculations and about to say, and how do you value obviously, how do you value the sales team? So, what I mean by that is you know, what do you base it on? Turnover.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

It's all turnover. Turnover. So poor, basic reason back in the day it was really poor, but uh a basic salary and it's all commission and it's all tiered. You you you're just chasing it. You you you've got to have that attitude as a salesman. You need to get to the top tier because that's where all the money is. Yeah. And it's all about volume of sales, but the margin's got to be there.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

They if they didn't have the margin, then then Well it's it's a bit easier with your concept because your margin really shouldn't differ, right? Because you if you've got a product, yeah, you're selling an I don't know, a screw. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That screw's worth one P. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So and then you mark it up, whatever you mark it up, it's worth whatever. Right? You can't really differ from that. You shouldn't, should you? Because you're it's not like the construction world where for instance we get a job for I don't know, a million pounds. Yeah. Yeah, our sales team have marked it up. Yeah. Then we go and install it. Yeah. Doesn't really configure. The labour's now get turning around going we want day rate because they're because it doesn't it doesn't fit configure. Yeah. So then all that starts to be thrown into the mix, and by the time you get to the end, it's diluted. Yeah, massively diluted. And then I can't go back to my sales team going, why don't you fucking see that? Yeah. We do. Or they miss heads at the tender stage. Yeah. Or they don't, you know, there's loads and loads of things. We didn't have that. No.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Once we sold it, the margins constant. Because the sales price varied across different companies. Of course. I get that. It's all about volume.

SPEAKER_03 22:56

Okay, so we diverted a little bit, but I just wanted to I just wanted to go back to the sales.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

So sales. We had a good team in. We did have a really good team, and they worked their nuts off, and that they loved it, and the commission was great, and yeah, brilliant. That's that's that's good. And Fraser, he was my right-hand man, he he knows absolutely everything about fixing fasteners. And I say to him, many times we've heard this before, knowledge is power, and it is true. And you know knowledge, you can talk to anyone on the construction site, and if you've got that knowledge, they know. The client will know you've got the knowledge, and they can open up and they can talk to you. If you turn up like a dick and you don't even know what you're talking about, it's embarrassing, isn't it? You ain't gonna last two seconds. No, and I've said to Fraser many a time when you you know unfortunately, let's go back to FFX, they went. I left in 2021. Yeah. So in um Is that when it was? 2021 since 2021. So when um we decided we're ready to sell, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:02

Um COVID sorry, before you go there, you were turning over 18 million when you bought it. 18 million when you bought it. What was you turning over when we said the end?

SPEAKER_00 24:12

123.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

123 million in five years.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Wow, five years, three months, as my cake would turn.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

123 million, yeah. And what was your uh EBDA or net, as their people call it?

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Um let's talk in round numbers, EBD DA was over five million, so you're working massive turnover, yeah, but small margins, small margins, yeah. And that's because the online got to about 80 million online. That's incredible. I know, it's huge.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

But the yeah, I know the margins are small, but there's not a lot where it can go wrong, really. Apart from apart from no, but what I mean by that is only supplying issues, you know, you can't get the product maybe or distribution when you're getting paid straight away. That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Yeah, it's about controlling that margin, yeah, you know, and and in and I can't believe they went bust in 2024. I can't believe that. How? Okay, so let's let's talk about how can you not maintain make money? You have a lot of stock, yeah. And if that stock is not selling, yeah, we'd have stock sitting there, you have to monitor the stock profile all the time to understand why it's not selling. The price is wrong, it's set up wrong. But why would you change it?

SPEAKER_03 25:33

So why would so you sold it, right? In 21. Right. You sold it, yeah. Yeah, they run it. Yeah, you stayed in the business for a period of time, didn't you? No, but what I want to know is why did the business model change, or is that part of your story?

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Part of the last bit. So um, we got geared up to sell, and we had our first um customer that was interested in buying a company. Yeah, and we've done three months' worth of due diligence. They're buying us, they'd say we've provided all the information, and uh it's got the green light. Literally, as we got the green light, the next day COVID hit. So they said, So we said, what do you want to do here? Do you want to pause? This is all a bit manic at the moment. We're having to shut down the warehouse and work out a plan of what we're gonna do. And they said, No, no, we still want to carry on. So we shut down the whole business. We'd done in within seven days we were back up and running with special walkways and PPE and sprays. You adapted straight away. Oh man, it was carnage, and that's when we turned into a 24-hour operation because we couldn't have people coming into contact with each other. It was carnage absolute logistical nightmare, and no one understood what was going on, none of us did. Um and then the government started giving out loads of money to people to stay at home, all the builders, and then all of a sudden our sales started to increase. Where we used to sell quite a lot to the homeowner and the DIY. All of a sudden, they got all this money from the government, and then they they they started to spend it with us. It went absolutely spastic. But that cut that buyer pulled out, so we'd done three months worth of work, but it pulled out. Then we had another one, we're still in COVID, came along, same process. You've got all the information now. Well, there you go, you've got everything together, you can have it tomorrow. Um, and for some reason I can't remember why, but that fell over because we were still in Covid.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

And then the third attempt, yeah, was the SAL, which completed in 2021. So coming up to that, that was a venture capitalist, was it? Yeah, H2. Um they very keen, got right to the end. Those last few weeks for me were like topsy turvy. Yeah, but I'm having meetings with their top brass, and the new guy that's come in to to run the business at FFX decided to tell me what we were gonna be doing. So rather than having a chat about it, it was like all these different things we were gonna be doing, and they had been in the industry before, and it didn't make any sense. So we had a bit of a ding-dong. Yeah, and uh they decided that uh their actual words were on deal day, you're gonna go because you're not the future.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Yeah, so that word stuck with me and resonated with me. I bet and Kate Blesser, my wife, didn't know I was told I'd already agreed with them on staying for two years, but I hadn't told her, I couldn't tell her because we've had five years of hell. I don't know why she thought I'd be leaving on. So you hid that, you you you hid that, you hid that wow, I didn't tell her. Oh fucking hell. And then when I told her what had happened, she basically broke down and thought I was a genius because we've had this massive prowl, but actually, it wasn't genius, it was just like crazy that they turned around and said that they should have bit their tongue and said, right, okay, let's let's this guy knows what he's doing, for God's sake. Let's not tell him what we're gonna be doing, let's work together and work out a plan. So, long story short, I went on deal date, you saw I signed it, gone. I had to go and clear my desk. I left it a week and went in and cleared my desk, and it was emotional, really emotional. Yeah, I've been there, you know, and clearing your desk and the embarrassment of that for starters for 10. And then trying to say you goodbyes, it didn't it was terrible, you know. They were all lovely, and we had some food and it was great. But yeah, I broke down. Yeah, I bet you did. It was really tough. Five years it was, and those people in my team, uh, direct sales team were like unbelievable people, they're just so up for it. Yeah, and then compared to other parts of the business, yeah. You so you look, yeah, where did it go wrong?

SPEAKER_03 30:21

Well, yeah, that I think that's the you know the question is where did it go wrong?

SPEAKER_00 30:26

So it went wrong by basically the the new CEO overspending, so they decided to uh so so sorry mate, sorry, who brought the CEO in? Huh?

SPEAKER_03 30:38

I did. Yeah, that's what I'm asking. I know the question, I just wanted everyone to understand.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

My my old partner Patrick um w wanted to retire. So I interviewed for a replacement for Patrick. So I was like the MD running the ship shop the ship. Patrick was very much could speak to banks, see yeah, the VCs. He was he was facing the VC weight, I'm facing customer weight. You know, he got on really well with him. He's he's a very eloquent, lovely man. Um he um basically said he wanted to retire. So we had to employ someone, and then he'd done a bit of a U-turn saying he's not gonna leave until we've sold, which made sense. He he was very analytical and he created all the data and did all the packs. Yeah. Um so I employed this CEO, so we've now got two of them.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

So we got a CEO, chairman, so we had to change him to chairman from CEO. So we took on this guy, best bloke I've ever interviewed in my life, to be honest. Really good, asked all the right questions, superb. Came in, why did he learn? He he understood, he learnt the company, how he operated, and seemed to be all going well until the purchaser came along. And this only really happened, this row was A about what he said we're gonna be doing, but B about how much he was currently getting paid. What he was gonna take out of it. No. So I was on remuneration committee. I wasn't on it. Why don't I want to be on that? My partner's on it. Well, turned out that when the docs came out for the last the last week, it changed it. They changed their salaries. Yeah, so I saw what they were earning. Wow, yeah, and that was a kick in the teeth. So that was one part of the round, the other part of the round was them telling me what we are and aren't gonna do, and I said it's not gonna work. So we parted waves, and um and that one word, remember, I'm not the future. Well, 2024, they went belly up. They wanna get all their own doing. So spent too much in the warehouse, tried to automate the warehouse completely, go from we had 250 staff across the company, and uh they wanted to go to they wanted to lose a hundred. Wow, that's a lot. It didn't work. So they they they had to reinforce the floor in one side of the whole warehouse, then do the other side, make it set up all the conveyors, yeah. It didn't work.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

And I think anyone that's listening to this is any investor, any any of you big boys out there, you gotta trust the people that have grown it, yeah, and believe in them. Yeah, and and like like you did when you bought it, you bought it, yeah, you got eight months of bringing everyone together, yeah, not letting go, bringing everyone together, and building it from 18 million to 123 million by bringing everyone together and not just solely concentrating on numbers, numbers, numbers. They're important, yeah, but the problem is with a lot of these private equity businesses, anyone that comes in, the business dilutes, changes. People like to believe people at ground level, and I call them that, and it's no it's no disrespect to them, but at ground level and not part of a board, they need to know they're fighting for something that they believe in. And that's what I would say to anyone that's watching this that's going to invest into anything, or sell, you know, the smaller, this the underdogs like we're talking about, is make sure you do sell to the right company that also values their stuff, values the product.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

That is very difficult. It's very difficult, very difficult because it's alright what they what they say at the outset, but what they decide to do in the end, no dispect, venture capitalists, no dispect to you guys, no, they're sharks, yeah. At the end of the day, what are they there for? They're there to make money. Of course they are, they're not there to create friendships, but they understand my my VC on the FX, uh guy called James Livingston for Foresight. Big shout out to them, they were fantastic, yeah, apart from that little money issue. But James, board meeting once a month, come down, clever guy, really clever. Yeah, he knew what we were doing. We it was a dream for him, I think, but at the end of the day, we knew what we were doing, and it's not in their interest to mess it up. No, message challenges. You don't want to, you want to oversee it, make sure it's all running fine. Chuck your two penny thing in the board meeting, they're very intelligent people, they've got a different view on things, yeah, and it that really worked. Really well. I I totally agree, but when you mess with the team, then it will come crashing down, doesn't it? It doesn't go well, yeah. Or you let in the the next the the VCs that bought us, yeah, they let the guy hang himself. Yeah, now that they suffered with that and they lost all that money, yeah. You know, because they let him do what he wanted to do. They they uh they bought me and they were getting lip service from me. I wasn't there because I'd gone.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

And you ain't that guy, are you? No, no, you let anyone know that you're definitely not that guy to give anyone lip service.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

No, no way, yeah. Me neither. You know, if it's going wrong, let's talk about it, let's see what we can how can we fix it. But he went down a rabbit hole and had nowhere to go and just kept going and going, digging and digging. So they went that so they went it was bitter sweet for me when I I heard it went bust.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

Yeah, but I must be a little bit upsetting as well. It was really yeah, a bit of sweet.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Is the fact that that word I'm not the future, I knew it could bite him in the arse one day, and it that the way it was going on and I heard what was happening, it was they're cruel words, isn't it? Cruel words, but I was still upset, sad for the people there because you know they gave everything for that company, and when I sold it, they gave me 150% most of the people there to get it over the line. They didn't know what was going on. We was pushing, pushing, pushing.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

So 2024 it went.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Yeah, bang. Three years.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

And where's all these people gone?

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Yeah, that was terrible. We looked on LinkedIn, they were all over the place, yeah, just moving around like Fraser. We go we go back to Fraser, he he he got a massive knock there, you know. It was a big knock for him. That was his biggest role he'd ever had. He he was my sales director and he ended up working. No, he was my sales manager, and then he became the sales director. So he was on the board, he was on the board. Oh wow, you know, it was a big change of him. Yeah, and he went to university, he got his um masters. Nice, I may have got that wrong phrase, but yeah, masters is usually right. Yeah, you you got a serious qualification, which was two years worth of work, and then to get that and go, belly, I said, look, look, at the end of the day, you got it. Yeah, same for the future.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

I spoke to Fraser quite a few times, you used to pass him on to me.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Yeah, it was good, yeah. But when he went out to the market, this is what I was saying to him about how powerful he is, because we know how difficult it was to get a salesman, and we ended up getting our own trainer because we couldn't get him. You're the finished article, yeah. You've been there, you've been on the ground, sales director, done your university masters, and now look at you. And when you went for these job roles, we see sat down and spoke about the offer. I said, That's not good enough. No, no, and is that good enough for you? And you you were prepared to accept it. I wouldn't let him accept it. Right. And I said to him, This is what you need to do, because just put yourself back to where we were. We would gag for someone like you, we would pay over the odds for someone like you.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

And I just to pick up on that, my wife talks to me about that all the time. I'm uh self-value, yeah. You to you do too, be to be fair as well.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

Imposter syndrome, yeah, yeah. I don't suffer from that a lot, but sometimes I doubt myself, but we should never because we've done it, yeah, and we got that knowledge.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

Yeah, I think when you when you sit around a table with someone like yourself, you know, and we're we're we're we're friends as well, is that debatable. Yeah, that is debatable. I I have to lie acquaintances, acquaintances, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Um but it you realise your self-value. Yeah, when you drift out of the out of it for a period of time, you your mind becomes quite creative and you forget about your self-value yourself.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

It sounds like you at the moment, you know. You exactly come out, you've only got six months to go now. Yeah, yeah. You're non-competing, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

Back in it, back in it, uh, but you do sit there going, you know, you you worry about your I don't always I think I always have.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

But I think we spoke about this. As soon as you left there, you're just going, Oh my god, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. It's a beer day. Just settle down, just have a mum fast. No, no, no, I'm I've I've got all these ideas, and you were unbelievably full of it, weren't you?

SPEAKER_03 40:18

Yeah, and it must have been awful for to live with it because I was spiralling as well. I've worked since I was 15.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Yeah, but that's your yeah, your one, your ADHD.

SPEAKER_03 40:29

Yeah, whatever it is, inside me, it's bubbling, and like it will never stop bubbling. I know. Um, it's a weird concept. Yeah, people say to you all the time though, don't they? They're like, I bet you can't wait to like do nothing.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

I'm like, I remember the funniest one was when you said, what about this for an idea? I'm gonna I'm gonna set up a gardening company. And then you write a came with a cut of glass on that, and I said, Who cuts your glass? Came. Why? Because I've got a serious serious hay fee. Yeah, we didn't feel that one for you.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

I've had a few like that.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

But that that was your mentality, doesn't it? Just want to do something. Just work. You love that attitude.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

I love it. Do you know what? I wish everyone come in to me, because I always say this to all the staff that I've never ever interviewed, is that if you tell me you have that work ethic, yeah, that that drive, yeah, I'll work with you all day long. Yeah, and I will be persistent to make you better. Yeah, you'll try. And you'll make me better because we'll bounce off each other. Yeah. But they don't. There's nothing. They don't exist as much as the rest of the very.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

But isn't that what you want to see when you talk to someone and you go, right, okay, what's not working?

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

What's working? Agree. What's not working?

SPEAKER_03 41:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Okay, let's just tell me what's not working. Let's fix it.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

Let's fix it. I don't want a fouls on problems. But don't you want?

SPEAKER_00 41:48

You want them to come to you and say, Paul, got an idea. Yeah. This ain't working as well as I think it should. What about this?

SPEAKER_03 41:54

You go, I I I would name a handful of people that ever did that to me. And I and I'd say, like. But you you remember them. Yeah, yeah. Well, I I was again I think I don't know if we mentioned it earlier in the podcast, but I could put on my hand how many people I would take to my next journey. Does that make sense? Yeah. Like, there ain't a lot, you know. I wish there was, yeah, but there's more. There's some special people. Oh, some special, yeah, real special people. Um, and I think that's valuable uh to remember them and to remember because what I felt what I felt guilty about is when you do do the sale and you do do the uh you leave them behind. You're you l you leave them behind and they and they don't get what they probably deserve some of them. 100%, mate. Uh it's quite but I uh but I would say that they but what you remember, and I know you the same, you looked after them during that journey. I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

And I know you're leaving them, and you're leaving them with some money, but ultimately you've looked after them as well. And a lot of my team, you know, there's loads of them. I can't even mention them all. No, you know, and I'm I'm sorry, but I'm not mentioning these people personally, but and and um it's not because I don't want to, but there's too many. Too many of them.

SPEAKER_03 43:05

Yeah, you had a bit you as a big outfit. I mean 123 million is phenomenal. I know that that's phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

It's it's it was frightening.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

And and on that, throughout your journey, is there any is there people that you anyone that you sit there and go, thank you. Thank you for yeah, is that and who's that?

SPEAKER_00 43:25

That's Fraser. Thank you, Fraser, because man, that that boy, he he was looking after all these salesmen and it it's tough. Tough job. And he's he's next door to me, his office is next door, our doors are always open, you know, and I'm listening to everything, absolutely everything that's going on. So yeah, he he was phenomenal. And it but but you know, don't want to single him out. He was he was my main ally. Yeah, you know, there there wasn't a lot of people in that outside of my sector, my direct sales. I think they all quite. Like me, because I looked after them. Yeah. But outside of that, when I put my toe into the the online, the export and the the um building materials, they were different animals. I bet. And not a lot of them like me. No, I'm not surprised. I mean they're going, what are you doing? Yeah, come on, come on.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Yeah, I'm doing like this. I know the way you are. Yeah. And and yeah, you've got you you know.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

But then what are you doing? I said I'm the MD mate. Well, what are you doing asking us about what we're doing? I can imagine.

SPEAKER_03 44:35

Yeah, I I think like what I know is is that yeah, I could see that. But but I that's your strength as well. It's a strength, it's a massive yeah, I've got hundreds of.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

I don't need them to like me. Look, at the end of the day, I want them to, yeah. But I can't make them, yeah. And I'm all full on, I'm full of football, 150 miles an hour.

SPEAKER_03 44:54

And I and that's the that's what I love. I've I don't operate like you do, and you but probably don't operate like I do, but you're you know you're a lot more successful than I am. But what I would say in that is yeah, you have a you have a drive like I'd never seen before.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

And I thanks, granddad. I get that from my granddad who had the same drives because my mum, she's got it a bit. My dad, he worked for me, he didn't really want to do it himself. Yeah, um, but my granddad man, what a legend of a farmer. You know, everything he did was all new.

SPEAKER_03 45:26

Is that someone you look up to?

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Yeah, well, he was short, so I looked down to him. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. My granddad, I went down. I think we said in the first uh previous side, he went down to all the summer holidays. Yeah, he did, yeah. And he'd shout at me. I can hear what he's saying, he had a really broad, cornish accent. Yeah, didn't have a clue what he's saying. The tractor's going, and what he was saying to me when he was shouting at me, I was about ten years old, get off the trailer and open the gate. I couldn't hear him, but but he was phenomenal what he did. So I've got that curse, that that drive, which it drives people insane. Yeah, you you are I led by example. You do, yeah. So if I was in first, I'd be locking up last and I'd just make sure I'm there first thing. Yeah, I'm inch I'm saying hello to everyone in the morning. I'm there every day, and every day, and I'm there till the end. And FFX and VJ, both very similar, it ruined my social life. I didn't go to see Chelsea for five years. I know it's not a bad thing, it was a nice break. Um we were doing alright then, I think. And now, no, um, but yeah, I had no social life, no. Me and me and Kate, she put it up with me for five years.

SPEAKER_03 46:37

And that's not a balance, is it?

SPEAKER_00 46:38

No, I could I I've never been able to do that. You're all in. I and it's bad. The first one, VJ, was excitement, the second one was survival. Like how the hell do I turn this round? This is disgusting, place. It was horrible. And that those two were completely different, but I still managed to mess up, mess up my social life. Come home, probably be home about half seven, eight, have dinner, go to bed. It was a cycle up at four in the morning. There's no life to the work life balance. Yeah, that's true. You were doing alright with that, you know, until you need to roll your sleeves up. Yeah, and that's where I I if I could change, if you asked me what could I would I change? Go back into business tomorrow. If I went back into business tomorrow, it'd be that work-life balance to work out how I limit myself to before I kill myself. I agree.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

Because you know you know you you always think you're young, right? When you're in right, it's true though, isn't it? Yeah. And I I'm the same, you know, and you're getting in at city o'clock, you're not switching off. I used to have two phones and and they'd be pinging all the time. Uh I'd I'd spend no time with my kids because I'm my face is in the even when I'm eating, I'm I'm I'm emailing. Oh. I'm I'm getting I'm getting the CFO uh e emailing me at one o'clock in the mornings, uh, two o'clock in the mornings, and I'm answering them, some of them, you know, and it it becomes a like it becomes a drain, and then your focus isn't as like my focus become it become hard for me personally because survival. So yeah, it was just surviving, it was just getting through the days. And and and if every day was yeah, it was was getting worse. I think obviously uh there's a question probably I've got got for you is that if if um if this was a movie and the audience was watching it, yeah, what would they be screaming at you? Shut up, it's gone too long. That's perfect. To be fair, I would have probably fucking said the same. But no, it's true though. And last one, if you could give any advice to anyone that's taking the first step into business, yeah, or hesitant to do so, you know, so it's probably a two question. Yeah. Uh what would you one, what would you give? So if they're in if they're going into business, yeah, yeah, they've just about set up, yeah, or they're set up, they're going, what would you give their advice?

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Well, that's a very, very difficult question, and I'm not prepared for that at all. That's why I did it. However, blind, okay, let's think about me. Um, I I would have to be a hundred percent committed to it, so I'd have to look at my personal situation with girlfriend or wife or whatever I'm doing, and both be on the same page that we both know this is going to be all consuming, especially for the first year. Yeah, make sure that box is ticked, and the next box is cash. Work out the worst case scenario, always never flower it up, and banks typically these days are not very accommodating. Accommodating to lend money, um, so make sure you've got that cash to support your amazing idea that you believe in and know that you're gonna chuck everything at it, but never underestimate the cash because that could kill you, as in kill the business. Agree. So, first things first, make sure you're correct and right in your mind, and everyone around you is gonna be back in your and two, look after the cash. Look after the cash. I'll make sure you've got enough. Good advice, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:17

Yeah, I'd probably say the same. Yeah, there you go. That's that is probably the strongest advice in business. Yeah, and then when you're in, you're in. You're in. Yeah, exactly. No, I appreciate it. Yeah, and listen, thanks for well, I really appreciate it. No, you speak. I have. I know, oh, just for our viewers out there, this this man has had about 20 pisses today. I've been quite fortunate to be fair, he's only had one. We have had to do it over two days, yeah, and we've had to do this in two days, hence why I'm in a shirt and because I've got a meeting afterwards. But um, look, it's been fun, mate. It has been fun, and I'd just like to say, not only is Tim a very successful businessman, but he's a very, very, very good friend of mine, and um, I'm honoured to interview you. I really appreciate it, mate.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

Mate, Paul, I've really, really enjoyed it. Thank you very much for letting me sit here. And uh let's hope people do listen to it and understand uh that the the what we're trying to put here is really good information for people that wanna be successful, yeah. And it is a struggle out there, so let's hope they listen, let's hope they um pay attention, pay attention, that's all yeah. Good thanks, cheers Tim. Cheers, pal. Nice one, man. Thank you. Nice one, thank you, thank you. Right, on that number, we're gonna have a piss.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Just wanted to take time, say a massive thank you to Tim. Truly inspiring, and some real life lessons, and to you, the listeners. Without you, this wouldn't be possible. So please, please follow and share under Doctor Owner. Thank you.