Episode 22: From Resurrection to Revelation: When Hope Becomes Confidence

Two disciples walked with Jesus for hours without recognizing him. Their hearts burned as he spoke, but their eyes remained closed until he broke bread with them. What's the difference between hoping you're saved and knowing you're forgiven? Sometimes the most life-changing encounters happen when we least expect them.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Build, a podcast from Danville First Baptist Church. Build is where Sunday's message becomes Monday's conversation. Each episode we dig deeper into what God is teaching us, talk about how it shows up in real life, and help you keep building your faith beyond the weekend. Let's get started. Welcome to Build, the podcast of FBC Danville, where we aim to build on Sunday's sermon, but ultimately build on our relationship with Christ. And for all you um tens to twenties of listeners out there, I don't know how many there are, um, you may have thought that we've quit or we've forgotten, but we haven't. There's just been some things, you know, things happening. And uh, but we're still we're we're still here and and we're back now. Um so had a lot going on. Yesterday was, or yeah, yes, what is today? Today's now Tuesday. Two days ago was Easter, and we it was it was a wonderful service. Uh Dusty was preaching because part of the reason why we were down is Daniel is a little banged up, but he's on the mend. Um but Dusty's been filling in and doing a great job. But we were in Luke 24. Uh and kind of just we really kind of went through the whole big chunk of it. Uh do we I think we hit most of it. Yeah, we hit it off Luke 24.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

We well, we missed the first few verses.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Yeah, yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Well, I picked those up, but yeah, you did. That's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

We had it. It just was broken.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

That was one of those really cool moments. And like as I as I tell you this, this in no way, shape, or form to anybody out there, is is not I'm not saying that I don't prepare things.

SPEAKER_04 1:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

But I've I'm I I don't know. This I really try to be sensitive to what the spirit's telling me to do. And this was another one of those times, and this happens all the time for Daniel and I, but this time it was Dusty and I, where like kind of on the spur of the moment, as I'm just walking through the sanctuary Sunday morning, making sure everything's I thought I need to read this scripture to start the service. And I I did just without any talking or anything like that. And then it was exactly like Dusty almost picked up right where I quit reading, and we did not talk about it at all. So if you listen to the spirit, sometimes he does things. Um, it's pretty cool. But yeah, I'll let Dusty kind of talk about what he what he uh was preaching about.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Yeah, you know, I I think that was cool, and it really set the the stage because being an Easter Sunday, I actually was starting after the resurrection. You know, usually on Easter Sunday, you're gonna start with the resurrection. I'm like, man, you know, obviously I want to emphasize the resurrection. That's what we're celebrating every Sunday, but especially on Easter. But I was like, man, I really want to get to the story of the road to Emmaus and Jesus revealing himself to the guys on the road to Emmaus. And so I'm like, I'm gonna skip the part everyone else is talking about. We're gonna move right, and then we're gonna come back and clean it up a little bit on the backside. So, you know, my ears parked up when, you know, right off the bat, Josh starts reading the part that I'm not. And I'm like, awesome, okay. Well, they needed to hear that. Um, but yeah, it you know, the sermon was titled From Resurrection to Revelation. And, you know, we just really talked about how, you know, as the as these two disciples are walking on the road to Emmaus, and Jesus comes along and they don't recognize him, they're kept from recognizing him. And um he begins to explain scripture to them. And and you know, some things that we'll probably get more into later, you know, one of my it's just a profound thing was these guys have been with Jesus for a long time, and they tell Jesus, like, we're sad because we hoped that he was the one that was going to redeem us. Yeah, and now he's been uh been murdered and he's in the tomb, and then the the women came and said he's not there, and that's confusing. We don't know what to think, but we know we hoped this, and Jesus explains the scriptures, and then when they eat, he prays, their eyes are opened, and he's gone. And they said, Man, did our hearts not burn within us? Did we not hear the truth and know there's something to it? But it didn't make sense until the author of truth was revealed. And uh and then we, you know, ultimately that led them to go back from where they had hoped to now they went back and told the others and said, We don't hope anymore. We know Jesus is alive, uh, just like the women said, and then we finished with the beginning of Luke 9, uh, or Luke 24, 9 through 12, where the women had told the disciples before they went walking on the road to Emmaus, the women had already told them Jesus is alive. And it says that there were two types of people in the room. There were those who said, That don't make sense, and then there were those who were like Peter, who got up, ran to the tomb, and saw for themselves, and they were amazed. And so that was just kind of uh, you know, that's the Cliff Notes version of, you know, we'll dig into some of these points, but kind of the Cliff Notes version of where we were at. And uh man, for me as I prepared, even as a Christian, like whether you're whether you're lost, whether you're saved, whether you're saved and doing really well, I think these principles are true. Our hearts get stirred up sometimes. And sometimes it don't make sense until the author of truth reveals to us, but we need to be sensitive to the to the drawing of the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Yeah. Robot Daniel, do you have any thoughts?

SPEAKER_04 6:15

We've lost you. You're mute.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Uh we're trying to work, we're trying to do technical difficulties through work through these tech I don't know what I'm saying, but if you notice Daniel's on an iPad, that's his face on there, because he's at his house currently uh recuperating.

SPEAKER_04 6:40

It's not it's not using off.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

All right. It it it kicked off my my stuff there for a second. Anyway, I talked so long. Two things, uh two things on on just that opening there. One, uh Dwight Eisenhower, the great general and president of the United States, he always said um that it was really, really important to plan and have a good plan so that when you deviated from the plan, you knew what you were doing. Um and and I feel like that that has become uh kind of second center for Johnson. Like we know what we're doing, we have our plan, um, things are worked out, but we really want to be sensitive to the spirit's prompting. And and when we vary from the plan, we don't even really have to say that we're varying from the plan. We know we're varying from the plan because we have the plan. So when we're when we're not following the plan, we're saying, okay, this is the spirit plan. This is something the spirit has for us, and that's uh usually when the best things happen. So um, I appreciate Josh's uh desire uh and sensitivity to the spirit in those moments, and I think it adds it always adds some of the sweetest and best moments to our services uh when those things are present. So appreciate that. And then yeah, just the storm was was was great. And um of him personally already, I think it was a very laser-focused, dusty message. Um and I mean that in in all the positive ways that I could mean that. Um it was very uh it had a lot of biblical depth, uh it had very a lot of insight, and then it was very evangelistically driven, which we've we've said numerous times as dusty's gifting. Um so you know, it was it did all those things, it did all those things, and then want to give a major shout out uh for all of all of you that do not know this, but I was I was injured uh on Friday and was in the hospital and was unable uh to preach the Easter Sunday sermon uh because I was in the hospital. And so Dusty, you know, found out that he was preaching, I think Friday night. Dusty, officially. Friday afternoon? Well, that that was like Saturday morning, I mean.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

That was the week before. I had a little more notice for Easter.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Well, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

The week before I officially found out Saturday.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

I want to give you a shout out for preaching that message on the day and a half notice. Yes. Um I do I I haven't got to say that because we haven't had build. Um haven't been doing build before. That's one of the reasons why we didn't is because uh I decided to be in the hospital instead. Um so anyway, just appreciate you appreciate you jumping in, filling in, and always being ready. Love it to give a defense for the hope that is in you, um, as scripture tells us to do. So um, but yeah, it was great. It was great. And the the I think the thing that probably sticks out to me uh the most for Mr. was a bunch of things. Um, but the idea of conviction being a gift, I think there's a is a beautiful way to say that. Um I think that you made a good did a good job of saying how that starts salvation, but that continues to be a gift. That is a continued gift uh of sanctification, a continued uh reminder of our down payment that the Holy Spirit is on our salvation. The Holy Spirit draws and convicts us to the Lord. Um and anybody that will let you do whatever you want to do uh at your own expense and at the expense of others doesn't absolutely love you. Um God loves us perfectly, and that's why he convicts us because our sin actually causes harm to us and to others around us. Uh and it's not what's best for us, and God knows that he's never trying to keep us from what's best, he's always trying to uh he's always trying to maximize two things at the same time his glory and our good. Uh and his glory is our good, and our good is his glory. And we're just thankful for that. So confession being a gift was beautiful. And then, of course, you know, you talk about going from hope to confidence, and I talk about this fairly often. You're talking about hope in the in the worldly sense of pushing it upon a star. Um where and we try to delineate that. Uh, you use the English word confidence, assurance is another word, which is great. Um, because the biblical idea of hope is those things. It is, it is, it is a it is a certain uh definite expectation of a certain outcome. Um, we hope in Jesus. We don't hope like we you know hope we you know get some nice thing to happen to us. We hope as if we know this is going to happen, we just haven't seen it yet. We were expecting it. So I feel like you did a great job of of preaching that truth as well, Dustin. And we had a baptism on Easter Sunday, yeah, which is boom, even extra cherry on top, best thing ever. Loved it. Um so it was a good, it was a good day. Even though I was watching via the intro introwbs, uh, it was a great Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Well, it's always it's always better if our if our leader is there with us, but you know, the main thing right now is getting you getting you healed up. But you know, you mentioned the baptism, and you know, that was a that was a fun thing. You know, uh you know, we had we had a lady surrender her life to Jesus on Wednesday of prayer service. And uh man, it was so sweet because the very things I was talking about the other day, about Peter running to the tomb, like it was that way, man. Wednesday night, like I'll be honest, when when she started coming to the front, like there wasn't even an official altar call. It was like, hey, you know, the altar's open to pray. You know, this is the time every week where we, you know, you you come down and pray, someone will come pray with you, we'll help you out. And she means she comes, I won't say full speed, but you know, on a truck.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

And and my fingers going like, hey, one thing, dude, is I was getting play-by-play updates from your life.

unknown 12:39

Ms.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Low just came down to starting dusty. Oh my gosh, I think she's getting saved. Yeah, oh my gosh, she's got saved. Oh my gosh, she wants to get baptized.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Yeah, it was like, you know, I got the old wave, and then I was like, she's like, I want to be baptized. And so we talked about salvation, and then so when do you want to be baptized? You know, I said, Daniel's already said, like, man, April 12th, we're gonna have the baptistry pool full. But if you want to get baptized on Easter, let's do it. And she said, Will it take away from Easter? I was like, Oh no, no, no, absolutely not. It is going to highlight, you know, and that was the thing, even in the in the baptism service, you know, I I used some of the verses that we used in prayer service from Colossians chapter two, and it just, I love the way it delineates right there. It just highlights that the same power that that awakens us to new life is the same power that rose Jesus from the grave. And I thought, what better picture for Easter Sunday than to say that the same, you know, we're in awe that a man came back from the dead, but that's what salvation is. That yeah, the old man dies and something new rises in his place, and it's the same power. And uh, it just God God ordained it. Man, it was it was it was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

You know, that's one of the it that was an example of uh sticky have that slow, steady and that that Jesus does things in his time. Yeah. And not to be don't get discouraged because you like he he's always working. Because without going into too much detail, because this person has no given no has privacy.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

It's uh but this person has been being prayed for for a solid year, I know by my wife. Like last year we had a Sunday fell on 316, it was John 316, emphasis, and then you we were supposed to pray for our one and invite that one, and you know, every every day at 316 at each we were praying for that person, and this was that person that she was praying for. And she didn't come. But she kept asking questions because every time she was invited, she would have a question. And you know, that's been a year of of prayer and and and Jesus just steadily pricking at her heart. And you know, but then it also shows you when it happens, it happens fast.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Yeah, because once the Lord moves, He moves.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Yeah, like and and it it's just such a like you want to run. I I I've seen that, I've felt that so many times when when when you know that you're saved, when like I've received salvation, and I can't wait to tell somebody that's that's what that's what you do. It's like that's when you I that's when I know it's for real.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yeah, yeah. Well, every every person in the Bible who has a genuine Jesus encounter and surrenders to that calling, it's always followed by proclamation and service. It's always and you know, and I think the great debate about baptism, you know, is because it's true. Like when you get saved, you want people to know and what's the the fastest most relevant way that you do that is through baptism. And so, you know, people want to debate whether it's necessity or whether it's just the right thing. And and honestly, like I I think every Christian should be baptized, and I think that they should follow. If at all, like you should do that if it's feasible because it is a way of sharing the gospel for someone who's brand new to Jesus and can't put it into words, you put it into action until you learn the words to use.

SPEAKER_04 16:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

And and, you know, so I just I was so it was exciting. It was just a great thing. Okay, okay. You know, Daniel, you talked about conviction as a gift, and and you know, I'm thinking back through my time as a Christian, I don't always value it like a gift because sometimes it's hard. And there have been times that I've hidden from it and I've tried to suppress it uh instead of leaning into it. And I just think, you know, as Christians, we need to learn to hear God's voice. Um, we need to learn to not hide from conviction. I've been in a place as a believer where I've been in rebellion against Jesus and become hard-hearted. And you know, I share this part of my testimony sometimes with our kids. Like, God dealt with me the entire time that that was going on, but I hardened myself to it. I hardened myself to it. And I can literally remember as an older teenage male going to the altar and just saying, God, like I'm so I know what I'm doing's wrong, but I can't even feel bad about it. Like I can't even be remorseful. I am, but when I feel like I need to do something about it, something inside of me shuts down. And I think it's because I had I had grieved the Holy Spirit so many times through this process. And I can remember a tear falling from my eye and just being relieved that I was human again, that I could feel again, and that God could you know, a tear led to many tears, and now I'm super emotional. Sometimes I wish I could turn it off a little bit, but I really don't because I've been there where I couldn't. I heard God's voice, but I didn't feel like I could respond to it because physically something inside was my heart was hard. I mean, that's just all you can really say. And so, you know, if you're in that place where you feel God's conviction, my my challenge to you is to answer it because being away from it is way worse than just saying, God, I I'm not who you called me to be and I want to do better, and then striving to do better.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yeah. You know, uh something that I thought about, Daniel kind of hit on it that but you talked about that these guys, they had their hope and and they they hope for things and that's I sometimes the the more I think that I um learn the more I get mad at the English English language because it just hamstrings us to to confusion sometimes because we use that word hope. Like Daniel said, like we're wishing upon a star. Like I I hope that the it doesn't rain tomorrow, and I hope that you know whatever the thing is. And that's not the type of hope. That was that was the hope that they were they had, but that's not the hope that we have now on this side of the resurrection and and the hope that they had after that. They still had a hope, but it's it's that that's there's gotta be a better word for it. But it is a hope. We have that. It's a it's a confidence. That's what that's but I get so mad when that the we you miss have used misused so many words and watered them down per when it comes to pertaining to the gospel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Well, even as I preached the sermon, like it got difficult a couple times because I was like, I'm used to wording things, you know, like we have, you know, we have this hope, this assurance. But then I just said like these guys had hope and it was bad. And now I'm saying, like, you can have hope in Jesus. But I think Hebrews 11, one, I mean, really hits it on the head. And he says, now faith is the certainty of things hoped for, the certainty, the assurance of things hoped for, and a proof of things not yet seen. And that's going from, you know, I when you do individual witnessing, you hear a lot of people, you say, Hey man, you know, if you were to die the moment we we walked up and started talking to you, know where you spend eternity, and you hear a lot of, well, you know, I I hope I'd I hope I'd make it to heaven. I think I've done enough. I think I've been a good enough person. I I hope I would. Well, that's what these guys had. That's the wish upon a star. That's the I I it could happen, but it may not happen, but it might happen. Versus, I have a hope for heaven, but it's not that I'm gonna make it. It's an assurance, it's a waiting, it's a confidence that like like it's something I haven't seen yet, but I know it's coming. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

And um yeah, that it's it's lost in translations. It is, 'cause I say it's it's that promise that we we we know we can stand on that promise because his promises always return.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

So you still with us over there?

SPEAKER_02 21:57

I was I was trying to look. I I I know of a uh There's a great quote about what Dusty was just talking about, and I was trying to pull it up real quick and I couldn't hadn't quite pulled it up just yet. Um I want to say it's a C.S. Lewis quote, but um, so you know it's gonna be good if it's C.S. Lewis quote. So um it may not be him, but I'll I I'll I'll try and pull it back. I can tell you the gist of it. The gist of it is um we we we when we're hurt by life and things like that, we we think that it's better to protect ourselves and to not uh feel pain. Um but the only thing worse than feeling heartbreak is feeling nothing.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Um and that's what Dusty's talk about there. When you get that that heart of stone kind of season, like that's being numb to everything is actually way worse than feeling pain. Um and you know, that and because that's that's kind of what grief is, you know, and loss and those types of things, and and feeling the pain is the the what is lost, you know, to feel nothing, that's way worse. You know, it's it's like I think was it Shakespeare better to have love and loss than to never love at all? I mean that's it's true. That's true. It's better to feel uh pain than it is to feel nothing.

SPEAKER_04 23:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

And so um and that's it's the universal truth, regardless of of context. I I I think so. Um a little off the subject just to hair, but um, it goes with Dusty's testimony he was talking about there though.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Yep. I I want to, if you don't mind, want to kind of go back a week because we missed we missed a couple, but but there were so many things from the Sunday before that I I was sitting there thinking, like, ooh, that's good. I want to talk about that some more. That's good, I want to talk about that some more. And you may have to help me remember the the entirety of things or more specific but get more specific of because aside from what I was just thinking about. But um like before you were when Dusty was preaching, was talking about um, being fully surrendered. If that's fair, if that if I remembered that correctly, was that the what you had talked about. So you said something along there like some some of you have tried on Jesus, but you've never really put him on. And it was really it's it's so cool again how the spirit just weaves into so many conversations, into things to hear what he's bringing something to your attention because you don't just hear it from one thing, you hear it everywhere you go. That's what I feel like. And I just heard it talked about. Uh said some of you uh have invited Jesus into your house. And that they they used this story that they were on a mission trip in Africa and were invited into these people's house, like they were brought in as their guests. But this there, they their house was one room. So when you were in their house, you occupied their entire house. For us, if I invite you to say you can stay with me, that's fine. I've got you a room. I'm gonna put you in that room, and that's gonna be your space. The rest of this is actually still mine. Um and depending on how close we are, you might have access to other parts of it, but more than likely I'm gonna give you this bedroom and access to a bathroom. Those feel free to go in and out of those as you wish. And that's so often what we do with Jesus. People invite him in as a guest, but they don't make him the Lord of their house. They don't give him full access. And and I thought that was worth kind of going back and talking about that um being being fully submitted and making him the Lord of your life, what that really looks like.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Yeah, that's good. You know, that uh you know, two weeks ago the the message was you know, words matter. I was finishing up the series of words matter, and and it was um speak the gospel. And um you know, so so one thing when we're gonna talk about speaking the gospel, one, we have to know what the gospel is. And so that's really where I was trying to spend time is that I think that we have um I think the modern American church, without being condemning, without being, you know, I love the church. People know me know. Like I'm a I'm a church guy, I love church. Um, but without being condemning, I think the modern Americ American church is full of really three people three types of people. You have lost people who come to church every week, but they're still lost. I think we're full of of uh soft, weak-minded Christians who have to a point invited Jesus uh into their life, but has not surrendered fully their life to Jesus. And that's kind of like the the um the four soils thing that you know that Jesus taught in the Bible parable, because it's like I I go back and forth trying to figure out whether they're saved or not saved in each of the soils. And then I think you have Christians who are solid who are living it out and struggling because we're still human and we still don't have it grasped, but we have a desire to let Jesus be the Lord. And so the part you're talking about is I was really just saying, like, look, I I think we're called to not just invite Jesus in, but to surrender. Yeah, you know, you can invite uh you know other other people groups in, but like when you go to war, like there's no it's not a mix, it's not like oh like we are here to win. Right. Jesus has conquered death on the grave, and he's conquered dusty. Right. And until I can surrender myself to his lordship, I don't really know what it's like to be protected by him. I don't really know what it's like to to live in in hope of something bigger than me. And so, you know, I did say, you know, like I think there's a lot of people that, you know, your example I think is is spot on. And to me, I think about going into a designer store as someone who's who's never been really rich, and I I might try on the Oakley's and a nice thing, and I might look at myself in the mirror in the dressing room and snap a selfie, and and then I'm gonna take it off and put it back on the rack, and you know, five years later I may come back and do it again, you know. Um but the reality is I don't own it. Right. And I think there's a lot of people who who come to church and they're they're putting it on and they're snapping the selfie and they're they're wearing their gold chain with a cross on it, and they're quoting the Bible verse every once in a while, and they're saying, Oh yeah, I'm a Christian. But there's never been a time in their life that they said, My life isn't about me. Even my salvation is about me. Jesus saved me because I don't want to go to hell. I want to go to heaven. Right, right. Even salvation, and so we have to move to a place where salvation is about Jesus, and sanctification isn't so that I'm better. Sanctification is so that I can better proclaim the word to others. And so um that that was kind of the the the crux. I didn't have enough time, you know, I didn't flesh it all out quite the way I would have liked to. Uh, I was told that it was I was supposed to have a sermonette. I went a little bit longer uh on that one than I did. Uh you know, I I often quote my my former pastor Tim Hobbs, who you know, he's he would always say, like, hey, if you want me to preach for for uh five minutes, give me about two weeks. If you want me to preach for you know 20 minutes, give me a couple hours. If you want me to preach for an hour, give me five minutes. Uh and and so that was I blame Danny.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

I'll take it. I'll take it, bro. For uh for a day and a half's uh for a day and a half's notice. I thought it was a fantastic term. Uh and you know, my my brain goes to uh almost always initially goes to sports metaphors. And and the way I would I would illustrate this is it would be like you know, you put on you put on your team's jersey uh and you go through warm-ups with your with your team and you walk around and maybe take some pictures of the fans with that jersey on. But when the game starts, you know, you flip, you you you start playing for the other team, or you start trying to score baskets on the other team's basket, or you, you know, instead of tackling, you know, the offense, you join the offense and you're blocking or whatever. Like it's it's like wearing the jersey of the other team, uh, uh, of a team and then playing for the other team. And if somebody were to do that, there would only be one description of that. People would look at that and go, that's foolish.

SPEAKER_04 30:50

Yeah.

unknown 30:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

And the exact same thing is true with us when we either genuinely have on the Jesus jersey and and dabble in the world, or uh disingenuously have on you know Team Jesus jersey, but we're really not playing for Team Jesus. And it's just it's just foolish. It's not, it's not, you're not fooling anybody. Uh you're certainly not fooling God. You're certainly not doing any good in your life or anyone's life around you. Um, you're causing disintegration with your soul and your body because you're you're acting one way, but you're believing another, um, which causes a separation of who uh of who you are. Like it just it's just foolish. Yeah. And and it doesn't make any sense. And I'm thankful for for God convict me whenever I'm guilty of doing of doing that. Uh and and and you know, as a as a pastor, you just you just have this deep-seated worry that you have teams full of people that don't realize that they just have the jersey on, but they're actually not on the team. Um, and it just breaks your heart. You know, the the the the most dangerous place to be is to not be saved but be convinced that you are. Um, and that that scares me. Uh it bothers me deep to my core. Yeah, that someone would be a church attender um and and do a lot of the church things and for all intents and purposes, from a moral standpoint, be a pretty good person.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Um, from a worldly standpoint, you know, from a power standpoint, but being a pretty good person is not the standard.

SPEAKER_04 32:36

No.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Uh because as we've said numerous times on here and from the pulpit, anything that's allowed into heaven is will exist for eternity. And that's why the standard is perfection.

unknown 32:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Because the new heaven and the new earth is not going to have sin present regardless, period. End of sins. And so we're incapable of that. We have to pass through the blood of Christ to have that righteousness uh placed upon us. Uh, and so when when you are going through sanctification, um, and we've said this on here numerous times too, but we'll just keep saying it because we I need to hear it, you need to hear everybody to hear it. Uh sanctification is not the process of, in my opinion, it's not the process of of becoming uh more perfect. It's not the process of because what happens is if we think sanctification is growing in righteousness, yeah, um, full righteousness, then what we end up doing is pretending that we're righteous. And that's not and that's not what it is. Sanctification is is is learning the utter depths and hopelessness of who you are in your sinful nature, were it not for Christ.

SPEAKER_04 33:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

That that given the opportunity, your your sinful nature will choose sin every single time. And the only reason that you ever choose good is because the Spirit of God is working in it for you. Uh it's not you. And the more you yield to that, uh, the more it happens in your life, and the more good heaven you bring into your life and to those around you, and it just becomes a positive, positive feedback loop, and that's what we want in our life. You know, your will be done, God, on earth as it is in heaven. Yep. That's right. We we want to bring heaven to earth while we're here, and then we want to be uh in the new creation, which is where heaven and earth meet. Um, and you know, heaven's not floating around on a cloud, man. It's a new perfect creation, it's a new perfect creation that is life to the fullest it can possibly be, and bring it on.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Yeah. You I the thing that changed things for me, um, and like living a life and like and even serving, like actively serving in ministry, but it when things really like clicked was you know, how the Bible does. You can hear one day you hear something you've heard a million times and it just hits different. And when Jesus that particular day, when I'm reading or hearing you know, Jesus saying, many of you will come and and say, Lord, Lord, and I'll say, I never knew you. And then like, but wait, we did all of these things in your name. Like I get out of my sight. I do not know you. I mean, that really made me throw the brakes on and self-evaluate what am I doing? Not that I can do enough, but have I done the thing, which is fully surrender to to not be told that he doesn't know me. Like I that that that strikes struck fear in a way that holy fear. Holy fear, exactly. And if like if you hear that, and it even now it's it's uncomfortable. Yeah, and it's sad because that's going to happen.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

You know, Kelly gave a great devotion a few weeks back, probably a month or so back in uh in FCA, and uh she she did a great job of the analogy, but I I'd heard this illustration before, um one kind of a similar way, but she did a great job of it. And it she talked about how, you know, the think of a celebrity or an athlete or somebody that you know, you know, and I could go to a few Jordan being one, but uh or like you know, or Nolan Ryan, you know what I mean? Like I can tell like nobody's had more no hitters, one hitters, two hitters, or three hitters. Nobody's got more strikeouts. The the the second uh person in second place is about 1200 strikeouts behind him. There's there's nobody greater in the game of baseball in my mind than Nolan Ryan. Of course, him being a Texan more notes. Um and the fact that I got to see him pitch whenever I was younger, you know, is just puts it over the top for me as far as you know, childhood memories and just college and all those types of things. But I know a ton of stuff about him. I know where he where he grew up, I know uh stories about him and his wife. Like I know a lot of stuff about him. I've watched documentaries and all those types of things. But if somebody walked up to Nolan Ryan and said, Do you know Daniel Morris? He'd be like, Who?

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Because I know about him. Yeah, I don't know him. Yeah, and and that analogy I think is is is about as close as we can get with our language of describing churchgoer and someone who has salvation in Jesus, yeah, who's been saved by Jesus. It's it's one thing to know about Jesus, it's another thing to know Jesus. Um, and and the danger of knowledge is is that it can just make your heart your heart harder and can make you puffed up with pride. Yeah, you know, knowledge puffed up. And so while I do think there's obviously tons of value in Bible study um and and Sunday school and and all those types of things and discussion and learning more, because when you love someone, the more you learn about them, the more you love them. So so that so the opposite of that is true too. You know, when you truly love Jesus, the more you learn about him, the more you the more you love him. Same way with your wife, you know, it's like that. Um just because you can give Bible answers about God doesn't mean that you know him. And if you don't know him, he doesn't know you. And so it's not about having the right answer, it's about having the right heart. And the heart is a heart of repentance uh and the heart of submission, which I believe are the same thing. Um, and uh a heart that knows that there's one hope, and that hope is the one true God who will allow, will not allow sin into his perfect creation that is to come in eternity. And because that standard is so high, and because he loves us so much, he made sure that there was a way for us to meet that standard that is not of ourselves, it is of him, it is of Christ and Christ alone, it is his glory through his grace alone, uh, through his gift of faith alone, that that is the one hope that we have, that God actually loves us and is actually capable of forgiving us and giving us the gift of eternal life. And when you let that truth settle into your soul as reality, when you believe that is another way to say that, it changes everything. Yeah, it changes everything, it changes everything about how you see everything. Uh, and and there's just no other way around that.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Yeah, I think you just inspired my next youth sermon, you know, like yeah, as you talked about your your knowledge of of Noah and Ryan, but the reality is is with that knowledge, and if you showed up at his house once a week for the next 20 years, that would make you a stalker. Right, like that wouldn't make you still weird. Yeah, you don't have a relationship. You have a fascination. I can take all your stats. And I think there's a lot of people out there who are Jesus stalkers. Hey, weirdo. You know, they know a lot about him. They show up at his house once a week, but they have no relationship, and it's just weird.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

And like all Ottoman said is their fans, not forward.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Yeah, yeah. I like to take things to the nth degree, so I kind of think this stalker thing is going to catch on.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Well, if something's true, to figure that out, you take it and you drive it off a cliff, right? You take it to the absolute extreme. If it holds water out there, then it's probably still doing as well as that when I put my arm up, my freaking righteous stitches are going back to the city. Nice gone. Nice man, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

You know, the other the other thing that I was you know thinking about there is you know, even when I was talking a while ago, like I come across really passionate about this area, and I preach hard about it, and I it comes up a lot because and and and I always worry about the perception. Well, that's all you talk about, Dusty. Why do you feel like you're better than you know? I I don't listen. I'm passionate about it because I've been there. I've been in church because I was supposed to. I've been in church because my parents expected it. I was in church because it was the right thing to do on Sundays and Wednesdays. But it I wasn't allowing it to affect my life, and I hate that wasted time. And that's why you see a zeal from me in this area, because I can preach hard about that because I understand it. I've been there, I've lied to myself and said, Hey, you and God are good. Yeah, you go to church, you know. I mean, you know, you're you've memorized more verses than a lot of people in your church. You are good until God revealed to me that listen, Dusty, quit taking pride in what you know or pride in the fact you come to church. How about you take some pride in actually having a relationship with me and deepening that walk and actually coming into alignment with my will and my word? And so, yeah, you know, I don't ever want that to come off from a place of haughtiness or a place of pride. Right. I preach passionately about it because I know the hopelessness of being there, yeah, doing the right things, knowing the right words to say, but having no real connection.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

Playing the role, but having no power.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Exactly. And I hate that about myself, which in turn makes me hate that for others who are lying to that. You know, I I want them to avoid the mistakes I made. And so uh I guess I've never really thought so much about how it comes across until I just was saying it again right here. And I'm like, dude, I sound I sound prideful and like, oh, you know, these people don't, they're just playing like, well, people play church. How do I know? Because I've done it. You know, it's possible, and and it's an awful place to be. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:55

Yeah, that's miserable.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

You can even be you can even serve.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

You can be involved serving and when you're when you're serving as a means of justification, it is the most miserable place in the world to exist.

unknown 43:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

Justifying myself through the amount of service. I've done that before. I've talked to you guys about that before. You know, the whole the old adage, if you're put on trial for being a for following Jesus, would there be enough evidence to convict you? That lit a that lit a fire under me, but it was a self-righteous fire. Right. It was a fire of I will prove to the world and everybody that I love Jesus and follow Jesus by what I do, by the amount of work that I do. Um and I sustained that for uh five years about.

SPEAKER_04 43:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

I was doing everything you could possibly think of in our church.

SPEAKER_04 43:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

Um, and I was doing it from a self righteous standpoint really deep down. It took me a while to realize that. Um when when really we've talked about this before. If I were put on trial for being a Jesus follower, the evidence that should be there is, well, you know, I did something to Daniel one time and he forgave me. Or, you know, Daniel messed up one time. Uh, but man, he was he was quick to realize I'm gonna take ownership of that and come back and say, Man, I was I was wrong in that. I hope you'd forgive me, you know. Or uh, you know, there was a time that I was in need, um, and nobody knew about it, but but you know, Daniel was able to, he was very generous and was able to, you know, help with this or help with that. Like that's the actual things.

SPEAKER_04 44:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

The the things that you can't self-justify with. Because that is not in our natural nature to live and be that way uh with people over a lifetime. It is not. And so it's not look at my works that I it's not look at my worldly works that I have done. It is look at my spirit-driven works that have been done through me, knowing that God is the one who is responsible uh for those things and and doing those types of things. And so um that there is there is work to put on the resume, but it's it's spirit-driven work that is not from us.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

Um, it's not it's not grit your teeth, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, work that you have done in your own power. There's no power in that, there's misery in that. But when you're working from the spirits, uh working in and through you, and in your gifting that God has given you, there's endless supply of power in that. And it is not exhausting, yeah, spiritually speaking, yeah, to do that work from that place. He is the bread of life. You will you will have what you need.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I think I think we could even we can even sometimes get so caught up in serving that we we end up serving to avoid real spirituality. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 45:58

Like let's go there. Can we go there for a second? Can I go? Do it, bro.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

I've set the table for you. You clean it up.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Let me be a sanctuary jerk board. Okay, let's go there.

SPEAKER_04 46:10

Do it.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

I mean, no, you you're you're so right, you know, and I and I've I've been there, done that. You know, I'm here, I'm in the building, I'm doing the things, but I'm really deep down doing that to avoid the hard work of having a relationship with God, with, with, with God the Father through Jesus Christ the Son, and therefore with my fellow people.

SPEAKER_04 46:34

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

And everything relationally in my life is superficial.

SPEAKER_04 46:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

But man, it looks like I'm tearing up the patch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Dude, I'm here every week.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

I'm there, I do it all, I'm at kids, I'm at this, I'm at that. But when the real spiritual work opportunities come up, buddy, you can find me uh uh running the opposite direction, or being busy doing the thing serving to go, hey, I'm I would be there doing that, but I'm serving. Yeah, I think it is one of my I I you know like a joke about it right then a second ago, but it it it that comes from a place of deep, deep, deep concern for the people that I pastor.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Where where I'm concerned for their heart, and not just concerned for their heart, but it but it it breaks my heart because I can see the good that they're missing in their life, it's right in front of them, right on the other side of just of vulnerability and submission to the Lord uh and and and to and to real relationships with his people. Um, that if we just stop being so busy serving and stop and and converse with the Lord in prayer and get quiet before the Lord and let him speak to us. But man, I'm telling you, there's nothing, I don't know if there's anything scarier to any of us than getting still, getting quiet, and giving the Lord space to just speak, yeah, and just being in that silence and solitude with him. We would rather be working our tail ends off for days than to spend minutes like that. Because it is a fearful and terrifying thing to fall before a holy God.

SPEAKER_04 48:21

It is, yes.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

But again, that's where salvation comes in, that's where the beauty comes in, that's where the grace comes in, that's where the trust comes in, that's where his word comes in. His word says that he is faithful to forgive any of us who confess our sin before him. He's faithful and just forgiveness of all unrighteousness. And so the confession uh of a need, the confession of a sin is an act of faith because in that confession, you're trusting that he will do what he says he will do, which is cover you with his grace and forgive you. And that's there's the relationship that builds from there. If if if you're if you're nothing but terrified of your dad, to the point that you won't ever actually share the things that matter with in your life with him, then you don't actually have a close relationship with God.

SPEAKER_04 49:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:16

And perfect love drives out fear. And and so it's it we're not motivated because we don't want daddy to be mad at us. We're motivated because we love him and he loves us and we want to honor and glorify him.

unknown 49:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

Um, and that's the proper, that's the proper, that's the proper access point from which all things uh grow out from. And and when you're in alignment there with that, you know, spirit working and things flow, and we all get in our own junk and get in our own business and get in our own laziness and we get sick and we get distracted, and we get all the things, all the things of the world can get can become a problem, and we can get we can get all get disaligned with that. And that's where to bring it back to Dusty's message, that's where conviction is a gift.

SPEAKER_04 50:02

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

When you have the Holy Spirit, God goes, Hey man, where are you going? What are you doing? What what are you thinking? Yeah, how's this good? How'd that work out for you? Don't you think it's better when you just do it my way? You know, it it's but the thing I learned about God is in in our personal personal relationships with him is he's not gonna scream and shout and throw a tantrum.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

Right. No.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

But as soon as you get still and quiet and humble, okay, Lord, I'm ready. That's when he goes. Now that we're here to have your attention. Yeah. You know what I mean? Um, and that's recently happened uh for me in my life in and in my ministry work. Um, some things that God has brought to my attention that I uh confessed and aligned with him and what he wanted things to be like in ministry, uh, not things that need to be shared, um, but in that in that realigning of those things, there's already been fruit that has come from it. And yeah, and and he in all of his wisdom and all of his glory uh made sure that I wasn't actually involved in any of the fruit at all. Uh just as a reminder of all I was waiting for was your heart to get right now, I'll actually make it happen. And I'm gonna make it happen with you, not even in the building, buddy. Um, which is just a beautiful reminder that, you know, like I've said at the beginning, like we prayed before we got on camera, like it is a privilege to be allowed to be part of what God is doing. He doesn't need me, he doesn't have to have me, but he wants me to be part. He wants any and all who want to be a part of his work to be part of it. And that is a great, great privilege to be able to do that. And and when when I remember that, then it makes all the difference in the world. Yeah. And when I make it when I make it about me, it it's not a great, it's not a great place to live from.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

Yeah, yeah. You know, you you you said when you're describing that that person that serves to avoid the more you talk about it, the s the sadder it is. It's really it's it's it's just it's honestly really sad because you describe a person that's allowing a fear of being convicted. And that fear is and they're they're just working their butt off and avoiding something so good. That that that that part like you don't have to be fearful when when you are truly in relationship. It's just like just like you that analogy of a dad. If you got a if your dad's really that good, you can bring anything to him. And he and number one, he's gonna say, I know. I know. Thank you, but thank you for talking to me.

SPEAKER_03 53:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

And and oh, you miss there's some people missing so much.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

So much. You know, I've tried as a father, I've tried to reiterate this to um to my to Presley and Landry as they were little, and I and I'm doing it now with trying to do with Jackson and Rowan, and I will with Merritt. Um that you can ask Presley this right now, and she will give you this answer. What could you ever do to make me stop loving you? She knows the answer to that. Nothing. Not a single form living thing. There's nothing that'll ever stop me from loving you.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

Um you can even say you don't love me. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 53:48

I don't I don't care. I'm gonna love you because you're mine. Right? And then, and then so there's two, there's two really languages we get uh to describe our language. It's it's it's father to child, and then it's the marriage relationship. And so you take that serving part and you put that into the marriage context, and that is what a lot of marriages try to do. A lot of men in marriage, especially, try to do. When when when you're called to the carpet by your wife on your lack of connection with her, what's the first thing every man starts doing? But look at all I do. Don't you understand what I do? Don't look hard at work. Look how look look what I do to provide for this family. Look at this thing, look what I do, look what I do, look what I do, look what I do. When all your wife really wants you to look do is sit down and go, come come sit with me. Come sit with me and say, um, hey, tell me about today.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

Hey, how can I pray for you?

SPEAKER_04 54:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Uh you know, what can I do to touch your heart?

SPEAKER_00 54:55

Or or even you're not gonna believe what happened today. Let me tell you about this thing.

SPEAKER_02 55:01

Yeah, be excited to do it, you know, and and and it's like most guys do that and go, I don't want to do that. So what? Do you love her? Then then do it. Most of the things you want her to do for you, she don't feel like doing either. So how about that?

SPEAKER_01 55:21

Well, I think I think in both of these situations, what you're doing by by working and being task-oriented is you are convincing yourself that you love well, but you're not convincing the object of your love that you love well. Yeah. And and that that falls short. And I think that's why um, you know, the divorce rate within the church is is basically the exact same as outside the church, but it's because we haven't ever learned to love Jesus well, and then we don't know how to love each other well or our spouses well.

SPEAKER_04 55:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

Yep. I have a caveat on that, not to not to be the jerk that corrects the the statistic, but that is true, just with a casual church member. But to the church member who's committed and serving uh and attends their church on a regular basis, the divorce rate is significantly lower for them than it is for the world. So when the when the world's in the church, yeah, the statistics are the same, but when the person's in the church and actually loving and serving Jesus, uh the divorce rate is about uh 12%, I believe, last time I look for someone who's committed in the church. So see, everything's better.

SPEAKER_01 56:33

Well, we hope those people that are faithfully committed are learning to love Jesus well and in turn will learn to love their spouse well.

SPEAKER_02 56:40

Uh the two go hand in hand.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

Yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_00 56:43

They do. Yeah, I'm so thankful for a uh a guy that blessed his heart, he has no idea how much I use him to uh to say, aren't you glad I'm not like that guy? Because this dude, when I first met him, the the chick that he was married to, he like would make you sick at how much he the words that he poured on her, just he was it was so stirpy sweet with his his love words and how all the things. And and and Kelly does desire to hear words of affirmation from me, and I'm terrible at it.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

Terrible at it, you know, and but in your justification, you say, well, but would you really want to be like that guy?

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Because that dude's marriage went went, you know, it didn't last because there was it's all it was all surface. It was all on the surface. And um, you know, I'm like, well, you know, I I could be like, aren't you glad that I'm not like I could do I could be like that about if you want me to, but I'm gonna, you know, so some Dustin Nickerson uh real marriage advice type stuff right there.

SPEAKER_02 58:04

Don't get a couple that you love, get a couple that you think.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

It's much stronger than love.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

It's much stronger than love. We're chasing around. Dust for niggas in marriage.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

Yes. It's funny. It's funny. Anyway. Well, we're we're we about got this this hour we hooked. Um, and we probably could go another one because we've I know we've got a lot to to talk. Daniel's probably got a lot to talk about because he's talking.

SPEAKER_01 58:40

Oh well that was that was the hard part about getting this back together. I was like, well, we're gonna have to deal with Daniel again.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

Yeah. Thanks, Doug. Feeling the love, bro.

SPEAKER_01 58:53

You know, it's uh it has been, you know, it's been it's been good. I've enjoyed uh the opportunity to uh step in and and fill those shoes the best that I can over the last few weeks, but we do miss you. And and uh you know, I was able to share with you know my Sunday school class. Uh you know, this is what I give you a hard time a lot, uh a lot, and that's never gonna change. I hope, unless you make me mad, then I'll be nice all the time because I don't really care much about you. But you know, I was able to share with my Sunday school like right after the accident. Like, let me tell you about your pastor. You know, your pastor's on the way to the hospital, on his way for major surgery, and he's talking to Josh on the phone saying, Hey, you know, this is a this is Friday, and like, well, you know, when's Dusty gonna be back? And what are we gonna do for church and how's this gonna work? And and like complete disregard for your own health or well-being, your thoughts, your care was for the flock that's been entrusted to you. And that's uh that's not lost on me. Um, you know, I I appreciate your dedication to the church. I appreciate your dedication first and foremost to Jesus, but you know, to making sure that you know, I've been telling you the whole time, like, hey, don't worry about it. We got it, we can get through this. We're you know, you just focus on getting well. That that's my heart. Um, but I'm also thankful that I have to tell you that and that I'm not worried about you thinking like, oh, well, it's uh you know, I got a couple weeks off. All right, I don't have to think about those guys. Uh so you know, thanks for for leading us well, um, training others to step in when uh, you know, when you're not here, you know, we we talk a lot about in coaching. I know you understand this as a form of coaching, you know. You coach, you hope in coaching that you can coach to the point where your players can play even if you're not there. And uh I think the same thing in in ministry, you want the church to function even when you can't be here. Um and I think you've you've let us well, and so we appreciate that. But we are ready to have you back. Yeah, you know, I'm not saying milk it, you know, anything like that, but uh but God is blessed, even even while you're recovering and even through uh the rambling of a half crazy man uh bringing the message the last couple weeks. So we love you.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:28

Appreciate that, bro. Love y'all too.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

Well, we'll wrap this thing up. I'm glad that you joined us for this episode of Build. If you've missed uh any previous episodes, you can go to fbcdan.com, find all the previous episodes and previous sermons so you can stay up to date on what's going on with there. That's also a wonderful place to find out the things that are taking place in and around our church and our community. And I urge you to go there, see how you can get involved. And if you're not local with us, uh find you a church that you can get involved with because serving is what it's all about. It's about submitting and then serving, and you just can't not do it if you're fully submitted. I'm just gonna leave you with that, and we will see you next week. Well, that's it for this week's episode of Build. Remember, what we build with our hands faith, but what we build on Christ lasts forever. Today's episode encourages you to share it and keep the conversation going. You can find past messages, upcoming events, and ways to connect at fdcdan.com. Let's keep building our faith one brick at a time. We'll see you next time.